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View Full Version : *Official* You can't win if you don't score 4/9 Game Thread


jabrch
04-09-2009, 05:00 PM
Discuss

Jurr
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
You give up 6 ****ing runs in three games and come away with 2 losses, and the only win came via the Earl Weaver special. That really sucked.

downstairs
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Terrible 8 innings, showed some fire and got some luck all too late in the 9th.

Bobby with the diserved loss.

BoysMom3
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Well it looked like maybe somebody finally threw a switch on for the bats at the very end of the game - may it carry over to tomorrow.

kobo
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
After 3 games, pitching looks good, liking the bullpen sans Bobby's outing today. Offense is horrible right now.

russ99
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
I know the cold weather is a convenient excuse, but other teams are hitting the ball in bad weather, and against better pitching too.

What gives?

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Kennyball, no lead off man, no speed, guys out of the position in the order, its going to be exactly the same as last year, if we don't hit a 3 run home run, or 3 solo home runs, we aren't scoring 4 runs.

Jjav829
04-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Kansas City starters this series - 20 IP, 1 run, 21 Ks/5 BBs, 13 hits

Nice effort in the 9th against Soria. Too bad we couldn't do that against Davies.

hi im skot
04-09-2009, 05:02 PM
Not much to say after this one. John Danks is now owed his first dinner of the year after the offense forgets to show up.

downstairs
04-09-2009, 05:02 PM
But hey... lets give it up for the pitching- the thing people were most concerend about.

2.00 ERA thus far...

stockonline2
04-09-2009, 05:02 PM
Pretty frustrating couple of games. Yesterday, we couldn't hit Greinke, who is a great pitcher. Today, we couldn't hit Davies, who, well..... isn't a great pitcher.

I know our bats will heat up as the weather does. I just hope our pitching stays as solid as it is. Silver lining I guess.

Dub25
04-09-2009, 05:03 PM
I would've liked to have seen what Fields could've done instead of Wilson Benemit sitting around for the last 3 days in the cold.

Boondock Saint
04-09-2009, 05:03 PM
Sow now is it the hitters fault?

Bats need to wake the **** up. Two scoring plays in three games so far is pathetic.

Some fantastic pitching is being absolutely wasted in these games.

hi im skot
04-09-2009, 05:03 PM
I know our bats will heat up as the weather does. I just hope our pitching stays as solid as it is. Silver lining I guess.

Is that you, Greg Walker?

veeter
04-09-2009, 05:04 PM
Obviously, wasting great pitching sucks. I really thought the Sox were going to get Soria, he had nothing on his pitches IMO. The Sox do a lot of letting arrow straight fastballs go by, only to have to hit curve balls. Got to get back to .500 tomorrow.

gobears1987
04-09-2009, 05:04 PM
When you have a troubled offense and your GM does nothing to address it, this is what happens.

1908<2005
04-09-2009, 05:04 PM
But hey... lets give it up for the pitching- the thing people were most concerend about.

2.00 ERA thus far...

Uh who was concerned about Mark, Danks, and Floyd? I'm concerned about our 4 and 5 starters and I was scared about our offense. Alexei, Dye, Thome, and Q are good. Wise blows.

doublem23
04-09-2009, 05:04 PM
I would've liked to have seen what Fields could've done instead of Wilson Benemit sitting around for the last 3 days in the cold.

Betemit pinch hit for Brian Anderson, not Josh Fields.

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:05 PM
I would've liked to have seen what Fields could've done instead of Wilson Benemit sitting around for the last 3 days in the cold.

Betemit hit for Brian who hit for Wise. If you wanted to see Fields you would have to hope the manager puts his worst hitter 9, and doesn't bury a kid there in favor of one of his personal favorites to hit 8. Fields 9 and Wise 8 made no sense.

Blueprint1
04-09-2009, 05:05 PM
This has nothing to do with speed. We are not hitting the baseball what does that have to do with speed? If we have a fast guy that can't get on base its the same as a slow guy that can't get on base.

doublem23
04-09-2009, 05:05 PM
Betemit hit for Brian who hit for Wise. If you wanted to see Fields you would have to hope the manager puts his worst hitter 9, and doesn't bury a kid there in favor of one of his personal favorites to hit 8. Fields 9 and Wise 8 made no sense.

L R L L instead of R L L L

stockonline2
04-09-2009, 05:06 PM
Is that you, Greg Walker?

No.

Woofer
04-09-2009, 05:06 PM
To paraphrase a great Who song, meet the new Sox, same as the old Sox.:angry:

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:06 PM
When you have a troubled offense and your GM does nothing to address it, this is what happens.

Kenny better pray with everything he has that Wise Anderson or Getz can be serviceable leading off. He put every egg he possessed in the baskets of either Owens or Lillibridge.

Hartman
04-09-2009, 05:07 PM
There seems to be a pattern forming here, Sox always get off to an extremely slow start. What gives man.

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:07 PM
L R L L instead of R L L L

But Davies is a right hand pitcher and if they bring in a lefty Anderson is pinch hitting in the 9 hole anyway. Im all for balancing the lineup but again, there has to be a reason for it. The L R L L would have had zero impact.

Hitmen77
04-09-2009, 05:08 PM
What a disappointing series. Take away that Thome HR on Tuesday and we would have been swept.

Last year taught us that every game matters. I know KC is supposedly improved this year, but losing this series sucks.

stockonline2
04-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Another troubling thing about this series is the lack of fundamentals. Couldn't steal, couldn't throw out runners stealing and couldn't bunt (save Fields) and just bad base-running altogether.

doublem23
04-09-2009, 05:08 PM
But Davies is a right hand pitcher and if they bring in a lefty Anderson is pinch hitting in the 9 hole anyway. Im all for balancing the lineup but again, there has to be a reason for it. The L R L L would have had zero impact.

I agree, but that's pretty much the only thing I can come up with.

johnnyg83
04-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Coco kills us -- .316 9Hrs 36 rbis ...


he woulda fit pretty well in center and leadoff.

Dub25
04-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Betemit hit for Brian who hit for Wise. If you wanted to see Fields you would have to hope the manager puts his worst hitter 9, and doesn't bury a kid there in favor of one of his personal favorites to hit 8. Fields 9 and Wise 8 made no sense.

Oh yeah, my bad, one batter off. I guess I was thinking how I would have the lineup. I agree, what is with Fields batting 9th?

MsSoxVixen22
04-09-2009, 05:09 PM
Great pitching but the hitters act like they've forgotten how to hit! I hope they snap out of this soon! I hope they hit better off the Twins pitching! I'm going to the game tomorrow night, so hopefully I can bring them some luck! I hope Jose has his stuff tomorrow and lets get a win tomorrow night!

russ99
04-09-2009, 05:09 PM
Kenny better pray with everything he has that Wise Anderson or Getz can be serviceable leading off. He put every egg he possessed in the baskets of either Owens or Lillibridge.

Nice to know some of you are still ripping on Owens, he's not on the club. Blame the guys that are for not producing.

chisoxfanatic
04-09-2009, 05:10 PM
When does the first "Fire Walker" thread get started? The offense didn't even look good Tuesday, as Thome saved the team's ass from getting swept.

doublem23
04-09-2009, 05:10 PM
Luckily the Twins are sucking ass right now, too, so this should be an epic series coming up. :rolleyes:

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-09-2009, 05:10 PM
limp dick offense isn't gonna get it done....

asindc
04-09-2009, 05:10 PM
]Kennyball, no lead off man, no speed,[/B] guys out of the position in the order, its going to be exactly the same as last year, if we don't hit a 3 run home run, or 3 solo home runs, we aren't scoring 4 runs.

This has never been a part of KW's plans. In fact Getz, Wise, Lillibridge, and to a lesser extent Fields, represent an attempt to get more speed into the lineup.

For some reason, veteran hitters like AJ and Konerko cannot get it going in April. Well, at least the Sox can take it out on the Twinkees this weekend.

