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SOX ADDICT '73
04-15-2009, 10:54 PM
I rather this not get merged with the "MacDougal On Thin Ice" thread, but I will respect the Mods' decision if that is to be

It's plain to see (except to KW and Ozzie, apparently) that Mike MacDougal is absolute garbage. The walks, wild pitches, and HBP are even more infuriating than all the base hits he gives up. If it were any other team, I'd be LMAO.

I'm racking my brain trying to think of the last Sox player to be so obviously unsuited for a major league roster...Jose Paniagua? He had one outing and was gone...Jon Adkins? He was an automatic home run (or three) for the other team, but he had stretches where he was actually serviceable. Jon Rauch? Arnie Munoz? I don't want to limit this to pitchers, but for some reason those are the only players who come to mind.

Any other suggestions for players who kept getting trotted out there despite hurting the team and pissing off the fans?

JB98
04-15-2009, 10:56 PM
Andy Gonzalez.

WhiteSox5187
04-15-2009, 10:59 PM
Andy Gonzalez.

He was up there, how about Mike Caruso? Luis Terrero? Jesus, half of that '07 team.

drewcifer
04-15-2009, 11:01 PM
I don't recall Andy Gonzalez being forced on us because of a bad signing/major league contract. Or making millions.

MacDougal.

Easily the biggest waste of $ in the last 5 years.

voodoochile
04-15-2009, 11:02 PM
Julio Ramirez (?) who went something like 1/50 while leading off and playing CF for most of April under Manuel...

DSpivack
04-15-2009, 11:02 PM
:bkoch::LTP:porzio:ritchie:rwhite::jaime:thechoice

longtimesoxguy
04-15-2009, 11:02 PM
Hands down no doubt about it. RON SANTO

russ99
04-15-2009, 11:12 PM
Hands down no doubt about it. RON SANTO

Kessinger sucked here too, make it a two-pack of ex-Flubs.

However, without a doubt Jaime Navarro gets my vote. How he got that many starts over 3 years (at $5M per) with his overall level of suckitude is beyond me.

And of course there's the epic tale of one Mr. Jose Paniagua and his 108.00 ERA. :D:

doublem23
04-15-2009, 11:12 PM
I'll throw my support for Chris Snopek. Man did he suck.

A. Cavatica
04-15-2009, 11:13 PM
How old was Minnie Minoso for his last appearance?

The funny thing is he probably could draw a walk off MacDougal.

JB98
04-15-2009, 11:13 PM
I don't recall Andy Gonzalez being forced on us because of a bad signing/major league contract. Or making millions.

MacDougal.

Easily the biggest waste of $ in the last 5 years.

I didn't realize that was the criteria. The OP just wanted guys who were inept and Gonzalez was that.

soltrain21
04-15-2009, 11:15 PM
Jamie Navarro by a landslide.

Eddo144
04-15-2009, 11:26 PM
D. Angelo. Jimenez.

drewcifer
04-15-2009, 11:28 PM
I didn't realize that was the criteria. The OP just wanted guys who were inept and Gonzalez was that.

How do you measure ineptitude?

I do by performance vs. salary. The more drastic the difference, the more inept, yes?

We can name minimum wagers (like Andy Gonzalez) all night... who cares....


<Aaron Rowand just hit a 3 run jack after I talked **** about him! :tongue:>

Gotta love this game!

JB98
04-15-2009, 11:31 PM
How do you measure ineptitude?

I do by performance vs. salary. The more drastic the difference, the more inept, yes?

We can name minimum wagers (like Andy Gonzalez) all night... who cares....


<Aaron Rowand just hit a 3 run jack after I talked **** about him! :tongue:>

Gotta love this game!

Ineptitude is guys that suck, period.

MacDougal is one of those guys. So is Andy Gonzalez.

chisoxfanatic
04-15-2009, 11:32 PM
No thread like this would be complete without Ryan Bukvich's name.

drewcifer
04-15-2009, 11:32 PM
Ineptitude is guys that suck, period.

MacDougal is one of those guys. So is Andy Gonzalez.

Ok, good with that. :shrug:

eriqjaffe
04-15-2009, 11:41 PM
Scott Ruffcorn.

nug0hs
04-15-2009, 11:44 PM
I cast my votes for Jerry Owens and Dewon Day.

ode to veeck
04-15-2009, 11:54 PM
How old was Minnie Minoso for his last appearance?

The funny thing is he probably could draw a walk off MacDougal.

Minnie Minoso could still play and get a hit when he last appeared

sunofgold
04-15-2009, 11:56 PM
Aardsma, who now is the closer for Seattle. Go figure. He showed signs of brillance then he sucked.

So did Andrew Sisco

Mike Caruso did have one good year. But, they were promoting him to be great. But, he sure flickered out fast.

Konerko05
04-16-2009, 02:27 AM
D. Angelo. Jimenez.

Jimenez wasn't that bad.

The players with bigger contracts and higher expectations certainly exuded more ineptitude.

Jamie Navarro because of his 15mil contract, 1.692 WHIP, and constant whining.

Todd Ritchie because the White Sox traded my boy Kip Wells for 15 loses and a 1.706 WHIP.

Billy Koch because the Sox traded my favorite pitcher, who was arguably the second best reliever in the AL, for another 1.664 WHIP.

There might have been worse players down the line, but the ineptitude shown by this crew stung the most.

HebrewHammer
04-16-2009, 03:26 AM
C - Mike LaValliere
1B - Greg Walker. He posted 2 consecutive years of sub .700 OPS in 88 and 89. We've been pretty good at 1B for the past 25 years or so.
2B - D'Angelo Jiminez
3B - Andy Gonzalez - He was quite possibly the worst player I have ever seen wear a major league uniform.
SS - Mike Caruso.
LF - Jerry Owens
CF - John Cangelosi. He was part of the '86 debacle.
RF - Tough position. We've been pretty solid in right field as well. I went with Dan Pasqua. I remember him being TERRIBLY overrated. He was a power hitter who couldn't hit for power.
DH - John Kruk.

Rotation.
1. Jaime Navarro
2. Todd Ritchie
3. John Snyder
4. Neil Allen
5. The 7-headed 5th starter monster from '04(Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, Scott Schoeneweiss, Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Josh Stewart and Jon Rauch)

Bullpen
Closer - Billy Koch
Setup - Mike MacDougal, Jose Paniagua
Mid - Ryan Bukvich, Dewon Day
Long - John Davis
SS- Charlie Haeger.

LITTLE NELL
04-16-2009, 04:45 AM
A lot of guys from the 69 and 70 teams. Syd O'Brien, Jerry Janeski, Gail Hopkins to name a few.

SOXfnNlansing
04-16-2009, 06:03 AM
Steve Sax and Dan Pasqua were $$ pariahs who sucked. Rick White and Dan Wright were terrible, but weren't on the team as longs as the first two players. When I was playing ball (locally) in my early 20's my only request was I didn't want number 7 or 44:mad:

bridgeportcopper
04-16-2009, 06:30 AM
C - Mike LaValliere
1B - Greg Walker. He posted 2 consecutive years of sub .700 OPS in 88 and 89. We've been pretty good at 1B for the past 25 years or so.
2B - D'Angelo Jiminez
3B - Andy Gonzalez - He was quite possibly the worst player I have ever seen wear a major league uniform.
SS - Mike Caruso.
LF - Jerry Owens
CF - John Cangelosi. He was part of the '86 debacle.
RF - Tough position. We've been pretty solid in right field as well. I went with Dan Pasqua. I remember him being TERRIBLY overrated. He was a power hitter who couldn't hit for power.
DH - John Kruk.

