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View Full Version : Tigers NEED to get a fast start to avoid firesale.


JermaineDye05
03-26-2009, 12:56 PM
Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4017022&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4017022%26name%3dolne y_buster)

It's an insider article which I can't view however it interests me much. Buster Olney talks about the economy and how Detroits season last year dropped ticket sales dramatically. One of the phrases I noticed while viewing the article, which said:

The Tigers are an example of a team who need a fast start to avoid an early fire sale. Plus spring training news, notes and links for all 30 teams.

fire sale was of course what stood out to me. Could we possibly see the Tigers unloading Miguel Cabrera if they get off to another bad start this season? That would seriously be an interesting turn of events considering they were picked to win the WS last year after acquiring Cabrera and they could be forced to trade him just over a year later

mrfourni
03-26-2009, 01:00 PM
Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4017022&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4017022%26name%3dolne y_buster)

It's an insider article which I can't view however it interests me much. Buster Olney talks about the economy and how Detroits season last year dropped ticket sales dramatically. One of the phrases I noticed while viewing the article, which said:



fire sale was of course what stood out to me. Could we possibly see the Tigers unloading Miguel Cabrera if they get off to another bad start this season? That would seriously be an interesting turn of events considering they were picked to win the WS last year after acquiring Cabrera and they could be forced to trade him just over a year later

With that bullpen, I think the firesale is a foregone conclusion.

oeo
03-26-2009, 01:02 PM
Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4017022&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4017022%26name%3dolne y_buster)

It's an insider article which I can't view however it interests me much. Buster Olney talks about the economy and how Detroits season last year dropped ticket sales dramatically. One of the phrases I noticed while viewing the article, which said:



fire sale was of course what stood out to me. Could we possibly see the Tigers unloading Miguel Cabrera if they get off to another bad start this season? That would seriously be an interesting turn of events considering they were picked to win the WS last year after acquiring Cabrera and they could be forced to trade him just over a year later

Cabrera, Verlander, and Granderson are not going anywhere. I'd say everyone else is probably fair game...of course depending on what is offered for some cases like Galarraga, for example.

Looking at their roster, that team is just not very impressive. Dombrowski continues to ignore their pitching problems that have plagued them the last two years.

champagne030
03-26-2009, 01:20 PM
Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4017022&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4017022%26name%3dolne y_buster)

It's an insider article which I can't view however it interests me much. Buster Olney talks about the economy and how Detroits season last year dropped ticket sales dramatically. One of the phrases I noticed while viewing the article, which said:



fire sale was of course what stood out to me. Could we possibly see the Tigers unloading Miguel Cabrera if they get off to another bad start this season? That would seriously be an interesting turn of events considering they were picked to win the WS last year after acquiring Cabrera and they could be forced to trade him just over a year later

The article also says 15-20 other teams could be in the same boat. I would assume if we're 10 games under .500 at the ASG then Dye, Contreras and Dotel would be shopped, Thome and Konerko possibly approached about approving a trade, ect.

DumpJerry
03-26-2009, 01:31 PM
With that bullpen, I think the firesale is a foregone conclusion.
The Tigers have a bullpen?



Before a Sox/Tigers' game last year, they showed a video of pitching tips for kids on the scoreboard from one of the Sox' pitching coaches (not Coop). I looked over at the Tigers' bullpen and they were taking notes......

NLaloosh
03-26-2009, 01:39 PM
This is clearly the worst team in the division.

DumpJerry
03-26-2009, 01:48 PM
I did some closings for a client after the 2006 World Series who was originally from Pittsburgh. She said Leyland is real good at getting you in the door, but not through it. Kinda sounds like Piniella with a certain team that makes the playoffs and then shuts down the offense......

spiffie
03-26-2009, 02:12 PM
I did some closings for a client after the 2006 World Series who was originally from Pittsburgh. She said Leyland is real good at getting you in the door, but not through it. Kinda sounds like Piniella with a certain team that makes the playoffs and then shuts down the offense......
Managers and percentage of times winning the World Series - playoff appearances (all active world series winning managers included):

Ozzie Guillen: 1-2 (.500)
Cito Gaston: 2-4 (.500)
Terry Francona: 2-4 (.500)
Charlie Manuel: 1-3 (.333)
Joe Torre: 4-14 (.286)
Jim Leyland: 1-5 (.200)
Mike Scioscia: 1-5 (.200)
Lou Piniella: 1-7 (.143)
Bobby Cox: 1-15 (.067)
Ron Gardenhire: 0-4 (.000)
Dusty Baker: 0-4 (.000)
Bruce Bochy: 0-4 (.000)

Some good managers in that list who can't get a team through the final gate very often.

jabrch
03-26-2009, 02:29 PM
Cabrera, Verlander, and Granderson are not going anywhere. I'd say everyone else is probably fair game...of course depending on what is offered for some cases like Galarraga, for example.

