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View Full Version : *Official* "A loss in more ways than one" 5/2/09 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
05-03-2009, 12:09 AM
Discuss. Contreras must be removed from the rotation. Whatever replaces him cannot be worse.

Frater Perdurabo
05-03-2009, 12:09 AM
Bloviate here

SoxGirl4Life
05-03-2009, 12:10 AM
Lets win the series tomorrow.

SoxBears34
05-03-2009, 12:12 AM
Discuss. Contreras must be removed from the rotation. Whatever replaces him cannot be worse.

Agreed, but what options are there?

Frater Perdurabo
05-03-2009, 12:12 AM
Among all the dark clouds, one silver lining is that the Sox comeback forced the Rangers to use their better relievers tonight. OTOH, Jenks, Linebrink and Dotel did not pitch tonight, and Thornton had an easy inning. Therefore, going into tomorrow's game, the Rangers' bullpen is more depleted, while our best relievers are rested.

manders_01
05-03-2009, 12:12 AM
Hard loss but would have been a lot harder with only one run. Tomorrow night boys!

Frater Perdurabo
05-03-2009, 12:13 AM
Agreed, but what option are there?

Vote for Pedro!

Or Mark Mulder, if Herm and Coop can, ahem, fix him...

hi im skot
05-03-2009, 12:15 AM
It will be a glorious day when someone steps up to replace Contreras. Unfortunately, there aren't any other options right now.

Nice to see some fight, though. Win tomorrow.

johnnyg83
05-03-2009, 12:16 AM
I'd give Broadway a start or two. Pedro would be nice.

Paul Byrd ... coax him out of retirement?

DirtySox
05-03-2009, 12:16 AM
I had forgotten about Byrd. I wouldn't mind him.

Rohan
05-03-2009, 12:16 AM
Someone needs to step up for Jose. It's not a bad idea to see if Carrasco could be moved into a starting position and Jose to the bullpen.
I know Carrasco had some problems starting in Kansas City. But i'm willing to give it a shot.

Dye's X-ray came back negative. So that's some good news.

johnnyg83
05-03-2009, 12:19 AM
I think Byrd said something to the effect that he wouldn't sign with anyone until July b/c he wanted to play for a contender since he wasn't gonna get the money he wanted.

Noneck
05-03-2009, 12:21 AM
It's not a bad idea to see if Carrasco could be moved into a starting position

Iron Mike would serve the same purpose.

JB98
05-03-2009, 12:21 AM
Someone needs to step up for Jose. It's not a bad idea to see if Carrasco could be moved into a starting position and Jose to the bullpen.
I know Carrasco had some problems starting in Kansas City. But i'm willing to give it a shot.

Dye's X-ray came back negative. So that's some good news.

Oh, thank goodness. We are rapidly running out of outfielders and can't afford another injury at that position.

Soxaredabest
05-03-2009, 12:22 AM
Agreed, but what options are there?

Since we got Pods back, why not get Freddy Garcia, or Orlando "El Duque" Hernández?

Frankfan4life
05-03-2009, 12:25 AM
At first I was more worried about our hitting, now I'm more concerned about our pitching. Aaargh!!!

DaveFeelsRight
05-03-2009, 12:25 AM
Since we got Pods back, why not get Freddy Garcia, or Orlando "El Duque" Hernández?to be honest, i don't know where el duque went. the last i seen of him was in the 2006 nlcs.

Soxaredabest
05-03-2009, 12:26 AM
to be honest, i don't know where el duque went. the last i seen of him was in the 2006 nlcs.

He is a free agent, as is Freddy.

JB98
05-03-2009, 12:32 AM
At first I was more worried about our hitting, now I'm more concerned about our pitching. Aaargh!!!

But wouldn't you agree, though, that Contreras is the only one holding our pitching staff back?

The ballclub is 0-5 when Jose starts -- and 12-6 with everyone else.

I feel terrible watching Contreras pitch. The man is a World Series hero. And he worked his ass off to be ready for the season. But he's not throwing near enough strikes, and he's not missing many bats.

If Ozzie and Coop feel it's in the best interest of the club to give someone else a shot at Jose's spot in the rotation, I can't say I'd object at this point.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-03-2009, 12:35 AM
The Sox despreatly need to find a replacement for Contreras. Broadway, Carrasco, Van Benschoeten, Whisler could all be given a shot (I fear the possibilities). Maybe the Sox can look into the FA guys available, but I doubt anyone would be that much of an upgrade over Contreras. I would even send down Richard too. Both of them are struggling way too much. I'd call Gobble up to replace Richard, see what he brings to the bullpen. As for the rotation, we better hope Colon doesn't completly implode and continues to pitch somewhat decent. At least it was nice to see the Sox almost comeback.

johnnyg83
05-03-2009, 12:36 AM
But wouldn't you agree, though, that Contreras is the only one holding our pitching staff back?

