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View Full Version : Who's the 5th Outfielder?


Tragg
03-14-2009, 06:04 PM
Can't see us going with both Owens and Wise.
Might have an opportunity to put a good bench bat on the roster.

SoxGirl4Life
03-14-2009, 06:35 PM
josh kroeger went 3 for 4 today. and he could back up Paulie too

JorgeFabregas
03-14-2009, 06:38 PM
They usually seem to prefer someone who also plays some infield for the 5th OF spot.

oeo
03-14-2009, 06:48 PM
They usually seem to prefer someone who also plays some infield for the 5th OF spot.

My guess would be Lillibridge. Solid defense up the middle and good speed off the bench.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-14-2009, 07:02 PM
Is Anderson assumed to be one of the first four outfielders? Or is he totally out of the picture?

Tragg
03-14-2009, 07:07 PM
Is Anderson assumed to be one of the first four outfielders?
I would assume so.
I guess we'll take 5 infielders; in the last few years we had someone who could play infield and outfield in that spot.

WHILEPITCH
03-14-2009, 07:07 PM
Still kid gloves for Linebrink so extra reliever, just rely on Alexei for emergency OF situations.

There's always the utility that Lillibridge would bring, but I think they're gonna try to cover IF with Betemit for at least the first half and see how it goes. Lillibridge still would benefit from playing each day.

EMachine10
03-14-2009, 07:13 PM
Is Anderson assumed to be one of the first four outfielders? Or is he totally out of the picture?
He'll be on the team.

LITTLE NELL
03-14-2009, 07:17 PM
BA or Wise will be the the starting CFer or 4th outfielder, especially after todays Grand Slam and a dinger yesterday by Anderson. Owens will be the odd man out with Lillibridge as 5th outfielder.

WhiteSox1989
03-14-2009, 07:30 PM
Anderson's defense puts him on the team.

I am really considered about CF though, because I wouldn't necessarily want Anderson starting. Or Owens. Or Wise.

veeter
03-14-2009, 09:22 PM
josh kroeger went 3 for 4 today. and he could back up Paulie tooThat's my pick. Kind of Gload's role only a better hitter. Owens starts the year riding buses, IMO.

veeter
03-14-2009, 09:24 PM
Is Anderson assumed to be one of the first four outfielders? Or is he totally out of the picture?I'm dying to know why you'd think Anderson might be out of the picture.:scratch:

It's Dankerific
03-14-2009, 09:33 PM
I'm dying to know why you'd think Anderson might be out of the picture.:scratch:

Probably 3 HRs in 2 games, including a walkoff granny.

Bucky F. Dent
03-14-2009, 10:04 PM
Is Anderson assumed to be one of the first four outfielders? Or is he totally out of the picture?


I suspect that Anderson will platoon with Wise in centre (hockey term) and Lillibridge will fill the IF/OF slot.....what Nell said.

102605
03-14-2009, 10:11 PM
Who is the 3rd OF? :scratch:

HebrewHammer
03-14-2009, 10:15 PM
That's my pick. Kind of Gload's role only a better hitter. Owens starts the year riding buses, IMO.

No one is better than Ross Gload!!! HE JUST NEEDS AT BATS!!!

Quentin4prez
03-14-2009, 10:30 PM
kroeger went 3-4? was it a split squad or exhabition? anyway does lilli play any CF and why hasnt he been put in the outfield yet.

Soxaredabest
03-15-2009, 01:54 AM
That's my pick. Kind of Gload's role only a better hitter. Owens starts the year riding buses, IMO.

That is my prediction as well.

kittle42
03-15-2009, 05:43 AM
I suspect that Anderson will platoon with Wise in centre (hockey term) and Lillibridge will fill the IF/OF slot.....what Nell said.

This is pretty likely, and fine by me, given our current personnel.

Chrisaway
03-15-2009, 07:30 AM
I suspect that Anderson will platoon with Wise in centre (hockey term) and Lillibridge will fill the IF/OF slot.....what Nell said.
That's exactly what I'm thinking with Wise/Getz platooning at leadoff.

Frater Perdurabo
03-15-2009, 07:38 AM
Owens should try out for the Bears. They always need help at WR.

cws05champ
03-15-2009, 09:12 AM
We still have a few weeks to go, but I really hope they don't take Owens North if he plays like THIS the whole spring. Kroeger and Beckham are making it really difficult for the coaching staff.

OF: Wise, BA,TCQ, Dye, Kroeger
IF: Fields, TCM, Getz, Konerko, Betemit, Lillibridge, AJ, C.Miller
DH: Thome
SP: Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Colon, Contreras
BP: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Richard, Carrasco

That's my 25 man as of right now....

voodoochile
03-15-2009, 09:15 AM
We still have a few weeks to go, but I really hope they don't take Owens North if he plays like THIS the whole spring. Kroeger and Beckham are making it really difficult for the coaching staff.

OF: Wise, BA,TCQ, Dye, Kroeger
IF: Fields, TCM, Getz, Konerko, Betemit, Lillibridge, AJ, C.Miller
DH: Thome
SP: Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Colon, Contreras
BP: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Richard, Carrasco

That's my 25 man as of right now....

I'll be surprised if the Sox only carry 6 relievers. That's why a guy who can cover both IF and OF is so necessary.

