PDA

View Full Version : Beckham's future with the Sox


DaveFeelsRight
04-11-2009, 08:24 PM
Somebody mentioned this in the Bold Prediction thread but, we currently have Getz at 2B and Alexei at SS. And within a year or two Beckham is going to be in the Majors. Someone has to go or he's going to have a position change. Thoughts?

I don't know if I should put this in Minor Observations or not but it's interesting to think about.

Frater Perdurabo
04-11-2009, 08:30 PM
If Getz (or Lillibridge) pan out at second base, I see Beckham moving to third.

He has a "third base" bat, but would bring shortstop quality defense to the hot corner.

This would allow Fields to move to 1B/DH.

UChicagoHP
04-11-2009, 08:49 PM
If Getz shows he is a solid pro, moving Alexei back to CF may be in the cards. Who knows at this point, but it's not a bad problem to have!

guillensdisciple
04-11-2009, 08:50 PM
If Getz (or Lillibridge) pan out at second base, I see Beckham moving to third.

He has a "third base" bat, but would bring shortstop quality defense to the hot corner.

This would allow Fields to move to 1B/DH.

How about Viciedo?

HomeFish
04-11-2009, 08:50 PM
Getz is not a major league ballplayer. If Beckham is any good, Getz will not be in his way.

Tragg
04-11-2009, 08:58 PM
Thusfar, Beckham is too good to play at 2nd.

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-11-2009, 09:05 PM
There is alot of possibilites that the Sox could turn to. Personally, I would keep Ramirez at SS, Fields at 3B, move Beckham to 2B, and try Getz out in LF. If I remember correctly, Getz has played in the OF in Charlotte (though I could have him confused with someone else). Alexei has looked good at SS (at least of what I've seen). Quentin would move back to RF as Dye will probably be gone after this year anyway. Plus we still may have Viciedo to find a spot, which if his defense doesn't shape up, I would say 1B.

asindc
04-11-2009, 09:12 PM
how about viciedo?

dh/1b.

sox1970
04-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Beckham will stay up the middle. Fields isn't going anywhere. Beckham may start out at 2B. I think he'll eventually be the SS of the White Sox for the next decade.

35th and Shields
04-11-2009, 09:18 PM
Getz is not a major league ballplayer. If Beckham is any good, Getz will not be in his way.

It's a bit early to jump to conclusions like this.

Thatguyoverthere
04-11-2009, 09:29 PM
Getz is not a major league ballplayer. If Beckham is any good, Getz will not be in his way.:rolleyes:

eastchicagosoxfan
04-11-2009, 09:30 PM
It's a bit early to jump to conclusions like this.
I think Getz could find himself on the trading block if Beckham lights up AA. It could be a win/win. Getz goes to a team where he can play everyday. The Sox get a quick return on their investment in Beckham. The Sox also get someone in return. That's all pure speculation though.

sunofgold
04-11-2009, 09:38 PM
Would make the most sense to put Beckham at SS and move Alexei to CF (our weakest position right now).

If Beckham is ready to be on the major league squad this year, then the most logical move is to move Alexei to CF.

I know that Alexei's best position is probably SS, but the same thing can probably be said for Beckham. You could also still play Alexei some games at SS.

Overall, you would be replacing Wise's bat with Beckham's bat.

Daver
04-11-2009, 09:45 PM
Would make the most sense to put Beckham at SS and move Alexei to CF (our weakest position right now).

If Beckham is ready to be on the major league squad this year, then the most logical move is to move Alexei to CF.

I know that Alexei's best position is probably SS, but the same thing can probably be said for Beckham. You could also still play Alexei some games at SS.

Overall, you would be replacing Wise's bat with Beckham's bat.

The problem with moving Ramirez to CF is that he can't play CF, he's even worse than Wise.

sunofgold
04-11-2009, 09:53 PM
He played a lot of CF for Cuba. He really hasn't play that much CF for the White Sox. I never heard that he was bad. I remember hearing scout saying that he was good at CF. I

don't remember him being bad in CF for the White Sox in very limited playing time there (haven't seen him play there in awhile). Why do you say that?

guillensdisciple
04-11-2009, 09:56 PM
I am pretty sure Ramirez's sample size was only 3 or 4 games in center so I don't know if we can just assume that he blows based off of such as small sample.

