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View Full Version : That's how breaks work sometimes...(Ricky Romero on the DL)


jabrch
04-23-2009, 02:11 PM
The Jays were scheduled to have Ricky Romero face us on Saturday. Romero is 2-0 with a 1.71 ERA and a 1.10 WHIP. He's going on the shelf.

They may move Halladay and Purcey up a day each. That would be fine with me - Purcey isn't all that good.

DonnieDarko
04-23-2009, 02:12 PM
The Jays were scheduled to have Ricky Romero face us on Saturday. Romero is 2-0 with a 1.71 ERA and a 1.10 WHIP. He's going on the shelf.

They may move Halladay and Purcey up a day each. That would be fine with me - Purcey isn't all that good. They may have to go to the farm - Kason Gabbard could come up and start? (j/k - he is a reliever down there and is not stretched out to start) I'd love to see Thomas Diamond come up and start vs Danks - 2/3 of the DVD trio from Texas Rangers fame...

More likely Doug Mathis who has a very high ERA in his few MLB starts....

Whoever replaces the guy, the million-dollar question must be asked:

Have we faced this pitcher, whoever he may be, before?

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-23-2009, 02:16 PM
Whoever replaces the guy, the million-dollar question must be asked:

Have we faced this pitcher, whoever he may be, before?

If we haven't: L

Seems to be the current track record.

johnnyg83
04-23-2009, 02:16 PM
I'm confused. Gabbard is a Ranger, no?

kittle42
04-23-2009, 02:24 PM
*Another* injury on my AL fantasy team? Goddamnit.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 02:31 PM
I'm confused. Gabbard is a Ranger, no?


Oops...my bad. Was looking at the wrong minor league roster...

Wouldn't surprise me if we saw Bullington who they somehow swiped from the Pirates and Indians. I remember when he was drafted - he was supposed to be the next big thing.

thedudeabides
04-23-2009, 02:40 PM
*Another* injury on my AL fantasy team? Goddamnit.

I just picked him up this week. :angry:

jabrch
04-23-2009, 02:47 PM
Per rotoworld - Brett Cecil

Young kid who they rushed through their system last year (threw in A, AA and AAA). Had a nice spring, but has gotten bombed so far in Las Vegas.

KenBerryGrab
04-23-2009, 03:09 PM
Will they just drop him in for the slated start?

I was hoping Doc would get moved off Sunday.

I have tickets, and Contreras vs. Halladay does not look favorable on paper.

Lip Man 1
04-23-2009, 03:46 PM
He'll probably go six against the Sox allowing a run on five hits.

Lip

Demps2
04-23-2009, 04:46 PM
If it is indeed Cecil, he is one of the better pitching prospects in the minors.

DirtySox
04-23-2009, 05:01 PM
Some changes in pitching for us too for this series.

Floyd will now pitch Friday, with Buehrle going on Saturday. (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/04/white-soxs-floyd-buehrle-switch-spots.html)

Hitmen77
04-23-2009, 05:02 PM
He'll probably go six against the Sox allowing a run on five hits.

Lip

That would not surprise me one bit.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-23-2009, 05:03 PM
He'll probably go six against the Sox allowing a run on five hits.

Lip

You think the Sox are going to rough him up that bad?

I say a shutout through 7, allowing two hits, striking out 7, and walking one.

Then in his next start, he gives up 12 runs in 0.1 innings.

TDog
04-23-2009, 05:20 PM
The myth persists of the White Sox being automatically stifled by pitchers they have never seen before.

The starting pitcher the Sox knocked around last night actually pitched better than he did in his first start against the Sox in 2007 when he gave up nine hits and six runs without getting out of the fourth inning.

The starting pitcher the Sox had never seen before Monday night came out in the sixth with the White Sox beginning to hit him pretty well. Unfortunately, the Orioles offense was running away with the game.

The White Sox don't have any more problems with pitchers they have never seen before than your average major league team -- Toronto, for example, which was shutdown (but managed to win anyway) by Gio Gonzalez in his debut before Gonzalez had a terrible performance in his home debut against the Sox.

Last April, the A's radio announcers were complaining that the A's couldn't hit John Danks as they thought they should, Danks being such a young pitcher and all (although they didn't remember that Danks had beaten the A's in 2007). I heard a complaint about the game several weeks later, Ray Fosse was so ticked that young pitchers had such a jinx on the A's hitters. I thought I was listening to the whining at WSI.

Go ahead and forget last years series against the Pirates when the Sox scored 37 runs in three games against starting pitchers they had never seen before. Remember the game in San Francisco where the Sox managed to beat the Giants only by a score of 2-0 on a late home run by Alexei Ramirez, but scored 13 runs in the Sunday game when the Giants sent Cain to the mound.

