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doublem23
05-05-2009, 03:44 PM
Inspired by some of the debates, let's take a look at what people are feeling. We'll do a new coach/member of Sox management everyday, and we'll start at the top.

Simple yes or no question, do you approve of the job KW is doing as GM of the White Sox? Elaborate below.

Poll question closes in 3 days.

Domeshot17
05-05-2009, 03:48 PM
You would be better off giving a 3rd option, or a ABCDF grade vs. this style.

I voted NO over the last 3 seasons, but I also do not wish him to be fired.

I could grade him a C. He is average, he has good years, he has bad years. He gets ripped off in trades, he rips people off in trades. For every Quentin for a prospect deal, there are deals like Swisher where he buys at such an insanely high price of our top 2 prospects plus our number 4 or 5 prospect that its a balancing act.

He has made the playoffs TWICE in his tenure. He has depleted the Farm then semi restocked it, although there hasn't been much help yet. He tries to hard to do things against the grain. I think he would rather win 1 year out of 4 doing it his way then admit hes done a poor job and change his style. We got incredibly lucky to make the playoffs last year, combined with luck of a couple career years. Odds are Gavin Floyd is never that good ever again.

I am unhappy he has failed to create a team. That is my biggest beef. in 2005, we had a team. We had players with roles, we had players who knew their job, we had a pitching staff that worked and a bullpen that worked well together. We had guys that loved playing together. Team baseball won. It wasn't small ball, or long ball, but the right combo of both. We had a lead off man who stole bases, got the guys behind him big meaty fastballs to hit, and ran the bases well. We had a 2 hitter could hit and run, who could move guys over, and create on his own. We played good defense. Everyone had a role. Since 2005, the team has had 2 roles, get on base for a home run, or hit a home run. It isn't Walker's fault, its the roster.

Yes, no one can predict guys like Cotts-Politte-Hermanson have career years, that is why building a bullpen is hard. But it worked.

2007 was a disaster, 2008 was a little lucky, 2009 looks like 2007 a lot more then 2008 right now, but who knows after injuries. We have 2 Pitchers whose careers are running on fumes in the back end of our rotation. We have talented young kids and untalented young kids.

Like I said, I would grade him a C, but if I have to chose Pass Fail, this isn't a playoff team, so that is failure.

jdm2662
05-05-2009, 03:48 PM
I guess it is a yes or no question, but I'm not the one that ever has extreme opinions often. I would say he's above average overall. Not the top, but certainly not horrible. I've been a Sox fan since the mid-80s, and I think it's safe to say this is the best decade in my time. So, I would probably have to say yes, but of course, I wouldn't give him an A.

I do think he needs to shut up sometimes, but him and Ozzie aren't going to change anytime soon...

oeo
05-05-2009, 03:48 PM
It's tough answering this yes or no. Overall, I'm happy with what Kenny is doing, but there's still some issues here and there.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 03:50 PM
You would be better off giving a 3rd option, or a ABCDF grade vs. this style.

Too complicated, this is simple shooting from the hip; in your opinion, is Kenny Williams doing a good job running the White Sox? Just because you approve that doesn't mean you think every thing he touches is gold, and just if you dissaprove, that doesn't mean you think everything he does is terrible.

I approve of his job overall, but I didn't like trading Vazquez and not getting a starter to fill his spot and I didn't like not getting a legit CF. But overall, I think he's doing a good job.

voodoochile
05-05-2009, 03:52 PM
Yes, I do.

If for no other reason than the Sox record under his leadership.

I also think he makes good trades for the most part and has a good idea of how to work with his budget and avoid getting smoked on big money deals that have hampered other teams. Sometimes that's just a little lucky, but if luck is what it takes, so be it.

I think in general he does a solid job of evaluating his minor league talent and deciding who to keep and who to trade. I think he's got the minors headed in the right direction too.

Mostly I think he does a good job of building balanced teams where he at least tries not to leave the team with glaring holes at any given position. Sometimes that doesn't work out, but not every deal is going to be a winner. The effort is what is important.