Daver
04-11-2009, 10:19 PM
He played a lot of CF for Cuba. He really hasn't play that much CF for the White Sox. I never heard that he was bad. I remember hearing scout saying that he was good at CF. I

don't remember him being bad in CF for the White Sox in very limited playing time there (haven't seen him play there in awhile). Why do you say that?

Well, the scouts for the Marlins, Rangers, Twins, and Reds, all desribed him as a slick infielder that has to rely way to much on his speed to cover his poor outfield instincts when I asked them about him, but perhaps all of them are wrong.

soltrain21
04-11-2009, 10:25 PM
Thusfar, Beckham is too good to play at 2nd.


This confuses me greatly.

rustysurf83
04-11-2009, 10:35 PM
How about Viciedo?

Viciedo is a corner outfielder by the time he makes it to the majors. Don't forget about Brandon Allen for 1b possibly...

sox1970
04-11-2009, 10:36 PM
I think Ramirez is a good enough athlete to convert to CF, but it won't happen this year. If that move is ever made, it'll be in spring training. I think he'll stay at SS this season no matter what.

rustysurf83
04-11-2009, 10:39 PM
This confuses me greatly.

It should, you can't be too good for a position. From the looks of it Alexei is a premier level defensive SS...he's not going to move because Beckham is "too good." How is he too good for 2b Tragg, its not like he's shown Gold Glove capability at SS through college or the minors thus far.

rdivaldi
04-11-2009, 10:49 PM
Getz is not a major league ballplayer. If Beckham is any good, Getz will not be in his way.

Getz is a major league ballplayer, don't be so dramatic. The thing is with Getz is that he's more likely a utility infielder. Beckham is much more talented, there's no doubt about that, but there's room for both of them in the future if we so choose.

sunofgold
04-11-2009, 10:59 PM
He started the 2008 season in CF. Somewhat in a platoon system. He couldn't hit and was almost sent down to minor b/c of his offense. Then, Uribe went down and he took over 2B. I don't recall anybody (coaches, fans, media) complaining about his defense in CF.

I have a hard time believing that Ramirez would be worse than Wise in CF. I believe that he would be an average CF. He would have the speed to make up for bad reads. Didn't Rowand sometimes get bad reads?

He should be fast enough to get to balls in the gap quickly. Has a strong arm. Seems to be pretty good at making adjustment. Probably would get better the more that he played there.

Still, of course, SS is his best position. And I would like to keep him there. But, we were talking about what to do when Beckham is ready to play at the major league level. This really could be right now, but there is no need for the WHITE SOX to rush him.

Beckham could be basically replacing Wise which looks like an upgrade offensively. Would we lose something defensively placing Beckham at SS instead of Ramirez ? Probably a little. Would we lose something defensively placing Ramirez in CF over Wise? Probably not. I would see that as a gain defensively in CF.

...
04-12-2009, 02:35 AM
Well, the scouts for the Marlins, Rangers, Twins, and Reds, all desribed him as a slick infielder that has to rely way to much on his speed to cover his poor outfield instincts when I asked them about him, but perhaps all of them are wrong.

Could those have been the same scouts that told their GMs to take a pass on Ramirez coming out of Cuba?

oeo
04-12-2009, 02:47 AM
Well, the scouts for the Marlins, Rangers, Twins, and Reds, all desribed him as a slick infielder that has to rely way to much on his speed to cover his poor outfield instincts when I asked them about him, but perhaps all of them are wrong.

Perhaps a better question to ask would have been, 'Can Alexei Ramirez become a viable option in CF?'

I know Keith Law has mentioned that scouts think a move to CF would be good.

jabrch
04-12-2009, 02:56 AM
I know Keith Law has mentioned that scouts think a move to CF would be good.

There are few pundits whose opinion I value less than Law.

longtimesoxguy
04-12-2009, 04:19 AM
I say TRADE SOMEONE. Let's see how good are scouting is

Frater Perdurabo
04-12-2009, 07:29 AM
How about Viciedo?