Dub25
04-09-2009, 05:13 PM
For some reason, veteran hitters like AJ and Konerko cannot get it going in April. Well, at least the Sox can take it out on the Twinkees this weekend.

Also looks like Alexei is going to be a slow starter in his career. He hasn't looked this bad since last April.

downstairs
04-09-2009, 05:13 PM
Uh who was concerned about Mark, Danks, and Floyd? I'm concerned about our 4 and 5 starters and I was scared about our offense. Alexei, Dye, Thome, and Q are good. Wise blows.

Well put it this way, with a shaky 4th and 5th, we absolutely need 1-3 to come through or the season is done.

Its a relief that we haven't seen any surprises.

Although Mark didn't look all that great, he does that from time to time.

asindc
04-09-2009, 05:14 PM
Another troubling thing about this series is the lack of fundamentals. Couldn't steal, couldn't throw out runners stealing and couldn't bunt (save Fields) and just bad base-running altogether.

Since when has AJ been able to throw out runners stealing?


I believe not going after Crisp was a money decision, not a baseball decision.

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:14 PM
Nice to know some of you are still ripping on Owens, he's not on the club. Blame the guys that are for not producing.

Im not ripping Owens, Im ripping Kenny. He knew this team needed a lead off man and for the 2nd year in a row he did nothing about it. Last year his big bad solution was go get Nick Swisher to play (out of position) CF and hit (out of position) Lead off. We ended up with a great 2 slot hitter leading off and having a down year.

This year, instead of fixing the problem, he relies on 2 unproven kids to get it done in spring training, and neither did, and he is left empty handed again. And again we have the perfect 2 slot hitter leading off. I know a lot of people don't get the difference between the 1st and 2nd spots in the order, but ask yourself if Tadahito Iguchi would have been nearly as good leading off vs hitting 2nd.

Kenny is a good GM at finding talent in trades, but he just throws things together, nothing ever seems like its part of a plan or a piece that just seems to really fit. In 2005, he made a lot of moves that were great FITS, not just to be the best collection of talent. He has appeared to sway from that, going with what he thinks is the best 9 players, not always the right 9.

veeter
04-09-2009, 05:16 PM
The Sox are going to be right in this thing. You always look like **** when you're not hitting. They will hit...enough. On a side note there's like 200 people in Sox Clubhouse, how cool is that??!!!

Thome25
04-09-2009, 05:21 PM
Our offense is bad.:angry:

Thome25
04-09-2009, 05:22 PM
The Sox are going to be right in this thing. You always look like **** when you're not hitting. They will hit...enough. On a side note there's like 200 people in Sox Clubhouse, how cool is that??!!!


Knowing our luck we'll pitch well and the bats'll go cold and then when the hitting comes around, the pitching will stink.

You have to win games like today's and yesterdays.

FedEx227
04-09-2009, 05:22 PM
When does the first "Fire Walker" thread get started? The offense didn't even look good Tuesday, as Thome saved the team's ass from getting swept.

Should be soon. Like I posted in the game thread:

Shouldn't a hitting coach be responsible if for about 4-5 years now we've had only a handful of .300 hitters?

Seriously, .300 hitters that played everyday on the Sox.

2005: Zero
2006: 2
2007: Zero
2008: Zero

That is god awful.

There comes a time when yeah, it's the players, but for the past 4 years we've had 2... TWO .300 hitters. TWO. TWO.

The Twins had two last year alone.

voodoochile
04-09-2009, 05:23 PM
To paraphrase a great Who song, meet the new Sox, same as the old Sox.:angry:

Cool, so they're going to the playoffs this year too? :bandance:

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:24 PM
Also, this series showed all those predictions of KC being good and maybe winning the division were not to far off. Good front of the roation, balanced offense, good bullpen. Hell, if they were used properly and Cruz was brought in in the 8th and not Farnsworth, we probably get swept.

russ99
04-09-2009, 05:24 PM
Im not ripping Owens, Im ripping Kenny. He knew this team needed a lead off man and for the 2nd year in a row he did nothing about it. Last year his big bad solution was go get Nick Swisher to play (out of position) CF and hit (out of position) Lead off. We ended up with a great 2 slot hitter leading off and having a down year.

This year, instead of fixing the problem, he relies on 2 unproven kids to get it done in spring training, and neither did, and he is left empty handed again. And again we have the perfect 2 slot hitter leading off. I know a lot of people don't get the difference between the 1st and 2nd spots in the order, but ask yourself if Tadahito Iguchi would have been nearly as good leading off vs hitting 2nd.

Kenny is a good GM at finding talent in trades, but he just throws things together, nothing ever seems like its part of a plan or a piece that just seems to really fit. In 2005, he made a lot of moves that were great FITS, not just to be the best collection of talent. He has appeared to sway from that, going with what he thinks is the best 9 players, not always the right 9.

I can't rip the guy, especially since he continually finds good players on the scrap heap. He's made a few blunders, but overwhelmingly he's made more good moves than bad ones.

And I also still wonder if his hands were tied on payroll this offseason, since otherwise I can't see why he wasn't in on either Crisp or Tavarez.

It also seems that he's adding significant payroll only after disappointing seasons. In 2005 we got all those new players like A.J., Pods, Dye etc. then only Thome in '06, nothing in '07. Then a bunch more players in '08. Now nothing again in '09.

But I wonder if that's more Jerry than Kenny. If we have a good team the year before, maybe there's less pressure to make a splash and sell tickets.

palehozenychicty
04-09-2009, 05:27 PM
Coco kills us -- .316 9Hrs 36 rbis ...


he woulda fit pretty well in center and leadoff.


Everybody here hates him, but he's better than Wise and Anderson. That would've been perfect for a coupla years until JoDanks is ready. Oh well.

cards press box
04-09-2009, 05:28 PM
Our offense is bad.:angry:

The Sox have played a grand total of three games and have faced the top three in the KC rotation. Meche has been solid the last two years, Greinke was excellent last year (some believe that he a shot at a Cy Young) and Davies looked great today. Good pitching has always stopped good hitting.

Frankly, this series reminded me of series the Sox played against L.A. around Memorial Day last year. The Sox lost 2 out of 3 in that series, too. Joe Saunders beat the Sox 3-1 on a Friday night, Jered Weaver shut the Sox out 2-0 the following afternoon and the Sox salvaged the final game on a Sunday night 3-2 against John Lackey. Carlos Quentin hit two homers off of Lackey, including a walkoff int he bottom of the ninth.

I wouldn't have drawn any conclusions about the 2008 Sox offense based upon that Angels series and I wouldn't draw any conclusions about the 2009 Sox series based upon this KC series.

I admit, however, that more offense from CF would be nice.

Thome25
04-09-2009, 05:28 PM
FedEx and Chisoxfanatic--

About the "Fire Walker" thread I don't blame the hitting coach for the lack of offense. These are grown men who know how to get themselves out of a funk if they have to. Blaming the hitting coach for a lack of offense and a .300 hitter is like blaming the groundskeeper for a terrible defense.

The blame needs to go past the hitting coach. The blame belongs on KW for building the team we have now with the slump prone, hot-and-cold hitters we have on it.

Chez
04-09-2009, 05:29 PM
Everybody here hates him, but he's better than Wise and Anderson. That would've been perfect for a coupla years until JoDanks is ready. Oh well.

True; but remember he was traded by Boston to KC; not signed as a FA. Who would we have had to give up for him?

AZChiSoxFan
04-09-2009, 05:29 PM
Obviously, wasting great pitching sucks. I really thought the Sox were going to get Soria, he had nothing on his pitches IMO. The Sox do a lot of letting arrow straight fastballs go by, only to have to hit curve balls. Got to get back to .500 tomorrow.

Totally agree.

stockonline2
04-09-2009, 05:30 PM
Since when has AJ been able to throw out runners stealing?


I believe not going after Crisp was a money decision, not a baseball decision.

Um, never. And how is this not troubling?

kittle42
04-09-2009, 05:31 PM
Hey, I give WSI some credit - no overreaction until 2 losses!

