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View Full Version : Sox Sign Gavin Floyd to Extension


DirtySox
03-22-2009, 03:25 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/index.html

4 Years, 15.5 Million.

Discuss.

102605
03-22-2009, 03:27 PM
That is less then 4 million per year. Very good deal for the White Sox considering there are long relievers making more than that.

GoGoCrede
03-22-2009, 03:28 PM
My favorite pitcher last season. Great news in my book.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 03:29 PM
Says Danks was offered the same deal and said no thanks.

102605
03-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Says Danks was offered the same deal and said no thanks.

That is disappointing but maybe this deal will still lower what Danks is going to get. He probably does deserve a little more cash.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 03:30 PM
I would think Danks is worth alot more and he knows it. As long as they get sometime done down the line, I'm fine with that.

delben91
03-22-2009, 03:33 PM
Says Danks was offered the same deal and said no thanks.

Great deal for Gavin at that price.

How many more years is Danks under the Sox control? Imagine they'll certainly work something out eventually.

DrCrawdad
03-22-2009, 03:37 PM
Chris Stewart Traded To Yankees (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/statuses/1371678841) for "future considerations." Corky the jobs yours.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 03:38 PM
2013 Club Option as well Cowley says.

WHILEPITCH
03-22-2009, 03:46 PM
I understand there's an option for 2013, but can someone explain all the motivations the Sox have for doing something like this?

With a guy who has had such a rocky road since being drafted, it would seem like he'd be a candidate for a wait-and-see approach

getonbckthr
03-22-2009, 03:51 PM
I understand there's an option for 2013, but can someone explain all the motivations the Sox have for doing something like this?

With a guy who has had such a rocky road since being drafted, it would seem like he'd be a candidate for a wait-and-see approach
Its a gamble. If he keeps pitching well and progressing we won, if he goes back to Phillies Floyd we lost. If we didnt do it and he kept progressing we would have been giving him perseason what he is getting over 4.

anewman35
03-22-2009, 03:51 PM
I understand there's an option for 2013, but can someone explain all the motivations the Sox have for doing something like this?

With a guy who has had such a rocky road since being drafted, it would seem like he'd be a candidate for a wait-and-see approach

Another good season or two he'd be worth a lot more. The Sox are obviously just taking the gamble that he'll keep being good (and if he's not, they aren't out THAT much money compared to the total payroll).

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 04:04 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-sign-floyd-to-four-year-15-million-dollar-extension.html

Quentin also approached with an extension but wasn't interested.

Thome25
03-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Who is Danks' agent? Please tell me it isn't Boras.

Harry Potter
03-22-2009, 04:06 PM
Who is Danks' agent? Please tell me it isn't Boras.

Boras represented him in the past. Jeff Berry does now.

sox1970
03-22-2009, 04:06 PM
Who is Danks' agent? Please tell me it isn't Boras.

It used to be. He dropped him for Jeff Berry.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 04:09 PM
I'm curious what the offer was to Quentin. It sounds like all three offers were similar in value.

Thome25
03-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Boras represented him in the past. Jeff Berry does now.

It used to be. He dropped him for Jeff Berry.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

Thanks for the info and thank God it isn't Boras.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 04:16 PM
Good move.

I think Danks and Quentin would be willing to sign, but (understandably) want more money. Danks had a better ERA than Floyd, and before his injury Quentin was a legitimate MVP candidate.

soxinem1
03-22-2009, 04:17 PM
Considering a year ago today it was put-up-or-your-gone, Floyd will get a lifetime of security even if he reverts to his pre-2008 form.

If he pitches anything like he did in 2008, the White Sox get a steal.

Domeshot17
03-22-2009, 04:22 PM
Makes sense. The only thing that scares me is you always hear those stories about guys like Quentin (garland had the same rumors) not liking the cold and wanting to go back west to play. Danks is being smart, he knows he is by far the best starter on this staff, and by the all star break will be our number 1. Why rush. That offer will be there after this year. Quentin on the other hand, lets just hope he likes playing here and starts making some connections to the city.

soxlug
03-22-2009, 04:46 PM
I don't see where it was the same amounts offered for Danks and Quentin as were for Floyd. I just think that Danks and Quentin are thinking they will get more each year going therough the arbitration process. I don't think it has anything to do on thier long term, well we are talking about 2013 here but long term I am sure we will get a chance to sign these guys eventually. Danks I am thinking likes the organization a lot, I mean his brother will be our CF someday. Quentin not sure what he thinks about long term but he started to turn himself into a star last year. Them not being interested probably has more to do with the business side of things not how much they like playing on the South Side.

guillensdisciple
03-22-2009, 04:48 PM
For that much? Wow, what a great and inexpensive signing. The White Sox are setting themselves up for some great signings in the near future if needed.