Rotation.
1. Jaime Navarro
2. Todd Ritchie
3. John Snyder
4. Neil Allen
5. The 7-headed 5th starter monster from '04(Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, Scott Schoeneweiss, Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Josh Stewart and Jon Rauch)

Bullpen
Closer - Billy Koch
Setup - Mike MacDougal, Jose Paniagua
Mid - Ryan Bukvich, Dewon Day
Long - John Davis
SS- Charlie Haeger.

I think Karko would be a more fitting catcher as spanky LaValliere was mostly a backup as I remember, but Karko was an object of fan disgust for his whole career. And speaking of disgust, if I can go back a little further Juan (Disgusto) Agusto just popped into my head from back in the 80's as a much hated reliever.

SoxGirl4Life
04-16-2009, 06:40 AM
The Ryan Bukvich/Dewon Day/Mike MacDougal trio is hard to beat.

Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.

dickallen15
04-16-2009, 07:23 AM
Toby Hall was a horrendous player.

Liu Rodriquez. Brent Lillibridge. Jeff Nelson.

Marqhead
04-16-2009, 07:30 AM
Toby Hall was a horrendous player.

Liu Rodriquez. Brent Lillibridge. Jeff Nelson.

Writing him off early eh?

There have been some bad ones, but the dump known as our fifth starter slot has probably churned out the most painful memories for me.

The Dude
04-16-2009, 07:41 AM
Of recent memory:

Big Mac
Wise
Owens
Cotts
Timo
Ritchie
Embree
Mike Jackson

The Dude
04-16-2009, 07:43 AM
C - Mike LaValliere
1B - Greg Walker. He posted 2 consecutive years of sub .700 OPS in 88 and 89. We've been pretty good at 1B for the past 25 years or so.
2B - D'Angelo Jiminez
3B - Andy Gonzalez - He was quite possibly the worst player I have ever seen wear a major league uniform.
SS - Mike Caruso.
LF - Jerry Owens
CF - John Cangelosi. He was part of the '86 debacle.
RF - Tough position. We've been pretty solid in right field as well. I went with Dan Pasqua. I remember him being TERRIBLY overrated. He was a power hitter who couldn't hit for power.
DH - John Kruk.

Rotation.
1. Jaime Navarro
2. Todd Ritchie
3. John Snyder
4. Neil Allen
5. The 7-headed 5th starter monster from '04(Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, Scott Schoeneweiss, Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Josh Stewart and Jon Rauch)

Bullpen
Closer - Billy Koch
Setup - Mike MacDougal, Jose Paniagua
Mid - Ryan Bukvich, Dewon Day
Long - John Davis
SS- Charlie Haeger.

Can't argue much here! Well done :gulp:

Chez
04-16-2009, 07:44 AM
The first two that popped into my head were Donnie Hill (2B) and Bryan Ward (P).

Viva Medias B's
04-16-2009, 07:54 AM
Dan Pasqua and Claudell Washington

moochpuppy
04-16-2009, 08:04 AM
Daryl Boston
Carlos Martinez
Cory Snyder
Mike Devereaux
Chris Sabo
Will Cordero
Joe Borchard

seventyseven
04-16-2009, 08:15 AM
Ben Davis was atrocious.

Hitmen77
04-16-2009, 08:20 AM
Jamie Navarro by a landslide.

I'm surprised it took until the 6th post before someone even mentioned Navarro.

He gets my vote. Snopek, Paniagua, etc.....none of these guys drove the franchise into the ditch like Navarro did. Not only did he suck on the field but he was a total jackass too (complaining about lack of run support by the offense).

Worse yet, good ol' Scu could have gotten Roger Clemens but went with Jaime Navarro instead. It makes you wonder that if we didn't get Navarro perhaps the entire Sox franchise wouldn't have crashed and burned in the White Flag fiasco in 1997.

asindc
04-16-2009, 08:22 AM
Steve Sax and Dan Pasqua were $$ pariahs who sucked. Rick White and Dan Wright were terrible, but weren't on the team as longs as the first two players. When I was playing ball (locally) in my early 20's my only request was I didn't want number 7 or 44:mad:

+1

If Billy Koch had not been mentioned, I would have wondered what we have been collectively watching. I personally blame him for not making the playoffs in 2003.

HebrewHammer
04-16-2009, 08:23 AM
Steve Sax and Dan Pasqua were $$ pariahs who sucked. Rick White and Dan Wright were terrible, but weren't on the team as longs as the first two players. When I was playing ball (locally) in my early 20's my only request was I didn't want number 7 or 44:mad:

I completely forgot about Steve Sax. Swap him with D'Angelo on my roster! I remember being really excited when we dealt for him and then I saw him play. We dealt Domingo Jean, Melido Perez and Wickman for that expensive turd.

Yeah, I just remember Spanky being an automatic 0-4 whenever I saw him in the lineup. Swap him with Ben Davis and my inept roster is set.

asindc
04-16-2009, 08:23 AM
Of recent memory:

Big Mac
Wise
Owens
Cotts
Timo
Ritchie
Embree
Mike Jackson

Well, Cotts did pitch very well during one particular year. I think we can cut him some slack for that, don't you?

esbrechtel
04-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Ben Davis was atrocious.

I second the Ben Davis mention...I had a friend that nicknamed him Triple A...

eriqjaffe
04-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Cory Snyder

TommyJohn
04-16-2009, 08:57 AM
I vote for Smead Jolley. The guy couldn't field worth a damn.

Hey, the title says all time, right? Not just since 1990.

Redus Redux
04-16-2009, 09:03 AM
message boards seem to hate Timo way more than the average fan for some reason.

oldcomiskey
04-16-2009, 09:12 AM
Kessinger sucked here too, make it a two-pack of ex-Flubs.

However, without a doubt Jaime Navarro gets my vote. How he got that many starts over 3 years (at $5M per) with his overall level of suckitude is beyond me.

And of course there's the epic tale of one Mr. Jose Paniagua and his 108.00 ERA. :D:

you talk about a duo, what about a hattrick--Navarro was a former Cub as well

oldcomiskey
04-16-2009, 09:14 AM
Can't argue much here! Well done :gulp:

I disagree with Walker being on the list--what about the first few years in a sox uniform---Id put Carmelo Martinez at first or John Kruk

oldcomiskey
04-16-2009, 09:15 AM
I completely forgot about Steve Sax. Swap him with D'Angelo on my roster! I remember being really excited when we dealt for him and then I saw him play. We dealt Domingo Jean, Melido Perez and Wickman for that expensive turd.

