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View Full Version : Fun little ESPN Preview:


getonbckthr
03-30-2009, 05:42 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4025962
Looks like STark loves Alexei and Getz. Not so much Big Bobby. I think Beckham got shafted in his category.

JermaineDye05
03-30-2009, 05:51 PM
The one that intrigued me the most was his quote regarding John Danks and Zack Greinke.

COPYRIGHTED TEXT

Marqhead
03-30-2009, 06:21 PM
Didn't I read somewhere that Bobby lost some weight this spring?

EnglishChiSox
03-30-2009, 06:54 PM
Didn't I read somewhere that Bobby lost some weight this spring?

He's still going to be heavily built whatever.

As long as Alexei doesn't develop an absurd stutter step when catching the ball there are some fair lists there.

everafan
03-30-2009, 09:09 PM
I think Stark just doesn't like fatties - he had no performance related comments on Jenks.

munchman33
03-31-2009, 10:39 AM
I think Stark just doesn't like fatties - he had no performance related comments on Jenks.

Yes, but they are there to make. Declining k rate and all...

Foulke You
03-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Yes, but they are there to make. Declining k rate and all...
I think the declining k rate has more to do with the fact that Bobby has become a pitcher rather than a thrower. He has full command of his secondary pitches now which is something he didn't have when he broke in with us in 2005. Bobby can locate a solid fastball in the low 90s and then buckle their knees with the slider. He also features a decent change. He is pitching more to contact these days but he gets results and that is all a closer should be measured by.

munchman33
03-31-2009, 05:41 PM
I think the declining k rate has more to do with the fact that Bobby has become a pitcher rather than a thrower. He has full command of his secondary pitches now which is something he didn't have when he broke in with us in 2005. Bobby can locate a solid fastball in the low 90s and then buckle their knees with the slider. He also features a decent change. He is pitching more to contact these days but he gets results and that is all a closer should be measured by.

I know that's the company line on the issue. And I'd like to believe it. But history paints a different picture for people who trend the way he does.

Boondock Saint
03-31-2009, 06:56 PM
I know that's the company line on the issue. And I'd like to believe it. But history paints a different picture for people who trend the way he does.

It's more than just the "Company line". His ERA last year was the lowest of his career, his walks are down, and his WHIP was just barely over 1. He did a fantastic job, and there's really nothing to suggest that he'll start declining.

BleacherBandit
03-31-2009, 07:27 PM
I love Stark's comments about Adam Jones.

"If we had $1,000 for every scout who raves about his scary tools, we could buy the Orioles."

munchman33
03-31-2009, 09:09 PM
It's more than just the "Company line". His ERA last year was the lowest of his career, his walks are down, and his WHIP was just barely over 1. He did a fantastic job, and there's really nothing to suggest that he'll start declining.

Find me an example in baseball history of a guy's K rate falling as much as Bobby's has where the guy doesn't completely fall off a cliff. I'm willing to hear it out. But his k rate is about half of what it used to be, his fastball doesn't have the same life it did, he's had back issues, and now relies on pinpoint control for as much contact as he creates (which was amongst the highest for relievers in baseball last year).

Boondock Saint
03-31-2009, 09:34 PM
Find me an example in baseball history of a guy's K rate falling as much as Bobby's has where the guy doesn't completely fall off a cliff. I'm willing to hear it out. But his k rate is about half of what it used to be, his fastball doesn't have the same life it did, he's had back issues, and now relies on pinpoint control for as much contact as he creates (which was amongst the highest for relievers in baseball last year).

What you're failing to realize is that Bobby's stats improved with the K rate/velocity drop. I wouldn't doubt that these other pitchers you're talking about (I don't know who you might be comparing Bobby to) have had their stats decline as a result of the drop in K rate or velocity. I don't know about these other pitchers, but every indication shows that the velocity drop and pitching to contact is intentional.

Frater Perdurabo
03-31-2009, 09:43 PM
Bobby just needs to avoid pitching against the Orioles. :o:

rdivaldi
03-31-2009, 09:46 PM
Find me an example in baseball history of a guy's K rate falling as much as Bobby's has where the guy doesn't completely fall off a cliff..

