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View Full Version : Walker deserves some credit


Quentin4prez
04-24-2009, 11:48 PM
I'm sick of everyone bashing Walker for the teams offensive problems when it is the vets that arnt hitting in the clutch. Getz, Fields, and Anderson have all been hitting well and they are the type of players that Walker would have the most influence on because they are young and a lot of the time are the players that Walker works with
Getz and Fields have been very good for the most part and anderson looks much much better at the plate than in years past.
Yet i never hear anyone say Greg walker did a good job helping Anderson fix his swing.(which was talked about to a good extent by stoney in one of the first games Anderson started)
The only player i would say so far could be Walkers fault is TCM but it looks like he just might be a late starter.

Feel free to come back with crazy stats of how bad the sox do in the clutch but you still have to aknowledge the young players successes under walk if you are going to blame hit for The bad hitting from the vets

WhiteSoxOnly
04-24-2009, 11:57 PM
They're all pros and it's on them to perform.Walker doesn't deserve
any crap for Ramirez nor any kudos for Getz...same with Cooper.
Coaches can tell you why they think you are sucking or excelling
but the player has to make something out of it.

Quentin4prez
04-25-2009, 12:00 AM
yeah i guess what i was trying so say is that it would make more sense that walker is the reason the young guys are succeeding that that he is the reason the vets are failing.

Quentin4prez
04-25-2009, 12:05 AM
a comparible situation i was just thinking of is that no one blames Coop for the pore performances of colon and count(veterans) in their last outings and yet everyone praises him for his work with Floyd, Danks, Thornton(young players) and many others over the years.

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2009, 12:20 AM
I mentioned in the game thread, Walker gets a ton of **** from us for bad situation hitting ..... meanwhile Coop farts gold according to everyone and he can do no wrong There has been a ton of failure coming out of that bullpen from 2006 forward.

DSpivack
04-25-2009, 12:32 AM
I mentioned in the game thread, Walker gets a ton of **** from us for bad situation hitting ..... meanwhile Coop farts gold according to everyone and he can do no wrong There has been a ton of failure coming out of that bullpen from 2006 forward.

Sox have had the same offensive problems essentially since 2000; all or nothing, and not good situational hitting, with a couple exceptions. It's not as huge a problem as it was, say in 2003 or 2004, but it's still a problem. I'd be interested to see some propellerhead crunch numbers on offensive scoring variance, what 'pythagorean standings' completely overlooks.

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2009, 12:38 AM
Sox have had the same offensive problems essentially since 2000; all or nothing, and not good situational hitting, with a couple exceptions. It's not as huge a problem as it was, say in 2003 or 2004, but it's still a problem. I'd be interested to see some propellerhead crunch numbers on offensive scoring variance, what 'pythagorean standings' completely overlooks.

Agree, including 2005. They had one guy who did other things that year and everyone thinks the Sox discovered something never seen before. It was one guy with one big year but the rest is remained the same.

HebrewHammer
04-25-2009, 08:36 AM
If Greg Walker's job isn't to help players that are struggling and to help guys take the right approach, what, exactly, is the job of a hitting coach? I mean, other than bringing the pretzels to Ozzie's poker game. There are a ton of stories about Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak working with players to improve their swing and approach. I don't remember ever hearing a single story about Greg Walker working with a player in during his tenure as a hitting coach. At all. Who has he coached? With Lau and Hriniak you could actually point to the guys they had influenced and the successes they had. Name me one guy that Greg Walker has influenced. Show me one guy who has developed in the "Greg Walker" school of hitting. Unless infield popups are a part of his hitting strategy, I haven't seen it.

Why is it whenever we face a minor league callup, we struggle? Hasn't this been a problem for Walker's entire tenure as hitting coach? Didn't we get shut down by Brian effing Tallet?

Did Art Kuysner leave the bullpen after 2005? Isn't that about the same time we started having problems in the bullpen? Wasn't he a big believer in being mentally prepared? Interesting.

doublem23
04-25-2009, 08:39 AM
:firewalker:

southside rocks
04-25-2009, 09:54 AM
Did Art Kuysner leave the bullpen after 2005? Isn't that about the same time we started having problems in the bullpen? Wasn't he a big believer in being mentally prepared? Interesting.