MarkZ35
03-22-2009, 05:11 PM
Even with the economic issues I believe this is a steal. There are #5 starters getting more money than this and I can't see Floyd winning less than 10 games as long as he stays healthy. We don't have the payroll of the Yankees and Red Sox so you sort of have to use the theory of the Rays the past few seasons and take chances on young talent and lock it up.

jabrch
03-22-2009, 05:20 PM
I would think Danks is worth alot more and he knows it. As long as they get sometime done down the line, I'm fine with that.

It is a simple question of how much risk Danks wants to take. He can go year to year and make more money, if he continues to be as effective as he was last year. He can also sign now, lock in 20min, and not have to worry about money...EVER.

Domeshot17
03-22-2009, 05:25 PM
Im guessing to get Danks to sign we are looking at 4/24 5/32 something in that area.

parlaycard
03-22-2009, 05:25 PM
I would think Danks is worth alot more and he knows it. As long as they get sometime done down the line, I'm fine with that.

I agree. Danks will just post another solid year, and cement himself at the Sox #1 starter. He will sign on the dotted line for quite a bit more in my opinion.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 05:27 PM
Lester's contract (5/30) is a very good comparison in regards to what Danks should/would get.

Rdy2PlayBall
03-22-2009, 05:33 PM
To me, Danks is more important that Floyd to get an extension. They both look like they are for real, but Danks looks like he is going to be a future ace.

DumpJerry
03-22-2009, 06:01 PM
Who is Danks' agent? Please tell me it isn't Boras.

Boras represented him in the past. Jeff Berry does now.
The Danks brothers were represented by Satan, I mean Borass, but fired him after Jordan was drafted by the Sox and went with Berry who is also Buehrle's agent.

I'm not worried about TCQ and Danks' contact positions right now. They probably want to see how things go for them this season to see if they can increase their value. Also, if economic forecasts improve over the summer, then there might be more $$ available.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 06:04 PM
The Danks brothers were represented by Satan, I mean Borass, but fired him after Jordan was drafted by the Sox and went with Berry who is also Buehrle's agent.

I'm not worried about TCQ and Danks' contact positions right now. They probably want to see how things go for them this season to see if they can increase their value. Also, if economic forecasts improve over the summer, then there might be more $$ available.

Agreed. In one of the articles it says Carlos's response was that the timing isn't right.

Danks has mentioned a few times before how he'd love to play in Chicago for years to come. Not to mention he might be playing with his brother as the center fielder in the future.

WhiteSox5187
03-22-2009, 06:06 PM
The Danks brothers were represented by Satan, I mean Borass, but fired him after Jordan was drafted by the Sox and went with Berry who is also Buehrle's agent.

I'm not worried about TCQ and Danks' contact positions right now. They probably want to see how things go for them this season to see if they can increase their value. Also, if economic forecasts improve over the summer, then there might be more $$ available.

I agree, i think that Floyd probably took this deal because of his history (let's face it, if he sucked last year his career would be over now) so he needed the security a lot more than either Danks or Quentin. Both of them can have down years and probably still get an offer similar to the one Floyd just got, so barring injury their price can only go up but I think it will be well within the Sox price range.

Frontman
03-22-2009, 06:08 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-sign-floyd-to-four-year-15-million-dollar-extension.html

Quentin also approached with an extension but wasn't interested.

We'll see how it pans out. I hope to see Quentin in a Sox uniform for years to come.

DumpJerry
03-22-2009, 06:10 PM
I agree, i think that Floyd probably took this deal because of his history (let's face it, if he sucked last year his career would be over now) so he needed the security a lot more than either Danks or Quentin. Both of them can have down years and probably still get an offer similar to the one Floyd just got, so barring injury their price can only go up but I think it will be well within the Sox price range.
Floyd went for the sure thing. At his age, the money he agreed to will set up him up for life.

