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tm1119
03-19-2009, 08:18 PM
Take it for what its worth, but Scot Gregor thinks Kenny is gonna pull the trigger to bring in a CF real soon.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1661

He says no to Pierre and Edmonds, but maybe to Lofton and Pods. Not sure how I would feel about this. Lofton is as old as dirt, but did play very well (on our CF standards) in 07. How much could he possibly have left is the real question. Pods on the other hand, Im not too sure about. I love the guy for what he did for us in the past, but Im really not convinced that he will ever repeat what he did back then.
At this point any competition would be welcomed in my opinion, even if that player isnt going to be a starter. Wise started off hot but has showed his true self as of late, Owens has yet to show anything, and Anderson has been decent but still has a lot of holes in his game.

So what would you think of Lofton/Pods, and are there any other names that could be thrown into this mix that are a realistic posibility?

And please dont turn this into another pointless CF debate, we really dont need another 1 of those.

pearso66
03-19-2009, 08:22 PM
Take it for what its worth, but Scot Gregor thinks Kenny is gonna pull the trigger to bring in a CF real soon.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1661

He says no to Pierre and Edmonds, but maybe to Lofton and Pods. Not sure how I would feel about this. Lofton is as old as dirt, but did play very well (on our CF standards) in 07. How much could he possibly have left is the real question. Pods on the other hand, Im not too sure about. I love the guy for what he did for us in the past, but Im really not convinced that he will ever repeat what he did back then.
At this point any competition would be welcomed in my opinion, even if that player isnt going to be a starter. Wise started off hot but has showed his true self as of late, Owens has yet to show anything, and Anderson has been decent but still has a lot of holes in his game.

So what would you think of Lofton/Pods, and are there any other names that could be thrown into this mix that are a realistic posibility?

And please dont turn this into another pointless CF debate, we really dont need another 1 of those.

While our in house options aren't great, but I'll take what we have over any of those options.

DaveFeelsRight
03-19-2009, 08:23 PM
I believe Pod's last productive season was 06. If he can't make the team with the rockies....then i don't know

DaveFeelsRight
03-19-2009, 08:23 PM
While our in house options aren't great, but I'll take what we have over any of those options.atleast lofton knows how to get on base unlike owens

Tekijawa
03-19-2009, 08:27 PM
I'd rather go with what we have...

WhiteSox5187
03-19-2009, 08:33 PM
I don't think either Pods or Lofton are capable of being a starting CFer, Pods might be capable of being a decent guy off the bench, but that is likely to be sentimentality speaking.

SoxSpeed22
03-19-2009, 08:41 PM
I think that Kenny should wait until the deadline. The options should be there and he restocked the farm enough to trade for a serviceable CF.

jabrch
03-19-2009, 08:44 PM
I hope to heck that he doesn't bring in Pods to play CF. That would be plain old bad. Lofton? I doubt it.

It wouldn't surprise me if Pierre ends up here with LA paying off a big chunk of that deal. And I wouldn't mind it much either.

whitesox901
03-19-2009, 08:46 PM
Lofton!

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 08:51 PM
I think Scott has been reading WSI. Counting this one, how many CF/Leadoff threads do we have going? 3? 4?

This has gotten to the point of obsessive/compulsive disorder

getonbckthr
03-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Assuming the Dodgers eat salary Pierre makes the most sense. He can play CF and is a bonafide leadoff man. He also doesn't have a job and the Sox have had a ton of time to scout him considering we share a complex with the Dodgers.

Tragg
03-19-2009, 09:07 PM
Pods played left about on the level of Carlos Lee (without that Lee cannon)....this clown wants him for center? Yikes.

jabrch
03-19-2009, 09:13 PM
Assuming the Dodgers eat salary Pierre makes the most sense. He can play CF and is a bonafide leadoff man. He also doesn't have a job and the Sox have had a ton of time to scout him considering we share a complex with the Dodgers.

He also fits both Williams and Guillen's desires. KW likes goes who other people pay for. Guillen likes fast LH hitters who make contact, steal bases and have experience leading off.

The Dodgers also have no room for him - not to get him 600 PAs. If they could lose half or more of his payroll, they'd benefit from that. And they could use an IF.

It may not happen - but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

tm1119
03-19-2009, 09:17 PM
Assuming the Dodgers eat salary Pierre makes the most sense. He can play CF and is a bonafide leadoff man. He also doesn't have a job and the Sox have had a ton of time to scout him considering we share a complex with the Dodgers.

Pierre is set to make 8mil next year. How much would the Dodgers really be willing to pay of that? I cant see us paying any more than 2 mil for anybody really, nor do I see us giving up any of our prospects that have any worth. Would the Dodgers really pay 6mil and get no one in return just to get rid of Pierre? I do agree that he would be the best scenario, I just dont see it happening. Im hoping a vet CF becomes available after he loses his job in spring training. Spilborghs?Freel?Byrnes?Cody Ross? Dont know just throwin some names out there after taking a quick glance at a few rosters.

guillensdisciple
03-19-2009, 09:46 PM
How about we give Anderson a chance?

Red Barchetta
03-19-2009, 09:50 PM
I know Ozzie/KW would really like a lead-off hitting CF, however we just don't have too many options. Pods could lead off (again), however he wasn't a CF four years ago so why would we want him there now?

Lofton? Pass.

I wish they would just give Anderson the job and bat him near the bottom of the order. It still doesn't fix our lead off issue, however we might need to work around it.

CLR01
03-19-2009, 09:52 PM
How about we give Anderson a chance?



But we could have Podsednik!!!!111111!!1111111 2005!!!!!!!!!!!11111111


Just throw Konerko out there and be done with it.

russ99
03-19-2009, 10:11 PM
Pierre is set to make 8mil next year. How much would the Dodgers really be willing to pay of that? I cant see us paying any more than 2 mil for anybody really, nor do I see us giving up any of our prospects that have any worth. Would the Dodgers really pay 6mil and get no one in return just to get rid of Pierre? I do agree that he would be the best scenario, I just dont see it happening. Im hoping a vet CF becomes available after he loses his job in spring training. Spilborghs?Freel?Byrnes?Cody Ross? Dont know just throwin some names out there after taking a quick glance at a few rosters.

Is Pierre really that much of an upgrade over our in-house options? If the Dodgers eat a vast majority of his salary, possibly, but don't forget he's coming off a injury last season.

Not worth it IMO.

Freel went to Baltimore and isn't available, and as far as I can tell Byrnes isn't either.

Like the other poster said, at midseason there may be better players available.

Kenny could have signed any number of guys this offseason, but he chose the current club. I don't see him making a move out of desperation now, it's not his MO.

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 10:23 PM
What about an infielder and MacDougal to the Dodgers for Pierre plus cash?

Lip Man 1
03-19-2009, 10:28 PM
Russ:

"Desperation" is a rather strong term don't ya think? Kenny rarely, if ever, makes a move with that emotion behind it.

Maybe a better term or way to look at a possible deal is that he isn't satisfied with what he has and is trying to improve the team and their chances to win.

Lip

tm1119
03-19-2009, 11:03 PM
How about we give Anderson a chance?

Calm down, no one is replacing your boy. All I am saying is that what if he gets hurt or doesnt work out? Not to mention that as many have said before a platoon may very well be the best way to go. Could Kenny Lofton be affective playing CF 2 or 3 times a week while getting replaced on D late in games? Dont know, but his '07 #'s of .296 avg with a .367 OBP and 23 steals says that he has at least a little bit left in the tank. Now the fact that after putting up those #'s he didnt even get a look last year tells me that something may be up that we dont know about.
For all those who are saying Pierre, just curious to whether you have taken a look at his OBP over the past couple of years? .327, .331, .330. If we have to pay less than 2mil and give up nothing then yeah sure I would want him. With that said, Im not sure I would give him the 600+ AB's that he wants given his inability to get on base well and declining D. Jerry Owens did manage a .324 OBP in his 1st and only MLB season.

cheezheadsoxfan
03-19-2009, 11:03 PM
"threatening to drive the Sox into the ground" seems a little over the top.

