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View Full Version : *Official* You dont weigh in you dont wrassle 5/3 Postgame


BadBobbyJenks
05-03-2009, 11:10 PM
Lineup looked bad on paper and worse in live action. Discuss.

DirtySox
05-03-2009, 11:12 PM
I hope the injured get well soon.

veeter
05-03-2009, 11:13 PM
How can Ozzie find a way to play Getz and Nix at the same time? I'm just glad to be out of Texas. I hate that place. Wilson Betemit is the worst major league fielder I've ever seen. Let's beat Grienke tomorrow.

JB98
05-03-2009, 11:15 PM
While I'd like to complain about Getz being out of the lineup, I thought Nix played well tonight. While I'd like to complain about Thome being out of the lineup, at least Betemit got a couple hits.

Really, Fields and Quentin failed to produce in the fifth, and that's what killed us.

And as I mentioned in the gamethread, I didn't like Miller being allowed to hit in the eighth against a tough right-hander with all that left-handed thump left on the bench.

You go with A.J. or Thome there in that spot and try to get back in the game.

manders_01
05-03-2009, 11:16 PM
There have certainly been better games for the Sox. Get 'em next time boys!

drewcifer
05-03-2009, 11:16 PM
How can Ozzie find a way to play Getz and Nix at the same time? I'm just glad to be out of Texas. I hate that place. Wilson Betemit is the worst major league fielder I've ever seen. Let's beat Grienke tomorrow.

He was the only man hitting? He's a ****ty first baseman, no question... Man, that grab and throw by Nix was gem worthy, but he's the only guy hitting tonight. Did you watch?

veeter
05-03-2009, 11:18 PM
He was the only man hitting? He's a ****ty first baseman, no question... Man, that grab and throw by Nix was gem worthy, but he's the only guy hitting tonight. Did you watch?That's why I said major league FIELDER!!!!!!!!

kruzer31
05-03-2009, 11:18 PM
Besides Quentin, the whole team looked like they could care less that they had a game to play, even Ozzie seemed like he was out of it as well while being interviewed. Terrible effort.

Betimit is a fat donkey who can't bend over to catch a throw.

Can we get some "stones" and retaliate. Fields gets hit with a fastball on the hand to go along with Dye yesturday and PK being hit I believe twice. Danks should have drilled Kinsler leading off the game right in the ribs. Instead of leading off the game with a homer, he would be at first. Oh well, just frustrated that we showed no heart

JEFF

hawkjt
05-03-2009, 11:18 PM
clutch hitting tonite.
As usual,if we do not get free passes we struggle to put a lot of men on bases. Greinke tomorrow?...not very optimistic.

drewcifer
05-03-2009, 11:18 PM
While I'd like to complain about Getz being out of the lineup, I thought Nix played well tonight. While I'd like to complain about Thome being out of the lineup, at least Betemit got a couple hits.

Really, Fields and Quentin failed to produce in the fifth, and that's what killed us.

And as I mentioned in the gamethread, I didn't like Miller being allowed to hit in the eighth against a tough right-hander with all that left-handed thump left on the bench.

You go with A.J. or Thome there in that spot and try to get back in the game.

They both should have been in after the 5th when their man hit his 100 pitch mark and got pulled. Totally agree with you. Washington was very smart tonight. His 7+ ERA guy got a taste of success and he did a marvelous job (both pitcher and mgr).

JB98
05-03-2009, 11:19 PM
Besides Quentin, the whole team looked like they could care less that they had a game to play, even Ozzie seemed like he was out of it as well while being interviewed. Terrible effort.

Betimit is a fat donkey who can't bend over to catch a throw.

Can we get some "stones" and retaliate. Fields gets hit with a fastball on the hand to go along with Dye yesturday and PK being hit I believe twice. Danks should have drilled Kinsler leading off the game right in the ribs. Instead of leading off the game with a homer, he would be at first. Oh well, just frustrated that we showed no heart

JEFF

The lack of retaliation for the HBPs frustrates me as well.

WhiteSox5187
05-03-2009, 11:19 PM
The failure to score in the fifth ended this game. Once we failed to bring in a single run, I just turned off the TV because I knew how this would end. I'd like to blame Fields for his failure, but the ump calling strike two on the exact same pitch that he had previously called a ball led to Fields striking out. As for Quentin in that spot, I think he put a bit too much pressure on himself as he is wont to do.

Betemit while good at the plate is an absolute butcher in the field, but I think that's been established.

Finally, I'm getting sick of seeing Lillebridge. He was almost caught at first base taking too big of a turn twice in the eighth; while the kid obviously has some talent, I just don't think he belongs on the major league roster. Get him at bats every day in Charlotte.

guillensdisciple
05-03-2009, 11:20 PM
Just paying attention to Quentin right now- he is the only one that has me worried.

veeter
05-03-2009, 11:21 PM
Besides Quentin, the whole team looked like they could care less that they had a game to play, even Ozzie seemed like he was out of it as well while being interviewed. Terrible effort.

Betimit is a fat donkey who can't bend over to catch a throw.

Can we get some "stones" and retaliate. Fields gets hit with a fastball on the hand to go along with Dye yesturday and PK being hit I believe twice. Danks should have drilled Kinsler leading off the game right in the ribs. Instead of leading off the game with a homer, he would be at first. Oh well, just frustrated that we showed no heart

JEFFI agree, accidental or not the Sox are getting hit. And it always seems to happen against Texas. Ozzie used to tell guys to retaliate, and scream at them if they wouldn't. Someone on Texas should have hit the ground.

JB98
05-03-2009, 11:23 PM
The failure to score in the fifth ended this game. Once we failed to bring in a single run, I just turned off the TV because I knew how this would end. I'd like to blame Fields for his failure, but the ump calling strike two on the exact same pitch that he had previously called a ball led to Fields striking out. As for Quentin in that spot, I think he put a bit too much pressure on himself as he is wont to do.

