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getonbckthr
03-31-2009, 05:05 PM
I'm taking the Tiger thread and making more broad. I keep hearing people say there are 8-10 teams who if they dont jump out early trading will be immediate. I'm trying to think who these teams and players are (add anyone you think I left out):
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Tigers- Willis, Bonderman, Cabrera, Guillen, Inge, Verlander
Royals- Guillen, Meche,
Indians- Lee, Martinez
Sox- Thome, Konerko, Dye, Jenks, AJ, MAcdougal, Dotel
Twins- Delmon Young
Rays- Crawford, KAzmir, Percival
Jays- Halladay, Wells, Rolen
A's- Holliday
Rangers- Young, Blalock, Padilla,
Mariners- Bedard, Beltre
Astros- Lee, Tejada, Oswalt?
Cardinals- Ankiel, Glaus
Pirates- Wilson, Sanchez, Laroche
Reds- Harang, Aroyo
Marlins- Mcpherson, Uggla,
Nationals- Dunn, Willingham
Padres- Peavy
DOdgers- Pierre

Banix12
03-31-2009, 05:30 PM
Yeah, some teams might be having fire sales but honestly how many teams are going to be buying? especially since most of the players teams are going to try to unload are of the washed up/bad contract type.

The only players teams would be interested in a fire sale would be players still in their prime. And even then, with so many teams are hanging on to prospects these days i can't see a fire sale going on this time around like what the marlins did back in 97

getonbckthr
03-31-2009, 05:46 PM
That kind of what is scary though. Think of the teams that could afford to take on those contracts? The Yankees have soon to be expiring contracts in Damon and Matsui you know who would fit perfectly as their DH Miggy Cabrera. Hell they can say here Detroit here's Hughes, Kennedy and insert 3rd top prospect. Detroit might do it to get rid of the salary that the Yankees wouldn't be affected by. This has potential to really seperate big budget teams from the little simply because of economic standing.

whitesox901
03-31-2009, 05:46 PM
If we could get old Doc from Toronto, I would love it, too bad it would probably cost us Danks or Floyd

getonbckthr
03-31-2009, 05:53 PM
If we could get old Doc from Toronto, I would love it, too bad it would probably cost us Danks or Floyd
Much would depend on the market for him. Who knows maybe Getz shows alot and we pull off a Getz, Poreda and Marquez deal. Which would be potentially alot as far as our future rotation but better than Danks and/or Floyd.

johnnyg83
03-31-2009, 05:54 PM
IMHO: Doc for Danks or Floyd is a push.

Yes, Halladay is ahead of them developmentally ... but add in potential and contracts and I don't think I'd do it.

LoveYourSuit
03-31-2009, 06:28 PM
IMHO: Doc for Danks or Floyd is a push.

Yes, Halladay is ahead of them developmentally ... but add in potential and contracts and I don't think I'd do it.

:?:
Doc is no less than the 3rd best SP in baseball today.

Please tell me you are joking?

areilly
03-31-2009, 06:49 PM
IMHO: Doc for Danks or Floyd is a push.

Yes, Halladay is ahead of them developmentally ... but add in potential and contracts and I don't think I'd do it.

You can't be serious.


Can you?


No, no, you can't be serious.

GAsoxfan
03-31-2009, 07:50 PM
I'd give up Floyd, but not Danks. Roy is great, but he's also almost 32. I don't think he's enough of an upgrade over Danks to win a title in 2009, so I'd rather see Danks in a Sox uniform for the next ten years.

getonbckthr
03-31-2009, 08:18 PM
:?:
Doc is no less than the 3rd best SP in baseball today.

Please tell me you are joking?

You can't be serious.


Can you?


No, no, you can't be serious.
There isn't a chance in hell i'm sending both for Halladay. Also there is no chance i'm sending Danks straight up for Halladay. I might send Floyd but you better believe Toronto is sending some cash back.

tm1119
03-31-2009, 10:17 PM
There isn't a chance in hell i'm sending both for Halladay. Also there is no chance i'm sending Danks straight up for Halladay. I might send Floyd but you better believe Toronto is sending some cash back.