Quentin4prez
03-15-2009, 09:21 AM
when is the first ST start for Count and Colon? i know they both have scheduled starts coming up but can not find the dates.

voodoochile
03-15-2009, 09:32 AM
when is the first ST start for Count and Colon? i know they both have scheduled starts coming up but can not find the dates.

I think it's today and tomorrow. Check the thread that talks about them in this forum.

SoxGirl4Life
03-15-2009, 09:39 AM
when is the first ST start for Count and Colon? i know they both have scheduled starts coming up but can not find the dates.
Contreras starts today. but only mlb audio is available

WHILEPITCH
03-15-2009, 11:56 AM
We still have a few weeks to go, but I really hope they don't take Owens North if he plays like THIS the whole spring. Kroeger and Beckham are making it really difficult for the coaching staff.

OF: Wise, BA,TCQ, Dye, Kroeger
IF: Fields, TCM, Getz, Konerko, Betemit, Lillibridge, AJ, C.Miller
DH: Thome
SP: Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Colon, Contreras
BP: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Richard, Carrasco

That's my 25 man as of right now....

With maybe the exception of Kroeger, I think this is mine too.

But in the Sox's mind, do you think they are ready to have Lillibridge not play everyday? Granted he's not super young, but he may just waste away up here.

BadBobbyJenks
03-15-2009, 11:58 AM
So Brian Anderson hit two home runs and a walk off grandslam last night? Was this on TV and how has he looked at the plate besides yesterday?

cws05champ
03-15-2009, 01:24 PM
With maybe the exception of Kroeger, I think this is mine too.

But in the Sox's mind, do you think they are ready to have Lillibridge not play everyday? Granted he's not super young, but he may just waste away up here.
I Lillibridge is what he is. He'll be a versatile glove off the bench and a pinch runner. I don't know if he'll advance much past that, but I think that's what the Sox need him for this year.

pearso66
03-15-2009, 01:56 PM
So Brian Anderson hit two home runs and a walk off grandslam last night? Was this on TV and how has he looked at the plate besides yesterday?

I think he was 3-4 yesterday with 2 home runs (1 a grand slam) and a walk. Yes it was on TV. I thought he looked pretty good at the plate, but it's hard to look bad with 2 homers. I liked the fact that he took a walk, if he's seeing the ball better, maybe he can get that OBP up, and he might finally deserve that starting job.

As for Lillibridge in the OF, they put him in CF yesterday, I didn't notice him do anything though.

SoxGirl4Life
03-15-2009, 03:06 PM
I think he was 3-4 yesterday with 2 home runs (1 a grand slam) and a walk. Yes it was on TV. I thought he looked pretty good at the plate, but it's hard to look bad with 2 homers. I liked the fact that he took a walk, if he's seeing the ball better, maybe he can get that OBP up, and he might finally deserve that starting job.

As for Lillibridge in the OF, they put him in CF yesterday, I didn't notice him do anything though.

I thought he had really good at-bats yesterday. Showed some patience and he hit one HR off a lefty and one off a righty, so maybe he's seeing the ball better off the right handers.

EnglishChiSox
03-15-2009, 03:40 PM
I Lillibridge is what he is. He'll be a versatile glove off the bench and a pinch runner. I don't know if he'll advance much past that, but I think that's what the Sox need him for this year.


I agree, if he gets sent down to Charlotte he'll have to play the outfield if Beckham starts in Charlotte as well (Although it's just as likely Becks will go to Birmingham i guess)

champagne030
03-15-2009, 03:45 PM
So Brian Anderson hit two home runs and a walk off grandslam last night? Was this on TV and how has he looked at the plate besides yesterday?

One was against a RH, which I heard is impossible. Never mind the fact that 8 of his 18 homers are against RH pitchers. Some people like to suck the Kool-Aid. :scratch:

Rohan
03-15-2009, 04:02 PM
Is Anderson assumed to be one of the first four outfielders? Or is he totally out of the picture?

Ozzie already said that Anderson is guaranteed a spot on the 25 man roster.

Tragg
03-15-2009, 04:13 PM
I thought he had really good at-bats yesterday. Showed some patience and he hit one HR off a lefty and one off a righty, so maybe he's seeing the ball better off the right handers.
From what I understand, he sees righties better than lefties. His lack of homers against righties is due to extreme rare plate appearances against them.

LITTLE NELL
03-15-2009, 05:03 PM
Ozzie already said that Anderson is guaranteed a spot on the 25 man roster.
As we speak BA is tied for team lead in HRs and RBIs, put him in CF and leave him there to either sink or swim.

It's Dankerific
03-15-2009, 06:29 PM
As we speak BA is tied for team lead in HRs and RBIs, put him in CF and leave him there to either sink or swim.

but he's not FAST and doesn't bat LH!!!

SoxGirl4Life
03-15-2009, 06:38 PM
but he's not FAST and doesn't bat LH!!!

:scratch:

I think he's doing great!

It's Dankerific
03-15-2009, 08:37 PM
:scratch:

I think he's doing great!

Unfortunately, You do not make the lineup.

bradchifan3
03-15-2009, 10:22 PM
but he's not FAST and doesn't bat LH!!!

