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View Full Version : So do we all agree that trading Nick Swisher was a mistake?


Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 04:51 PM
I think he has a great chance of a rebounding year this year. He is a hell of alot better option than Anderson or Wise.

skobabe8
04-17-2009, 04:52 PM
No.

Don't believe me? Put up a poll. He's not playing CF for the Yanks. If we had a need for a RF/1B, things would be different.

DSpivack
04-17-2009, 04:53 PM
I think trading for him in the first place was a mistake, but not trading him to NY.

DaveFeelsRight
04-17-2009, 04:53 PM
at this point, it was.

scarsofthumper
04-17-2009, 04:55 PM
Nope.

It's one week.

russ99
04-17-2009, 04:56 PM
Had Ozzie not misused him at leadoff for the first half of the year, I believe he would have had a much better year.

I'm certain he would have been a better option at #9 than Wise or Anderson, but then again I doubt Kenny could have carried that much salary for that spot in the lineup.

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-17-2009, 04:56 PM
No, but what we got for him was a mistake, at least so far.

spawn
04-17-2009, 04:57 PM
No, because there is absolutely no guarantee he'd have this start to the season if he were playing for the Sox.

beasly213
04-17-2009, 04:58 PM
No the season just started. And again like others said he doesn't play CF or lead off.

asindc
04-17-2009, 04:59 PM
I think trading for him in the first place was a mistake, but not trading him to NY.

No. What he said.

kobo
04-17-2009, 04:59 PM
No. One week does not make up for an entire season of suck.

ewokpelts
04-17-2009, 05:04 PM
No.

His attitude is what soured Guillen to him. Not his low average or subpar CF skills.

Sargeant79
04-17-2009, 05:04 PM
I think trading for him in the first place was a mistake, but not trading him to NY.

Absolutely. And I say this freely admitting that I thought getting him from the A's would be a good move. Hindsight is 20/20.

oeo
04-17-2009, 05:04 PM
I hate that we dealt the farm to get him, and got comparable crap back in return for him, but he fits nowhere in the organization's present or future, so the Sox had to move on.

SOXfnNlansing
04-17-2009, 05:05 PM
Swisher made a big splash with the Sox in the first week or two last season also.

jdm2662
04-17-2009, 05:06 PM
How quickly we forget Swisher got off to a good start last for the Sox, and after three weeks, his average took a nose dive. It's one week. Give it time. And no, I don't miss Swisher and his I'm cool antics and taking strike three.

hi im skot
04-17-2009, 05:11 PM
Nope.

TDog
04-17-2009, 05:13 PM
No, of course not.

If Nick Swisher were on the White Sox, Quentin would be in left, Dye would be in right, Konerko would be at first and Thome would be DHing.

If Swisher were starting every day, he would be playing center mostly. The Sox can do better defensively with the current roster. A lot of Swisher fans (a phenomenon I didn't understand even when he was in Oakland) will tell you he was bad last year (except for a few weeks where he was very, very good) because he was playing out of position, although the White Sox picked him up to play center. Assuming Swisher were playing center and hitting as well as he has with the Yankees, I wouldn't expect it to continue.

I expect him to end up hitting below .250 with 20-something home runs for the Yankees this year. I looked at the results of today's game, and he didn't do anything. It looks like he didn't take his bat off his shoulder when he came up with two on and two out with his team losing in a close game. He walked, and the next hitter made an out to end the inning. Otherwise he didn't reach base and was called out on strikes once.

The only mistake the White Sox made with Nick Swisher was trading for him in the first place. I believed that before he ever played a game in the silver and black, and I have seen nothing to change my mind.

ewokpelts
04-17-2009, 05:18 PM
I hate that we dealt the farm to get him, and got comparable crap back in return for him, but he fits nowhere in the organization's present or future, so the Sox had to move on.
On paper, it was a good move. We had cost control(swisher's deal was 27 mil for 5 years) and an option at 1B when konerko's gone.


However, he underperformed and his attitude stunk when griffey was brought in.

voodoochile
04-17-2009, 05:19 PM
No, of course not.

