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View Full Version : Wise and KW's own playing days


Redus Redux
04-01-2009, 11:41 AM
Let me start out by saying I like Wise probably more than 90% of the board it seems. I wish he was lower in the order, but I think our top of the order needs so much help that I'll prioritize his capacity for getting hot over centerfield defense. Thats me.

But if we look at the reasons for this move being made, might we say that it is some kind of search for justice from KW's playing days, where the hard working guy (with mediocre talent by MLB standards) here has a chance to beat out some other people....

...and even though I dont think Brian is tons more talented, in an all-around way you'd say he is more talented. Yet still, Wise was spoken of highly all Spring by the decision-makers.

Ozzie praised Wise's spring pretty openly, whereas KW said Brian was off and on and then back to 2008 level. They were both off and on!



Anyway, does Wise as a cinderella story cloud the minds of perhaps KW and even Ozzie too?

Madvora
04-01-2009, 11:49 AM
Never make up your mind about a player before the season even starts. It just makes people look stupid. I have high hopes for this team and I'm just waiting to see what happens.

Thome25
04-01-2009, 11:53 AM
Welcome to WSI!!:D:

LoveYourSuit
04-01-2009, 12:07 PM
Wise will be as bad as Cabrera, Erstad and Pods (post 2005) were for us in the past. They were not good at leading off.


This team will go as far as our middle of the order takes us along with the starting pitching. That's as easy as I can put it.

Redus Redux
04-01-2009, 12:13 PM
Wise will be as bad as Cabrera, Erstad and Pods (post 2005) were for us in the past. They were not good at leading off.


This team will go as far as our middle of the order takes us along with the starting pitching. That's as easy as I can put it.

I feel like the contributions of Cabrera will be sorely missed. We wont realize how much he did for the team (even if he's not ideally a leadoff guy) until now when hes gone.

LoveYourSuit
04-01-2009, 12:49 PM
I feel like the contributions of Cabrera will be sorely missed. We wont realize how much he did for the team (even if he's not ideally a leadoff guy) until now when hes gone.

For all the positives he brought with the glove, intensity, etc .... I can list a good amount of negatives (attitude, selfish, not likeable, lot's of brain farts on the field) that will offset that.

The Sox are better with him not here just like they are w/out Swisher.

RichFitztightly
04-01-2009, 01:21 PM
Let me start out by saying I like Wise probably more than 90% of the board it seems. I wish he was lower in the order, but I think our top of the order needs so much help that I'll prioritize his capacity for getting hot over centerfield defense. Thats me.

But if we look at the reasons for this move being made, might we say that it is some kind of search for justice from KW's playing days, where the hard working guy (with mediocre talent by MLB standards) here has a chance to beat out some other people....

...and even though I dont think Brian is tons more talented, in an all-around way you'd say he is more talented. Yet still, Wise was spoken of highly all Spring by the decision-makers.

Ozzie praised Wise's spring pretty openly, whereas KW said Brian was off and on and then back to 2008 level. They were both off and on!



Anyway, does Wise as a cinderella story cloud the minds of perhaps KW and even Ozzie too?

I know what you're saying, and you have a point. I think, however, that you are underestimating how much of a factor Wise's speed made in the decision making process. Ozzie and KW want a lot of speed at the top of the order and Wise gives it to 'em.

I don't mind Wise, and I think he'll be fine. I believe he'll be better defensively than most people think. He won't be gold glove caliber, but he'll be solid. He'll hit fine, and hopefully in the clutch.

In conclusion, let's get the season started and see how it goes.

34 Inch Stick
04-01-2009, 01:41 PM
except Kenny was a highly talent first round pick who didn't realize his potential

Ranger
04-01-2009, 03:12 PM
Wise will be as bad as Cabrera, Erstad and Pods (post 2005) were for us in the past. They were not good at leading off.



I don't think you're clearly remembering last season. Cabrera hit .293 with on OBP of .341 when he hit leadoff last year. Nobody would consider that to be "bad".

If you're talking strictly about Cabrera leading off, you cannot say he was bad. The other stuff (especially attitude) has nothing to do with how he performed on the field as a leadoff hitter. That's not to say the team is better off with him, it's just that he did a pretty good job leading off.

BRDSR
04-01-2009, 03:25 PM
For all the positives he brought with the glove, intensity, etc .... I can list a good amount of negatives (attitude, selfish, not likeable, lot's of brain farts on the field) that will offset that.

The Sox are better with him not here just like they are w/out Swisher.

Your first three reasons are essentially the same single reason and were overplayed by the media.

I won't miss the brain farts on the field, but I think overall we're going to miss Cabrera. Essentially the difference is Getz instead of Cabrera; Getz will not have as productive a season for the White Sox this year.

TomBradley72
04-01-2009, 04:45 PM
Your first three reasons are essentially the same single reason and were overplayed by the media.

I won't miss the brain farts on the field, but I think overall we're going to miss Cabrera. Essentially the difference is Getz instead of Cabrera; Getz will not have as productive a season for the White Sox this year.

I don't agree with blaming the media, OC made his bed on that one. He was solid overall, and a reason we won the division, but I don't miss him this year.

BRDSR
04-01-2009, 09:32 PM
I don't agree with blaming the media, OC made his bed on that one. He was solid overall, and a reason we won the division, but I don't miss him this year.

Obviously Cabrera had played his own role in the saga, I just think the media made it out to be a bigger deal in the clubhouse than it actually was in the clubhouse.