LOL

So true! I hate that the Sox are obsessed with having a fast lefty leading off. It drives me bonkers.

jabrch
03-15-2009, 11:21 PM
I really don't envision Kroeger making the club. He very well may - I just don't see it.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-16-2009, 09:56 AM
Ozzie already said that Anderson is guaranteed a spot on the 25 man roster.

Well, I thought I remembered hearing that, but there seems to be so much controversy surrounding Anderson that you can never tell. By the way, is he out of options? Also, with Kroeger, where did he come from, and does he have options left? I'd never heard of him before, which makes me suspect he was a non-roster invitee, but he's hit pretty well, so it would be nice not to lose him.

As for Anderson, I really hope that he can start to hit. If he could become a decent hitter and Ozzie would trust him, that would make our outfield a lot better.

bradchifan3
03-16-2009, 10:04 AM
Well, I thought I remembered hearing that, but there seems to be so much controversy surrounding Anderson that you can never tell. By the way, is he out of options? Also, with Kroeger, where did he come from, and does he have options left? I'd never heard of him before, which makes me suspect he was a non-roster invitee, but he's hit pretty well, so it would be nice not to lose him.

As for Anderson, I really hope that he can start to hit. If he could become a decent hitter and Ozzie would trust him, that would make our outfield a lot better.

99% sure Anderson is out of options. He is going to be the 4th outfielder at worst though so that doesn't matter.

Heffalump
03-16-2009, 10:17 AM
Anderson still has one option left.

I believe Owens and Wise are out of options.

kittle42
03-16-2009, 10:22 AM
99% sure Anderson is out of options. He is going to be the 4th outfielder at worst though so that doesn't matter.

Anderson still has one option left.

I believe Owens and Wise are out of options.

Anderson's a lock for the roster. One of the other two jokers will go bye-bye.

NLaloosh
03-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Anderson should definitely be the starting CFer. Owens should be sent to Charlotte or outrighted. The 4th OFer should be either Wise or Kroeger.

kittle42
03-16-2009, 12:54 PM
Anderson should definitely be the starting CFer. Owens should be sent to Charlotte or outrighted. The 4th OFer should be either Wise or Kroeger.

Guillen will platoon Wise and Anderson. Kroeger, I think, has no shot at making the team over Wise.

palehozenychicty
03-16-2009, 12:55 PM
Anderson should definitely be the starting CFer. Owens should be sent to Charlotte or outrighted. The 4th OFer should be either Wise or Kroeger.


I agree. BTW, do people think that Marquez will start in long relief? His overall lines look solid, but I haven't actually seen him throw yet.

jabrch
03-16-2009, 01:24 PM
I agree. BTW, do people think that Marquez will start in long relief? His overall lines look solid, but I haven't actually seen him throw yet.

Not that it means anything - but his last outing was awful...

I think there are a few options for the LR role. Poreda and Marquez are two of the front runners. Depending on the rotation, Richard and Broadway also get mentioned.

JVB has seemingly pitched himself out of the discussion - which is good.

palehozenychicty
03-16-2009, 01:26 PM
Not that it means anything - but his last outing was awful...

I think there are a few options for the LR role. Poreda and Marquez are two of the front runners. Depending on the rotation, Richard and Broadway also get mentioned.

JVB has seemingly pitched himself out of the discussion - which is good.


I did see the last boxscore for Marquez and he was terrible. But otherwise, he's been fine overall. Basically, we still don't know about him yet. I'd be surprised if Broadway made it over Marquez, but stranger things have happened.

Yes, thank god that JVB is who we thought he was.

jabrch
03-16-2009, 01:55 PM
Yes, thank god that JVB is who we thought he was.

I wish he wasn't. I'm glad he has shown it early and didn't tease us.

That said, not seeing much more than a few ABs and a box score, I have no clue how these guys have looked and in which ABs they are "working on something" or when they are going at it normally.

I'm glad our big Q is around LR and less around #4 SP as it was when they were getting to camp. Still not sure who ends up in #4 and #5, but I feel a lot more comfortable today than in January.

A. Cavatica
03-16-2009, 07:13 PM
Well, I thought I remembered hearing that, but there seems to be so much controversy surrounding Anderson that you can never tell.

You're right to be skeptical, but not just because Anderson is controversial -- you should be skeptical because 90% of what comes out of Ozzie's mouth is stream-of-consciousness garbage.

It's Dankerific
03-17-2009, 06:41 PM
Didn't get a chance to watch the game, but just took a look at the final box score. we lost in the 10th. Here are some interesting tidbits.

Richard : 5 innings, 2 runs, 3 hits -pretty good
Betemit : 3/5, 3 RBI - continues to hit well
Brian Anderson : 3/5, run scored, outfield assist from CF, bringing his ST average up to .282
Jerry Owens : 1/3, no runs scored, ST average bumped up to .233
AJ : 2/4, 2 runs scored

dagame2005
03-17-2009, 07:34 PM
Brian is hitting the ball well all of the sudden. I'd imagine that even as the 4th outfielder (likely), he will see 300 AB or so.

DumpJerry
03-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Brian is hitting the ball well all of the sudden. I'd imagine that even as the 4th outfielder (likely), he will see 300 AB or so.
He's been lurking here and realizes what we think.