No, Art left in 2007. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Kusnyer

Quentin4prez
04-25-2009, 09:58 AM
If Greg Walker's job isn't to help players that are struggling and to help guys take the right approach, what, exactly, is the job of a hitting coach? I mean, other than bringing the pretzels to Ozzie's poker game. There are a ton of stories about Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak working with players to improve their swing and approach. I don't remember ever hearing a single story about Greg Walker working with a player in during his tenure as a hitting coach. At all. Who has he coached? With Lau and Hriniak you could actually point to the guys they had influenced and the successes they had. Name me one guy that Greg Walker has influenced. Show me one guy who has developed in the "Greg Walker" school of hitting. Unless infield popups are a part of his hitting strategy, I haven't seen it.

Why is it whenever we face a minor league callup, we struggle? Hasn't this been a problem for Walker's entire tenure as hitting coach? Didn't we get shut down by Brian effing Tallet?

Did Art Kuysner leave the bullpen after 200(7)?(there fixed) Isn't that about the same time we started having problems in the bullpen? Wasn't he a big believer in being mentally prepared? Interesting.
you overlook the fact that Getz and anderson did well against Tallet i believe they hit the ball hard in every atbat, my point is that it is harder to give somone advice when they have been in the game 10+ years and think they know what they are doing as apposed to a young guy who either A: hasn't been succeeding or B: Is taking everything in.

if you read my post i mentioned how the tv crew talked about Walker fixing BA's swing for a good inning Sometime last week.
Maybe we should fire some of the slow running Power bats that hit homeruns only when we are up by 5 runs(im looking at you thome and Konerko). i know someone is going to point out Thome's clutch HR against KC but other than that he has been pretty much non existent exept for his occasional Solo homerun. and konerko has been pretty good lately but last year he was a butcher with men in scoring position.
Getz hitting:.340
Anderson hitting:.278
Fields Hitting:.260(but before the series with the o's we hitting over .300)

Madscout
04-25-2009, 10:36 AM
you overlook the fact that Getz and anderson did well against Tallet i believe they hit the ball hard in every atbat, my point is that it is harder to give somone advice when they have been in the game 10+ years and think they know what they are doing as apposed to a young guy who either A: hasn't been succeeding or B: Is taking everything in.

if you read my post i mentioned how the tv crew talked about Walker fixing BA's swing for a good inning Sometime last week.
Maybe we should fire some of the slow running Power bats that hit homeruns only when we are up by 5 runs(im looking at you thome and Konerko). i know someone is going to point out Thome's clutch HR against KC but other than that he has been pretty much non existent exept for his occasional Solo homerun. and konerko has been pretty good lately but last year he was a butcher with men in scoring position.
Getz hitting:.340
Anderson hitting:.278
Fields Hitting:.260(but before the series with the o's we hitting over .300)
Please don't post on your blackberry. It hurts us.

thedudeabides
04-25-2009, 10:43 AM
If Greg Walker's job isn't to help players that are struggling and to help guys take the right approach, what, exactly, is the job of a hitting coach? I mean, other than bringing the pretzels to Ozzie's poker game. There are a ton of stories about Charlie Lau and Walt Hriniak working with players to improve their swing and approach. I don't remember ever hearing a single story about Greg Walker working with a player in during his tenure as a hitting coach. At all. Who has he coached? With Lau and Hriniak you could actually point to the guys they had influenced and the successes they had. Name me one guy that Greg Walker has influenced. Show me one guy who has developed in the "Greg Walker" school of hitting. Unless infield popups are a part of his hitting strategy, I haven't seen it.

Why is it whenever we face a minor league callup, we struggle? Hasn't this been a problem for Walker's entire tenure as hitting coach? Didn't we get shut down by Brian effing Tallet?

Did Art Kuysner leave the bullpen after 2005? Isn't that about the same time we started having problems in the bullpen? Wasn't he a big believer in being mentally prepared? Interesting.

