PDA

View Full Version : Orlando Cabrera Defends His Year in Chicago


soltrain21
03-27-2009, 01:45 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/26/SP7316NGPB.DTL&feed=rss.athletics


I agree with him for the most part, it was blown quite out of proportion.

longtimesoxguy
03-27-2009, 01:50 PM
He has nothing to defend. He played his ass off for us. I don't understand the problem fans have with him. I wish he was still with us this year. We would be a better team with him leading off. I hope Getz proves me wrong but OC is a very good player!!!!!!!!!

oeo
03-27-2009, 01:54 PM
He has nothing to defend. He played his ass off for us. I don't understand the problem fans have with him. I wish he was still with us this year. We would be a better team with him leading off. I hope Getz proves me wrong but OC is a very good player!!!!!!!!!

Cabrera had a solid year with us, and I'll never get why everyone hated him. However, we're better off not having him lead off. He's not patient enough to be a good lead off guy. I mean, I'd take him over Anderson/Wise/Owens, but that's not saying a whole lot.

longtimesoxguy
03-27-2009, 01:59 PM
Cabrera had a solid year with us, and I'll never get why everyone hated him. However, we're better off not having him lead off. He's not patient enough to be a good lead off guy. I mean, I'd take him over Anderson/Wise/Owens, but that's not saying a whole lot.

But that's who we have!!! I feel the same as you.

Chez
03-27-2009, 01:59 PM
Probably our most reliable player down the stretch last season.

Red Barchetta
03-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Cabrera had a solid year with us, and I'll never get why everyone hated him. However, we're better off not having him lead off. He's not patient enough to be a good lead off guy. I mean, I'd take him over Anderson/Wise/Owens, but that's not saying a whole lot.

You're right, he did have a solid year for us. However, similar to Albert Belle, it's not his performance stats, rather his team and/or clubhouse presence that I think wore out his welcome in Chicago. Calling up the official scorer and asking him to change an error to a hit probably didn't help win any brownie points with his pitching staff.

kittle42
03-27-2009, 02:01 PM
He called up to the booth once.

Waaaaahhhh! He doesn't care about anything but himself! Waaaaahhhhh! Chicago Tough! Waaaaahhhhhh! Grinder-Town! Waaaahhhhh!

Chicago sports fans: We'll accept losing if you "play the game right."

This has always annoyed me.

whitesox901
03-27-2009, 02:06 PM
"wright message, wrong messenger"

Dibbs
03-27-2009, 02:11 PM
I wish we had him back too. I can't believe the tone of this thread all of a sudden. It has been nothing but negative until now.

getonbckthr
03-27-2009, 02:12 PM
When the deal was 1st made I liked it. I felt we were strong enough in the rotation and the addition of Cabrera would be a positive. However unlike how Swisher and Alexei and Linebrink just seemed to feel like they were on the team not only physically but mentally and whole heartedly I never got that vibe from Cabrera. I always felt he didn't want to be here. My feeling is if you don't want to be here I don't want you here.

spawn
03-27-2009, 02:16 PM
I never understood the hatred for him here. The guy came in and did what he was asked. He played his ass off, and without his contributions down the stretch, this team doesn't make the playoffs.

Jim Shorts
03-27-2009, 02:16 PM
Because he tugged on Jermaine Dye's cape?

mantis1212
03-27-2009, 02:24 PM
I'm in the camp that just didn't like the guy's attitude. Don't get me wrong, performance on the field can trump those problems in my book any day, but the fact is he's an OVERRATED shortstop.

His Gold Glove is further proof that the Gold Glove award is a sham. Juan Uribe is a far superior defensive shortstop than Orlando Cabera.

Marqhead
03-27-2009, 02:43 PM
I always liked him :shrug:

thedudeabides
03-27-2009, 03:13 PM
He seems to be defending an awful lot in the article. Personally, I'm glad he's gone. I didn't like him at all. He was a decent hitter, with an overrated glove. When you have incidents with the coahing staff, players, and the media, there's usually a problem. He's on his fifth team right now. Boston won the world series with him and wanted nothing to do with bringing him back. There wasn't a whole lot of nice things to say about him there.

That said, he did play hard and the Sox wouldn't have won the division without him.

But, farewell and enjoy your time in Oakland. It'll probably only be for a year anyway, and then you can go cry to your sixth town about the raw deal you got.

Konerko05
03-27-2009, 03:19 PM
I don't have a problem with Cabrera. He played his ass off down the stretch when the rest of the team looked dead. His comments actually might have been spot on. Although, his comments probably did more harm than good. I thought it was obvious he wasn't liked by the majority of the players.

If he wanted to be vocal, he should've been vocal all year. Deciding to run his mouth his mouth to the media after 150 games of personal problems with players is not a wise move.

I can see why some fans didn't like the guys attitude. I can also see how some fans might take the side of players who have been with the Sox for a longer time period. Fans tend to "get to know" players on a more personal level the longer they are with a team.