TheOldRoman
03-19-2009, 11:27 PM
I believe Pod's last productive season was 06. If he can't make the team with the rockies....then i don't knowThe Rockies were coming off a pennant winning season, and 08 was derailed because of injuries. It isn't like they were horrible.

Aside from that, without reading the article, this is crazy. Pods can't stay healthy, and he is horrible in LEFT field. No way could he man CF. And after Kenny Lofton sat out an entire year, there is no way he is brought in as a 42 year old and made starting CF/leadoff hitter.

JermaineDye05
03-20-2009, 01:14 AM
I don't see anything happening.

Domeshot17
03-20-2009, 02:43 AM
Pierre is terrible. I don't know whats worse, his inability to actually get on base or the fact he wears a jersey and pants that are like 8 sizes too big for him. He looks like hes playing in freaking pajamas.

jabrch
03-20-2009, 09:25 AM
For all those who are saying Pierre, just curious to whether you have taken a look at his OBP over the past couple of years? .327, .331, .330. If we have to pay less than 2mil and give up nothing then yeah sure I would want him. With that said, Im not sure I would give him the 600+ AB's that he wants given his inability to get on base well and declining D. Jerry Owens did manage a .324 OBP in his 1st and only MLB season.

If he hits .290/.330, steals 50 bases, strikes out under 50 times, and has no problems with his legs that cut down his range, I feel like he'd be better than JO. To me, I'd consider Owens a very very very poor man's Juan Pierre. The difference is that in his prime, JP could hit well over .300. The past 4 years he's been .293, .292, .283, .276. That's not to say that if he isn't healthy he can't hit .300+ I just wouldn't bet on it. I don't see JO ever doing that.

I'd only be interested if LA was willing to eat a big chunk of that deal. Otherwise I am fine running with BA, Wise and JO in some timesharing arrangement.

Lillian
03-20-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm still wondering what happened to Yasser Gomez. There isn't any news about where he may be signing. He's a very high OBP good fielding Centerfielder. Those skills should translate into a pretty good Major Leaguer.

LoveYourSuit
03-20-2009, 09:44 AM
Bring back Willie Harris.

I knew this was going to happen when we didn't make a move for a legit leadoff hitter (although not too many were out there other than expensive options). I think the team put way too much hope on Owens getting the job and running away with it.

But then a again, OC lead off for us last year and wasn't great at it with what I believe migh have been about a .320 OBP%. And we made the playoffs.

beasly213
03-20-2009, 09:50 AM
Pierre is scheduled to make around 28 million over the next three years. He isn't coming here.

Podsednik won't be here either. If they gave up literally nothing for him or a player to be named later then whatever I'm fine with that but this team I think is going to stand as is.

cws05champ
03-20-2009, 11:28 AM
Pierre is scheduled to make around 28 million over the next three years. He isn't coming here.

Podsednik won't be here either. If they gave up literally nothing for him or a player to be named later then whatever I'm fine with that but this team I think is going to stand as is.
Well, The Dodgers ate $18Mil on Jones contract so whos to say they wouldn't pay $18mil of the $28 remaining just to get him out of there.

I would not be opposed to Pierre playing against RHP 75% of the time, Wise 25% against RHP and BA against LHP.

Madvora
03-20-2009, 11:35 AM
Sportsline's page on Juan Pierre has a little blurb about KW looking for a CF and leadoff guy.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/playerpage/132725

Sargeant79
03-20-2009, 11:58 AM
Well, The Dodgers ate $18Mil on Jones contract so whos to say they wouldn't pay $18mil of the $28 remaining just to get him out of there.

I would not be opposed to Pierre playing against RHP 75% of the time, Wise 25% against RHP and BA against LHP.

First, $10 over 3 years for Juan Pierre is still too much money, especially in this market. My own personal opinion (based on nothing more than a number that I think sounds good) is that anything more than $5 mil over 3 years out of the pocket of the White Sox is too much.

Second, If Pierre does come here (and I'm not saying he is), then either Wise or BA doesn't make the team, probably Wise. If Lillibridge makes the team, they won't carry more than 4 outfielders.

beasly213
03-20-2009, 11:59 AM
Well, The Dodgers ate $18Mil on Jones contract so whos to say they wouldn't pay $18mil of the $28 remaining just to get him out of there.

I would not be opposed to Pierre playing against RHP 75% of the time, Wise 25% against RHP and BA against LHP.

You answered your own question. If they are already eating $18 mil why would they eat another $18 mil?

oeo
03-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Pierre is terrible. I don't know whats worse, his inability to actually get on base or the fact he wears a jersey and pants that are like 8 sizes too big for him. He looks like hes playing in freaking pajamas.

Unfortunately, our current options are worse.

WhiteSox5187
03-20-2009, 12:12 PM
Unfortunately, our current options are worse.

I think that Owens is about as good as Pierre is at this point in their careers and comes for much less money.

voodoochile
03-20-2009, 12:18 PM
I think that Owens is about as good as Pierre is at this point in their careers and comes for much less money.

Pierre has proven what he can do. Owens is still an unknown - we all hope he could turn into Pierre, but he could just as easily turn into Julio Ramirez.

oeo
03-20-2009, 12:19 PM
I think that Owens is about as good as Pierre is at this point in their careers and comes for much less money.

Pierre is, always has been, and always will be a better crappy hitter than Owens. Plus he's still pretty much automatic at stealing bags, something you can't say about Owens. Also, while Owens seems to always have something wrong with his health, Pierre has been an iron man over the course of his career.

Look, I never said I wanted Pierre. I wish we had other options, but before we start saying so-and-so is terrible, look at what we've currently got. Pierre is better than what we've got. That isn't saying much, but he is.

soxinem1
03-20-2009, 12:31 PM
The only move Kenny needs to announce is that BA is the EVERYDAY CF and that Getz will be given a shot at lead-off.

So much for a youth movement that discusses bringing in a higher-priced version of Owens, a CF who cannot play every day anymore, and another guy who didn't even play last year and is almost 42 years old.

***!!!:angry::angry:

voodoochile
03-20-2009, 12:33 PM
The only move Kenny needs to announce is that BA is the EVERYDAY CF and that Getz will be given a shot at lead-off.

So much for a youth movement that discusses bringing in a higher-prices version of Owens, a CF who cannot play every day anymore, and another guy who didn't even play last year and is almost 42 years old.

***!!!:angry::angry:

If you were Ozzie and KW made that statement, would you be happy?

KW builds the team with Ozzie's input. Ozzie runs the team.

Frater Perdurabo
03-20-2009, 12:39 PM
What if the Dodgers were willing to eat $18 million of the $28 million remaining on Pierre's deal, plus they took MacDougal and his overpriced deal? Is $10 million for Pierre spread over three years still too much under those circumstances?

Obviously for the Dodgers to eat that much cash the Sox would have to send back a nice prospect or two.

Randar68
03-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Take it for what its worth, but Scot Gregor thinks Kenny is gonna pull the trigger to bring in a CF real soon.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1661

He says no to Pierre and Edmonds, but maybe to Lofton and Pods. Not sure how I would feel about this. Lofton is as old as dirt, but did play very well (on our CF standards) in 07. How much could he possibly have left is the real question. Pods on the other hand, Im not too sure about. I love the guy for what he did for us in the past, but Im really not convinced that he will ever repeat what he did back then.
At this point any competition would be welcomed in my opinion, even if that player isnt going to be a starter. Wise started off hot but has showed his true self as of late, Owens has yet to show anything, and Anderson has been decent but still has a lot of holes in his game.

So what would you think of Lofton/Pods, and are there any other names that could be thrown into this mix that are a realistic posibility?

And please dont turn this into another pointless CF debate, we really dont need another 1 of those.

Pods has never been a viable CF'er. Makes zero sense. Makes more sense to play Quentin in CF than to play Pods there.

Lofton on the other hand is usually productive and is still a decent CF option WHEN HEALTHY (which is probably only 50% of the time these days)

NLaloosh
03-20-2009, 12:42 PM
All I can say is this;

If the Sox can make the playoffs in 2008 with Swisher leading off and A.J. batting second then they can certainly do the same with Ramirez and Getz at the top of the order.