The ballclub is 0-5 when Jose starts -- and 12-6 with everyone else.

I feel terrible watching Contreras pitch. The man is a World Series hero. And he worked his ass off to be ready for the season. But he's not throwing near enough strikes, and he's not missing many bats.

If Ozzie and Coop feel it's in the best interest of the club to give someone else a shot at Jose's spot in the rotation, I can't say I'd object at this point.

I'm in full agreement. 0-5 in games he's started ... 8.31 ERA ... if this was Ken Hill or Esteban Loiaza we'd tell them to hang it up.

Noneck
05-03-2009, 12:38 AM
I'm in full agreement. 0-5 in games he's started ... 8.31 ERA ... if this was Ken Hill or Esteban Loiaza we'd tell them to hang it up.

And if the Sox didn't owe him big bucks this year, they would be cutting him loose.

Frankfan4life
05-03-2009, 12:38 AM
But wouldn't you agree, though, that Contreras is the only one holding our pitching staff back?

The ballclub is 0-5 when Jose starts -- and 12-6 with everyone else.

I feel terrible watching Contreras pitch. The man is a World Series hero. And he worked his ass off to be ready for the season. But he's not throwing near enough strikes, and he's not missing many bats.

If Ozzie and Coop feel it's in the best interest of the club to give someone else a shot at Jose's spot in the rotation, I can't say I'd object at this point.It's clear that Jose is struggling so I also think that we should try someone else in his spot. I feel bad for Jose too but perhaps he came back from his injury too soon or his age has become a factor.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-03-2009, 12:41 AM
It's clear that Jose is struggling so I also think that we should try someone else in his spot. I feel bad for Jose too but perhaps he came back from his injury too soon or his age has become a factor.

That right there. I think he's close to 100%, he just can't do it anymore. He's gotta be close to 50, right?

johnnyg83
05-03-2009, 12:44 AM
And if the Sox didn't owe him big bucks this year, they would be cutting him loose.

yep ...

Frankfan4life
05-03-2009, 12:54 AM
That right there. I think he's close to 100%, he just can't do it anymore. He's gotta be close to 50, right?:D: He may look like he's 50 and may be pitching like he's 100 but he's 38 years old (supposedly).

DonnieDarko
05-03-2009, 12:58 AM
Not excited about moving someone into Jose's place. Maybe his future is in the bullpen, but who do we have that could replace him? Do we have a chance at Byrd when he becomes available? Carrasco, I dunno about starting, nor Broadway. Richard maybe, but he definitely doesn't belong in the bullpen...ugh. I just don't like the amount of questions about the Sox's pitching staff this year. I don't think that ANYONE has this many questions about their pitching staff in the ML...well, save for someone like, say, Washington.

At least Danks is on the mound tomorrow, and the guy that we're going up against has been REALLY bad. Like, 8+ ERA bad. That's more relief off my mind...he's gonna have to go deep into the game, sadly, but at least I'm confident with him doing that.

JB98
05-03-2009, 01:09 AM
Not excited about moving someone into Jose's place. Maybe his future is in the bullpen, but who do we have that could replace him? Do we have a chance at Byrd when he becomes available? Carrasco, I dunno about starting, nor Broadway. Richard maybe, but he definitely doesn't belong in the bullpen...ugh. I just don't like the amount of questions about the Sox's pitching staff this year. I don't think that ANYONE has this many questions about their pitching staff in the ML...well, save for someone like, say, Washington.

At least Danks is on the mound tomorrow, and the guy that we're going up against has been REALLY bad. Like, 8+ ERA bad. That's more relief off my mind...he's gonna have to go deep into the game, sadly, but at least I'm confident with him doing that.

You're not looking hard enough. I can make a case that we have fewer holes in our pitching staff than any team in the division.

We have Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton and Dotel at the back of our bullpen. A few teams in the AL Central have quality closers, but none can match what we have in set-up relief.

And the Sox aren't the only club in the division with question marks at No. 4 and No. 5 in the rotation. Look at Kansas City, Detroit and Cleveland. Hell, the Indians have questions at 3, 4 AND 5.

The Sox have some weaknesses, but there are plenty of teams out there (including some in the AL Central) who have it worse in the pitching department.

WhiteSox5187
05-03-2009, 01:35 AM
First off, if there is such a thing as good losses, this is one of 'em as we battled back and made a game out of it. If JD doesn't leave the game, we might have won this one (I think he would have come thru when we had Fields and Thome(?) at second and third and two outs).