1B/DH/LF

Quentin moves to RF.

DumpJerry
04-12-2009, 07:55 AM
Getz is off to a pretty good start so far this year and did not stink up the joint during his cup of coffee last year. I can see him getting traded for solid prospects when Beckham is ready for The Show.

kravdog
04-12-2009, 08:53 AM
there are few pundits whose opinion i value less than law.

+1

Tragg
04-12-2009, 10:02 AM
It should, you can't be too good for a position. From the looks of it Alexei is a premier level defensive SS...he's not going to move because Beckham is "too good." How is he too good for 2b Tragg, its not like he's shown Gold Glove capability at SS through college or the minors thus far.A SS who hits like he does is epic, - generational; it's too early to cede that possibility.
A 2B who hits like he does is much more common.

thedudeabides
04-12-2009, 10:48 AM
Well, the scouts for the Marlins, Rangers, Twins, and Reds, all desribed him as a slick infielder that has to rely way to much on his speed to cover his poor outfield instincts when I asked them about him, but perhaps all of them are wrong.

And I've heard from a couple scouts that CF may be his best position, and he would be a plus CF with his arm. There have also been scouts who think he would make too many errors to play SS here.

It doesn't seem like there is a consensus at all from the scouts on Alexei.

So far, I think he looks too good at SS to think about moving.

BadBobbyJenks
04-12-2009, 11:22 AM
Is there any sort of precedent for a player being average at 2B and playing a great SS? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but this is exactly what Alexei looks like to me so far at short this season.

DaveFeelsRight
04-12-2009, 12:15 PM
The thing is though, Alexei is a natural SS

soltrain21
04-12-2009, 12:20 PM
How does everyone know so many scouts here?

UChicagoHP
04-12-2009, 12:52 PM
I think Ramirez is a good enough athlete to convert to CF, but it won't happen this year. If that move is ever made, it'll be in spring training. I think he'll stay at SS this season no matter what.

Agreed, and I'd wager a pretty penny the Sox give Ramirez another shot at CF if Becks is the real deal. 2B are fairly easy to find, and I do think Ramirez would be a fine CF with an off-season to prepare.

oeo
04-12-2009, 12:56 PM
There are few pundits whose opinion I value less than Law.

I never said anything about Law's opinion, I mentioned the opinion of the scouts he's talked to.

thedudeabides
04-12-2009, 01:40 PM
How does everyone know so many scouts here?

I have a family friend who is an area scout. He lets me pick his brain from time to time. He doesn't scout at the professional level, but has access to the scouting reports. He told me in Cuba Alexei played CF as much as any other position. He also played his share of 2b there, so it wasn't completely new to him.

BadBobbyJenks
04-12-2009, 06:26 PM
The thing is though, Alexei is a natural SS

Oh I know that, but you always hear how much easier it is to transition to 2nd than the other way around.

Lip Man 1
04-12-2009, 06:34 PM
If I had to guess (Hello Chris!!!) I think it'll shake out like this.

Beckham will play short, Ramirez will move back to 2nd with Getz becoming the full time utility guy.

Assuming Fields can handle 3rd, then you are looking at the Cuban kid eventually either at first base or left field with Quentin possibly moving to right.

Still need a center field however...maybe by 2012 (Shelby?)...ya never know.

Lip

Daver
04-12-2009, 07:34 PM
If I had to guess (Hello Chris!!!) I think it'll shake out like this.

Beckham will play short, Ramirez will move back to 2nd with Getz becoming the full time utility guy.

Assuming Fields can handle 3rd, then you are looking at the Cuban kid eventually either at first base or left field with Quentin possibly moving to right.

Still need a center field however...maybe by 2012 (Shelby?)...ya never know.

Lip

Ramirez is a better defensive SS than Beckham is, I can't see why the Sox would pull a NY Yankees and play the inferior player for the position.

Define Fields handling third, defensively or offensively?

The White Sox have a center fielder, again it really depends on how you choose to judge talent from an offensive or defensive viewpoint. If Jordan Danks comes close to meeting his potential you'll see him before 2012.