If Nick Swisher were on the White Sox, Quentin would be in left, Dye would be in right, Konerko would be at first and Thome would be DHing.

If Swisher were starting every day, he would be playing center mostly. The Sox can do better defensively with the current roster. A lot of Swisher fans (a phenomenon I didn't understand even when he was in Oakland) will tell you he was bad last year (except for a few weeks where he was very, very good) because he was playing out of position, although the White Sox picked him up to play center. Assuming Swisher were playing center and hitting as well as he has with the Yankees, I wouldn't expect it to continue.

I expect him to end up hitting below .250 with 20-something home runs for the Yankees this year. I looked at the results of today's game, and he didn't do anything. It looks like he didn't take his bat off his shoulder when he came up with two on and two out with his team losing in a close game. He walked, and the next hitter made an out to end the inning. Otherwise he didn't reach base and was called out on strikes once.

The only mistake the White Sox made with Nick Swisher was trading for him in the first place. I believed that before he ever played a game in the silver and black, and I have seen nothing to change my mind.

And they're off to a great start collectively too.

I wasn't keen on trading Swisher. I figure he's bound to hit better this year. I doubt he'll continue to put up an OPS over 1.5 though, so I'm not that worried about it.

I agree that the reason he got traded had as much to do with his pouting at the end of the season as anything else. I also agree he needed to be benched last year as he just wasn't getting it done.

I wish him the best. I don't particularly bemoan his being gone.

seventyseven
04-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Given the way his salary accelerates over the next few years, no.

NLaloosh
04-17-2009, 05:23 PM
I find this hole discussion very interesting. We may not know if trading for him or trading him away were good or bad moves for years from now.

So far, Sweeney, Gio and DLS have done nothing. Swisher didn't pan out when the Sox had him. The guys that came from the Yankees haven't done anything yet.

Maybe the whole thing will just end up a push.

One thing that is for sure is that the Sox have been having a very rough time finding a CFer or a leadoff hitter ever since the 2005 season.

When will that change ?

areilly
04-17-2009, 05:24 PM
Not for a second. The Sox need a CF and leadoff hitter. Swisher, as we all saw firsthand, is neither.

WhiteSox1989
04-17-2009, 05:27 PM
I like Swisher but I was happy when he got traded.

ewokpelts
04-17-2009, 05:29 PM
I just feel bad for all those people that bought $30 dirty 30 shirts.

WhiteSox1989
04-17-2009, 05:34 PM
I just feel bad for all those people that bought $30 dirty 30 shirts.

Or all the people who bought Swisher jerseys...

ewokpelts
04-17-2009, 05:36 PM
Or all the people who bought Swisher jerseys...not those guys. $200 for a jersey is a steep commitment. you have to stand by your shame. $30 on a tshirt not so bad.


mind you, I bought a Swisher shirt this year. for $5.

doublem23
04-17-2009, 05:40 PM
It was either Swisher or Konerko, and I'm sure moving Paul would have basically been impossible.

khan
04-17-2009, 05:47 PM
I find this hole discussion very interesting.
Don't you mean "whole?"


So far, Sweeney, Gio and DLS have done nothing.
I don't know, Sweeney's .350 OBP + Sweeney's average defense + Gio and DLS still being available in this organization sounds a lot better than anything that has happened to CF since then. But maybe I'm setting the bar too low.


Maybe the whole thing will just end up a push.
I think that would be a HUGE upgrade from where the CF situation is right now.

IMO, it wasn't a mistake to trade Swisher away, but it was a mistake to trade FOR Swisher in the first place, AND for OG to [once again] try to force a player well outside his comfort zone.

doublem23
04-17-2009, 05:54 PM
IMO, it wasn't a mistake to trade Swisher away, but it was a mistake to trade FOR Swisher in the first place, AND for OG to [once again] try to force a player well outside his comfort zone.