Secondly, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Jose for working his ass off so he could come back and pitch again. Most other pitchers wouldn't have even attempted it, so kudos for trying, but alas, he has failed. We NEED another fifth starter. I was really hoping that after that great outing against Doc Jose was going to turn it around. But I guess not. Maybe move Jose to the pen? I'm not sure.

Finally, I think it's time to move Fields down in the order. He had a nice start but is clearly in a slump and I think his head is full of jumbled thoughts and needs to just stop thinking and hit the ball. AJ can handle himself in the two hole, let's move him there and Fields down to sixth.

chisoxfanatic
05-03-2009, 01:47 AM
Discuss. Contreras must be removed from the rotation. Whatever replaces him cannot be worse.
I agree. I thought it would take longer for the recovery of his injury. I just don't think he's 100% healthy yet. I didn't think he would totally implode though.

oeo
05-03-2009, 01:51 AM
I agree. I thought it would take longer for the recovery of his injury. I just don't think he's 100% healthy yet. I didn't think he would totally implode though.

There's nothing that supports that claim. As Hawk keeps saying, physically he looks fine. Velocity is there, his fork ball has even been there his last couple starts. He's just having major control issues. I don't know how much longer they can let him work this out, though. He's killing himself out there, and it's awfully hard to get on a roll when you have a black hole in the rotation.

chisoxfanatic
05-03-2009, 01:52 AM
There's nothing that supports that claim. As Hawk keeps saying, physically he looks fine. Velocity is there, his fork ball has even been there his last couple starts. He's just having major control issues. I don't know how much longer they can let him work this out, though. He's killing himself out there, and it's awfully hard to get on a roll when you have a black hole in the rotation.
But, wouldn't not feeling 100% effect a pitcher's control? From what I've seen of him, he does not seem to look like his usual self out there, and he's been a big time warrior at times.

oeo
05-03-2009, 01:59 AM
But, wouldn't not feeling 100% effect a pitcher's control? From what I've seen of him, he does not seem to look like his usual self out there, and he's been a big time warrior at times.

Probably because half of him is missing. :redneck

But seriously, I think he looks fine. The Sox are very cautious when it comes to health, so I would be surprised if they let him go out there when he wasn't okay. Unless he's hiding something, which he did last year for a period...but again, I think we'd see more problems.

goon
05-03-2009, 02:26 AM
Contreras has been bad, but I don't think the Sox rotation as a whole is in shambles. Danks, Buehrle have been outstanding and Gavin is coming around. Colon has been a surprise thus far, let's hope he can stay healthy, but not a bad number 4 starter. It might be wise to pick up a guy like Pedro or even Paul Byrd for insurance. I wish we had someone to bring up, but the farm doesn't look to have anyone capable of filling that void.

At this point, I'd give Jose another shot, then... yikes... try Broadway. Really desperate? Clayton Richard. Not sure if Williams or Reinsdorf want to throw a bunch of money at Pedro.

chisoxfanatic
05-03-2009, 02:30 AM
Colon has been a surprise thus far, let's hope he can stay healthy, but not a bad number 4 starter.
This, I fully agree with. I didn't expect really anything from Colon when I heard he was being brought back here. He's provided some solid outings so far.

southside rocks
05-03-2009, 07:17 AM
But wouldn't you agree, though, that Contreras is the only one holding our pitching staff back?

The ballclub is 0-5 when Jose starts -- and 12-6 with everyone else.

I feel terrible watching Contreras pitch. The man is a World Series hero. And he worked his ass off to be ready for the season. But he's not throwing near enough strikes, and he's not missing many bats.

If Ozzie and Coop feel it's in the best interest of the club to give someone else a shot at Jose's spot in the rotation, I can't say I'd object at this point.

I agree. It is painful to watch a game that Jose is pitching. All his hard work, all his previous accomplishments, have me really pulling for him -- but he just has not had it this year at all. He and the Yankees' Chien Ming Wang are two of the bigger puzzles in the majors this season. :(:

russ99
05-03-2009, 07:29 AM
This, I fully agree with. I didn't expect really anything from Colon when I heard he was being brought back here. He's provided some solid outings so far.

As long has Colon does his part as he's more than done so far, then we can afford to let Contreras work his way out of this, since we've had far worse 5th starters. That said, maybe Jose should skip a start to work on some things, since Broadway has looked good enough to have earned a start.

Also, of all the teams to have control issues against, one of the worst is the Rangers. That he got through 2 innings with no damage vs. that lineup is a bit encouraging.

