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View Full Version : Who Should Lead Off?


Frater Perdurabo
03-18-2009, 11:18 PM
The Quentin leading off thread has generated a lot of debate. Let's put it to a vote.

BleacherBandit
03-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Paulie! Paulie! Paulie! Paulie!

+1

johnr1note
03-18-2009, 11:36 PM
Beckham's not on your list.

SOXfnNlansing
03-18-2009, 11:36 PM
I voted for Wise; since we don't have a real lead off hitter what does it matter?

whitesox901
03-18-2009, 11:37 PM
South Paw

parlaycard
03-18-2009, 11:43 PM
Anyone voting for Owens should be automatically banned from this board

jabrch
03-19-2009, 12:22 AM
Anyone voting for Owens should be automatically banned from this board

6 posts...and you are deciding who should stay and go?

Chrisaway
03-19-2009, 01:29 AM
Getz, he's earned it.

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 01:44 AM
man, seeing them all lined up like that.. :o:
In all seriousness, Getz has had the best contact numbers, and since we need to get the guy on base, Getz makes sense.

But it would sure be nice to get all that contact-iness to advance some runners that are already on base from the two hole.

Wise and Owens are competing for who can be worse these past few games. Anderson isn't a leadoff hitter by any stretch of the imagination, and how crazy might it be that we bat AJ first? Lillibridge has not impressed me, AT ALL.

So, since I can't have Brian Roberts, I'm going with Southpaw

HomeFish
03-19-2009, 02:05 AM
If the pitcher walks up to the plate and bites the batter, that's called as a HBP, right? If so, churros.

BadBobbyJenks
03-19-2009, 03:23 AM
Anyone voting for Owens should be automatically banned from this board


I like this guy and I take it you are a gambler as well?

whitesox4eva
03-19-2009, 06:53 AM
where is floyd XD 1 for 1, BB, 2 runs cmon XDDDD

WSox597
03-19-2009, 07:22 AM
where is floyd XD 1 for 1, BB, 2 runs cmon XDDDD

This calls for a Peter Gabriel quote:

"Strange is your language, and I have no decoder. Why don't you make your intentions clear?"

:D:

Of that mix, I'd have to go with Southpaw as well.

Bucky F. Dent
03-19-2009, 08:41 AM
I'll do it!:)

Marqhead
03-19-2009, 08:57 AM
Assuming Getz takes the starting 2B spot, I say give him the first shot.

Carolina Kenny
03-19-2009, 09:02 AM
The Zen reply is that we have no lead off hitter, so they are all lead off hitters.

Law11
03-19-2009, 09:22 AM
I voted BA but this will be a revolving thing this year much as it was last year.
Getz? Ozzie is on record as saying he doesnt want to put that kind of pressure on a rookie who who at some point will hit a slump and then hear it from all angles.

I think BA has the mentality to do the job as a leadoff hitter as does owens but neither guy is going to be the type of guy you really want at the leadoff spot. They just dont have a track record of getting on base or going deep enough into counts for this to work well.

Look for Oz to make this an revolving door and go with who's hot rather than plant a guy there for the season.

HawkDJ
03-19-2009, 09:30 AM
Oh god, we're screwed.

sox1970
03-19-2009, 09:39 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Getz starts getting some game leading off starting... oh I don't know....today.

I think he can do it, but Ozzie hasn't given him that opportunity yet.

DumpJerry
03-19-2009, 09:49 AM
:hawk
Come on, Southpaw! Come on!

beasly213
03-19-2009, 09:52 AM
I'll go with Getz in the leadoff spot. But there are a few weeks left in S/T so we'll see. But if the season started tomorrow you would have to give it to Getz.

My lineup for the opener.

1. Getz- 2B
2. AJ- C
3. TCQ -LF
4. JD - RF
5. Thome - DH
6. Konerko - 1B
7. TCM - SS
8. Fields - 3B
9. Anderson - CF

Not a bad lineup at all now that I look at it.

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 10:00 AM
I'll go with Getz in the leadoff spot. But there are a few weeks left in S/T so we'll see. But if the season started tomorrow you would have to give it to Getz.

My lineup for the opener.

1. Getz- 2B
2. AJ- C
3. TCQ -LF
4. JD - RF
5. Thome - DH
6. Konerko - 1B
7. TCM - SS
8. Fields - 3B
9. Anderson - CF

Not a bad lineup at all now that I look at it.


Not bad. I also think BA has earned the CF spot, just on defense alone. As long as we aren't obsessed with CFer MUST also be the leadoff guy, this could work.

I thought I heard somewhere that they might be hesitant leading Getz off, but hey, if he gets on base, AJ can move him over and Q can bring him in. Might just work

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 10:08 AM
I'll go with Getz in the leadoff spot. But there are a few weeks left in S/T so we'll see. But if the season started tomorrow you would have to give it to Getz.

My lineup for the opener.

1. Getz- 2B
2. AJ- C
3. TCQ -LF
4. JD - RF
5. Thome - DH
6. Konerko - 1B
7. TCM - SS
8. Fields - 3B
9. Anderson - CF

Not a bad lineup at all now that I look at it.

2-8 is gonna put some runs on the board regardless of if it's AJ or TCM in the 2-hole and provided Fields can carry some of his success over to the regular season (.250, 25, 70 would be fine and I think he can do better than that).

Right now, I'd say this lineup makes the most sense with the assumption that it will be a platoon in the 9 hole at least to start the season. If however Owens beats out Wise (and with Wise slumping recently, it's a possibility) then I expect him to get some bats as leadoff. It's what the Sox want and I can live with it provided they are willing to change it up if he falls flat on his face.

spawn
03-19-2009, 10:18 AM
I'll go with Getz in the leadoff spot. But there are a few weeks left in S/T so we'll see. But if the season started tomorrow you would have to give it to Getz.

My lineup for the opener.

1. Getz- 2B
2. AJ- C
3. TCQ -LF
4. JD - RF
5. Thome - DH
6. Konerko - 1B
7. TCM - SS
8. Fields - 3B
9. Anderson - CF

Not a bad lineup at all now that I look at it.
I like it, although I fear that Ozzie will put D.Wise in the leadoff role if he makes the team.