RichFitztightly
04-01-2009, 09:34 PM
I don't think you're clearly remembering last season. Cabrera hit .293 with on OBP of .341 when he hit leadoff last year. Nobody would consider that to be "bad".

If you're talking strictly about Cabrera leading off, you cannot say he was bad. The other stuff (especially attitude) has nothing to do with how he performed on the field as a leadoff hitter. That's not to say the team is better off with him, it's just that he did a pretty good job leading off.

I'm glad you said it. I thought Cabrera was a very solid player between the lines. He did everything necessary at the plate, and fielded his spot well. Beyond that, well there's not much more that needs to be said.

russ99
04-01-2009, 10:05 PM
I'm glad you said it. I thought Cabrera was a very solid player between the lines. He did everything necessary at the plate, and fielded his spot well. Beyond that, well there's not much more that needs to be said.

I'm a big fan of OC, and thought he had a good overall year for us last season, but I also hope Getz has a good year and makes this discussion moot.

soxinem1
04-01-2009, 10:11 PM
except Kenny was a highly talent first round pick who didn't realize his potential

KW was actually a 3rd round pick who was an All-Rookie CF, then was moved to 3B, forced to play with a broken foot, and never came back.

So if anything he should know the dangers of making somebody something they aren't.........

LoveYourSuit
04-01-2009, 10:22 PM
I don't think you're clearly remembering last season. Cabrera hit .293 with on OBP of .341 when he hit leadoff last year. Nobody would consider that to be "bad".

If you're talking strictly about Cabrera leading off, you cannot say he was bad. The other stuff (especially attitude) has nothing to do with how he performed on the field as a leadoff hitter. That's not to say the team is better off with him, it's just that he did a pretty good job leading off.


Still as a leadoff, just my opinion, he was very average to below it. He made some very dumb baserunning mistakes and just running in general was something he left a lot to be desired. One of the slowest "little men" I have ever seen get off the box.

Let's also remember, Cabrera was plan C as lead off last year. Plan A was Owens (who got hurt in the Spring). Plan B was Swisher, an epic failure, Planc C was Cabrera.

I guess we will agree, for his limitations, he did a good job. But it kind of sucks that year after year we have to fall back on a plan C.

WHILEPITCH
04-02-2009, 11:59 AM
Still as a leadoff, just my opinion, he was very average to below it. He made some very dumb baserunning mistakes and just running in general was something he left a lot to be desired. One of the slowest "little men" I have ever seen get off the box.

Let's also remember, Cabrera was plan C as lead off last year. Plan A was Owens (who got hurt in the Spring). Plan B was Swisher, an epic failure, Planc C was Cabrera.

I guess we will agree, for his limitations, he did a good job. But it kind of sucks that year after year we have to fall back on a plan C.

Well he was a Plan C not because of hitting ability compared to those two, but because it was a last resort since he's so perfect as a #2 hitter.

He has control over his bat. The other two dont but had either speed or walk-drawing-ability to make them a hopeful shortcut as leadoff hitter. The shortcuts didnt work, so then they went to their Plan C, who was actually the only somewhat sure thing.

Ranger
04-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Still as a leadoff, just my opinion, he was very average to below it. He made some very dumb baserunning mistakes and just running in general was something he left a lot to be desired. One of the slowest "little men" I have ever seen get off the box.

Let's also remember, Cabrera was plan C as lead off last year. Plan A was Owens (who got hurt in the Spring). Plan B was Swisher, an epic failure, Planc C was Cabrera.

I guess we will agree, for his limitations, he did a good job. But it kind of sucks that year after year we have to fall back on a plan C.


I think whether or not he was Plan A or Plan Q, the fact is he did a pretty good job batting first. He was not excellent, but he was good. I'm not sure what "very" average means, but he was probably closer to better than average. I'm not sure how he could be assessed as "below average". Again, he wasn't Granderson, Ichiro, Sizemore, or Pedroia...but those guys are as good as it gets. I also do not agree with your assessment of his running.

I agree that he had a few too many brain cramps for my liking, but it wasn't because he had any more than any other player in his role. What was maddening about Cabrera's brain cramps was that you expect perfection from a player that was considered to be as selfish as he was here. Listen, if you're going to call out your teammates for their mistakes, carry an attitude that you were brought in to "fix" the clubhouse, and hold a general aura of perceived selfishness, you better not have brain cramps.

cards press box
04-03-2009, 07:00 PM
Let me start out by saying I like Wise probably more than 90% of the board it seems. I wish he was lower in the order, but I think our top of the order needs so much help that I'll prioritize his capacity for getting hot over centerfield defense. Thats me.

But if we look at the reasons for this move being made, might we say that it is some kind of search for justice from KW's playing days, where the hard working guy (with mediocre talent by MLB standards) here has a chance to beat out some other people....

...and even though I dont think Brian is tons more talented, in an all-around way you'd say he is more talented. Yet still, Wise was spoken of highly all Spring by the decision-makers.

Ozzie praised Wise's spring pretty openly, whereas KW said Brian was off and on and then back to 2008 level. They were both off and on!



Anyway, does Wise as a cinderella story cloud the minds of perhaps KW and even Ozzie too?


You want a comparable player to Dewayne Wise? How about Lou Johnson, the former Dodger outfielder who played for a series of teams in the early '60's and did not become a regular until 1965 with the L.A. Dodgers. That year, Johnson turned 31 -- the same age Wise is now.

For what it's worth, the '65 Dodgers won the World Series and Johnson hit the game winning home run off Jim Kaat in Game 7 at the Twins' old Metropolitan Stadium.