Frater Perdurabo
04-12-2009, 08:08 PM
If Jordan Danks comes close to meeting his potential you'll see him before 2012.

Can you provide an assessment of Danks' defense in CF?

Daver
04-12-2009, 08:18 PM
Can you provide an assessment of Danks' defense in CF?

Maybe in June, when I have had a chance to watch some tape of him playing, I won't presume to make a projection on things I haven't seen for myself.

sox1970
04-12-2009, 08:25 PM
Can you provide an assessment of Danks' defense in CF?

Older brother John said he could play defensively in the majors now. I'll take his word for it.

Lip Man 1
04-12-2009, 08:33 PM
Daver:

To answer your first question because Ramirez has shown he can handle 2nd base already. Beckham, you don't know if he can or not. In this scenario they put Beckham where he's most comfortable and move Ramirez who has already shown he can do the job.

Jordan Danks is certainly an option in center. I had forgotten about him.

In your case maybe the Sox have an outfield of the Shelby, Jordan Danks and Quentin with Fields, Beckham, Ramirez and Viciendo 3rd to 1st.

Lip

DumpJerry
04-12-2009, 08:34 PM
How does everyone know so many scouts here?
Because we have members who have been involved in baseball for a long time. Along the way, they have met people in the business who become a scout. A good friend of mine is buddies with a guy who used to pitch in the Yankees' system and is now a scout for the Yanks. He's the guy who signed Yoba.

Britt Burns
04-12-2009, 11:56 PM
Can you provide an assessment of Danks' defense in CF?

I saw him a bunch at UT, and he was pretty impressive. Good speed, strong arm, good reads off the ball. At a minimum I think he makes an above average right fielder, although I bet he will be able to stay in center.

DSpivack
04-13-2009, 01:13 AM
Because we have members who have been involved in baseball for a long time. Along the way, they have met people in the business who become a scout. A good friend of mine is buddies with a guy who used to pitch in the Yankees' system and is now a scout for the Yanks. He's the guy who signed Yoba.

Did Yoda and Joba have a kid together?

jabrch
04-13-2009, 04:35 AM
Maybe in June, when I have had a chance to watch some tape of him playing, I won't presume to make a projection on things I haven't seen for myself.

That's silly. Check his DIPS, FIPS and potato chips. That should be more than enough.

asindc
04-13-2009, 09:39 AM
that's silly. Check his dips, fips and potato chips. That should be more than enough.

lol!

SoxfaninLA
04-13-2009, 10:45 AM
The problem with moving Ramirez to CF is that he can't play CF, he's even worse than Wise.

That has never seemed to stop the White Sox from putting a guy in center before. This organization seemingly places no value on CF defense, its quite disturbing.

DirtySox
04-13-2009, 03:31 PM
Alexei to CF? Perhaps.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090413&content_id=4249370&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

chisox77
04-13-2009, 06:22 PM
GB's future looks very bright, wherever he plays - for the White Sox.

whitesox_09
04-14-2009, 11:34 PM
Getz is not a major league ballplayer. If Beckham is any good, Getz will not be in his way.


Quite frankly, I am happy that you are an anonymous message board poster and do not have a position judging talent for a MLB team. Getz will pan out as a very good player and may compete for an all star position once or twice in his career. If Beckham is the real deal, people can be moved around but don't say the kid "is not a major league ball player." Your utter ignorance drives me crazy.

Redus Redux
04-14-2009, 11:45 PM
I dont like the posts that are slamming Getz unfairly after a few games...

...but I at least agree that he would in no way block Beckham.



If Alexei's playing good SS, then they by all means would view Getz as a potential solution to their backup SS problem.

Lillibridge I'm sure they'd love to give more at-bats in Charlotte if they could. It's just that they cant right now b/c of Betemit's SS defense.

Dibbs
04-15-2009, 12:17 AM
Quite frankly, I am happy that you are an anonymous message board poster and do not have a position judging talent for a MLB team. Getz will pan out as a very good player and may compete for an all star position once or twice in his career. If Beckham is the real deal, people can be moved around but don't say the kid "is not a major league ball player." Your utter ignorance drives me crazy.

