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jabrch
04-21-2009, 11:28 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=287891

Per the Herald and Scot Gregor, he could beat the estimates. It will be interesting based on how Brian is doing at the time how OG handles it.

LoveYourSuit
04-21-2009, 11:39 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=287891

Per the Herald and Scot Gregor, he could beat the estimates. It will be interesting based on how Brian is doing at the time how OG handles it.


I hope they don't rush Wise.

I want Anderson to get at least a 2 month shot here to once and for all see what he's got. Make or Break time for Brian.

Dibbs
04-21-2009, 11:40 AM
I say give him at least the full two months to make sure he is properly healed. Maybe three.

kittle42
04-21-2009, 11:41 AM
Please just leave Anderson in. It's not like Wise is an upgrade.

oeo
04-21-2009, 11:43 AM
Let's not spawn up another Wise-Anderson debate. The shoulder injury could be a problem for Wise the rest of the year. Maybe he "feels" okay, but we'll see how the results are with the bat.

I think Nix is going to get called up for Owens and there may end up being no room for Wise, anyway.

ChiSoxFan81
04-21-2009, 11:47 AM
No need to rush Wise back. We still need time for Brian to fail and see what Scotty Pods can do.

dickallen15
04-21-2009, 11:49 AM
Its amazing how much excitement Nix brings to some after 17 AB in SPRING TRAINING. Early spring training AB at that. The guy was DFA'd by Colorado twice last year I believe and was released. I think people take results on March 3rd way too seriously.

oeo
04-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Its amazing how much excitement Nix brings to some after 17 AB in SPRING TRAINING. Early spring training AB at that. The guy was DFA'd by Colorado twice last year I believe and was released. I think people take results on March 3rd way too seriously.

Excitement? I didn't know I had a few exclamation points and a dancing banana in my post...

He's a good defender, with good speed, that has shown an improvement in his offense the last couple of years. Your other option is Jerry Owens...come on. Whether you like it or not, the Sox are trying Nix at SS right now. That's a sign to me that they want him as a utility man.

dickallen15
04-21-2009, 11:56 AM
Excitement? I didn't know I had a few exclamation points and a dancing banana in my post...

He's a good defender, with good speed, that showed a bit of offense. Your other option is Jerry Owens...come on.

17 AB the first couple weeks of March is not showing a bit of offense. He's a strikeout machine who was released by Colorado. He plays 2B. The Sox seem to have that covered. Do you want to get Brent Lillibridge and his .150 BA more AB? This guy with all upside wasn't claimed by anyone. Of course Owens is the same way. Maybe the Sox and their fans should aim a little higher.

jabrch
04-21-2009, 11:56 AM
I think Nix is going to get called up for Owens and there may end up being no room for Wise, anyway.

Does Nix play OF? Does he play CF? We need to have a 4th OF, and preferably someone who would be able to go into CF if we need to PH for whomever starts in CF.

oeo
04-21-2009, 11:59 AM
17 AB the first couple weeks of March is not showing a bit of offense. He's a strikeout machine who was released by Colorado. He plays 2B. The Sox seem to have that covered. Do you want to get Brent Lillibridge and his .150 BA more AB? This guy with all upside wasn't claimed by anyone. Of course Owens is the same way. Maybe the Sox and their fans should aim a little higher.

Maybe someone should stop freaking out over something that was never said? I never implied that I wanted Nix starting. He's a utility man, just like Brent.

Who exactly are you defending here? Jerry Owens? Dewayne Wise? Both?

Does Nix play OF? Does he play CF? We need to have a 4th OF, and preferably someone who would be able to go into CF if we need to PH for whomever starts in CF.

Lillibridge can play CF. Again, your other option is Jerry Owens.

It's Dankerific
04-21-2009, 12:02 PM
of course Wise is in a hurry to get back. this was his first starting job and every day it slips further away while he is hurt. can't blame him, not at all.

dickallen15
04-21-2009, 12:31 PM
Maybe someone should stop freaking out over something that was never said? I never implied that I wanted Nix starting. He's a utility man, just like Brent.

Who exactly are you defending here? Jerry Owens? Dewayne Wise? Both?



Lillibridge can play CF. Again, your other option is Jerry Owens.