A certain reliever:

Age 26: 10.9 K/9
Age 27: 8.5 K/9
Age 28: 5.3 K/9

Care to guess who this mystery man is?

getonbckthr
03-31-2009, 09:56 PM
a certain reliever:

Age 26: 10.9 k/9
age 27: 8.5 k/9
age 28: 5.3 k/9

care to guess who this mystery man is?
k-rod?

rdivaldi
03-31-2009, 11:01 PM
k-rod?

Think better...

:smile:

eriqjaffe
03-31-2009, 11:13 PM
Think better...

:smile:Mariano Rivera!

rdivaldi
03-31-2009, 11:21 PM
Mariano Rivera!

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

For reference:

Age 26: 10.9 K/9
Age 27: 8.5
Age 28: 5.3
Age 29: 6.8
Age 30: 6.9
Age 31: 9.3
Age 32: 8.0
Age 33: 8.0
Age 34: 7.6
Age 35: 9.2
Age 36: 6.6
Age 37: 9.3
Age 38: 9.8

rdivaldi
03-31-2009, 11:26 PM
Also, if you want to reference Bobby's apparent switch to pitching instead of throwing, here are some telling numbers:

Pitches per plate appearance:
2005: 3.86
2006: 3.57
2007: 3.48
2008: 3.36

Pitches per inning pitched:
2005: 16.5
2006: 15.4
2007: 13.3
2008: 13.2

cws05champ
04-01-2009, 07:43 AM
Also, if you want to reference Bobby's apparent switch to pitching instead of throwing, here are some telling numbers:

Pitches per plate appearance:
2005: 3.86
2006: 3.57
2007: 3.48
2008: 3.36

Pitches per inning pitched:
2005: 16.5
2006: 15.4
2007: 13.3
2008: 13.2
These are some good numbers...frankly I'm getting rather tired of the perception that Jenks stuff is decreasing because his K rate has gone down. It has ben pointed out by several writers and has been perpetuated in the blogosphere.
If people actually watch him pitch they would see that he can still dial it up to 98-99 when he needs/wants to. But now that he can throw 4 pitches he doesn't have to.

munchman33
04-01-2009, 08:39 AM
A certain reliever:

Age 26: 10.9 K/9
Age 27: 8.5 K/9
Age 28: 5.3 K/9

Care to guess who this mystery man is?

Okay, that's a good example.

But:

1. Did Rivera also see a decline in velocity?
2. Rivera immediately reverted back to himself the next year.
3. Bobby's stuff isn't as good as Rivera's was then.

munchman33
04-01-2009, 08:41 AM
Also, if you want to reference Bobby's apparent switch to pitching instead of throwing, here are some telling numbers:

Pitches per plate appearance:
2005: 3.86
2006: 3.57
2007: 3.48
2008: 3.36

Pitches per inning pitched:
2005: 16.5
2006: 15.4
2007: 13.3
2008: 13.2

Why is the assumption he's becoming more efficient? I look at that and my first thought is his stuff is steadily becoming easier to put into play.

Iwritecode
04-01-2009, 09:54 AM
Why is the assumption he's becoming more efficient? I look at that and my first thought is his stuff is steadily becoming easier to put into play.

WHIP

2005: 1.246
2006: 1.392
2007: 0.892
2008: 1.103

It doesn't look like he's allowing too many baserunners. I would say that guys are making more contact against him but he's still getting outs.

asindc
04-01-2009, 10:11 AM
Why is the assumption he's becoming more efficient? I look at that and my first thought is his stuff is steadily becoming easier to put into play.

It is more than an assumption, Munchman. Jenks is throwing fewer pitches to get better results. If that is not increased efficiency, then what is?

You might have noticed in last year's Blackout game, Jenks had his fastball popping in at 98-99. He can still dial it up when he wants to. That fact that he can still do that but gets better results by dialing it down should be ample evidence that it is more than company line.

nitetrain8601
04-01-2009, 02:25 PM
WHIP

2005: 1.246
2006: 1.392
2007: 0.892
2008: 1.103

It doesn't look like he's allowing too many baserunners. I would say that guys are making more contact against him but he's still getting outs.

I don't know. Last year, he seemed to make a lot of 9th innings interesting by putting the tying runner aboard. Mariano didn't experience a drop in velocity like Bobby has. There are times when Bobby will throw 92-94mph. That's pretty bad considering he was at around 100mph when he first came up IMHO. And he was much more devastating IMHO when he was throwing 100mph when he was on. He was at his best in 2006 though when he both the speed and some control.