So who is there that is of value that would benefit a "Fire Sale" where the intent was to bring down cost?

Bonderman 12.5mm this year and next year - I'm sure someone would take him - but they wouldn't get much for him - and may have to eat a bit of that deal also

Robertson 7mm this year, 10mm next - can't see much interest - unless someone was desperate for a 5th starter. He was soooo bad last year.

Willis 10mm this year, 12mm next - ha ha ha

Sheffield - 14mm this year, then FA - I'm not sure there'd be a long line for Sheff. His performance has gotten worse and worse the past few years

Magglio 18mm this year, and a 3mm buyout to his 18mm team option in 2010 - they'd have to eat a bunch of it - but someone would love to add Ordonez if they need a corner OF at the deadline.

Guillen 10mm this year, 13mm for each of the next two years - If he could still play the MI, he'd have some value. As a corner, in his mid 30s, with very little power, he loses a lof of that. He'd be a nice contract for them to unload if someone wanted him. I just don't see where they'd take him for that kind of price tag.

Polanco 4.6mm...they could move him now, play Raburn, and probably not be any worse off.

Inge - 6.3 this year, 6.6 next...I guess someone would bit. They could probably send him to the Yanks if they wanted to move him now.

Laird - he's a relative bargain at under 3mm

I don't see many opportunities for them. Not where they can reduce cost by much.

If the economy hits a lot of teams at once, it may become a major buyers market where those teams who have shown restraint can get good players very cheap, or where teams are forced to give up valuable pieces along with an expensive player, for very little. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I'd love to see Williams capitalize on this.

whitesox901
03-26-2009, 03:32 PM
please, please let them start 0-7+ agian :gulp:

Oblong
03-26-2009, 06:57 PM
There won't be a firesale because if the team starts poorly then the guys they are willing to trade are obviously not doing very well so they'd have no value.

If Guillen had a managable ocntract he'd be a good candidate to be traded. Polanco's in the final year and there's some decent 2B prospects in the system. But he may be traded anyway for that reason.

Dumb article.

MarkZ35
03-26-2009, 07:27 PM
It is beyond me how many "experts" are picking the Tigers to be in the mix to win the division. They have basically the same team with possibly a few improvements and look how awful they were last year. Sure it may be a 3 or 4 team race but I really can't see them being one of them.

...
03-26-2009, 08:25 PM
There won't be a firesale because if the team starts poorly then the guys they are willing to trade are obviously not doing very well so they'd have no value.

If Guillen had a managable ocntract he'd be a good candidate to be traded. Polanco's in the final year and there's some decent 2B prospects in the system. But he may be traded anyway for that reason.

Dumb article.

You can score 100 runs every game runs but if you're giving up 101, you won't win many. To say everyone must be doing poorly for the team to be doing poorly is simply untrue. The Tiger's pitching sucks, period.

whitesox901
03-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Tigers fans try to write off last season becuase of "injuries", the only starter they lost was Bonderman, and he isn't very good in general and Granderson, and he only missed like 2 weeks.

The Tiger's pitching sucks, period.

and there ya have it

Oblong
03-26-2009, 08:40 PM
Ok, so if they are scoring 100 runs a game but have crappy pitching and are still losing then who is a candidate to be traded from the offense? Magglio and his 3 years at $51 million deal that he has left? Sheffield's $14 million? Guillen and his $36 million? Inge is owed $13 million but if he's showing a pulse on offense then the team wouldn't want to deal him due to his defense. Granderson and Cabrera are pretty much off the table. That leaves the likes of Adam Everett, Gerald Laird, and Marcus Thames. Not exactly firesale material. Thames is a strong candidate to be dealt before the season opens anyway.

oeo
03-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Magglio and his 3 years at $51 million deal that he has left?