Betemit while good at the plate is an absolute butcher in the field, but I think that's been established.

Finally, I'm getting sick of seeing Lillebridge. He was almost caught at first base taking too big of a turn twice in the eighth; while the kid obviously has some talent, I just don't think he belongs on the major league roster. Get him at bats every day in Charlotte.

You have to believe that's what they'll do with Lillibridge when Anderson comes off the DL. BA and Pods will share CF. Nix will back up the middle infield, and Lillibridge can go work on his offensive woes in Charlotte.

thomas35forever
05-03-2009, 11:24 PM
A craptastic performance tonight with Walkerball at its finest. Just forget it and find ways to throw KC off their game at home.

drewcifer
05-03-2009, 11:28 PM
That's why I said major league FIELDER!!!!!!!!

Ok, but at least he put up his hits.

Shouldn't have been playing 1st anyway. Fields should've never stayed in this game. If PK were there, that game is 3-0 and we are still in it, with a new batter (maybe Thome).

palehozenychicty
05-03-2009, 11:32 PM
This team just never plays well in Arlington. I'll take one win and move on.

Brian26
05-03-2009, 11:37 PM
Besides Quentin, the whole team looked like they could care less that they had a game to play, even Ozzie seemed like he was out of it as well while being interviewed. Terrible effort.

It seemed like the ESPN guys were completely unprepared for the interview by asking two stupid questions, and Ozzie was just taken aback.

First they questioned whether Ozzie thought the team was getting back to a style of relying on homeruns after the smartball 2005 team won the World Series. That question is wrong on so many levels. The 2005 team won with the homerun, but they just happened to have more speed and better pitching that the Sox teams from earlier in the decade. It seemed like the 08 team got away from smartball since they had absolutely no speed in their station-to-station play, but this year's team actually is much more well-rounded and is not relying on the homer as much. The question they asked would have been more suited for a Sox game from last year.

Then they asked Ozzie about the gaping hole at the leadoff spot, which has actually been filled quite nicely by Getz for the past two weeks.

drewcifer
05-03-2009, 11:40 PM
It seemed like the ESPN guys were completely unprepared for the interview by asking two stupid questions, and Ozzie was just taken aback.

First they questioned whether Ozzie thought the team was getting back to a style of relying on homeruns after the smartball 2005 team won the World Series. That question is wrong on so many levels. The 2005 team won with the homerun, but they just happened to have more speed and better pitching that the Sox teams from earlier in the decade. It seemed like the 08 team got away from smartball since they had absolutely no speed in their station-to-station play, but this year's team actually is much more well-rounded and is not relying on the homer as much. The question they asked would have been more suited for a Sox game from last year.

Then they asked Ozzie about the gaping hole at the leadoff spot, which has actually been filled quite nicely by Getz for the past two weeks.

Ozzie should have corrected them. You are actually 100% right, and when I heard it, I was waiting for him to point out how important the HR was to that team.

But he didn't.

Fail.

hi im skot
05-03-2009, 11:49 PM
Ozzie should have corrected them. You are actually 100% right, and when I heard it, I was waiting for him to point out how important the HR was to that team.

But he didn't.

Fail.

Shame on Ozzie. It's like he was preoccupied with that damn baseball game he was managing or something.



:cool:

Lillian
05-03-2009, 11:51 PM
Are some of you Nix detractors beginning to figure out why Sox management likes him? He is supposed to be about as good as they come as a defensive second baseman. That show he put on tonight was a pretty good demonstration of why he has that reputation. I understand that he also has plenty of talent with the bat, but has had a habit of trying to hit too much for power. Let's hope that he just tries to make contact, and doesn't over swing.

I love Getz, and of course Beckham is going to be the future, but I hope we get a chance to see more of Nix, in the meantime.

drewcifer
05-03-2009, 11:55 PM
Shame on Ozzie. It's like he was preoccupied with that damn baseball game he was managing or something.



:cool:

...yeah.... managing and stuff.... Go <insert son's name>.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 12:02 AM
Are some of you Nix detractors beginning to figure out why Sox management likes him? He is supposed to be about as good as they come as a defensive second baseman. That show he put on tonight was a pretty good demonstration of why he has that reputation. I understand that he also has plenty of talent with the bat, but has had a habit of trying to hit too much for power. Let's hope that he just tries to make contact, and doesn't over swing.

I love Getz, and of course Beckham is going to be the future, but I hope we get a chance to see more of Nix, in the meantime.


Hell, if Nix can provide us with quality ABs, can he play some SS for us?

I would not mind Alexei riding the pine for a few weeks here until he learns to start giving us more than 2 pitches per ABs. Alexei = Juan Uribe right now. That's pretty bad.

cws05champ
05-04-2009, 12:06 AM
Hell, if Nix can provide us with quality ABs, can he play some SS for us?

I would not mind Alexei riding the pine for a few weeks here until he learns to start giving us more than 2 pitches per ABs. Alexei = Juan Uribe right now. That's pretty bad.
Call me crazy but against some leftys I wouldn't mind seeing Getz leading off as a DH and Nix batting 2nd and plating 2B.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-04-2009, 12:06 AM
It seemed like the ESPN guys were completely unprepared for the interview by asking two stupid questions, and Ozzie was just taken aback.

First they questioned whether Ozzie thought the team was getting back to a style of relying on homeruns after the smartball 2005 team won the World Series. That question is wrong on so many levels. The 2005 team won with the homerun, but they just happened to have more speed and better pitching that the Sox teams from earlier in the decade. It seemed like the 08 team got away from smartball since they had absolutely no speed in their station-to-station play, but this year's team actually is much more well-rounded and is not relying on the homer as much. The question they asked would have been more suited for a Sox game from last year.