SBSoxFan
03-17-2009, 10:01 PM
He's been lurking here and realizes what we think.

Well, there's that and the fact that Walker has been working with Brian on his swing plane. It seems like most people around here feel Walker is useless, but is it possible Walker is helping Anderson? It seems he's helped Fields too.

Anderson has been impressive lately. And how many outfield assists does he have now --- 4 or 5?

It's also nice to see the Sox rally late in the game once again, and this time against a guy who is going to be with the big league club.

DumpJerry
03-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Each year BA looks more promising than the previous. Then April rolls around......

It's Dankerific
03-17-2009, 11:56 PM
Each year BA looks more promising than the previous. Then April rolls around......

and they sit him on the bench for extended periods till he gets cold.

I wish they'd just play him the month of April. If he sucks, I'd be one to never mention his name again. At some point, he deserves a real shot. He's creeping up on Wise's ST numbers now. (or already ahead).

beasly213
03-18-2009, 12:07 AM
and they sit him on the bench for extended periods till he gets cold.

I wish they'd just play him the month of April. If he sucks, I'd be one to never mention his name again. At some point, he deserves a real shot. He's creeping up on Wise's ST numbers now. (or already ahead).

So I guess 2006 wasn't a real shot?

voodoochile
03-18-2009, 12:09 AM
So I guess 2006 wasn't a real shot?

Please... not again... just let it be... No one's going to win this argument...

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 12:18 AM
So I guess 2006 wasn't a real shot?

Nope. For reasons that have been posted a thousand times.

Please... not again... just let it be... No one's going to win this argument...

Voodoo is right.

We should only talk about new stuff, not the past. What we have now is a CF candidate that is hitting .280, among the team leaders in HR and RBI and has been making outfield assists regularly.

That person deserves a chance in 2009 to play everyday.

kittle42
03-18-2009, 03:55 AM
I wish they'd just play him the month of April. If he sucks, I'd be one to never mention his name again.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE play Anderson every inning in April.

BadBobbyJenks
03-18-2009, 04:07 AM
Anderson 3-5 versus Arizona. Is he heating up?

EnglishChiSox
03-18-2009, 07:01 AM
Nope. For reasons that have been posted a thousand times.



Voodoo is right.

We should only talk about new stuff, not the past. What we have now is a CF candidate that is hitting .280, among the team leaders in HR and RBI and has been making outfield assists regularly.

That person deserves a chance in 2009 to play everyday.

Noone is winning that argument either.

Impress from Clayton Richard, 5 innings already, must have been efficient.

bradchifan3
03-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Anderson 3-5 versus Arizona. Is he heating up?

If BA plays the way we all hoped he would a few years ago, wow, watch out. We suddenly turn into a very dangerous team!

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 10:14 AM
If BA plays the way we all hoped he would a few years ago, wow, watch out. We suddenly turn into a very dangerous team!

Hes gotta have a chance in the lineup though. Playing 1-2 times a week against LH is only going to cool him down.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 10:16 AM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE play Anderson every inning in April.

Glad you are on board.

Noone is winning that argument either.

Impress from Clayton Richard, 5 innings already, must have been efficient.

Noone is winning that argument because it shouldn't be an argument, it should be obvious.

kittle42
03-18-2009, 10:19 AM
Glad you are on board.

Whatever it takes to end this argument is what I am in favor of.

Noone is winning that argument because it shouldn't be an argument, it should be obvious.

Can we all just agree to stop? At least until the season starts?

Madscout
03-18-2009, 10:29 AM
Hes gotta have a chance in the lineup though. Playing 1-2 times a week against LH is only going to cool him down.
I'm on board with this. His defense justifies him playing 5 days a week and hittting .260. I'm sure our pitchers would agree.

jabrch
03-18-2009, 10:35 AM
Well, there's that and the fact that Walker has been working with Brian on his swing plane. It seems like most people around here feel Walker is useless, but is it possible Walker is helping Anderson? It seems he's helped Fields too.

Anderson has been impressive lately. And how many outfield assists does he have now --- 4 or 5?

It's also nice to see the Sox rally late in the game once again, and this time against a guy who is going to be with the big league club.


Fields was fine before this season. If it weren't for having to play on one leg last year, who knows what he might have been able to do.

Nice to see BA hit. I don't believe it anymore than I believe what Wise has done. This is still ST and the stats still don't mean much. Is there a point of view from someone who's opinion actually matters, not just who reads a box score, as to what exactly BA is doing, and if he looks to be in a better position to hit consistently against major league pitching, or if this, like Wise, is the statistical anomoly that results from a very small sample size?

And I am not about ready to give Walker credit for BA (or anyone else's) turnaround based on stats as of 3/17. Brian has 40 ABs. Josh as 26. Kroeger is hitting .316 in 38 ABs too.

ST stats, like Wise hitting .310, still mean very little. I trust the opinions of those who judge the ABs as something other than binary far greater than I trust what I (or anyone else) can get from a freaking ST box score.

Miller is hitting .438 - also worth very little.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 10:36 AM
Whatever it takes to end this argument is what I am in favor of.



Can we all just agree to stop? At least until the season starts?