SCCWS
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
My lineup for the opener.

1. Getz- 2B
2. AJ- C
3. TCQ -LF
4. JD - RF
5. Thome - DH
6. Konerko - 1B
7. TCM - SS
8. Fields - 3B
9. Anderson - CF

Not a bad lineup at all now that I look at it.


I agree that would be the lineup. Not a bad lineup??? Go back to the end of last season and how all of us were complaining about lack of speed. Getz vs Cabrera and Fields vs Uribe means we got slower. Obviously Dye-AJ-Thome-Konerko means slower. Getting back TCQ and a more experienced TCM means faster.
So overall, one of the slowest teams in 08 got slower. KW not getting a leadoff CF with speed is a major problem.

White City
03-19-2009, 10:20 AM
If Getz is the lead-off (I still vote Alexei), I like this lineup:

2B Getz
C AJP
LF Superman
RF Dye
SS TCM
DH Thome
1B Konerko
3B Fields
CF Anderson

Inserting Alexei in the five hole breaks up that logjam of slow mashers a little. It also gives him some protection, which might help him become that .300+ average guy with decent slugging and OBP.

If Getz can't handle lead-off, I'd go this way:

SS Alexei
2B Getz
LF Superman
DH Thome
RF Dye
C AJP
1B Konerko
3B Fields
CF Anderson

To me, Konerko at 7 is about as high as he should be in the lineup. Despite all the excuses about injuries, I think he is more likely just in end-of-career decline, and we should stop relying on him to be a middle-order rainmaker. If I'm wrong, he's one of the best 7 holes in the majors. But does Dye need something other than a lefty sandwich to protect him?

longtimesoxguy
03-19-2009, 10:24 AM
I'll roll with Wise.

Dibbs
03-19-2009, 10:25 AM
I say Getz, so BA can start too.

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 10:46 AM
I agree that would be the lineup. Not a bad lineup??? Go back to the end of last season and how all of us were complaining about lack of speed. Getz vs Cabrera and Fields vs Uribe means we got slower. Obviously Dye-AJ-Thome-Konerko means slower. Getting back TCQ and a more experienced TCM means faster.
So overall, one of the slowest teams in 08 got slower. KW not getting a leadoff CF with speed is a major problem.

First off, Fields isn't that slow and Getz should be able to match OC's SB production if he leads off and earns the green light.

Second, Fields will outhit Uribe by a solid margin probably and might go so far as to post #5 stats in the #8 slot if he really breaks out. This team may not be fast, but it's going to score a bunch of runs. I've already predicted that I think they will outscore last year's team because of a healthy PK, a season of experience for TCM and TCQ and Fields replacing Uribe. Also, the expected platoon of BA/Wise should outhit the production we got from CF last year and if one of them breaks out and steals the job full time, that would be fine too.

You're picking at the bark on a single tree and complaining that it doesn't look healthy. The forest is strong and deep...

parlaycard
03-19-2009, 10:53 AM
6 posts...and you are deciding who should stay and go?


does it matter how many posts someone has on an internet site to know baseball?

it was a joke

but if you think Owens is the sox best option as their opening day centerfielder, youre an idiot, and you dont know baseball very well.

im sorry you think the number of posts one has on an internet site means you have more knowledge than others. in my opinion, it just means you have more free time than others. it doesnt mean your opinion is more worthy than mine , or less worthy than mine, or anyone elses. although people who spend a lot of time posting messages on internet sites, blogs and message boards seem to think so.

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 10:54 AM
You're picking at the bark on a single tree and complaining that it doesn't look healthy. The forest is strong and deep...

Don't be such a sap. Most of the trees in our forest have plenty of lumber, but just can't run. OK, that's one too many puns. I'll leave now. :tongue:

Eddo144
03-19-2009, 10:56 AM
I know I've argued for Thome, since none of the other options know how to get on base as well as a league-average player, which is pathetic, but if Getz shows he can get on base, I'll be behind him all the way.

So please, Chris, win the job and show you can be a leadoff hitter.

jabrch
03-19-2009, 10:59 AM
does it matter how many posts someone has on an internet site to know baseball?

It very much matters if you are deciding who should stay or go.


but if you think Owens is the sox best option as their opening day centerfielder, youre an idiot, and you dont know baseball very well.

Show me where I said that...

im sorry you think the number of posts one has on an internet site means you have more knowledge than others.

Show me where I said that...


YOU CAN'T

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 11:03 AM
Let's cool it with the name calling, folks. Keep it civil attack the ideas, not the posters who posted them.

spiffie
03-19-2009, 11:07 AM
6 posts...and you are deciding who should stay and go?
You are not your post count..

cards press box
03-19-2009, 11:10 AM
Right now, Getz appears to be the best option to bat leadoff. I still think that the Sox might make a move before April 6 that will add a leadoff man. For example, if the Sox decide to keep Gordon Beckham on the major league roster and start him at 2B, would anyone be surprised if the they dealt one of their other second basemen to St. Louis for Skip Schumaker? Add Schumaker to the White Sox and he might play CF and leadoff.

sox1970
03-19-2009, 11:38 AM
Right now, Getz appears to be the best option to bat leadoff. I still think that the Sox might make a move before April 6 that will add a leadoff man. For example, if the Sox decide to keep Gordon Beckham on the major league roster and start him at 2B, would anyone be surprised if the they dealt one of their other second basemen to St. Louis for Skip Schumaker? Add Schumaker to the White Sox and he might play CF and leadoff.

They're saying Schumaker is making progress at 2B, so the Cardinals will probably stick with him. Now that Jose Oquendo is done with the WBC, he'll be there to work with him the rest of spring training.

I think it's a great trade idea, but I could see how the Cardinals would hold off on taking Getz until they know Schumaker can't play there. So maybe this is something that could happen in June.

soxinem1
03-19-2009, 11:54 AM
Getz, he's earned it.

Honestly, a no-brainer. And with BA in CF, we might have a very strong up-the-middle combo.

As far as Skip Shumaker, do we really need ANOTHER year of a player at a key defensive spot playing way out of position when we have more than enough alternatives?

sox1970
03-19-2009, 12:14 PM
Honestly, a no-brainer. And with BA in CF, we might have a very strong up-the-middle combo.