AZChiSoxFan
04-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Coco kills us -- .316 9Hrs 36 rbis ...


he woulda fit pretty well in center and leadoff.


Exactly what I just told my wife.

asindc
04-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Everybody here hates him, but he's better than Wise and Anderson. That would've been perfect for a coupla years until JoDanks is ready. Oh well.

I don't think Crisp is a terrible player, and he is certainly better than Wise and Anderson, but he is not worth what Cleveland paid him, what Boston paid him, and what KC is paying him. I know some fans (not necessarily you) don't want to think about the cost/benefit analysis, but only the Yanks (and no, not even the Mets or Boston) spend without doing such analysis.

LoveYourSuit
04-09-2009, 05:32 PM
After watching this offense last season (which made me age 10 years) and pretty much the same cast returning, what you see is what you get. No surprise here. Good pitching will eat us alive, look no further than the TB series.

It's no even the lead off situation to blame here. It's highly paid fat middle of the order hitters not doing their jobs..... hit the damn ball out of the park. That's what you are paid to do. 1 HR this series. If the Sox don't hit 1 HR per game minimum, we are not going to win many games.

russ99
04-09-2009, 05:33 PM
True; but remember he was traded by Boston to KC; not signed as a FA. Who would we have had to give up for him?

The Red Sox got Ramon Ramirez for Crisp. MacDougal wouldn't have gotten it done, but maybe Russell & Wassermann...

palehozenychicty
04-09-2009, 05:33 PM
True; but remember he was traded by Boston to KC; not signed as a FA. Who would we have had to give up for him?

Oh, that's right. For some reason, I thought that he was a FA. He did get traded to the Royals. Moore has done a good job of putting that team together. If they had one more pitcher and hitter, they'd be a real dangerous team.

asindc
04-09-2009, 05:33 PM
Um, never. And how is this not troubling?

It has always been troubling, no more so today than the past three years.

oeo
04-09-2009, 05:34 PM
Knowing our luck we'll pitch well and the bats'll go cold and then when the hitting comes around, the pitching will stink.

You have to win games like today's and yesterdays.

Wait, if I'm 'glass half empty', what the hell does that make you?

I only saw the 9th inning, but someone has to get going. Quentin looks to be coming around, so that's good. As for the rest of the lineup, Fields should be moved up...either put him at #2 or swap him with Alexei (at least temporarily)...one of our hottest bats should not be sitting around at #9 and Dye should be moved back up to cleanup.

voodoochile
04-09-2009, 05:34 PM
Our offense is bad.:angry:

Knowing our luck we'll pitch well and the bats'll go cold and then when the hitting comes around, the pitching will stink.

You have to win games like today's and yesterdays.

Grow some stones, man! There's 159 games left to play...

ONE-HUNDRED AND FIFTY NINE!!!

Thome25
04-09-2009, 05:35 PM
Wait, if I'm 'glass half empty', what the hell does that make you?

I only saw the 9th inning, but someone has to get going. Quentin looks to be coming around, so that's good. As for the rest of the lineup, Fields should be moved up...either put him at #2 or swap him with Alexei (at least temporarily)...one of our hottest bats should not be sitting around at #9 and Dye should be moved back up to cleanup.


Is there room in that boat for one more?:tongue: I told you I was half-joking earlier.

oeo
04-09-2009, 05:35 PM
Also, this series showed all those predictions of KC being good and maybe winning the division were not to far off. Good front of the roation, balanced offense, good bullpen. Hell, if they were used properly and Cruz was brought in in the 8th and not Farnsworth, we probably get swept.

Except the back of the Royals rotation might be the worst in the division. That's going to end up killing their bullpen. I predict a good first half and then they fall off the cliff.

JB98
04-09-2009, 05:35 PM
Even though the Sox were right in this game, you never felt like they were going to win it. They just aren't generating many scoring chances right now.

The Royals had quite a few scoring opportunities, and assorted Sox pitchers did a good job of getting out of jams today. Our offense really didn't put much pressure on Kansas City at all during this series.

asindc
04-09-2009, 05:35 PM
The Red Sox got Ramon Ramirez for Crisp. MacDougal wouldn't have gotten it done, but maybe Russell & Wassermann...

You also have to consider that Boston probably did not want to trade Crisp to a team it more likely would have to face in the playoffs (cue the Coach Mora soundbite).

Thome25
04-09-2009, 05:36 PM
Grow some stones, man! There's 159 games left to play...

ONE-HUNDRED AND FIFTY NINE!!!

I know....I know.....I come to WSI to vent that's all.....you guys are the closest Sox fans within miles of here that I can vent to.:D:

SoxGirl4Life
04-09-2009, 05:37 PM
We started off 1-2 last year too.

I'm just sayin'

cards press box
04-09-2009, 05:38 PM
True; but remember he was traded by Boston to KC; not signed as a FA. Who would we have had to give up for him?

K.C. dealt reliever Ramon Ramirez to the Red Sox for Crisp. last year, Ramirez appeared in 71 games for K.C., went 3-2 with a 2.64 ERA. In 71 and 2/3 innings, Ramirez walked 31 (6 intentional) and struck out 70.

To give equivalent or better value, the Sox would have probably had to give up Linebrink and no one would have wanted to do that.

Hopefully, as the season moves on, the Sox can acquire a CF. Perhaps Reggie Willits or Skip Schumaker will become available. Would the Cardinals deal Schumaker for a healthy Jayson Nix plus a prospect? How about Jerry Hairston, Jr.? Can he play center? San Diego doesn't figure to stay in the race very long. Could the Sox acquire Jody Gerut or Scott Hairston to play CF? Hopefully, the Sox are exploring these and other options to bring a CF/leadoff man to the South Side.

jabrch
04-09-2009, 05:38 PM
The blame belongs on KW for building the team we have now with the slump prone, hot-and-cold hitters we have on it.

The "slump prone, hot-and-cold hitters" have won a WS, made the playoffs twice, and missed in a 90+ win season in the past four years. Damn Kenny Williams straight to hell.

oeo
04-09-2009, 05:39 PM
K.C. dealt reliever Ramon Ramirez to the Red Sox for Crisp. last year, Ramirez appeared in 71 games for K.C., went 3-2 with a 2.64 ERA. In 71 and 2/3 innings, Ramirez walked 31 (6 intentional) and struck out 70.

To give equivalent or better value, the Sox would have probably had to give up Linebrink and no one would have wanted to do that.

Equivalent value would be giving up Thornton. No one was going to take on Linebrink's contract, especially after his shoulder problems he had last year.

jabrch
04-09-2009, 05:40 PM
Could the Sox acquire Jody Gerut or Scott Hairston to play CF? Hopefully, the Sox are exploring these and other options to bring a CF/leadoff man to the South Side.


Or we can stick with Wise or BA and likely be better off.

SoxGirl4Life
04-09-2009, 05:40 PM
We're really having Coco Crisp envy?

palehozenychicty
04-09-2009, 05:40 PM
I don't think Crisp is a terrible player, and he is certainly better than Wise and Anderson, but he is not worth what Cleveland paid him, what Boston paid him, and what KC is paying him. I know some fans (not necessarily you) don't want to think about the cost/benefit analysis, but only the Yanks (and no, not even the Mets or Boston) spend without doing such analysis.


Well, this is the crux of the problem. There are not a lot of good CFs available. Secondly, nobody wants to give up anything for anyone. Tell me, who out there could KW have gotten for nothing? Who?

Crisp and Taveras weren't ideal, but they'd be an improvement, although overpaid. They're overpaid because there isn't a flood of centerfielders in general, much less leading off a lineup. Obviously, I understand the cost/benefit analysis of the situation. You have to give up something to acquire talent. People are so used to KW fleecing people that giving up anything is heresy here. Nobody's worth paying for, but nobody has ideas either. Funny stuff, this board.

kruzer31
04-09-2009, 05:42 PM
If R.A.Dickey shuts the Sox down tomorrow then I will have to vent, for now, lets just say its a slow start.

