PDA

View Full Version : Rogers wants DH in NL


thomas35forever
05-05-2009, 12:00 PM
Only Zambrano getting hurt would spawn an article like this.
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/05/common-sense-calls-dh-in-nl-too.html

thedudeabides
05-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Only Zambrano getting hurt would spawn an article like this.
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/05/common-sense-calls-dh-in-nl-too.html

Actually, he's been advocating this for some time. I just think Zambrano's injury was a good time to for him to drive his point home.

chisoxfanatic
05-05-2009, 12:37 PM
Mully & Hanley were talking about this as well. I actually think it's a good idea.

captainclutch24
05-05-2009, 12:38 PM
Zambrano is a better hitter than several non pitchers in the game. Injuries happen, he could have pulled it running for a bunt or to cover first later in the game. Plus, I don't like the DH

asindc
05-05-2009, 12:42 PM
I laugh at this. I like having at least one league in which there is no DH. I've always been ambivalent about it.

southside rocks
05-05-2009, 12:47 PM
Mully & Hanley were talking about this as well. I actually think it's a good idea.

I heard some of their discussion this morning. They made some good points -- baseball has become more and more specialized, and assuming that pitch counts, LOOGYs, setup men, and closers are here to stay, it does make sense to have all pitchers not bat, IMO.

35th and Shields
05-05-2009, 12:53 PM
Actually, he's been advocating this for some time. I just think Zambrano's injury was a good time to for him to drive his point home.

Just being on the topic of how MLB is different as far as one league having a DH, it also doesn't have set surface that every team plays on. Football, hockey, basketball all have regulations for court and field size whereas baseball dimensions, length of grass, type of grass, etz, vary at pretty much every field.

khan
05-05-2009, 01:02 PM
If memory serves:

The AL, Japan leagues [EDIT: I think it's ONLY the Pacific league, not the Central Japanese League that uses the DH], Korea, Taiwan, Venezuela, Mexican [at least winter leagues], Dominican Republic, Cuban, and even the Netherlands and Italy all use the DH.

Only the backwards-ass NL does NOT have the DH. This is akin to using placekickers as middle linebackers in only the NFC, while the rest of the football-playing world does not.

But, in any case, I'm starting to like having pitchers hit. This, if for no other reason than it may have shortened Mark Prior's career, and has put Zambrano on the DL. :D:

thedudeabides
05-05-2009, 01:07 PM
Just being on the topic of how MLB is different as far as one league having a DH, it also doesn't have set surface that every team plays on. Football, hockey, basketball all have regulations for court and field size whereas baseball dimensions, length of grass, type of grass, etz, vary at pretty much every field.

These are the things that make baseball so unique. I don't mind having different rules in the two leagues, but I think it is becoming time for a change.

Most pitchers stop hitting after their high school days. Couple that with the frequency pitchers now change leagues and I think there is a good argument to make the change. Speaking of pitchers changing leagues, has anyone here seen a Daniel Cabrera at bat? It's quite a site.

ChiSoxFan81
05-05-2009, 01:13 PM
I really don't care what the NL does, but the DH is here to stay in the AL. If they want to continue being dominated by the AL, they can feel free to keep letting pitchers bat. What some fans see as strategy, I see as boring. I wouldn't want to see a FG kicker try his hand at QB, and I don't want to see a pitcher trying to hit.

mrfourni
05-05-2009, 01:36 PM
I really don't care what the NL does, but the DH is here to stay in the AL. If they want to continue being dominated by the AL, they can feel free to keep letting pitchers bat. What some fans see as strategy, I see as boring. I wouldn't want to see a FG kicker try his hand at QB, and I don't want to see a pitcher trying to hit.

I agree. I also think there is as much strategy in a manager working his team's way through an AL lineup with 9 professional hitters through 9 innings than there is in managing the double switch and having a virtually guaranteed out every 9th batter.

PaleHoser
05-05-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm not a fan of the DH and never have been.

I think it's good for a pitcher to see how effective a 90 MPH fastball can be knee high on the outside corner first-hand. I also think it helps make a pitcher think twice about how far they come inside.

It would have been nice to see a Rangers pitcher hit after they drilled four of our guys in the recent series. They might have had to change their pants after their at-bat and maybe we don't have to starters out with hand injuries.

Lack of depth in the lineup might also put an end to pitch counts. There's nothing wrong with throwing a three-pitch strikeout to the other teams pitcher instead of having to pitch to a 20 HR hitter in the 9th spot of the order, providing both teams are playing by the same rules.

thomas35forever
05-05-2009, 01:51 PM
If the NL adds the DH or the AL ditches it, there's no longer a difference between the two leagues. Therefore, they could have interleague play year round like interconference play in the NFL.