Then they asked Ozzie about the gaping hole at the leadoff spot, which has actually been filled quite nicely by Getz for the past two weeks.

Bingo! They seemed to have no clue about the current Sox team and didn't give a rat's rump about the game. Every time I watch an ESPN game I have to mute and go to Farmer.

Nix was a bright spot tho. Is Betemit really necessary? Didn't hear Morgan going on about how great he is when he was butchering 1B.

Man, I hope tomorrow is better.

drewcifer
05-04-2009, 12:09 AM
Hell, if Nix can provide us with quality ABs, can he play some SS for us?

I would not mind Alexei riding the pine for a few weeks here until he learns to start giving us more than 2 pitches per ABs. Alexei = Juan Uribe right now. That's pretty bad.

Not a horrible idea. His swing is still ridiculously long and Nix showed some effort. And for all the ****ing hype over TCMs defense, I saw Nix make a play and some talent tonight that rivals anything I've seen from TCM...

Betemit boned him.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 12:17 AM
Not a horrible idea. His swing is still ridiculously long and Nix showed some effort. And for all the ****ing hype over TCMs defense, I saw Nix make a play and some talent tonight that rivals anything I've seen from TCM...

Betemit boned him.


I agree.

Alexei has not done anything with the glove so far which has made me forget about Juan Uribe. There were a couple of ground ball hits to his right tonight which it looked like he had awful breaks on and missed them with a dive.

Not saying to bench the guy for good, but he sucks right now. And if his excuse is that he starts off slow, then go do that at Charlotte and stop killing this team with ****ty AB after ****ty AB.

Noneck
05-04-2009, 12:40 AM
Alexei has not done anything with the glove so far which has made me forget about Juan Uribe. There were a couple of ground ball hits to his right tonight which it looked like he had awful breaks on and missed them with a dive.



I was thinking the same thing. I was expecting a magician at short and to me he has been just a average defensive SS. I know its early but with Getz, Nix and Beckham down the line maybe if Anderson does not recover well or can't hit his weight, Ramirez should be given CF. Wise, Lillibridge and Pod will not be the answer and it would give these younger players the opportunity to prove themselves.

DrCrawdad
05-04-2009, 12:42 AM
I'd say it was a HUGE waste of time to have watched the game tonight but that would be a put-down of the terrific fielding by Jayson Nix. That was awesome!

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 12:59 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I was expecting a magician at short and to me he has been just a average defensive SS. I know its early but with Getz, Nix and Beckham down the line maybe if Anderson does not recover well or can't hit his weight, Ramirez should be given CF. Wise, Lillibridge and Pod will not be the answer and it would give these younger players the opportunity to prove themselves.


That's another thing to rant on. Boy have the Sox backed themselves into a collection of wasteful crap for a bench. For all this "depth" nonensense I kept hearing here on this board, Lilibridge, Betemit, Wise, Owens and Co. suck as ML ballplayers. And none are young by any standards. Then look at the "depth" to back up the starting rotation. Everyone wants to run Contreras out of town, for who? Broadway? Richard? Egbart? Marquez?


There is not much quality out there on this 40 man roster to back up what appears to be a very fragile aging team.


We need our guys to get healthy and quick or else we are going to be in trouble.

hawkjt
05-04-2009, 01:07 AM
It is like the ESPN crew comes up with their pet theories,independent of any actual facts, then presses them during the game. The postulated that the sox were struggling to find a leadoff hitter, then showed the stats and Getz's .346 stood out like a sore thumb and they glossed over that...joke.
The all or nothing homer based offense has some credence, but to me it is more of an issue with a lack of clutch hitting with RISP.

It is irritating, but not as bad as the game itself.

Noneck
05-04-2009, 01:16 AM
That's another thing to rant on. Boy have the Sox backed themselves into a collection of wasteful crap for a bench. For all this "depth" nonensense I kept hearing here on this board, Lilibridge, Betemit, Wise, Owens and Co. suck as ML ballplayers. And none are young by any standards. Then look at the "depth" to back up the starting rotation. Everyone wants to run Contreras out of town, for who? Broadway? Richard? Egbart? Marquez?


There is not much quality out there on this 40 man roster to back up what appears to be a very fragile aging team.


We need our guys to get healthy and quick or else we are going to be in trouble.


2nd and SS are the places on team where there is depth. When I saw Fields get hurt I was thinking damn now where do they go? Betemit the starting 3rd baseman.

Pitching? I always saw this coming so did many others here. All the smoke and mirror crap about Marquez, Richard, Broadway when they dumped the 200+ inning eater , never injured, so called choker, who was making too much money pitcher.

Just imagine a injury that puts Buehrle, Danks, Colon or Floyd on the shelf for 6 weeks. That will turn into a wait till next year senario.

WhiteSox1983
05-04-2009, 01:19 AM
Ozzie's weird lineups are getting boring.

Sox
05-04-2009, 01:23 AM
Is there something wrong with this Sox team and the color blue? :scratch:It sure seems to me that they have problems playing teams with Blue uniforms like the Rangers and the Royals. I don't know. Maybe it's stretch to even suggest something like that.:dunno: I just didn't like the way that the Sox played tonight. No fire, no enthusiasm. Except for the ones on the team that are producing hits and runs anyway that have already been mentioned.:gah:

Nellie_Fox
05-04-2009, 01:43 AM
I agree.

Alexei has not done anything with the glove so far which has made me forget about Juan Uribe. There were a couple of ground ball hits to his right tonight which it looked like he had awful breaks on and missed them with a dive.

Not saying to bench the guy for good, but he sucks right now. And if his excuse is that he starts off slow, then go do that at Charlotte and stop killing this team with ****ty AB after ****ty AB.Correct me if I'm wrong (I was grading term papers with the ballgame on) but I could have sworn that Alexei went 2 for 4 tonight.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2009, 01:44 AM
You have to believe that's what they'll do with Lillibridge when Anderson comes off the DL. BA and Pods will share CF. Nix will back up the middle infield, and Lillibridge can go work on his offensive woes in Charlotte.

