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JermaineDye05
03-16-2009, 05:37 PM
"Ryan Braun day-to-day, Lindstrom done."

I believe Pedroia was out for the Puerto Rico game.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3985626)

kittle42
03-16-2009, 05:52 PM
They would have all gotten hurt in Arizona and Florida, anyway!

Only half teal.

captainclutch24
03-16-2009, 08:32 PM
They very well could have.

areilly
03-16-2009, 09:29 PM
They knew the risk was there going in and they went for it anyway. I refuse to weep for a pro athlete getting hurt engaging in professional athletic competition.

BleacherBandit
03-16-2009, 10:23 PM
Before the complaints start coming in for the WBC, what makes you critics think that these players wouldn't get hurt in spring-training or the regular season? If they're fragile enough to get hurt in WBC games, they're liable to do the same in MLB games.

Lip Man 1
03-16-2009, 10:53 PM
The difference is that in the WBC they are being rushed into full scale competition with little or no 'build-up'

Far, far different atmosphere then in a normal spring training game in early March.

Lip

FedEx227
03-16-2009, 11:08 PM
Thank you.

MarkZ35
03-16-2009, 11:18 PM
The difference is that in the WBC they are being rushed into full scale competition with little or no 'build-up'

Far, far different atmosphere then in a normal spring training game in early March.

Lip
Most of the players began working out earlier than they would have for a regular spring training. All this whining of injuries is exactly why the US team does terrible. They have no pride in their country. Other countries are doing this for their countries fans and respect in a game that they love to play.

I understand the fact that MLB teams are forking out a lot of money to depend on these players to be healthy but if it wasn't for the US there would be no MLB. They need to suck it up and just play. Your more prone to an injury when your trying to avoid one because you play tight and worried.

Heck, I've seen more baseball pride in Canada than the USA lately by the way they have ragged Dempster for not participating.

jabrch
03-17-2009, 12:07 AM
If I were an owner, a GM, a manager, a teammate (and even as a fan) and my player got hurt while working for me, I'd be upset - but at least I couldn't second guess myself. When it happens playing for someone else, with other coaches, trainers, doctors, etc., it is worse - mentally.

Both suck.

But I'd rather not see my assets working for someone else and being exposed.

oeo
03-17-2009, 12:19 AM
The difference is that in the WBC they are being rushed into full scale competition with little or no 'build-up'

:lol:

Do you think they sit around and do nothing all offseason? Spring Training isn't for getting into shape, these guys are in shape. It's unfortunate that injuries happen, but they do.

JermaineDye05
03-17-2009, 01:01 AM
I haven't been watching the WBC but I was listening to Ken Rosenthal on Mully and Hanley. He said that Brian McCann was playing the outfield in a game for team USA, and that team USA's manager was considering putting Ted Lilly in the outfield :o:.

Nellie_Fox
03-17-2009, 01:04 AM
Do you think they sit around and do nothing all offseason? Spring Training isn't for getting into shape, these guys are in shape. It's unfortunate that injuries happen, but they do.But they don't play baseball. They don't slide, throw hard, dive for balls, etc. If you think they're ready to go from day one, then why do they ease the guys in at regular spring training? The former MLBers on XM Homeplate repeatedly say that the guys in the WBC are going much harder than they would be in spring training at this point.

oeo
03-17-2009, 01:51 AM
But they don't play baseball. They don't slide, throw hard, dive for balls, etc. If you think they're ready to go from day one, then why do they ease the guys in at regular spring training? The former MLBers on XM Homeplate repeatedly say that the guys in the WBC are going much harder than they would be in spring training at this point.

I've seen them do all those things in the few Spring Training games that I've watched. Seriously? Sliding and diving? They may be going harder because of the competitiveness, but that doesn't mean that they can't do it, it just means they don't do it as often in Spring Training.

It's a good thing Hamels isn't in this thing, or all the blame from his elbow discomfort would go squarely on the WBC.

