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thomas35forever
05-04-2009, 10:30 PM
Elaborate, if you care.

Marqhead
05-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Lethargic.

ChiSoxFan81
05-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Fire Walker! We made Greinke look like a AA call-up tonight!

GoGoCrede
05-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Dull and predictable. Let's take it tomorrow.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Pitching did well. Not all crap. Once Quentin stops sucking along with Fields and Dye coming back, pitching is all we will need help with.

SoxGirl4Life
05-04-2009, 10:34 PM
The pitching was good. We didn't get blown out, at least.

guillensdisciple
05-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Quentin coming back is not guaranteed. While I think he will, and hope he does, I don't see why we should think that he will come back to monster status. That was one year- many people have those.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 10:35 PM
I knew we had Zero chance today, so I'm not upset.


I am starting to look at the manager of this club if he has any interest in making this team play the damn game of baseball :angry:

There is ZERO excuse for Lilibridge and Pods to not have bunt in each of their situations today.

I want the Ozzie clan here to come and defend this nonesense.

:angry::angry::angry:

The game today, did not upset me.

Ozzie, that's a different story :angry::angry::angry:

roylestillman
05-04-2009, 10:35 PM
To borrow the CNBC analogy, tonight's "green shoot" appeared to be Richard. Nice outing as he may be getting ready for the Contreres slot.

DirtySox
05-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Meh. More of the same.

Hard to get upset when I expected a mediocre team at the start of the season.

Hopefully they can prove me wrong though!

palehozenychicty
05-04-2009, 10:36 PM
I didn't think we would win today, so let's try tomorrow.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2009, 10:37 PM
Well, I can tolerate losing to the Zack Grienkes of the world, but it's losing to guys with a 7 something ERA that pisses me off.

We're going to play like **** for awhile I think simply because we are so banged up.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 10:37 PM
I knew we had Zero chance today, so I'm not upset.


I am starting to look at the manager of this club if he has any interest in making this team play the damn game of baseball :angry:

There is ZERO excuse for Lilibridge and Pods to not have bunt in each of their situations today.

I want the Ozzie clan here to come and defend this nonesense.

:angry::angry::angry:

The game today, did not upset me.

Ozzie, that's a different story :angry::angry::angry:Oh no, you have to remember 2005! 2005! He was the manger remember!? That's a load of crap because Walker was the hitting coach in 05, and everyone hates him now. It's time to hate both of them.

chisoxfanatic
05-04-2009, 10:39 PM
I knew we had Zero chance today, so I'm not upset.
Me neither. Grienke's just dealing this year. It's too bad that this was a 2-game series and he HAD to be one of the two pitchers they threw at us.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 10:40 PM
Oh no, you have to remember 2005! 2005! He was the manger remember!? That's a load of crap because Walker was the hitting coach in 05, and everyone hates him now. It's time to hate both of them.


I agree. I don't care for Walker anymore.

Ozzie bitches that he wants "his type" of players who can do little things. Today he had the line up to try to do little things versus a Bus on the mound. He decides to sit back and play for the big inning. Pathetic :angry:

SoxGirl4Life
05-04-2009, 10:41 PM
Me neither. Grienke's just dealing this year. It's too bad that this was a 2-game series and he HAD to be one of the two pitchers they threw at us.

lol.. I think for some reason, KC hates us with a passion and will rearrange their rotation so that Greinke and Davies pitch in every series against us.

chisoxfanatic
05-04-2009, 10:42 PM
lol.. I think for some reason, KC hates us with a passion and will rearrange their rotation so that Greinke and Davies pitch in every series against us.
Must be from the thumpings they've been routinely taking for the past 2 decades.

Woofer
05-04-2009, 10:42 PM
Well, I can tolerate losing to the Zack Grienkes of the world, but it's losing to guys with a 7 something ERA that pisses me off.

We're going to play like **** for awhile I think simply because we are so banged up.

This is the problem. We lose way too often to the 7 something ERA pitchers. That's what makes losing to the quality pitching ever harder to stomach. If you can't beat the Greinkes, you'd better beat the nobodies.

SOXfnNlansing
05-04-2009, 10:44 PM
Meh. More of the same.

Hard to get upset when I expected a mediocre team at the start of the season.

Hopefully they can prove me wrong though!

I feel the same way. This is the first game I didn't watch or tivo. I just checked on the web to see them down 3-0 in the 6th inning. I just checked again and saw they lost. The are so mediocre and boring now that it will take a 5 game winning streak to get me watching religiously again. I have a ton of games to see in person, but I'm not going to watch junk at home until they improve. And as you posted, hopefully they can prove 'us' wrong and start playing watchable baseball soon.

DirtySox
05-04-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm probably the minority, but I like Greinke and enjoy watching him pitch. He's overcome some adversity in his career and is becoming a force to be reckoned with. That being said I hope he isn't scheduled to face us anymore this year.

It also helps that it takes some attention from all the Red Sox/Yankees garbage shoved down our throats.

DeuceUnit
05-04-2009, 10:45 PM
Another day, another shut out. How many is that this year? 5? About half as many as we had all of last year already. Sad thing is, I fully expected Greinke to go complete game shut out. Our pitching has been great so far this year. If our offense was playing/being coached anywhere near its potential we could have 4 more wins easily.

SoxGirl4Life
05-04-2009, 10:45 PM
I'm probably the minority, but I like Greinke and enjoy watching him pitch. He's overcome some adversity in his career and is becoming a force to be reckoned with. That being said I hope he isn't scheduled to face us anymore this year.

It also helps that it takes some attention from all the Red Sox/Yankees garbage shoved down our throat.