The Swisher deal, IMO, became a mistake when Carlos Quentin turned out to be an MVP candidate, if TCQ didn't pan out then the Sox would be in good shape with Swisher/Whatever/Dye in the OF, but once Carlos claimed LF he make Swisher superfluous.

balke
04-17-2009, 06:01 PM
Absolutely not. Dye and Quentin are fine with me. Swisher in CF? No thanks.

Swisher will do well in NY because he gets so much attention there IMO. He likes being a star and will try that much harder to be the best player in NYC so they all love him. Nothing wrong with that.

IF he continues what he's doing (which I doubt) I would only feel a little bad because he could replace Dye or Konerko in the future. If he plays like last season, I'm ecstatic the Sox shed 21 million dollars of payroll.

tm1119
04-17-2009, 06:04 PM
The whole Swisher situation was one huge mistake. Trading 2 young SP's with high ceilings, and a guy who most likely would be our starting CF right now for Swisher was a mistake. And trading Swisher for essentially nothing was also a big mistake. I would rather have kept him around this year and used him as a super sub at all 3 OF positions, 1B, and DH rather than trade him for nothing.

And Swisher is most likely going to hit around .250 with 20 HRs 75 RBI' with a .370 OBP. Anybody who thinks the Swisher we saw last year is the real Swisher is kidding themselves.

hi im skot
04-17-2009, 06:08 PM
IMO, it wasn't a mistake to trade Swisher away, but it was a mistake to trade FOR Swisher in the first place, AND for OG to [once again] try to force a player well outside his comfort zone.

How is this Ozzie's fault? Swisher knew exactly what to expect when he came in.

areilly
04-17-2009, 06:11 PM
I don't know, Sweeney's .350 OBP + Sweeney's average defense + Gio and DLS still being available in this organization sounds a lot better than anything that has happened to CF since then. But maybe I'm setting the bar too low.

Well said. This post made me smile.

"Dye with the catch, Swish with the worm, I can't stand it!" You and me both, Hawkeroo.

WhiteSox5187
04-17-2009, 06:27 PM
No, I regret trading FOR him in the first place. He got off to a great start last year too.

hawkjt
04-17-2009, 06:33 PM
Losing Sweeney is the only thing I regret about the whole Swisher debacle.
I think Sweeney could fit in center field for the sox this year but alas...but,as was said, the TCQ deal ended up more than making up for it.

khan
04-17-2009, 06:37 PM
How is this Ozzie's fault? Swisher knew exactly what to expect when he came in.

I'm merely pointing out what is [IMO] one of OG's shortcomings. He has a tendency to mis-scout his own people at times. In turn, he puts people into positions to fail:

In '06, OG's strategem was to have Iguchi hit down in the order, while Juan Uribe, and all of his strikeouts, wild swings, and poor bat control, was somehow going to hit 2nd.

The Mackowiac experiment is well-documented here. [IMO, had Mackowiac been properly used, he'd have been a valuable utility player along the lines of a DeRosa.]

Erstad or Griffey in CF.

And of course, Swisher in CF/leading off.


Don't get me wrong, Ozzie is the best man for this job. But we shouldn't turn a blind eye to some of his shortcomings, either. And [some of] Swisher's shortcomings in '08 can be attributable to being mis-used, IMO.

LITTLE NELL
04-17-2009, 06:38 PM
At times last year he did'nt have a clue at the plate but I think we gave up on him too soon.
I think if he did'nt have that pouting thing at the end of the season he might still be with us.

chisox77
04-17-2009, 06:40 PM
I always liked Dude Swisher, but I also understand why he was traded.

khan
04-17-2009, 06:45 PM
The Swisher deal, IMO, became a mistake when Carlos Quentin turned out to be an MVP candidate, if TCQ didn't pan out then the Sox would be in good shape with Swisher/Whatever/Dye in the OF, but once Carlos claimed LF he make Swisher superfluous.

But this still doesn't justify shipping out 3 out of the top 5 prospects, from my view, anyway. I don't recall the chronology of the two deals, but I remember KW being AMPED UP about acquiring TCQ.

Again, Sweeney isn't a plus defender, nor a slugger, nor a speed demon. But he'd be nice to have while the organization tries to develop a proper CF, be it KW, Jr, Jordan Danks, or that Cuban defector that remains unsigned.