I would have done what Floyd did, if Danks or TCQ has a serious injury, then all bets are off for their next contract being big.

Bucky F. Dent
03-22-2009, 06:40 PM
Very good news!

veeter
03-22-2009, 07:49 PM
I like it.

HomeFish
03-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Not a fan of this move. I guess a gamble is a gamble, but I just find it unlikely that we will ever see 2008 Danks again.

RockJock07
03-22-2009, 08:07 PM
Floyd went for the sure thing. At his age, the money he agreed to will set up him up for life.

I would have done what Floyd did, if Danks or TCQ has a serious injury, then all bets are off for their next contract being big.

I'm pleased with the contract. However I'm semi-glad that TCQ passed because I want to see if he can sustain the level of play he had last year. I think he can and waiting may end up costing the Sox more money however it think its worth it.

I think Danks gets signed next off-season for Lester money if he has another solid season.

cws05champ
03-22-2009, 08:15 PM
Very nice contract!! I hope he's for real and it turn into a steal for the Sox.

Not too worried about TCQ and Danks yet since we have them under control for 4 more years.

cws05champ
03-22-2009, 08:17 PM
Not a fan of this move. I guess a gamble is a gamble, but I just find it unlikely that we will ever see 2008 Danks again.
Why, do you think Danks will get better than 2008?

EnglishChiSox
03-22-2009, 08:19 PM
Why, do you think Danks will get better than 2008?

I've not seen anything from Danks which shows he won't keep getting better.

doublem23
03-22-2009, 08:21 PM
Not a fan of this move. I guess a gamble is a gamble, but I just find it unlikely that we will ever see 2008 Danks again.

What does that have to do with Gavin Floyd?

For less than $4 million/year, this is a very, very good move.

JB98
03-22-2009, 08:31 PM
This is a good move. There is some risk involved here from the Sox perspective, but I think it is a risk worth taking.

soxinem1
03-22-2009, 08:59 PM
Not a fan of this move. I guess a gamble is a gamble, but I just find it unlikely that we will ever see 2008 Danks again.

Did you mean Floyd when you made this statement?:?:

delben91
03-22-2009, 09:08 PM
Did you mean Floyd when you made this statement?:?:

He probably thinks they'll both be terrible from here on out. I'd love to hear his "logic" on both counts, and especially on Danks.

jabrch
03-22-2009, 09:49 PM
To me, Danks is more important that Floyd to get an extension.

Both are under our control for 4 more years. Same with TCQ. If either wants to lock themselves in, I'm sure the sox would be happy to do so. If either wans to go year to year we can do that too. There is risk on both partties for either approach.


EDIT: Jenks has 3 years also. He's a more tricky issue. Harder to go full boat on a closer...

thomas35forever
03-22-2009, 10:28 PM
Great news. The best deal Kenny has made since last season by far.

whitesox901
03-23-2009, 12:03 AM
good deal since we still don't know if Gavin is for real yet (which I personally think he is)

Eddo144
03-23-2009, 10:51 AM
Floyd's contract is a bargain. Even if he takes a step backwards this year or next, less than $4 million per year is nothing for a starter. Fangraphs has Floyd's value at $11.3 milion last year, so even if he's only half as effective going forward, he's still a bargain for the Sox.

For that reason, it doesn't surprise me at all that Danks wouldn't sign a similar offer. Fangraphs has Danks's value at $23.4 million last year (I don't known if people on this board even realize how great a year Danks had in 2008), so signing a four year contract worth less than that would have been a dumb move for him.

jabrch
03-23-2009, 11:00 AM
Floyd's contract is a bargain. Even if he takes a step backwards this year or next, less than $4 million per year is nothing for a starter. Fangraphs has Floyd's value at $11.3 milion last year, so even if he's only half as effective going forward, he's still a bargain for the Sox.

For that reason, it doesn't surprise me at all that Danks wouldn't sign a similar offer. Fangraphs has Danks's value at $23.4 million last year (I don't known if people on this board even realize how great a year Danks had in 2008), so signing a four year contract worth less than that would have been a dumb move for him.

That's ridiculous.

Eddo - he was not going to be a FA until after 2012. Who gives a crap what fangraphs says his value is?

You don't price a guy under your control based on what a FA is worth.

If he takes a step back, it becomes a bad deal (in that year - using perfect hindsight) because we could have had him for less. It's a great deal today - but what it ends up has nothing to do with what he'd be worth on the open market and everything to do with what a comparable pre-arbitration pitcher is worth going into his final season before arbitration.

Comparing Floyd to someone entering FA is lazy analysis.

doublem23
03-23-2009, 11:07 AM
That's ridiculous.

Eddo - he was not going to be a FA until after 2012. Who gives a crap what fangraphs says his value is?

You don't price a guy under your control based on what a FA is worth.

If he takes a step back, it becomes a bad deal (in that year - using perfect hindsight) because we could have had him for less. It's a great deal today - but what it ends up has nothing to do with what he'd be worth on the open market and everything to do with what a comparable pre-arbitration pitcher is worth going into his final season before arbitration.

Comparing Floyd to someone entering FA is lazy analysis.

:rolleyes:

All contracts are based on the what other comparable players are making. There's no objective salary guide out there.

Eddo144
03-23-2009, 11:31 AM
That's ridiculous.

Eddo - he was not going to be a FA until after 2012. Who gives a crap what fangraphs says his value is?

You don't price a guy under your control based on what a FA is worth.

If he takes a step back, it becomes a bad deal (in that year - using perfect hindsight) because we could have had him for less. It's a great deal today - but what it ends up has nothing to do with what he'd be worth on the open market and everything to do with what a comparable pre-arbitration pitcher is worth going into his final season before arbitration.

Comparing Floyd to someone entering FA is lazy analysis.
Where did I say the Sox should offer him what Fangraphs says he's worth? That's preposterous. You never offer a guy what he's worth, in case he does take a step back.

However, from Danks's point of view, why would he take a contract that far below what he was worth last year? I imagine he'll wind up with an extension in the 4 years/$30 million range, $7-8 million per year. That's more than Floyd (he's better than Floyd), but still cheap enough for a step back.

They already signed Floyd and got a great deal. What's your problem with that? I was using Fangraphs to point out that the Sox got a good deal, not implying they should have, for some reason, paid him more than he was willing to accept.

CashMan
03-23-2009, 12:19 PM
Where did I say the Sox should offer him what Fangraphs says he's worth? That's preposterous. You never offer a guy what he's worth, in case he does take a step back.

However, from Danks's point of view, why would he take a contract that far below what he was worth last year? I imagine he'll wind up with an extension in the 4 years/$30 million range, $7-8 million per year. That's more than Floyd (he's better than Floyd), but still cheap enough for a step back.

They already signed Floyd and got a great deal. What's your problem with that? I was using Fangraphs to point out that the Sox got a good deal, not implying they should have, for some reason, paid him more than he was willing to accept.


I think you are confusing two different him being worth systems. I doubt he would get 7-8mill in arbitration. He is still under control by the WhiteSox, he might be worth 7-8mill in FA but not when arbitration eligible.

HomeFish
03-23-2009, 12:20 PM
By signing this deal, Floyd is essentially admitting that he thinks he will regress over the next four years.

sox1970
03-23-2009, 12:25 PM
By signing this deal, Floyd is essentially admitting that he thinks he will regress over the next four years.

:rolleyes:

Or he wants security in the event he blows his arm out.

He could have gone year to year and made more money, but it's his choice to take the security now. Can't fault him for that. Nor can you fault Quentin and Danks not taking the deals now. To each their own.

CashMan
03-23-2009, 12:31 PM
By signing this deal, Floyd is essentially admitting that he thinks he will regress over the next four years.


Or, he doesn't want to touch the arbitration process. The WhiteSox go in there bad mouth him to get a cheaper contract, something that I am sure he would love to do.

Thome25
03-23-2009, 02:23 PM
By signing this deal, Floyd is essentially admitting that he thinks he will regress over the next four years.