Interesting that the usual suspects were very loud early in ST, but have all clammed up as BA has found his stroke and is playing very well. While Mr. Wise seems to have gotten cold as the pitchers warm up.

Imagine, a player needing a few weeks of ST to get ready offensively. At least he was still catching balls and making assists unlike the other candidates.

bradchifan3
03-18-2009, 10:38 AM
Hes gotta have a chance in the lineup though. Playing 1-2 times a week against LH is only going to cool him down.

I love this guy.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 10:39 AM
Fields was fine before this season. If it weren't for having to play on one leg last year, who knows what he might have been able to do.

Nice to see BA hit. I don't believe it anymore than I believe what Wise has done. This is still ST and the stats still don't mean much. Is there a point of view from someone who's opinion actually matters, not just who reads a box score, as to what exactly BA is doing, and if he looks to be in a better position to hit consistently against major league pitching, or if this, like Wise, is the statistical anomoly that results from a very small sample size?

And I am not about ready to give Walker credit for BA (or anyone else's) turnaround based on stats as of 3/17. Brian has 40 ABs. Josh as 26. Kroeger is hitting .316 in 38 ABs too.

ST stats, like Wise hitting .310, still mean very little. I trust the opinions of those who judge the ABs as something other than binary far greater than I trust what I (or anyone else) can get from a freaking ST box score.

Miller is hitting .438 - also worth very little.

Great add jabrch. We all know how KW feels about Brian, and I KNOW his opinion matters to you.

If ST is worthless, why do you lower yourself to talk about it with us peasants?

voodoochile
03-18-2009, 10:41 AM
Interesting that the usual suspects were very loud early in ST, but have all clammed up as BA has found his stroke and is playing very well. While Mr. Wise seems to have gotten cold as the pitchers warm up.

Imagine, a player needing a few weeks of ST to get ready offensively. At least he was still catching balls and making assists unlike the other candidates.

Just tired of going round and round the same tree. Everyone hopes BA is having the breakout you insist he is. It will make all of us very happy to solve the CF issue once and for all with a guy who plays good defense and can hit well too.

Good Luck, BA. Hope you kick some major ass...

kittle42
03-18-2009, 10:47 AM
Interesting that the usual suspects were very loud early in ST, but have all clammed up as BA has found his stroke and is playing very well.

Yes, you know why it is interesting? Because your belief that any of us is "against" Anderson and wishing him ill is COMPLETE BULL****.

I said last week that I was happy that the play of Wise and Anderson seemingly means Owens is bye, bye. I hope one/both/either of them continue to play really, really well. Right now, a platoon is likely - we'll see, but this is certainly a much better situation than all of them performing like Owens! I'd love for one of them to play well enough to be an everyday starter once the season gets going. A regular player is certainly preferable to a platoon.

kittle42
03-18-2009, 10:47 AM
Just tired of going round and round the same tree. Everyone hopes BA is having the breakout you insist he is. It will make all of us very happy to solve the CF issue once and for all with a guy who plays good defense and can hit well too.

Good Luck, BA. Hope you kick some major ass...

Thank you. But for soem reason, I think Dankerific and crew will only be happy if they can paint us as their polar opposites in thought and fandom.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 10:49 AM
Yes, you know why it is interesting? Because your belief that any of us is "against" Anderson and wishing him ill is COMPLETE BULL****.

I said last week that I was happy that the play of Wise and Anderson seemingly means Owens is bye, bye. I hope one/both/either of them continue to play really, really well. Right now, a platoon is likely - we'll see, but this is certainly a much better situation than all of them performing like Owens!

Good start trying to rewrite history as it looks more and more possible that BA gets a chance to break out.

I seem to remember 3 piles of **** being brought up more than once.

voodoochile
03-18-2009, 10:52 AM
Good start trying to rewrite history as it looks more and more possible that BA gets a chance to break out.

I seem to remember 3 piles of **** being brought up more than once.

Just because we think all three of them suck doesn't mean we hope that they continue to suck.

I truly hope that the former steaming pile of **** known as Brian Anderson tears the cover off the ball against all pitchers and becomes the player you insist he already is.

See? Not so hard now is it?

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 11:04 AM
Sure seems like a different standard being applied towards fandom when you remember how the people who REALLY hoped Paul Konerko would stop playing like a big pile of **** last season, go with a platoon situation there until someone stopped playing like a big pile of **** and requested someone else play the position, someone who wouldnt play like a big pile of ****, were treated.

Also, can we please characterize a players play as possibly being a pile of **** without attributing it to the person being a pile of ****? I did it too and edited it. I'm sure all the players are better than ****.

beasly213
03-18-2009, 11:17 AM
Sure seems like a different standard being applied towards fandom when you remember how the people who REALLY hoped Paul Konerko would stop playing like a big pile of **** last season, go with a platoon situation there until someone stopped playing like a big pile of **** and requested someone else play the position, someone who wouldnt play like a big pile of ****, were treated.

Also, can we please characterize a players play as possibly being a pile of **** without attributing it to the person being a pile of ****? I did it too and edited it. I'm sure all the players are better than ****.

This post made my head hurt... too many pile of **** references.

Honestly though I would love love love Anderson to be able to start everyday and hit even .250. It would solve a lot of problems but he seems to be in Ozzies dog house and has not been able to get out of it while Wise is in Ozzies whatever the opposite of dog house is and is busting his ass every day and making a good impression.