Yeah, I just remember Spanky being an automatic 0-4 whenever I saw him in the lineup. Swap him with Ben Davis and my inept roster is set.

you mean after Lamont ruined him

oldcomiskey
04-16-2009, 09:16 AM
yall watch it when you talk bad about Borchard--thats the great LTP youre talking about
Then there was Paul assenmacher and Luis Alverado, a ss who was scared of the ball. Not to mention BeeBee Richard and John "the Jet" Jeter

Eddo144
04-16-2009, 09:28 AM
Of recent memory:

Big Mac
Wise
Owens
Cotts
Timo
Ritchie
Embree
Mike Jackson
Seriously? Cotts was probably the best relief pitcher in baseball in 2005. He was sick, and the bullpen was a huge part of getting the Sox to the World Series (and winning it once they were there).

HebrewHammer
04-16-2009, 09:31 AM
I vote for Smead Jolley. The guy couldn't field worth a damn.

Hey, the title says all time, right? Not just since 1990.

I tried to stick with guys that I've actually seen play. I don't think its fair to vilify a guy without seeing him in action.

I disagree with Walker being on the list--what about the first few years in a sox uniform---Id put Carmelo Martinez at first or John Kruk

Greg Walker had, what, 2 or 3 competent seasons? He simply wasn't that good of a baseball player. I only saw him play near the end of his career, you know what most guys call their PRIME years, and he was dreadful. A sub-.700 OPS from a first baseman know for his bat? No thanks.

Railsplitter
04-16-2009, 09:38 AM
I vote for Smead Jolley. The guy couldn't field worth a damn.

Hey, the title says all time, right? Not just since 1990.

Indeed.
Stories of Zeke Bunora, who stood in the general vicinty of first base for the Sox in the 1930's, state he would rarely go after grounders. Rather, he'd wave to ball with what wisacres in the press called "The Bunora/Mussolini salute" as it hopped toward right field.

lukeman89
04-16-2009, 09:44 AM
liu rodriguez

ChiSoxFan81
04-16-2009, 09:45 AM
Sean Tracey.

thedudeabides
04-16-2009, 09:58 AM
Well, Cotts did pitch very well during one particular year. I think we can cut him some slack for that, don't you?

I would gladly replace Marte for Cotts. There was nothing more frustrating than seeing Marte come in for one lefty and walk him, seemingly all the time.

I take that back Koch was more frustrating. I can't believe how nauseating it was to see him come out of the bullpen. :angry:

esbrechtel
04-16-2009, 10:07 AM
How many times did Marte walk in runs?

ChiSoxFan81
04-16-2009, 10:12 AM
How many times did Marte walk in runs?

That was a fun 4th of July.

EMachine10
04-16-2009, 10:14 AM
Aardsma, who now is the closer for Seattle. Go figure. He showed signs of brillance then he sucked.

So did Andrew Sisco

Mike Caruso did have one good year. But, they were promoting him to be great. But, he sure flickered out fast.
Brendan Morrow is the closer for Seattle. Aaaaaardsma got into the game in the 9th because Morrow warmed up or played in 4 or 5 straight games before that.

Jim Shorts
04-16-2009, 10:31 AM
Greg Walker had, what, 2 or 3 competent seasons? He simply wasn't that good of a baseball player. I only saw him play near the end of his career, you know what most guys call their PRIME years, and he was dreadful. A sub-.700 OPS from a first baseman know for his bat? No thanks.

But he had a purty swing.

mccoydp
04-16-2009, 10:32 AM
That was a fun 4th of July.

My God that sucked. I wanted to choke him.

tick53
04-16-2009, 10:40 AM
C - Mike LaValliere
1B - Greg Walker. He posted 2 consecutive years of sub .700 OPS in 88 and 89. We've been pretty good at 1B for the past 25 years or so.
2B - D'Angelo Jiminez
3B - Andy Gonzalez - He was quite possibly the worst player I have ever seen wear a major league uniform.
SS - Mike Caruso.
LF - Jerry Owens
CF - John Cangelosi. He was part of the '86 debacle.
RF - Tough position. We've been pretty solid in right field as well. I went with Dan Pasqua. I remember him being TERRIBLY overrated. He was a power hitter who couldn't hit for power.
DH - John Kruk.

Rotation.
1. Jaime Navarro
2. Todd Ritchie
3. John Snyder
4. Neil Allen
5. The 7-headed 5th starter monster from '04(Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, Scott Schoeneweiss, Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Josh Stewart and Jon Rauch)

Bullpen
Closer - Billy Koch
Setup - Mike MacDougal, Jose Paniagua
Mid - Ryan Bukvich, Dewon Day
Long - John Davis
SS- Charlie Haeger.

This pretty much sums it up but I'm going to put Chris Sabo on the list.

Dick Allen
04-16-2009, 11:01 AM
My vote goes to Andy Gonzalez. I can't remember a player who sucked so badly both offensively and defensively. And yet Ozzie continued to insist on playing him nearly every day for a long stretch there.

guillen4life13
04-16-2009, 11:03 AM
Those of you who mentioned Cotts or Marte need your memories checked. Marte never put up an ERA over 4 (highest is 3.77) in a Sox uniform. He was the LH setup man before Thornton and IMHO he was one of the best. Every reliever is going to have a bad outing here and there.

Cotts had a bad 2006 but was lights out in 05.

Britt Burns
04-16-2009, 11:08 AM
Jaime Navarro. No Sox player has sucked longer, harder, more petulantly, and with overall long-term ill-effect than him.

Dibbs
04-16-2009, 11:21 AM
Jaime Navarro always comes to mind when I think of complete failure.

Lip Man 1
04-16-2009, 11:42 AM
Hebrew:

Walker had five double figure seasons in home runs and three seasons of at least 75 RBI's. Two of those with 90+.

To say he belongs on that list is flat crazy.

Lip

eriqjaffe
04-16-2009, 11:49 AM
Cotts had a bad 2003, 2004, and 2006 but was lights out in 05.Fixed that for you. 2005 is very clearly the outlier in his career. Only one other time has he put up an ERA+ of over 100, and then it was only by a little bit. Take out 2005 and his career ERA baloons up nearly an entire run to 5.36.

asindc
04-16-2009, 11:58 AM
Fixed that for you. 2005 is very clearly the outlier in his career. Only one other time has he put up an ERA+ of over 100, and then it was only by a little bit. Take out 2005 and his career ERA baloons up nearly an entire run to 5.36.

Which still does not qualify him to be mentioned in this thread.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-16-2009, 11:59 AM
Marte never put up an ERA over 4 (highest is 3.77) in a Sox uniform.
I didn't include Damaso Marte in my original post (in my mind, everyone on the 2005 team gets a free pass), but he was the absolute KING of letting inherited runners score. His personal ERA? Not so bad. But that doesn't factor in situations where he came in with runners on 1st and 2nd and two outs, walked (or plunked) a left-handed hitter to load the bases, gave up a two-run single, and then got the next guy to pop up for the third out. Marte's ERA for that craptacular outing? A sparkling 0.00!

A few years back, I heard of a system in which a runner inherited at 3rd base who later scored would count as .75 runs toward the original pitcher's ERA, .25 runs to the reliever; 2nd base would be .50/.50; 1st base .25/.75. Not that this would ever be implemented (baseball's stats are psychotic enough as it is), but I'd like to view Marte's "best" seasons with the Sox using this format.

LoveYourSuit
04-16-2009, 12:08 PM
Michael Jackson is the only player in Sox history who would make me turn off my TV.