I would like him better if he didn't headhunt the Sox the past two years.

tstrike2000
05-04-2009, 10:46 PM
Pretty much an automatic loss before the game started with the way Greinke's going. If Contreras was pitching, I would've bet my year's salary on it. However, let's come back and end this skid tomorrow.

kevingrt
05-04-2009, 10:52 PM
That was boring and sucked.

Tragg
05-04-2009, 10:55 PM
This is the problem with loading your bench with utility level talent...yes, they can cover multiple positions, but in the end, you have 3rd rate talent out there. You feel it when you suffer multiple injuries.

Tonight we faced a good pitcher.
But the hacking and flailing against Ranger pitching was much more frustrating.

Hartman
05-04-2009, 10:55 PM
We can't hit for ****, pitching is schizophrenic, and we have injuries galore.

I hope things change soon.

doublem23
05-04-2009, 10:56 PM
Oh no, you have to remember 2005! 2005! He was the manger remember!? That's a load of crap because Walker was the hitting coach in 05, and everyone hates him now. It's time to hate both of them.

Do you really not believe you can be angry at an individual coach and not at another?

Noneck
05-04-2009, 10:57 PM
There is ZERO excuse for Lilibridge and Pods to not have bunt in each of their situations today.

I want the Ozzie clan here to come and defend this nonesense.



I thought the chances were slim tonite but thought with 5 speedy guys in a row, they would try to do something out of the norm. Well, I was wrong. SOS just a different day and different people.

jdm2662
05-04-2009, 10:59 PM
This is the problem with loading your bench with utility level talent...yes, they can cover multiple positions, but in the end, you have 3rd rate talent out there. You feel it when you suffer multiple injuries..

There is a reason why they are bench players. If they were good enough to start, they would be starting on other teams. When most teams lose key players, they are going to suffer. When you are foced to play Pods in RF, you are bound for trouble. The problem isn't so much the bench players. It's your key players like Thome, Quentin, and Ramierz not hitting. Sure, Thome got the big hit on Friday, but his .229 average isn't looking too good right now. The state of the team sucks right now, but **** happens. How about these so called key guys stepping up.

thomas35forever
05-04-2009, 11:00 PM
Baseball Tonight was giving Greinke a bunch of love. He's gonna be dealing and dealing well this season.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 11:01 PM
I thought the chances were slim tonite but thought with 5 speedy guys in a row, they would try to do something out of the norm. Well, I was wrong. SOS just a different day and different people.

You are not going to string 4-5 hits off a guy like Greinke. You are not. Especially with the bottom of the order.

You have to pluck away at a 3 run lead and perhaps get him out of there by the ninth inning. Soria is not a closer that scares me either.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 11:04 PM
There is a reason why they are bench players. If they were good enough to start, they would be starting on other teams. When most teams lose key players, they are going to suffer. When you are foced to play Pods in RF, you are bound for trouble. The problem isn't so much the bench players. It's your key players like Thome, Quentin, and Ramierz not hitting. Sure, Thome got the big hit on Friday, but his .229 average isn't looking too good right now. The state of the team sucks right now, but **** happens. How about these so called key guys stepping up.


We are missing one key player. ONE!!!

I never imagined the day we would be shedding tears for greats like Dewayne Wise and Brian Anderson.

SoxGirl4Life
05-04-2009, 11:04 PM
I love this old time Sox fan on the post game show. Keep things in perspective.

Noneck
05-04-2009, 11:06 PM
You are not going to string 4-5 hits off a guy like Greinke. You are not. Especially with the bottom of the order.



That was my point, 5 guys in a row to scratch and claw, but only 1 hit and run and nothing else.

Tragg
05-04-2009, 11:07 PM
There is a reason why they are bench players. If they were good enough to start, they would be starting on other teams. When most teams lose key players, they are going to suffer. When you are foced to play Pods in RF, you are bound for trouble. The problem isn't so much the bench players. .
That's the point - when you go to the bench we get Nix and Lillibridge, 2 backup infielders.
When the RedSox go to their bench, they get Baldelli.
That's night and day.
Tonight we had Nix, Betemit, Lilllibridge, Pods in the lineup. That's a problem.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 11:08 PM
Do you really not believe you can be angry at an individual coach and not at another?I don't get what you are saying at all. You read too much into posts. All I said was the 2005 excuse is done and I am starting look at Ozzie in a bad way. Walker is a good go to guy to blame but you can expect a hitting coach to make something good with crap. The Sox don't have crap so that means he is just doing something wrong. When they win 14-2 in a couple days I will be happy, but until then I think both coaches need some help.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 11:12 PM
They just showed Wilson Betemit's AB verus Greinke...... :rolling:


I think Betemit has already reached Mike Jackson (RP) level of bad for me.

jdm2662
05-04-2009, 11:18 PM
We are missing one key player. ONE!!!

I never imagined the day we would be shedding tears for greats like Dewayne Wise and Brian Anderson.

Dye and Fields don't count? They are starters. They may not be on the DL, but they weren't starting. With them out and most of lineup not hitting to begin with, you aren't going to score much.

Anderson was actually looking like somewhat of a major league hitter before he went down. After a horrible start, Wise started to hit here and there. I certainly wouldn't had minded either one or both filling until Dye is ready to come back. Pods in RF and Lilliridge in CF. :o:

jdm2662
05-04-2009, 11:18 PM
They just showed Wilson Betemit's AB verus Greinke...... :rolling:


I think Betemit has already reached Mike Jackson (RP) level of bad for me.

That's something we can agree on. I'm not a big fan of his..