While I don't want Wise to be the starter every day in CF I think more often than not he's going to be.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 11:22 AM
This post made my head hurt... too many pile of **** references.

Honestly though I would love love love Anderson to be able to start everyday and hit even .250. It would solve a lot of problems but he seems to be in Ozzies dog house and has not been able to get out of it while Wise is in Ozzies whatever the opposite of dog house is and is busting his ass every day and making a good impression.

While I don't want Wise to be the starter every day in CF I think more often than not he's going to be.

I'm being lulled into believing in fairness again. If you noticed, in the offseason, I just basically said it didnt matter what Brian did, that he was going to be sitting the bench.

In spring, hope has begun to blossom again. It doesn't make sense for the management to give Brian a good amount of at bats, let him succeed, and then cut him off at the knees again. I know I'm supposed to learn from history, but I'm honestly getting excited.

Excited to see one of my favorite current players get a chance to play and excited because I truly believe it could help our pitchers, our team succeed.

bradchifan3
03-18-2009, 11:44 AM
I'm being lulled into believing in fairness again. If you noticed, in the offseason, I just basically said it didnt matter what Brian did, that he was going to be sitting the bench.

In spring, hope has begun to blossom again. It doesn't make sense for the management to give Brian a good amount of at bats, let him succeed, and then cut him off at the knees again. I know I'm supposed to learn from history, but I'm honestly getting excited.

Excited to see one of my favorite current players get a chance to play and excited because I truly believe it could help our pitchers, our team succeed.

Didn't he play really well last spring too but then they but Alexei in CF to start? Ozzie drives me nuts sometimes...

kittle42
03-18-2009, 12:21 PM
Just because we think all three of them suck doesn't mean we hope that they continue to suck.

I truly hope that the former steaming pile of **** known as Brian Anderson tears the cover off the ball against all pitchers and becomes the player you insist he already is.

See? Not so hard now is it?

Thanks again, VDC. And Dankerific - I think the Konerko bashers were nicely bashed and marginalized.

The thing is, there is no winning with you guys. If Guillen plays any kind of a platoon, you'll gripe. If Anderson starts five consecutive games, goes 0-for-20, and sits, you'll gripe, pointing to other players who played through longer stints than that. There will always be something.

The best thing for the Sox, and the sanity of many of us here, is if Anderson hits .300+ with power. That's what I hope for.

None of this is revisionist history - I challenge you to find anytime I wished Anderson would not play well and benefit the Sox. My sarcastic posts regarding his retirement were really just wishes that this argument would end.

Frater Perdurabo
03-18-2009, 12:24 PM
Didn't he play really well last spring too but then they but Alexei in CF to start? Ozzie drives me nuts sometimes...

If Ozzie puts Alexei - his starting shortstop - in CF in 2009 he ought to be flogged.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 12:28 PM
The thing is, there is no winning with you guys. If Guillen plays any kind of a platoon, you'll gripe. If Anderson starts five consecutive games, goes 0-for-20, and sits, you'll gripe, pointing to other players who played through longer stints than that. There will always be something.

The best thing for the Sox, and the sanity of many of us here, is if Anderson hits .300+ with power. That's what I hope for.

Anderson shouldn't be handcuffed with a platoon. You can't expect a Anderson supporter to think that its best for him (and the team) to hardly ever get to play. Your rules for "winning" specifically go against believing BA should be there everyday.

I don't know how to look it up, but I doubt Anderson has ever went 0-20 in 5 consecutive games. Even still, you're just making vague generalizations. Its about context.

kittle42
03-18-2009, 12:35 PM
Anderson shouldn't be handcuffed with a platoon. You can't expect a Anderson supporter to think that its best for him (and the team) to hardly ever get to play. Your rules for "winning" specifically go against believing BA should be there everyday.

Am I correct, then, that you will have an issue as long as Anderson doesn't play every single day, or at least 6/7 days a week, no matter his short-term performance?

And no, I don't necessarily think a platoon = winning. You continue to attempt to make me "anti-BA" because it is the only position you can "effectively" argue against. I am saying what I believe Guillen will do. I said I think a permanent fixture is better than a platoon. However, a platoon is what a team does (and many teams do it) when they do not have one standout player at a certain position.

I don't know how to look it up, but I doubt Anderson has ever went 0-20 in 5 consecutive games. Even still, you're just making vague generalizations. Its about context.

Hence the "if."

WHILEPITCH
03-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Please... not again... just let it be... No one's going to win this argument...Hehe - well will one side convince the other? Maybe never.

But by career's end, we'll know whether BA was an all-around player, or a defensive player.




There have been plenty of guys who irked me to end but I cheer them on in games endlessly, hoping it turns around. Then they dont, and I go on message boards to complain. Exhibit A Eddy Curry.

It doesnt mean I was against him doing well. But I had formulated a hypothesis that his extended play was bad for the team, and his career became devoted to unintentionally proving said hypothesis correct. It's not my fault my suspicion was right.