And don't forget to blame Greg Walker.

GoSox2K3
04-23-2009, 05:33 PM
The starting pitcher the Sox had never seen before Monday night came out in the sixth with the White Sox beginning to hit him pretty well. Unfortunately, the Orioles offense was running away with the game.

The White Sox don't have any more problems with pitchers they have never seen before than your average major league team -- Toronto, for example, which was shutdown (but managed to win anyway) by Gio Gonzalez in his debut before Gonzalez had a terrible performance in his home debut against the Sox.

Last April, the A's radio announcers were complaining that the A's couldn't hit John Danks ....

And don't forget to blame Greg Walker.

If that's how you explain away the Sox offensive performance on Tuesday, then I'm not surprised that you think the Sox don't have problems with unaccomplished pitchers they have never seen before.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 05:53 PM
The myth persists of the White Sox being automatically stifled by pitchers they have never seen before.

The starting pitcher the Sox knocked around last night actually pitched better than he did in his first start against the Sox in 2007 when he gave up nine hits and six runs without getting out of the fourth inning.

The starting pitcher the Sox had never seen before Monday night came out in the sixth with the White Sox beginning to hit him pretty well. Unfortunately, the Orioles offense was running away with the game.

The White Sox don't have any more problems with pitchers they have never seen before than your average major league team -- Toronto, for example, which was shutdown (but managed to win anyway) by Gio Gonzalez in his debut before Gonzalez had a terrible performance in his home debut against the Sox.

Last April, the A's radio announcers were complaining that the A's couldn't hit John Danks as they thought they should, Danks being such a young pitcher and all (although they didn't remember that Danks had beaten the A's in 2007). I heard a complaint about the game several weeks later, Ray Fosse was so ticked that young pitchers had such a jinx on the A's hitters. I thought I was listening to the whining at WSI.

Go ahead and forget last years series against the Pirates when the Sox scored 37 runs in three games against starting pitchers they had never seen before. Remember the game in San Francisco where the Sox managed to beat the Giants only by a score of 2-0 on a late home run by Alexei Ramirez, but scored 13 runs in the Sunday game when the Giants sent Cain to the mound.

And don't forget to blame Greg Walker.


Good post!

We have troubles sometimes hitting guys we have seen before.
We have troubles sometimes hitting guys we have not seen before.

We have successes sometimes hitting guys we have not seen before.
We have successes sometimes hitting guys we have seen before.

What can we conclude from this?

1) We either succeed or struggle against guys we have or have not seen before

2) The sun will rise in the east

3) Churros

The Immigrant
04-23-2009, 05:59 PM
If that's how you explain away the Sox offensive performance on Tuesday, then I'm not surprised that you think the Sox don't have problems with unaccomplished pitchers they have never seen before.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the guy on Tuesday night was throwing wicked sliders and had a plus fastball - and we still hit him well enough to win.

TDog
04-23-2009, 06:06 PM
If that's how you explain away the Sox offensive performance on Tuesday, then I'm not surprised that you think the Sox don't have problems with unaccomplished pitchers they have never seen before.

The Sox were hitting him well the second time through the order. There was an error, but the Sox made an out on the bases after two two-out hits, so things even out. Sometimes pitchers are to blame for unearned runs. If Danks had been pitching for the Sox, the Orioles pitching would have been unremarkable.

If you can't explain how the Sox last year scored 8 runs on 9 hits with 2 home runs in less than 4 innings against Gio Gonzalez (the Sox didn't even hit a foul ball until the fourth inning) or how the Sox could score 9 runs on 11 hits with 2 home runs against Phil Dumatrait, it's no wonder you believe in this myth.

The White Sox have no more problems with unaccomplished pitchers they have never seen before than the Blue Jays, for example, against whom Gio Gonzalez was nearly unhittable for much of hisdebut in Toronto.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 06:30 PM
Some changes in pitching for us too for this series.

Floyd will now pitch Friday, with Buehrle going on Saturday. (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/04/white-soxs-floyd-buehrle-switch-spots.html)


Can anyone explain this one to me? Why move them from both being on 5 days rest to Gavin on 4 and Mark on 6?

jabrch
04-24-2009, 08:20 AM
Cecil went last night in Las Vegas. Anyone hear who is going Sat for the Jays?

doublem23
04-24-2009, 08:23 AM
Go ahead and forget last years series against the Pirates when the Sox scored 37 runs in three games against starting pitchers they had never seen before. Remember the game in San Francisco where the Sox managed to beat the Giants only by a score of 2-0 on a late home run by Alexei Ramirez, but scored 13 runs in the Sunday game when the Giants sent Cain to the mound.