For winning a WS and a division title both in the last 4 years (something that has only been done once before by the Sox) I give KW an A.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2009, 03:53 PM
I criticized every move he made last year and they won the division, so that shuts me up. I don't think he's the best GM in baseball, but he's very very good. Probably in the top five.

asindc
05-05-2009, 04:02 PM
I'll start by listing the things I disagreed with KW on in the past few years:

1) Trading for Swisher, based on what we gave up to get him;

2) Trading Iguchi (I guess it was a money issue);

3) Having to trade Swisher (in a buyer's market) to make up for the mistake of trading for him in the first place;

4) Failing to trade either Pauly or Dye (my favorite Sox player) when the market was most ripe for it; and

5) Allowing the farm system to languish (though improvements have been made there lately).

With that said, I say yes, he has done a good job overall.

jabrch
05-05-2009, 04:12 PM
He's not perfect - but he's done a decent job given what is available to him during his tenure here. I'm not nominating him for the HOF - but if the question is a binary approve or disapprove, I'm going yes.

russ99
05-05-2009, 04:17 PM
I'd say yes, given the amount of payroll Jerry's given him to work with this year.

That said, considering the attendance last year and this year so far, I'm a bit annoyed with our overall payroll. The economy is a convenient excuse.

Domeshot17
05-05-2009, 04:17 PM
I also will say, for my opinion here, since in the last debate that started it a lot of people said we need to stop resting on the 2005 laurels, I didnt take his world series win into account. I tried to go off the last 4, and compare them to what we did in 2005.

Edit: I also get the feeling the whole point of this is to create loaded questions to have Walker be the fall guy vs Kenny

wilburaga
05-05-2009, 04:19 PM
Besides the trades and signings I think Kenny projects a very positive image for the franchise - light years ahead of the dour and sour Schueler.

W

BleacherBandit
05-05-2009, 04:19 PM
I think that he should have been a bit more careful when trading Vasquez. Maybe he should have traded for a center field prospect instead of Lillibridge and Flowers. I know we needed a good catching prospect, but I think a GM should be more concerned with the present, especially when him and Ozzie said this year wasn't a rebuilding year.

You can commend a guy for a championship year, but how long until that runs out? I'll give Kenny a couple more years. We don't necessarily have to make the playoffs, I'd just like to see him make some effective trades and acquisitions like he did before 2005. That is, smart trades per se. Swisher turned out to be a dumb trade. Some might say that Cabrera wasn't too great of a trade, especially when we only got one year out of him.

However, these things can be seen both ways. We basically "used" Orlando for one season, and got some OK results. Vasquez was OK except in clutch situations. But I think the benefits don't outweigh the negatives. At this point, I'll say he's doing an OK job, but should we really be settling for that?

DeuceUnit
05-05-2009, 04:32 PM
I do not approve of the job he is currently doing. This team has been a player or two away from taking the next step and nothing has been done to fix it. 2005 was a wonderful year, however he still hasn't gotten us a lead off hitter or a legit center fielder since then. For every great acquisition he makes there is an equally bad one. Quentin is great and so is Danks but the Thome and Konerko 3-4 experiment failed miserably as did the Swisher trades.

Before this season started it was totally clear that we needed at least one more legit starting pitcher. Now with Contreras pitching as well as he should be at his age we have no one to go to. How could you have Owens and Wise as the main plan for centerfield and lead off??? Lillibridge is not even a good bench player at this point.

Yet this team won the division last year. Instead of making that move which puts this team over the top, we shed payroll and go with a bunch of unproven talent and guys that have one truly good year under their belts. Our bullpen has been great and that is an extremely important part of a championship team. If Kenny would have gotten a legit centerfielder and another starter we would be a much stronger team. It just seems like he just won't make that move that takes this team to the next level. I hope he makes that move if this team is still in contention at the break.

Noneck
05-05-2009, 04:58 PM
With the so called budgetary restraints put on him, I can't see anyone doing any better than him. The only beef I have ever had with him is, the farm system, and if that does not get a lot better in a couple years, My opinion will change.

voodoochile
05-05-2009, 05:02 PM
I do not approve of the job he is currently doing. This team has been a player or two away from taking the next step and nothing has been done to fix it. 2005 was a wonderful year, however he still hasn't gotten us a lead off hitter or a legit center fielder since then.For every great acquisition he makes there is an equally bad one. Quentin is great and so is Danks but the Thome and Konerko 3-4 experiment failed miserably as did the Swisher trades.