Frater Perdurabo
03-18-2009, 12:48 PM
I would prefer that BA is the regular starting CF, but I would be OK with a Wise/BA platoon. The "ideal" platoon would have Wise and BA both getting two plate appearances each night. I hesitate to prescribe a strict formula, but this is how I'd generally do a platoon:

V. RHP starters at the Cell: Wise starts, BA finishes
V. LHP starters at the Cell: BA starts, Wise finishes
V. RHP starters on the road: Wise starts, BA finishes
V. LHP starters on the road: BA plays entire game (keeps his glove out there in the OFs larger than the Cell)

beasly213
03-18-2009, 02:10 PM
I figured it out. Brian Anderson is the White Sox version of Rex Grossman.

Some Love him Some Hate him beyond reason.

I hope he ends up staying hot and stays our CF all year long.

kittle42
03-18-2009, 02:28 PM
I figured it out. Brian Anderson is the White Sox version of Rex Grossman.

Some Love him Some Hate him beyond reason.

I hope he ends up staying hot and stays our CF all year long.

Another parallel - both Bears QB race is always between guys you wish weren't battling for starting QB!

However, I don't think anyone hates Brian Anderson at all, so I very, very much disagree with you there.

You know, that's really starting to get to me - how is anyone convinced that any of us hate Brian Anderson? The FOBAs have done well!

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 02:29 PM
Am I correct, then, that you will have an issue as long as Anderson doesn't play every single day, or at least 6/7 days a week, no matter his short-term performance?

And no, I don't necessarily think a platoon = winning. You continue to attempt to make me "anti-BA" because it is the only position you can "effectively" argue against. I am saying what I believe Guillen will do. I said I think a permanent fixture is better than a platoon. However, a platoon is what a team does (and many teams do it) when they do not have one standout player at a certain position.


I dont really understand your question. If Anderson is performing well in not 6/7 days a week, I will have an issue of why hes not playing as a starter. I am also going to have an issue if he's playing 2 times a week against the nasty LHP and not doing as well as he could be while someone else is barely serviceable in the field and at the plate.

I will not have an issue if a) Anderson gets 4-6 weeks of unfetterred starting duty and performs poorly or b) the White Sox acquire a better CF and I dont think Pierre or Coco Crisp would count.

thedudeabides
03-18-2009, 02:34 PM
I would prefer that BA is the regular starting CF, but I would be OK with a Wise/BA platoon. The "ideal" platoon would have Wise and BA both getting two plate appearances each night. I hesitate to prescribe a strict formula, but this is how I'd generally do a platoon:

V. RHP starters at the Cell: Wise starts, BA finishes
V. LHP starters at the Cell: BA starts, Wise finishes
V. RHP starters on the road: Wise starts, BA finishes
V. LHP starters on the road: BA plays entire game (keeps his glove out there in the OFs larger than the Cell)

Why is this ideal? I think it makes no sense.

So, BA starts and is 2-2 and coming up to bat against the pitcher for the third time, you yank him? Later in the game, they then bring in a tough specialist to face either hitter and you can't pinch hit because you used your bench in the fourth inning!!!

Everyone agrees BA is the better defender, so why would you not allow him to be available late in a tight game because you want to get both centerfielders two bats a game?

Your also weakening your bench, eliminating a possible pinch hitter or runner halfway through the game. Not to mention keeping both guys from ever getting into the flow of a ballgame.

Sorry Frater, this one is a little hair brained.

Johnny Mostil
03-18-2009, 02:35 PM
I figured it out. Brian Anderson is the White Sox version of Rex Grossman.

Some Love him Some Hate him beyond reason.

I hope he ends up staying hot and stays our CF all year long.

Hey! I called that (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2160016#post2160016) a month ago! I don't know if somebody called that before me, but I have too few original thoughts not to take credit for my possible ones!

kittle42
03-18-2009, 02:36 PM
I am also going to have an issue if he's playing 2 times a week against the nasty LHP and not doing as well as he could be while someone else is barely serviceable...

I'm starting to come along on this one. I think I used this same argument in favor of Ron Kittle after his first stint with the Sox. If those damn Yankees and Indians would have played him more instead of just matching him up against the other teams' crafty lefthanders, I am still convinced he would have been a 35/90 a year guy! Stupid managers. He was ROY, after all! Of course, I was 9.

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 02:49 PM
I'm starting to come along on this one. I think I used this same argument in favor of Ron Kittle after his first stint with the Sox. If those damn Yankees and Indians would have played him more instead of just matching him up against the other teams' crafty lefthanders, I am still convinced he would have been a 35/90 a year guy! Stupid managers. He was ROY, after all! Of course, I was 9.

Ron Kittle was cool, but he wasn't playing an elite CF either.

kittle42
03-18-2009, 02:53 PM
Ron Kittle was cool, but he wasn't playing an elite CF either.

I forgot about the "elite" part.

Frater Perdurabo
03-18-2009, 02:54 PM
Why is this ideal? I think it makes no sense.

So, BA starts and is 2-2 and coming up to bat against the pitcher for the third time, you yank him? Later in the game, they then bring in a tough specialist to face either hitter and you can't pinch hit because you used your bench in the fourth inning!!!

Everyone agrees BA is the better defender, so why would you not allow him to be available late in a tight game because you want to get both centerfielders two bats a game?