Paniagua might have had the shortest most disasterous cup of cofee in Sox history.

Eddo144
04-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Hebrew:

Walker had five double figure seasons in home runs and three seasons of at least 75 RBI's. Two of those with 90+.

To say he belongs on that list is flat crazy.

Lip
Wow, five whole double figure home run seasons? For a first baseman?

Seriously, that's nothing to hang your hat on; first basemen should be hitting at least ten home runs every single year.

Not saying Walker is necessarily the worst Sox first baseman of all time, but five double digit home run seasons is nothing.

TommyJohn
04-16-2009, 12:12 PM
I tried to stick with guys that I've actually seen play. I don't think its fair to vilify a guy without seeing him in action.





Fair enough. In that case, I'd go with dudes like Ron Blomberg, Jaime Navarro, Kevin Bell, Ron Reed, Juan "Disgusto" Agosto. The late 70s and late 80s were fertile grounds for ineptness at Comiskey.

The one who takes the cake is Mike Stanton, who came and went in 1985 but left his mark. Good grief. I have reviewed his suckitude in previous threads, so will not do that here. But anyone who saw him will agree with me on one thing- he was BAAAAAADDDDD!!

ChiSoxFan81
04-16-2009, 12:13 PM
Wow, five whole double figure home run seasons? For a first baseman?

Seriously, that's nothing to hang your hat on; first basemen should be hitting at least ten home runs every single year.

Not saying Walker is necessarily the worst Sox first baseman of all time, but five double digit home run seasons is nothing.

Yeah, but I think the point of the thread is guys who were inept, not mediocre or below average. I mean, we're talking can't contribute anything to the team here, not just a guy had a couple bad years or was playing at a AAAA level.

Carolina Kenny
04-16-2009, 12:18 PM
Gail Hopkins never did much for me.

Would Bobby Molinero be our starting CF this year if he was still around?

Risk
04-16-2009, 12:19 PM
I can't imagine how Jose Segura has not made this list.

BTW Hebrew Hammer--great list.

When I think of the only Sox player I would ever boo without pause for his sheer ineptitude and even worse attitude, it's Jaime Navarro.

And to those who have said that Andy Gonzalez was the worst baseball player they've seen wear a Sox uniform, please, let me in your club.

Risk

Lip Man 1
04-16-2009, 12:24 PM
Eddo:

Considering the first few years of his career he was a part time role player and considering he never played as long as he should have, given the bizarre seizure he had on the field at Comiskey Park, which cut short his career, yea I'd say that's something. That seizure limited his time that one season and he was never the same afterwards even when he did play (which wasn't much...)

Given those outside factors in fact, I'd say those home run / RBI totals are pretty damn impressive.

I assumed you knew these things...obviously I was wrong...as I've told you before, numbers can only tell you so much.

Lip

michned
04-16-2009, 12:27 PM
My vote goes to Bee Bee Richard. Lifetime .259 OBP, and 26 errors in 68 games in 1971.

Zisk77
04-16-2009, 12:29 PM
I know many don't like Greg Walker as a hitting coach but he was a decent player. Far from inept.

I also disagree with those citing Officer Karkovice. He was a great defensive catcher who struck out a lot. but he did hit around 20 hr's and he could steal a base.

Jim Shorts
04-16-2009, 12:29 PM
Wow, five whole double figure home run seasons? For a first baseman?

Seriously, that's nothing to hang your hat on; first basemen should be hitting at least ten home runs every single year.

Not saying Walker is necessarily the worst Sox first baseman of all time, but five double digit home run seasons is nothing.

It's a list of ineptitude. Walk's stats are well above ineptitude.

You may not have liked him as a player, probably due to his current position...but he does not belong on any ineptitude list.

eriqjaffe
04-16-2009, 12:34 PM
Which still does not qualify him to be mentioned in this thread.True. 2005 aside, Cotts was merely well below average.

guillen4life13
04-16-2009, 12:38 PM
Fixed that for you. 2005 is very clearly the outlier in his career. Only one other time has he put up an ERA+ of over 100, and then it was only by a little bit. Take out 2005 and his career ERA baloons up nearly an entire run to 5.36.

No offense but the whole "fixed it for you" thing is kind of *******-ish.

That said, what you say is true. However, in a club whose history spans over 100 years, to say that Cotts--without whom arguably the Sox don't even make it to the playoffs in 2005--is one of the most inept players the team has ever had... well, that's really preposterous.

Johnny Mostil
04-16-2009, 12:40 PM
Who would manage these players?

areilly
04-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Toss-up between Koch and Navarro, although I think Jaime gets the edge for stretching his pattern of lameness out over three whole years.



This has to be one of the most depressing threads of all time.

kba
04-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Hank Allen. The Sox signed him as a favor to his brother Dick in 1972.

Hank hit .117 over the two seasons he was with the team, with 11 strike-outs and one walk. Also posted a .905 fielding percentage at third base.

Noneck
04-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Who would manage these players?
Don Kessinger as of course player-manager.

areilly
04-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Who would manage these players?

I think Bevington takes this one unanimously.

ChiSoxFan81
04-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Who would manage these players?

Who would announce the game?

Noneck
04-16-2009, 12:45 PM
Who would announce the game?

Early Wynn

kba
04-16-2009, 12:47 PM
Who would announce the game?

Chris Singleton and Early Wynn on WTAQ radio.
J.C. Martin and Lou Brock with the play-by-play on SportsVision.

Marqhead
04-16-2009, 12:48 PM
Who would manage these players?

Hawk could be the GM.

Noneck
04-16-2009, 12:49 PM
Chris Singleton and Early Wynn on WTAQ radio.
J.C. Martin and Lou Brock with the play-by-play on SportsVision.

Very Good, I forgot about Lou Brock.

doublem23
04-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Hawk could be the GM.

Not enough good players on that team for him to trade away.

TheVulture
04-16-2009, 01:05 PM
I think Karko would be a more fitting catcher as spanky LaValliere was mostly a backup as I remember, but Karko was an object of fan disgust for his whole career.

You're nuts, Karko was the man behind the plate.

voodoochile
04-16-2009, 01:22 PM
You're nuts, Karko was the man behind the plate.

Yeah, if anything he caught grief for not being Fisk and because he happened to be the guy who took over for Fisk when Fisk got cut in Cleveland. He was never great with the stick, but his defense was excellent.

PaleHoser
04-16-2009, 01:44 PM
Not that I was ever a big fan of Ron Karkovice, but he may be the best right-handed drag bunter the Sox have had in the 35+ years I've been a fan.

I'd nominate the catchers from the 1980 squad - Marv Foley, Glenn Borgmann, Bruce Kimm, or Rickey Seilheimer for this team. About the best thing that can be said about them is that they offered an alternative to Wayne Nordhagen. Pick one, as all are far more deserving for this team than Karkovice or Mike LaValliere.

I'd like to thank them for being so bad that the White Sox signed Carlton Fisk, Marc Hill, and Jim Essian (doing my penguin clap now Cub fans!) in the same off-season.

FielderJones
04-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Jerry Dybzinski. We'd have won a World Series 22 years earlier.

Risk
04-16-2009, 01:51 PM
Jerry Dybzinski. We'd have won a World Series 22 years earlier.