Before this season started it was totally clear that we needed at least one more legit starting pitcher. Now with Contreras pitching as well as he should be at his age we have no one to go to. How could you have Owens and Wise as the main plan for centerfield and lead off??? Lillibridge is not even a good bench player at this point.

Yet this team won the division last year. Instead of making that move which puts this team over the top, we shed payroll and go with a bunch of unproven talent and guys that have one truly good year under their belts. Our bullpen has been great and that is an extremely important part of a championship team. If Kenny would have gotten a legit centerfielder and another starter we would be a much stronger team. It just seems like he just won't make that move that takes this team to the next level. I hope he makes that move if this team is still in contention at the break.

I'm gonna address the underlined points:

1) Prior to the injuries are you disappointed with the results and production from CF and the leadoff hitters this year? If so, why?

2) What part of the Thome/Konerko 3-4 experiment is failing? Thome's 3-year splits coming into 2009 have produced a .950 OPS with averages of 90+R, RBI and BB and 35+ HR per season. PK had an injury plagued 2008 but has still managed to post a 3 year .858 OPS while averaging close to 60 XBH/season and this with 2008 being his worst year since he became an established starter. In 2009 he seems to be healthy and back to form too boot.

3) Was it KW's decision to lead off Wise or OG's? Again, are you disappointed with the production you have seen from CF prior to the injuries? If so, why?

Just for the record, Swish seems to me to be the only trade KW has made which he can really be faulted for and hindsight isn't exactly working against him either with both Gio and DLS struggling at the moment. Most of the rest of his trades (and there's a LOT more successes than failures to talk about) have been excellent. He's also done a good job of finding diamonds in the rough that other teams passed on and he was able to sign for excellent dels (Iguchi, TCM, Colon (from the looks of things)).

So to me it looks like you came into the post having decided KW is a failure and then tried to justify it, but when you look at your reasons, they appear to be easy to knock down unless I am missing something, so please, feel free to tell me what I missed and justify your stance...

kobo
05-05-2009, 05:02 PM
It's a hard question to answer yes or no to as I feel, like others, that he has made some great moves but also made questionable moves or has not been able to get back what he gave up.

I don't know what his line of thinking was after the season ended last year. He had a team that had won the division yet there were elements of the team that just weren't working out. Trading for Swisher and expecting him to be someone he clearly isn't was a huge mistake. Trading Vazquez and not getting another starter in either trade or free agency was another mistake. I don't know if he looked around at the division and thought he could get away with 2 question marks in the back of the rotation and no legit leadoff man and that's why he put the team together that we see every day.

So right now, at this point in time, I don't think he's doing a good job. This team won the division last year, they should win it again this year. I know people won't agree with this but since this team won the WS in 05 I expect them to compete every year and be at or near the top of the division every year. I don't want to hear excuses about why they can't do something; they raised the bar 4 years ago, they have to do everything they can to stay at that level.

DeuceUnit
05-05-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm gonna address the underlined points:

1) Prior to the injuries are you disappointed with the results and production from CF and the leadoff hitters this year? If so, why?

2) What part of the Thome/Konerko 3-4 experiment is failing? Thome's 3-year splits coming into 2009 have produced a .950 OPS with averages of 90+R, RBI and BB and 35+ HR per season. PK had an injury plagued 2008 but has still managed to post a 3 year .858 OPS while averaging close to 60 XBH/season and this with 2008 being his worst year since he became an established starter. In 2009 he seems to be healthy and back to form too boot.

3) Was it KW's decision to lead off Wise or OG's? Again, are you disappointed with the production you have seen from CF prior to the injuries? If so, why?

Just for the record, Swish seems to me to be the only trade KW has made which he can really be faulted for and hindsight isn't exactly working against him either with both Gio and DLS struggling at the moment. Most of the rest of his trades (and there's a LOT more successes than failures to talk about) have been excellent. He's also done a good job of finding diamonds in the rough that other teams passed on and he was able to sign for excellent dels (Iguchi, TCM, Colon (from the looks of things)).