SOXPHILE
05-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Boers and Bernstein just made a great point right at the top of their show. This is the same Phil Rogers that lauds and promotes the stupid World Baseball Classic, and always pooh-pooh's any concerns people have about injury in those exhibition games, saying injury can occur at any time,- spring training, the WBC, or the regular season, and that's not a reason to not love the WBC.

Yet, here he is, because Zambozo got injured, saying that pitchers shouldn't be hitting due to the injury risk. :?:

Iwritecode
05-05-2009, 02:31 PM
If the NL adds the DH or the AL ditches it, there's no longer a difference between the two leagues. Therefore, they could have interleague play year round like interconference play in the NFL.

What's stopping them from having interleague play year-round now?

soltrain21
05-05-2009, 02:50 PM
I'm not a fan of the DH and never have been.

I think it's good for a pitcher to see how effective a 90 MPH fastball can be knee high on the outside corner first-hand. I also think it helps make a pitcher think twice about how far they come inside.

It would have been nice to see a Rangers pitcher hit after they drilled four of our guys in the recent series. They might have had to change their pants after their at-bat and maybe we don't have to starters out with hand injuries.

Lack of depth in the lineup might also put an end to pitch counts. There's nothing wrong with throwing a three-pitch strikeout to the other teams pitcher instead of having to pitch to a 20 HR hitter in the 9th spot of the order, providing both teams are playing by the same rules.

I hate the DH, as well.

Railsplitter
05-05-2009, 04:23 PM
I'm no fan of the DH. I think it ironic that the the DH rule's first year, Nolan Ryan threw his first two no-hitters and set a single-season strike record.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 04:40 PM
I'm no fan of the DH. I think it ironic that the the DH rule's first year, Nolan Ryan threw his first two no-hitters and set a single-season strike record.

The mound was still raised, wasn't it? That, and I'm sure no one was just holding on to a guy who couldn't field but could rake just in case one day they added a DH.

I don't give a **** what the NL does, but can we please drop interleague play? The novelty has worn off big-time.

jdm2662
05-05-2009, 04:47 PM
The mound was still raised, wasn't it? That, and I'm sure no one was just holding on to a guy who couldn't field but could rake just in case one day they added a DH.

I don't give a **** what the NL does, but can we please drop interleague play? The novelty has worn off big-time.

Not to mention the Cubs-Sox games were both fan bases act like much bigger morons than normal. I can do without it.

JB98
05-06-2009, 12:42 AM
Not to mention the Cubs-Sox games were both fan bases act like much bigger morons than normal. I can do without it.

Totally agree. I dislike Interleague play and especially dislike the crosstown series. Those games are not enjoyable to attend. Too much crap going on.

scarsofthumper
05-06-2009, 02:14 AM
I enjoy interleague play as well as the NL only having the DH. Believe it or not there are some pitchers that actually like to bat (Zambrano, Sabathia, Owings). Z could have injured himself just as easily chasing the same kind of bunt he laid down.

oeo
05-06-2009, 04:47 AM
Totally agree. I dislike Interleague play and especially dislike the crosstown series. Those games are not enjoyable to attend. Too much crap going on.

Yup, it's a terrible experience.

white sox bill
05-06-2009, 06:28 AM
Totally agree. I dislike Interleague play and especially dislike the crosstown series. Those games are not enjoyable to attend. Too much crap going on.

According to cub fans, thats the only time we sell out at The Cell

Iwritecode
05-06-2009, 09:30 AM
The mound was still raised, wasn't it? That, and I'm sure no one was just holding on to a guy who couldn't field but could rake just in case one day they added a DH.

I don't give a **** what the NL does, but can we please drop interleague play? The novelty has worn off big-time.

I don't know why they don't expand inter-league play so that all the teams play each other at least once a year like most other sports.

FielderJones
05-07-2009, 04:19 PM
I don't know why they don't expand inter-league play so that all the teams play each other at least once a year like most other sports.

If they moved a team from the NL to the AL and had six divisions of five teams, that would be necessary.

I love the DH. Calling the double-switch a chess game is an insult to chess players everywhere.

chisox616
05-07-2009, 05:05 PM
This is what makes watching Tony La Russa manage so fun, though. Late in the game, you could see Wainwright up there pinch hitting for a guy, or Joel Pineiro pinch-running. It's great stuff.

Still, I'm AL born and raised (mostly), but I think the NL should just be left alone. Although Carpenter going on the DL does kind of make me wonder... In the end, though, that is no big surprise. If he didn't injure himself batting, it would've happened somewhere else.

ComiskeyBrewer
05-07-2009, 08:03 PM
If the NL adds the DH or the AL ditches it, there's no longer a difference between the two leagues. Therefore, they could have interleague play year round like interconference play in the NFL.