I still can't mention that name around my father due to the searing, unbridled rage he has b/c of 1983.

Risk

ode to veeck
04-16-2009, 02:15 PM
Jerry Dybzinski. We'd have won a World Series 22 years earlier.

Jerry's the Bartman scapegoat of Sox fandom, the Sox sucked at the plate whole series againt the O's in the '83 playoffs.

RadioheadRocks
04-16-2009, 02:19 PM
The one who takes the cake is Mike Stanton, who came and went in 1985 but left his mark. Good grief. I have reviewed his suckitude in previous threads, so will not do that here. But anyone who saw him will agree with me on one thing- he was BAAAAAADDDDD!!

I second that emotion.

Warriorjan
04-16-2009, 02:24 PM
Bee-Bee Richard ( we even had a song for him - it's Bee-Bee bobble time......), Jose Paniaguia(sp?) - managed of course by Terry Bevington (remember when he brought in Keith Foulke without bothering to have him warm up first? that alone qualifies him for the "honor")

ode to veeck
04-16-2009, 02:29 PM
Who would manage these players?

there's an easy answer to that question: Terry Bevington would be the manager and Hawk would be the GM.

asindc
04-16-2009, 02:29 PM
I think Bevington takes this one unanimously.

No doubt Bev has to manage this "team." Who else?

Johnny Mostil
04-16-2009, 02:31 PM
Jerry's the Bartman scapegoat of Sox fandom, the Sox sucked at the plate whole series againt the O's in the '83 playoffs.

You mean 3 runs in 37 innings doesn't win many games?

ode to veeck
04-16-2009, 02:31 PM
Fixed that for you. 2005 is very clearly the outlier in his career. Only one other time has he put up an ERA+ of over 100, and then it was only by a little bit. Take out 2005 and his career ERA baloons up nearly an entire run to 5.36.

yeah and without him there's no WS trophy on the south side, not on the list

Johnny Mostil
04-16-2009, 02:34 PM
there's an easy answer to that question: Terry Bevington would be the manager and Hawk would be the GM.

Yeah, Bevington first came to my mind, though the suggestion of Kessinger as player-manager made me reconsider briefly.

Chris Singleton and Early Wynn on WTAQ radio.
J.C. Martin and Lou Brock with the play-by-play on SportsVision.

This cracked me up . . .

ChiSoxFan81
04-16-2009, 02:37 PM
I can't think of a more deserving thread....

:tomatoaward

Jim Shorts
04-16-2009, 02:40 PM
Jerry Dybzinski. We'd have won a World Series 22 years earlier.

Did Dybzinski bat in all nine spots in the order? I was only 13 so I may have mis-remembered

ode to veeck
04-16-2009, 02:50 PM
Julio Ramirez (?) who went something like 1/50 while leading off and playing CF for most of April under Manuel...

ding ding ding we have a winner, one day in oakland he and Royce were posted with barely .100 BA on the AB and on deck part of the scoreboard

Moses_Scurry
04-16-2009, 02:52 PM
Back in the late '80's and early '90's, the Sox acquired not one, but 2 starting pitchers who were a season or two removed from leading their leagues in losses ....

Jose De Leon and Kirk McKaskill (sp?). Surprisingly, they were both pretty bad.

The painful thing was that they traded pre-prime Bobby Bonilla for De Leon!

gobears1987
04-16-2009, 02:53 PM
This begins and ends with Navarro. Not only a horrible player, but a horrible teammate. He blames his offense when he gives up a **** ton of runs.

Players like Billy Koch were horrible in terms of performance, but Koch at least would own up and take the blame when he screwed up. He never hid and blamed others for his failures on the mound. For that, I have to give him a lot of respect.

ode to veeck
04-16-2009, 02:54 PM
no way greg walker is on the list, as he was a decent hitter in his youth an an integral part of '83 team which had the best regular season record in baseball


cmon folks we're trying to post the worst Sox players of all time here

AZChiSoxFan
04-16-2009, 03:05 PM
How do you measure ineptitude?

I do by performance vs. salary. The more drastic the difference, the more inept, yes?

We can name minimum wagers (like Andy Gonzalez) all night... who cares....


<Aaron Rowand just hit a 3 run jack after I talked **** about him! :tongue:>

Gotta love this game!

I agree with your line of reasoning, so I'm going with Borchard.

kba
04-16-2009, 03:28 PM
Back in the late '80's and early '90's, the Sox acquired not one, but 2 starting pitchers who were a season or two removed from leading their leagues in losses ....

Jose De Leon and Kirk McKaskill (sp?). Surprisingly, they were both pretty bad.

The painful thing was that they traded pre-prime Bobby Bonilla for De Leon!

McKaskill went 12-13 in 1992 and pitched three scoreless innings in the '93 playoffs, so I don't think he qualifies as inept.

voodoochile
04-16-2009, 03:42 PM
ding ding ding we have a winner, one day in oakland he and Royce were posted with barely .100 BA on the AB and on deck part of the scoreboard

I was at the game in late May when Clayton got a hit late in the game to push his average over .100 and the crowd started chanting "MVP! MVP!" His teammates rushed to his defense publicly chiding the crowd for being cruel, but come on, it was 200 PA into the season - at least we weren't booing...:tongue:

TDog
04-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Julio Ramirez (?) who went something like 1/50 while leading off and playing CF for most of April under Manuel...

And Ramirez homered for the Angels against the White Sox in 2002 as well, just as Art Kusnyer homered for the Angels against the White Sox in 1971, a year after he got just one hit in his rookie September catching for the Sox.

But honestly, I don't remember Ramirez ever hitting lead off. I remember him hitting ninth and second. Clayton's hitting was so bad that April that Ramirez might have batted eighth.

I felt sorry for Ramirez, though, because I saw him hit into some very tough luck. I saw Torii Hunter make the most incredible catch I have ever witnessed in person on a Julio Ramirez line drive that looked like a triple off the bat. Of course, Ramirez struck out a lot too.

As for pitchers, Mike MacDougal doesn't even crack the top 25 most inept in White Sox history. On the 1970 Sox, MacDougal would be considered a go-to guy, behind Wilbur Wood. I know if it were between MacDougal and Floyd Weaver (whose only major league win came in Boston with the White Sox prevailing 22-13, and they had to give the win to someone) for a roster spot, Weaver wouldn't have made the team.

UChicagoHP
04-16-2009, 04:59 PM
My memory only goes back one year, but Nick Swisher towards the end of the 2008 was about the worst excuse for a ball-player I have ever seen. No confidence, no bat-speed, just pure BAD.

Warriorjan
04-16-2009, 05:03 PM
On the 1970 Sox, I would have been considered a go-to guy. I forgot about Don Gutteridge, who seemed nice but inept - of course he literally had nothing to work with - but I would still make Bevington the manager of the all-inept team. He was truly a buffoon, which Gutteridge wasn't. What a god-awful team that was!

TDog
04-16-2009, 05:21 PM
On the 1970 Sox, I would have been considered a go-to guy. I forgot about Don Gutteridge, who seemed nice but inept - of course he literally had nothing to work with - but I would still make Bevington the manager of the all-inept team. He was truly a buffoon, which Gutteridge wasn't. What a god-awful team that was!