JEFF

Metalthrasher442
04-09-2009, 05:43 PM
You guys it's early in the season.

We started off with the same record in three games last season.

The pitching was lights out.

Fields had a good series despite being surrounded by people having a bad series.

Getz looked pretty annoying to the Royals in the first game.

A LOT OF POSITIVES.

Let the offense play a couple more games together and try and get it together. No panicking yet. Be good fans =] Don't give up on them.

I cannot wait to see how this forum explodes if Jose and Colon cannot get it done against Minny.

oeo
04-09-2009, 05:46 PM
BTW, any time Bobby wants to mix in some breaking stuff is fine with me. C'mon, Bobby...*** was that?

Alright, I'm done. Kick some Twinkie ass tomorrow.

Jim Shorts
04-09-2009, 05:46 PM
Question regarding coaching, specifically hitting coaches:

Is it the responsibility of the hitting coach to make a .250-.260 hitter into a .300 hitter? Or to take the same .260 hitter and keep him around and slightly above .260?

If it is the hitting coaches responsibility to make bunches of .300 hitters, how many of those hitting coaches are out there?

The slow starts have nothing to do with Walker.

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 05:48 PM
You guys it's early in the season.

We started off with the same record in three games last season.

The pitching was lights out.

Fields had a good series despite being surrounded by people having a bad series.

Getz looked pretty annoying to the Royals in the first game.

A LOT OF POSITIVES.

Let the offense play a couple more games together and try and get it together. No panicking yet. Be good fans =] Don't give up on them.

I cannot wait to see how this forum explodes if Jose and Colon cannot get it done against Minny.

Lets not get a head of ourselves. The end results were good, but in ALL OF THESE games, the Royals blew a lot of chances to score. The starting pitching was good but not lights out.

The middle relief, that has been lights out, which is awesome for us. The difference between 85 and 92 wins is ALWAYS found in the bullpen.

cards press box
04-09-2009, 05:48 PM
Equivalent value would be giving up Thornton. No one was going to take on Linebrink's contract, especially after his shoulder problems he had last year.

O.K., no would have wanted to deal Thornton, eiither. That's exactly my point. The Red Sox were not giving Crisp away and the Sox, wisely I think, did not create a hole in their bullpen to acquire him.


Or we can stick with Wise or BA and likely be better off.

I don't know if BA/Wise is better than Jody Gerut or not. I'm just saying that some centerfielders may become available during the course of the season and the Sox will decide whether the cost of acquiring a new CF is beneficial to the ballclub.

I am just saying that panic over the Sox offense (and the production in CF) after three games is a little silly. Fields and Getz have looked good and the Sox pitching has looked great. I am confident that they will be in thick of this Central Division race all year and will be able to make deals this summer.

oeo
04-09-2009, 05:49 PM
O.K., no would have wanted to deal Thornton, eiither. That's exactly my point.

Joking? I think every MLB team would take Thornton.

asindc
04-09-2009, 05:51 PM
Joking? I think every MLB team would take Thornton.

I think that is what he meant. No Sox fans would have wanted that.

Boondock Saint
04-09-2009, 05:52 PM
Joking? I think every MLB team would take Thornton.

I think he meant no one on here or in the Sox organization.

Tragg
04-09-2009, 05:52 PM
Upgrades from Wise and Owens just aren't that hard to find, nor are they particularly expensive.
We basically used Sweeney as a throw-in for Swisher; Josh Anderson from the Braves was available for very little. Again, Anderson or Sweeney are average at best, which is light years better than Wise or Owens.
I think the reason that they don't do it is that Guillen thinks that Wise and Owens are decent players. He affirmatively picked Owens over Sweeney, for 1 example.

oeo
04-09-2009, 05:52 PM
I think that is what he meant. No Sox fans would have wanted that.

I think he meant no one on here or in the Sox organization.

Ah, my bad, I read that wrong.

Agreed.

cards press box
04-09-2009, 05:53 PM
Joking? I think every MLB team would take Thornton.

Perhaps I didn't say that clearly. No Sox fan would have wanted to see the Sox deal Thornton for Crisp. And, yes, virtually every MLB team would want Thornton coming out of the pen.

I am trying to say that acquiring Crisp from the Red Sox would have been costly to the Sox bullpen and I don't blame KW for not dealing the equivalent of Ramon Ramirez to acquire Crisp.

JermaineDye05
04-09-2009, 06:00 PM
I'm not worried about this teams hitting, they are going to hit. It's just a matter of when they will start. The bullpen looks great and Danks and Floyd have looked good in their first starts. The other teams are a mess as well, Indians/Tigers/Twins all lost. the Royals will come back to earth eventually, I mean Sidney Ponson and Horacio Ramirez are their 4th and 5th starters. I'm perfectly confident that this team will have first place by next week.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2009, 06:06 PM
We started off 1-2 last year too.

I'm just sayin'


While I am not going to blow my steam because of a 1-2 start, I refuse to accept the same product we saw last year. I will not be happy with a mediocre season that leads us to a first round entry. I consider this franchise to be a success, not a failure like the other side of town.

I don't want to see home-run baseball, I don't want to see hot/ cold, I don't want to go through inconsistencies, I don't want to see double plays with no outs, and I don't want to see a consistent inability to score with people on base and two outs.

I want to see winning baseball, I want to see a team that gets on base, moves the runner along, and doesn't rely on the long ball as its sole means of salvation. I want to see a mixture of contact, power, and some speed (a little since I know we don't have much). I want to see a balanced baseball team, not a team that goes on collective slumps because 6 out of 9 players hit home-runs, 1 0f the 9 can't and shouldn't play baseball, and the other two are mediocre at best.

No matter what, I believe it was the offense that did us in last year. Our bullpen was fine until Linebrink got injured. Our starting pitching will be fine if healthy, and if not, I am not going to complain, because there are things you can't control.

HOWEVER, I will not watch happily, if I see the same product on the field as last year. Even if we do sneak into the playoffs, I already know the end result, and I don't want to be out in the first round of the playoffs.

Yet again, a loss is a loss, and it has only been three games so I am not going to explode and go crazy. I will wait until the 15 game mark or the 20 game mark to make any assumptions or judgments. For now, I am happy to have baseball back, and I am happy that our pitching looks solid. This offense still has a chance, and I will let it play out.

Let's get the Twinkies folks, life is too short to complain about the third game of the year.

DickAllen72
04-09-2009, 06:07 PM
Betemit hit for Brian who hit for Wise.
That's this team's Achilles heal. Their centerfielders are so bad that they have to be pinch hit one poor hitting centefielder for another and then have to pinch hit for that one in his next at-bat. And if they tied that game, the weak-hitting Lillibridge would be in CF in the tenth. Who would be left to pinch hit for him if he came up with the game on the line in the eleventh? Compounding the problem is that they went into the season with the poor centerfielder who is also the worst hitter in the lineup as the leadoff man.

The way the team is constructed, with all the "swing-for-the fences" types in the lineup, they need someone who can add a little spark and help manufacture a run or two when the big boys are cold.

Think back to 2005. Even though through most of the summer the Sox scored mostly with the long ball, they really got off to their big lead in the division the first couple of months because of Podsednik and Iguchi helping to scratch out runs the first few innings giving the Sox the early lead in many of their games. That's what they've been missing ever since, IMHO.

They can't afford to carry an automatic out in the starting lineup day-in and day-out. On the bright side, the division seems pretty weak this season so the Sox may be able to stay in it until they can get someone to solve their CF/leadoff dilemma.

soltrain21
04-09-2009, 06:09 PM
I was at the game and didn't see the replay, but did Teahen really drop it on the exchange? From my angle it looked like he didn't even have position of the ball at all.

johnnyg83
04-09-2009, 06:13 PM
Looked like it on replays ... I think it was Callaspo though ... Callaspo = not a very good fielder

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 06:20 PM
That's this team's Achilles heal. Their centerfielders are so bad that they have to be pinch hit one poor hitting centefielder for another and then have to pinch hit for that one in his next at-bat. And if they tied that game, the weak-hitting Lillibridge would be in CF in the tenth. Who would be left to pinch hit for him if he came up with the game on the line in the eleventh? Compounding the problem is that they went into the season with the poor centerfielder who is also the worst hitter in the lineup as the leadoff man.