Domeshot17
03-17-2009, 02:04 AM
But they don't play baseball. They don't slide, throw hard, dive for balls, etc. If you think they're ready to go from day one, then why do they ease the guys in at regular spring training? The former MLBers on XM Homeplate repeatedly say that the guys in the WBC are going much harder than they would be in spring training at this point.


They better be doing that in Spring Training. I would think any player competing for a job is busting ass from day 1.

Spring Training is just to sharpen tools before the season. It makes money, it irons out position battles. It isn't for players to come get in shape. It isn't to ease into playing baseball. These guys work out 3-4 hours a day 5 days a week in the offseason. They are ready to go.

LoveYourSuit
03-17-2009, 02:17 AM
Cry me a river.

It's a damn game, getting hurt is part of it.

Half these guys can get hurt at home on a dirt bike or washing their truck.

Babe Ruth is turning on his grave listening to all this bitching and crying.

WhiteSox5187
03-17-2009, 02:30 AM
As has been said, injuries are just part of the game, if this thing was held in June or so, would people still be bitching about the injuries?

I like the WBC, but the timing of the whole thing is awful. Sadly Mr. Selig doesn't agree with this, but then again as far as he is concerned he has never done anything wrong.

Nellie_Fox
03-17-2009, 02:33 AM
I've seen them do all those things in the few Spring Training games that I've watched. Seriously? Sliding and diving?
I was talking about the offseason. You had said that they stay in shape in the offseason, and I said they don't stay in baseball shape. You guys can argue all you want; I'll believe the former major leaguers who I've heard say that most players are not yet ready for this level of competition this early. Period.

Domeshot17
03-17-2009, 03:23 AM
I was talking about the offseason. You had said that they stay in shape in the offseason, and I said they don't stay in baseball shape. You guys can argue all you want; I'll believe the former major leaguers who I've heard say that most players are not yet ready for this level of competition this early. Period.

(1) Former Players never did or had the chance to do what current players do. There weren't this level of strength academies. Go read an article about what just bubble players like Gabe Kapler used to do to prepare for the season. Its harder then any baseball practice. Players have so much more at their fingertips. I probably agree, 25 years ago players did not come into camp or ever hit the shape of the current guys. But Today, especially hitters, if it wasn't for pitchers, position battles, and money, hitters would only need about 2 weeks to tune it up and go.

(2) I will buy it on pitchers, because they tend to stretch out their endurance, but any good pitcher knowing he will be in the WBC just starts their throwing program 2-3 weeks early.

(3) Most of the injuries that have happened are not game related. They did not get hurt in game.

Yes, overall, baseball would be smarter to do this in November after the World Series. But lets be real, teams who know their players are going have those guys ready to go. They don't just cross their fingers and hope their guys don't get hurt. They have them working with instructors and strength coaches earlier than anyone else.

I just hate the overall view of it. If Chris Getz gets hurt diving for a ball because he is busting his hump from the first day to win a job, its fine. But if Dustin Pedroia sits because a muscle strain in the WBC its the end of the world. Hell listen to the players since you want MLB input. Chipper Jones said the biggest downside of the WBC is there isn't ENOUGH GAMES. You don't get the experience you get in spring training. You don't get the number of live AB's in Games. I guess the words of a future HOF and one of the top 5 3b to ever play the game should mean something.

In the end it doesn't matter. US players will never do well in this event. Foreign players play all winter, they work hard, they take pride in their country and truly compete. Team USA players half ass it, complain and make excuses, don't seem to go full speed very often and don't have the pride of repping their country. I mean I know Jake Peavy is really proud to play for team USA, but show up for an outing once in a while and earn it. If guys like Javy and Sidney Ponson can do it, a Jake Peavy should be able too.

kittle42
03-17-2009, 08:48 AM
Team USA players half ass it, complain and make excuses, don't seem to go full speed very often and don't have the pride of repping their country.

Damn straight! USA! USA!