That was my point. And it isn't limited to pitching. If memory serves, Johnny "Pineapple" Matias was the leadoff man on opening day -- when the Sox lost 12-0.

Dick Allen
04-16-2009, 05:26 PM
That was my point. And it isn't limited to pitching. If memory serves, Johnny "Pineapple" Matias was the leadoff man on opening day -- when the Sox lost 12-0.Matias was a slow 1B, he did not lead off. I believe Little Looie led off.

HebrewHammer
04-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Hebrew:

Walker had five double figure seasons in home runs and three seasons of at least 75 RBI's. Two of those with 90+.

To say he belongs on that list is flat crazy.

Lip

I remember him best from his 88 and 89 seasons. He was terrible. He posted an OPS under .700 while playing a power position in both seasons. I also don't think he's as good as some around here claim he was. He had what? 2 seasons you could describe as "competent?" He's the Aaron Rowand of the '83 team. Overrated to the point someone made him the hitting coach. He made the list because he was the most inept first baseman I remember seeing that received regular playing time. If you can do better, have at it.

MisterB
04-16-2009, 06:17 PM
Matias was a slow 1B, he did not lead off. I believe Little Looie led off.

No-neck Williams led off the opener with Looie batting 2nd; Matias batted 5th.

But he did bat lead off 4 times that season (while playing RF).

Brian26
04-16-2009, 06:22 PM
This discussion begins and ends with Juan Agosto. MacDougal is a poor man's Juan Agosto.

Brian26
04-16-2009, 06:28 PM
Paniagua might have had the shortest most disasterous cup of cofee in Sox history.

Ken Hill should be on that list. I remember one disastrous outing (maybe in Anaheim) in 2000 before he was gone.

WhiteSox5187
04-16-2009, 06:33 PM
This begins and ends with Navarro. Not only a horrible player, but a horrible teammate. He blames his offense when he gives up a **** ton of runs.

Players like Billy Koch were horrible in terms of performance, but Koch at least would own up and take the blame when he screwed up. He never hid and blamed others for his failures on the mound. For that, I have to give him a lot of respect.
I was always a bit of a fan of Koch if only for his attitude, he never did make excuses. One of my favorite all time quotes might be from him the day he got released. When someone asked him why he thought he got released he said "Cuz I sucked."

TomBradley72
04-16-2009, 06:51 PM
My All 70's Ineptitude Team:

1B-Jim Breazale
2B- Joe Gates
SS- Rich Morales
3B- Hank Allen
LF- Alan Bannister
CF- Nyls Nyman
RF- Royle Stillman
C- Chuck Brinkman

JB98
04-16-2009, 06:53 PM
Russ Morman sucked.

eastchicagosoxfan
04-16-2009, 06:53 PM
Daryl Boston
Carlos Martinez
Cory Snyder
Mike Devereaux
Chris Sabo
Will Cordero
Joe Borchard

That's a good list. Tons of talent, but not one of them were worth a bag of balls. Daryl is my personal favorite underachiever. He was billed as a five tool player. He didn't even run the bases well.

MisterB
04-16-2009, 06:54 PM
I remember him best from his 88 and 89 seasons. He was terrible. He posted an OPS under .700 while playing a power position in both seasons. I also don't think he's as good as some around here claim he was. He had what? 2 seasons you could describe as "competent?" He's the Aaron Rowand of the '83 team. Overrated to the point someone made him the hitting coach. He made the list because he was the most inept first baseman I remember seeing that received regular playing time. If you can do better, have at it.

And he posted an .800+ OPS in 3 of the 4 seasons before that. His lifetime stats with the Sox are quite similar to Joe Crede's while playing in an offensively weaker era. He was never great, but overall he was nowhere near inept.

If you want worse, how about Walker's erstwhile replacements until the Big Hurt came along? Kelly Paris, Russ Morman, Billy Joe Robidoux, Carlos Martinez, Sap Randall...:o:

chisox77
04-16-2009, 08:27 PM
This is a very depressing thread, though it may be very relevant in discussing players who, throughout the years, were a disappointment for our White Sox.

There was one player I rooted for very hard, though he was considered inept: Jim Essian.

There was another player that was considered limited, but had an appealing uppercut homerun swing and a gritty style of play that Sox fans loved him for: Jim Morrison - also a favorite of mine.

Then there was Eric Soderholm, who had all-star potential when he played for the Twins, but an offseason knee injury nearly (and probably should have) ended his career, but he worked hard to squeeze out a few decent seasons, even when he could not run much anymore. But there were few players who could hit a baseball harder than he did. Jimmy Piersall (seemingly) considered him inept, yet to me, and many other Sox fans, Soderholm was a lovable, productive, and inspiring player.

At this point in the thread, just about every disappointment has been named, so I figured this would be an okay post.

elrod
04-16-2009, 09:39 PM
I'll throw my support for Chris Snopek. Man did he suck.

Yes, Snopek is my pick too. Hard to follow up on Robin Ventura. But still. He was bad all around.

FielderJones
04-16-2009, 09:41 PM
This discussion begins and ends with Juan Agosto. MacDougal is a poor man's Juan Agosto.

Agosto and Barojas were the kings of inherited runners scored long before Marte. That stat wasn't tracked very closely back then, and their low ERAs made them look a lot better than they actually were.

DSpivack
04-16-2009, 09:52 PM
Ken Hill should be on that list. I remember one disastrous outing (maybe in Anaheim) in 2000 before he was gone.

Ken Hill sucked, came and went, and the Sox were fine in cruising to a division title.

Paniagua was an unmitigated disaster that served as a catalyst to blowing a division race.

WhiteSoxJunkie
04-16-2009, 10:51 PM
David Wells
Todd Ritchie
Ben Davis
Andy Gonzalez

fram40
04-16-2009, 11:22 PM
wow is this a depressing thread

My vote goes to Harry Chappas altho it looks like there are about 20 guys in the running from 1978

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1978.shtml

TDog
04-16-2009, 11:43 PM
No-neck Williams led off the opener with Looie batting 2nd; Matias batted 5th.

But he did bat lead off 4 times that season (while playing RF).

I do remember Matias leading off and playing right field a few times, before mid-July when Gutteridge moved Melton to right, where Melton stayed until Chuck Tanner took over. The White Sox couldn't have done worse on opening day had they moved Matias up in the order.

Of course, if Matias had been a much better hitter, he might have had a career average of .200, and the Mendoza line might be known as the Matias line. Batting a slow sub-.200 hitter leadoff would be so 1970 White Sox.

And yet, I'm sure someone could find a position player more inept than Johnny Matias.

oldcomiskey
04-17-2009, 09:43 AM
I tried to stick with guys that I've actually seen play. I don't think its fair to vilify a guy without seeing him in action.



Greg Walker had, what, 2 or 3 competent seasons? He simply wasn't that good of a baseball player. I only saw him play near the end of his career, you know what most guys call their PRIME years, and he was dreadful. A sub-.700 OPS from a first baseman know for his bat? No thanks.