I really hope that Pods isn't sharing time with BA in CF as in a platoon sort of role. Now if he were to let him rest a couple of days, I wouldn't mind that.

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2009, 01:44 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong (I was grading term papers with the ballgame on) but I could have sworn that Alexei went 2 for 4 tonight.

You are correct. He's looked better at the plate of late.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 02:27 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong (I was grading term papers with the ballgame on) but I could have sworn that Alexei went 2 for 4 tonight.


Yes he did but in those 4 ABs he is doing still a bunch of the same nonesense which has him hitting just above the Mendoza line. 1st pitch hacking for the fence. He is averaging about 3 pitches per AB. Pitchers are starting with 1st pitch off speed away from the the plate because they know he is in hack mode all the time.

He is in Brian Anderson mode right now, I wish Ozzie and Walker can get him to just stand there and take the first pitch. It's 90% junk all the time.

A .540 OPS one full month into the season is very shameful for any everyday ML ballplayer. Chris DeLuca looks like a genius right now with Alexei being the best player in Chicago.

oeo
05-04-2009, 02:49 AM
That's another thing to rant on. Boy have the Sox backed themselves into a collection of wasteful crap for a bench. For all this "depth" nonensense I kept hearing here on this board, Lilibridge, Betemit, Wise, Owens and Co. suck as ML ballplayers.

Each one has their advantages, which is what you're going to get from a bench. If they were good, they would be starting somewhere. If you can find a bench full of great players, top-to-bottom, let me know.

Yes he did but in those 4 ABs he is doing still a bunch of the same nonesense which has him hitting just above the Mendoza line. 1st pitch hacking for the fence. He is averaging about 3 pitches per AB. Pitchers are starting with 1st pitch off speed away from the the plate because they know he is in hack mode all the time.

That is Alexei Ramirez and part of what made him successful last year, and will likely make him successful again.

He is in Brian Anderson mode right now, I wish Ozzie and Walker can get him to just stand there and take the first pitch. It's 90% junk all the time.

When Anderson has half the plate coverage and ability to adjust that Alexei does, then you can compare the two. Until then, Anderson should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

Lillian
05-04-2009, 06:56 AM
Did anyone mention how odd it was that Pods was in RF? Why wouldn't Ozzie put Quentin in RF and Pods in LF? That is a horrible outfield to begin with, but with Pods' arm in RF, teams will go first to third on any ball hit to right.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2009, 07:05 AM
Throughout this series, did everyone see the difference in how the Sox hitters swing the bat (uppercut swing for the fences), compared to how the Rangers hitters swing the bat (level, compact, line drive swings)?

That's the difference between Greg Walker and Rudy Jaramillo.

southside rocks
05-04-2009, 07:39 AM
Besides Quentin, the whole team looked like they could care less that they had a game to play, even Ozzie seemed like he was out of it as well while being interviewed. Terrible effort.

Betimit is a fat donkey who can't bend over to catch a throw.

Can we get some "stones" and retaliate. Fields gets hit with a fastball on the hand to go along with Dye yesturday and PK being hit I believe twice. Danks should have drilled Kinsler leading off the game right in the ribs. Instead of leading off the game with a homer, he would be at first. Oh well, just frustrated that we showed no heart

JEFF

I agree, to me the repeated HBP incidents are a big deal. Dye and Fields got hit pretty hard, and in areas where serious injury could have resulted. I don't know if the hits were intentional or not, but even if they weren't, the result was that the Sox looked pwned for the entire two games. And they played that way, too. That was a 4th-place ballclub out there this weekend.

kravdog
05-04-2009, 07:42 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong (I was grading term papers with the ballgame on) but I could have sworn that Alexei went 2 for 4 tonight.

You are correct, his 2 for 4 performance on Sunday raised his BA to .210.

Also, anyone who thinks that the Oz will actually bench Alexei for an extend period of time is crazy. Not that it is a crazy idea, but Oz will be Oz.

soxfan21
05-04-2009, 09:56 AM
That really stunk last night. Hopefully we can finally get a win against Greinke tonite, but we are going to have to have a great game to beat him tonite.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 10:02 AM
A craptastic performance tonight with Walkerball at its finest. Just forget it and find ways to throw KC off their game at home.Who was the hitting coach in 05?

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 10:06 AM
When Anderson has half the plate coverage and ability to adjust that Alexei does, then you can compare the two. Until then, Anderson should not be mentioned in the same sentence.


So flaying away at 1st pitch off speed is not Anderson like?

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Who was the hitting coach in 05?


Contreras was also great in '05, so what's your point?


Stop living in the past.

soxinem1
05-04-2009, 10:21 AM
Betemit has shown why ATL, LAD, and NYY do not want him.

He cannot field the ball anywhere. Is this the best we can do for a backup INF?

His glove is strictly optional, and a few singles here and there no not mask his slow K-prone swing.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 10:23 AM
Betemit has shown why ATL, LAD, and NYY do not want him.

He cannot field the ball anywhere. Is this the best we can do for a backup INF?

His glove is strictly optional, and a few singles here and there no not mask his slow K-prone swing.


I am getting nervous at the fact that we have no one to back up Fields. Betemit is awful. Sad to say, but Uribe would be playing a huge role with this team right now.

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Contreras was also great in '05, so what's your point?


Stop living in the past.Ok seriously. Who was the hitting coach? I have no idea.

Sargeant79
05-04-2009, 10:48 AM
Betemit has shown why ATL, LAD, and NYY do not want him.

He cannot field the ball anywhere. Is this the best we can do for a backup INF?

His glove is strictly optional, and a few singles here and there no not mask his slow K-prone swing.