Noneck
05-04-2009, 11:24 PM
At full strength this looks like about .500 club. But how many teams stay at full strength for a season?

This month they will play all their division rivals. A good measuring stick is ahead.

guillensdisciple
05-04-2009, 11:25 PM
The countdown for Gordon Beckham can't begin soon enough. We need youth like him and Getz to lead this team. A lead-off combo of Beckham and Getz would be a great force.

Beckham should play third.

I know this is kind of stupid, but I LOVE his hitting capabilities.

Gavin
05-04-2009, 11:26 PM
we lost by 3 runs

quentin, thome, and konerko went 0/11 with a 0.00 OBP

***** complaining about pods, lillebridge and betemit

guillensdisciple
05-04-2009, 11:26 PM
At full strength this looks like about .500 club. But how many teams stay at full strength for a season?

This month they will play all their division rivals. A good measuring stick is ahead.


I disagree, the White Sox were 2 games over when the injuries began, and now they have dropped to one game under. I believe we can be a good team at full strength.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 11:42 PM
we lost by 3 runs

quentin, thome, and konerko went 0/11 with a 0.00 OBP

***** complaining about pods, lillebridge and betemit

it takes 25 men to win a championship, why should those guy be allowed to suck?

doublem23
05-04-2009, 11:48 PM
I don't get what you are saying at all. You read too much into posts. All I said was the 2005 excuse is done and I am starting look at Ozzie in a bad way. Walker is a good go to guy to blame but you can expect a hitting coach to make something good with crap. The Sox don't have crap so that means he is just doing something wrong. When they win 14-2 in a couple days I will be happy, but until then I think both coaches need some help.

So you're saying you lack the ability to keep things in perspective over the course of a few days?

Gotcha.

BTW, weren't you the guy who gave up on the Texas series literally after the 1st out of the 1st game?

Noneck
05-04-2009, 11:49 PM
I disagree, the White Sox were 2 games over when the injuries began, and now they have dropped to one game under. I believe we can be a good team at full strength.

It is rare that a team can stay at full strength. Now you already have your 38 year DH who has a chronic back problem, now seems to have a chronic heel problem. You have the only player on the club and probably in the organization that can play CF with an injury that Harrelson said hurt him and affected him for 6 years. You have 2 of your 5 starters that are old and have been injured frequently over the last 2-3 years. Your 4th OFer has been basically injured for the past 3 1/2 years. The older Rfer that still crashes walls and dives for balls. The setup guy that was shut down last year with arm problems. Then you have your best player being the most hit batsman in baseball over the past 3 years.

I love your optimism but full strength is something we wont see much of.

oeo
05-05-2009, 12:07 AM
There is ZERO excuse for Lilibridge and Pods to not have bunt in each of their situations today.

I want the Ozzie clan here to come and defend this nonesense.

I want you to come here and try to defend what you just said. I missed half the game, but I seriously hope the "Pods situation" you're talking about was not the eighth inning. Pods was 2-for-2, we're down by three runs, and we have two on. Even after giving up an out (which you don't do when you're down by three), you still need a base hit, and that only at most means a 3-2 game. Yup, terrible move...

Seems like you were playing to not be shut out, Ozzie was playing to win. Giving up outs down by three to a pitcher that's been dealing all year? You can't be serious.

35th and Shields
05-05-2009, 12:12 AM
Is it just me or is this team starting to remind you of 07'?

oeo
05-05-2009, 12:14 AM
Is it just me or is this team starting to remind you of 07'?

If you mean having a ton of injuries and having to play scrubs as starters, then yes.

I'm losing all optimism for this season, and it's not the coaching staff or the injuries. It's mostly this pitching staff which has not been consistent. Yeah, it was good today, so it's not a topic of discussion, but the way this season is going, it will probably be an issue tomorrow.

Last year when we weren't hitting, at least we were getting phenomenal pitching. This year, the pitching has been up and down, and we can't even get good innings from our starters. Have we even had a starter get into the 8th inning yet this year?

Gavin
05-05-2009, 12:25 AM
it takes 25 men to win a championship, why should those guy be allowed to suck?

probably because not all 25 men have the same expectations.

no one should be "allowed" to suck, but I can at least expect it more from some of the 25

that's why they don't all get paid the same, right?

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 12:47 AM
I want you to come here and try to defend what you just said. I missed half the game, but I seriously hope the "Pods situation" you're talking about was not the eighth inning. Pods was 2-for-2, we're down by three runs, and we have two on. Even after giving up an out (which you don't do when you're down by three), you still need a base hit, and that only at most means a 3-2 game. Yup, terrible move...

Seems like you were playing to not be shut out, Ozzie was playing to win. Giving up outs down by three to a pitcher that's been dealing all year? You can't be serious.


Give me a break.:rolleyes:

You honestly can say with a straight face that since Pods was 2 for 3 on two very iffy hits he has earned the right to swing away in a tight ball game with 2 on and no one out? This is Scott ****ing Podsednik we are talking about here. A guy who was out of baseball just 2-3 weeks ago.

It's this mentality which makes the Sox a very dumb baseball team. We look damn good when we clear the fences, but damn we look dumb when playing from behind in what ended up being a very well pitched game by both sides.

You have to score one run before you can score 3, am I right?

oeo
05-05-2009, 01:01 AM
Give me a break.:rolleyes:

You honestly can say with a straight face that since Pods was 2 for 3 on two very iffy hits he has earned the right to swing away in a tight ball game with 2 on and no one out? This is Scott ****ing Podsednik we are talking about here. A guy who was out of baseball just 2-3 weeks ago.