Jose Contreris is the same way--Albert Belle is the same way--and Walker was a good player until health problems, so you cant judge him on iy--Christ, the man almost died on the field

oldcomiskey
04-17-2009, 09:45 AM
That's a good list. Tons of talent, but not one of them were worth a bag of balls. Daryl is my personal favorite underachiever. He was billed as a five tool player. He didn't even run the bases well.

yeah but I remember a catch he made at the old ballpark---dove into the seats

oldcomiskey
04-17-2009, 09:48 AM
Wow, five whole double figure home run seasons? For a first baseman?

Seriously, that's nothing to hang your hat on; first basemen should be hitting at least ten home runs every single year.

Not saying Walker is necessarily the worst Sox first baseman of all time, but five double digit home run seasons is nothing.

what games were you watching in the 80's? Certainly not the Sox games--Walker was a teriffic hitter

Jenks4Prez
04-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Watching Billy Koch made me physically ill. True story.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-17-2009, 10:45 AM
The Ryan Bukvich/Dewon Day/Mike MacDougal trio is hard to beat.

Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
In 2007, I turned the word "Bukvich" into a verb, as in: "The Sox just got Bukviched!" after Ryan would give up another home run. I'd love to delete that entire season (save Buehrle's no-no, Bobby's consecutive batters retired, and Thome's 500th) from my memory.

Damn, this IS a depressing thread...sorry guys! :(:

Risk
04-17-2009, 11:04 AM
In 2007, I turned the word "Bukvich" into a verb, as in: "The Sox just got Bukviched!" after Ryan would give up another home run. I'd love to delete that entire season (save Buehrle's no-no, Bobby's consecutive batters retired, and Thome's 500th) from my memory.

Damn, this IS a depressing thread...sorry guys! :(:

07' was the most depressing year for me as a Sox fan since 89' (even though, admittedly, I think lots of fans thought that team would suck b/c of lack of talent). What killed me about 07' was all the blown leads in the late innings. That bullpen was a bunch of suck (Day, Sisco, Buckvich and AAAAAAArdsma) coupled with a good pitcher like Thornton having a bad year gave me my first gray hairs. Thinking about it right now is getting me down.

Risk

SOXSINCE'70
04-17-2009, 11:12 AM
Watching Billy Koch made me physically ill.
Watching "Belly Crotch" (as I called him) pitch did not make me vomit.
However,those close to me did notice smoke coming from my ears (a la Fred Flintstone) whenever he appeared in a game.

Here is the "Belly Crotch" appearance that ruined my 4th of July weekend 6 years ago;
I remember it as if it were yesterday:

The Sox were at Tropicana Field playing the (then) Tampa Bay Devil Rays.Bartolo Colon had pitched well enough to hold a 3-1 lead into the bottom of the 9th inning.I am watching the TV,hopeful for that elusive "White Sox winner".With 2 on and 2 outs,my brother in law (who roots for the team North of Comiskey Park) walks by me and says out loud "here it is;3 run homer ends it". Carl Crrrrrrawford ends the game with a 3 run shot that just barely cleared the right field wall. :angry:

I can still hear my brother in law's laughter.

There was only one positive: the OTHER TEAM lost to the Cardinals, 7-4.

The more things change,the more they remain the same.

PaleHoser
04-18-2009, 07:35 AM
I don't think I've seen Julio Cruz on this list. Once he got his fat contract, he was awful. I think he's the only MLB player I've ever seen get hit by a batted ball leading off third base in fair territory.

LITTLE NELL
04-18-2009, 07:41 AM
yeah but I remember a catch he made at the old ballpark---dove into the seats
One of the greatest catches ever as he jumped up on the low boxes wall down the left field line caught the ball and fell into the 2nd row.

Bucky F. Dent
04-18-2009, 07:51 AM
Alan Bannister and everyones favorite, Claudell Washington

TomBradley72
04-18-2009, 10:06 AM
My All 80's Ineptitude Team:

1B-Joe Desa
2B- Jack Perconte
SS- Todd Cruz
3B- Lorenzo Gray
LF- Mark Ryal
CF- Kenny Williams
RF- Dave Stegman
C- Marv Foley

eastchicagosoxfan
04-18-2009, 10:13 AM
My All 80's Ineptitude Team:

1B-Joe Desa
2B- Jack Perconte
SS- Todd Cruz
3B- Lorenzo Gray
LF- Mark Ryal
CF- Kenny Williams
RF- Dave Stegman
C- Marv Foley

Who pitches?

oldcomiskey
04-18-2009, 10:28 AM
let us not forget the greats Marc Hill, Joel Skinner and Wayne Tolleson

Gavin
04-18-2009, 11:00 AM
C - Mike LaValliere
1B - Greg Walker. He posted 2 consecutive years of sub .700 OPS in 88 and 89. We've been pretty good at 1B for the past 25 years or so.
2B - D'Angelo Jiminez
3B - Andy Gonzalez - He was quite possibly the worst player I have ever seen wear a major league uniform.
SS - Mike Caruso.
LF - Jerry Owens
CF - John Cangelosi. He was part of the '86 debacle.
RF - Tough position. We've been pretty solid in right field as well. I went with Dan Pasqua. I remember him being TERRIBLY overrated. He was a power hitter who couldn't hit for power.
DH - John Kruk.

Rotation.
1. Jaime Navarro
2. Todd Ritchie
3. John Snyder
4. Neil Allen
5. The 7-headed 5th starter monster from '04(Arnie Munoz, Jason Grilli, Scott Schoeneweiss, Felix Diaz, Dan Wright, Josh Stewart and Jon Rauch)

Bullpen
Closer - Billy Koch
Setup - Mike MacDougal, Jose Paniagua
Mid - Ryan Bukvich, Dewon Day
Long - John Davis
SS- Charlie Haeger.

This made me smirk. But, fwiw, I believe Schoeneweiss was the 4th starter. He hit a double at FLA that season in interleague and spent about 45 seconds at second staring into the White Sox dugout to see if anyone saw that, what he did right there.

And my contribution: Mike Jackson.

MikeW
04-18-2009, 02:24 PM
I have to go with the1968-70 Sox when I think of lousy ballplayers. Jerry Janeski, Matias, Jack Hamilton,Sammy Ellis,Tommie Sisk,Ossie Blanco and my alltime least favorite player,Sydney Lloyd O'Brien. From other years you can put John Jeter,Jose Segura,Julio Ramirez and Donnie Hill into the trash heap.

PaleHoser
04-18-2009, 05:13 PM
My All 80's Ineptitude Team:

1B-Joe Desa
2B- Jack Perconte
SS- Todd Cruz
3B- Lorenzo Gray
LF- Mark Ryal
CF- Kenny Williams
RF- Dave Stegman
C- Marv Foley

I'd put Ron LeFlore in CF on this team before KW. I remember LeFlore taking a routine flyball right off his forehead.

jdm2662
04-18-2009, 05:42 PM
yeah but I remember a catch he made at the old ballpark---dove into the seats

Hey, it was also shown on the Naked Gun. Don't forget that...

eriqjaffe
04-18-2009, 10:15 PM
Who pitches?Scott Ruffcorn

eastchicagosoxfan
04-19-2009, 04:57 AM
Scott Ruffcorn
Wasn't he a 1990's bust?

soxinem1
04-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Some interesting choices, but a lot of the players mentioned, Mike MacDougal, Neal Cotts, Dan Wright, Neil Allen, and Mike Caruso included, at least had a season here that was decent.