And, this way no one has to play out of position and defense isn't compromised with Anderson in CF between two weak defenders.

rdwj
03-20-2009, 12:45 PM
Pods couldn't play center when he was here. What makes anyone think he could play there now?

soxinem1
03-20-2009, 12:46 PM
If you were Ozzie and KW made that statement, would you be happy?

KW builds the team with Ozzie's input. Ozzie runs the team.

This is a fan point of view. I'm sure Ozzie and KW are in cahoots together with their annual quest to find the most-unlikely-CF possibilities available.

Maybe the options discussed should be more than retreads, failures, or guys out of position. Swisher, Griffey, and Mackowiak. Followed by Edmunds, Pierre, Lofton.

That is getting better in CF? I cannot believe you would take that stance!

getonbckthr
03-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Comparing Pierre and Podsednik's numbers, Pierre appears to be a healthy and younger Scott Podsednik

russ99
03-20-2009, 01:00 PM
All I can say is this;

If the Sox can make the playoffs in 2008 with Swisher leading off and A.J. batting second then they can certainly do the same with Ramirez and Getz at the top of the order.


I could make the exact same comment with Owens in CF and leading off.

Worst case in 400+ AB, Owens would hit .250 and .325-330 OBP with 35 SB - which would be better than Swisher last year. All we'd lose is homers, and do we really need 10-15 more homers on this club?

Despite the bashing around here on Owens' defense, I'd say he'd likely play better defensively in CF than Swisher too. Besides, BA would still get plenty of playing time vs. lefties and as a defensive replacement.

Thome25
03-20-2009, 01:03 PM
All I can say is this;

If the Sox can make the playoffs in 2008 with Swisher leading off and A.J. batting second then they can certainly do the same with Ramirez and Getz at the top of the order.

And, this way no one has to play out of position and defense isn't compromised with Anderson in CF between two weak defenders.

They had to scratch and claw their way to the playoffs and almost missed them in 2008. What are the odds of making the playoffs again under similar circumstances? To be honest, I'd have to say not good. Pitching will dictate what happens this season not leadoff hitter.

Edit: When was the last time you heard of a MLB team that made the playoffs (or missed them.) because of their leadoff hitter? (or lack of.) Teams make the playoffs (or miss them.) because of pitching, defense, and pop in their lineups (or lack of one or all of the above.)

voodoochile
03-20-2009, 02:43 PM
This is a fan point of view. I'm sure Ozzie and KW are in cahoots together with their annual quest to find the most-unlikely-CF possibilities available.

Maybe the options discussed should be more than retreads, failures, or guys out of position. Swisher, Griffey, and Mackowiak. Followed by Edmunds, Pierre, Lofton.

That is getting better in CF? I cannot believe you would take that stance!

Do you honestly believe KW told this writer every plan he had and what he was working on in detail?

Got a bridge for you. I own it. It's lovely. Great view of downtown Manhattan and it's barely used. I can let you have it for a song.

voodoochile
03-20-2009, 02:45 PM
They had to scratch and claw their way to the playoffs and almost missed them in 2008. What are the odds of making the playoffs again under similar circumstances? To be honest, I'd have to say not good. Pitching will dictate what happens this season not leadoff hitter.

Edit: When was the last time you heard of a MLB team that made the playoffs (or missed them.) because of their leadoff hitter? (or lack of.) Teams make the playoffs (or miss them.) because of pitching, defense, and pop in their lineups (or lack of one or all of the above.)

After one of their best pitchers freshly back from a stint on the DL tore up his ankle and their best hitter broke his hand punching a bat.

How close do you honestly think it would have been with those two able to play last year? Minnesota's the one who got lucky, not us...

whitesox901
03-20-2009, 02:56 PM
After one of their best pitchers freshly back from a stint on the DL tore up his ankle and their best hitter broke his hand punching a bat.

How close do you honestly think it would have been with those two able to play last year? Minnesota's the one who got lucky, not us...

agreed

Gammons Peter
03-20-2009, 03:04 PM
After one of their best pitchers freshly back from a stint on the DL tore up his ankle and their best hitter broke his hand punching a bat.

How close do you honestly think it would have been with those two able to play last year? Minnesota's the one who got lucky, not us...


One of their best pitchers?? Jose?? Take a look at his numbers from last year... or if you want to throw up...take a look at his numbers from 2007

Foulke You
03-20-2009, 03:07 PM
I have a question about Lofton. What exactly has he been doing baseball wise for the last year and a half? He is going to be 42 years old in May of this year. Did he play in an independent league? I realize Lofton was always a great athlete and if anyone can step in and play, he probably could...however, I question whether a 42 year old can step into camp the last week of Cactus and be ready to play in cold ass Chicago on April 6th if he has been doing nothing since playing for the Tribe in 2007.

That being said, Lofton was still a productive hitter even his last year in 2007 and as an old man, is still probably a better CFer defensively than Wise or Owens. He is a career .299 hitter and his career OBP is .372. He even stole 23 bases in '06 and '07 which isn't too shabby in today's AL. I'd keep an open mind about this move providing Lofton has been staying in shape. He certainly would be no long term solution but might be better than our other left handed CF options for the '09 season.

voodoochile
03-20-2009, 03:16 PM
One of their best pitchers?? Jose?? Take a look at his numbers from last year... or if you want to throw up...take a look at his numbers from 2007

He was injured much of the year and didn't let on until he had tried to pitch through it for a period of time. It was widely reported that Ozzie was upset with Jose for doing so. Jose goes on the DL, comes back, pitches well for 4 or so innings and then tears up his ACL. And yes, regardless of what you believe he was a starter, so by definition one of the best pitchers on the team.

It's Dankerific
03-20-2009, 03:23 PM
Barry Zito and Dontrelle Willis will be happy to hear that being a starter = being one of the best pitchers on the team.

Gammons Peter
03-20-2009, 03:25 PM
He was injured much of the year and didn't let on until he had tried to pitch through it for a period of time. It was widely reported that Ozzie was upset with Jose for doing so. Jose goes on the DL, comes back, pitches well for 4 or so innings and then tears up his ACL. And yes, regardless of what you believe he was a starter, so by definition one of the best pitchers on the team.


funny.


4 innings over two years

Madscout
03-20-2009, 03:32 PM
funny.


4 innings over two yearsReally? You want to quantify that statement, because I bet I won't have to look very hard to fine more innings in those two years that he pitched well. I'll bet you I can find more than 4 innings in 2007 alone that he pitched well.

Gammons Peter
03-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Really? You want to quantify that statement, because I bet I won't have to look very hard to fine more innings in those two years that he pitched well. I'll bet you I can find more than 4 innings in 2007 alone that he pitched well.


Of course you can, But don't tell me he was one of the Sox best pitchers last year, when he was one of their WORST pitchers last year

Sargeant79
03-20-2009, 04:40 PM
Of course you can, But don't tell me he was one of the Sox best pitchers last year, when he was one of their WORST pitchers last year

I don't have time to pull the stats out right now, but I beg to differ with this. He wasn't good for the entire year even when he was playing, but I seem to remember a six week stretch toward the beginning of the year during which he was pitching excellently.

Craig Grebeck
03-20-2009, 06:10 PM
I could make the exact same comment with Owens in CF and leading off.

Worst case in 400+ AB, Owens would hit .250 and .325-330 OBP with 35 SB - which would be better than Swisher last year. All we'd lose is homers, and do we really need 10-15 more homers on this club?

Despite the bashing around here on Owens' defense, I'd say he'd likely play better defensively in CF than Swisher too. Besides, BA would still get plenty of playing time vs. lefties and as a defensive replacement.
I love it!

Who needs home runs?!

SOXSINCE'70
03-20-2009, 06:20 PM
What,no "Jungle" Jim Rivera? Can Chet Lemon still play the outfield?
How about Rudy Law? :D:

Seriously, Kenny, stick with BA. It's time to see if he can
play 5 or 6 days a week already.

NLaloosh
03-20-2009, 06:21 PM
I could make the exact same comment with Owens in CF and leading off.

Worst case in 400+ AB, Owens would hit .250 and .325-330 OBP with 35 SB - which would be better than Swisher last year. All we'd lose is homers, and do we really need 10-15 more homers on this club?