I didn't realize that, ouch.

Oblong
03-26-2009, 09:38 PM
I didn't realize that, ouch.

He has an option that kicks in for 2 years based on plate appearances and games played, which barring major injury, will happen. So it's not 100%.

Oblong
03-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Tigers fans try to write off last season becuase of "injuries", the only starter they lost was Bonderman, and he isn't very good in general and Granderson, and he only missed like 2 weeks.

and there ya have it

And Carlos Guillen, and Gary Sheffield, and Joel Zumaya. The 3 and 5 hitters, plus the set up man.

but don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

whitesox901
03-26-2009, 09:55 PM
And Carlos Guillen, and Gary Sheffield, and Joel Zumaya. The 3 and 5 hitters, plus the set up man.

but don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Hows Joel looking this season? I know theirs been discussion on your board about him, but I haven't got a chance to read it

Red Barchetta
03-26-2009, 09:58 PM
What really blows my mind is how they drew over 3 million fans last season. They came in last place, plus they play in (gulp) Detroit. The ballpark is nice, but that nice?! It must have been the pre-season season ticket sales due to the free-agent signings.

I can't imagine they will be able to duplicate that this year unless they make the post season.

whitesox901
03-26-2009, 10:13 PM
What really blows my mind is how they drew over 3 million fans last season. They came in last place, plus they play in (gulp) Detroit. The ballpark is nice, but that nice?! It must have been the pre-season season ticket sales due to the free-agent signings.

I can't imagine they will be able to duplicate that this year unless they make the post season.

Comerica park is a very nice park, but I agree, unless there in the race all year long, I don't expect it to be 3 millionized agian

areilly
03-26-2009, 10:52 PM
What really blows my mind is how they drew over 3 million fans last season. They came in last place, plus they play in (gulp) Detroit. The ballpark is nice, but that nice?! It must have been the pre-season season ticket sales due to the free-agent signings.

My guess is the preseason hype did the selling for them. Also, does that 3MM refer to tickets sold, or to people through the turnstile?

The former wouldn't surprise me, but the latter would border on horrifying.

LoveYourSuit
03-26-2009, 11:01 PM
I did some closings for a client after the 2006 World Series who was originally from Pittsburgh. She said Leyland is real good at getting you in the door, but not through it. Kinda sounds like Piniella with a certain team that makes the playoffs and then shuts down the offense......


Your female friend there must have been on coma when he won the WS with the Marlins.

On second thought, the entire Miami area might have missed it too.

DumpJerry
03-26-2009, 11:05 PM
Your female friend there must have been on coma when he won the WS with the Marlins.

On second thought, the entire Miami area might have missed it too.
She's from Pittsburgh. They won the division three years in a row with him. (I know, the Pirates winning the Division sounds real strange, but it has happened)

You're probably right about the people of Miami. I'm sure if you stopped 30 people on a Miami street at random, three of them would know they might have won the World Series at some point in the last 15 years.

whitesox901
03-26-2009, 11:31 PM
My guess is the preseason hype did the selling for them. Also, does that 3MM refer to tickets sold, or to people through the turnstile?

The former wouldn't surprise me, but the latter would border on horrifying.

I think it was the first one, In the early and late parts of the season, Comerica park was anywhere from like half way to one-third of the way full, so I doubt it be 3,000,000 people in there if crowds were thin for parts of it, and probebly just 3,000,000 tickets sold.

...
03-26-2009, 11:40 PM
Ok, so if they are scoring 100 runs a game but have crappy pitching and are still losing then who is a candidate to be traded from the offense? Magglio and his 3 years at $51 million deal that he has left? Sheffield's $14 million? Guillen and his $36 million? Inge is owed $13 million but if he's showing a pulse on offense then the team wouldn't want to deal him due to his defense. Granderson and Cabrera are pretty much off the table. That leaves the likes of Adam Everett, Gerald Laird, and Marcus Thames. Not exactly firesale material. Thames is a strong candidate to be dealt before the season opens anyway.

Bad contracts and bad pitching... sounds like 1st place material.

guillen4life13
03-27-2009, 01:24 AM
She's from Pittsburgh. They won the division three years in a row with him. (I know, the Pirates winning the Division sounds real strange, but it has happened)

You're probably right about the people of Miami. I'm sure if you stopped 30 people on a Miami street at random, three of them would know they might have won the World Series at some point in the last 15 years.