It's this mentality which makes the Sox a very dumb baseball team. We look damn good when we clear the fences, but damn we look dumb when playing from behind in what ended up being a very well pitched game by both sides.

You have to score one run before you can score 3, am I right?

6 outs left, you don't give any away. I have the wrong mentality? :lol:

Chalk it up to lack of execution, or uh...Greinke being the best pitcher in the game right now. Down by three runs, with six outs remaining, yes, you swing away. With the way Greinke is pitching, putting two guys in scoring position means very little and when you're down by THREE and not two or one, you have no reason to help him out.

And BTW, it doesn't matter that it was Scott Podsednik. He swung the bat well on this particular night, when not many did. Plus, he had Brent Lillibridge behind him, not Quentin, Thome, Dye, or Konerko. Cool, you pinch hit Wilson, but he hasn't seen Greinke...that's a tough spot.

kittle42
05-05-2009, 01:02 AM
6 outs left, you don't give any away. I have the wrong mentality? :lol:

2-0, and I agree with LYS. 3-0, I agree with you.

Average Homeboy
05-05-2009, 01:05 AM
Konerko should never face Greinke again, in his career.

Richard stole 2, possibly 3 balks out there.

Colon pitched worlds better than I expected.

oeo
05-05-2009, 01:14 AM
2-0, and I agree with LYS. 3-0, I agree with you.

I agree, and said as much. Even then, it's tough to give up that out with two things in mind:

1)The one guy that has actually hit the guy well in your lineup is the one who's giving up himself. I don't care that it was Scott Podsednik...he was 2-for-2, and that can't be ignored.
2)Greinke isn't giving up runs, period. You put two guys in scoring position, cool. Greinke isn't going to give them up, he's a ****ing beast right now.

Although, a 2-0 game and runners on second and third may have made the signal to the bullpen.

guillensdisciple
05-05-2009, 01:18 AM
Konerko should never face Greinke again, in his career.

Richard stole 2, possibly 3 balks out there.

Colon pitched worlds better than I expected.

Konerko was the only one who made solid contact on him all night.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2009, 01:19 AM
I agree, and said as much. Even then, it's tough to give up that out with two things in mind:

1)The one guy that has actually hit the guy well in your lineup is the one who's giving up himself. I don't care that it was Scott Podsednik...he was 2-for-2, and that can't be ignored.
2)Greinke isn't giving up runs, period. You put two guys in scoring position, cool. Greinke isn't going to give them up, he's a ****ing beast right now.

Although, a 2-0 game and runners on second and third may have made the signal to the bullpen.

I think though another thing to be factored in that equation was who was coming up next in the lineup. If you have a guy like Getz or someone who puts the ball in play or a guy like Paulie who has some power, then it becomes tricky because a fly ball or a ground ball can make it a one run game. But if you have a guy like Lillebridge of Betemit who appear to be just flaying away and are less likely to put the ball in play, are you better served with having runners at second and third and one out? A strike out won't do anything and then you're relying on a two out hit from the top of the order.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 01:21 AM
6 outs left, you don't give any away. I have the wrong mentality? :lol:

Chalk it up to lack of execution, or uh...Greinke being the best pitcher in the game right now. Down by three runs, with six outs remaining, yes, you swing away. With the way Greinke is pitching, putting two guys in scoring position means very little and when you're down by THREE and not two or one, you have no reason to help him out.

And BTW, it doesn't matter that it was Scott Podsednik. He swung the bat well on this particular night, when not many did. Plus, he had Brent Lillibridge behind him, not Quentin, Thome, Dye, or Konerko. Cool, you pinch hit Wilson, but he hasn't seen Greinke...that's a tough spot.

OK, we are going disagree.

9th inning, I'm 100% with you. You have 3 bullets to work with.

8th inning, no way. I am busting my ass to find a way to get those two guys in scorring position and take my chances, especially with someone I consider an above average bunter but a bad ML hitter (Pods). You said it best, it's Cy Greinke. You don't score 3-4-5 runs off that guy in one shot. You have to pluck away at him. Get one here, get two there, and try to get one in the ninth. At that point, you might be lucky to face Soria in a 3-1 or 3-2 game. Soria is a very hittable closer.

So being that you are already excusing Guillen, what's the excuse for not bunting Lilibridge in the 6th inning after Pods lead off with a double? Why, you can't waste one your 12 outs left?

If the Sox were to ever have played small ball, tonight was the night to do it. They had the right personel on the bases and at the plate to get it done. More important, they had a Bus on the mound who pretty much teams will find out that the only way to beat this guy is to play for 1 run at a time.

oeo
05-05-2009, 01:24 AM
So being that you are already excusing Guillen, what's the excuse for not bunting Lilibridge in the 6th inning after Pods lead off with a double? Why, you can't waste one your 12 outs left?

Like I said before, I didn't watch half the game (24 was on). I didn't see this, which is why I didn't comment on it.

If the Sox were to ever have played small ball, tonight was the night to do it. They had the right personel on the bases and at the plate to get it done. More important, they had a Bus on the mound who pretty much teams will find out that the only way to beat this guy is to play for 1 run at a time.

Did they have the right personnel, though? I think Lillibridge is just a terrible all around hitter. Ozzie put on a hit-and-run the first time Pods got on, and he ended up whiffing at a hanging breaking ball. Should Ozzie go up there and swing the bat for him, too?

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2009, 01:26 AM
OK, we are going disagree.

9th inning, I'm 100% with you. You have 3 bullets to work with.