Despite the bashing around here on Owens' defense, I'd say he'd likely play better defensively in CF than Swisher too. Besides, BA would still get plenty of playing time vs. lefties and as a defensive replacement.

Name one team that you even THINK would start Jerry Owens in CF and bat him leadoff. Oh, and I mean major league teams not high school.

NLaloosh
03-20-2009, 06:26 PM
They had to scratch and claw their way to the playoffs and almost missed them in 2008. What are the odds of making the playoffs again under similar circumstances? To be honest, I'd have to say not good. Pitching will dictate what happens this season not leadoff hitter.

Edit: When was the last time you heard of a MLB team that made the playoffs (or missed them.) because of their leadoff hitter? (or lack of.) Teams make the playoffs (or miss them.) because of pitching, defense, and pop in their lineups (or lack of one or all of the above.)

Not sure what point you're making. Are you agreeing with me that the Sox don't need a fast player to leadoff if he can't win the position otherwise? And, that they won't miss the playoffs without one? That pitching is more important ? I agree completely.

Or, are you saying that the Sox likely won't make the playoffs with Ramirez, Getz or Fields or whichever position player leads off? That they need a bad baseball player(inferior to Brian Anderson) at CF so that he can leadoff in order to make the playoffs? I couldn't disagree more.

Tragg
03-20-2009, 06:28 PM
I could make the exact same comment with Owens in CF and leading off.

Worst case in 400+ AB, Owens would hit .250 and .325-330 OBP with 35 SB - which would be better than Swisher last year. All we'd lose is homers, and do we really need 10-15 more homers on this club?
.What you describe is Owens' best case, not worst case. And no, whatever case, it would not be better than Swisher. Swisher had an obp of .332. The year that Owens batted leadoff unabated with zero pressure, he checked in with a OBP of .324
And not only is Owens' toothless .636 OPS much lower than Swisher's .742, it's lower than Anderson's.

And of course power is relevant. Aside from the obvious value of an extra base hit, power opens thing up for hitters-pitchers have to pitch around hitters, which helps avg and walks...all Owens does is slap hit.
It's Owen's skills that aren't that useful - we don't really steals in front of Konerko, Quentin, Dye and Thome.
Couple this with a bad spring, I'd say Owens is ......

It's Dankerific
03-20-2009, 06:37 PM
all Owens does is slap hit.
It's Owen's skills that aren't that useful - we don't really steals in front of Konerko, Quentin, Dye and Thome.
Couple this with a bad spring, I'd say Owens is ......

.... probably going to start way too many games in CF this year.

KenBerryGrab
03-20-2009, 06:43 PM
Marlon Byrd, come on down!

tm1119
03-20-2009, 06:50 PM
Marlon Byrd, come on down!

I would actually take him for the right price, but I think he is staying. Apparently Andruw isnt making the 40 man roster.

Brian26
03-20-2009, 09:09 PM
Lofton quit on this team seven years ago. I can't imagine considering him as an option right now.

gregory18n
03-20-2009, 09:24 PM
i saw that "quitting" comment before and, not living in chicago, i really don't know the story. i love lofton for basketball, as i'm an arizona grad, and i know that he's been good for an awful lot of clubs, as he's always leading off in the world series, and playing well. didn't see him last year, so that's my concern, is he even playing? if so, i'de take him.
i'de also take pierre if the dodgers are absorbing some cost.

Nellie_Fox
03-21-2009, 12:04 AM
What,no "Jungle" Jim Rivera? Can Chet Lemon still play the outfield?
How about Rudy Law? :tealpolice:

i saw that "quitting" comment before and, not living in chicago, i really don't know the story. i love lofton for basketball, as i'm an arizona grad, and i know that he's been good for an awful lot of clubs, as he's always leading off in the world series, and playing well. didn't see him last year, so that's my concern, is he even playing? if so, i'de take him.
i'de also take pierre if the dodgers are absorbing some cost.I know the lack of capitalization is deliberate (although I'll never understand it,) but where do you get "i'de?" It's a contraction of "I would," and is "I'd." There's no "e" in would.

oeo
03-21-2009, 02:32 AM
Of course you can, But don't tell me he was one of the Sox best pitchers last year, when he was one of their WORST pitchers last year

From mid-April to the beginning of June, he was the best pitcher. Then he had injury problems, pitched through them until July, and finally went on the DL. He then tore his achilles in his first game back.

He was pretty damn good when he was healthy, which was only a short amount of time.

Konerko05
03-21-2009, 03:24 AM
Of course you can, But don't tell me he was one of the Sox best pitchers last year, when he was one of their WORST pitchers last year

Well he was the best pitcher in May before he tried pitching through injury.

43 IP
2.09 ERA
28 H
31 SO
8 BB

Just sayin'.

cards press box
03-21-2009, 03:40 AM
He also fits both Williams and Guillen's desires. KW likes goes who other people pay for. Guillen likes fast LH hitters who make contact, steal bases and have experience leading off.

The Dodgers also have no room for him - not to get him 600 PAs. If they could lose half or more of his payroll, they'd benefit from that. And they could use an IF.

It may not happen - but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

I agree. If the Sox and Dodgers could work out the financial details, I could see Juan Pierre leading off for the Sox. However, if the Cardinals discontinue their "Mickey Stanley" experiment* and decide that it would be easier to trade Skip Schumaker for a second baseman than converting an outfielder into a middle infielder at the major league level, then I could also see Schumaker leading off for the Sox.

*In 1968, the Tigers had four top-flight outfielders: Al Kaline, Jim Northrup, Willie Horton and Mickey Stanley. Kaline had missed part of the season due to injury but returned before the end of the season. The Tigers' shortstop in 1968 was Ray Oyler who hit a not so robust .135. Oyler's backup was Dick Tracewski who hit .156. Tiger manager Mayo Smith played Stanley at shortstop in 9 games at the end of the season, even though he had never played the position previously. Stanley played SS for the entire 1968 World Series against the Cardinals, a series that Detroit won 4-3.

Madscout
03-21-2009, 06:41 AM
Of course you can, But don't tell me he was one of the Sox best pitchers last year, when he was one of their WORST pitchers last year
The Sox had 3 starters have great years last year, and one have an ok year. Then there's Jose, who, like we have said, was injured. Sure there were some bad outings, but he kept us in most of the games that he pitched and was lights out in a few. I know plenty of teams that would take that, but admittedly maybe not for Jose's salary.

For ****'s sake, get excited about the guy now, and if it isn't because you think he is going to have a good year, do it because he is PRIMED to have a good year. The guy did anything and everything (legally) in his power to be at camp in shape and ready to go, and his work paid off. He came into came 30 pounds lighter, and in his first start after an achillies injury (one that could have ended most careers), he fans 3 or 4, his catcher says his velocity is back, and he throws from all angles. From my point of view, that's a guy who sets himself up for success and I for one hope he acheives it, if not for the ball club, for himself.

Madscout
03-21-2009, 06:44 AM
:tealpolice:

Long time, no see guys.

white sox bill
03-21-2009, 08:37 AM
:tealpolice:

I know the lack of capitalization is deliberate (although I'll never understand it,) but where do you get "i'de?" It's a contraction of "I would," and is "I'd." There's no "e" in would.

Beware of the Ides of March???

Thome25
03-21-2009, 08:51 AM
After one of their best pitchers freshly back from a stint on the DL tore up his ankle and their best hitter broke his hand punching a bat.

How close do you honestly think it would have been with those two able to play last year? Minnesota's the one who got lucky, not us...

I never said lucky....and they had to scratch and claw their way to that playoff spot did they not? Either way they earned it......no matter what the reason was......WTS it was definitely hard earned and they went the road less travelled.

Thome25
03-21-2009, 08:52 AM
Not sure what point you're making. Are you agreeing with me that the Sox don't need a fast player to leadoff if he can't win the position otherwise? And, that they won't miss the playoffs without one? That pitching is more important ? I agree completely.

Or, are you saying that the Sox likely won't make the playoffs with Ramirez, Getz or Fields or whichever position player leads off? That they need a bad baseball player(inferior to Brian Anderson) at CF so that he can leadoff in order to make the playoffs? I couldn't disagree more.