I hate Owens, but he's better than Nix. If Anderson, Owens, any White Sox hit like Jayson Nix did with the Rockies last season, you would write them off. Its like the back up QB for the Bears. With some White Sox it doesn't matter how little their potential replacements have ever shown or are capable of, some just can't wait to see them. Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge are Craig Krensel and Moses Moreno.

oeo
04-21-2009, 12:37 PM
I hate Owens, but he's better than Nix. If Anderson, Owens, any White Sox hit like Jayson Nix did with the Rockies last season, you would write them off. Its like the back up QB for the Bears. With some White Sox it doesn't matter how little their potential replacements have ever shown or are capable of, some just can't wait to see them. Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge are Craig Krensel and Moses Moreno.

You mean all 56 AB's? Nix put up some good numbers in AAA last year, I see no reason why you would think Owens is better. Nix is almost three years younger, and has shown more promise as a hitter. And not the lucky bull**** Owens calls hitting.

And wow, now that ****ty backup QB argument is being brought up in Sox talk? I think we get more out of a Lillibridge-Nix combo than a Lillibridge-Owens combo. That's it. Apparently you had to sound off over nothing. I guess it must have been my giddy, excited post about how Nix was going to become an All Star. :scratch:

dickallen15
04-21-2009, 12:44 PM
You mean all 56 AB's? Nix put up some good numbers in AAA last year, I see no reason why you would think Owens is better. Nix is almost three years younger, and has shown more promise as a hitter. And not the lucky bull**** Owens calls hitting.

And wow, now that ****ty backup QB argument is being brought up in Sox talk? I think we get more out of a Lillibridge-Nix combo than a Lillibridge-Owens combo. That's it. Apparently you had to sound off over nothing. I guess it must have been my giddy, excited post about how Nix was going to become an All Star. :scratch:
Colorado Springs and your 3rd year of AAA combine to produce big numbers. His batting average was still below the team's average. He cannot hit major league pitching.

oeo
04-21-2009, 12:48 PM
Colorado Springs and your 3rd year of AAA combine to produce big numbers. His batting average was still below the team's average. He cannot hit major league pitching.

Neither can Jerry Owens. I don't get your point here. I'm not trying to make Nix out to be something he's not (apparently you read my first post as: "Jayson Nix is best thing since sliced bread"). I'd like him as a UTILITY MAN to make our bench a little bit more dynamic.

doublem23
04-21-2009, 01:03 PM
Neither can Jerry Owens. I don't get your point here. I'm not trying to make Nix out to be something he's not (apparently you read my first post as: "Jayson Nix is best thing since sliced bread"). I'd like him as a UTILITY MAN to make our bench a little bit more dynamic.

We already have 2 b/u infielders, sans Owens/Wise who is the 4th OF?

It's Dankerific
04-21-2009, 01:22 PM
We already have 2 b/u infielders, sans Owens/Wise who is the 4th OF?

Brian has been resting for 2 years, he doesn't need anymore =)

Redus Redux
04-21-2009, 01:35 PM
Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge are Craig Krensel and Moses Moreno.

Some guys figure something out even later in their careers than these guys. Ludwick, Podsednik...

It's not enough to grant them anything, but it's not a closed book on BL or Nix either. It's a far cry from QB where you know right off the bat whether they're good or crap.

voodoochile
04-21-2009, 01:48 PM
We already have 2 b/u infielders, sans Owens/Wise who is the 4th OF?

Can Betemit play a corner OF position? If so, Lillibridge can be the BU CF and that gives the team even more flexibility.

JB98
04-21-2009, 01:52 PM
I'm with oeo on this. If Nix can show some versatility and prove he's healthy on his rehab stint, I would rather have him on the roster than Owens.

Lillibridge can play CF in a pinch. Eventually, Wise will come back. He can be the fourth outfielder, or resume the starting role if Anderson fails in the meantime.

LoveYourSuit
04-21-2009, 02:17 PM
Can Betemit play a corner OF position? If so, Lillibridge can be the BU CF and that gives the team even more flexibility.

Can Betemit just go away?

I don't like that guy. His glove is going to cost big time one of these days on his once per week spot start.

I can live with a liability with the glove as long as he brings great hitting potential as a PH, but he sucks at the dish too.

Britt Burns
04-21-2009, 02:19 PM
Take your time Wise...no rush...

asindc
04-21-2009, 02:30 PM
Can Betemit just go away?

I don't like that guy. His glove is going to cost big time one of these days on his once per week spot start.

I can live with a liability with the glove as long as he brings great hitting potential as a PH, but he sucks at the dish too.

I agree. He seems like a guy who got lost on his way to the sucky team he is supposed to be playing for.

Soxfest
04-21-2009, 04:44 PM
I see no reason for Wise except as a 5th OF at best!

thedudeabides
04-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Can Betemit play a corner OF position? If so, Lillibridge can be the BU CF and that gives the team even more flexibility.