Your also weakening your bench, eliminating a possible pinch hitter or runner halfway through the game. Not to mention keeping both guys from ever getting into the flow of a ballgame.

Sorry Frater, this one is a little hair brained.

Reading is a skill. First I said that I preferred that BA be the primary starter. Next, I said that if a platoon was decided on, I would prefer that both players play every game if possible. Finally, I said "I hesitate to prescribe a strict formula, but this is how I'd generally do a platoon...." Obviously you play the hot hand and if a guy has a history of creaming a certain pitcher, you stick with him. Unfortunately you missed my subtlety and nuance and caricatured my proposition for being inflexible, when my own words demonstrated that I was trying to be flexible with an option that I didn't prefer in the first place!
:D:

It's Dankerific
03-18-2009, 02:57 PM
I forgot about the "elite" part.

and the "CF" too =)

beasly213
03-18-2009, 03:02 PM
Hey! I called that (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2160016#post2160016) a month ago! I don't know if somebody called that before me, but I have too few original thoughts not to take credit for my possible ones!

Ha credit officialy given! :cool:

Frater Perdurabo
03-18-2009, 03:14 PM
Back to the original question, "Who's the 5th Outfielder?"

I hope that they don't keep a guy on the roster just to be a 5th outfielder.

I'm content going into the season with Quentin, Dye, BA and Wise.

A 5th OF would just give Ozzie too many more options for CF. With Wise and BA, Ozzie can't put a completely terrible fielder in CF. (Wise is at least serviceable, better than Griffey, Mackowiak, Everett and Owens.)

I'd much rather have them keep an extra pitcher.

thedudeabides
03-18-2009, 03:17 PM
Reading is a skill. First I said that I preferred that BA be the primary starter. Next, I said that if a platoon was decided on, I would prefer that both players play every game if possible. Finally, I said "I hesitate to prescribe a strict formula, but this is how I'd generally do a platoon...." Obviously you play the hot hand and if a guy has a history of creaming a certain pitcher, you stick with him. Unfortunately you missed my subtlety and nuance and caricatured my proposition for being inflexible, when my own words demonstrated that I was trying to be flexible with an option that I didn't prefer in the first place!
:D:

OK, and I was just commenting on you listing out your preferred platoon idea. I will look harder for your nuance and subtelty in future posts.

Johnny Mostil
03-18-2009, 03:21 PM
Ha credit officialy given! :cool:

Thank you, kind friend!

I'm sure I'm not the first to observe that you can't have a thread mentioning Brian Anderson without a tomato . . .

:tomatoaward

Konerko05
03-18-2009, 03:34 PM
I don't think the Sox are going to carry a true 5th OF.

The Sox will mostly likely carry 12 pitchers to start the season. The bench will consist of...

Stewart/Miller/Armstrong
Wise/Anderson
Lillibridge
Betemit.

Lillibridge has to make the team. Betemit can not be the back up SS. I hope Guillen has played Betemit at SS enough to come to this conclusion. Lillibridge has also been getting innings in CF. He will act as utility IF/5th OF. Betemit will be backing up 3B and 1B.

russ99
03-18-2009, 04:36 PM
What's with this assumption that Owens is out? Last time I looked we have just under 3 weeks of camp left, with a CF decision to be made at the end.

Tragg
03-18-2009, 04:49 PM
What's with this assumption that Owens is out? Last time I looked we have just under 3 weeks of camp left, with a CF decision to be made at the end.
Probably some wishful thinking.
Owens is just awful.

Madscout
03-18-2009, 04:52 PM
What's with this assumption that Owens is out? Last time I looked we have just under 3 weeks of camp left, with a CF decision to be made at the end.
Unless he shows that he has something to add to the team, he isn't going to make it, not the way he is playing right now.

jabrch
03-18-2009, 05:19 PM
What's with this assumption that Owens is out? Last time I looked we have just under 3 weeks of camp left, with a CF decision to be made at the end.


I don't see how both Wise and Owens make it. Didn't from the beginning. And while ST stats are worth very little out of context, I have yet to see any context where Owens would have earned his keep over Wise.

Yes - 3 weeks left. But at this point, I can't see how JO isn't on the outside looking in.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-18-2009, 05:48 PM
I don't think the Sox are going to carry a true 5th OF.

The Sox will mostly likely carry 12 pitchers to start the season. The bench will consist of...

Stewart/Miller/Armstrong
Wise/Anderson
Lillibridge
Betemit.

Lillibridge has to make the team. Betemit can not be the back up SS. I hope Guillen has played Betemit at SS enough to come to this conclusion. Lillibridge has also been getting innings in CF. He will act as utility IF/5th OF. Betemit will be backing up 3B and 1B.

I agree that we don't need a true 5th OF. I think we will want the extra pitchers to begin with because we won't really know the status of the fifth, and perhaps fourth, starting pitcher. I don't think Colon will be ready, and Contreras might need a little extra work too. From the schedule, it looks like we won't need a fifth starter until the middle of April, so Richard could take the fourth spot until Jose is ready. Still, it would be good to have extra pitchers to jump in if somebody isn't ready for the regular season.

Also, I asked this before without a response, does anybody know what Kroeger's status is? Can he be optioned to the minors? He had some ML playing time with Arizona in 2004, but none since. Any additional info would be helpful.