But I think guys who just plain out were crap their entire time in a White Sox uniform should be the object of scorn here.

Some of my picks over the past 30+ years:

Rodney Bolton
Phil Bradley
Jason Dellaero
Mike Diaz
Rob Dibble
Doug Drabek
Tom Fordham
Andy Gonzalez
Jesse Jefferson
Brian Keyser
Billy Koch
Tim Lollar
Robert Machado
Russ Morman
Jaime Navarro
Steve Rosenberg
Scott Ruffcorn
Ron Santo
Joel Skinner
Roy Smalley
Larry Thomas
Jim Winn
Bob Zupcic

SOXfnNlansing
04-19-2009, 10:27 PM
I didn't include Damaso Marte in my original post (in my mind, everyone on the 2005 team gets a free pass), but he was the absolute KING of letting inherited runners score. His personal ERA? Not so bad. But that doesn't factor in situations where he came in with runners on 1st and 2nd and two outs, walked (or plunked) a left-handed hitter to load the bases, gave up a two-run single, and then got the next guy to pop up for the third out. Marte's ERA for that craptacular outing? A sparkling 0.00!



You are 100% correct about Marte. You can throw vizzz the fizzz in with him too. Vizzz the fizzz can be the court jester in Marte's kingdom of letting inherited runners score.

California Sox
04-19-2009, 10:48 PM
Okay here's my list:

Steve Lyons, 1b
Steve Lyons, 2b
Steve Lyons, ss
Steve Lyons, 3b
Steve Lyons, lf
Steve Lyons, cf
Steve Lyons, rf
Steve Lyons, c

I'll give the man credit, he was versatile. Sucked in every position. Lyons, many forget, was the full-time starter at 3b pre-Robin Ventura. He was so bad that Ventura didn't get a hit the first two weeks of the season and he was still considered an upgrade.

As far as Alan Bannister is concerned: The guy wasn't the greatest fielder, but he could hit. Far worse players in my time as a Sox fan.

Here's one under "worst defensive outfielder I have ever seen" Ralph Garr.

johnnyg83
04-19-2009, 10:51 PM
Mike Colburn and Steve Kemp were pretty big busts. I was at Colburn's first game and IIRC he hit an inside the park homer. My friend's dad said he had an arm like Johnny Bench.

Navarro
Sax
Ritchie
Agosto
Kenny Williams
Who was that catcher/1b LH from Boston we signed for a year? 03? or 04? Rich Somebody?
Chris Snopek
Chris Sabo
Cory Snyder

RCWHITESOX
04-20-2009, 12:12 AM
My vote would be;
Tommy Davis OF
Daryl Boston OF
Jamie Navarro SP
Jay Johnstone OF Terrible OF
Billy Koch RP
Ben Davis C
Roberto Alomar 2B
Be Be Richard SS
Steve Sax 2B

palehozenychicty
04-20-2009, 12:46 AM
The Choice.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2009, 08:29 AM
Johnny:

Kemp had 19 home runs and 98 RBI's in his only season with the Sox in 1982. May all Sox players have that "bad" of a season.

Lip

Risk
04-20-2009, 09:32 AM
Who was that catcher/1b LH from Boston we signed for a year? 03? or 04? Rich Somebody?


I think you're talking about Brian Duabach. Yeah, he sucked bad.

Risk

johnnyg83
04-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Johnny:

Kemp had 19 home runs and 98 RBI's in his only season with the Sox in 1982. May all Sox players have that "bad" of a season.

Lip

Shame on me ...

I remember him being a disappointment. Maybe it's b/c he only stayed a year.

PaleHoser
04-20-2009, 03:24 PM
Wasn't he a 1990's bust?

Yes.

I should've known Ruffcorn wouldn't amount to much when I saw his Topps rookie card. I think they used his prom picture (http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Cards/Baseball/1992/Topps/36/Scott_Ruffcorn_RC).

It's hard for me to pick one starting pitcher for an All-80's Inept team (some seriously bad starting pitching from 1987-89), but my closer would definitely be Ron Reed.

eastchicagosoxfan
04-20-2009, 05:57 PM
Johnny:

Kemp had 19 home runs and 98 RBI's in his only season with the Sox in 1982. May all Sox players have that "bad" of a season.

Lip
I was at a game that Kemp hit a walk-off shot. He came up with the Tigers in the late 1970's, maybe '78? He was highly touted, along with Jason Thompson and Dave Rozema. I don't know off the top of my head if any of those guys were on the Tigers 1984 World Series winner.

eastchicagosoxfan
04-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Yes.

I should've known Ruffcorn wouldn't amount to much when I saw his Topps rookie card. I think they used his prom picture (http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Cards/Baseball/1992/Topps/36/Scott_Ruffcorn_RC).

It's hard for me to pick one starting pitcher for an All-80's Inept team (some seriously bad starting pitching from 1987-89), but my closer would definitely be Ron Reed.
Without going to a reference page, I drew blanks on the late 1980's staffs. Was Ramon Garcia on those teams? Rodney Bolton?

Reichardt
04-20-2009, 06:22 PM
Ed Stroud

Zisk77
04-20-2009, 06:23 PM
Back in the late '80's and early '90's, the Sox acquired not one, but 2 starting pitchers who were a season or two removed from leading their leagues in losses ....

Jose De Leon and Kirk McKaskill (sp?). Surprisingly, they were both pretty bad.

The painful thing was that they traded pre-prime Bobby Bonilla for De Leon!


DeLeon was pretty good for us. In fact he beat Clemens twice in one week (1-0 and 2-1 i think?) when Clemens only lost 4 games all year. His problem was the same as javy - he had too many good pitches and insisted in showing them all to each batter.

Zisk77
04-20-2009, 06:30 PM
I don't think I've seen Julio Cruz on this list. Once he got his fat contract, he was awful. I think he's the only MLB player I've ever seen get hit by a batted ball leading off third base in fair territory.


Crazy carl did this too while playing for the Bosox then got tossed for arguing the play.

300bowler
04-27-2009, 12:32 PM
Who would announce the game?

Who would the beer sponsor be?:gulp:

soxrme
04-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Navarro, BeBe Richards, Steve Sax
Worst beer - Falstaff
worst announcer - Ed Farmer

TomBradley72
04-27-2009, 05:36 PM
worst announcer - Ed Farmer

I'd have to go with Early Wynn, Del Crandall, J.C. Martin or Lou Brock for worst announcer.

NLaloosh
04-27-2009, 06:16 PM
Jerry Owens.

The Critic
04-27-2009, 06:31 PM
I think you're talking about Brian Duabach. Yeah, he sucked bad.

Risk

I was scanning the thread for Daubach, and I couldn't believe it took 11 pages to get to him.
I remember being pretty happy when the Sox acquired him, thinking he'd be a nice bat off the bench. He made me VERY sorry I ever felt that way.

JayBeast
04-28-2009, 03:33 PM
Daubach, batted .230 with a .352 OBP, we got what we paid for.
That is better than Brian Anderson's career numbers.
:o:


I was scanning the thread for Daubach, and I couldn't believe it took 11 pages to get to him.
I remember being pretty happy when the Sox acquired him, thinking he'd be a nice bat off the bench. He made me VERY sorry I ever felt that way.