The way the team is constructed, with all the "swing-for-the fences" types in the lineup, they need someone who can add a little spark and help manufacture a run or two when the big boys are cold.

Think back to 2005. Even though through most of the summer the Sox scored mostly with the long ball, they really got off to their big lead in the division the first couple of months because of Podsednik and Iguchi helping to scratch out runs the first few innings giving the Sox the early lead in many of their games. That's what they've been missing ever since, IMHO.

They can't afford to carry an automatic out in the starting lineup day-in and day-out. On the bright side, the division seems pretty weak this season so the Sox may be able to stay in it until they can get someone to solve their CF/leadoff dilemma.

Thats the difference between 2005 and every team Kenny has run out since. In 2005, we won with the long ball, and we won without the long ball. Best compliment we got all year was Terry Francona after the ALDS "This team can just 1 run you to death".

DickAllen72
04-09-2009, 06:29 PM
Thats the difference between 2005 and every team Kenny has run out since. In 2005, we won with the long ball, and we won without the long ball. Best compliment we got all year was Terry Francona after the ALDS "This team can just 1 run you to death".
This is true. You need to be able to win when you're facing great pitching by scratching out a run here and there. Also when your big guns aren't firing, you need to be able to manufacture some runs to stay in the game.

oeo
04-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Thats the difference between 2005 and every team Kenny has run out since. In 2005, we won with the long ball, and we won without the long ball. Best compliment we got all year was Terry Francona after the ALDS "This team can just 1 run you to death".

I think the team as currently assembled is as close to that as we've seen. With Getz, AJ, Alexei, and Fields, we can do some different things. Now if we just had a leadoff hitter, and all those guys got going, it would be a well-rounded offense.

JB98
04-09-2009, 06:32 PM
This is true. You need to be able to win when you're facing great pitching by scratching out a run here and there. Also when your big guns aren't firing, you need to be able to manufacture some runs to stay in the game.

That's really going to be a problem again this year. When you have opposing pitchers who are on top of their game, such as Greinke and Davies the last two days, you gotta find a way to put some pressure on them.

Because they had good stuff, it was gonna be real hard to hit the ball out of the ballpark against them.

Did we try to bunt on Billy Butler today? That guy is a DH playing 1B. Sometimes, you gotta be a little more resourceful than just trying to mash your way through a game.

oeo
04-09-2009, 06:35 PM
Sometimes, you gotta be a little more resourceful than just trying to mash your way through a game.

I didn't see the game today, but at least in the first two games, this wasn't the case. I've liked their approach so far, they're just not hitting anything.

I think we really have to get Alexei going.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2009, 06:36 PM
This funk has carried over from the final week of spring training and right now to me, shows no signs of letting up.

They aren't even getting a lot of chances to score, period.

Another great pitching performance by a starter wasted on the wind.

Losing 2 of 3 versus Kansas City, at home, is not my idea of "getting off to a good start", as Jim Thome said in the newspapers last weekend.

This Minnesota series is going to be interesting. Contreras and Colon are pitching...we'll see.

Lip

Jerko
04-09-2009, 06:38 PM
I was at the game and didn't see the replay, but did Teahen really drop it on the exchange? From my angle it looked like he didn't even have position of the ball at all.


He never had it. Worst call I've seen in a while. That said, and I did not read the rest of the thread, do not bring your closer into a tie game. I've been saying that since the Keith Foulke days. As soon as Jenks came in I was worried.

oeo
04-09-2009, 06:40 PM
He never had it. Worst call I've seen in a while. That said, and I did not read the rest of the thread, do not bring your closer into a tie game. I've been saying that since the Keith Foulke days. As soon as Jenks came in I was worried.

You go to your best reliever right there. That wasn't the problem...Jenks apparently doesn't have a lot of confidence in his breaking stuff yet. He didn't look all that hot on Tuesday, either. Just throwing your hard stuff isn't going to cut it.

DickAllen72
04-09-2009, 06:40 PM
Did we try to bunt on Billy Butler today? That guy is a DH playing 1B. Sometimes, you gotta be a little more resourceful than just trying to mash your way through a game.
Exactly. And you have to have guys that are capable of doing the little things that win games. I really hope they're able to get such a player to fill the gaping CF/top-of-the-order hole.

JB98
04-09-2009, 06:41 PM
I didn't see the game today, but at least in the first two games, this wasn't the case. I've liked their approach so far, they're just not hitting anything.

I think we really have to get Alexei going.

No question. And Quentin as well. Hopefully, that double in the ninth off a good pitcher is the start of something.

We haven't had any speed on the bases the last two games either. Ramirez, Wise and Getz were all 0-fer the last two outings, and that makes it tough for Ozzie to get involved and try to generate something.

I am disappointed none of our speed guys tested Butler with a bunt. That guy might as well be wearing his glove on his head.

Domeshot17
04-09-2009, 06:41 PM
I think the team as currently assembled is as close to that as we've seen. With Getz, AJ, Alexei, and Fields, we can do some different things. Now if we just had a leadoff hitter, and all those guys got going, it would be a well-rounded offense.

This is my biggest gripe with Kenny and not finding a lead off man. This lineup has the other parts to be so balanced. Getz is a great 2 hitter, AJ is a great base runner, Fields is so athletic his speed with Alexei at the bottom of the order is so solid. If we can get all the pieces to fall in line with that, this offense could be dynamic.

JB98
04-09-2009, 06:49 PM
Exactly. And you have to have guys that are capable of doing the little things that win games. I really hope they're able to get such a player to fill the gaping CF/top-of-the-order hole.

And you know, part of the reason we won our opener was because Josh Fields displayed some resourcefulness. We were down 2-1, and Josh has good power. No one would have blamed him if he had taken a big swing and tried to tie the game against a meatball pitcher like Farnsworth.

Instead, he noticed the third baseman was back and thought, "I'm going to try to get something started." He ended getting a bunt single and starting the game-winning rally. When a team isn't going good offensively, you gotta try different stuff and maybe the element of surprise works in your favor. Get the other team's wheels turning.

Jerko
04-09-2009, 06:59 PM
Their 9 hitter has 4 more hits than our leadoff hitters. Key of the game today, 9 hitter got on, Crisp hit a homer. Awful.

soxyess
04-09-2009, 07:03 PM
This team has to be careful. If it doesnt get out of this funk it could end up on a long losing streak. You dont want to start off 1-9 where it becomes very difficult to catch up.

JB98
04-09-2009, 07:23 PM
This team has to be careful. If it doesnt get out of this funk it could end up on a long losing streak. You dont want to start off 1-9 where it becomes very difficult to catch up.

That's a little too doomsday for me. We lost a two-run game and a one-run game. It isn't like we're getting whacked 13-1.

WhiteSox1989
04-09-2009, 07:24 PM
Bring on the Twins!:bandance:

soxyess
04-09-2009, 07:29 PM
That's a little too doomsday for me. We lost a two-run game and a one-run game. It isn't like we're getting whacked 13-1.

Im just saying that they have to be careful. Its three games in. On the positive side. They all cant hit like this for long. Could they?

oeo
04-09-2009, 07:33 PM
This team has to be careful. If it doesnt get out of this funk it could end up on a long losing streak. You dont want to start off 1-9 where it becomes very difficult to catch up.

Where did 1-9 come from?

DickAllen72
04-09-2009, 07:33 PM
And you know, part of the reason we won our opener was because Josh Fields displayed some resourcefulness. We were down 2-1, and Josh has good power. No one would have blamed him if he had taken a big swing and tried to tie the game against a meatball pitcher like Farnsworth.