SOXPHILE
03-17-2009, 10:17 AM
. All this whining of injuries is exactly why the US team does terrible. They have no pride in their country.

Heck, I've seen more baseball pride in Canada than the USA lately by the way they have ragged Dempster for not participating.

You've got to be ****ing kidding me. The "whining of injuries" means the US team has no pride in their country ? Canada is ragging on Dempster for not playing ? I really don't think the majority of Canada gives a rats ass about Dempster not playing, or the whole WBC for that matter. Players choosing not to play has nothing to do with them not having any national pride. It has to do with the fact that their commitment should be to the team that is actually paying them, not to some stupid, meaningless exhibition dreamed up by resident ass wipe Bud Selig.

guillensdisciple
03-17-2009, 10:31 AM
I agree, just look at what happened to A-Rod, Albert Pujols, and Cole Hamels!!


Darn you WBC!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

Oh wait:scratch::scratch:.

Well look at that, players getting injured and not participating in the WBC, maybe spring training should be canceled as well? I don't wish injury to anyone, but it is part of the game, and playing for your country should transcend any consequences that might happen injury-wise. The fact that pitchers are throwing at a limited pitch count and getting maybe one or two extra innings of work shouldn't hamper them too much for the season (if at all) and the hitters are getting swings in that they would have gotten during spring training. I just don't see what the big deal is, and since America exerts itself about as well as a Sloth in movement, I highly doubt that could be the cause of injury (oh, and over exertion is probably done more during spring training).

kittle42
03-17-2009, 10:39 AM
This injury debate is pretty pointless - the real debate, as has been discussed here before - is whether people actually care about the WBC. Those who don't will argue one side of the injury thing; those who do will argue the other. Neither will be completely right.

I, for one, don't care about the WBC at all, except that it is a pleasant diversion if nothing else is on while I am at the gym. I think it is good for baseball if the other countries playing in it are taking it seriously. As far as that goes, I haven't read anything yet or looked at foreign papers online to be able to judge.

guillensdisciple
03-17-2009, 11:02 AM
This injury debate is pretty pointless - the real debate, as has been discussed here before - is whether people actually care about the WBC. Those who don't will argue one side of the injury thing; those who do will argue the other. Neither will be completely right.

I, for one, don't care about the WBC at all, except that it is a pleasant diversion if nothing else is on while I am at the gym. I think it is good for baseball if the other countries playing in it are taking it seriously. As far as that goes, I haven't read anything yet or looked at foreign papers online to be able to judge.


I am pretty sure you can take fan attendance of other countries especially that of Korean, Japan, Puerto Rico, Mexico, and Venezuela. The deep following of baseball in Cuba also helps. Trust me, the only places that care less for this are the countries that are developing baseball countries or the U.S. I believe that America has less reason to care about this than other countries because there are so many other things that we follow on a daily basis then baseball (Basketball and Hockey), so our enjoyment of the WBC will be slighly less loving than that of other countries.

scarsofthumper
03-17-2009, 11:27 AM
I care very much about the WBC, mainly because of Puerto Rico though.

It's not they have significant injuries that's going to take months to heal. If there is any problem whatsoever they're going to pull out before there's any significant damage

MarkZ35
03-17-2009, 12:55 PM
You've got to be ****ing kidding me. The "whining of injuries" means the US team has no pride in their country ? Canada is ragging on Dempster for not playing ? I really don't think the majority of Canada gives a rats ass about Dempster not playing, or the whole WBC for that matter. Players choosing not to play has nothing to do with them not having any national pride. It has to do with the fact that their commitment should be to the team that is actually paying them, not to some stupid, meaningless exhibition dreamed up by resident ass wipe Bud Selig.