Those were still guys who had pitched in the Majors before, so there was tape and scouting reports available.

You get a guy who the Sox have limited data and and they apparently have no idea what to do.

doublem23
04-24-2009, 08:24 AM
Cecil went last night in Las Vegas. Anyone hear who is going Sat for the Jays?

Official site says the top 2 candidates are Cecil or Brian Burres.

jabrch
04-24-2009, 08:28 AM
Official site says the top 2 candidates are Cecil or Brian Burres.

Since Cecil went yesterday, that means it is Burres.

SoxGirl4Life
04-24-2009, 08:37 AM
Since Cecil went yesterday, that means it is Burres.

I vaguely remember the Sox facing him last year somewhere. The alliteration of the name reminded me of Britt Burns

The Immigrant
04-24-2009, 10:35 AM
I vaguely remember the Sox facing him last year somewhere. The alliteration of the name reminded me of Britt Burns

We handled him pretty well when he was with Baltimore last year: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL200808260.shtml

Lip Man 1
04-24-2009, 12:42 PM
White Sox.com says some guy named Tallet goes tonight for Toronto.

As DJ would say...uh-oh.

Lip

FielderJones
04-24-2009, 01:14 PM
White Sox.com says some guy named Tallet goes tonight for Toronto.

As DJ would say...uh-oh.

The guy (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/playerpage/370396) seems to be a middle reliever doing spot starts. ERA 4.26 is nothing special, but he has a low BAA .176. I'll be surprised if he finishes six (and I'll be there).

TDog
04-24-2009, 02:16 PM
Those were still guys who had pitched in the Majors before, so there was tape and scouting reports available.

You get a guy who the Sox have limited data and and they apparently have no idea what to do.

That is no more true for the White Sox than it is any other team. Gonzalez shut down the Blue Jays in his first major league start the week before the White Sox beat him badly.

People have been saying this for years. It was an excuse in 2000 when the White Sox were running away with the division and Joel Piniero of the Mariners in his major league debut came into Comiskey and held the White Sox to one run, a solo home run in the fifth, in his six innings of work. They forgot that earlier in the season against Jake Westbrook, making his major league debut for the Yankees, the Sox got six runs on seven hits before Joe Torre went to the bullpen with two outs in the second.

You can believe the myth that the White Sox possess this inferior trait. White Sox fans tend to have inferiority complexes when it comes to baseball, so it would be in character. Pull it out as a reason to fire coaches who you blame for the White Sox losing games.

But it is a myth.

When Brandon McCarthy pitched the first eight innings of a shutout in his first appearance against the Rangers in his rookie season, were fans saying he wasn't really that good and that he only succeeded because the Rangers had never seen him before, or were they demanding the Rangers eventually trade a couple of their pitching products to get this stud? I don't know. I make it a point to avoid Texas. But if a pitcher is ready, has his great stuff, and stays focused, he could be a problem for the White Sox. He could be a problem for any major league team.

jabrch
04-24-2009, 03:04 PM
White Sox.com says some guy named Tallet goes tonight for Toronto.

As DJ would say...uh-oh.

Lip


Sept 10, 2008, April 14, 2006, May 28, 2006, and July 21, 2003 all say hello.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7027/gamelog;_ylt=Arjtjzhar6q4TB8SCuItsD.FCLcF?year=200 9

Tallet should scare nobody.

tstrike2000
04-24-2009, 03:38 PM
*Another* injury on my AL fantasy team? Goddamnit.

Agreed, I picked him up as a sleeper candidate which sucks for me but is good for us. One of those stranged left oblique's from sneezing while listening to rap music injuries....according to the Toronto Star.

doublem23
04-24-2009, 04:03 PM
Sept 10, 2008, April 14, 2006, May 28, 2006, and July 21, 2003 all say hello.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7027/gamelog;_ylt=Arjtjzhar6q4TB8SCuItsD.FCLcF?year=200 9

Tallet should scare nobody.

They just got blanked by a guy with an ERA pushing 12. The Sox offense should scare nobody today.

jabrch
04-24-2009, 04:47 PM
They just got blanked by a guy with an ERA pushing 12. The Sox offense should scare nobody today.

Cleveland is 2nd in the AL in runs scored. Brian Bannister, of the 4.73 career ERA fame, shut them out Wednesday. Does that mean that they aren't an offense that should scare someone?