So to me it looks like you came into the post having decided KW is a failure and then tried to justify it, but when you look at your reasons, they appear to be easy to knock down unless I am missing something, so please, feel free to tell me what I missed and justify your stance...


I would like to know what this team has won with Thome and Konerko hitting 3-4. It went so well they have been juggled in the line up. Besides lots more strikeouts and station to station baseball this team did not get any better with the acquisition of Jim Thome in my opinion. It made us older and slower but thats a whole other discussion.

From the small sample size, Getz leading off has done well but that doesn't make up for the fact that besides an injury plagued Pods in 2006 not much has been done to help the lead off spot besides sticking people that had no business leading off like Ertstad, Cabrera, and Swisher.

I also stated that for every good trade there has been a bad trade. I didn't say they were all bad. Even though DLS and Gio haven't panned out they were still HIGHLY regarded prospects at the time and we traded them for a player that really didn't fill any holes and was traded away for essentially nothing a year later.

I don't know where in my post I said he is a failure. I know Kenny can do no wrong to a lot of people but he hasn't been perfect. He is a decent GM but there have been some questionable moves. I think from 2003 to 2005 he really built a team that was well rounded and that obviously showed in 2005. I think we are close now but not everything has been addressed in my opinion and we have made a step back rather than forward.

voodoochile
05-05-2009, 05:38 PM
I would like to know what this team has won with Thome and Konerko hitting 3-4. It went so well they have been juggled in the line up. Besides lots more strikeouts and station to station baseball this team did not get any better with the acquisition of Jim Thome in my opinion. It made us older and slower but thats a whole other discussion.

From the small sample size, Getz leading off has done well but that doesn't make up for the fact that besides an injury plagued Pods in 2006 not much has been done to help the lead off spot besides sticking people that had no business leading off like Ertstad, Cabrera, and Swisher.

I also stated that for every good trade there has been a bad trade. I didn't say they were all bad. Even though DLS and Gio haven't panned out they were still HIGHLY regarded prospects at the time and we traded them for a player that really didn't fill any holes and was traded away for essentially nothing a year later.

I don't know where in my post I said he is a failure. I know Kenny can do no wrong to a lot of people but he hasn't been perfect. He is a decent GM but there have been some questionable moves. I think from 2003 to 2005 he really built a team that was well rounded and that obviously showed in 2005. I think we are close now but not everything has been addressed in my opinion and we have made a step back rather than forward.

Well they won a division title with PK and JT and won 90 games another season (just didn't get over the hump).

You stated you were evaluating the job KW is currently doing, not wanting to talk about the past is how I read that, so I replied to those points because currently they aren't as bad as you made them out to be.

Never claimed you said he was doing a horrible job, but you chose to emphasize the negative things he has accomplished at the expense of the good things he has done, so I replied to that negativity.

HomeFish
05-05-2009, 05:39 PM
He's doing more good than bad.

Tragg
05-05-2009, 06:04 PM
Lately:

Swisher trade #1 - horrible
Swisher trade #2 - bad
Richar trade - bad
Javy trade - too soon to judge
Quentin trade - outstanding
Griffey trade - of little consequence

Domeshot17
05-05-2009, 06:18 PM
The Diamonds in the rough are hit and miss too, and we rely to heavily on them. Some work (AJ-Dye-Iguchi) (I don't count the Cubans as Diamonds in the rough, everyone knew how good they could be, So far TCM was a fantastic sign and Dayan we have no idea). Some don't (Erstad, Terrero, Sisco, Macdougal).

Most don't cost much, which is why they are smart, but like I said, we put way too much stock in them.

palehozenychicty
05-05-2009, 06:49 PM
The Diamonds in the rough are hit and miss too, and we rely to heavily on them. Some work (AJ-Dye-Iguchi) (I don't count the Cubans as Diamonds in the rough, everyone knew how good they could be, So far TCM was a fantastic sign and Dayan we have no idea). Some don't (Erstad, Terrero, Sisco, Macdougal).

Most don't cost much, which is why they are smart, but like I said, we put way too much stock in them.

This is the only fault of management, in my mind. Hopefully, Kenny and the staff are able to rebuild the farm because you need them nowadays. Injuries happen, and you'll need guys that are working hard in the minors to step up and play. It also builds assets for the organization, in terms of trades and so forth.