As far as Skip Shumaker, do we really need ANOTHER year of a player at a key defensive spot playing way out of position when we have more than enough alternatives?

Schumaker can't play CF?

I don't think there would be anything wrong with Schumaker leading off against righties and playing CF, with Beckham at 2B come June/July.

NLaloosh
03-19-2009, 01:00 PM
Alexei, Getz, Quentin.....

sox1970
03-19-2009, 01:12 PM
Owens is leading off today. Getz batting 8th.

WHILEPITCH
03-19-2009, 01:17 PM
Hmm Konerko trails JO by one vote

guillensdisciple
03-19-2009, 01:18 PM
Getz.

ChiSoxFan81
03-19-2009, 01:26 PM
Tim Raines, Jr.

russ99
03-19-2009, 01:53 PM
Getz, he's earned it.

Really? Precisely what from his 7 major league at-bats have given you that foresight?

If anything, Owens has earned it, due to his total numbers in the leadoff spot in the regular season vs. MLB pitching, which happen to be the best on the current team roster.

Maybe we should really discuss about who's best suited to lead off - without bringing Anderson's playing time into the equasion...

We still have 2+ weeks to go, so we'll see how this shakes out.

bradchifan3
03-19-2009, 02:01 PM
Really? Precisely what from his 7 major league at-bats have given you that foresight?

If anything, Owens has earned it, due to his total numbers in the leadoff spot in the regular season vs. MLB pitching, which happen to be the best on the current team roster.

Maybe we should really discuss about who's best suited to lead off - without bringing Anderson's playing time into the equasion...

We still have 2+ weeks to go, so we'll see how this shakes out.

Owens? You cannot be serious. Move on, the guy is not a baseball player. I will no nuts if he isn't DFA in the next 2 weeks.

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 02:08 PM
Owens? You cannot be serious. Move on, the guy is not a baseball player. I will no nuts if he isn't DFA in the next 2 weeks.

And we'll be able to tell the difference exactly how? :wink:

thomas35forever
03-19-2009, 02:10 PM
Where's the option for too many options?

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 02:12 PM
The problem with Owens is that the only positions for which he is suited - left field and designated hitter - are occupied by two of the Sox best hitters. Owens is not a center fielder and I'm sick of center field being thought of as a "offense first" position where you can stick just anyone. It would be great if next year, when Dye and Thome likely are no longer on the team and Quentin moves over to right, that Beckham hits well and plays second base, and there would be an opening in left field to stick Owens. But we're talking about this year, and I'm just not willing to make my defense suck just to get Owens' sub-.330 OBP and bad baserunning (despite his speed) in the leadoff spot.

Basically, if Owens were Juan Pierre, I could live with him in CF.

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 02:13 PM
Where's the option for too many options?

Somebody has to bat first every game. I ran out of options. There are only 15.

Tragg
03-19-2009, 02:29 PM
Owens is not a center fielder and I'm sick of center field being thought of as a "offense first" position where you can stick just anyone.
It's hard to claim that it's an "offense first" position when Owens, Wise and Anderson are under consideration.

It seems to be more of a "defense doesn't matter" position or a "Speed is the most important aspect" position.

veeter
03-19-2009, 02:38 PM
Getz, he's earned it.Yep. He's an old school type of player. He does something that's very underrated: he puts the ball in play. Low strikeouts, a lot of contact, he's our man.

soxinem1
03-19-2009, 02:39 PM
The problem with Owens is that the only positions for which he is suited - left field and designated hitter - are occupied by two of the Sox best hitters. Owens is not a center fielder and I'm sick of center field being thought of as a "offense first" position where you can stick just anyone. It would be great if next year, when Dye and Thome likely are no longer on the team and Quentin moves over to right, that Beckham hits well and plays second base, and there would be an opening in left field to stick Owens. But we're talking about this year, and I'm just not willing to make my defense suck just to get Owens' sub-.330 OBP and bad baserunning (despite his speed) in the leadoff spot.

Basically, if Owens were Juan Pierre, I could live with him in CF.

I usually agree with you Frater, but how does Owens qualify as a DH? No power, hits too few 2B, 3B. I guess he would lead the DH spot in SB's, but who cares about that? I could see his line now: 500 AB, 1 HR, 37 RBI, 23 SB. Whoopeee!

In LF, he has a worse arm than anyone we have. I think he makes Rudy Law and Lance Johnson look like Roberto Clemente.

Last year I thought he deserved a shot in ST, but he should be ****canned for 2009. We do not need him.

Eddo144
03-19-2009, 02:39 PM
The problem with Owens is that the only positions for which he is suited - left field and designated hitter - are occupied by two of the Sox best hitters. Owens is not a center fielder and I'm sick of center field being thought of as a "offense first" position where you can stick just anyone. It would be great if next year, when Dye and Thome likely are no longer on the team and Quentin moves over to right, that Beckham hits well and plays second base, and there would be an opening in left field to stick Owens. But we're talking about this year, and I'm just not willing to make my defense suck just to get Owens' sub-.330 OBP and bad baserunning (despite his speed) in the leadoff spot.

Basically, if Owens were Juan Pierre, I could live with him in CF.
Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

Owens has no suitable position. You can't put him in CF, because CF should be a defense-first position, and Owens plays poor CF defense.

You can't put him in LF, because LF should be an offense-first position, and Owens would be the worst offensive LF in baseball.

And I can't believe anyone would consider using Owens as a DH. DH is a position for good hitters who are liabilities in the field, not poor fielders who can't hit.

As much as I hate to do so, I agree with bradchifan about Owens: he shouldn't be on a major league roster.

bradchifan3
03-19-2009, 02:43 PM
Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

Owens has no suitable position. You can't put him in CF, because CF should be a defense-first position, and Owens plays poor CF defense.

You can't put him in LF, because LF should be an offense-first position, and Owens would be the worst offensive LF in baseball.

And I can't believe anyone would consider using Owens as a DH. DH is a position for good hitters who are liabilities in the field, not poor fielders who can't hit.