I was trying to say that leadoff hitter wasn't a factor last year (or any year for that matter.) and won't be a factor this year either. Teams don't miss or make the playoffs because of their leadoff hitter. Pitching is what gets a team there so leadoff hitter is moot.

jabrch
03-21-2009, 09:02 AM
I was trying to say that leadoff hitter wasn't a factor last year (or any year for that matter.) and won't be a factor this year either. Teams don't miss or make the playoffs because of their leadoff hitter. Pitching is what gets a team there so leadoff hitter is moot.

You need to be good in all aspects of the game to win 90+ games and make the playoffs. One dimensional teams usually don't win much.

russ99
03-21-2009, 09:05 AM
What you describe is Owens' best case, not worst case. And no, whatever case, it would not be better than Swisher. Swisher had an obp of .332. The year that Owens batted leadoff unabated with zero pressure, he checked in with a OBP of .324
And not only is Owens' toothless .636 OPS much lower than Swisher's .742, it's lower than Anderson's.

And of course power is relevant. Aside from the obvious value of an extra base hit, power opens thing up for hitters-pitchers have to pitch around hitters, which helps avg and walks...all Owens does is slap hit.
It's Owen's skills that aren't that useful - we don't really steals in front of Konerko, Quentin, Dye and Thome.
Couple this with a bad spring, I'd say Owens is ......

Best case, worst case, that's a matter of opinion. But what I do know is that he beat those numbers for us in 2007 in the majors for us in a half season. so it's not a stretch to expect that again, with the possibility of some improvement.

OPS - that same tired reasoning again? And how many leadoff guys around the league really have power? Power is nice at the leadoff spot, but not necessary. As long as Owens can get on base, who really cares if he's a slap hitter or not.

And the "don't need steals" argument is equally tired. Don't know if you realize it but we had our most successful season in 94 years with a base-stealing slap hitter leading off.

There are plenty of guys around the league who are slap hitters and successful, and just beacuse you want a 16-inch softball team full of sluggers on the Sox doesn't discount that type of player's viability on the team, as long as he can do the job expected of him.

BTW - you'd see how many teams would love a guy like Owens, if the Sox somehow stupidly waive him. There's a reason Kenny hasn't been able to get a leadoff hitter for 2-3 years running. Those guys are in very short supply. Not to say Owens is to the level of the top 50% of leadoff guys in the league, but he has the potential.

tick53
03-21-2009, 11:01 AM
Lofton quit on this team seven years ago. I can't imagine considering him as an option right now.

Exactly! When Lofton was here before, he was always dogging it in the outfield. I wasn't crazy about him then and I'm sure not wanting him here now especially a much older Kenny Lofton.

As for Pierre and Pods, I nix this move as well. We have a number one draft pick named Brian Anderson who is going to seed on the bench. I believe in my heart that if given his chance, Brian could be our solid centerfielder for years to come.

Red Barchetta
03-21-2009, 11:56 AM
The real issue is that we don't have a true lead-off hitter. The question, IMO, is not about CF as I think Brian Anderson could be considered among the best defensive center fielders in the league if he would play every day.

I agree that Anderson does not show the discipline to bat leadoff or anywhere near the top/heart of the order. However if we had another option at lead-off, I would love for him to bat 8th or 9th and just play strong defense. His glove would easily make up for the .20 point swing in batting average.

chunk
03-21-2009, 01:12 PM
Best case, worst case, that's a matter of opinion. But what I do know is that he beat those numbers for us in 2007 in the majors for us in a half season. so it's not a stretch to expect that again, with the possibility of some improvement.

OPS - that same tired reasoning again? And how many leadoff guys around the league really have power? Power is nice at the leadoff spot, but not necessary. As long as Owens can get on base, who really cares if he's a slap hitter or not.

And the "don't need steals" argument is equally tired. Don't know if you realize it but we had our most successful season in 94 years with a base-stealing slap hitter leading off.

There are plenty of guys around the league who are slap hitters and successful, and just beacuse you want a 16-inch softball team full of sluggers on the Sox doesn't discount that type of player's viability on the team, as long as he can do the job expected of him.

BTW - you'd see how many teams would love a guy like Owens, if the Sox somehow stupidly waive him. There's a reason Kenny hasn't been able to get a leadoff hitter for 2-3 years running. Those guys are in very short supply. Not to say Owens is to the level of the top 50% of leadoff guys in the league, but he has the potential.

At this point, BA's spring training OBP is much higher than Owens. Not to mention Owens is now, what, 1 for 4 in SB attempts?

Also, we were a WS champ in 05 because we had a fluke career year out of pretty much every member of the pitching staff. Especially the bullpen. There really is no other reason. We had a mediocre offense. We won because of pitching.

Brian26
03-21-2009, 01:49 PM
Also, we were a WS champ in 05 because we had a fluke career year out of pretty much every member of the pitching staff. Especially the bullpen.

Lots wrong with this statement. Buehrle's career year was probably 2002, although he was outstanding in 04 also. Garland had a career-type year, but I'm not sure it was a fluke since he matched it in 2006. Contreras only had half a great season, but again he matched it in the first half of 06.

The three guys I will agree with you 100% on: Politte, Cotts and throw in Hermanson's first four months before he got hurt.

NLaloosh
03-21-2009, 01:50 PM
And, take a look at Owens runs produced this spring and all throut his career. The guy just doesn't produce runs in a any way. Not only does he have zero power and can't knock in any runs but he also has never scored a lot of runs anywhere he has ever played.

And, isn't scoring runs the whole point?

voodoochile
03-21-2009, 01:50 PM
At this point, BA's spring training OBP is much higher than Owens. Not to mention Owens is now, what, 1 for 4 in SB attempts?

Also, we were a WS champ in 05 because we had a fluke career year out of pretty much every member of the pitching staff. Especially the bullpen. There really is no other reason. We had a mediocre offense. We won because of pitching.

One can only hope that Ozzie and Kenny don't make any decisions based on ST stats but on the things they observe about the players they are evaluating. ST stats are pretty much meaningless as a good chunk of them are accumumlated off of pitchers who won't make the big league club or who are pitching where they won't be come the regular season (like Broadway closing a game).

None of these guys deserves to have the every day job handed to them until they prove they can hit both types of pitchers effectively during the season. If none of them can do that, then a platoon is in order and whether that's Wise or Owens I'll leave to Ozzie and Kenny to figure out. BA will be on the team and will definitely start against LHP (at least I assume so). He deserves that much at least.

Lillian
03-22-2009, 07:32 AM
This may be the wrong thread for the following post, but I think that Juan Pierre may be a good fit for the Sox. We've discussed this before, but there are a few points that may not have been made.

Look, Thome should not be playing every day. He's 39 and really has never been much of a hitter vs. Lefties in his career. His lifetime batting average is only .240 and his OBP is .342 vs. lefties, and he's only averaged about 20 homers per 500 at bats. At his age that's not good enough to merit the extra playing time.

Juan Pierre is a career .303 hitter vs. lefties, with a .348 OBP. Moreover, even though it's normally harder to steal off lefties, his career success ratio on stolen bases is actually higher vs. lefties!

If Pierre could DH vs. lefties, now you can play Anderson in center on those days and you improve both speed and defense.
The big question is what happens vs. righties. Although Pierre's defense is not very good because of his arm, he does have pretty good range. His arm isn't much worse than Owens.

Ozzie and Pierre have always had a very good relationship, going back to Ozzie's days with the Marlins. Pierre has been given permission to try to find a team with which the Dodgers could negotiate a trade.
The issue of money may not be too great of an obstacle, as there are only 3 years and $28.5 million remaining. If the Dodgers could help with some salary relief, he could be a decent value at around $5 million per year. Considering the need, it may be worth it. That is the only serious hole that I see on this team.

dickallen15
03-22-2009, 08:44 AM
This may be the wrong thread for the following post, but I think that Juan Pierre may be a good fit for the Sox. We've discussed this before, but there are a few points that may not have been made.