Come on man. At some point you have to put the bias aside and be realistic. I realize this is a White Sox message board and everything, but the homer comments can just get ridiculous at times. Halladay is easily a top 5 SP in the MLB. Neither Danks and especially not Floyd are even close to his league.

getonbckthr
03-31-2009, 10:23 PM
Come on man. At some point you have to put the bias aside and be realistic. I realize this is a White Sox message board and everything, but the homer comments can just get ridiculous at times. Halladay is easily a top 5 SP in the MLB. Neither Danks and especially not Floyd are even close to his league.
When factor in age and contract status and state of our team financial flexibility you better believe they are near his league. I'm sorry the minimal gain from Halladay isnt worth the financial ramifications.

JermaineDye05
03-31-2009, 10:59 PM
This may just be the Jake Peavy fan inside of me who doesn't want to see him on the northside saying this, but I still have a gut feeling that he won't be leaving the Padres this year or next. Now that Trevor Hoffman is gone, it's basically just Peavy the Padres have to bring fans into the ballpark. Adrian Gonzalez is another player however not as well known as Peavy.

palehozenychicty
04-01-2009, 12:22 AM
Come on man. At some point you have to put the bias aside and be realistic. I realize this is a White Sox message board and everything, but the homer comments can just get ridiculous at times. Halladay is easily a top 5 SP in the MLB. Neither Danks and especially not Floyd are even close to his league.


And you wonder why it took the White Sox 88 years to win a World Series. It's been poor ownership and lack of truly great players, aside from Big Frank and Shoeless Joe. Those guys transcended their sport at times. If Halladay played in the States, he'd get even more reverence. If Halladay is offered and Floyd is part of a package, you'd have to do it. I seriously doubt that Floyd will contend for a Cy Young award in his career. He could prove me wrong and reach that level. But I don't think so. Danks as well could become a perennial All-Star pitcher. I'm not sure he's a Cy Young winner, though. Halladay is not on an insane deal like A-Rod. It wouldn't cripple the franchise. Sure, the market is different now with youth having more value. Nevertheless, guys like Halladay win you championships.

tm1119
04-01-2009, 12:30 AM
When factor in age and contract status and state of our team financial flexibility you better believe they are near his league. I'm sorry the minimal gain from Halladay isnt worth the financial ramifications.

I understand what you are saying and everything, but theres exceptions to the rules of trading young players, and Halladay is one of those guys you make the exception for. Hes a special talent that very few in the world rival. Not to mention his contract is really quite a bargin considering his talent level, even though it does run out after 2010.

Also, I am positive that it would take more than Danks to get Halladay.

palehozenychicty
04-01-2009, 12:35 AM
I understand what you are saying and everything, but theres exceptions to the rules of trading young players, and Halladay is one of those guys you make the exception for. Hes a special talent that very few in the world rival. Not to mention his contract is really quite a bargin considering his talent level, even though it does run out after 2010.

Also, I am positive that it would take more than Danks to get Halladay.


Exactly. For a franchise that values starting pitching, he'd be the perfect fit on top of the rotation. He'd bring our staff a level of swagger with his nasty sliders. Those intangibles matter, and can pay dividends in the end.

Shoeless_Jeff
04-01-2009, 01:37 AM
Doc might just be the best pitcher in the AL. He wouldn't come cheap and rightfully so. Having him on the White Sox would give us a true ace starting pitcher.

Going to a different team would definitely be good for Holladay's career. If he pitched for NYY or BOS or that other team in Chicago, we'd have him shoved down our throats 24/7 by ESPN. Since he's in Toronto most people never hear about him.

What is it that the Jays need that they are looking for? (edit) besides everything?

tm1119
04-01-2009, 02:04 AM
Doc might just be the best pitcher in the AL. He wouldn't come cheap and rightfully so. Having him on the White Sox would give us a true ace starting pitcher.