Our offense is 8th of 14 in runs scored in the AL. I don't think anyone is proposing it as scarey - so your denial of its scariness is not really needed. But my point still stands. Our offense has no reason to be scared of Brian Tallet. I have no idea what the result will be - we could kill him, or get blanked - that's the nature of baseball. But are you scared of Brian Tallet? Sunday, vs Roy Halladay, is a different story. (and again - although I am afraid of him we could easily hit him if we have a good day - Sept 10 2008 says hello or we could get blanked as he has also done to us.)

Lip Man 1
04-24-2009, 06:49 PM
Double:

Well said.

------------

There's an old saying, 'if something happens once, it's a fluke...twice it's coincidence, three or more times, you've got a problem.'

The White Sox have issues overall (and have since 2000) with mediocre / junkballing / rookie/ bad starting pitchers. (Pick whatever adjective works best for you...)

Since we're pointing out specifics, how about last year before the break where Texas brought a kid up from Double A for an emergency start and made the Sox look foolish.

Do the Sox win some games against these type of pitchers...of course, they have to...do they lose more then their 'fair share'? Hard to say without doing a study of the other teams, but here's the point.

As the Sox showed last season, championships can be won or lost by one single game. (i.e. 2008 and 1964) They increase their chances by beating the snot out of garbage pitchers which is what they should be doing, but often aren't because of the 'home run or nothing' philosophy.

When you cut through the 'examples and such', THAT's what this discussion comes down to.

I mean they've already lost games this year to pitchers like R.A. Dickey and B. Bergesen. Not exactly All-Stars or future Hall of Famers there. (I'd throw in Kyle Davies as well but I can see where some would say he's not a bad pitcher.)

Those games add up down the line.

I about fell out of my chair when I heard the Orioles announcers talking about this very same point before Bergesen made the Sox look impotent.

Lip

Hitmen77
04-25-2009, 12:32 AM
Double:

Well said.

------------

There's an old saying, 'if something happens once, it's a fluke...twice it's coincidence, three or more times, you've got a problem.'

The White Sox have issues overall (and have since 2000) with mediocre / junkballing / rookie/ bad starting pitchers. (Pick whatever adjective works best for you...)

Since we're pointing out specifics, how about last year before the break where Texas brought a kid up from Double A for an emergency start and made the Sox look foolish.

Do the Sox win some games against these type of pitchers...of course, they have to...do they lose more then their 'fair share'? Hard to say without doing a study of the other teams, but here's the point.

As the Sox showed last season, championships can be won or lost by one single game. (i.e. 2008 and 1964) They increase their chances by beating the snot out of garbage pitchers which is what they should be doing, but often aren't because of the 'home run or nothing' philosophy.

When you cut through the 'examples and such', THAT's what this discussion comes down to.

I mean they've already lost games this year to pitchers like R.A. Dickey and B. Bergesen. Not exactly All-Stars or future Hall of Famers there. (I'd throw in Kyle Davies as well but I can see where some would say he's not a bad pitcher.)

Those games add up down the line.

I about fell out of my chair when I heard the Orioles announcers talking about this very same point before Bergesen made the Sox look impotent.

Lip

....and it's interesting how our rookie/bad/mediocre pitchers never seem to fool anyone.:angry:

Too bad Egbert wasn't facing the White Sox tonight. Maybe he would have shut them down and it would be "understandable" because the Sox never saw him before.

TDog
04-26-2009, 01:12 AM
....and it's interesting how our rookie/bad/mediocre pitchers never seem to fool anyone.:angry:

Too bad Egbert wasn't facing the White Sox tonight. Maybe he would have shut them down and it would be "understandable" because the Sox never saw him before.

Of course, the reason tonight's Toronto starter didn't shut down the Sox is that they Sox have seen him before -- just as the Sox had seen Friday night's Toronto pitcher.

The thing is, that when Brian Burres made his first start against the White Sox in 2007, he gave up seven earned runs and only retired four batters although the Sox had never seen him before and he was a young unaccomplished pitcher. So apparently he is showing improvement.

Unaccomplished young White Sox pitchers in fact sometimes have have some surprisingly good starts in recent years. Brandon McCarthy had a few. John Danks had a couple of his most impressive rookie starts at the beginning of his rookie season. Nick Massett had a great start against the Cubs in his first year with the White Sox while still a rookie. It was his only start that season. Clayton Richard had a great start against the Mariners last year, pitching six scoreless innings in an eventual White Sox shutout win.

Regardless, averages don't mean much, especially in April. A pitcher who comes into a game with an ERA of 8, 10 or 12 shouldn't be expected to give up runs in every inning he pitches any more than Carlos Quentin should be expected to end the season hitting .240.