In the end though, Cabrera helped the Sox win a division title. I'm pretty sure almost all of the players and fans are appreciative for that.

Frater Perdurabo
03-27-2009, 03:34 PM
He called up to the booth once.

We are aware of one time. There may have been more. I understood that he had a history of doing that with other teams.

Perhaps there is a reason that he's bounced around from team to team despite his decent offensive production and glovework - it seems that he wears out his welcome wherever he goes.

If he had accepted the Sox' offer of arbitration, he'd be making a lot more money than he's worth in this market, and thus keeping a better defensive shortstop (Alexei) from playing shortstop.

I'm glad he declined arbitration.

JermaineDye05
03-27-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm in the camp that just didn't like the guy's attitude. Don't get me wrong, performance on the field can trump those problems in my book any day, but the fact is he's an OVERRATED shortstop.

His Gold Glove is further proof that the Gold Glove award is a sham. Juan Uribe is a far superior defensive shortstop than Orlando Cabera.

I have to disagree. Cabrera had an off year defensively. I believe he still lead the league in FP. Have you ever seen Juan Uribe turn a double play with his bare hand? That was one of the best plays I'd seen from a shortstop in a while.

mantis1212
03-27-2009, 04:03 PM
I have to disagree. Cabrera had an off year defensively. I believe he still lead the league in FP. Have you ever seen Juan Uribe turn a double play with his bare hand? That was one of the best plays I'd seen from a shortstop in a while.

Thanks to the phone calls.

Kidding aside, fielding % is only one piece of the puzzle. Which particular barehand play are you talking about?

Frater Perdurabo
03-27-2009, 04:04 PM
I have to disagree. Cabrera had an off year defensively. I believe he still lead the league in FP. Have you ever seen Juan Uribe turn a double play with his bare hand? That was one of the best plays I'd seen from a shortstop in a while.

The Sox used to have a guy who was one of the all time greats for fielding percentage. I think some people called him "The Choice." Paul Konerko really liked him. His name was Royce Clayton.

My point is that fielding percentage means very little if your range is limited and/or if you don't even try to make the tough plays. Uribe, Guillen and even Valentin had more range and a better arms than Cabrera. Frankly, among the Sox full-time shortstops I personally have seen play, I would put Cabrera right in the middle defensively. He's better than Caruso and Fletcher and Clayton, but worse than Uribe, Guillen and Valentin.

CashMan
03-27-2009, 04:10 PM
I would put Cabrera right in the middle defensively. He's better than Caruso and Fletcher and Clayton, but worse than Uribe, Guillen and Valentin.



Valentin? The guy made like an error every other game it seemed like.

Frater Perdurabo
03-27-2009, 04:22 PM
Valentin? The guy made like an error every other game it seemed like.

Yes, and that meant his fielding percentage was not as high.

But he had a lot more range than Cabrera, which meant that he made more plays and tried to make more tough plays. He actually made many of those tough plays that Cabrera never would have even tried to make. But it's also more likely to make an error on a tough play than a routine play, which is why Valentin had more errors.

Thome25
03-27-2009, 04:27 PM
Cabrera had a solid year with us, and I'll never get why everyone hated him. However, we're better off not having him lead off. He's not patient enough to be a good lead off guy. I mean, I'd take him over Anderson/Wise/Owens, but that's not saying a whole lot.

He was hated because (if it was true or not I don't know.) he came off as a guy who cared more about his personal stats than his teammates and complained because the coaching staff wasn't backing up his quest for perfect defensive stats.

This doesn't go over well in a blue collar town and a blue collar fanbase that values working hard and wins and losses more than personal numbers.

Cabrera came off as selfish and was a pudwack IMO.

It's Dankerific
03-27-2009, 04:27 PM
I don't have much respect for a guy who can't get along with Jermaine Dye.

soxfandoug
03-27-2009, 04:28 PM
I agree, I think Uribe and Valentin are the two best defensive shortstops the Sox have had during my fandom (since about 1990).

Thome25
03-27-2009, 04:30 PM
I don't have much respect for a guy who can't get along with Jermaine Dye.

That's another thing that made him wear out his welcome here.

salty99
03-27-2009, 04:36 PM
Good riddance.

JermaineDye05
03-27-2009, 05:07 PM
Thanks to the phone calls.

Kidding aside, fielding % is only one piece of the puzzle. Which particular barehand play are you talking about?

It was during the game that TCQ broke his wrist. Bottom of the third.

Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200809013403176&c_id=cws)

white sox bill
03-27-2009, 05:24 PM
Yes, and that meant his fielding percentage was not as high.

But he had a lot more range than Cabrera, which meant that he made more plays and tried to make more tough plays. He actually made many of those tough plays that Cabrera never would have even tried to make. But it's also more likely to make an error on a tough play than a routine play, which is why Valentin had more errors.

Jose had great range, too great for his own good. There was a 50/50 chance the ball went into Konerko's or the guy seated in Row 2, seat 10.

doublem23
03-27-2009, 05:27 PM
It was during the game that TCQ broke his wrist. Bottom of the third.

Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200809013403176&c_id=cws)

While that's a great play and all, it also highlights why these "defensive gems" are sometimes misleading... It's hard to tell if that ball just took a bad hop on OC, but if not he only made that barehanded beauty because he so horrendously misplayed it. Had he played the ball correctly, it would have been a ho-hum, regular old double play.

Like I said, I can't tell if that ball took a bad hop, in which case, that's a tremendous play and I'll take back my criticism.

everafan
03-27-2009, 10:27 PM
He's a douche bag and there's a reason he never stuck with any team despite being a good player

tm1119
03-27-2009, 11:20 PM
All this talk that Uribe and Valentin are better defensive SS than OC needs to stop now, because it really could not be any further from the truth. OC has a reputation as 1 of the best defensive SS for a reason. And also he hasnt actually bounced from team to team either. We were his 4th team in 11 years. And 1 of those teams was Boston for 1/2 a year as a part of a dealine deal in 05. Other than that he was with Montreal for 7 years and LA for 3. Doesnt really sound like hes been kicked out of too many places to me.

cnw8052
03-28-2009, 12:58 AM
Hmm. I think Uribe was lightyears ahead of both OC and Valentin.



All this talk that Uribe and Valentin are better defensive SS than OC needs to stop now, because it really could not be any further from the truth. OC has a reputation as 1 of the best defensive SS for a reason. And also he hasnt actually bounced from team to team either. We were his 4th team in 11 years. And 1 of those teams was Boston for 1/2 a year as a part of a dealine deal in 05. Other than that he was with Montreal for 7 years and LA for 3. Doesnt really sound like hes been kicked out of too many places to me.

Frontman
03-28-2009, 08:14 AM
I would of liked to have kept him; but I also see how he wore out his welcome with both team and fans. He could have an attitude if his defense at SS was like Ripken or Smith in their prime. I can put up with a bit of a prima donna attitude when the player is above and beyond average.

I can't stand it when its just slightly better than a AAA SS. And I said it last season a number of times; Uribe was a far better SS and Cabrera. With Juan, I knew it was profundo or nothing at the plate; but what Orlando did better at the plate didn't equal at least to me, the downgrade of the defense by having Cabrera instead of Uribe there.

And one other thing; why is it that these players (and the reporters who interview them) feel the complusive need to do these 'exit interviews' anyways? Later OC; do let the door hit you where the Good Lord split ya.

And pass word onto DeRosa, Hunter, and Rowand too. Don't want to hear from any of them again.

Frater Perdurabo
03-28-2009, 08:22 AM
OC has a reputation as 1 of the best defensive SS for a reason.

Jeter has that reputation, too. It doesn't change the fact that the Yankees' best defensive shortstop plays third base. Even Michael Young won a gold glove. So why did the Rangers just move him to third base? Because Young does not have much range at short (when he gets the ball, he handles it well, but he does not get to many balls), and because they have a better defensive shortstop coming up (Elvis Andrus). And if Andrus flames out, they have the fossilized Omar Vizquel, who at 42 years old is better defensively than the gold glove-winning Young.

"Reputation" does not make someone a great defensive shortstop.

TornLabrum
03-28-2009, 08:38 AM
"Reputation" does not make someone a great defensive shortstop.

This is a lesson Sox fans should have learned with Royce "Ole" Clayton.

Frater Perdurabo
03-28-2009, 08:47 AM
This is a lesson Sox fans should have learned with Royce "Ole" Clayton.

"The Choice" was good enough for Paul Konerko, so he's good enough for many Sox fans. I wonder what will be said about Cabrera? Maybe Paulie (and thus some Sox fans) will nominate him for HOF consideration?
:rolleyes:

southside rocks
03-28-2009, 11:19 AM
He called up to the booth once.

Waaaaahhhh! He doesn't care about anything but himself! Waaaaahhhhh! Chicago Tough! Waaaaahhhhhh! Grinder-Town! Waaaahhhhh!

Chicago sports fans: We'll accept losing if you "play the game right."

This has always annoyed me.

From what I read, he called the scorer's booth in more than one game; by the time this article was written in May 2008, he had made those calls in two games.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3415430

I have also read that OC was not popular in his former places of employment, for reasons that had more to do with his personality and demeanor in the clubhouse and among team members, than with his on-field performance.

Probably nobody posting here knows what actually went on between OC and Sox personnel last season.

Former NBA star Bill Bradley was on Bill Maher last night, and Maher asked Bradley why the Knicks suck so much now, to which Bradley replied 'Probably because they draft stats rather than character.'

Similar point to be made here: the evaluation of OC, or any other player, is not one that is made solely on stats. Or it's not outside of fantasy baseball, anyway.

DrCrawdad
03-28-2009, 11:24 AM
Maybe Orlando won't admit it, but he's got to be ticked off that he lost so much money by turning down arbitration.

If Getz gets the job done at 2nd and can step up to be the lead-off hitter, we'll forget "the O.C."