Going to a different team would definitely be good for Holladay's career. If he pitched for NYY or BOS or that other team in Chicago, we'd have him shoved down our throats 24/7 by ESPN. Since he's in Toronto most people never hear about him.

What is it that the Jays need that they are looking for? (edit) besides everything?

Im sure the discussion for Halladay would start with Beckham and keep going from there. Probably Poreda would be in the deal as well. Boston had to give up Hanley and Anibal Sanchez for Beckett a few years ago. I'm sure the haul for Halladay would be similar to that.
With that said, I would not do that deal. Our team is not close enough to a championship in my opinion to warrant giving up our future for 1 player.

areilly
04-01-2009, 11:12 AM
If Halladay is offered and Floyd is part of a package, you'd have to do it. I seriously doubt that Floyd will contend for a Cy Young award in his career. He could prove me wrong and reach that level. But I don't think so. Danks as well could become a perennial All-Star pitcher. I'm not sure he's a Cy Young winner, though.

I think you nailed it on the head here: Danks and Floyd could become elite pitchers. Halladay is an elite pitcher in his prime. If your team wants to win now and can trade the former for the latter, you do it in a heartbeat.

jabrch
04-01-2009, 11:31 AM
Im sure the discussion for Halladay would start with Beckham and keep going from there. Probably Poreda would be in the deal as well. Boston had to give up Hanley and Anibal Sanchez for Beckett a few years ago. I'm sure the haul for Halladay would be similar to that.
With that said, I would not do that deal. Our team is not close enough to a championship in my opinion to warrant giving up our future for 1 player.


If we were right in the thick of things in July, and either Colon or Contreras weren't cutting it, and the cost would be Beckham and Poreda, I'd do it. I probably wouldn't do it if we were being asked to give up Danks or Floyd - since we'd still have a weak 4th/5th starter and we'd just be taking on the huge difference in the expense.

That said, I'd be surprised if the Jays let him go. He's their horse - and has a reasonable 15mm tag next year before being a FA. They are really going to regret the Vernon Wells contract. Full No-Trade protection, and 89mm for 2011 - 2014 + 21mm (including deferred bonus) in 2010. The Alex Rios deal isn't much better.... How much longer will Ricciardi get? His deal (and Gaston's) end after 2010. I know it is tough to compete in the AL East - and I can't say he's done a poor job - but with a payroll of nearly 100mm last year and this year, I'm sure ownership expects more than he has delivered.

thedudeabides
04-01-2009, 11:41 AM
Im sure the discussion for Halladay would start with Beckham and keep going from there. Probably Poreda would be in the deal as well. Boston had to give up Hanley and Anibal Sanchez for Beckett a few years ago. I'm sure the haul for Halladay would be similar to that.
With that said, I would not do that deal. Our team is not close enough to a championship in my opinion to warrant giving up our future for 1 player.

Well put. I don't think I would do it either, unless at some point during this season the Sox think they are that close to winning the World Series, and they are willing to give him a contract extension.

LoveYourSuit
04-01-2009, 06:14 PM
There isn't a chance in hell i'm sending both for Halladay. Also there is no chance i'm sending Danks straight up for Halladay. I might send Floyd but you better believe Toronto is sending some cash back.

The OP did not mention that both would go on the deal for him.

Either one for him is roberry by the Sox based on today's and next year's production.

I realize that we all love good youth, but Doc is at his prime right now.

Or is he washed up like Clemens was in 1997?

35th and Shields
04-01-2009, 07:30 PM
If we were right in the thick of things in July, and either Colon or Contreras weren't cutting it, and the cost would be Beckham and Poreda, I'd do it. I probably wouldn't do it if we were being asked to give up Danks or Floyd - since we'd still have a weak 4th/5th starter and we'd just be taking on the huge difference in the expense.