Not sure, but he can't play any IF positions, so I can't imagine he'd hurt us worse in say LF. :tongue:

Konerko05
04-21-2009, 05:13 PM
Not sure, but he can't play any IF positions, so I can't imagine he'd hurt us worse in say LF. :tongue:

Put him in CF.

Frankfan4life
04-21-2009, 07:01 PM
I hope Wise gets well soon and returns as an everyday player. He was just showing signs of coming out of his slump before he got injured. He deserves a chance to show what he's got. I also hope that Sox fans will be patient with him and not jump all over him if he doesn't get a hit in his first few games.

CLR01
04-21-2009, 07:05 PM
Does Nix play OF? Does he play CF? We need to have a 4th OF, and preferably someone who would be able to go into CF if we need to PH for whomever starts in CF.

Since when has being able to play CF been a requirement to play CF on this team?

BleacherBandit
04-21-2009, 07:14 PM
Since when has being able to play CF been a requirement to play CF on this team?

There was a day, and it was before 2006.

russ99
04-21-2009, 07:18 PM
Maybe someone should stop freaking out over something that was never said? I never implied that I wanted Nix starting. He's a utility man, just like Brent.

Who exactly are you defending here? Jerry Owens? Dewayne Wise? Both?

Lillibridge can play CF. Again, your other option is Jerry Owens.

Saying that Lillibridge is an option in CF is an insult to Jerry Owens. Go ahead and roll out the usual half-truths about how he can't hit the ball out of the infield (which he did in his only Sox at bat in 2009) that he can't hit the second baseman on a direct throw and that he's made of glass...

And not directed to oeo, but the posters in general: Seriously, what's with all the hate? These guys are what they are.

Owens is a 5th outfielder/pinch runner, Lillibridge is the super-utility guy taking over for Ozuna, just like Ozzie and Kenny envisioned. And Nix had a very good minor league career before last year's bad stint with the Rockies.

All three are doubtful as regular starters but all three can help the team.

Also, let's see if Wise is healthy before getting into a tizzy about the perceived injustices done to Anderson.

oeo
04-21-2009, 07:54 PM
Saying that Lillibridge is an option in CF is an insult to Jerry Owens. Go ahead and roll out the usual half-truths about how he can't hit the ball out of the infield (which he did in his only Sox at bat in 2009) that he can't hit the second baseman on a direct throw and that he's made of glass...

And not directed to oeo, but the posters in general: Seriously, what's with all the hate? These guys are what they are.

Owens is a 5th outfielder/pinch runner, Lillibridge is the super-utility guy taking over for Ozuna, just like Ozzie and Kenny envisioned. And Nix had a very good minor league career before last year's bad stint with the Rockies.

All three are doubtful as regular starters but all three can help the team.

Also, let's see if Wise is healthy before getting into a tizzy about the perceived injustices done to Anderson.

Wow. Do some of you read something other than what I'm typing? Let me know what I typed that said any of the three guys were more than bench guys. I think adding Nix can give us a better option at 3B than Betemit, another guy that can play up the middle, and Lillibridge can play up the middle and in CF, as well. I think it makes the bench more dynamic rather than having Jerry Owens, who is really only an option in CF due to his arm. That's all I said.

Lord, I don't think I've ever seen so much defense of bad players.

soxinem1
04-21-2009, 08:13 PM
Please just leave Anderson in. It's not like Wise is an upgrade.

Ditto.

Jeckle2000
04-23-2009, 02:52 AM
I hope Wise gets well soon and returns as an everyday player. He was just showing signs of coming out of his slump before he got injured. He deserves a chance to show what he's got. I also hope that Sox fans will be patient with him and not jump all over him if he doesn't get a hit in his first few games.

Brian Anderson is finally starting to hit, also managing to take a decent amount of walks at the same time and you want to put Wise right back into the starting lineup because he had gotten a couple of singles and managed to raise his average to .238? Given Wise's extensive history of failure at both the major and minor league levels, far more then Brian Anderson, I don't understand why so many people are willing to give him any more chances. Last season's turning point was when Jerry Owens got hurt and it allowed Carlos Quentin to get into the lineup. People need to realize that DeWayne Wise getting hurt was the best thing that could have happened to this team.

Konerko05
04-23-2009, 03:05 AM
People need to realize that DeWayne Wise getting hurt was the best thing that could have happened to this team.

Really? I'm sure you could think of better things to happen to this team. You know, things that do not cause physical pain and put a player's career in jeopardy.

HomeFish
04-23-2009, 03:51 AM
There was a day, and it was before 2006.