Agreed. Maybe my perception is colored at the moment by his inability to come up with the ball on that spectacular Nix play, but Betemit might be the worst defensive infielder I have seen in years. His best role seems to be as a backup DH, which really makes you question his value on a major league roster.

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2009, 10:49 AM
Ok seriously. Who was the hitting coach? I have no idea.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2005+chicago+white+sox+staff

JohnTucker0814
05-04-2009, 10:50 AM
Ok... I think it's time to start the Alexei experiment in CF until Anderson comes back.

I'm not impressed with Pods at all, he is a 4th OFer at best, and really only a speed option off the bench.

Nix looked fantastic. We need to get him in the line-up and playing defense. He should be playing SS with Getz at 2B and TCM in CF...

JMO!

edit... this is a funny response, especially since you see my picture below... haha

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 10:53 AM
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2005+chicago+white+sox+staff:shocked: And you all hate him!?

Oh well, I'm an idiot for not being able to find it with Google. All I did was search 2005 White Sox that way, never though "staff" would do it. :doh:

Craig Grebeck
05-04-2009, 10:55 AM
:shocked: And you all hate him!?

Oh well, I'm an idiot for not being able to find it with Google. All I did was search 2005 White Sox that way, never though "staff" would do it. :doh:
I think most just understand that one year does not a good hitting coach make. But, having said that, I see no reason to fire him given the nature of the hitters he works with. Does Walker get any credit for the hot start of Chris Getz?

Rdy2PlayBall
05-04-2009, 10:56 AM
I think most just understand that one year does not a good hitting coach make. But, having said that, I see no reason to fire him given the nature of the hitters he works with. Does Walker get any credit for the hot start of Chris Getz?Or the random blowout year by CQ? I don't know if he talked to him at all but it is very well possible.

kittle42
05-04-2009, 11:48 AM
:shocked: And you all hate him!?

Oh well, I'm an idiot for not being able to find it with Google. All I did was search 2005 White Sox that way, never though "staff" would do it. :doh:

The offense really wasn't *that* great in 2005 - pitching carried the way to many a one-run victory.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 12:31 PM
The offense really wasn't *that* great in 2005 - pitching carried the way to many a one-run victory.


People tend to forget the "all or nothing" aspect of that club too. That's what sent us into a tail spin late August and September with us almost losing the Division to the Tribe. We had one guy, one guy who had a career year and then we all seem to believe in this magic of "Ozzie Ball." What happened when Pods got hurt?

doublem23
05-04-2009, 12:59 PM
People tend to forget the "all or nothing" aspect of that club too. That's what sent us into a tail spin late August and September with us almost losing the Division to the Tribe. We had one guy, one guy who had a career year and then we all seem to believe in this magic of "Ozzie Ball." What happened when Pods got hurt?

The Sox didn't really go into a "tailspin" during August and September; they were still above .500 for those 2 months and had the 2nd best record in the Central over that span, it was just that the Indians went on a ridiculous tear, they were something like 37-13 from August 1-the last week of the season (.740 WP). I know everyone likes to paint that as a "near choke," but it was really more that the Indians nearly caught us.

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:08 PM
So flaying away at 1st pitch off speed is not Anderson like?

Not when Alexei can become more selective at the snap of your fingers, or when that same approach would have won him Rookie of the Year last year if it wasn't for Evan Longoria being around.

There's nothing 'Anderson-like' about Alexei. Alexei knows what he's doing.

asindc
05-04-2009, 01:08 PM
The Sox didn't really go into a "tailspin" during August and September; they were still above .500 for those 2 months and had the 2nd best record in the Central over that span, it was just that the Indians went on a ridiculous tear, they were something like 37-13 from August 1-the last week of the season (.740 WP). I know everyone likes to paint that as a "near choke," but it was really more that the Indians nearly caught us.

I'll add that that Cleveland had the best record in the majors post-All Star break in 2005. The fact is that they would have caught every other division leader that year is lost on most casual observers.

asindc
05-04-2009, 01:09 PM
I am getting nervous at the fact that we have no one to back up Fields. Betemit is awful. Sad to say, but Uribe would be playing a huge role with this team right now.

I really hope you don't think letting Uribe go and picking up Betemit to replace him was strictly a baseball decision.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 01:12 PM
I really hope you don't think letting Uribe go and picking up Betemit to replace him was strictly a baseball decision.


$$$

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:14 PM
$$$

Are you not the same guy that was just complaining about our bench? Then you want Uribe back? Here's a clue: Juan Uribe is not a good major league player, either. He has his advantage: defense, but then again, so do Lillibridge and Nix...

And BTW, I think Nix ends up as the backup third baseman. He can pick it, and that's at least 120% better than what Betemit can do.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 01:20 PM
The Sox didn't really go into a "tailspin" during August and September; they were still above .500 for those 2 months and had the 2nd best record in the Central over that span, it was just that the Indians went on a ridiculous tear, they were something like 37-13 from August 1-the last week of the season (.740 WP). I know everyone likes to paint that as a "near choke," but it was really more that the Indians nearly caught us.

The Sox were on pace to win about 110 ball games at some point during that year and finished with 99 wins. They did hit a tail spin IMO. Just my opinion. It wasn't a choke job, but it was a big bump on the road factored in with the huge pressure the Tribe sneaking behind them caused.

jabrch
05-04-2009, 01:22 PM
Throughout this series, did everyone see the difference in how the Sox hitters swing the bat (uppercut swing for the fences), compared to how the Rangers hitters swing the bat (level, compact, line drive swings)?

That's the difference between Greg Walker and Rudy Jaramillo.


Really...Do you seriously believe the our middle of the order have all designed their swings around some plan by Walker to swing uppercuts? Really?

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:22 PM
The Sox were on pace to win about 110 ball games at some point during that year and finished with 99 wins. They did hit a tail spin IMO. Just my opinion. It wasn't a choke job, but it was a big bump on the road factored in with the huge pressure the Tribe sneaking behind them caused.