SoxGirl4Life
05-05-2009, 07:57 PM
Lately:

Swisher trade #1 - horrible
Swisher trade #2 - bad
Richar trade - bad
Javy trade - too soon to judge
Quentin trade - outstanding
Griffey trade - of little consequence

What about the Danks and Floyd trades?

And Richar was a bad trade? Which direction? Him coming or going? He didn't really impress me. I'll agree with the Swisher trade but only in hindsight. I'd like to have (AT LEAST) Sweeney back on this team.

Ok. I've said too much. I promised myself I wouldn't take part in the hand wringing that consumes WSI during a losing streak. But I couldn't let the selective memory of leaving the Danks and Floyd trades off this list just to make your case.

Carry on :tongue:

doublem23
05-05-2009, 08:00 PM
The Diamonds in the rough are hit and miss too, and we rely to heavily on them. Some work (AJ-Dye-Iguchi) (I don't count the Cubans as Diamonds in the rough, everyone knew how good they could be, So far TCM was a fantastic sign and Dayan we have no idea). Some don't (Erstad, Terrero, Sisco, Macdougal).

Most don't cost much, which is why they are smart, but like I said, we put way too much stock in them.

Nobody had any idea how good Alexei would be last year.

Domeshot17
05-05-2009, 08:12 PM
Nobody had any idea how good Alexei would be last year.

If you didn't think Ramirez had huge potential, HUGE POTENTIAL, and was a Diamond in the rough, you lived in a box

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldOfSport/idINIndia-29649820070921?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

Yes, he wasnt Contreras huge but he was one of if not the biggest hitters in Cuba

The only real shock with TCM was he ready a lot faster then mlb teams thought.

SBSoxFan
05-05-2009, 08:17 PM
Nobody had any idea how good Alexei would be last year.

You're right. In fact, Ken Rosenthal said during one of the Saturday games on Fox last year that 2 GM's told Rosenthal they would have started the season with Alexei in AA.

munchman33
05-05-2009, 08:38 PM
Kenny has done overall a good job through the years. And he did the right thing this offseason in giving Swisher away and selling Javy for a good price. He, however, did not adequately address those positions after their subtractions. But the offseason was still a good one, given the condition of the farm compared to previous years. We could go get a starter at the deadline if we needed one.

Ranger
05-05-2009, 09:16 PM
If you didn't think Ramirez had huge potential, HUGE POTENTIAL, and was a Diamond in the rough, you lived in a box

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldOfSport/idINIndia-29649820070921?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

Yes, he wasnt Contreras huge but he was one of if not the biggest hitters in Cuba

The only real shock with TCM was he ready a lot faster then mlb teams thought.


Actually, no. Several teams took a look at him prior to the 2008 season, and the Sox were the only team that expressed real interest.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 10:18 PM
The only real shock with TCM was he ready a lot faster then mlb teams thought.

This is what I meant, I know Alexei was widely regarded as a good, maybe great player, but in terms of his readiness right off the bat in the Majors was the shocker. People talked about the Cuban League as being akin to AA ball here in the States. Yeah, people saw the potential Alexei had, but in terms of 2008, nobody was prepared for what they got.

Frater Perdurabo
05-05-2009, 10:23 PM
I voted yes. He has kept the Sox competitive while simultaneously restocking the farm system.

I have one deeppink suggestion: Get Carl Crawford. The Rays hold a $10M option for 2010, which I expect them to exercise. If not, Kenny must pounce. If they do, get him for 2011. Plenty of money comes off the books as the Contreras, Thome, Dye and PK contracts expire. This is my deeppink 2011 roster:

OF: Crawford (LF), Quentin (RF), Danks (CF), Anderson (CF/PR), Viciedo (LF/RF/3B/1B/DH/PH)
IF: Beckham (3B/SS), Alexei (SS), Getz (2B), Allen (1B/DH), Fields (DH/1B/3B), Nix (2B, SS, 3B)
C: Flowers, AJ

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 11:33 PM
Yes, I do.

If for no other reason than the Sox record under his leadership.