Oh well, this is all water under the bridge, anyway...

Lip Man 1
04-17-2009, 06:45 PM
No.

Nick couldn't play center field, and by the end of the year apparently was very unhappy.

He needed to be moved.

As Bill Melton said a few days ago on the post game, 'remember Nick started off hot for the Sox last year too...'

Lip

guillensdisciple
04-17-2009, 06:50 PM
In general, one thing I dislike doing is looking back at things. What is the point of deciding if something was right or wrong if it already happened? Us agreeing that him traded might have been a bad move won't change anything. Move on with this team, find NEW things that could make this team better. Picking up an old discussion doesn't do anything but bring bad thoughts and ideas to everyone's mind. What's done is done, I wish Swisher the best of luck in New York, and I won't kill the White Sox on moving him. At the time it was not a bad decision.

Carolina Kenny
04-17-2009, 06:50 PM
Swisher was insurance for (4) different commodities. The only mistake in this whole debacle is that we didn't get enough back for him, although a real young pitcher A ball I think, (forgot his name) may have a big upside.

Carolina Kenny
04-17-2009, 06:51 PM
I mean four different positions on the field. Clubs love that type of diversity.

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 07:08 PM
I never said that he would continue the way he is playing throughout the year. Regardless, how was it NOT a mistake? Nick Swisher on his worst day is better than Wise and Anderson.

Brian26
04-17-2009, 08:06 PM
Nick Swisher on his worst day is better than Wise and Anderson.

Typical overreaction for a guy getting flukey hot in the first week of the season. Remember Swisher batted .219 last year and is a career .243 batter.

Thank god you're not GM. If you were, we'd have Swisher in LF, Chris Shelton playing first base and Tuffy Rhodes in CF.

Frater Perdurabo
04-17-2009, 08:08 PM
I think trading for him in the first place was a mistake, but not trading him to NY.

You said what I said before I said it.

I'd rather have Ryan Sweeney right now.

southside rocks
04-17-2009, 08:10 PM
I think trading FOR Swisher was a mistake, and I would rather see Ryan Sweeney in CF than anyone I've seen since. Ryan batted .286 last year and is not a defensive liability.

Getting rid of Swisher was not a mistake, and we'll see how the Yankees like his attitude when Nick runs into a slump -- which he will, all players do.

So no, we don't all agree. :tongue:

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 08:11 PM
Typical overreaction for a guy getting flukey hot in the first week of the season. Remember Swisher batted .219 last year and is a career .243 batter.

Thank god you're not GM. If you were, we'd have Swisher in LF, Chris Shelton playing first base and Tuffy Rhodes in CF.


You obviously didn't read what I said before that. Maybe you can't read. Who knows.

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 08:14 PM
I also rather have Sweeney back too.

Brian26
04-17-2009, 08:15 PM
You obviously didn't read what I said before that. Maybe you can't read. Who knows.

:rolling:

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 08:16 PM
:rolling:

Wow. What a well thought out response. Congratulations.

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm STILL waiting for someone to explain how Anderson and Wise are a better solution than Swisher.

thomas35forever
04-17-2009, 08:36 PM
No. In time, Yankees fans will grow to hate his performance just as much as we did.

soltrain21
04-17-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm STILL waiting for someone to explain how Anderson and Wise are a better solution than Swisher.

Because he hit .219 and isn't a center fielder? Welp, that was easy.

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 08:44 PM
He could have had just had a bad year last year. Offensively he has more upside than Anderson and Wise.

Randar68
04-17-2009, 08:48 PM
I think he has a great chance of a rebounding year this year. He is a hell of alot better option than Anderson or Wise.

No, Swisher is awful in CF and maybe you should take a look again in a month and see how he's doing?

ChiSoxFan81
04-17-2009, 08:55 PM
Too early to tell. I'd lean towards no. This needs to be a poll.