How is your elbow feeling Chris?

HomeFish
04-15-2009, 12:27 AM
All I did was express my opinion about Getz. I don't think he will pan out as a major league player.

I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see it happening.

whitesox_09
04-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Getz is not a major league ballplayer. If Beckham is any good, Getz will not be in his way.

Fair enough. I just feel Getz has shown enough at each level that leads me to believe he belongs on the roster. It would be a great problem to have if Beckham really is as good as most of us believe him to be.

TealTank
04-15-2009, 03:37 PM
I have a family friend who is an area scout. He lets me pick his brain from time to time. He doesn't scout at the professional level, but has access to the scouting reports. He told me in Cuba Alexei played CF as much as any other position. He also played his share of 2b there, so it wasn't completely new to him.

There is a difference between playing CF and playing CF well. Soriano plays LF, but I don't think many scouts or fans would say he plays LF well.

I'm not as high on Beckham as others on here. I like the early results of Alexei at SS. Unless something drastically changes, I don't want to see him moved around. If Beckham is as good as people say, he should be at 2nd.

russ99
04-15-2009, 04:35 PM
That has never seemed to stop the White Sox from putting a guy in center before. This organization seemingly places no value on CF defense, its quite disturbing.

That's not a new thing, I think it's an overall organizational philosophy to value offense over defense when evaluating players. I don't think the Sox are the only team like that either.

In fact I can't think of any position player in my 38+ years of being a Sox fan that was given a starting position solely for defensive reasons. Lance Johnson and Ozzie are the closest, but they weren't exactly slouches with the bat either.

And I'm sure other lesser-hitting starters who were good on defense were there more for financial reasons than any other.

Daver
04-15-2009, 05:16 PM
In fact I can't think of any position player in my 38+ years of being a Sox fan that was given a starting position solely for defensive reasons.

Royce Clayton.

kevingrt
04-15-2009, 05:17 PM
Royce Clayton.

:thechoice

God were those the days!

doublem23
04-15-2009, 05:35 PM
That has never seemed to stop the White Sox from putting a guy in center before. This organization seemingly places no value on CF defense, its quite disturbing.

Have you noticed how small our OF is?

Konerko05
04-15-2009, 05:41 PM
Have you noticed how small our OF is?

What about the other 81 games?

doublem23
04-15-2009, 05:42 PM
What about the other 81 games?

Supermanderson. :dunno:

I'm just saying it's no shock the Sox don't put much emphasis on defense for the CF since an adequate defensive CF like Rowand can live there pretty well.

That and I don't think they teach it in the minors, anyway.

kevingrt
04-15-2009, 06:16 PM
Have you noticed how small our OF is?

Dye is like 6'2.

No but really you are right.

asindc
04-15-2009, 07:17 PM
In fact I can't think of any position player in my 38+ years of being a Sox fan that was given a starting position solely for defensive reasons. Lance Johnson and Ozzie are the closest, but they weren't exactly slouches with the bat either.

Ron Karkovice.

Frater Perdurabo
04-15-2009, 07:38 PM
Royce Clayton.

The sad thing is that he wasn't even the best shortstop on the roster at the time, even though he was a league leader in a propellerhead stat! :rolleyes:

thedudeabides
04-15-2009, 08:29 PM
That's not a new thing, I think it's an overall organizational philosophy to value offense over defense when evaluating players. I don't think the Sox are the only team like that either.

In fact I can't think of any position player in my 38+ years of being a Sox fan that was given a starting position solely for defensive reasons. Lance Johnson and Ozzie are the closest, but they weren't exactly slouches with the bat either.

And I'm sure other lesser-hitting starters who were good on defense were there more for financial reasons than any other.

Uribe. His bat had potential, but the last couple of years I thought it was pretty clear he was just out there for defense.

soltrain21
04-15-2009, 08:34 PM
Dye is like 6'2.

No but really you are right.

I think Dye is closer to 6'5.

Tragg
04-15-2009, 08:50 PM
And I'm sure other lesser-hitting starters who were good on defense were there more for financial reasons than any other.
Guillen had a career obp of .287. pretty slouchy.