Look, Thome should not be playing every day. He's 39 and really has never been much of a hitter vs. Lefties in his career. His lifetime batting average is only .240 and his OBP is .342 vs. lefties, and he's only averaged about 20 homers per 500 at bats. At his age that's not good enough to merit the extra playing time.

Juan Pierre is a career .303 hitter vs. lefties, with a .348 OBP. Moreover, even though it's normally harder to steal off lefties, his career success ratio on stolen bases is actually higher vs. lefties!



If Pierre could DH vs. lefties, now you can play Anderson in center on those days and you improve both speed and defense.
The big question is what happens vs. righties. Although Pierre's defense is not very good because of his arm, he does have pretty good range. His arm isn't much worse than Owens.

Ozzie and Pierre have always had a very good relationship, going back to Ozzie's days with the Marlins. Pierre has been given permission to try to find a team with which the Dodgers could negotiate a trade.
The issue of money may not be too great of an obstacle, as there are only 3 years and $28.5 million remaining. If the Dodgers could help with some salary relief, he could be a decent value at around $5 million per year. Considering the need, it may be worth it. That is the only serious hole that I see on this team.Juan Pierre makes almost $10 million a year. You said Thome shouldn't be playing against lefties because his OBP is .342 against them. You want to pay Juan Pierre all that money, remember he throws like he has 2 dislocated shoulders, and he has a career OBP of .346, this is for a leadoff guy, at least Thome will score some runners by creating souvenirs. Pierre also hasn't had an OBP over .331 since 2004. He's not the answer. The Sox already have a guy who puts up a pretty good average with a low OBP in Ramirez. Making him a leadoff hitter before taking on any of Pierre's contract makes more sense IMO.

Lillian
03-22-2009, 10:39 AM
Juan Pierre makes almost $10 million a year. You said Thome shouldn't be playing against lefties because his OBP is .342 against them. You want to pay Juan Pierre all that money, remember he throws like he has 2 dislocated shoulders, and he has a career OBP of .346, this is for a leadoff guy, at least Thome will score some runners by creating souvenirs. Pierre also hasn't had an OBP over .331 since 2004. He's not the answer. The Sox already have a guy who puts up a pretty good average with a low OBP in Ramirez. Making him a leadoff hitter before taking on any of Pierre's contract makes more sense IMO.

I agree with your concerns about the money, and Pierre's weak arm, as I stated in my post. Let's put those two factors aside for a moment. Remember, first of all, I assumed some salary help from the Dodgers, and secondly I'm talking about his value as a DH versus lefties.
Yes, versus lefties, I would prefer Pierre leading off as a DH, with Anderson in center, and Thome as a left handed pinch hitter coming off the bench.
Versus lefties, Pierre's value as a stolen base threat leading off at roughly the same OBP as Thome, with a better batting average and much lower strike out rate, out weighs the 20 home run per 500 at bat rate of Thome.
The Sox have plenty of power, but speed and a lead off hitter are clearly worth replacing Thome's production vs. lefties.

The idea of Ramirez as a lead off hitter remains an intriguing possibility, however in spite of his speed, he has yet to demonstrate true base stealing prowess. Ozzie has stated clearly that he likes Alexei's bat further down in the order.

DeepFriedSnicker
03-22-2009, 11:40 AM
How about Gary Matthews Jr.? He is looking good in spring training and is more than capable of handling CF. He is currently the 4th or 5th outfielder with the Angels behind Hunter, Abreu, Rivera and Vladimir Guerreroand he wants more playing time. Supposedly the Angels are shopping him. I would like to see him in a White Sox uni, but what would we have to give up to get him?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels-fyi16-2009mar16,0,864563.story?track=rss

Not sure if it clears up the leadoff situation, but he has played that role before and does have the speed we are looking for. It also seems like a KW under the radar type move as no one is talking about it.

Craig Grebeck
03-22-2009, 12:52 PM
How about Gary Matthews Jr.? He is looking good in spring training and is more than capable of handling CF. He is currently the 4th or 5th outfielder with the Angels behind Hunter, Abreu, Rivera and Vladimir Guerreroand he wants more playing time. Supposedly the Angels are shopping him. I would like to see him in a White Sox uni, but what would we have to give up to get him?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels-fyi16-2009mar16,0,864563.story?track=rss

Not sure if it clears up the leadoff situation, but he has played that role before and does have the speed we are looking for. It also seems like a KW under the radar type move as no one is talking about it.
No one is talking about it because it's a terrible idea.

Bill Naharodny
03-22-2009, 01:08 PM
No one is talking about it because it's a terrible idea.

Glad you were able to weigh in with such a thoughtful, well-reasoned response.

(Not that there isn't one, of course. But, in your dismissive fashion, you've chosen to not articulate it.)

Craig Grebeck
03-22-2009, 01:09 PM
Glad you were able to weigh in with such a thoughtful, well-reasoned response.

(Not that there isn't one, of course. But, in your dismissive fashion, you've chosen to not articulate it.)
Mea culpa. It is a terrible idea to acquire a below average, declining, severely overpaid, fourth outfielder. There.

Bill Naharodny
03-22-2009, 01:17 PM
Mea culpa. It is a terrible idea to acquire a below average, declining, severely overpaid, fourth outfielder. There.

Thanks. You might have added "possible PED user."

I will say, though, that the real problem with guys like Matthews and Pierre is how they're perceived because of their cost. If they wouldn't require the money that they're owed (due to their present teams eating substantial portions of their salaries), they'd probably look quite a bit better. That's particularly the case with Pierre, who I still believe has some skills that would help this team, but not at anything close to the remainder on his contract.

cards press box
03-22-2009, 01:29 PM
How about Gary Matthews Jr.? He is looking good in spring training and is more than capable of handling CF. He is currently the 4th or 5th outfielder with the Angels behind Hunter, Abreu, Rivera and Vladimir Guerreroand he wants more playing time. Supposedly the Angels are shopping him. I would like to see him in a White Sox uni, but what would we have to give up to get him?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels-fyi16-2009mar16,0,864563.story?track=rss

Not sure if it clears up the leadoff situation, but he has played that role before and does have the speed we are looking for. It also seems like a KW under the radar type move as no one is talking about it.

According to the L.A. Times' story, Matthews is no more than a 5th outfielder. What does that make Reggie Willits?

Willits is 27 and will turn 28 this May. In his minor league career, Willits hit .304 with a .397 OBP and stole a lot of bases. In 2007, the one year that Willits had extensive playing time in the majors, he had 430 AB's, hit .293 with a .379 OBP and stole 27 bases. Willits is a switch hitter, too.

Matthews is a good defensive outfielder but does not solve the Sox' search for a leadoff man. Willits very possibly could be that leadoff hitter. If the Sox are looking at any spare Angel outfielder, I hope it is Willits.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/willire03.shtml

Tragg
03-22-2009, 01:35 PM
I would like to see him in a White Sox uni, but what would we have to give up to get him?
. In this economy, the Angels would probably have to add a top prospect, a B prospect and pay at least one-half of his salary, and somebody might take him off their hands.

sox1970
03-22-2009, 01:58 PM
http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/1371503126

:scratch:

The Spaz
03-22-2009, 02:00 PM
http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/1371503126

:scratch:

I was just going to post this. Oh boy what could it be?:gulp:

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 02:06 PM
Does this announcement warrant a Clubhouse thread?

Exciting.

Sockinchisox
03-22-2009, 02:07 PM
Cowley saying Pierre might be coming here.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 02:09 PM
Oh boy indeed.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 02:10 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/index.html

Cowley says that Rick Hahn thinks we are going to be disappointed by the big news, and his sources stink.

The Spaz
03-22-2009, 02:14 PM
It can't be Lofton can it?:dtroll::o::whiner:

GoGoCrede
03-22-2009, 02:22 PM
Per Cowley, 4 year contract extension for Floyd.

Sockinchisox
03-22-2009, 02:23 PM
Extension for Floyd, 4 yrs 15.5 mil.

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 02:27 PM
Posted this in the clubhouse.

The Spaz
03-22-2009, 02:27 PM
Very Nice!!

DirtySox
03-22-2009, 03:17 PM
This thread lives!

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1677

There is buzz that a trade was made for a leadoff hitter. Speculation? We will see.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 03:29 PM
This thread lives!