I also think he makes good trades for the most part and has a good idea of how to work with his budget and avoid getting smoked on big money deals that have hampered other teams. Sometimes that's just a little lucky, but if luck is what it takes, so be it.

I think in general he does a solid job of evaluating his minor league talent and deciding who to keep and who to trade. I think he's got the minors headed in the right direction too.

Mostly I think he does a good job of building balanced teams where he at least tries not to leave the team with glaring holes at any given position. Sometimes that doesn't work out, but not every deal is going to be a winner. The effort is what is important.

For winning a WS and a division title both in the last 4 years (something that has only been done once before by the Sox) I give KW an A.


Well, keep in mind too that he has operated under the biggest payroll and budget in team history in addition to some of the best attendance numbers this team has had in history. Those numbers have been head and shoulders above anyone in the division. In his tenure as GM for 8 full season, 2 division titles with what he has been given to operate with compared to the division is very average to me.

kittle42
05-05-2009, 11:37 PM
Well, keep in mind too that he has operated under the biggest payroll and budget in team history in addition to some of the best attendance numbers this team has had in history. Those numbers have been head and shoulders above anyone in the division. In his tenure as GM for 8 full season, 2 division titles with what he has been given to operate with compared to the division is very average to me.

Agreed. People always cite how much money the Sox spend when they are knocked for being cheap. OK, they spend...in my opinion, they should have been running all over this division during that time.

There is no question that the last four seasons, even with the crappy 2007, have been the best in modern Sox history. I just think even more could have been done.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 11:41 PM
Actually, no. Several teams took a look at him prior to the 2008 season, and the Sox were the only team that expressed real interest.


Ranger, I think many teams wanted him but not for the Price tag of about $5 million for 4 years. Many teams thought he was going to need 2 -3 years of seasoning in the minors (minimum), and they couldn't budget for that.

I'm surprised the Sox were able to budget even a higher risk price tage for Viciendo.

Hitmen77
05-05-2009, 11:42 PM
With a simple yes or no approval vote, I certainly vote approval of the job KW's doing.

He got Danks, Floyd, and Quentin in trades that were steals. He also is the one who went ahead and signed Alexei.

Of course he's not perfect: Both Swisher trades (especially the first one w/ Oakland) are looking pretty bad - anyone rather have Ryan Sweeney and Gio's potential over Betemit and Marquez's potential at this point? Also, he does have to take some responsibility for how bad our farm system got. Sure, he wasn't doing the work directly, but it was people he hired that let our system get so bad.

But yay or nay? No doubt about it - he get a yay.

Also remember that, even though he has a pretty decent payroll to work with, he doesn't get blank checks to fill holes with outrageously prices free agents like GMs like Jim Hendry do.

Gavin
05-06-2009, 01:30 AM
Yeah, he got us Floyd and Danks and Quentin... and even with them we got 89 wins and 1-3 in the postseason. Oh yeah, also 2007 happened.

How is it possible to ignore both center field and a leadoff hitter for three years and be considered a good GM? What recent MLB team has the World Series without one of these two?

Slightly-better-than-mediocre is becoming so acceptable....

asindc
05-06-2009, 09:30 AM
Yeah, he got us Floyd and Danks and Quentin... and even with them we got 89 wins and 1-3 in the postseason. Oh yeah, also 2007 happened.

How is it possible to ignore both center field and a leadoff hitter for three years and be considered a good GM? What recent MLB team has the World Series without one of these two?

Slightly-better-than-mediocre is becoming so acceptable....

How do you know he has "ignored" those issues?

PaleHoser
05-06-2009, 09:33 AM
KW has made more good moves than bad. More than anything, I attribute the complete change in organizational attitude - the "we're trying to win a World Series" rather than "we're trying to compete" completely to him.

Soxfest
05-06-2009, 09:42 AM
My biggest problem is with last years attendance numbers and another 11% increase in ticket prices in 2009 one of only 11 teams to do it this year and the number of contracts off the books at the end of 2009 too not invest that money to improve the team in 2009 is criminal. Sox fans see the shell game and after showing major support then cry poor again over and over is a bit much!

Harry Chappas
05-06-2009, 10:23 AM
Yeah, he got us Floyd and Danks and Quentin... and even with them we got 89 wins and 1-3 in the postseason. Oh yeah, also 2007 happened.