Haha, not many teams can keep up a torrid pace like that. Why wouldn't we see more 110+ win teams then?

jabrch
05-04-2009, 01:24 PM
I'll add that that Cleveland had the best record in the majors post-All Star break in 2005. The fact is that they would have caught every other division leader that year is lost on most casual observers.


Because...nobody gives a **** anymore than they do about the fact that in 2006, their 90 wins would have put them in the playoffs if they were in the NL.

It doesn't mean diddly poo.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 01:28 PM
Are you not the same guy that was just complaining about our bench? Then you want Uribe back? Here's a clue: Juan Uribe is not a good major league player, either. He has his advantage: defense, but then again, so do Lillibridge and Nix...

And BTW, I think Nix ends up as the backup third baseman. He can pick it, and that's at least 120% better than what Betemit can do.


I never was a huge fan of Uribe as a starter, but he made up one hell of a bench player if used correctly.

Uribe 10X the utility man to me Lillibridge or Betemit are.

You sound so sure about Nix playing 3B, has he done it before?

As a contender, you just can't throw a guy into a position he hasn't played. It's like the old saying "move him to first base," when talking about a bad OF. Each position takes skill and repetition.

Betemit playing anywhere on the filed = out of postion
Nix playing 3B = out of position
Pods playing CF = out of positon
Pods playing RF way out of postion.
Lilibridge in a ML uniform = out of position

I realize injuries are piling on us, but where is all this "depth" everyone was so excited about?

asindc
05-04-2009, 01:34 PM
Because...nobody gives a **** anymore than they do about the fact that in 2006, their 90 wins would have put them in the playoffs if they were in the NL.

It doesn't mean diddly poo.

The point is that the White Sox didn't piss away their big lead in 2005 as much as Cleveland stormed from behind in an extraordinary way.

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:37 PM
I never was a huge fan of Uribe as a starter, but he made up one hell of a bench player if used correctly.

Uribe 10X the utility man to me Lillibridge or Betemit are.

I would not call Betemit a utility player...more like a bat with pop off the bench. Considering Lillibridge can play three different positions, I'd say you're wrong, there.

You sound so sure about Nix playing 3B, has he done it before?

As a contender, you just can't throw a guy into a position he hasn't played. It's like the old saying "move him to first base," when talking about a bad OF. Each position takes skill and repetition.

Betemit playing anywhere on the filed = out of postion
Nix playing 3B = out of position
Pods playing CF = out of positon
Pods playing RF way out of postion.
Lilibridge in a ML uniform = out of position

I realize injuries are piling on us, but where is all this "depth" everyone was so excited about?That's because people thought we had something in Lillibridge and Nix before they saw them play. Not surprising...

Anyways, how many games did Uribe have at 3B? The answer is 19 starts before 2008, all of them in 2004. Yes, they can just 'throw Nix out of position' once a week because he at least knows how to play the infield. I'm not asking him to start at 3B everyday, we already have a starter there. I don't understand what you're doing here. First you whine about Betemit's defense, then you don't want to hear anything about possible replacements. If you think Betemit can play a better 3B than Nix, that's funny.

PalehosePlanet
05-04-2009, 01:44 PM
I never was a huge fan of Uribe as a starter, but he made up one hell of a bench player if used correctly.

Uribe 10X the utility man to me Lillibridge or Betemit are.

You sound so sure about Nix playing 3B, has he done it before?

As a contender, you just can't throw a guy into a position he hasn't played. It's like the old saying "move him to first base," when talking about a bad OF. Each position takes skill and repetition.

Betemit playing anywhere on the filed = out of postion
Nix playing 3B = out of position
Pods playing CF = out of positon
Pods playing RF way out of postion.
Lilibridge in a ML uniform = out of position

I realize injuries are piling on us, but where is all this "depth" everyone was so excited about?

I would have perferred that we would have sent someone down for at least a few games and brought up Kroeger and/or Restovich to play RF while Jermaine heals.

As it is we were playing with only 2 OF'ers last night and probably will be again tonight.

My point is the depth is there, however, KW and Ozzie chose not to go that route. The players I mentioned are at AAA for this purpose --- to help in a pinch. Not sure why we have not made a move.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 01:45 PM
That's because people thought we had something in Lillibridge and Nix before they saw them play. Not surprising...

Anyways, how many games did Uribe have at 3B? The answer is 19 starts before 2008, all of them in 2004. Yes, they can just 'throw him out of position' once a week because he at least knows how to play the infield. I'm not asking him to start at 3B everyday, we already have a starter there.


I think too much stock was put on the guys Kenny brought in. Nix, Lilibridge, & Betemit.

The bench is not a problem with a random start once per week. Only problem is that that this team is very fragile because of age and once per week type bench players is not going to cut it. Say Fields blows out his knee and is gone for the year, Nix is the answer? No way. Viciendo, I guess is not read. So what do you do?

2B and SS we are well covered IMO because Beckham can be called up here at any moment and he will do just fine. My concern is who backs up 3B, 1B, and the OF. When you have Pods playing one night in CF and then the next in RF ..... boy do you have major problems. Sad part is that Wise, Anderson, Owens Lilibridge are/were not any better.

Swisher would have been a nice guy to keep around if not for his attitude. Solid 1B and could play all 3 OF positions when needed.

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:47 PM
[/B]

I would have perferred that we would have sent someone down for at least a few games and brought up Kroeger and/or Restovich to play RF while Jermaine heals.

As it is we were playing with only 2 OF'ers last night and probably will be again tonight.

My point is the depth is there, however, KW and Ozzie chose not to go that route. The players I mentioned are at AAA for this purpose --- to help in a pinch. Not sure why we have not made a move.

Is Dye even supposed to be out more than last night? Ozzie always holds you out the day after you leave a game with an injury.