So incredibly untrue it's unbelievable. The issue of Miami/Marlins attendance has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

Oblong
03-27-2009, 06:03 AM
Bad contracts and bad pitching... sounds like 1st place material.
That's not the argument I put forward. I was responding to your point that there could still be a firesale if the team was scoring a ton of runs but had bad pitching and losing games. I showed you why that's not true.

Oblong
03-27-2009, 06:06 AM
I think it was the first one, In the early and late parts of the season, Comerica park was anywhere from like half way to one-third of the way full, so I doubt it be 3,000,000 people in there if crowds were thin for parts of it, and probebly just 3,000,000 tickets sold.

The park was near capacity from May through August. Then it got down to the mid 20s in temrs of actual attendance. April and September are bad months for attendance here.

Last year the team sold 27,000 full season equivalents in terms of season tickets. Meaning if 3 people split the same seat for 27 game packages, they get counted as one. This year the number is supposedly around 15,000. In 2006 it was 11,000 and 2007 around 14.

27,000 is unusually high.

...
03-27-2009, 10:17 AM
That's not the argument I put forward. I was responding to your point that there could still be a firesale if the team was scoring a ton of runs but had bad pitching and losing games. I showed you why that's not true.

Initially your argument was that there could be no fire sale because if the Tigers are doing poorly, the players that would be traded must be doing poorly. If you ready my first response, I showed you why that is not true.

PaleHoser
03-27-2009, 10:32 AM
Best of luck to Detroit (or any team for that matter) looking to dump salary this season. There aren't many teams capable of taking on payroll.

I_Liked_Manuel
03-27-2009, 11:17 AM
What really blows my mind is how they drew over 3 million fans last season. They came in last place, plus they play in (gulp) Detroit. The ballpark is nice, but that nice?! It must have been the pre-season season ticket sales due to the free-agent signings.

Comerica's a very nice park. The sightlines from the upper deck are amazing

doublem23
03-27-2009, 11:25 AM
Comerica's a very nice park. The sightlines from the upper deck are amazing

I agree, I was there for a Sox/Tigers game in 2006 (I think this one (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET200607200.shtml)) and we were sitting in the upper bowl, but it was still a nice experience. The parking situation around the park was strange, but the stadium itself is very nice.

Oblong
03-27-2009, 02:02 PM
Initially your argument was that there could be no fire sale because if the Tigers are doing poorly, the players that would be traded must be doing poorly. If you ready my first response, I showed you why that is not true.

No you didn't. You referenced offense. I showed you why trading top performers on the offense wasn't going to happen. You said the pitching sucks. Fine. But if the team's not doing well then that must mean the pitching's not doing well? Right? So if they're not doing well then why would anybody take on the contracts of those poor performers?

In order to have a firesale the players you are trading must have value to another team. In order to have value they probably need to be performing well. If htey are performing well then that means the team is probably performing well.

It's easy to speak in general terms but we're talking aobut one specific team and 25 players. The kinds of guys who can play well ofr a winning team on the Tigers happen to be guys with unfavorable contracts.

I just think this was a poorly thought out article. It's template driven. High payroll team coming off a bad year=potential firesale. That's the formula. Unfortunately for the Tigers it's not one that fits them and if they do start out bad then there's not much tey can do to shed payroll. Willis, Magglio, Robertson, Bonderman, and Guillen comprise a big payroll figure for 2010. The other guys under contract for 2010 are not going to be traded.

...
03-27-2009, 04:09 PM
No you didn't. You referenced offense. I showed you why trading top performers on the offense wasn't going to happen. You said the pitching sucks. Fine. But if the team's not doing well then that must mean the pitching's not doing well? Right? So if they're not doing well then why would anybody take on the contracts of those poor performers?

In order to have a firesale the players you are trading must have value to another team. In order to have value they probably need to be performing well. If htey are performing well then that means the team is probably performing well.

It's easy to speak in general terms but we're talking aobut one specific team and 25 players. The kinds of guys who can play well ofr a winning team on the Tigers happen to be guys with unfavorable contracts.