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1677

There is buzz that a trade was made for a leadoff hitter? Speculation? We will see.

One would think it would be Pierre.

sox1970
03-22-2009, 03:33 PM
This thread lives!

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1677

There is buzz that a trade was made for a leadoff hitter. Speculation? We will see.

It's the same bull Cowley was spewing. Pierre isn't coming here.

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 03:37 PM
It's the same bull Cowley was spewing. Pierre isn't coming here.

Yeah, but Scott Gregor has an impeccable reputation as a journalist. That doesn't mean he can't be wrong, but he's not someone who stirs up controversy, either.

sox1970
03-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Yeah, but Scott Gregor has an impeccable reputation as a journalist. That doesn't mean he can't be wrong, but he's not someone who stirs up controversy, either.

Pierre is standing in LF playing for the Dodgers today.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Pierre is standing in LF playing for the Dodgers today.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/

My point was that if the rumor turned out to be true - if the Sox had acquired a leadoff hitter - that Pierre was the most likely acquisition. Why? Because there simply aren't any other leadoff hitters out there who might be available, other than perhaps Reggie Willits. And the Angels seem never to be willing to deal their players. The Dodgers, OTOH, want to unload Pierre.

Lillian
03-22-2009, 04:34 PM
Could there be a trade involving Konerko for a lead off guy?
He's having a very good Spring and that may have rekindled some interest. Figgins? Not that we haven't heard that a million times!

Meanwhile, Betemit is now leading the team in homers and RBI's, and could play First. "I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n."

Jjav829
03-22-2009, 04:38 PM
This thread lives!

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1677

There is buzz that a trade was made for a leadoff hitter. Speculation? We will see.

Sox trade coming? (http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1677)

Posted by scotgreg on Sun, 03/22/2009 - 14:13

Sox lock up Floyd; trade Stewart (http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1678)

Posted by scotgreg on Sun, 03/22/2009 - 14:40
PHOENIX _ And the trade is…catcher Chris Stewart to the New York Yankees for a player to be named later.
How is that for a blockbuster?

Note the time. His source was probably Cowley. Nothing to see here.

sunofgold
03-22-2009, 05:08 PM
Barring any trade, Getz should be leading off b/c he has done it in the past. BA should be our starting outfielder and should be batting ninth.

If Getz doesn't get the job done, then probably have no choice but to move Ramirez up to the leadoff spot. Really don't want to do that. If Getz does an adequate job of getting on base, this lineup rocks!

Don't have to trade for a leadoff guy right away. Unless there is a good deal out there.

My lineup:

Getz 2B
Pierzynski C
Quentin LF
Dye RF
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Ramirez SS
Fields 3B
Anderson CF

Frater Perdurabo
03-22-2009, 05:17 PM
Could there be a trade involving Konerko for a lead off guy?
He's having a very good Spring and that may have rekindled some interest. Figgins? Not that we haven't heard that a million times!

Meanwhile, Betemit is now leading the team in homers and RBI's, and could play First. "I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n."

:bandance:

Craig Grebeck
03-22-2009, 05:18 PM
Could there be a trade involving Konerko for a lead off guy?
He's having a very good Spring and that may have rekindled some interest. Figgins? Not that we haven't heard that a million times!

Meanwhile, Betemit is now leading the team in homers and RBI's, and could play First. "I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n."
Yeah that's a terrible idea. Wilson Betemit?!

DeepFriedSnicker
03-22-2009, 06:23 PM
OK, thank you for shooting down that Gary Matthews idea. After looking at his numbers I don't know what the hell I was thinking.

I really like that Reggie Willits idea. Bruce Levine mentioned someone that could be had for really cheap as well from San Diego yesterday morning. He mentioned Jody Gerut and stated he plays a very good defensive CF, has speed, and a good obp. He also mentioned that he is fully healthy now and that was his biggest problem in previous years. Any thoughts on Jody Gerut?

NLaloosh
03-23-2009, 03:00 AM
The Sox traded for Nick Swisher.:tongue:

I'm pretty well convinced that there is no trade coming.

whitesox901
03-23-2009, 03:31 AM
OK, thank you for shooting down that Gary Matthews idea. After looking at his numbers I don't know what the hell I was thinking.

I really like that Reggie Willits idea. Bruce Levine mentioned someone that could be had for really cheap as well from San Diego yesterday morning. He mentioned Jody Gerut and stated he plays a very good defensive CF, has speed, and a good obp. He also mentioned that he is fully healthy now and that was his biggest problem in previous years. Any thoughts on Jody Gerut?

I always pondered that idea too, IIRC he was leading off for San Diego for some time

Foulke You
03-23-2009, 10:43 AM
I always pondered that idea too, IIRC he was leading off for San Diego for some time
I remember Gerut when he was a rising star in the Indians organization. As a previous poster pointed out, he has never been able to stay healthy.

Thome25
03-23-2009, 11:11 AM
PLEASE OH PLEASE Lord let us hear some news about the Southside Chicago Baseball Club (aka White Sox.) acquiring a player who can play CF and leadoff so we don't have to watch the garbage they're trying to put out there. *Crosses Fingers*........*Puts hands together and prays*

Dice
03-23-2009, 11:26 AM
I seriously doubt that the Sox will acquire Pierre. Just for the simple fact that he has an albatross contract. Unless, the Dodger are willing to pay some of his salary. From a baseball perspective, it would be nice to have a guy like Pierre on the team. BUT in regards to finances, I don't see it happening.

NLaloosh
03-23-2009, 12:09 PM
There's really no viable player out there for the Sox to acquire which is why they haven't.

The Sox are not going to spend big bucks on anybody but if they did it would have to be someone that is a clear upgrade over what we have.

That excludes Juan Pierre or Johnny Damon. What CFers that are also inexpensive and are also excellent lead-off hitters are available?

Probably 0. The only remote possibilty that comes to mind that might work for the Sox would be Chone Figgins and I don't think he's being shopped anyway.

If Kenny could've just picked up this person at any time then he would already be here.

Zisk77
03-23-2009, 12:19 PM
There's really no viable player out there for the Sox to acquire which is why they haven't.

The Sox are not going to spend big bucks on anybody but if they did it would have to be someone that is a clear upgrade over what we have.

That excludes Juan Pierre or Johnny Damon. What CFers that are also inexpensive and are also excellent lead-off hitters are available?

Probably 0. The only remote possibilty that comes to mind that might work for the Sox would be Chone Figgins and I don't think he's being shopped anyway.

If Kenny could've just picked up this person at any time then he would already be here.


Maybe they think outside the box and try to acquire a young player with potential and try to convert him to CF such as Mark Teahen.

I know he was 3b, and corner of and not a traditional leadoff hitter. Might be a good short term (stop gap) move. He can run, and throw, a decent hitter with potential to get better and a good athlete. Later he can be moved to corner Of, 3b, 1b, or traded.

russ99
03-23-2009, 12:31 PM
Maybe they think outside the box and try to acquire a young player with potential and try to convert him to CF such as Mark Teahen.

I know he was 3b, and corner of and not a traditional leadoff hitter. Might be a good short term (stop gap) move. He can run, and throw, a decent hitter with potential to get better and a good athlete. Later he can be moved to corner Of, 3b, 1b, or traded.

Right now, I seriously doubt anything is going to happen with solid veteran players, since teams are getting ready for the season and wouldn't want to shake things up.

The only guys we could get are those who won't make their team's MLB squad and are out of options, like when we got Thornton for Borchard. Here's the current unofficial list (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/out-of-options.html)

But realistically, the Sox will most likely go with what they have and re-assess as some point into the season. Maybe we could get Figgins (or another soon-to-be FA) at the deadline.

jabrch
03-23-2009, 12:32 PM
Pierre is standing in LF playing for the Dodgers today.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/


But he won't be the starting LF there come OD. He won't be the starting CF either. He will be competing with Delwyn Young and Jason Repko for a job as the 4th or 5th OF.

I can't see how LA wouldn't benefit from moving him, eating the salary, and getting a decent prospect which I imagine they could in today's market if they were paying for a big chunk of that deal. They can afford to buy out their mistake and turn it into a potential long term asset instead of keeping it on the books as a liability.