As much as I hate to do so, I agree with bradchifan about Owens: he shouldn't be on a major league roster.

YES!! I did it! We have a believer......

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 02:46 PM
I usually agree with you Frater, but how does Owens qualify as a DH? No power, hits too few 2B, 3B. I guess he would lead the DH spot in SB's, but who cares about that? I could see his line now: 500 AB, 1 HR, 37 RBI, 23 SB. Whoopeee!

In LF, he has a worse arm than anyone we have. I think he makes Rudy Law and Lance Johnson look like Roberto Clemente.

Last year I thought he deserved a shot in ST, but he should be ****canned for 2009. We do not need him.

Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

Owens has no suitable position. You can't put him in CF, because CF should be a defense-first position, and Owens plays poor CF defense.

You can't put him in LF, because LF should be an offense-first position, and Owens would be the worst offensive LF in baseball.

And I can't believe anyone would consider using Owens as a DH. DH is a position for good hitters who are liabilities in the field, not poor fielders who can't hit.

As much as I hate to do so, I agree with bradchifan about Owens: he shouldn't be on a major league roster.

LF and DH are the only places where Owens' poor fielding ability won't hurt a team.

I'm not saying that he should play either LF or DH. I'm just saying that he should NOT play CF.

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 02:49 PM
It's hard to claim that it's an "offense first" position when Owens, Wise and Anderson are under consideration.

It seems to be more of a "defense doesn't matter" position or a "Speed is the most important aspect" position.

Over the past few years, the Sox have treated CF as an offense-first position, given that they have put Everett, Mackowiak, Erstad (.400 hitter!) and Griffey out there.

I agree with your second comment if Owens is retained on the roster.

Really, it's just a matter of semantics.

esbrechtel
03-19-2009, 02:50 PM
I was so relieved to see in the trib this morning that Ozzie said the he would consider Getz for the leadoff position....


I know he had mentioned many times before that he was not going to put him in that high pressure situation...

bradchifan3
03-19-2009, 02:52 PM
I was so relieved to see in the trib this morning that Ozzie said the he would consider Getz for the leadoff position....


I know he had mentioned many times before that he was not going to put him in that high pressure situation...

Why does Ozzie think that leading off the game is a high pressure situation?

Frater Perdurabo
03-19-2009, 02:58 PM
Why does Ozzie think that leading off the game is a high pressure situation?

Because he was never very good at it as a player.

Madscout
03-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Why does Ozzie think that leading off the game is a high pressure situation?
Because he could never do it.:smile:

sox1970
03-19-2009, 03:29 PM
Oh my...:o:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-leadoff-options-could-include-brian-anderson-and-josh-fields.html

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Oh my...:o:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-leadoff-options-could-include-brian-anderson-and-josh-fields.html

:tomatoaward :tomatoaward :tomatoaward :tomatoaward

Just figured I get them in early...:tongue:

Madscout
03-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Holy ****.:o:

hi im skot
03-19-2009, 03:55 PM
Oh my...:o:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-leadoff-options-could-include-brian-anderson-and-josh-fields.html

:rolling:

SoxyStu
03-19-2009, 03:59 PM
So he apologizes/takes the blame for putting Swisher in the leadoff hole and then is quoted as contemplating/talking to putting Anderson/Fields in the leadoff hole?

Does Ozzie seriously not have a clue/can he not learn from his past mistakes?

whitesox901
03-19-2009, 03:59 PM
Oh my...:o:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-leadoff-options-could-include-brian-anderson-and-josh-fields.html

why not?

jdm2662
03-19-2009, 04:00 PM
Talk is cheap, and Ozzie talks a lot.

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 04:12 PM
I'm too lazy to reread this whole thread.. but did someone say Owens has EARNED the leadoff spot?? :gah:

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm too lazy to reread this whole thread.. but did someone say Owens has EARNED the leadoff spot?? :gah:

You aren't reading the thread but are responding with frustration to a post you didn't read? :scratch:

Is it April 6th yet?

Konerko05
03-19-2009, 04:22 PM
You aren't reading the thread but are responding with frustration to a post you didn't read? :scratch:

Is it April 6th yet?

To SoxGirl's defense, she did say "reread." Maybe something you should try. :smile:

I'm in the Getz lead off camp.

Getz
Ramirez
Quentin
Thome
Dye
Konerko
Pierzynski
Fields
Anderson

bradchifan3
03-19-2009, 04:24 PM
To SoxGirl's defense, she did say "reread." Maybe something you should try. :smile:

I'm in the Getz lead off camp.

Getz
Ramirez
Quentin
Thome
Dye
Konerko
Pierzynski
Fields
Anderson

Flip-flop Thome and Dye and we have a winner.

Konerko05
03-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Flip-flop Thome and Dye and we have a winner.

I went back and forth on that one. I put Thome 4th because he is the higher OBP guy, and he also evenly breaks up a string of power righties. Dye will have a lot of RBI opportunities with Quentin and Thome hitting in front of him. Plus the pitcher will have to work hard through the 3 and 4 spots while a little bit of speed is on the basepaths.

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 04:33 PM
You aren't reading the thread but are responding with frustration to a post you didn't read? :scratch:

Is it April 6th yet?
I did read it. I didn't want to go back and find that specific post. I think this whole CF/Leadoff debate is frying my nerves, personally.

voodoochile
03-19-2009, 04:38 PM
I did read it. I didn't want to go back and find that specific post. I think this whole CF/Leadoff debate is frying my nerves, personally.

My bad and my apologies. I misread your post... I agree completely, I'm frazzled on this silliness and it probably is what lead to my lack of comprehension skills. I'm seeing too many people who are ignoring any idea which doesn't jibe with their personal viewpoint on who should be playing CF and/or leading off. Tunnel vision is running amok. In fact I get the impression many people aren't actually reading all the posts, but still trying to argue their points.

Nothing like having a preconceived notion about how things should be/go and then hanging on to it regardless of what else happens/happened.

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 04:42 PM
My bad and my apologies. I misread your post... I agree completely, I'm frazzled on this silliness and it probably is what lead to my lack of comprehension skills. I'm seeing too many people who are ignoring any idea which doesn't jibe with their personal viewpoint on who should be playing CF and/or leading off. Tunnel vision is running amok. In fact I get the impression many people aren't actually reading all the posts, but still trying to argue their points.