Whitesoxfan23
04-17-2009, 08:57 PM
I know that it's still early. I'm just saying all of his years were better than last year. Odds are he had a bad year last year.

asindc
04-17-2009, 10:15 PM
I know that it's still early. I'm just saying all of his years were better than last year. Odds are he had a bad year last year.

Even if bounces back this year to his career norms, he is--

1) Most certainly not a CF; and

2) Even more certainly not a leadoff hitter.

Since he can't fulfill those roles and the positions he is best suited for are occupied by--

a) 1B- Pauley

b) LF- TCQ

c) RF- Dye; and

d) DH- Thome

it was a good move to get something for him rather than having a player making his kind of money sitting on the bench as a utility player.

balke
04-17-2009, 10:30 PM
The only mistake in this whole debacle is that we didn't get enough back for him, although a real young pitcher A ball I think, (forgot his name) may have a big upside.

I can't believe anyone has the cajones to say this, and yet its been said like 8 times in this thread.

Swisher wasn't valuable last year. Who is going to give you 21 million dollars in salary AND give you prospects for a sub 30 HR, .219 avg. hitter from the previous season? This was a fantastic deal considering the financial situation of the Sox.

BadBobbyJenks
04-17-2009, 10:45 PM
I don't buy the we have no place to play him argument for the table scraps we got back for him.

tick53
04-19-2009, 11:48 AM
No. He didn't click with the Sox. Best to ya, Nick.

102605
04-19-2009, 11:49 AM
The bullpen has been fine!

TomBradley72
04-19-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm glad he's gone. Keeps us away from the tempation at putting a non-CF in CF, his "self promoting" style always rubbed me the wrong way, and he completely lost me with his "pouting" over not playing at the end of last season after hitting <.200 after the All Star break.

The Yankees are the ONLY team that would have taken his salary, I'm happy with what we received in return. KW DID give up too much to the A's for him originally, but a year later, it's basically turned into Swisher for Sweeney, it would be nice to have Sweeney, but I won't lose sleep over losing him.

asindc
04-19-2009, 04:01 PM
I don't buy the we have no place to play him argument for the table scraps we got back for him.

I agree that we did not get back good value for him, but I'm still glad he was traded away. As many have already pointed out, the big mistake was giving up too much to get him in the first place.

By the way, where would you play him if he was still here?

Chrisaway
04-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Hindsight is 20-20 my friend. Getting ANYTHING of value for an overpaid .212 hitter is a good thing in my eyes. I wish Nick the best in NY, and he seems to be doing well so far, but frankly we didn't need him.

Madscout
04-19-2009, 06:17 PM
To further the point of not missing Nick Swisher, he was 2 for 14 against the Tribe this week. Hot and cold my friends, but mostly cold with him.

palehozenychicty
04-20-2009, 01:05 AM
Swisher was a guy whose nature is better than his actual skill set. Nothing wrong with that, but it's reality.

BadBobbyJenks
04-20-2009, 01:28 AM
I agree that we did not get back good value for him, but I'm still glad he was traded away. As many have already pointed out, the big mistake was giving up too much to get him in the first place.

By the way, where would you play him if he was still here?

He would be super utility guy. Can spell Quentin, Dye, Paulie and Anderson

We paid Uribe 4.5 million for Uribe to be a utility player last year.

oeo
04-20-2009, 01:39 AM
He would be super utility guy. Can spell Quentin, Dye, Paulie and Anderson

And then Swisher would be pouting again. "It's all about the team" until Swish isn't happy.

I'm still under the feeling that Swisher requested a trade, anyway. Ozzie's and Swisher's bold personalities didn't mix well.

UofCSoxFan
04-20-2009, 01:56 AM
I think trading FOR Swisher was a mistake, and I would rather see Ryan Sweeney in CF than anyone I've seen since. Ryan batted .286 last year and is not a defensive liability.

Getting rid of Swisher was not a mistake, and we'll see how the Yankees like his attitude when Nick runs into a slump -- which he will, all players do.

So no, we don't all agree. :tongue:

In hindsight one could easily say that with the emergence of Carlos Quentin we didn't need or have room for Swisher, but at the time Quentin was vastly unproven and wouldn't have even made the opening day roster if Jerry Owens hadn't been injured. The fact that TCQ made Swisher superfulous doesn't negate the fact at the time the trade was made, we had a hole to fill in LF.