That said, I'd be surprised if the Jays let him go. He's their horse - and has a reasonable 15mm tag next year before being a FA. They are really going to regret the Vernon Wells contract. Full No-Trade protection, and 89mm for 2011 - 2014 + 21mm (including deferred bonus) in 2010. The Alex Rios deal isn't much better.... How much longer will Ricciardi get? His deal (and Gaston's) end after 2010. I know it is tough to compete in the AL East - and I can't say he's done a poor job - but with a payroll of nearly 100mm last year and this year, I'm sure ownership expects more than he has delivered.

Exactly. Also looking at the current White Sox organization it's obvious that as much as the sox want to win now, the team's core players are not in their prime and I don't see Williams abandoning everything he's done to build this team to the dominant force that I think it could be a couple years.

This team's window to win is not closing, but rather just beginning to open. Halladay would be a great addition to this team and if it costs danks and then along the lines of beckham and poreda...etc it would obviously help the team now but I see this current group of core guys having more potential to win a year or two down the road then by adding Halladay this year to a team that's in a youth movement, or as KW's calls it "rebuilding on the fly"

getonbckthr
04-01-2009, 07:46 PM
The OP did not mention that both would go on the deal for him.

Either one for him is roberry by the Sox based on today's and next year's production.

I realize that we all love good youth, but Doc is at his prime right now.

Or is he washed up like Clemens was in 1997?
With the news released in the past 18 months about Clemens one would believe he was washed up just had some help covering it up.

russ99
04-01-2009, 11:15 PM
I think the A's will deal Holliday at the deadline unless they're leading the division. But that could very well happen...

I also wonder if the Yankees may ditch some payroll if things don't go well, and if they're having trouble filling the new park due to poor play, the excessive ticket prices and the state of the economy.

Probably won't happen, but I'd think even those deep pockets need to have some kind of a budget this year with the economy.

Also, as far as the Astros are concerned: Lee, Berkman and Oswalt all have full NTC's and want to stay so I doubt they're dealt, even if the team tanks. The only way I see them leaving is if they're somehow not treated well...

Foulke You
04-05-2009, 02:16 AM
Back to the original topic of the thread:

A's GM Billy Beane has shown that he is always ready to bail out on any veteran player when things start to go a bit south. I figure Orlando Cabrera, Matt Holliday, Jason Giambi, and Nomar would all likely be trade bait if the A's start to fall far behind the Angels.

goofymsfan
04-05-2009, 02:41 AM
I can easily see the M's trading Beltre at the deadline, especially if Matt Tuiasosopo is performing well down at AAA Tacoma. He's opened some eyes during spring training. Beltre is a free agent at the end of the year and is a client of Boras. These two things make it likely that he will be gone before the end of the season unless by some miracle the M's are in the thick of it. (Even a die-hard M's fan like me, knows that possibility isn't worth holding your breath over).

Bedard, unless they get a great deal in return for him, I see remaining with the M's. They gave up way too much to get him in the first place and I think management will want to get at least a little bang for their buck.

palehozenychicty
04-06-2009, 01:39 AM
I can easily see the M's trading Beltre at the deadline, especially if Matt Tuiasosopo is performing well down at AAA Tacoma. He's opened some eyes during spring training. Beltre is a free agent at the end of the year and is a client of Boras. These two things make it likely that he will be gone before the end of the season unless by some miracle the M's are in the thick of it. (Even a die-hard M's fan like me, knows that possibility isn't worth holding your breath over).

Bedard, unless they get a great deal in return for him, I see remaining with the M's. They gave up way too much to get him in the first place and I think management will want to get at least a little bang for their buck.


He's actually an interesting player if he throws well and stays upright. They may be able to pawn him off for some of those lost picks.

goofymsfan
04-06-2009, 06:30 AM
He's actually an interesting player if he throws well and stays upright. They may be able to pawn him off for some of those lost picks.

We can only hope! After his performance last season, many M's fans were not happy. I was one of them as I was against a 5 for 1 trade from the get go, nevermind the fact they traded 2 of my favorite former Tacoma Rainier players (Adam Jones and George Sherrill). It just seemed like too much to give up for a player that was injuried the previous year.