Nothing like having a preconceived notion about how things should be/go and then hanging on to it regardless of what else happens/happened.


:tiphat:

Quentin4prez
03-19-2009, 04:45 PM
if owens leads off to start the season i wion't be very happy. I voted for Getz although i don't think he is a leadoff hitter but better suited for a #2 hitter for the future. another thing is from what i remember from last year TCM has speed but doesnt have good mechanics to steal bases right? otherwise i would stick TCM in that hole no problem because he does have a year under his belt if that is the only reason ozzy wont start Getz at leadoff.
I hope we find a leadoff for the future in our system(Jordan Danks) soon:whiner:

Tragg
03-19-2009, 06:19 PM
Erstad (.400 hitter!) .

LOL - I forgot about Ozzie's 400 hitter.

Milkman43
03-19-2009, 06:43 PM
Anyone voting for Owens should be automatically banned from this board
And your reasoning is....? He's the biggest base stealing threat the Sox have. Leaving him out of the order and inserting Wise or Getz in the leadoff spot would be a mistake.

SoxGirl4Life
03-19-2009, 07:04 PM
And here we go again....circular firing squad

Tragg
03-19-2009, 07:27 PM
And your reasoning is....? He's the biggest base stealing threat the Sox have. Leaving him out of the order and inserting Wise or Getz in the leadoff spot would be a mistake.
He's a poor hitter who strugges to get on base and his defense is poor.
We don't need basestealers in front of Quentin, Thome, Konerko and Dye anyway.

sox1970
03-19-2009, 08:32 PM
http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1661

Somebody...anybody but Wise or Owens.

JB98
03-19-2009, 08:51 PM
I selected Alexei Ramirez in this poll. Yeah, he's a free swinger. He doesn't walk. His OBP isn't great. But he's our most dynamic offensive player, and I'm comfortable with him having the most ABs on the team.

I can live with Getz, although I'm wary of putting that kind of pressure on an unproven rookie. I think Getz would perform well batting eighth or ninth. Once he gets established, then maybe we move him up.

I absolutely DO NOT think any of the CF candidates should be leading off. None of them are particularly good hitters.

whitesox901
03-19-2009, 09:03 PM
jabrch should :D:

thedudeabides
03-19-2009, 09:07 PM
Oh my...:o:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/03/white-sox-leadoff-options-could-include-brian-anderson-and-josh-fields.html

It sounds like he's just kicking ideas around, when facing tough lefties. I would much rather see Alexei leadoff in these situations. If they are considering the idea of Getz at leadoff, I'm sure they will try to give him time off against certain lefties, just to help his confidence.

Daver
03-19-2009, 09:42 PM
DH for the center fielder and have the starting pitcher hit lead off.

jabrch
03-19-2009, 09:42 PM
jabrch should :D:


?

whitesox901
03-19-2009, 09:45 PM
?

I couldn't think of anything interesting to say :D:

bradchifan3
03-19-2009, 10:05 PM
I selected Alexei Ramirez in this poll. Yeah, he's a free swinger. He doesn't walk. His OBP isn't great. But he's our most dynamic offensive player, and I'm comfortable with him having the most ABs on the team.

I can live with Getz, although I'm wary of putting that kind of pressure on an unproven rookie. I think Getz would perform well batting eighth or ninth. Once he gets established, then maybe we move him up.

I absolutely DO NOT think any of the CF candidates should be leading off. None of them are particularly good hitters.

When did hitting lead off become so pressure-packed?

russ99
03-19-2009, 10:56 PM
Owens has no suitable position. You can't put him in CF, because CF should be a defense-first position, and Owens plays poor CF defense.


Now really, when was the last time the Sox had a player starting in CF who was a defense-first player?

The last I can think of is Lance Johnson, and before that Rudy Law, and both were leadoff hitters too. CF for the Sox has almost always been offense-first. Rowand was a pretty good defensive player, but his hitting was why he was there. Was Swisher's defense why he won the CF job last year? I don't think so.

The only reason defense has come up as such a vital measuring stick this season, is that it's one of the few things the Anderson camp can cling to to put their guy in the picture.

Owens went 0-2 today, but he walked, stole second and scored a run, the things that leadoff hitters do. Again, he's not an optimal solution, but the best option we have on the current roster.

JungleJimR
03-19-2009, 11:19 PM
To SoxGirl's defense, she did say "reread." Maybe something you should try. :smile:

I'm in the Getz lead off camp.

Getz
Ramirez
Quentin
Thome
Dye
Konerko
Pierzynski
Fields
Anderson


Why this thing for Ramirez batting 2nd? This is just about the same thing as AJ - .317 vs .312 OBP; 19 vs 18 walks for the entire 2008 season.

I'm afraid that we Sox fans should get real familiar with the refrain: "and Quentin steps in with no one on and two outs".

Tragg
03-19-2009, 11:30 PM
Why this thing for Ramirez batting 2nd? This is just about the same thing as AJ - .317 vs .312 OBP; 19 vs 18 walks for the entire 2008 season.

I'm afraid that we Sox fans should get real familiar with the refrain: "and Quentin steps in with no one on and two outs".
Unfortunately, we have no obp guy realy except Getz if he can replicate his minor league numbers. As for Alexei, he's too much of a free swinger to be an obp guy, but it was his first year, he hit way down in the order with Uribe protecting him. Still, he is a good hitter and he runs the bases well.

Eddo144
03-19-2009, 11:46 PM
Now really, when was the last time the Sox had a player starting in CF who was a defense-first player?

The last I can think of is Lance Johnson, and before that Rudy Law, and both were leadoff hitters too. CF for the Sox has almost always been offense-first. Rowand was a pretty good defensive player, but his hitting was why he was there. Was Swisher's defense why he won the CF job last year? I don't think so.

The only reason defense has come up as such a vital measuring stick this season, is that it's one of the few things the Anderson camp can cling to to put their guy in the picture.