I'm starting to believe that Richard has hit his ceiling. He was unheralded before last season, and didn't exactly set the world on fire last year. Now that the league looks to have figured him out, I'd send him down to see if he can figure something out. And it's not him starting vs. coming out of the pen. Broadway's done fine with that so far.

Viva Medias B's
05-03-2009, 08:06 AM
Can we weather the 5th starter storm until the trade deadline? Hopefully, KW will be able to get someone that way.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-03-2009, 08:16 AM
Contreras needs to be pulled from the rotation, that is clear. There is no obvious replacement right now, so I would just start throwing guys out there and see who rises to the occasion and the opportunity. You can start with Broadway, then Whisler, then Poreda. All you're asking from the 5th position at this time is a .500 record. If the Sox had that in Contreras, they would have 14 or 15 wins today.

If they're still looking for a 5th starter at the end of June, KW needs to make a trade to get one.

veeter
05-03-2009, 08:43 AM
Someone needs to step up for Jose. It's not a bad idea to see if Carrasco could be moved into a starting position and Jose to the bullpen.
I know Carrasco had some problems starting in Kansas City. But i'm willing to give it a shot.

Dye's X-ray came back negative. So that's some good news.Whew. I went to bed thinking he was out for a month.

WhiteSox1989
05-03-2009, 08:56 AM
But wouldn't you agree, though, that Contreras is the only one holding our pitching staff back?

The ballclub is 0-5 when Jose starts -- and 12-6 with everyone else.

I feel terrible watching Contreras pitch. The man is a World Series hero. And he worked his ass off to be ready for the season. But he's not throwing near enough strikes, and he's not missing many bats.

If Ozzie and Coop feel it's in the best interest of the club to give someone else a shot at Jose's spot in the rotation, I can't say I'd object at this point.

This is exactly how I feel. I really wanted him to do well in the 5th spot.

Someone else needs to be brought in. But there's nobody in the organization, I feel, that can fill in the role. Not Broadway or Richard.

slavko
05-03-2009, 10:42 AM
Don't like what I see of Lance. Carrasco's got at least a fighting chance. Worth a try.

Jjav829
05-03-2009, 10:43 AM
It might be time for Jose to come down with a case of plantar fasciitis...

Give him to some time to work things out off the roster and a few *ahem* 'rehab' starts down at AAA. I'd rather see Richard out there. I'm not ready to give up on Richard being a capable starter.

goon
05-03-2009, 11:57 AM
I'd really like to see Jose throw nothing but junk. Forkball, splitter, slider, curveball, changeup, everything slow, drop done, over the top, various arm angles with lots of movement and throw his four-seam a lot LOT less often. Every start I've watched him this year I cannot help but think he would be a great junkball pitcher, but he relies too much on his straight fastball.

The fact of the matter is, unless he starts to locate, he's going to continue to struggle. His stuff isn't bad enough to be getting knocked around like this, he's just leaving meatballs over the plate way too much.

chisox77
05-03-2009, 01:57 PM
Agreed, but what options are there?


Lance Broadway

soxinem1
05-03-2009, 02:03 PM
Since we got Pods back, why not get Freddy Garcia, or Orlando "El Duque" Hernández?

They are all available and ready!!:smile:

Hitmen77
05-03-2009, 05:44 PM
But wouldn't you agree, though, that Contreras is the only one holding our pitching staff back?

The ballclub is 0-5 when Jose starts -- and 12-6 with everyone else.

I feel terrible watching Contreras pitch. The man is a World Series hero. And he worked his ass off to be ready for the season. But he's not throwing near enough strikes, and he's not missing many bats.

If Ozzie and Coop feel it's in the best interest of the club to give someone else a shot at Jose's spot in the rotation, I can't say I'd object at this point.

Jose's performance has been bad enough. But what makes the 5th spot situation really bad is the combined poor pitching of Contreras AND Richard. It's not enough that Contreras struggles and surrenders 4 or 5 runs. But then they call on Richard and he lets the inherited runs score and then some.

Unfortunately for the Sox there are no good alternatives for the 5th spot. They took a gamble that both Colon and Contreras would be able to hold down spots in the rotation - or as a back up have Richard or Marquez in the rotation. That was a pretty big gamble and just be glad that at least Colon has worked out so far.

Maybe the Sox need to go with Lance Broadway for the 5th spot. I'm not too impressed with him, but we need someone who is at least passably mediocre to give us a chance to win some of these 5th spot games.

Konerko05
05-03-2009, 05:59 PM
Lance Broadway

This version of Contreras is still probably better than Broadway.

DonnieDarko
05-03-2009, 06:08 PM
This version of Contreras is still probably better than Broadway.

I dunno about that...