8th inning, no way. I am busting my ass to find a way to get those two guys in scorring position and take my chances, especially with someone I consider an above average bunter but a bad ML hitter (Pods). You said it best, it's Cy Greinke. You don't score 3-4-5 runs off that guy in one shot. You have to pluck away at him. Get one here, get two there, and try to get one in the ninth. At that point, you might be lucky to face Soria in a 3-1 or 3-2 game. Soria is a very hittable closer.

So being that you are already excusing Guillen, what's the excuse for not bunting Lilibridge in the 6th inning after Pods lead off with a double? Why, you can't waste one your 12 outs left?

If the Sox were to ever have played small ball, tonight was the night to do it. They had the right personel on the bases and at the plate to get it done. More important, they had a Bus on the mound who pretty much teams will find out that the only way to beat this guy is to play for 1 run at a time.

I didn't see that, but Lillebridge should have been bunting as he has little hope of getting a hit against Grenke.

As for having Pods bunt in the 8th, ok, if he does that then you are still relying on Lillebridge or Betemit to then at least make contact with Grenke to drive in just ONE of those runs. I don't think they can do that. Even if they do, it is probably nothing more than a sac fly in which case you now have 4 outs to score two runs against either Grenke or Soria who can be down right nasty at times.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 01:26 AM
I agree, and said as much. Even then, it's tough to give up that out with two things in mind:

1)The one guy that has actually hit the guy well in your lineup is the one who's giving up himself. I don't care that it was Scott Podsednik...he was 2-for-2, and that can't be ignored.
2)Greinke isn't giving up runs, period. You put two guys in scoring position, cool. Greinke isn't going to give them up, he's a ****ing beast right now.

Although, a 2-0 game and runners on second and third may have made the signal to the bullpen.


What game were you watching? Honestly.

You are making it sound like Pods hit two balls to the warning track on a line.

His first hit was a mis played ball by the 2B and then his second one (the double) was also a mis-played ball by the 1B.

Quit reading a box score to analyze what happend in the game.

Average Homeboy
05-05-2009, 01:27 AM
Konerko was the only one who made solid contact on him all night.

He's 5-for-42 (.119) in his career against Greinke, with 12 strikeouts, and 6 walks.

oeo
05-05-2009, 01:28 AM
What game were you watching? Honestly.

You are making it sound like Pods hit two balls to the warning track on a line.

His first hit was a mis played ball by the 2B and then his second one (the double) was also a mis-played ball by the 1B.

Quit reading a box score to analyze what happend in the game.

Oh please. I didn't see his second hit, but the first one he hit hard. Even if it is fielded, and the play is made, he would have been robbed.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2009, 01:29 AM
What game were you watching? Honestly.

You are making it sound like Pods hit two balls to the warning track on a line.

His first hit was a mis played ball by the 2B and then his second one (the double) was also a mis-played ball by the 1B.

Quit reading a box score to analyze what happend in the game.

Even a dinky little hit gets you at worst bases loaded with nobody out and at that point they HAVE to call the bullpen. It might even get you a run with nobody out. Move the guys over you're still down by three with now five outs to get those three runs and either Lillebridge or Betemit are now forced to make somewhat solid contact off of Greinke, I don't like the odds of that. Now if the top of the order were due up, then I think there is a stronger argument for having Pods bunt as I have some degree of faith in them making contact. I have little faith in either Betemit or Lillebridge making contact in a clutch situation.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 01:31 AM
I didn't see that, but Lillebridge should have been bunting as he has little hope of getting a hit against Grenke.

As for having Pods bunt in the 8th, ok, if he does that then you are still relying on Lillebridge or Betemit to then at least make contact with Grenke to drive in just ONE of those runs. I don't think they can do that. Even if they do, it is probably nothing more than a sac fly in which case you now have 4 outs to score two runs against either Grenke or Soria who can be down right nasty at times.


It's easier to come back from 2 runs than it is from 3.

Also, 2nd and 3rd, the pitch selection changes by Olivo and Greinke. Betemit or Lilibridge might see an extra fastball or two because of the potential wild pitch.


Just give yourself a chance to get back in the ball game. That's all I'm asking for. Make an effort and stop sitting and waiting for the big inning. That trick has become old the last 3-4 seasons.

oeo
05-05-2009, 01:33 AM
It's easier to come back from 2 runs than it is from 3.

Also, 2nd and 3rd, the pitch selection changes by Olivo and Greinke. Betemit or Lilibridge might see an extra fastball or two because of the potential wild pitch.


Just give yourself a chance to get back in the ball game. That's all I'm asking for. Make an effort and stop sitting and waiting for the big inning. That trick has become old the last 3-4 seasons.

Once again, it sounds a lot like you're playing to not be shut out, instead of winning the game. The Sox were in the game, they were only down by three. They were not waiting for the big inning, they were merely running out of outs.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 01:35 AM
Oh please. I didn't see his second hit, but the first one he hit hard. Even if it is fielded, and the play is made, he would have been robbed.


Hawk and Steve had just made mentioned about the lack of range the Royals have up the middle, Callaspo made a Jeff Kent effort on tha ball Podz hit. People actually even boooed because they felt it cost Greinke a possible no hitter that early in the game.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 01:40 AM
Once again, it sounds a lot like you're playing to not be shut out, instead of winning the game. The Sox were in the game, they were only down by three. They were not waiting for the big inning, they were merely running out of outs.


No, I was playing to get two RISP and hope for a miracle single somewhere to get 2 in and get us back in it to 3-2.


But who cares anyway. It's over. I'm asking for this team to re-invent the wheel. I'll just keep ejoying the 16" softball they play in order to win games.