Owens went 0-2 today, but he walked, stole second and scored a run, the things that leadoff hitters do. Again, he's not an optimal solution, but the best option we have on the current roster.
CF, across the entire league, is viewed as a primarily defense-first position. That's not to say teams don't care if their CF can hit, just that they need him to play good defense.

And great, Owens got on base one out of three times today. That is what leadoff hitters do - below-average ones.

I could care less if Anderson wins the job. Please don't insinuate that I belong to that subset of posters.

JB98
03-20-2009, 01:37 AM
When did hitting lead off become so pressure-packed?

Well, there's a helluva lot more pressure on the leadoff hitter than there is on the No. 9 batter, right?

It must be a pretty important spot in the batting order, considering that we have two lengthy threads in the clubhouse right now debating the issue.

SoxyStu
03-20-2009, 09:19 AM
Talk is cheap, and Ozzie talks a lot.

Yeah, maybe he is trying to motivate others to step it up by throwing out outlandish statements.

jabrch
03-20-2009, 09:44 AM
I couldn't think of anything interesting to say :D:


I'd be very very very bad.

Tragg
03-20-2009, 09:53 AM
I think Ozzie's correct in an overall sense. It's obvious that the Sox have to bifurcate CF and leadoff.

Frater Perdurabo
03-20-2009, 10:11 AM
This is making me long for Willie Harris. :o:

Marqhead
03-20-2009, 10:19 AM
This is making me long for Willie Harris. :o:

You take that back right now!

Frater Perdurabo
03-20-2009, 10:27 AM
You take that back right now!

He was decent in 2004. Rowand had a pretty awesome 2004, too.

bradchifan3
03-20-2009, 11:31 AM
Well, there's a helluva lot more pressure on the leadoff hitter than there is on the No. 9 batter, right?

It must be a pretty important spot in the batting order, considering that we have two lengthy threads in the clubhouse right now debating the issue.

What extra pressure is on the leadoff hitter? Is there extra pressure on whoever leads off the 2nd inning, the 3rd, the 4th etc??? The whole extra pressure thing is complete BS.

I'm not disagreeing that its important, but pressure packed? No chance. And that's Ozzie's only argument about not leading off Getz? Put Getz in the 1 hole with his high OBP and ability to put the ball in play.

Also, putting Alexei in the 2 will give him lots of fastballs and strikes to work with because Quentin is on deck. He is going to swing regardless, so why not let him swing at fastballs and strikes?

Getz, Ramirez, Quentin, Dye, Thome, Konerko, Pierzynski, Fields, Anderson seems like the best we can do with our current personel.

soxfanreggie
03-20-2009, 11:36 AM
I'm thinking we'll see maybe 3 different guys at this spot. Hopefully we don't have to keep changing things up and whoever we start there works out.

Thome25
03-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Man, we are in bad shape in the leadoff spot. IMO if Fields and/or BA are a possibility at leadoff then that is just as bad as putting Swisher there last year.

What do you think?

Link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-20-white-sox-chicago-mar20,0,5820297.story

EDIT: Here is the Sun-Times link on the same subject: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1486810,CST-SPT-deluca20.article

spawn
03-20-2009, 12:08 PM
I think Ozzie is sending a not-too-subtle message to KW about not having a legitimate leadoff hitter.

Jerko
03-20-2009, 12:09 PM
Well with those 2 leading off, at least we won't need a 2 hitter that is good at advancing runners.

Thome25
03-20-2009, 12:11 PM
I think there's already a thread about this.


If there is, then I apologize.....I saw one about TCQ leading off and who our leadoff man should be, but not this specific subject.

beasly213
03-20-2009, 12:13 PM
I think we're making too big of a deal about the leadoff spot. Look around the league. You can count on your hand the number of teams that have a "true" lead off hitter.

If the Sox are a bad team this year it will not be because of a lack of a true lead off hitter.

JB98
03-20-2009, 02:16 PM
What extra pressure is on the leadoff hitter? Is there extra pressure on whoever leads off the 2nd inning, the 3rd, the 4th etc??? The whole extra pressure thing is complete BS.

I'm not disagreeing that its important, but pressure packed? No chance. And that's Ozzie's only argument about not leading off Getz? Put Getz in the 1 hole with his high OBP and ability to put the ball in play.

Also, putting Alexei in the 2 will give him lots of fastballs and strikes to work with because Quentin is on deck. He is going to swing regardless, so why not let him swing at fastballs and strikes?

Getz, Ramirez, Quentin, Dye, Thome, Konerko, Pierzynski, Fields, Anderson seems like the best we can do with our current personel.

You amuse me. My gosh. I don't even have time to respond to your crap anymore.

Tragg
03-20-2009, 02:37 PM
What extra pressure is on the leadoff hitter? Is there extra pressure on whoever leads off the 2nd inning, the 3rd, the 4th etc??? The whole extra pressure thing is complete BS.
He leads off every game and it's nice to get off to a good start.
And he's going to lead off a larger percentage of the rest of the innings than anyone else because he hits immediately behind the hitter who makes the most outs on a team. (obviously, to lead off an inning, the batter in front of you had to make an out, with a few exceptions).
Things like that add up.
Now, in the NL, the need is more pronounced in most cases as AL 9 hole hitters are usually better than NL 9 hole hitters (pitchers).

bradchifan3
03-20-2009, 04:12 PM
You amuse me. My gosh. I don't even have time to respond to your crap anymore.

So in other words you don't have a good argument with which to respond.

beasly213
03-20-2009, 04:16 PM
So in other words you don't have a good argument with which to respond.


:popcorn:

SCCWS
03-20-2009, 04:19 PM
First off, Fields isn't that slow and Getz should be able to match OC's SB production if he leads off and earns the green light.

Second, Fields will outhit Uribe by a solid margin probably and might go so far as to post #5 stats in the #8 slot if he really breaks out. This team may not be fast, but it's going to score a bunch of runs. I've already predicted that I think they will outscore last year's team because of a healthy PK, a season of experience for TCM and TCQ and Fields replacing Uribe. Also, the expected platoon of BA/Wise should outhit the production we got from CF last year and if one of them breaks out and steals the job full time, that would be fine too.