Instead, he noticed the third baseman was back and thought, "I'm going to try to get something started." He ended getting a bunt single and starting the game-winning rally. When a team isn't going good offensively, you gotta try different stuff and maybe the element of surprise works in your favor. Get the other team's wheels turning.
You and I are on the same page. :cheers:

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-09-2009, 07:36 PM
That's a little too doomsday for me. We lost a two-run game and a one-run game. It isn't like we're getting whacked 13-1.

ha...that's the point...no reason why we shouldn't be able to put up 2 runs a game....

The past two games were by no means anywhere close to out of reach....

JB98
04-09-2009, 07:39 PM
Im just saying that they have to be careful. Its three games in. On the positive side. They all cant hit like this for long. Could they?

No, they won't hit like this for long. I'd be SHOCKED if they start 1-9. Right now, we're 1-2 and I'm thinking about getting to 2-2.

No one is going to run away with this division. It isn't like others around the AL Central are starting on fire.

SoxGirl4Life
04-09-2009, 07:53 PM
No, they won't hit like this for long. I'd be SHOCKED if they start 1-9. Right now, we're 1-2 and I'm thinking about getting to 2-2.

No one is going to run away with this division. It isn't like others around the AL Central are starting on fire.

That's very true. Sox/KC was the only inter-division opening series. Cleveland got absolutely embarrassed by the Rangers, Detroit lost 3 of 4 in Toronto and Minny split with Seattle at the Deathdome. The division is going to be very evenly matched, and, from what I'm seeing, a low number of wins is going to take it this year.

I think we're still in this thing!

Rdy2PlayBall
04-09-2009, 08:14 PM
Your forgetting that KC did upgrade their pitching a bit, regardless if you can't accept they arn't half bad. Don't start predicting bad things because of two bad games. :tongue:

guillensdisciple
04-09-2009, 08:14 PM
That's very true. Sox/KC was the only inter-division opening series. Cleveland got absolutely embarrassed by the Rangers, Detroit lost 3 of 4 in Toronto and Minny split with Seattle at the Deathdome. The division is going to be very evenly matched, and, from what I'm seeing, a low number of wins is going to take it this year.

I think we're still in this thing!


I don't know why I found the enthusiasm so funny, hahaha. With 159 games, I sure as hell hope we are :D:.

Why doesn't the first week just go towards the celebration of the return of baseball, instead of our continuing debates on who sucks and who doesn't?


p.s. Wise does blow, but he still gets two weeks for me. Maybe, just maybe, Kenny sees something in him that we do not.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-09-2009, 08:16 PM
Wow I didn't know Danks went scoreless... I thought he gave up the one. Wth? Come on Jenks!!!! What the hell is wrong with you? :scratch:

Mohoney
04-09-2009, 08:17 PM
I believe not going after Crisp was a money decision, not a baseball decision.

I think it was more about giving up pitching to trade for Crisp than it was about the money. The Royals didn't get Crisp for a bunch of nobodies, IIRC.

thomas35forever
04-09-2009, 08:20 PM
That was pretty frustrating. Let's just pray this offense wakes up tomorrow so we can play as well as we did against the Twins at home last year.

BadBobbyJenks
04-09-2009, 08:36 PM
Really, the only solution is to trade Bobby Jenks.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2009, 08:41 PM
Really, the only solution is to trade Bobby Jenks.


Are you being serious or are you being sarcastic?

SoxGirl4Life
04-09-2009, 08:43 PM
Are you being serious or are you being sarcastic?

I'm pretty sure teal was implied there....

guillensdisciple
04-09-2009, 08:44 PM
I'm pretty sure teal was implied there....

Just making sure.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-09-2009, 08:44 PM
Are you being serious or are you being sarcastic?We could get some good players, or a good player and some prospects... But I don't know why we would do that when we could have traded Dye, Konerko or Thome. Jenks is still young, he just chose a very crappy day to give up a homerun.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2009, 08:57 PM
We could get some good players, or a good player and some prospects... But I don't know why we would do that when we could have traded Dye, Konerko or Thome. Jenks is still young, he just chose a very crappy day to give up a homerun.

I have always thought about him as a trading chip, because we can probably get a guy to fill in the trouble spots we have. Closers are hard to find however, so I don't know if Kenny will take a gamble like that. We just don't have an arm to put in that spot.

Ehh, I will ride this out a bit before asking for any heads, especially Bobby's.

BadBobbyJenks
04-09-2009, 09:00 PM
Every day I am trying to ween WSI posters off of teal.

kitekrazy
04-09-2009, 09:10 PM
You give up 6 ****ing runs in three games and come away with 2 losses, and the only win came via the Earl Weaver special. That really sucked.

Is it too early to start the Fire Greg Walker thread? :o:

Thome25
04-09-2009, 09:13 PM
The "slump prone, hot-and-cold hitters" have won a WS, made the playoffs twice, and missed in a 90+ win season in the past four years. Damn Kenny Williams straight to hell.

How many of them are actually still there from the WS run? Two? Three?

SoxGirl4Life
04-09-2009, 09:13 PM
Is it too early to start the Fire Greg Walker thread? :o:

This is another one of those "breaking WSI of teal" statements, right?

JB98
04-09-2009, 09:22 PM
How many of them are actually still there from the WS run? Two? Three?

Three. Dye, Konerko and Pierzynski.

There are only six players left from our WS team. Three hitters, three pitchers.

Buehrle, Contreras and Jenks are the holdover pitchers.

jabrch
04-09-2009, 09:24 PM
How many of them are actually still there from the WS run? Two? Three?

Same type pf player...same core....You can't bitch about the terrible results of this type of player. The restults have been good.

The Dude
04-09-2009, 09:26 PM
Not much to say after this one. John Danks is now owed his first dinner of the year after the offense forgets to show up.

How many dinners did he deserve last year? Probably enough to get him 25 wins. This offense makes me sick.

Jurr
04-09-2009, 09:33 PM
How many of them are actually still there from the WS run? Two? Three?

Yeah, and the rest are non factors in major league baseball except for Rowand.
Every team that remains legitimate over the years must filter in good young players consistently. With that youth comes inexperience. With that inexperience comes growing pains. Hopefully our pitching staff is strong enough to carry the team, much like it did in '05. That championship offense was versatile, but it still relied on the long ball to a large extent. This is a long season, and the offense is going to frustrate us quite a bit. At the end of 162, though, the pitching staff will decide where things end up. The youth and inexperience lies in the offense. Hopefully Kenny made the right moves. As has been states previously, Kenny has had a strong track record over the past five years.
Let's get to May before we begin thinking about crucifying this team.

october23sp
04-09-2009, 09:35 PM
Isn't that Jenks' only homer he's given up at the Cell? or second maybe. I remember TBS talking about it last year that he had given up 1 or 2 home runs at the Cell in his career.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2009, 09:39 PM
The 2005 offense was very much more dynamic than this group. In addition to the power of Paulie (40 HR), Dye (31), Everett (23) and Crede (22), they also had four starters with double-digit stolen base totals: Pods (59), Rowand (16), Iguchi (15) and Dye (11). Ozuna swiped 14 and Harris stole 10.

This year, it's likely only Getz, Fields and Alexei might get double digit steals. (I suppose Wise or BA are capable of double-digit steals, but you can't steal if you can't get on base in the first place, or if your manager won't even let you play.)

That is a significant drop in team speed from 2005 to 2009.

KW deserves credit for rebuilding the pitching staff on the fly, but scorn for letting the offense get slow.

asindc
04-09-2009, 09:41 PM
Isn't that Jenks' only homer he's given up at the Cell? or second maybe. I remember TBS talking about it last year that he had given up 1 or 2 home runs at the Cell in his career.

It is only the 2nd since that TBS game you are referring to. Hope they haven't jinxed him!:o:

kitekrazy
04-09-2009, 09:51 PM
We could get some good players, or a good player and some prospects... But I don't know why we would do that when we could have traded Dye, Konerko or Thome. Jenks is still young, he just chose a very crappy day to give up a homerun.