Lost in all this, big kudos to Colon tonight. Pods played like **** on the field and cost him a bit. But he showed tonight that his velocity is slowly coming back. Thank God because with Contreras, we cant' afford to be searching for two starters.

oeo
05-05-2009, 01:40 AM
Hawk and Steve had just made mentioned about the lack of range the Royals have up the middle, Callaspo made a Jeff Kent effort on tha ball Podz hit. People actually even boooed because they felt it cost Greinke a possible no hitter that early in the game.

It was hit hard, which means he put a good swing on it. That's my point. I didn't see his second hit, but by the way you think Pods should have been out (in your mind) means he didn't get good wood on it, I'm not sure if I trust your judgment. It was probably a screaming liner. :lol:

Average Homeboy
05-05-2009, 01:44 AM
Hawk and Steve had just made mentioned about the lack of range the Royals have up the middle, Callaspo made a Jeff Kent effort on tha ball Podz hit. People actually even boooed because they felt it cost Greinke a possible no hitter that early in the game.

Callaspo has already made several poor plays in the field, but he's only been charged with 1 error.

Foulke You
05-05-2009, 01:53 AM
Is it just me or is this team starting to remind you of 07'?
Not even close. The biggest flaw of the 2007 club was its bullpen and the 2009 Sox have a pretty solid bullpen so far. The reserves playing in the starting lineup is a similarity to '07 but the guys they replaced are coming back soon. Both Dye and Fields should be back in any day now. Anderson and Wise will be back in a couple weeks. The current club is banged up but so far, there isn't any season ending type of injuries like we had in 2007.

It's a 3 game losing streak guys. Teams will have this during a 162 game season. That being said, the team is in a terrible offensive funk right now. Is it me or does it seem we are a bit snake bit recently too? Perhaps it is just frustration as a fan setting in for me but it seems like when guys like Quentin and Konerko put solid wood on the ball lately it is going right to an outfielder and all our opponents do is put the bat on the ball and every grounder is finding a hole. I noticed this in Texas as well.

KMcMahon817
05-05-2009, 02:01 AM
Not even close. The biggest flaw of the 2007 club was its bullpen and the 2009 Sox have a pretty solid bullpen so far. The reserves playing in the starting lineup is a similarity to '07 but the guys they replaced are coming back soon. Both Dye and Fields should be back in any day now. Anderson and Wise will be back in a couple weeks. The current club is banged up but so far, there isn't any season ending type of injuries like we had in 2007.

It's a 3 game losing streak guys. Teams will have this during a 162 game season. That being said, the team is in a terrible offensive funk right now. Is it me or does it seem we are a bit snake bit recently too? Perhaps it is just frustration as a fan setting in for me but it seems like when guys like Quentin and Konerko put solid wood on the ball lately it is going right to an outfielder and all our opponents do is put the bat on the ball and every grounder is finding a hole. I noticed this in Texas as well.


Thank you, alot of you need a bit more faith. Its May 4th, we need a good week, don't get me wrong, but its early May. BA will be back in a couple weeks, and with Dye and Fields back at 100% everything will be fine. Relax Relax Relax

Average Homeboy
05-05-2009, 02:10 AM
Thank you, alot of you need a bit more faith. Its May 4th, we need a good week, don't get me wrong, but its early May. BA will be back in a couple weeks, and with Dye and Fields back at 100% everything will be fine. Relax Relax Relax

Agreed. The Sox were 14-11 last year at this point. 12-13 is right there, especially considering the injuries.

JB98
05-05-2009, 02:49 AM
I'd like to tip my cap to Grienke. But unfortunately, my thumb and forefinger are still sore from tipping my cap to Brian Bergesen, Adam Eaton, Brian Tallet and Matt Harrison.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2009, 03:09 AM
I'd like to tip my cap to Grienke. But unfortunately, my thumb and forefinger are still sore from tipping my cap to Brian Bergesen, Adam Eaton, Brian Tallet and Matt Harrison.


:hawk
That rotation is going to win you a lot games, mercy!

veeter
05-05-2009, 07:01 AM
Quentin coming back is not guaranteed. While I think he will, and hope he does, I don't see why we should think that he will come back to monster status. That was one year- many people have those.The guy has lined out about 15 times this year. I think he'll be fine.

TomBradley72
05-05-2009, 09:18 AM
4 of our starters last night are hitting .233 or lower (Quentin, Thome, Ramirez and Lillibridge)....the real problem isn't our bench players it's our starters...if those three guys aren't hitting combined with no Dye, Fields or Anderson...we're not going to win very often. Lillibridge is in over his head...I'm sure he's on his way to Charlotte when BA comes back.

When's the last time we took an early lead in a game?

asindc
05-05-2009, 09:27 AM
That's the point - when you go to the bench we get Nix and Lillibridge, 2 backup infielders.
When the RedSox go to their bench, they get Baldelli.
That's night and day.
Tonight we had Nix, Betemit, Lilllibridge, Pods in the lineup. That's a problem.

When the Sox is operating with the same payroll that Boston does, then I will expect the Sox to have a Baldelli on the bench instead of Betemit (who I don't like as a player, BTW, but I agree that Swisher had to go).

oeo
05-05-2009, 09:38 AM
When the Sox is operating with the same payroll that Boston does, then I will expect the Sox to have a Baldelli on the bench instead of Betemit (who I don't like as a player, BTW, but I agree that Swisher had to go).

And the problem with going to Baldelli is: can you go to Baldelli? The guy can't stay healthy, he's already having problems this year.

jabrch
05-05-2009, 09:49 AM
I'd like to tip my cap to Grienke. But unfortunately, my thumb and forefinger are still sore from tipping my cap to Brian Bergesen, Adam Eaton, Brian Tallet and Matt Harrison.