You're picking at the bark on a single tree and complaining that it doesn't look healthy. The forest is strong and deep



I am guessing you have not seen Getz play. He stole 11 bases in AAA on a team where 2 players ( one being Owens stole 30). Getz is not fast. How the heck is he going to match OC's 19 steals at the major league level. Fields is Joe Crede fast in case you have not seen him play. His AAA doubles/triples have been limited based on number of AB.

Quentin4prez
03-20-2009, 04:34 PM
You amuse me. My gosh. I don't even have time to respond to your crap anymore.
It isnt really much added pressure on Getz. either way he needs to succeed to stay up here so why not see what you got. he will see better pitches because no1 wants to walk a guy to face TCM or Quentin. Statistically Getz is the best choice of the three for a leadoff spot. Getz doesnt need to be used with kid gloves because beckham is a year away so most likely Getz isnt here for long anyway unless TCM moves to CF.

to me Getz is more of a stopgap at 2nd unless he proves he is a good option at leadoff, and if he can show he is one he becomes less expendable so give him a shot.
GOOD LUCK GETZ:gulp:

voodoochile
03-20-2009, 04:34 PM
I am guessing you have not seen Getz play. He stole 11 bases in AAA on a team where 2 players ( one being Owens stole 30). Getz is not fast. How the heck is he going to match OC's 19 steals at the major league level. Fields is Joe Crede fast in case you have not seen him play. His AAA doubles/triples have been limited based on number of AB.

Fields actually steals bases - when did Crede ever do that?

Oh and I added the quote tags to your post to clear up confusion. If you want to have them appear naturally, simply click the "quote" button at the bottom of the post you want to reply to instead of the "reply" button and it will be all set up for you.

Quentin4prez
03-20-2009, 04:46 PM
I am guessing you have not seen Getz play. He stole 11 bases in AAA on a team where 2 players ( one being Owens stole 30). Getz is not fast. How the heck is he going to match OC's 19 steals at the major league level. Fields is Joe Crede fast in case you have not seen him play. His AAA doubles/triples have been limited based on number of AB.
I dont know if you have watched fields on the base paths but by no means is he a Willy Taveras but he isnt a base clogger He is much faster than Crede, and it is very possible for Getz to match OC's 19 steals with a better OBP and i dont really understand why it matters that 2 other players stole 30 bases?

Frater Perdurabo
03-20-2009, 04:54 PM
The crux of the problem is that the Sox (like many teams) have been unable to develop a position player who is a good leadoff hitter. This is due in large part to the Sox placing too heavy of an emphasis on power when coaching and promoting their prospects. The only home-grown guy to have come through the system in the last decade who could have been a servicable leadoff hitter has been Rowand, who put up an excellent average and OBP in 2004 and 2007, and generally runs the bases well and can steal a few bases.

So KW tried a "short cut" plan to "grow" a leadoff hitter: find a really fast guy (Owens), and try to teach him to play baseball. That plan has failed.

Let's hope Jordan Danks can be that rare home-grown leadoff hitter. We'll just have to muddle through it and/or look outside the organization to find a stopgap in the meantime.

JB98
03-20-2009, 05:01 PM
It isnt really much added pressure on Getz. either way he needs to succeed to stay up here so why not see what you got. he will see better pitches because no1 wants to walk a guy to face TCM or Quentin. Statistically Getz is the best choice of the three for a leadoff spot. Getz doesnt need to be used with kid gloves because beckham is a year away so most likely Getz isnt here for long anyway unless TCM moves to CF.

to me Getz is more of a stopgap at 2nd unless he proves he is a good option at leadoff, and if he can show he is one he becomes less expendable so give him a shot.
GOOD LUCK GETZ:gulp:

I think it's a lot of added pressure on Getz. He has a grand total of seven MLB at-bats. Seven! He's got to learn all the pitchers, play a demanding defensive position AND be the table-setter for the offense? I think that's a lot of pressure on a young player trying to break into the big leagues.

Let's not forget that Nick Swisher cracked under the pressure of being asked to leadoff. It ain't that easy. I'd put Getz at the bottom of the order and let him cut his teeth. I'm not opposed to playing him everyday and "seeing what he's got." He looks like our best option at 2B. But I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give him too much too quick.

I'm still in favor of batting Ramirez and Pierzynski in the 1-2 spots.

MarkZ35
03-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Leading off has pressure but I believe batting Getz second could have just as much pressure if not more. Batting second can bring some big pressure situations in a tight game where a batter may need to hit and run, bunt a guy over, hit behind a runner, or take pitches to allow the lead off hitter to steal a base. Usually a #2 hitter is expected to be successful in these situations.

It's Dankerific
03-20-2009, 05:21 PM
While there may be pressure, there is also opportunity. Getz could solidify his roster spot by playing well at leadoff. Its a damn better idea than going with people we know suck at leading off. (looking at you mr. Owens.)

Quentin4prez
03-20-2009, 05:26 PM
I think it's a lot of added pressure on Getz. He has a grand total of seven MLB at-bats. Seven! He's got to learn all the pitchers, play a demanding defensive position AND be the table-setter for the offense? I think that's a lot of pressure on a young player trying to break into the big leagues.

Let's not forget that Nick Swisher cracked under the pressure of being asked to leadoff. It ain't that easy. I'd put Getz at the bottom of the order and let him cut his teeth. I'm not opposed to playing him everyday and "seeing what he's got." He looks like our best option at 2B. But I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give him too much too quick.

I'm still in favor of batting Ramirez and Pierzynski in the 1-2 spots.
im not argueing that Getz doesnt have a lot of pressure but that batting leadoff isn't adding a lot more. either way he has to play well defensively and with the stick. Alexei is overlooked for leadoff and i would also be happy if the sox gave him a chance but i think it will be hard for him to change his mindset and take some pitches to work the count because that is a part of being a leadoff hitter.

JB98
03-20-2009, 05:33 PM
im not argueing that Getz doesnt have a lot of pressure but that batting leadoff isn't adding a lot more. either way he has to play well defensively and with the stick. Alexei is overlooked for leadoff and i would also be happy if the sox gave him a chance but i think it will be hard for him to change his mindset and take some pitches to work the count because that is a part of being a leadoff hitter.