Please........do you post this stuff just to get a negative reaction? Because if you're not trolling, and this is your actual opinion then do everyone a favor and> GO. FAR. AWAY. FROM. HERE. PLEASE.:rolleyes:

jabrch
03-23-2009, 02:45 PM
:rolleyes:

All contracts are based on the what other comparable players are making. There's no objective salary guide out there.

But you can only compare a guy with 2 years of service time to other guys with the same service time. Fangraphs saying he is with some silly number of money makes no sense - since he is locked in this year at about 500K, and then 3 arb years where even under best case he'd only total about 20mm.

Gavin chose security over upside. Danks decided to roll the dice on one year. Neither are wrong or right - but the contracts can't be compared to what a guy is "worth" if you are measuring his performance to the overall market without comprehending the salary structure in that evaluation.

FedEx227
03-23-2009, 02:53 PM
Please........do you post this stuff just to get a negative reaction? Because if you're not trolling, and this is your actual opinion then do everyone a favor and> GO. FAR. AWAY. FROM. HERE. PLEASE.:rolleyes:

It's really not some mind-blowing thing most of the baseball world expects regression for Floyd.

jabrch
03-23-2009, 02:56 PM
However, from Danks's point of view, why would he take a contract that far below what he was worth last year?

That's just false. He will have to take a contract this year for even less. he will play this year for ~500k. He will play next year for about 4mm, about 6 the following, and about 10 the year after that, assuming arbitration awards remain on the current path.

He will take a contract for far below what you think he is worth because that is how the MLB salary structure works.

Why was Ervin Santana only asking for 4.3mm and the Angels were offering 3.6mm? Santana is "worth" more than that using the Eddo scale. But the fact is - he wasn't - because it was his first season or arbitration eligibility - same for Danks in his final year before arbitration - where his salary is proscribed by the CBA. Cole Hammels just signed a 3 year 20mm deal. I'm sure you think he's worth more than that - but that doesn't matter. Your salary in baseball, for your first 6 years, has very little to do with what you are worth.

Thome25
03-23-2009, 02:56 PM
It's really not some mind-blowing thing most of the baseball world expects regression for Floyd.

Yeah that's one thing but, to suggest that the reason he accepted the deal is because he himself expects to regress is asinine and has gotta be borderline trolling because there's no way someone in their right mind could think that's the way Floyd feels.

FedEx227
03-23-2009, 03:00 PM
It's probably in the back of his mind.

I know after a career-year I'd love to sign a deal, especially with how the economy is right now.

If he goes 12-11 this year with a 4.80 ERA and the economy is still in the ****s, there is no way he gets a deal like this.

It's a smart, un-greedy move for him. Did he get the most he could possibly get? No, probably not. Did he set himself up for financial security for a good portion of his career no matter how it progresses? Absolutely.

Boondock Saint
03-23-2009, 03:06 PM
Yeah that's one thing but, to suggest that the reason he accepted the deal is because he himself expects to regress is asinine and has gotta be borderline trolling because there's no way someone in their right mind could think that's the way Floyd feels.

You're absolutely right. And to make it worse, if Gav does have another good season, HomeFish would be the last person to own up to it.

DirtySox
03-24-2009, 06:22 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/index.html

From Cowley's Twitter:

In regards to turning down the contract offer, Danks says he doesn't want to sound greedy, but his advisor says the timing is wrong.

kittle42
03-24-2009, 06:32 PM
In regards to turning down the contract offer, Danks says he doesn't want to sound greedy, but his advisor says the timing is wrong.

There's always the risk of injury, but other than that, I can't blame him.

HomeFish
03-24-2009, 08:27 PM
It's really not some mind-blowing thing most of the baseball world expects regression for Floyd.

Bingo. It's not just some crazy HomeFish thing.

delben91
03-24-2009, 08:28 PM
Bingo. It's not just some crazy HomeFish thing.

But you said Danks, do you expect a regression with John as well?

HomeFish
03-24-2009, 08:29 PM
But you said Danks, do you expect a regression with John as well?

I clearly meant to say Floyd. I'm actually not sure what my opinion of Danks is.

DirtySox
03-24-2009, 10:02 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090324&content_id=4061254&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Article about Danks decision to decline the offer.

jabrch
03-25-2009, 03:32 PM
Floyd vs Scott Baker - Discuss