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:49 PM
I think too much stock was put on the guys Kenny brought in. Nix, Lilibridge, & Betemit.

The bench is not a problem with a random start once per week. Only problem is that that this team is very fragile because of age and once per week type bench players is not going to cut it. Say Fields blows out his knee and is gone for the year, Nix is the answer? No way. Viciendo, I guess is not read. So what do you do?

That's not a problem with the bench, that's a problem with our farm system. We're still paying for taking a few drafts almost completely off and Kenny going on a trading binge (Sweeney and Cunningham from two different failed trades are two guys that would fill into the outfield nicely right now). That's why we have no rotation depth, either.

PalehosePlanet
05-04-2009, 01:52 PM
Is Dye even supposed to be out more than last night? Ozzie always holds you out the day after you leave a game with an injury.

During his dugout interview last night, he mumbled something about keeping him out tonight too, and hopefully he'll be ready by Tuesday.

Now, granted, I know it's only two games... but still I'd like to at least have 3 able bodied OF'ers.

oeo
05-04-2009, 01:53 PM
During his dugout interview last night, he mumbled something about keeping him out tonight too, and hopefully he'll be ready by Tuesday.

Now, granted, I know it's only two games... but still I'd like to at least have 3 able bodied OF'ers.

Is Restovich really considered 'able bodied?' I was not impressed in the least by him in Spring Training. The way he was running in the outfield, you might as well put Thome out there.

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 01:56 PM
During his dugout interview last night, he mumbled something about keeping him out tonight too, and hopefully he'll be ready by Tuesday.

Now, granted, I know it's only two games... but still I'd like to at least have 3 able bodied OF'ers.


For all the assurance we get by the experts here that when Dye goes CQ is ready to play RF, wouldn't it be a better idea to move him to RF now (while Dye is out) and put your worst OF liability in Pods back to LF?

PalehosePlanet
05-04-2009, 02:16 PM
For all the assurance we get by the experts here that when Dye goes CQ is ready to play RF, wouldn't it be a better idea to move him to RF now (while Dye is out) and put your worst OF liability in Pods back to LF?

In a word: Yes.

I don't get it either. Ozzie didn't trust Pods to play anything but LF back when he was actually decent. So now, three years later, when he has no business being on an MLB team (other than 25th man, used to maybe pinch run or pinch hit) he starts him in CF, then the next night in RF.

kittle42
05-04-2009, 02:34 PM
Is Restovich really considered 'able bodied?'

What about Kroeger? I saw him get hits on TV in spring training. He is awesome!!!

WhiteSox5187
05-04-2009, 02:46 PM
In a word: Yes.

I don't get it either. Ozzie didn't trust Pods to play anything but LF back when he was actually decent. So now, three years later, when he has no business being on an MLB team (other than 25th man, used to maybe pinch run or pinch hit) he starts him in CF, then the next night in RF.

Again, the only reason he is on this team is because Anderson got hurt and Owens sucks. If Anderson were healthy, he'd be in CF. Once he comes back, I don't think we'll be seeing much of Pods in CF. I don't know why he hasn't been moved to left though and have Quentin play right.

Konerko05
05-04-2009, 03:23 PM
Not when Alexei can become more selective at the snap of your fingers, or when that same approach would have won him Rookie of the Year last year if it wasn't for Evan Longoria being around.

There's nothing 'Anderson-like' about Alexei. Alexei knows what he's doing.

Yeah, Alexei meant to hit .210 the first month of the season.

His approach at the plate right now is awful.

Swinging at bad breaking balls combined with a .542 OPS is very 2006 Brian Anderson-esque. No one said they have the same overall hitting capabilities.

Konerko05
05-04-2009, 03:25 PM
Swisher would have been a nice guy to keep around if not for his attitude. Solid 1B and could play all 3 OF positions when needed.

I'm not saying the White Sox wouldn't benefit from having Nick Swisher right now, but do we really have to go through the attitude thing again?

His attitude is one of the reasons he was traded. Yeah, his .219 AVG might have also had something to do with it.

oeo
05-04-2009, 03:40 PM
Yeah, Alexei meant to hit .210 the first month of the season.

His approach at the plate right now is awful.

No one was complaining last year when that same exact **** got him up to around a .315 batting average.

Swinging at bad breaking balls combined with a .542 OPS is very 2006 Brian Anderson-esque. No one said they have the same overall hitting capabilities.But that's the thing...Alexei knows what he's doing, obviously. Without a slow start and rough end, he's a .300 hitter last year. He can swing out of his shoes and go 0-2, and then work the count, get a base hit, even walk on occasion. When has Anderson ever shown that kind of ability?

As for his numbers, you have to remember, two weeks ago, he was batting .125/.186./.125. While he's been bad, he hasn't been that bad lately. It's going to a couple of phenomenal games to get that hitting back into a respectable zone, but he is on the way up and not the way down. I think Ozzie might be smart to give him a day off or two, but I don't think Alexei should change a damn thing.

Konerko05
05-04-2009, 03:48 PM
No one was complaining last year when that same exact **** got him up to around a .315 batting average.



But that's the thing...Alexei knows what he's doing, obviously. Without a slow start and rough end, he's a .300 hitter last year. He can swing out of his shoes and go 0-2, and then work the count, get a base hit, even walk on occasion. When has Anderson ever shown that kind of ability?

Well last year it was working. This year it isn't. It's called making adjustments.

Again, no one said Brian Anderson and Alexei Ramirez have the same overall hitting ability. I thought I made that point very specifically in my last post.

Right now his production, pitch recognition, and ability to hit a breaking ball is comparable to Brian Anderson in 2006. You're looking too much into that statement. You think he looked good at the plate in April?

LoveYourSuit
05-04-2009, 03:50 PM
I'm not saying the White Sox wouldn't benefit from having Nick Swisher right now, but do we really have to go through the attitude thing again?