So your like the rest of baseball and everything you think about is money. Do you hear any other countries crying about injuries. Barely any and yes Dempster has been getting ragged by all of Canada for not playing because he isn't hurt and they believe they would have moved on if he would have pitched. I don't necessarily agree but that's what they think. Either way stop complaining and play. The US players are too soft. If the MLB hated it that much they wouldnt allow any of the players to play.

oeo
03-17-2009, 01:20 PM
I was talking about the offseason. You had said that they stay in shape in the offseason, and I said they don't stay in baseball shape. You guys can argue all you want; I'll believe the former major leaguers who I've heard say that most players are not yet ready for this level of competition this early. Period.

These former players said they were not ready, or that they usually do not play 'as hard' in Spring Training. Two completely different things, and now you've mentioned them both in two separate posts.

You have to be in a certain shape to slide and dive for balls? I could go outside right now and slide/dive; I'm sure as hell not in shape, compare me to a professional baseball player.

I will give you pitchers since they have to build up arm strength, but as for position players, there's no excuse for not being ready to play baseball in March.

Nellie_Fox
03-17-2009, 01:21 PM
I will give you pitchers since they have to build up arm strength, but as for position players, there's no excuse for not being ready to play baseball in March.
Okay. Cancel spring training for everyone except pitchers. Not needed.

kittle42
03-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Either way stop complaining and play.

The ones who want to do play. The ones who don't want to play opt out.

The US players are too soft.

On what do do base this?

If the MLB hated it that much they wouldnt allow any of the players to play.

Um, the MLB, via Selig, *created* the WBC. Your comment makes no sense.

SOXPHILE
03-17-2009, 01:53 PM
So your like the rest of baseball and everything you think about is money. Do you hear any other countries crying about injuries. Barely any and yes Dempster has been getting ragged by all of Canada for not playing because he isn't hurt and they believe they would have moved on if he would have pitched. I don't necessarily agree but that's what they think. Either way stop complaining and play. The US players are too soft. If the MLB hated it that much they wouldnt allow any of the players to play.

The WBC is pointless. What's the reason for it ? To see the best players in the world compete ? Oh, wait, I already do. It's called the MLB season. There are already players from the U.S., Canada, Japan, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, etc. playing in the Major Leagues. There is no reason for the WBC to exist. And Dempster is not being ragged by all of Canada for not playing. Baseball is not the thing in Canada. Hockey is. There used to be two teams in Canada. One moved out of Montreal to Washington, as apathy would not be a strong enough word to describe what the people living there thought of the Expos. Now there's one. I heard at a recent WBC game in Toronto, featuring Team Canada, at 40,000+ seat Rogers Center, the citizens of Toronto were so enamoured with their national team, and the WBC, that somewhere in the neighborhood of 8,000 people showed up. Canada is not going bonkers over the WBC. And, most teams do not want their players playing in it. But, there has been a gag order of sorts from Who's Your Bud Selig, saying that they must temper their criticism of it.

soltrain21
03-17-2009, 02:03 PM
The WBC is pointless. What's the reason for it ? To see the best players in the world compete ? Oh, wait, I already do. It's called the MLB season. There are already players from the U.S., Canada, Japan, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, etc. playing in the Major Leagues. There is no reason for the WBC to exist. And Dempster is not being ragged by all of Canada for not playing. Baseball is not the thing in Canada. Hockey is. There used to be two teams in Canada. One moved out of Montreal to Washington, as apathy would not be a strong enough word to describe what the people living there thought of the Expos. Now there's one. I heard at a recent WBC game in Toronto, featuring Team Canada, at 40,000+ seat Rogers Center, the citizens of Toronto were so enamoured with their national team, and the WBC, that somewhere in the neighborhood of 8,000 people showed up. Canada is not going bonkers over the WBC. And, most teams do not want their players playing in it. But, there has been a gag order of sorts from Who's Your Bud Selig, saying that they must temper their criticism of it.

It's to make the world as a whole more interested in baseball, and I would say it's working quite well already with Netherlands and Italy fielding much better teams than before in a short amount of time.

TDog
03-17-2009, 02:07 PM
Okay. Cancel spring training for everyone except pitchers. Not needed.