But I wouldn't ask Alexei to change his mindset. I'd send him up there and tell him to do what he does. Look for the fastball, be aggressive. No matter what we do, I don't think we're going to have that ideal leadoff hitter who works counts, gets on base at a .350 or better clip and steals bases. So, I'd just try to stack my best, most proven hitters near the top to get them the most ABs.

People talk about Getz getting more fastballs if he hits ahead of Quentin, well, what about Ramirez? I think Alexei is the best fastball hitter on the club now. That's saying something given that this is a team full of fastball hitters.

soxlug
03-21-2009, 12:54 PM
To SoxGirl's defense, she did say "reread." Maybe something you should try. :smile:

I'm in the Getz lead off camp.

Getz
Ramirez
Quentin
Thome
Dye
Konerko
Pierzynski
Fields
Anderson




your lineup is really close what I would like to see. I would make one change to it and that would be to put Dye behind Quentin. I think that Dye gives a little more protection to Quentin than Thome. One part I don't like about that is late in the game the opposing team can bring in a righty from the pen to face righty, righty, righty in our 2nd 3rd and 4th spots.

L Getz 2B- is our best leadoff candidate at this time. If you look at his career minor league numbers he does not strike out very much at all. When he was 22 at AA was the only year he did not hover around a .300 BA, his obp has been decent. A full year at leadoff I could see Getz getting 15 - 18 SB's. This keeps Wise from leading off and Jerry Owens out of the lineup. Plus Getz being 25 may have a little upside left.

R TCM SS- This spot gives the Cuban Missile a lot of at bats and superb lineup protection. I just hope in his 2nd full season he can improve his obp. Gives us some speed here also. AJ does a nice job batting 2nd but we would be starting off lefty, lefty so i think we want to spread out some lefty's.

R TCQ LF- no doubt our #3 hitter you want him up in the first inning with a chance to get us on the board quickly and drive in some runs.

R JD RF- Adds great protection for TCQ, and hopefully has atleast another year of 30 hr's 100 rbi's and hits .290.

L Thome DH- heres where we start getting slow, give us one more year of some vintage Jim and this lineup is starting to look scary.

R Konerko 1B- ok we are station to station at this point but how do we break these guys up. Paulie is having a great spring and if he hits 30 hr's and bats around .270 could be one of the best 6 hole hitters in baseball but still he makes a ton of money and is expected to produce those #'s.

L AJ C- just a really good hitter and a luxury to have here hitting #7 we have been able to flippy flop lefty righty in the lineup a little and AJ is having a tremendous spring I don't think it is crazy to expect some vintage AJ this year about a .280 avg and 135 games.

R Fields 3B- What do we get from this guy a lot of K's? The guy who hit 23 hr's in a 100 games? bottom line is Josh is 26 now and it is time for him to show us what he has. With Viciedo getting a lot of rave we can see where a slow start by Fields starts the calm chatter of the idea of bringing up The Cuban Tank. I for one hope the Fields who is having a really nice Spring shows up and cuts his K's down, hit maybe .265 and hit about 25 hr's that would be a nice season for an 8 hole hitter and not impossible for Fields he is healthy so Fields this is your shot, good luck.

R Anderson CF - Yes he should hit last in the lineup, and he should play everyday. His glove in CF is why. Jerry Owens is why. and Wise is why. I like Wise but he brings a lot more value coming off the bench to pinch run, or pinch hit (lefty.) Brian has had just one season of full time play and just did not hit and ever since has been platooned with a lot of cruddy players. The guy is 27 this year has been around and I just want to see what he does if he can play every day he has been putting together a decent spring as of late so maybe the guy hits .250 to .260 with some pop I think he can get the job done especially on the defensive side of the field.

This I feel is the best lineup we have with current personnell. It is not perfect. I mean I would love to throw in a Grady Sizemore in there but we don't have him. I just think Jerry Owens should not be here I mean he is fighting for his baseball life and has 1 sb this spring with 3 cs's and has not been hitting. Getz should be our starting 2nd baseman, send Beckham to AA for about fifty games and after he blows it up there for a while send him to AAA the rest of the season. Beckham will be our starting 2nd baseman next year. Sign your beloved Figgins in the offseason to lead off and next year he will lead off, can he really play CF anymore? Anyways a fun time of year where everybody is in first place. Go Sox!!!!

russ99
03-22-2009, 09:27 PM
Owens went 0-2 today, but walked 3 times, stole 2 bases and scored 3 runs. If we can see those kind of results consistently the next 2 weeks, we'll have our CF/leadoff guy vs. righthanders.

sox1970
03-22-2009, 09:33 PM
It's pretty clear they do not want Getz leading off no matter what. Wise or Owens--one will lead off against righties, the other will get DFA at the end of spring training.

Rohan
03-22-2009, 11:52 PM
I don't know which is more of a joke.
Voting for southpaw or voting for konerko.

whitesox901
03-22-2009, 11:57 PM
Looks like either Owens or Wise for righties

BleacherBandit
03-23-2009, 12:56 AM
I don't know which is more of a joke.
Voting for southpaw or voting for konerko.

I thought I was being funny when I voted for Konerko. I thought I was going to be the only one that did, but considering 3 others did, I think that demostrates something about his speed.

I once heard he was the slowest player in the MLB. Is this true?

Madscout
03-23-2009, 01:16 AM
I thought I was being funny when I voted for Konerko. I thought I was going to be the only one that did, but considering 3 others did, I think that demostrates something about his speed.

I once heard he was the slowest player in the MLB. Is this true?
Not when Thome is in the MLB.:(:

Craig Grebeck
03-23-2009, 01:19 AM
I thought I was being funny when I voted for Konerko. I thought I was going to be the only one that did, but considering 3 others did, I think that demostrates something about his speed.

I once heard he was the slowest player in the MLB. Is this true?
One of, but not slower than Molina.

Not when Thome is in the MLB.:(:
Jim is a great baserunner.

oeo
03-23-2009, 01:31 AM
Not when Thome is in the MLB.:(:

Thome is not slower than Konerko, and Benji Molina has to be the slowest guy in the league. Was that in 2005 when he hit into a triple play on a slow roller to third, and was still out by quite a bit?