His attitude is one of the reasons he was traded. Yeah, his .219 AVG might have also had something to do with it.

No, we don't have to go there since my original post mentioned that.

Konerko05
05-04-2009, 03:54 PM
No, we don't have to go there since my original post mentioned that.

I'm sorry. I totally read your post wrong.

I thought you said he would be good to have around because of his attitude.

oeo
05-04-2009, 04:01 PM
Well last year it was working. This year it isn't. It's called making adjustments.

And I'd be hard-pressed to find another guy with as little big league experience as Alexei to make any adjustment that's needed.

Again, no one said Brian Anderson and Alexei Ramirez have the same overall hitting ability. I thought I made that point very specifically in my last post.I didn't miss it, I'm trying to make a point that Alexei has actually made himself successful off of this approach.

Right now his production, pitch recognition, and ability to hit a breaking ball is comparable to Brian Anderson in 2006. You're looking too much into that statement. You think he looked good at the plate in April?No, I never said he looked good. In fact, I've already mentioned multiple times here that his bat has been nonexistent. However, once again, Alexei was successful last year with this approach. He got in 0-1, 0-2 holes all the time swinging at crap. That's not the problem...the problem is what he's doing afterwards, and it seems like a lot of, "I want to pull everything and hit 35 homeruns this year, " when last year he was hitting the ball all over the field with authority when he was at his best.

Even with that said, I think when things warm up, a lot of his fly outs are going to be homeruns. Just a couple nights ago, a month from now he probably has two homeruns in that game...that would have bumped his average up 24 points.

Konerko05
05-04-2009, 04:07 PM
And I'd be hard-pressed to find another guy with as little big league experience as Alexei to make any adjustment that's needed.



I didn't miss it, I'm trying to make a point that Alexei has actually made himself successful off of this approach.



No, I never said he looked good. In fact, I've already mentioned multiple times here that his bat has been nonexistent. However, once again, Alexei was successful last year with this approach. He got in 0-1, 0-2 holes all the time swinging at crap. That's not the problem...the problem is what he's doing afterwards, and it seems like a lot of, "I want to pull everything and hit 35 homeruns this year, " when last year he was hitting the ball all over the field with authority when he was at his best.

It's made him successful for one year. His first year in MLB. You don't think teams and pitchers have a much better scouting report on him now?

Maybe swinging at crap until he is 0-1 and 0-2 isn't the right approach anymore.

Flailing at bad breaking balls to put yourself 0-2 is not a good approach for any hitter. Not even Alexei. I agree he needs to stop pulling the ball and start spraying the ball all over the field, but he isn't himself before that.

He looked completely lost out there in April. He didn't look like a hitter who "knows what he's doing."

oeo
05-04-2009, 04:13 PM
It's made him successful for one year. His first year in MLB. You don't think teams and pitchers have a much better scouting report on him now?

Maybe swinging at crap until he is 0-1 and 0-2 isn't the right approach anymore.

Again, I think it's his approach after falling behind that is the problem. That's what has changed.

Flailing at bad breaking balls to put yourself 0-2 is not a good approach for any hitter. Not even Alexei. I agree he needs to stop pulling the ball and start spraying the ball all over the field, but he isn't himself before that.I disagree. We saw the same exact crap last year. It was, "what the hell is he doing?" and then it turned into, "Alexei is the man!"

He was behind all the time, if he didn't hit the first pitch beforehand. Last year he changed his approach after falling behind, though: shortened up a bit and became more selective.

PalehosePlanet
05-04-2009, 05:36 PM
What about Kroeger? I saw him get hits on TV in spring training. He is awesome!!!

Laugh all you want, but compared to Pods, Kroeger is indeed awesome. And Restovich can play a better RF than Pods in his sleep.

The only reason Pods is on the team is due to KW's and Ozzie's obsession with fast players, regardless if they're downright pitiful in attempting to do anything else on the field (see Owens, Jerry.)

kittle42
05-04-2009, 05:37 PM
Laugh all you want, but compared to Pods, Kroeger is indeed awesome.

Based on what? I am in no way saying Podsednik belongs on an MLB roster, but I can't make any case - at all - for Kroeger, either.

doublem23
05-04-2009, 05:44 PM
Laugh all you want, but compared to Pods, Kroeger is indeed awesome. And Restovich can play a better RF than Pods in his sleep.

The only reason Pods is on the team is due to KW's and Ozzie's obsession with fast players, regardless if they're downright pitiful in attempting to do anything else on the field (see Owens, Jerry.)

Is this for real? Kroeger and Restovich suck. Podsednik may be bad now, but at least he can still run, so he's at least a 1-tool player.

Konerko05
05-04-2009, 06:37 PM
Again, I think it's his approach after falling behind that is the problem. That's what has changed.

I disagree. We saw the same exact crap last year. It was, "what the hell is he doing?" and then it turned into, "Alexei is the man!"

He was behind all the time, if he didn't hit the first pitch beforehand. Last year he changed his approach after falling behind, though: shortened up a bit and became more selective.

His approach after falling behind might be a problem, but it isn't the problem. I know it seems like Alexei hit better while behind in the count, but no one hits better behind in the count.

I don't see how taking two curveballs out of the zone and setting yourself up to get a fastball wouldn't benefit Alexei. Not to mention, he absolutely raked on the first pitch last year with a .387 AVG, .624 SLG. Teams are no longer giving him first pitch fastballs in the zone. Teams will never give him an early count fastball in the zone again unless he shows the ability to lay off bad pitches.

If he changes his approach at the plate, he will see better pitches. Better pitches = better production.

Alexei's 2008 line with two strikes: .214/.231/.344.

ChiSoxGirl
05-04-2009, 09:50 PM
TBGR (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3765). :angry: There was no Pick to Click thread from last night, so I made us the PTC. :D: