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Illini Stripes
03-22-2009, 09:57 AM
Who will be in the bull pen when we open up? What will be their roles?

russ99
03-22-2009, 11:25 AM
Good question. Barring injury, I think you can put 4 guys in stone:

Jenks - Closer
Linebrink, Thornton - Setup
Dotel - Middle

The other 3 spots: Middle, LOOGY and Long - we'll have to see, and it may not be set until they see if Colon and Contreras can start the season in the rotation.

I think the Sox would like Poreda to be one of the remaining relievers, since he either be a LOOGY or can go 2-3 innings. But he did have a bad outing this week, and they might send him to the minors to be a starter.

The usual suspects would be guys like Wassermann and Carrasco, and Richard if he's not starting.

Borderline guys like MacDougal, Russell and Jon Link (likely will close in AAA) could press their case in the next week.

Jack Egbert and lefty Randy Williams (may sneak in if Poreda gets sent down) are having nice springs too, but I'm not sure if either are a viable option.

delben91
03-22-2009, 11:55 AM
Good question. Barring injury, I think you can put 4 guys in stone:

Jenks - Closer
Linebrink, Thornton - Setup
Dotel - Middle

The other 3 spots: Middle, LOOGY and Long - we'll have to see, and it may not be set until they see if Colon and Contreras can start the season in the rotation.

I think the Sox would like Poreda to be one of the remaining relievers, since he either be a LOOGY or can go 2-3 innings. But he did have a bad outing this week, and they might send him to the minors to be a starter.

The usual suspects would be guys like Wassermann and Carrasco, and Richard if he's not starting.

Borderline guys like MacDougal, Russell and Jon Link (likely will close in AAA) could press their case in the next week.

Jack Egbert and lefty Randy Williams (may sneak in if Poreda gets sent down) are having nice springs too, but I'm not sure if either are a viable option.

Jeff Marquez is probably a good possibility as the long man. Especially if Richard has to take the 5 spot in the rotation.

Pretty sure Link already got optioned to Charlotte. But I could be wrong.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 02:45 PM
In addition to Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink and Dotel, I think Poreda and Marquez will make it.

I would love it if MacDougal could figure things out and grab that last spot. That would be a triumph of hope over experience, though.

nug0hs
03-22-2009, 02:57 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-22-white-sox-bits-chicago-mar22,0,552086.story

Based on this Tribune article it sounds like Marquez is in the 'pen and Richard will be the 5th starter.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 03:18 PM
I think I'm the only one that wants Poreda to continue starting in AAA.

delben91
03-22-2009, 03:32 PM
I think I'm the only one that wants Poreda to continue starting in AAA.

I'm with you. Poreda will be wasted as a LOOGY, and Marquez should be perfectly capable of being the long man. My bet is on Carrasco to stick.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 03:48 PM
Poreda probably could be more than a LOOGY, but rather a guy who could be brought in for 1-2 innings.

Ozzie's bullpen management often can be maddening, but it's just as maddening when a guy brought in to just to get one stinking out gives up a walk or a hard-hit ball.

It would be nice if Ozzie could bring in a reliever in the 7th inning, and that reliever could just get three quick outs. That would be helped if Poreda, being a middle relief lefty, could get both lefties and righties out, just like Thornton can.

delben91
03-22-2009, 03:55 PM
It would be nice if Ozzie could bring in a reliever in the 7th inning, and that reliever could just get three quick outs. That would be helped if Poreda, being a middle relief lefty, could get both lefties and righties out, just like Thornton can.

I see your point. I'm more of the opinion that Poreda getting to work more on a change-up in AAA and mature as a starter probably has better long term benefits for the Sox. Could he work on it in side sessions from the bullpen in the majors, sure, but I certainly wouldn't want him "trying" it in a game. I just don't want to stunt his growth prematurely.

Then again, wouldn't every manager like to bring in a reliever in the 7th who always got 3 straight outs? Regardless of Poreda or someone else, there are going to be bad outings over the course of the season.

I agree the top 4 are Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton and Dotel. My next two would be Marquez and Carrasco. If they keep a 7th, that's where it gets interesting. The potential of Poreda is tempting. But depending on the role the team wants filled, maybe Russell or Wassermann is worth a look.

Rdy2PlayBall
03-22-2009, 04:02 PM
I agree the top 4 are Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton and Dotel. My next two would be Marquez and Carrasco. If they keep a 7th, that's where it gets interesting. The potential of Poreda is tempting. But depending on the role the team wants filled, maybe Russell or Wassermann is worth a look.:(:

sox1970
03-22-2009, 04:05 PM
If Contreras and Colon are there from the beginning, I think Richard, Marquez, and Carrasco fill the three open spots.

If Richard is the number 5 starter, then add Randy Williams.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Then again, wouldn't every manager like to bring in a reliever in the 7th who always got 3 straight outs? Regardless of Poreda or someone else, there are going to be bad outings over the course of the season.

Of course there will be bad outings, especially in the 7th inning. I'd just like for the Sox to have fewer of them than in the past few years.

The 2005 bullpen was great; only Marte was unreliable that year. In 2006, Politte and Cotts both were unreliable. In 2007, after April most of the bullpen other than Jenks was unreliable. In 2008, the bullpen was working well early on when it was Thornton/Dotel - Linebrink - Jenks. Once Jenks had his DL stint, Linebrink couldn't handle the 9th. Then when Jenks returned, Linebrink got hurt and Dotel got wobbly. By the end of the year, only Jenks and Thornton were reliable.

I'd be happy if in 2009 - just like in 2005 - the Sox only had one unreliable reliever. That guy can be the mop-up guy in blowouts.

Assuming Linebrink returns to health, the Thornton/Dotel - Linebrink - Jenks 7-8-9 succession should help the Sox lock down leads.