That's an awful lot to assume. Prospects are never certain.

guillen4life13
04-09-2009, 10:00 PM
The 2005 offense was very much more dynamic than this group. In addition to the power of Paulie (40 HR), Dye (31), Everett (23) and Crede (22), they also had four starters with double-digit stolen base totals: Pods (59), Rowand (16), Iguchi (15) and Dye (11). Ozuna swiped 14 and Harris stole 10.

This year, it's likely only Getz, Fields and Alexei might get double digit steals. (I suppose Wise or BA are capable of double-digit steals, but you can't steal if you can't get on base in the first place, or if your manager won't even let you play.)

That is a significant drop in team speed from 2005 to 2009.

KW deserves credit for rebuilding the pitching staff on the fly, but scorn for letting the offense get slow.

We're three games in! The pitching has been lights out. The offense seems to be in a funk but I'm confident they will break out of it very soon.

There are some positives going on also.

First off, Josh Fields has looked really solid. I know he had an error in the field, but it was a throwing error. His performance of getting the ball into his glove with reasonable range--what we were all worried about--has been excellent so far. His arm is reliable and today's error was out of the ordinary. At the plate Fields really looks better than everyone else on the team. He's shown a decent eye, laid down that nice bunt hit, and has swung his way on base. Let's hope he can keep it up.

Getz has also looked decent. I don't think the results show the whole story, and I really like his hustle. There have been a few plays at first where he legged it out and made it very close. I like his style and I think he is going to have a very good season in the leadoff role, even if he didn't get on base today.

Dye has been hitting decently, even though he hasn't shown any power.

Thome has been decent. Paulie had a few good AB today.

I think the offense is close, and they've faced some damn good pitching so far in every game except for the Farnsworth inning.

But this series was telling: the Royals are going to be very tough to beat this year. Their pitching is nasty and the offense has huge potential.

Frater Perdurabo
04-09-2009, 10:04 PM
We're three games in! The pitching has been lights out. The offense seems to be in a funk but I'm confident they will break out of it very soon.

How is it negative simply to state the fact that the Sox are much slower than they were in 2005?

Yes, we're only three games into the year, but this has the makings of being another feast or famine offense because there is so little team speed.

Rdy2PlayBall
04-09-2009, 10:05 PM
How is it negative simply to state the fact that the Sox are much slower than they were in 2005?

Yes, we're only three games into the year, but this has the makings of being another feast or famine offense because there is so little team speed.They are sure the hell a lot faster than last year, so who cares? :scratch:

***Nevermind the "a lot" for those of you who always love jump on people. Though they are faster.

guillen4life13
04-09-2009, 10:12 PM
How is it negative simply to state the fact that the Sox are much slower than they were in 2005?

Yes, we're only three games into the year, but this has the makings of being another feast or famine offense because there is so little team speed.

The Sox are a lot faster than last year and I believe they have a much more balanced lineup.

Positional Speed Comparisons:

C AJ=AJ
1B PK=PK
2B Getz>Ramirez
SS Ramirez<Cabrera
3B Fields>>Crede
LF Quentin=Quentin
CF Wise/BA>Swisher
RF JD=JD

oeo
04-09-2009, 11:45 PM
You know who's a ****ing asshat? Flub fan Mark Schanowski. Apparently this is going to be a "loooooong year" for the Sox. :rolleyes:

Boondock Saint
04-09-2009, 11:49 PM
You know who's a ****ing asshat? Flub fan Mark Schanowski. Apparently this is going to be a "loooooong year" for the Sox. :rolleyes:

I had no idea he posted here. Thanks for the heads up!

FedEx227
04-09-2009, 11:51 PM
How is it negative simply to state the fact that the Sox are much slower than they were in 2005?

Yes, we're only three games into the year, but this has the makings of being another feast or famine offense because there is so little team speed.

I'm not sure that's just team speed doing that. It's also a relation to cutting down a swing, trying to get a single, using both fields, etc. You don't necessarily have to have a tremendous amount of speed to use the gaps.

oeo
04-09-2009, 11:53 PM
I had no idea he posted here. Thanks for the heads up!

Haha, there's a difference. Sox fans letting their frustration out, compared to a Flub fan reporter who is supposed to be unbiased. I hate that guy, what a jackass.

Nellie_Fox
04-10-2009, 01:21 AM
Every day I am trying to ween WSI posters off of teal.Well, don't. It was started because of the endless arguments caused by people not picking up sarcasm (which can be difficult to detect sometimes without facial expressions and voice inflections.) I wish some other boards I'm on had something like it.

palehozenychicty
04-10-2009, 01:29 AM
Honestly, the Royals are who people thought they'd be. Give them some credit. They are a decent team now, and will cause problems. The Sox were lucky to get that game with Thome's bomb.

doublem23
04-10-2009, 01:36 AM
Well, don't. It was started because of the endless arguments caused by people not picking up sarcasm (which can be difficult to detect sometimes without facial expressions and voice inflections.) I wish some other boards I'm on had something like it.

Teal is the ****.

The one thing this board doesn't have enough of is pointless arguments.

whitesox901
04-10-2009, 03:16 AM
we've given up only 6 runs in three games, and were 1-2 :(:

pudge
04-10-2009, 05:44 AM
Cool, so they're going to the playoffs this year too? :bandance:

Ah, so you're happy with an overmatched one-and-done first round performance? Okay, good to know. :cool:

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2009, 07:23 AM
The Sox are a lot faster than last year and I believe they have a much more balanced lineup.

Positional Speed Comparisons:

C AJ=AJ
1B PK=PK
2B Getz>Ramirez
SS Ramirez<Cabrera
3B Fields>>Crede
LF Quentin=Quentin
CF Wise/BA>Swisher
RF JD=JD

AJ runs the bases well for a guy with below average speed, but he's not a threat to steal. Also, AJ, JD, PK and Thome are all one year older and presumably getting incrementally slower than they were a year ago.

As you point out, the real upgrade is with Fields and Getz. BA and Wise can run well and steal, too, but as I said before, you can't steal if you can't get on base or can't even get to play.

I'm not sure that's just team speed doing that. It's also a relation to cutting down a swing, trying to get a single, using both fields, etc. You don't necessarily have to have a tremendous amount of speed to use the gaps.

Great point!

The Cell has virtually no gaps, and opposing teams simply play "no doubles" defense against the Sox. And their middle of the order hitters all cannot take the extra base on a single. Therefore, the Sox offense has few weapons: walks, singles and homers. Thankfully the home run is a guaranteed run(s). But when the homers aren't flying, the Sox simply aren't winning. Last year, I believe the Sox won fewer than 10 games in which they did not hit a home run. Look for more of the same this year, unless Wise/BA can produce. Therefore, getting back to your point, the Sox simply don't shorten their swings, because they know that if they are sticking to singles, it often will take four hits/walks to score a run!

kittle42
04-10-2009, 09:21 AM
Ah, so you're happy with an overmatched one-and-done first round performance? Okay, good to know. :cool:

Once you get there, it is always a total crapshoot. All teams suddenly become equal.

spiffie
04-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Once you get there, it is always a total crapshoot. All teams suddenly become equal.
Except for teams either from Oakland or Minnesota, as those teams are fatally flawed and incapable of winning in the playoffs.

voodoochile
04-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Ah, so you're happy with an overmatched one-and-done first round performance? Okay, good to know. :cool:

I'll take my chances if TCQ is healthy - especially with Danks and Floyd having a year and a playoff series under their belts and Josh Fields instead of Juan Uribe.

voodoochile
04-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Once you get there, it is always a total crapshoot. All teams suddenly become equal.

Would you like to replay last year's ALDS with a healthy TCQ and no other changes? I sure would...

jabrch
04-10-2009, 10:21 AM
How is it negative simply to state the fact that the Sox are much slower than they were in 2005?