I just think this was a poorly thought out article. It's template driven. High payroll team coming off a bad year=potential firesale. That's the formula. Unfortunately for the Tigers it's not one that fits them and if they do start out bad then there's not much tey can do to shed payroll. Willis, Magglio, Robertson, Bonderman, and Guillen comprise a big payroll figure for 2010. The other guys under contract for 2010 are not going to be traded.


I don't understand how you can be so confused.

If the offense is scoring 100 runs/game then, obviously, there are offensive players performing extremely well which would be valuable to other teams in a "fire sale." If your pitching is giving up 101 runs/game your team is not going to win man games, thus the Tigers performing poorly as a team but still having valuable trading commodities in a "fire sale."

Oblong
03-27-2009, 09:36 PM
I don't understand how you can be so confused.

If the offense is scoring 100 runs/game then, obviously, there are offensive players performing extremely well which would be valuable to other teams in a "fire sale." If your pitching is giving up 101 runs/game your team is not going to win man games, thus the Tigers performing poorly as a team but still having valuable trading commodities in a "fire sale."

Maybe you missed it the first time around when I tried to explain it.

Let's review these offensive players one by one.

1. Granderson - Not going to be traded
2. Polanco. Trade bait regardless of how well the team is doing. Final year of his deal and there's middle infield prospects in the system
3. Ordonez - $51 million due in 2009, 2010, 2011. He's 35 and shaky in the outfield. I don't think a team's going to want him at that price.
4. Cabrera - Not going to be traded
5. Sheffield - Final year, $13 million. If someone wanted him at that price they could have gotten him in waivers last year.
6. Guillen - He's due $36 million for 2009, 2010, and 2011. Can't play SS. Can't play 1B. Trying LF this year because there's no where else to put him while Sheffield's on the team.

That leaves Inge/Laird/Everett. Laird and Everett are on 1 year deals already.

So explain to me the scenario with these players and these contracts where you'd get something called a "firesale"? Have you seen the free agent market this last off season?

It's easy for someone like Buster Olney to just spout off at random but once you look at real players then the template doesn't quite fit.

...
03-27-2009, 10:36 PM
Maybe you missed it the first time around when I tried to explain it.

Let's review these offensive players one by one.

1. Granderson - Not going to be traded
2. Polanco. Trade bait regardless of how well the team is doing. Final year of his deal and there's middle infield prospects in the system
3. Ordonez - $51 million due in 2009, 2010, 2011. He's 35 and shaky in the outfield. I don't think a team's going to want him at that price.
4. Cabrera - Not going to be traded
5. Sheffield - Final year, $13 million. If someone wanted him at that price they could have gotten him in waivers last year.
6. Guillen - He's due $36 million for 2009, 2010, and 2011. Can't play SS. Can't play 1B. Trying LF this year because there's no where else to put him while Sheffield's on the team.

That leaves Inge/Laird/Everett. Laird and Everett are on 1 year deals already.

So explain to me the scenario with these players and these contracts where you'd get something called a "firesale"? Have you seen the free agent market this last off season?

It's easy for someone like Buster Olney to just spout off at random but once you look at real players then the template doesn't quite fit.

"There won't be a firesale because if the team starts poorly then the guys they are willing to trade are obviously not doing very well so they'd have no value."

That is what you said and that is what I have reference in my last 3 posts.

Just because the Tigers are not performing well as a team does not mean every single individual player sucks and is untradeable.

I don't know where the hell you're going here.

Oblong
03-27-2009, 10:44 PM
"There won't be a firesale because if the team starts poorly then the guys they are willing to trade are obviously not doing very well so they'd have no value."

That is what you said and that is what I have reference in my last 3 posts.

Just because the Tigers are not performing well as a team does not mean every single individual player sucks and is untradeable.

I don't know where the hell you're going here.

I was speaking about the guys they would be willing to trade and who would have value to other teams (meaning they are performing well and do not have prohibitive contracts). If those particular players are tradable then they're doing well. If they're doing well then that tells me the team overall will be doing well.

How about referencing the several posts since then instead of just one sentence? Do you have any particular players in mind who would be part of a fire sale?

thedudeabides
03-27-2009, 11:23 PM
I was speaking about the guys they would be willing to trade and who would have value to other teams (meaning they are performing well and do not have prohibitive contracts). If those particular players are tradable then they're doing well. If they're doing well then that tells me the team overall will be doing well.