When the White Sox first acquired Carl Everett in 2003, it was in the hope that he would be able to play CENTER Field.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 08:37 AM
People need to realize that DeWayne Wise getting hurt was the best thing that could have happened to this team.

Congrats! You have earned jabrch's SPOTW! There is a lot of competition for this award - but you have differentiated yourself from the pack by celebrating openly, and encouraging other people to do the same, the fact that a Sox player got injured.

CashMan
04-23-2009, 09:50 AM
I hate Owens, but he's better than Nix. If Anderson, Owens, any White Sox hit like Jayson Nix did with the Rockies last season, you would write them off. Its like the back up QB for the Bears. With some White Sox it doesn't matter how little their potential replacements have ever shown or are capable of, some just can't wait to see them. Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge are Craig Krensel and Moses Moreno.



As much as this pains me to say, because I HATE this man with a passion, Juan Uribe did not start hitting until he left Colorado. As for Lillibridge, don't put him down like that! He has speed, what did Krensel and Moreno have?

Jeckle2000
04-23-2009, 02:31 PM
Congrats! You have earned jabrch's SPOTW! There is a lot of competition for this award - but you have differentiated yourself from the pack by celebrating openly, and encouraging other people to do the same, the fact that a Sox player got injured.

It's too bad that he had to get hurt but it only helps the team, and I mean drastically helps the team. So I'm not going to be disappointed in something that makes the White Sox into a better team. DeWayne Wise sucks and he has always sucked.

kittle42
04-23-2009, 02:35 PM
It's too bad that he had to get hurt but it only helps the team, and I mean drastically helps the team. So I'm not going to be disappointed in something that makes the White Sox into a better team. DeWayne Wise sucks and he has always sucked.

Yes, Wise sucks and always has, but "drastically" helps the team? Did the Sox get Sizemore or someone to replace him?

The delusion continues.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 02:44 PM
It's too bad that he had to get hurt but it only helps the team, and I mean drastically helps the team. So I'm not going to be disappointed in something that makes the White Sox into a better team. DeWayne Wise sucks and he has always sucked.

That's so completely ridiculous I don't know what to say.

I don't see how we are helped by having Owens up from AAA and Pods have to be signed in AAA. I don't see how we are helped by having less available "talent" to choose from.

To be happy that (assumedly) your team is worse off is insane. To think we are better off without DW, replacing him with JO and replacing JO with Pods is ignorant.

SPOTW for you sir. SPOTM is available, but CashMan is the heavy favorite amongst posts I have read for openly acknowleging that he wanted to see both Wise and McDougal fail.

Madscout
04-23-2009, 05:47 PM
Let's be clear, nobody is suggesting we replace our 9hole hitter who is hitting .270 with an .400 obp, are they? When was the last time we had that with good gf defense? When wise comes back, he is on the pine where he belongs.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 05:49 PM
Let's be clear, nobody is suggesting we replace our 9hole hitter who is hitting .270 with an .400 obp, are they? When was the last time we had that with good gf defense? When wise comes back, he is on the pine where he belongs.


I don't see anyone suggesting that. I would say that the sample size is very small and it is unsafe to conclude he will hit .270 and have an OBP of .400. If he manages to somehow do that, I couldn't imagine anyone who would suggest he not stay there.

Madscout
04-23-2009, 06:15 PM
I hope Wise gets well soon and returns as an everyday player. He was just showing signs of coming out of his slump before he got injured. He deserves a chance to show what he's got. I also hope that Sox fans will be patient with him and not jump all over him if he doesn't get a hit in his first few games.

I don't see anyone suggesting that. I would say that the sample size is very small and it is unsafe to conclude he will hit .270 and have an OBP of .400. If he manages to somehow do that, I couldn't imagine anyone who would suggest he not stay there.
See above.

I understand the small sample size, but let's look at what he has done in that small sample size.

Raise average to acceptable level...check
Walked more...check
Have better ABs...check
Cut down on SO...check
Have good OBS...check

If minimum two of those things continue to happen, I see no reason he should stay in. He has been hitting, Wise didn't. He has played great defense for us in the outfield, Wise doesn't. He has done everything asked of him, Wise didn't do anything asked of him, nor anything that we expected him to do. If this all changes, give a healthy Wise a shot.

mcfish
04-23-2009, 06:22 PM
See above.

I understand the small sample size, but let's look at what he has done in that small sample size.