Then, the question is in close games where the Sox trail, where the Sox starter gets chased before the 6th inning. If Marquez and Poreda can stop the bleeding by pitching 1-2 scoreless innings each, that should give the Sox lineup some time to put runs on the board and overcome deficits.

tm1119
03-22-2009, 05:02 PM
I really dont think Poreda is ready. Everything I have read says that he still hasnt developed even a reliable 2nd pitch. Let him pitch in AAA and develop more. No reason to rush him into a role that really isnt all that important.

WhiteSox5187
03-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Maybe it's just me but I'm worried about the pen. Towards August and September of last year the pen looked as bad as it did in '07.

Konerko05
03-22-2009, 07:47 PM
I think I'm the only one that wants Poreda to continue starting in AAA.

You aren't the only one. I think it would be an awful decision to keep Poreda with the White Sox.

If the Sox feel he can still improve on his slider and change up, that's exactly what he should be doing. He has much more value as a starter than a LOOGY.

Also if he's still learning to throw his slider, it's going to get murdered at the major league level. He is going to lose any confidence he had in his progress. He should be fully developed before he even sniffs the majors. You think the Sox would have learned by now about rushing first-round draft picks.

oeo
03-22-2009, 07:48 PM
Maybe it's just me but I'm worried about the pen. Towards August and September of last year the pen looked as bad as it did in '07.

That had a lot to do with our starters only going 4 or 5 innings just about every day. As long as Linebrink is healthy and has his fastball back, the pen should be fine.

balke
03-22-2009, 07:55 PM
You aren't the only one. I think it would be an awful decision to keep Poreda with the White Sox.

If the Sox feel he can still improve on his slider and change up, that's exactly what he should be doing. He has much more value as a starter than a LOOGY.

Also if he's still learning to throw his slider, it's going to get murdered at the major league level. He is going to lose any confidence he had in his progress. He should be fully developed before he even sniffs the majors. You think the Sox would have learned by now about rushing first-round draft picks.

I think if is the big word here. I agree with your point, but maybe the Sox think he can develop those pitches regardless of whether or not he's going to be a starter this year. I think the team could use him, and it might be easier for a pitcher like him who has great stuff but still is trying to learn pitches he might not ever develop into great pitches, to just come out and be productive as a reliever in the meantime.

I don't think he'll get locked in as a career reliever or anything. Why not let him throw some fire out of the pen and earn a little cash, while still trying to incorporate and develop new pitches?

oeo
03-22-2009, 07:59 PM
I think if is the big word here. I agree with your point, but maybe the Sox think he can develop those pitches regardless of whether or not he's going to be a starter this year. I think the team could use him, and it might be easier for a pitcher like him who has great stuff but still is trying to learn pitches he might not ever learn, to just come out and be productive as a reliever in the meantime.

I don't think he'll get locked in as a career reliever or anything. Why not let him throw some fire out of the pen and earn a little cash, while still trying to incorporate new pitches?

Because if he does develop them, he could be a top of the rotation guy. If he's in the minors, he can continue to throw his breaking stuff and hopefully improve upon it. Up in Chicago, he's just going to be using his fastball.

He may never develop his change and slider, but that's not a reason to stunt that development now.

JB98
03-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Maybe it's just me but I'm worried about the pen. Towards August and September of last year the pen looked as bad as it did in '07.

I think Linebrink is a huge key. It's not a coincidence that the bullpen struggled the second half while Linebrink was on the DL.

If Linebrink is healthy and effective, he solidifies the eighth inning. We know Jenks has the ninth. At that point, Ozzie just has to find a way to get us through seven with the lead. If the starter can't get through seven, Ozzie can mix and match with Thornton, Dotel and Carrasco. More often than not, that will be good enough.

Bucky F. Dent
03-22-2009, 08:40 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-22-white-sox-bits-chicago-mar22,0,552086.story

Based on this Tribune article it sounds like Marquez is in the 'pen and Richard will be the 5th starter.


I am thinking that Colon is going to get cut lose before the end of ST (unless contract terms make that prohibitive). I also tend to agree that Poreda should go to Charlotte to develop that second pitch.

CWSpalehoseCWS
03-22-2009, 09:09 PM
I am thinking that Colon is going to get cut lose before the end of ST (unless contract terms make that prohibitive). I also tend to agree that Poreda should go to Charlotte to develop that second pitch.

Same here. I think the only reason the Sox signed him in the first place is because they didn't thing Contreras was going to be ready until June. Richard or Marquez could/should be able to hold down the 5th spot.

RichFitztightly
03-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Does anyone else think Poreda reminds them of Rob Nen? When I saw him pitch, that's the first person that popped into my head. Obviously, Poreda doesn't have quite the secondary pitches that Nen had, but the kid is still young.

russ99
03-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Because if he does develop them, he could be a top of the rotation guy. If he's in the minors, he can continue to throw his breaking stuff and hopefully improve upon it. Up in Chicago, he's just going to be using his fastball.

He may never develop his change and slider, but that's not a reason to stunt that development now.

Well, most scouting reports think Poreda's ceiling isn't that high as a starter and he could be much more valuable as a closer. Not many mid-to-top rotation starters only have 2 plus pitches (his slider is pretty good right now). The fact that he can go 2-3 innings per stint with his stuff, may make the Sox want to use him as a reliever now.

Also, it sounds like they want him to add a cutter as well as develop his marginal changeup.

If the Sox have him on the starter track, he'd be best served to work on his weaker pitches and throw every 5th day in Charlotte. If they more likely have him on the closer track, he'd probably develop better in the higher-pressure climate of the majors, and can learn from some guys who have excelled in that climate.

Still, there is something to be said for letting your high picks develop to their potential before slotting them into a MLB role...