Yes, we're only three games into the year, but this has the makings of being another feast or famine offense because there is so little team speed.


The last 4 years of feast or famine have resulted in a WS, 2 post season trips and 3 89+ win teams. I have no problem with that. I hope we keep on doing what we are doing.

kittle42
04-10-2009, 10:45 AM
Would you like to replay last year's ALDS with a healthy TCQ and no other changes? I sure would...

I'd have liked to have gotten there without having to expend our good starters scratching by Detroit and Minny and not have Vazquez pitching game 1.

Woofer
04-10-2009, 11:18 AM
The last 4 years of feast or famine have resulted in a WS, 2 post season trips and 3 89+ win teams. I have no problem with that. I hope we keep on doing what we are doing.

I know that sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but the numbers speak for themselves. The last few years have been great, it's just that when you compare the last few years to 2005, it seems like a letdown. 2005 spoiled us, we want and deserve the best from the White Sox.

jabrch
04-10-2009, 11:20 AM
I'd have liked to have gotten there without having to expend our good starters scratching by Detroit and Minny and not have Vazquez pitching game 1.

Who wouldn't?

jabrch
04-10-2009, 11:21 AM
I know that sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but the numbers speak for themselves. The last few years have been great, it's just that when you compare the last few years to 2005, it seems like a letdown. 2005 spoiled us, we want and deserve the best from the White Sox.

Want? sure - we always want the best.

Deserve? I'm not so sure we are entitled to anything other than effort. And I am wholly convinced we get a best effort from ownership, front office, management/coaches and players.

doublem23
04-10-2009, 11:28 AM
Once you get there, it is always a total crapshoot. All teams suddenly become equal.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2006.shtml

jabrch
04-10-2009, 11:34 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2006.shtml


http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1990.shtml
Don't forget us...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/1987.shtml
or us...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/1995.shtml
or us...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2000.shtml
or us...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2008.shtml
or us...

Lots of longshots on October 1 celebrate in late October. Get me 90+ wins every year. I'll have enjoyed a great regular season. Then the post season becomes both gravy, and a crap shoot.

kittle42
04-10-2009, 11:42 AM
6 going back to 1987? So 6/22? Good, but, I'd rather be in the 16/22.

doublem23
04-10-2009, 11:46 AM
6 going back to 1987? So 6/22? Good, but, I'd rather be in the 16/22.

That's not even all the times the "best" team didn't win the World Series; 2004, 2003, 2001 and 1997 were all won by Wild Card teams, too.

You just got to get there.

jabrch
04-10-2009, 12:00 PM
6 going back to 1987? So 6/22? Good, but, I'd rather be in the 16/22.


How many times did the best overall record actually win the WS?

08 - No
07 - Yes (tie)
06 - No
05 - No
04 - No
03 - No
02 - No
01 - No
00 - Of course not

Put me in the 9 of 10...I'd be fine.

There are liars, damned liars and statisticians. I can make most numbers tell you what ever you want them to tell you. That's the beauty of being a professional number cruncher.

kittle42
04-10-2009, 12:17 PM
How many times did the best overall record actually win the WS?

08 - No
07 - Yes (tie)
06 - No
05 - No
04 - No
03 - No
02 - No
01 - No
00 - Of course not

Put me in the 9 of 10...I'd be fine.

There are liars, damned liars and statisticians. I can make most numbers tell you what ever you want them to tell you. That's the beauty of being a professional number cruncher.

I'll go take a look myself when I have a little time, but really I'd be less interested in the best record and more interested in, say, the top 4 vs. bottom 4 teams that get in. I'm interested in how those play out. I shall report back!

jabrch
04-10-2009, 12:50 PM
I'll go take a look myself when I have a little time, but really I'd be less interested in the best record and more interested in, say, the top 4 vs. bottom 4 teams that get in. I'm interested in how those play out. I shall report back!


Curious to what the answer is... Actually, if you do it, just list the WS winners, and where they ranked in terms of # of wins... that might be even more interesting.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2009, 04:01 PM
The last 4 years of feast or famine have resulted in a WS, 2 post season trips and 3 89+ win teams. I have no problem with that. I hope we keep on doing what we are doing.

Wrong. 2005 was not feast or famine on offense. They could score with the long ball, and they could manufacture runs.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2009, 04:40 PM
Frater:

Agreed. Top five in the league in home runs, stolen bases, sacrifice bunts, sacrifice flies and infield hits.

You'd think as many times as folks have said this stat, people would have gotten the message by now.

Oh well.

Lip

JB98
04-10-2009, 05:41 PM
I know that sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but the numbers speak for themselves. The last few years have been great, it's just that when you compare the last few years to 2005, it seems like a letdown. 2005 spoiled us, we want and deserve the best from the White Sox.

I've always had a little trouble getting my mind around the whole notion of fans deserving something. That's one of the things I hate about the North Siders. They think they "deserve" a championship. Why? Do they cheer harder for their team than fans of other teams? Do they want to win more than fans in other parts of the country? I don't believe so. Every team has its fair share of loyal fans, but only one can be champion.

How fans manage their expectations is an interesting topic to me. It's especially interesting for us as White Sox fans. It is true that this organization and this fan base celebrated a World Series title just four short years ago. It is also true that this organization has never made back-to-back playoff appearances. Ever.

So, when people say that getting back to the playoffs this year and losing in the first round would not be an acceptable result, that irks me a little bit. I would absolutely LOVE for this organization to be in the postseason on an annual or close-to-annual basis. Who am I to DEMAND a World Series winner every year? If the White Sox are in the hunt year after year after year, I'm happy as a fan. If you're always in the hunt, eventually that year is going to come where you kick the door down and win a championship.

It's hard to win the World Series. We all know this, because our favorite team recently ended a championship drought that lasted generations. Those fans that demand a world championship every year are setting themselves up for a big heap of disappointment.

pudge
04-10-2009, 06:42 PM
I'll take my chances if TCQ is healthy - especially with Danks and Floyd having a year and a playoff series under their belts and Josh Fields instead of Juan Uribe.

Agreed. I still think it's a valid concern that we haven't made enough changes to get back. But there will always be ledge-jumpers three games into the season.

asindc
04-10-2009, 06:59 PM
I've always had a little trouble getting my mind around the whole notion of fans deserving something. That's one of the things I hate about the North Siders. They think they "deserve" a championship. Why? Do they cheer harder for their team than fans of other teams? Do they want to win more than fans in other parts of the country? I don't believe so. Every team has its fair share of loyal fans, but only one can be champion.

How fans manage their expectations is an interesting topic to me. It's especially interesting for us as White Sox fans. It is true that this organization and this fan base celebrated a World Series title just four short years ago. It is also true that this organization has never made back-to-back playoff appearances. Ever.

So, when people say that getting back to the playoffs this year and losing in the first round would not be an acceptable result, that irks me a little bit. I would absolutely LOVE for this organization to be in the postseason on an annual or close-to-annual basis. Who am I to DEMAND a World Series winner every year? If the White Sox are in the hunt year after year after year, I'm happy as a fan. If you're always in the hunt, eventually that year is going to come where you kick the door down and win a championship.

It's hard to win the World Series. We all know this, because our favorite team recently ended a championship drought that lasted generations. Those fans that demand a world championship every year are setting themselves up for a big heap of disappointment.

A toast to you, my fellow Sox fan, for you have spoken truth.:gulp:

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2009, 07:44 PM
Frater:

Agreed. Top five in the league in home runs, stolen bases, sacrifice bunts, sacrifice flies and infield hits.

You'd think as many times as folks have said this stat, people would have gotten the message by now.

Oh well.

Lip

Lip, I thought you might like to know that the Texas Intercollegiate Press Association today inducted former Sox announcer Bill Mercer into its Hall of Fame. He's living in Richardson, Texas, and does Frisco Rough Riders (AA) games.

Lip Man 1
04-10-2009, 11:30 PM
Didn't know Bilkl was still calling games. Spoke to him last year...he's on the docket for a future interview.

Lip