And the same happens for major league baseball teams EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 10:25 AM
And the same happens for major league baseball teams EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

No, not really since Bergensen's ERA minus his outing vs. the Sox is 7.20. Eaton's ERA minus his domination of the Sox is 9.00. Brian Tallet, who shut out the Sox for nearly 6 IP has an ERA over 7 in games not against the Sox.

Meanwhile, only 1 team in the American League is scoring fewer runs per game than the Sox. Keep preaching your company line, apologist bull****, there is something seriously wrong with our offense right now. We suck.

kittle42
05-05-2009, 11:36 AM
Keep preaching your company line, apologist bull****, there is something seriously wrong with our offense right now. We suck.

The weather is still too cold. 90+ degrees or bust!

hawkjt
05-05-2009, 12:07 PM
I hate that we play the Royals nine straight times at KC early in the year...when they still have hope and are playing well.

When they do their post all-star fade, we get them at Soxpark...and the twins will beat them at KC...not good.

So far, we have not missed the halladays and greinkes...just not our luck.

Jurr
05-05-2009, 12:17 PM
No, not really since Bergensen's ERA minus his outing vs. the Sox is 7.20. Eaton's ERA minus his domination of the Sox is 9.00. Brian Tallet, who shut out the Sox for nearly 6 IP has an ERA over 7 in games not against the Sox.

Meanwhile, only 1 team in the American League is scoring fewer runs per game than the Sox. Keep preaching your company line, apologist bull****, there is something seriously wrong with our offense right now. We suck.
Thank you. Would it be so terrible to have an offense built around line drives, opposite field hitting, a few stolen bases sprinkled in, some sacrifices, and early leads? Could we give a pitcher something to worry about besides "he could hit the ball out of the park"?

As has been said a million times, Kenny Williams bragged in his championship video about wanting to build a team around fundamental ball and how he wanted to show everyone how serious he was about it. They bragged about "getting rid of players that didn't fit the mold". They even put up video of Lee, Maggs, and Valentin hitting homers.

You can say, "the Sox won a WS because of pitching", and you would be correct. However, it all goes hand in hand. If you can manufacture an early lead CONSISTENTLY, you will put pressure on a pitcher. With an early lead, your pitcher can perform under a more relaxed mindset. If an opposing pitcher only has to worry about hitting the mitt with the ball, he gets into a groove and shuts you down. This team has NO versatility offensively. The players that can be versatile are still too damn young to produce consistently.

Meanwhile, our pitchers are getting singled and doubled to death, and they're just hoping and praying that this is the night where they get the 4 homer barrage from the offense.

From 2000-2009, there has been ONE YEAR that the team changed its offensive philosophy. Otherwise, it has been a slower middle of the lineup that favors power numbers over average. Like Rogers Hornsby said, "players care more about how far they hit it than how many times they hit it".

This offense gets shut down by unproven pitchers because the guy, for the first time all year, gets to concentrate on getting the guy at the plate out and nothing else. If he keeps the ball in the park, he wins. The Sox cannot win a championship with this offensive approach and philosophy.

jabrch
05-05-2009, 12:20 PM
No, not really

Really? Baseball teams don't struggle sometimes, even against crappy pitchers? I must watch a different game than you.


Meanwhile, only 1 team in the American League is scoring fewer runs per game than the Sox....there is something seriously wrong with our offense right now. We suck.

Nobody is disputing that. But let's discuss what is wrong with the offense, not point fingers at red herring for fun.


Keep preaching your company line, apologist bull****,

Stay Classy Dubs! Name calling in insults aren't becoming of you. I'd figure you and I can have a baseball discussion without degrading to that. If that's not the case, let me know.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 12:23 PM
No, not really since Bergensen's ERA minus his outing vs. the Sox is 7.20. Eaton's ERA minus his domination of the Sox is 9.00. Brian Tallet, who shut out the Sox for nearly 6 IP has an ERA over 7 in games not against the Sox.

Meanwhile, only 1 team in the American League is scoring fewer runs per game than the Sox. Keep preaching your company line, apologist bull****, there is something seriously wrong with our offense right now. We suck.


PREACH IT BROTHER, PREACH IT!!!!! :gulp:

Did someone hack into Doublem's account? :tongue:

Soxman219
05-05-2009, 12:25 PM
I don't care how we do it, we need a win tonight.

oeo
05-05-2009, 12:27 PM
Once again, why is tonight a night game? Does this team ever get a day game get-away day?

doublem23
05-05-2009, 12:32 PM
Once again, why is tonight a night game? Does this team ever get a day game get-away day?

A flight from Kansas City to Chicago is takes 1:30. They're big boys, and they're not flying coach. I'm sure they can handle it.

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 12:33 PM
Once again, why is tonight a night game? Does this team ever get a day game get-away day?


The Sox are traveling within the same time zone, KC has the right to host a night game (which is always better attendance for any team during the school year).

oeo
05-05-2009, 12:33 PM
A flight from Kansas City to Chicago is takes 1:30. They're big boys, and they're not flying coach. I'm sure they can handle it.

What if it goes extra innings? Either way, they're going to get home late again...it wears on you. There's no reason for it to be a night game. :shrug:

BTW, I'm more talking about all the night get-away days we have, not just this one in particular.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 12:34 PM
There's no reason for it to be a night game. :shrug:

Tell that to the Royals' accountants.

The Sox are forcing Detroit to play a night game Thursday, even though the Tigers have to jet to Cleveland after the game.