Honestly, i was thinking about that today. Outside of the DH, there is no real reason to have two different leagues anymore. All the Umps are MLB, not NL and AL now, and both leagues play each other now.

khan
05-08-2009, 10:49 AM
I love the DH. Calling the double-switch a chess game is an insult to chess players everywhere.

Well-said. Figuring out how to do the double-switch isn't exactly as hard as working out unified field theory.

TDog
05-08-2009, 01:36 PM
The mound was still raised, wasn't it? That, and I'm sure no one was just holding on to a guy who couldn't field but could rake just in case one day they added a DH.

I don't give a **** what the NL does, but can we please drop interleague play? The novelty has worn off big-time.

The mound was lowered after the 1968 season. I don't have Bob Gibson's stats committed to memory, but his ERA was obscenely low. The American League only had one .300 hitter in 1968. Carl Yastrzemski hit .301. Danny Cater was second in the race for the batting title at .290.

The AL added the DH because it wanted to increase its offense, which was behind the National League's. Some NL teams voted for the DH before the 1973 season. I'm not sure if it was a simple majority, but the NL needed a three-fourths majority, unlike the AL's simple majority, so it didn't come close to going through in the senior circuit.

Initially the DH helped starting pitchers more than people expected. They didn't come out for pinch-hitters where they otherwise might. In either the first or second year of the DH, there was at least 10 or 11 20-game winners in the AL. There were a lot more complete games. Great starters flourished. All they needed to do was go out and pitch every fourth day.

A few years later, five-man rotations came into vogue, and a few years after that people started counting pitches. And more hitters began enhancing their performance. (Bob Gibson probably would have tested positive for steroids because he was asthmatic. The over-the-counter medication he pitched on television had steroids in it, not that it helped his arm at all.)

The biggest reason for pitchers' eras wasn't the height of the mound, although that played a role. It was that pitchers weren't coddled.

DoItForDanPasqua
05-08-2009, 01:57 PM
The DH is an abomination and a threat to the republic!

Though I agree, it's not exactly chess, it does bring more strategy to the game. The late game decision of whether to pinch hit or keep your pitcher, who is throwing well, in the game is one of the most important decisions a manager has to make.

It's also very exciting when a pitcher surprises everyone and gets an extra base hit.

There is plenty of offense these days; I don't think any more has to be added to the National League by adding an aging slugger who is too fat or unskilled to play a position. It's part of the symmetry, if you hit, you must be on the field also.

eriqjaffe
05-08-2009, 02:35 PM
I don't have Bob Gibson's stats committed to memory, but his ERA was obscenely low.1.12, and Luis Tiant led the AL with a 1.60 ERA that year.

khan
05-08-2009, 02:51 PM
The DH is an abomination and a threat to the republic!
Oh, I don't know. I'd put it a few hundred quadrllion spots in terms of a list of "threats to the republic" after massive trade deficits, budget deficits, international terrorism, pending tax increases to satitate the deluge of retiring baby boomers that didn't bother to save for their retirement, and a whole lot of other issues. But that's just me.

Though I agree, it's not exactly chess, it does bring more strategy to the game.
Thank you for agreeing with me. If Dusty Baker can handle this, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't take an astrophysicist to work this out.

The late game decision of whether to pinch hit or keep your pitcher, who is throwing well, in the game is one of the most important decisions a manager has to make.
Actually, deciding the lineup, handling the rotation and the bullpen are a bit more important. Handling injuries, new call-ups, and aging veterans might be a bit more important, too. It is also as exciting as watching paint dry, and highly overrated.

It's also very exciting when a pitcher surprises everyone and gets an extra base hit.
No, it should be a huge fine to the pitcher who gives up a hit to all but a tiny minority of pitchers.

There is plenty of offense these days; I don't think any more has to be added to the National League by adding an aging slugger who is too fat or unskilled to play a position.
Well, a whole lot of steroid cheats, MLB front offices, and fans would tell you otherwise.

It's part of the symmetry, if you hit, you must be on the field also.
Sure. And every pitcher should be forced to throw 200 pitches/start and complete every game, too right? Really, there IS no symmetry in baseball or in life.

DoItForDanPasqua
05-08-2009, 02:59 PM
Really, there IS no symmetry in baseball or in life.

You could argue that there is no symmetry in baseball, but I think the invariance of the laws of physics through time and space would qualify as symmetry in life.

palehozenychicty
05-08-2009, 03:58 PM
I think that both leagues should use the DH. They definitely won't get rid of it because the AL has their highest revenue franchises use the slot.

It's like the Western Coference using a 12-foot rim and the Eastern Conference using the standard 10. It's absurd on all levels.

russ99
05-08-2009, 06:34 PM
Personally, I prefer NL baseball, and I especially like seeing it applied to the AL, which is what Ozzie at least claims to do.