Manny Ramirez seems to have canceled his spring training. Maybe he's just decided to take a break.

There was a time when there were no organized spring exhibition games, and teams just worked out among themselves and/or barnstormed to get in shape. There was a time when baseball players had off-season jobs and couldn't stay in baseball shape and the players who didn't need off-season jobs didn't care to stay in baseball shape. Exhibition games aren't as important for putting together a team as they were 40 years ago and probably only are necessary as a matter of getting pitchers in shape and promoting the upcoming season. By the sixth inning they have the feel of pickup games, but they are a harbinger of spring. Other sports, most notably football, shouldn't play exhibition games at all, but baseball has the most important tradition of pre-season exhibitions.

John Powers wrote a novel set in Chicago where a little boy tells a gas station attendant that a nun at school told him that you shouldn't throw snowballs because a few years earlier some kid's eye fell out after being hit with a snowball. The gas station attendant said that even if that story were true, if that is all it took for the kid to lose an eye, the eye was probably going to fall out anyway.

If players are hurt simply playing in the WBC, they probably shouldn't be playing in exhibition games.

oeo
03-17-2009, 03:01 PM
Okay. Cancel spring training for everyone except pitchers. Not needed.

Okay, since that's what I said.

It's a good opportunity to sharpen your skills before the season, but to say the guys can't come in and jump right into competitive baseball is ridiculous. They don't do it in Spring Training because there is no reason to, but that does not mean that they can't do it.

Spring Training isn't the time to get into shape, it's the time to get ready for the season. The competitiveness of the WBC probably does that a lot better than a bunch of exhibition games.

MarkZ35
03-17-2009, 03:01 PM
Um, the MLB, via Selig, *created* the WBC. Your comment makes no sense.

But that's what I'm saying is if the MLB was so against it Selig and the PA wouldn't allow the players to play in it. They understand the fact that players may get hurt but that may happen in any game. It's suppose to be a way to bring competitive baseball to fans earlier in the year and let baseball grow worldwide.

Lip Man 1
03-17-2009, 03:35 PM
Mark:

Actually the only real reason the MLBPA OK'd this was as a future chip in negotiations.

They saw how badly Proud To Be Your Bud wanted this and basically said to themselves, 'OK we'll go along but then in the future when something really important is on the table we'll call the favor in...'

Lip

Eddo144
03-17-2009, 03:53 PM
I haven't been watching the WBC but I was listening to Ken Rosenthal on Mully and Hanley. He said that Brian McCann was playing the outfield in a game for team USA, and that team USA's manager was considering putting Ted Lilly in the outfield :o:.
This is key to me. Let's say, in White Sox spring training, three leftfielders all have nagging injuries and can't/shouldn't play. Guillen would never put Pierzynski in LF on his day off from catching (especially after the Toby Hall fiasco two years ago). Putting a player in an unfamiliar position in a meaningless game is a recipe for disaster. If I were a Braves fan, I'd be upset that my best player was forced to play out of position.

Though as a Sox fan, I'm quite content with Davey Johnson putting Ted Lilly in whatever position he feels like. :redneck

Eddo144
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
Mark:

Actually the only real reason the MLBPA OK'd this was as a future chip in negotiations.

They saw how badly Proud To Be Your Bud wanted this and basically said to themselves, 'OK we'll go along but then in the future when something really important is on the table we'll call the favor in...'

Lip
Lip, I agree with you 100% in this thread, but I think your argument would be more effective (and less like an agenda against the man) if you didn't resort to using a "funny" nickname when referring to Selig.

Iwritecode
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
Mark:

Actually the only real reason the MLBPA OK'd this was as a future chip in negotiations.

They saw how badly Proud To Be Your Bud wanted this and basically said to themselves, 'OK we'll go along but then in the future when something really important is on the table we'll call the favor in...'

Lip

Any actual proof of this or is it just speculation?