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2009, 12:37 PM
I don't believe this offense can overcome the presence of Nix, Lillibridge, and Podsednik in the same lineup, but I do believe we will start winning some games and scoring enough runs (say, 4-5 rather than 0-2) when Carlos heats up.

Currently, Carlos' BABIP stands at a robust .186. Carlos is hitting way more line drives than last season (when he hit a ton of flyballs), which is encouraging. He will heat up soon.

Like Kittle, my beef is with Kenny Williams. Nick Swisher is ****ing raking right now, and would look great rotating in and out of this lineup. Jabs and the company line bunch can tell me it's too much money for a guy coming off the bench, but 400 ABs for Swisher would be quite worth it right now.

oeo
05-05-2009, 12:38 PM
Tell that to the Royals' accountants.

The Sox are forcing Detroit to play a night game Thursday, even though the Tigers have to jet to Cleveland after the game.

Well maybe they're up all over the league. It just seems odd that get-away day seems to have become get-away night this year.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Well maybe they're up all over the league. It just seems odd that get-away day seems to have become get-away night this year.

I really don't think it'll be a problem. Now, if you're playing in Seattle one night and in Tampa the next, that may cause some problems, but a 90-minute flight, in the same time zone, on a private, chartered plane?

I'm sure they'll survive. :cool:

LoveYourSuit
05-05-2009, 01:01 PM
I don't believe this offense can overcome the presence of Nix, Lillibridge, and Podsednik in the same lineup, but I do believe we will start winning some games and scoring enough runs (say, 4-5 rather than 0-2) when Carlos heats up.

Currently, Carlos' BABIP stands at a robust .186. Carlos is hitting way more line drives than last season (when he hit a ton of flyballs), which is encouraging. He will heat up soon.

Like Kittle, my beef is with Kenny Williams. Nick Swisher is ****ing raking right now, and would look great rotating in and out of this lineup. Jabs and the company line bunch can tell me it's too much money for a guy coming off the bench, but 400 ABs for Swisher would be quite worth it right now.

Not only that. How about the fact that you got nothing in return that would help your current team right now.

Swisher's attitude was a problem, but I also have to look at it from his perspective where he couldn't get on the field last year at times behind Wise and Anderson. Then add Griffey to the mix, say what you want to say, Griffey did not bring anything special to the team last year.

Brian26
05-05-2009, 02:14 PM
Like Kittle, my beef is with Kenny Williams. Nick Swisher is ****ing raking right now, and would look great rotating in and out of this lineup. Jabs and the company line bunch can tell me it's too much money for a guy coming off the bench, but 400 ABs for Swisher would be quite worth it right now.

That's nothing but 20/20 hindsight though. Swisher played like death the last month and a half of the season. Even more, there was nowhere for him to play since Thome's contract became vested for '09. KW cut his losses, and the move made sense.

I'm not convinced Swisher continues at this pace. He's something like a career .240 hitter.

WhiteSox5187
05-05-2009, 02:22 PM
That's nothing but 20/20 hindsight though. Swisher played like death the last month and a half of the season. Even more, there was nowhere for him to play since Thome's contract became vested for '09. KW cut his losses, and the move made sense.

I'm not convinced Swisher continues at this pace. He's something like a career .240 hitter.

How soon we forget that he got off to a good April for us last year too. Really other than a decent April and a good June, he sucked and then whined when he wasn't playing.

JB98
05-05-2009, 02:29 PM
4 of our starters last night are hitting .233 or lower (Quentin, Thome, Ramirez and Lillibridge)....the real problem isn't our bench players it's our starters...if those three guys aren't hitting combined with no Dye, Fields or Anderson...we're not going to win very often. Lillibridge is in over his head...I'm sure he's on his way to Charlotte when BA comes back.

When's the last time we took an early lead in a game?

The last time would be the first game of the Seattle doubleheader, when the Sox got two in the fourth and won 2-1.

Of course, the Sox scored the second time through the batting order in that game. The offense the first time through the batting order has been horrendous all year. They haven't been able to generate much of anything in the first and second innings.

Average Homeboy
05-05-2009, 02:53 PM
I hate that we play the Royals nine straight times at KC early in the year...when they still have hope and are playing well.

When they do their post all-star fade, we get them at Soxpark...and the twins will beat them at KC...not good.
We can't be sure that is going to happen. These aren't the '03 Royals...

What if it goes extra innings? Either way, they're going to get home late again...it wears on you. There's no reason for it to be a night game. :shrug:
When was the last time they (MLB) had a Tuesday day-game?

kittle42
05-05-2009, 02:55 PM
When was the last time they (MLB) had a Tuesday day-game?

There are five today.

Average Homeboy
05-05-2009, 02:56 PM
There are five today.
Interesting...

Craig Grebeck
05-05-2009, 04:38 PM
That's nothing but 20/20 hindsight though. Swisher played like death the last month and a half of the season. Even more, there was nowhere for him to play since Thome's contract became vested for '09. KW cut his losses, and the move made sense.

I'm not convinced Swisher continues at this pace. He's something like a career .240 hitter.
It is not retrospective for those who thought he'd rebound.

doublem23
05-05-2009, 04:44 PM
It is not retrospective for those who thought he'd rebound.

Yeah, but is he rebounding because he's playing a comfortable position? Who would you move to accomodate Swisher; Quentin, Dye, Konerko, Thome? Even the most ardent of Swisher supporters would be crazy to try and defend any of those moves this off-season, especially considering aside from Quentin, he was the most movable.

The Swisher situation went bad for the Sox when Quentin became a entrenched at LF last year. It's easy to blame KW for the whole ordeal in hindsight, but really nobody, nobody expected Quentin to blossom into the hitter he's become.