Raise average to acceptable level...check
Walked more...check
Have better ABs...check
Cut down on SO...check
Have good OBS...check

If minimum two of those things continue to happen, I see no reason he should stay in. He has been hitting, Wise didn't. He has played great defense for us in the outfield, Wise doesn't. He has done everything asked of him, Wise didn't do anything asked of him, nor anything that we expected him to do. If this all changes, give a healthy Wise a shot.I am shocked... in his first opportunity to play full time since 2006 he has shown impovement? I thought the way you played your first full year was the way you were destined to play forever.

jabrch
04-23-2009, 06:23 PM
See above.

I understand the small sample size, but let's look at what he has done in that small sample size.

Raise average to acceptable level...check
Walked more...check
Have better ABs...check
Cut down on SO...check
Have good OBS...check

If minimum two of those things continue to happen, I see no reason he should stay in. He has been hitting, Wise didn't. He has played great defense for us in the outfield, Wise doesn't. He has done everything asked of him, Wise didn't do anything asked of him, nor anything that we expected him to do. If this all changes, give a healthy Wise a shot.

I hope Franklin wouldn't suggest putting Wise into the starting lineup if BA met the criteria you specified. I can't tell from his post.

The two that you listed that I feel have to happen to warrant staying in the lineup, as far as I am concerned, are the outputs. Raise his average and walk more. He has done both - quite well. As I have said in many threads. If he can hit .250 with a .330 OBP, I'd see no reason he shouldn't still be in the lineup as the regular CF. (That doesn't mean he NEVER sits. But that means he plays 5ish games a week.)

I have said a number of times, I will cheer for whomever is playing CF for the Sox and hope they play better than every CF we have had in the past few years - because none of them, incluiding Brian, have had enough successes with us with the exception of Crash's mostly his awesome season in 04. (.310/.361/.544 while playing at least average, if not slightly better CF)

Jeckle2000
04-23-2009, 06:35 PM
That's so completely ridiculous I don't know what to say.

I don't see how we are helped by having Owens up from AAA and Pods have to be signed in AAA. I don't see how we are helped by having less available "talent" to choose from.

To be happy that (assumedly) your team is worse off is insane. To think we are better off without DW, replacing him with JO and replacing JO with Pods is ignorant.

SPOTW for you sir. SPOTM is available, but CashMan is the heavy favorite amongst posts I have read for openly acknowleging that he wanted to see both Wise and McDougal fail.

I would agree with you if Ozzie could do what was right and keep Wise on the bench and as a fourth outfielder. However he can't and won't. Brian Anderson needs to be starting in CF as long as he's hitting. Wise is and always has been an awful player. If we designated him for assignment I would be willing to bet that no one would touch him. He sucks. And Owens really is no worse then Wise. The only difference is one managed to get on a fluky hot streak least year. However if you think that's the real DeWayne Wise then maybe you should take a look at his entire minor league history... Also I don't think anyone in baseball would accuse Wise of being a "talent." His production would be easily replaceable.

Tragg
04-23-2009, 07:13 PM
I would agree with you if Ozzie could do what was right and keep Wise on the bench and as a fourth outfielder. However he can't and won't.
And that's the problem. A .301 obp from Wise is "tremendous". Erstad is a ".400 hitter".
With that crazy evaluation of skills you've got to get them off the team. Otherwise they're playing - how can Ozzie possibly leave "Tremendous" and ".400 hitters" on the bench?

People mention sample sizes. The largest available sample sizes are Wise's work in the minors and in the majors.

jabrch
04-24-2009, 04:02 PM
I would agree with you if Ozzie could do what was right and keep Wise on the bench and as a fourth outfielder.

"right" is a highly subjective evaluation and depends largely on what BA does.

However he can't and won't.

What are the winning numbers to next week's lottery?

Brian Anderson needs to be starting in CF as long as he's hitting.

I haven't seen (m)any posters propose that if BA can hit .270 that he shouldn't be in the lineup 5-6 games a week or more.

Wise is and always has been an awful player.

Nobody argues this point. The question is if BA can do anything more than the awfulness he has done in his first 600 ABs.

If we designated him for assignment I would be willing to bet that no one would touch him. He sucks. And Owens really is no worse then Wise.

BA is a career .223/.282/.374 hitter. That sucks too.


We have three (or more) bad options. Some people seem to have a strong passion for BA - that's fine. Nobody (or almost nobody) has a strong passion for the other two. You won't hear (m)any people saying that Wise or Owens SHOULD play every day. What you hear is people saying that all of these options are bad and that we need someone to do more than they have in their career to earn the right to have this job. Otherwise, if we get their career averages, they are interchangable crap and we can ride whomever gets hot and platoon them all year and get virtually interchangeable performance at the dish.