Heffalump
03-23-2009, 01:24 PM
Maybe they think outside the box and try to acquire a young player with potential and try to convert him to CF such as Mark Teahen.

I know he was 3b, and corner of and not a traditional leadoff hitter. Might be a good short term (stop gap) move. He can run, and throw, a decent hitter with potential to get better and a good athlete. Later he can be moved to corner Of, 3b, 1b, or traded.

Mark Teahan in center? Can you say Rob Mack. from a few years ago?

No thanks!

Hell, if BA can hit .230 with 15 hrs and play GG caliber defense during his platoon role, I will be overjoyed. If the Sox are still in it come pennant race time, i have faith that KW wil make a move.

I love how everyone was cursing guys like Pierre just a few months ago. Now we are begging for him? Relax, we will win based on how our pitching staff does - we will have enough offense.

Thome25
03-23-2009, 01:29 PM
Mark Teahan in center? Can you say Rob Mack. from a few years ago?

No thanks!

Hell, if BA can hit .230 with 15 hrs and play GG caliber defense during his platoon role, I will be overjoyed. If the Sox are still in it come pennant race time, i have faith that KW wil make a move.

I love how everyone was cursing guys like Pierre just a few months ago. Now we are begging for him? Relax, we will win based on how our pitching staff does - we will have enough offense.

I see what you're saying and I agre with most of it. The pitching is and always be the difference maker. All you need is 1 or 2 runs to win a game if you have outstanding pitching (2005 anyone?) and the Sox offense is more than capable of doing that.

WTS you still don't want an automatic out like BA at the top of your order. Pierre isn't the answer either and I'm not sure who is out there that is the answer.

NLaloosh
03-23-2009, 01:59 PM
So, trade talent so that Mark Teahen would be the CFer and leadoff hitter?

OK. Yeah, that's better than any other option the Sox have.

Juan Pierre? Give me a break. Even if the Sox could get him for free(meaning no money or talent) he wouldn't be a better option than what they have.

Firstly, his OBP since 2004 has been .328. Secondly, he's worse in CF than Anderson, Owens or Wise. Lastly, he's aging and can't hit.

Does anyone have any worse ideas?

Heffalump
03-23-2009, 02:37 PM
So, trade talent so that Mark Teahen would be the CFer and leadoff hitter?

OK. Yeah, that's better than any other option the Sox have.

Juan Pierre? Give me a break. Even if the Sox could get him for free(meaning no money or talent) he wouldn't be a better option than what they have.

Firstly, his OBP since 2004 has been .328. Secondly, he's worse in CF than Anderson, Owens or Wise. Lastly, he's aging and can't hit.

Does anyone have any worse ideas?

That's it!....I will play center!

Where's my glove?

gr8mexico
03-23-2009, 07:28 PM
What would it take to get Carl Crawford?
The Rays have plenty of outfielders

Frater Perdurabo
03-23-2009, 10:08 PM
What would it take to get Carl Crawford?
The Rays have plenty of outfielders

Probably Jon Danks. :(:

tm1119
03-23-2009, 10:24 PM
Probably Jon Danks. :(:

Probably more like Beckham. Rays are set on pitching for the next 10 years.

Tragg
03-23-2009, 11:38 PM
I can't see how LA wouldn't benefit from moving him, eating the salary, and getting a decent prospect which I imagine they could in today's market if they were paying for a big chunk of that deal. .
Doubtful - why would anyone give a good prospect for a declining slap hitter who plays poor D.

Frater Perdurabo
03-24-2009, 07:06 AM
Probably more like Beckham. Rays are set on pitching for the next 10 years.

Interesting proposition. I'd have to think about it, but I might actually trade Beckham for Crawford.

JohnTucker0814
03-24-2009, 07:32 AM
Interesting proposition. I'd have to think about it, but I might actually trade Beckham for Crawford.

You are nuts!!!

cws05champ
03-24-2009, 08:49 AM
Probably more like Beckham. Rays are set on pitching for the next 10 years.

Nobody is set at pitching for the next 10 years!!! There's these things called injuries and flame outs.

Interesting proposition. I'd have to think about it, but I might actually trade Beckham for Crawford.

As Kramer would say " That's Kooky talk". First off Beckham can't be traded yet....and why would the Sox trade what looks to be an infield cornerstone for 10+ years for a corner OF(yes he's a corner OF) who has probabaly peaked and is starting to decline (only .273/.319/.400 in 2008).

Thome25
03-24-2009, 10:47 AM
Looks like we'll probably have to deal with BA, Fields, Owens, or Wise at leadoff. Hopefully it's Getz or Ramirez.

thedudeabides
03-24-2009, 11:09 AM
Interesting proposition. I'd have to think about it, but I might actually trade Beckham for Crawford.

:o:

Finding a guy with Beckham's hitting potential that can play, at a minimum league average shortstop, is like finding the holy grail. You do not trade him for an average left fielder.

tm1119
03-24-2009, 12:02 PM
:o:

Finding a guy with Beckham's hitting potential that can play, at a minimum league average shortstop, is like finding the holy grail. You do not trade him for an average left fielder.

Carl Crawford is average? Come on how much more biased can you get? The guy has multiple seasons of .300+ AVG, 10+hr, 75+ RBI's, with 50+ steals. Name me 10 guys in the entire MLB that are capable of doing that.

And can we please wait for Beckham to actually play an MLB game before we call him things such as the "holy grail"?

munchman33
03-24-2009, 03:30 PM
:o:

Finding a guy with Beckham's hitting potential that can play, at a minimum league average shortstop, is like finding the holy grail. You do not trade him for an average left fielder.

I guarantee you if you offer Beckham for Crawford straight up you'd get laughed at.

In fact, put Crawford on any of the other teams and offer Beckham straight up and you still get laughed at.

In FACT, take Beckham from the Sox, put Crawford on the Sox, and offer that trade straight. That way, you can get Kenny Williams to laugh at you.

I understand people don't completely appreciate what Crawford brings, but to think of him as anything other than an extremely above average player with a low salary is blatantly biased and unfounded.

thedudeabides
03-24-2009, 04:06 PM
Carl Crawford is average? Come on how much more biased can you get? The guy has multiple seasons of .300+ AVG, 10+hr, 75+ RBI's, with 50+ steals. Name me 10 guys in the entire MLB that are capable of doing that.

And can we please wait for Beckham to actually play an MLB game before we call him things such as the "holy grail"?

No, because there aren't 10 guys in the leage that average 50 steals, but his production isn't much more than average as a left fielder. He can't play center and doesn't want to lead off.

If you read my post, I said that if Beckham reaches his hitting potential, with the ability to play a good shortstop, then you have found the holy grail.

If he keeps up his pace, he will be a top 10 prospect in all of baseball next year. I wouldn't trade him for Carl Crawford, who put up a line of .273/.319/.400 last year, with 25 stolen bases.

I'm not saying Carl Crawford isn't good, but some here overrate him, and at this time I wouldn't trade Bechkam for him.

russ99
03-25-2009, 02:48 PM
Hmmm... The Yankees are interested in dealing Melky Cabrera, as he's out of options too.

Linky (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090325&content_id=4064588&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb) on MLB.com mentions the Yanks source said the Sox were a perfect fit. Not sure what we'd give up, plus Melky has his own issues.

RockJock07
03-25-2009, 09:49 PM
:o:

Finding a guy with Beckham's hitting potential that can play, at a minimum league average shortstop, is like finding the holy grail. You do not trade him for an average left fielder.

I'd probably trade Beckham for Upton if it were possible. I'd take CC too however I would want the CC from 2-3 years ago.

A trade seems likely only for the fact that stories keep coming up. The Yankees want Cabrera out which is no secret because he would have been dealt to the Brewers for Hall and Cameron if Cashman were such a d-bag to Doug Melvin.

I would take a chance on Cabrera, he seems like the ideal change of scenery guy to me. Not sure what you give the Yankees back that they actually want.

whitesox901
03-25-2009, 11:01 PM
I don't think I would want any big trades, I like the team we have now, and I like the prospects we have, just IMO though.