I don't even know where to begin with this. You really think he just doesn't work with players. But, Ozzie keeps him around because he is his poker buddy. Ozzie is on his fourth third base coach alone in his tenure, but he keeps Walker around as a poker buddy.

If you want to call him out for him being so bad, where is your list of players he has made worse or ruined?

Whether or not you want to believe it, a lot of players have done well under Walker. Konerko won the comeback player of the year award in 2004 and credited Walker as the one who brought his career back. He then followed that up with back to back 40 homerun, 100 rbi seasons.

Tadahito Iguchi came over from Japan and had two very successful seasons under Walker before being traded. As you have seen time and time again, it is a very difficult adjustment for Japanese position players to come over, and face big league pitching. Iguchi adjusted very well. The same year Podsednik came over, and had a great approach at the plate and those two helped set the table for a world championship.

Take a look at Jermaine Dye's career. His most consistant and successful stretch of his career has been under Walker.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dyeje01.shtml

A young centerfielder, the golden boy himself, Aaron Rowand's career came to fruition under Greg Walker.

Joe Crede's numbers improved every year under Walker until his back gave out. He never really became the hitter some thought he would, but he did end up becoming an all-star and a silver slugger winner.

In his first full big league season, Carlos Quentin came over and took a run at the MVP trophy. He seems to be right back on track this year. And remember he works on his swing everywhere.

Alexei Ramirez went straight to the big leagues from Cuba, and was the runner up as the ROY. Another impressive adjustment, considering there really hasn't been that type of direct success with Cuban position players seen in quite some time.

There has been a drastic difference in approaches at the plate this year from Josh Fields and Brian Anderson. And the early returns have been good. Getz is off to a good start, as well.

Players like AJ and Thome have come over and maintained the same type of career numbers they have always had.

In his five full seasons as the hitting coach, the Sox have finished in the top five in runs, in the AL, three times. Twice in the top three. The other years 2007, the Sox were dead last, and then ninth in 2005, but I seem to remember the World Series trophy, and that being the offense all of the detractors are clamoring for.

You can choose to say all of these things happened in spite of Greg Walker if you like. But, you can't say there hasn't been success while he was the hitting coach.

HebrewHammer
04-25-2009, 11:55 AM
No, Art left in 2007. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Kusnyer

Thanks. I wasn't sure, I've been out of the country since September 2006, but I do remember him having health issues in '05 or '06.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2009, 12:13 PM
Love:

Have to disagree with you on 2005.

Podsednik was a very large part of the balance to be sure but there were others.

Example:

Stolen Bases: Six guys in double figures. Dye, Harris, Iguchi, Ozuna, Podsednik, Rowand

When you are in the top five in the league in each category... home runs, stolen bases, sacrifice flys, sacrifice bunts and infield hits. It's more then basically one guy.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2009, 12:45 PM
Love:

Have to disagree with you on 2005.

Podsednik was a very large part of the balance to be sure but there were others.

Example:

Stolen Bases: Six guys in double figures. Dye, Harris, Iguchi, Ozuna, Podsednik, Rowand

When you are in the top five in the league in each category... home runs, stolen bases, sacrifice flys, sacrifice bunts and infield hits. It's more then basically one guy.

Lip


Yeah, but how quickly did that cast look old slow and one dimensional? One season.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2009, 01:51 PM
Love:

You can make the case that the overall philosophy was changed going into 2006 based on the off season moves, or perhaps the "chemistry" simply wasn't there the next season or I guess you could say it was just the Sox year in 2005

I don't have a complete answer to your comment but to me it was clear that the "little things" were a team effort in 2005, not just one person.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
04-25-2009, 02:24 PM
Love:

You can make the case that the overall philosophy was changed going into 2006 based on the off season moves, or perhaps the "chemistry" simply wasn't there the next season or I guess you could say it was just the Sox year in 2005

I don't have a complete answer to your comment but to me it was clear that the "little things" were a team effort in 2005, not just one person.

Lip


But it started with the injection of that one spark plug. Had they rolled in another stiff for the lead off position that year, I guranteed 8-9 would have been all the same swinging out of their shoes for the fences like the rest of this decade.

The minute Pods broke down, the little things philosophy was thrown out the window.