The steroid era is the ultimate indictment of the DH and homer-or-nothing AL philosophy, and I would even go as far and say that's partially the cause of it, since an older slugger has the mentality that he needs to do anything to continue the his career and salary and the DH enables that mentality. (Recent Sox DHs excluded) Also, that would mean 15 less crappy #9 hitters in the league.

But I wouldn't change it. the variation between leagues makes it more interesting.

Daver
05-08-2009, 06:51 PM
Boers and Bernstein just made a great point right at the top of their show. This is the same Phil Rogers that lauds and promotes the stupid World Baseball Classic, and always pooh-pooh's any concerns people have about injury in those exhibition games, saying injury can occur at any time,- spring training, the WBC, or the regular season, and that's not a reason to not love the WBC.

Yet, here he is, because Zambozo got injured, saying that pitchers shouldn't be hitting due to the injury risk. :?:

Phil has been an advocate o the DH in the NL for years, this is not a recent development, he is merely using this injury to point it out yet again. The NL is the only league in professional baseball in this country that does not use the DH, and without doing any research at all I would guess that injuries to pitchers that are not arm related occurr at a much higher rate in the NL.

whitem0nkey
05-08-2009, 07:37 PM
I'm for unity first.

I would rather have No DH for both leagues over what we have now.
But I would prefer to have a DH in both leagues.

Nellie_Fox
05-09-2009, 12:33 AM
I'm for unity first.

I would rather have No DH for both leagues over what we have now.
But I would prefer to have a DH in both leagues.And I'd rather see the leagues go back to being totally separate, not meeting until the World Series. I hate the blurring of the distinctions between the leagues.

BadBobbyJenks
05-09-2009, 11:29 AM
Rogers is such an ass clown. He is the same guy whos said all pitchers need to go to the WBC because injuries happen everywhere. Which is it?

khan
05-11-2009, 10:58 AM
The steroid era is the ultimate indictment of the DH and homer-or-nothing AL philosophy, and I would even go as far and say that's partially the cause of it, since an older slugger has the mentality that he needs to do anything to continue the his career and salary and the DH enables that mentality.
I'd agree with you, IF there were no National League steroid cheats. But as Bonds/Sosa/McGuire and others have illustrated, this clearly is not the case. Maybe the steroid era is the ultimate indictment of a need for more offense. Maybe MLB looked the other way, as they recognize that many casual fans like to see a lot of offense.

I just can't agree with your line of thought in this statement. Heck, we're all White Sox fans, and we've been bitching about the "homer-or-nothing philosophy" for years. And as I look at the better teams in the AL with envy, not all of them have this philosphy. Who among us, AL or NL fans, wouldn't KILL to have Tampa's offense, for example? Or the consistency of the 2005 SOX team? Or the versatility of Boston's offense?

This belief that the "homer-or-nothing philosophy" is an AL-only idea is silly.

Also, that would mean 15 less crappy #9 hitters in the league.
Huh? For as bad as many #9 hitters are in the AL [just look at the SOX's #9s], the overwhelming majority of pitchers can't hit for ****. This statement of yours strikes me as a bit of a contradiction.

Nellie_Fox
05-11-2009, 11:36 AM
Huh? For as bad as many #9 hitters are in the AL [just look at the SOX's #9s], the overwhelming majority of pitchers can't hit for ****. This statement of yours strikes me as a bit of a contradiction.Besides, all those crappy #9 hitters in the AL would just become crappy #8 hitters, with the pitchers becoming even crappier #9 hitters. It's not the DH's who are hitting in the 9 hole.

khan
05-11-2009, 11:42 AM
The NL is the only league in professional baseball in this country that does not use the DH, and without doing any research at all I would guess that injuries to pitchers that are not arm related occurr at a much higher rate in the NL.
I'm pretty sure that only the NL and one of the leagues in Japan are the only two professional leagues that play without the DH. I'm also pretty sure that the other Japanese league, Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, Venezuela, Panama, Cuba, Dominican Republic, and even the Netherlands and Italy all use the DH.

TDog
05-11-2009, 02:11 PM
And I'd rather see the leagues go back to being totally separate, not meeting until the World Series. I hate the blurring of the distinctions between the leagues.

Kids today think of MLB as one league, and I don't like that. At least the DH helps maintain a distinction between the American and National Leagues.

kitekrazy
05-13-2009, 11:19 AM
Zambrano is a better hitter than several non pitchers in the game. Injuries happen, he could have pulled it running for a bunt or to cover first later in the game. Plus, I don't like the DH

He could probably bat 7th for the Sox.
He would be the best bunter on this team. That was a damn good bunt.

I can't stand the DH either since it makes for over all fundamentally weak lousy baseball.

I'd rather both leagues stick with one or the other.