How is it possible to ignore both center field and a leadoff hitter for three years and be considered a good GM? What recent MLB team has the World Series without one of these two?

Slightly-better-than-mediocre is becoming so acceptable....

Overall, I'd say he has done a good job, but I get annoyed by how the organization pays lip service to getting "grinders." When I hear "grinders," I think of guys that don't strike out much, move runners over, bunt, have some athleticism, and hit in the .275 range. In other words, players like Getz. Instead, we have base-clogging mastadons like Jim Thome and swing-from-the-heels guys like TCM.

Madvora
05-06-2009, 10:55 AM
I really don't know how to vote on this. I'm just waiting for things to play out.

On one hand KW did say that Joe Borchard was "untouchable." On the other hand he turned Borchard into Matt Thornton. He does some really good and some really bad things. Overall the team is above average with him.

ChiSoxFan81
05-06-2009, 11:59 AM
I absolutely approve of Kenny. He's been at the helm for one of the best stretches in Sox history. Most of his trades look like steals once they play out. Sure, he does make mistakes, but I like that he refuses to "rebuild". He has kept guys like Konerko, Buehrle, and Dye in town, and has sent guys packing like Swisher and Javy. Whenever Kenny pulls off a trade, I am pretty confident that we'll get the better of the deal in the end, no matter how it looks on the surface. When was the last time you had that kind of faith in the GM? The only complaints I would have would probably be about not signing some free agents, but KW is only working with the resources he is allowed.

kitekrazy
05-06-2009, 12:06 PM
I voted yes. He has kept the Sox competitive while simultaneously restocking the farm system.


I don't know a lot about the farm system but I hope if anything the improvements would be in the area of scouting/drafting instead of trading for other organization's prospects.

tsoxman
05-07-2009, 06:26 AM
I don't know a lot about the farm system but I hope if anything the improvements would be in the area of scouting/drafting instead of trading for other organization's prospects.

Exactly and that has been the biggest failure with Williams. And please don't use the excuse that the Sox have low picks in the draft as a reason for the farm system's failures.

One would think that if the Sox do have budgetary issues on a consisitent basis, developing a strong scouting/drafting system would have be a top priority long before recently.

asindc
05-07-2009, 09:50 AM
Exactly and that has been the biggest failure with Williams. And please don't use the excuse that the Sox have low picks in the draft as a reason for the farm system's failures.

One would think that if the Sox do have budgetary issues on a consisitent basis, developing a strong scouting/drafting system would have be a top priority long before recently.

I doubt that you will find anyone to disagree with your statement, including those who voted yes, like me. I'm looking at the overall performance, however, and his shortcomings in building at least an adequate farm system are not outweighed by his prowess as a deal-maker.

oeo
05-07-2009, 10:00 AM
I don't know a lot about the farm system but I hope if anything the improvements would be in the area of scouting/drafting instead of trading for other organization's prospects.

It takes good scouting to trade for other organization's prospects, too; and Poreda, Beckham, Allen, and Viciedo are all our own guys.

Regardless, they had a good draft last year and have some good prospects in the lower minors.

Dan H
05-07-2009, 10:02 AM
Overall, I have liked the job Williams has done. Every successful person has failures as well, so we can always criticize some things. If anything, this guy isn't afraid to take a risk.

His real legacy will be determined in the next couple years. No matter what fans or the White Sox say, this team is rebuilding. By the end of 2010, Konerko, Thome and Dye will either gone or truly in the twillight of their careers. How are they going to be replaced? And for now, Colon and Contreras are short term and iffy solutions to a thin starting staff. Williams will have to address this situation as well.

Gavin
05-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Nice rotation, Kenny.

All of the sudden Javy's sub 1.50 WHIP looks attractive. At least we won't have a playoff team for Javy to suck in this year.

LoveYourSuit
05-08-2009, 11:40 PM
Nice rotation, Kenny.

All of the sudden Javy's sub 1.50 WHIP looks attractive. At least we won't have a playoff team for Javy to suck in this year.


Flowers better turn out to be something special or else...