How about referencing the several posts since then instead of just one sentence? Do you have any particular players in mind who would be part of a fire sale?

I have to agree with you that most of the guys you referenced would be un-tradable. But, I'm sure they will try. If Shefield is performing decent again this year a team with a big need may take him on for the second half. That's about the only one that the Tigers may be able to move. And even that is a long shot.

FloridaTigers
03-28-2009, 03:19 AM
Eh, they won't deal Cabrera, Verlander, Granderson, or Bonderman. No one wants anyone else.

And the Tigers team is NOT as bad as you all make it out to be. The bullpen is improved, with potential prospects Perry and Fien likely to help out later on. The starting rotation has question marks but Bonderman is healthy. His loss was HUGE to the team. Galaragga might not do as well as he did last season, but should be decent. Verlander had a fluke season, and has done well this spring. Jackson is a wildcard, I don't think anyone knows what to expect.

soxinem1
03-28-2009, 08:48 AM
All I know is that DET came from nowhere to go to the World Series in 2006, so to even write them off is sort of silly.

If they do not stumble out of the gate last year and at least play .500, they are right there in the race all year with the injuries, Willis and Robertson MIA, and no bullpen.

Additionally, Jackson, Verlander, and a healthy Bonderman are three very good arms to start off the rotation. Gallaraga and whoever for four and five puts them in a decent situation, as every team in the division except MIN has the four and five spots as a question mark, us definitely included.

Willis and Bonderman combined for 0 wins last year on a team that won 76. If each of them win just ten, it changes the situation dramatically.

I agree the bullpen is a little bit of a crap shoot, but isn't everyone's bullpen? Relievers can have a 2.00 ERA one year, 4.95 the next.

I remember a lot of posters claiming our 2006 bullpen would be so awesome based on what they did in 2005, and look what happened?

That being said, with that lineup, even if it has a few greybeards and soon-to-be DH's playing the field, I would not be very suprised if they are quite competitive.

...
03-28-2009, 09:32 AM
I was speaking about the guys they would be willing to trade and who would have value to other teams (meaning they are performing well and do not have prohibitive contracts). If those particular players are tradable then they're doing well. If they're doing well then that tells me the team overall will be doing well.

How about referencing the several posts since then instead of just one sentence? Do you have any particular players in mind who would be part of a fire sale?

I don't care anymore. The Tigers suck.

champagne030
03-28-2009, 01:09 PM
I don't care anymore. The Tigers suck.

Get pwned then use old reliable, but "they suck". Nice.

palehozenychicty
03-28-2009, 02:08 PM
All I know is that DET came from nowhere to go to the World Series in 2006, so to even write them off is sort of silly.

If they do not stumble out of the gate last year and at least play .500, they are right there in the race all year with the injuries, Willis and Robertson MIA, and no bullpen.

Additionally, Jackson, Verlander, and a healthy Bonderman are three very good arms to start off the rotation. Gallaraga and whoever for four and five puts them in a decent situation, as every team in the division except MIN has the four and five spots as a question mark, us definitely included.

Willis and Bonderman combined for 0 wins last year on a team that won 76. If each of them win just ten, it changes the situation dramatically.

I agree the bullpen is a little bit of a crap shoot, but isn't everyone's bullpen? Relievers can have a 2.00 ERA one year, 4.95 the next.

I remember a lot of posters claiming our 2006 bullpen would be so awesome based on what they did in 2005, and look what happened?

That being said, with that lineup, even if it has a few greybeards and soon-to-be DH's playing the field, I would not be very suprised if they are quite competitive.

Bonderman will have to win 15 for them to even think of being a serious contender. Willis is just about done. He's won before, so I don't want to push him away completely. If he wins 10 games this year, then the Comeback Player of the Decade is his award.

...
03-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Get pwned then use old reliable, but "they suck". Nice.

Pwned? Hardly. :rolleyes: We're not even arguing the same premise and it's getting annoying.




... oh, and the Tigers suck.

FloridaTigers
03-29-2009, 02:59 AM
http://www.mackavenuetigers.com/2009/03/26/firesale-we-talkin-firesale/

whitesox901
03-29-2009, 03:07 AM
IMO, I doubt Detroit will do a fire sale, I think when that ship goes down, everyone's going down with it