I agree with the second part of your statement completely.

Frater Perdurabo
04-20-2009, 07:08 AM
He would be super utility guy. Can spell Quentin, Dye, Paulie and Anderson

We paid Uribe 4.5 million for Uribe to be a utility player last year.

If self-imposed budget restrictions did not exist, I would rather have Swisher and Uribe on the bench than Betemit and Owens/Wise.

SoxandtheCityTee
04-20-2009, 09:44 AM
And then Swisher would be pouting again. "It's all about the team" until Swish isn't happy.

I'm still under the feeling that Swisher requested a trade, anyway. Ozzie's and Swisher's bold personalities didn't mix well.

And they continue to not mix in the pages of the press. Ozzie responds to what he must have seen as a shot taken by Swisher:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-20-white-sox-brite-chicago-apr20,0,7250547.story

I don't need to know all the reasons it didn't work to know it didn't work.

Edit: There's already a thread in the Clubhouse on the Swisher-Guillen quotes.

asindc
04-20-2009, 09:56 AM
If self-imposed budget restrictions did not exist, I would rather have Swisher and Uribe on the bench than Betemit and Owens/Wise.

Thank you for pointing this out. Uribe made 4.5 mil as a utility player last year only because he lost his starting position to a rookie. The only reason Uribe is not with the Sox this year is because the Sox don't want to pay a non-starter 4.5 million a year. I don't know of any team that does that, including NYY and Boston.

jabrch
04-20-2009, 11:08 AM
I agree that we did not get back good value for him,

In this financial market, I would say we got the most back possible for a guy who is owed 22mm over the next 3 years.

asindc
04-20-2009, 11:50 AM
In this financial market, I would say we got the most back possible for a guy who is owed 22mm over the next 3 years.

That's why I'm not the least bit disappointed in the move. I was thinking only in competitive terms, not financial. But I agree with you. KW must be relieved that the Yanks are willing to grossly overpay even platoon players.

CashMan
04-20-2009, 12:51 PM
I hate that we dealt the farm to get him, and got comparable crap back in return for him, but he fits nowhere in the organization's present or future, so the Sox had to move on.

I do not think the Sox gave up the farm. Sweeney is Muton, Gio has 1 pitch, and DLS has done nothing. Until, one of those guys does something, they really didn't give up anything.

oeo
04-20-2009, 02:09 PM
I do not think the Sox gave up the farm. Sweeney is Muton, Gio has 1 pitch, and DLS has done nothing. Until, one of those guys does something, they really didn't give up anything.

It doesn't matter what they do. That was our farm at the time and DLS' value was sky high. After dealing those three guys, we had Aaron Poreda left.

BTW, Sweeney would be leading off and in CF for us.

UofCSoxFan
04-20-2009, 03:07 PM
BTW, Sweeney would be leading off and in CF for us.

Would you really want that? I sure wouldn't.

Craig Grebeck
04-20-2009, 03:57 PM
Would you really want that? I sure wouldn't.
As opposed to what we've got now...yes. Of course.

Nellie_Fox
04-20-2009, 03:58 PM
...DLS has done nothing.Wait, what? I thought DLS was already in the HOF!

jabrch
04-20-2009, 04:05 PM
That's why I'm not the least bit disappointed in the move. I was thinking only in competitive terms, not financial. But I agree with you. KW must be relieved that the Yanks are willing to grossly overpay even platoon players.

Agreed - I think KW rushed to take that deal from the Yanks because I don't see anyone who would have given up much at all for him and taken on his whole contract.

Iwritecode
04-20-2009, 04:53 PM
*looks at thread title*

*looks at poll results*

Ouch.

:fail:

oeo
04-20-2009, 05:51 PM
Would you really want that? I sure wouldn't.

Over what we currently have? Yes.

Everyone knows I'm a big fan of Getz. I'd take a Sweeney-Getz top of the order right now, though.