TomBradley72
05-09-2009, 02:08 PM
If you look at 2007-2009...not so good for KW...a barren farm system that he has overseen for about 15+ years...albeit recently replenished with some draft picks and prospects acquired from other teams.

We have no outfield depth in the organization (as evidenced by Wise, Pods in the picture this year, with no real help available in the minors), no pitching depth in the organization (as evidenced by Colon as our 4th starter, no real 5th starter, and overpaying for Linebrink's services, no real help available in the minors).

I think he's made brilliant trades/signings, without the steals of Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin and Ramirez, we'd be down there with the Nationals, but his overall management/neglect of the minor league system up until a year or two ago, is his achilles heel as a GM.

oeo
05-09-2009, 02:25 PM
I think he's made brilliant trades/signings, without the steals of Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin and Ramirez, we'd be down there with the Nationals, but his overall management/neglect of the minor league system up until a year or two ago, is his achilles heel as a GM.

Let's not get crazy...the Nationals? I think not.

And I don't think he's "neglected" the farm system. Two things happened: 1)He traded the future talent to get present talent and 2)They had a few awful drafts- I don't know if they changed philosophy or what, but it didn't work.

russ99
05-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Let's put in a hypothetical here, had Jerry broken the bank to sign Torii Hunter, where would we have ended up last year? Could it put us past Tampa and Boston? Would Kenny had to go out on a limb and trade for Swisher? And also, how different would the team be this year?

If Kenny had the same lack of payroll restrictions as the club on the other side of town, would we have the same holes on the team as we have now?

So, bottom line, Kenny's superiors are directly responsible for the resources allocated to him as GM. Kenny has done an amazing job given those resources, and I'd put him in the top 5-8 GM's in the league during his tenure.

If you have a beef about Kenny not getting this or that star player, then maybe you should take issue with the Chairman and his ridiculous payroll reduction excuses first.

Gavin
05-09-2009, 02:47 PM
Let's put in a hypothetical here, had Jerry broken the bank to sign Torii Hunter, where would we have ended up last year? Could it put us past Tampa and Boston? Would Kenny had to go out on a limb and trade for Swisher? And also, how different would the team be this year?

If Kenny had the same lack of payroll restrictions as the club on the other side of town, would we have the same holes on the team as we have now?

So, bottom line, Kenny's superiors are directly responsible for the resources allocated to him as GM. Kenny has done an amazing job given those resources, and I'd put him in the top 5-8 GM's in the league during his tenure.

If you have a beef about Kenny not getting this or that star player, then maybe you should take issue with the Chairman and his ridiculous payroll reduction excuses first.

I can't get behind the payroll excuse when he's in the AL Central and competing against teams like the Royals/Twins instead of the Red Sox/Yankees.

TomBradley72
05-09-2009, 06:58 PM
Let's not get crazy...the Nationals? I think not.

And I don't think he's "neglected" the farm system. Two things happened: 1)He traded the future talent to get present talent and 2)They had a few awful drafts- I don't know if they changed philosophy or what, but it didn't work.

Yes...the Nationals. Since the 2005 team, as Garcia, Garland, El Duque, Contreras departed/declined..our farm system has not produced a single starting rotation other Brandon MacCarthy. If we didn't have Quentin...who would be in the outfield..maybe a mid-level free agent..definitely nothing from our farm system. Same with shortstop without Ramirez.

Maybe not "neglected"...but definitely "ineffective"...he's accountable for the mediocre drafts. They DID change philosophy and overahauled their minor league system a year or 2 ago.

TealTank
05-09-2009, 07:10 PM
The past few years not developing the bullpen is my biggest beef with KW. I do not understand why he didn't look at Japan for bullpen help.

Many Japanese relievers have done well in the majors. They may not be dominant stoppers but are effective, none the less.

To top it off most are cheap.

And before anybody replies, What about Shingo? I know about Shingo. But from 06-now, the middle relief for the Sox needed a lot of work.

During that same time period the Dodgers rebuilt their bullpen for almost nothing and after losing Gagne, signing a player from Japan and will solid minor league development.

Saito become their closer, did a great job until he got injuried, then Broxston is their closer. Then guys like Wade and McDonald, from their minor leagues have stepped up as middle relievers.