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View Full Version : The Charges Against us the White Sox Fans


Viva Magglio
05-26-2002, 10:57 PM
The sports pundits on talk radio and in the newspapers assail us with charges regarding this and that. Here are a few of them followed by my response.
White Sox fans don't support the team.Unfortunately, there is some merit in this charge. I do support the team in my capacity as a split season ticket holder, and I do not mind the convenience of small crowds. They enhance my access to choice parking, concessions, restrooms, and views of the action from the main concourse. At the same time, I wish more of our fans would come out to the ballpark. I realize that we have had awful weather this spring, but we should be providing more support for our team.

Not that I agree with Ken Williams saying that we cannot make our team better because we fans don't come out to the ballpark, but it would be in our franchise's better interests if more of us White Sox fans went out to the ballpark. I am tired of going to games and seeing the eighth inning attendance quiz like this: A) 13,003, B) 12,383, C) 14,392. D) 12,001, E) 14,895.

I will not go into the multitude of reasons why our fans do not go out to the ballpark. I think most of them are petty cop outs based on half-truths and outright lies. Having said that, I think the primary reason our fellow fans stay away is because of Jerry Reinsdorf. Much of the malaise our franchise has endured these past several years has been due to Reinsdorf's frugality, blunders, and bad public relations gaffes.
White Sox fans have a jealous paranoia with the Cubs and are preoccupied with hating them more than supporting their own White Sox team.Fans of our team have disliked the Chicago National League Ballclub for many generations before ours. Ask any White Sox fan who their favorite teams are, and he or she will say "The White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs." No doubt, many of our fans follow the Cubs as well as our own team purely out of the desire to see them lose. However, how far is too far?

I believe there are some of those among us who are indeed more preoccupied with hating the Cubs than supporting our own team. Every time I go to the ballpark, I see people not wearing apparel with the words "White Sox" on them but "CUBS SUCK" or "Cubs Magic Number: 911." Do not get me wrong, for I do not disagree with these fans' sentiment. I used to own the "Top Ten Reasons Cubs Fans are Losers" shirts before donating them to St. Vincent DePaul in a clothing drive. However, I would much rather see those people wearing "ORDOŅEZ 30," "KONERKO 14," or even "CLAYTON 10" rather than the anti-Cubs shirts.

My dislike for the institution of the Chicago National League Ballclub is rising these days, but I never let that supersede my support of the White Sox. Remember, you are a White Sox fan first and foremost. People who claim to be White Sox fans but are more preoccupied with hating the Cubs than supporting the Chicago White Sox are a hypocritical embarrassment.

These days, the paranoia is ever-increasing. However, I do not think it is really driven out of the traditional dislike for the Chicago Cubs. Instead, it is the perceived lack of respect from the local media that is the key ingredient of this rising tide of paranoia. Most of us would agree that the media treats the Cubs with preferential treatment. Most of us would also agree that the media subject our team to much more scrutiny than the Cubs. This leads me to the next charge that is levied against us.
White Sox fans' claims that there is a media bias against their team are unfounded.The media is infallible in its own mind. Sports pundits love reminding anyone and everyone of their shortcomings. Yet, when their own integrity is questioned, the media assumes an arrogant defensive posture in defense of its self-perceived infallibility.

The media, particularly sports talk show hosts, get especially defensive whenever we make claims of media bias against them. They do one of two things when such charges are levied against them: 1) Deny that a media bias exists or 2) Claim that a media bias exists but justify it based on intangibles like lack of fan support or the Cubs having a larger fan base.

While I do not like our lack of fan support, these defensive mechanisms employed by the media are not justified. Both teams should be treated as equally as possible. It was an absolute travesty on Thursday when, for example, the Sun-Times gave us five pages of Priormania and only one page for us. I am convinced that the local media goes more "ga-ga" over Cubs success than our success. 1984 was bigger then 1983. 1998 was bigger and better than either 1993 or 2000 in their minds. In recent days, our move into first place (now a tie, once again) got little attention. Meanwhile on the North Side, a bad Cubs team on a five game winning streak has the media going "ga-ga" again.

The Chicago media needs to be more balances in its reporting. How does the New York media cover the Mets and the Yankees. Do Mets fans claim that the Big Apple media is biased against them in favor of the Yankees or vice-versa? How is each team scrutinized?

Remember that game against Cleveland when there were 15 fights in the stands? We got a lot of heat over that. Yet, how often do the Cubs get heat over incidents at Wrigley Field? During those long hot summer nights at Wrigley Field, fans in the bleachers often get frat party intoxicated and have a hard time holding their liquor. How many fights do they have at Wrigley Field on those nights?

Another popular example of unfair scrutiny is the belief that the neighborhood around Comiskey Park is unsafe. There is the Stateway Gardens public housing complex east across the Dan Ryan Expressway and the Armour Square Park neighborhood north of the ballpark. First of all, any dangerous effect of Stateway Gardens is neutralized by the presence of the Dan Ryan. There have been ugly incidents in Armour Square Park, but I do not believe they represent the neighborhood around Comiskey as a whole. Finally, it has been shown that the area around Wrigley Field has a higher crime rate than the area around Comiskey Park. Yet, we never hear that from the media, do we!

Tragg
05-26-2002, 11:17 PM
How can they accuse Sox fans of not focusing on the team when THEY don't focus on the team but focus on the fans?

LongDistanceFan
05-27-2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
How can they accuse Sox fans of not focusing on the team when THEY don't focus on the team but focus on the fans? good point

MikeKreevich
05-27-2002, 05:48 AM
Well thought out and nicely written V. M.

ISUSoxfan
05-27-2002, 06:24 AM
The Cubs suck and so do their fans. There might be a small risk of violence around Comiskey, but that is nothing compared to the high risk of alternative lifestyle fans around Wrigley worshiping Sammi.

The Old Comiskey was awesome, but the new park is just not worth the ridiculous prices. I would much rather stay home and watch the Sox win and the Cubs lose for free than spend $15 on gas, $13 on parking, and $18 on a ticket, only to have to turn around and drive 2 hours home after the game. Going with friends is supposed to cut the cost down, but try collecting gas and parking money from college students some time. ChiSoxFanatic still owes me from 3 weeks ago.

Sox games are fun, but going to the new park just isn't worth the money it costs, and we get a much better view on TV than we do from any seat in the upper deck. And the scorebord never shows any good replays. In order to see any close calls in slow mo, you have to stay home. The scoreboard opperators are much more concerned with their corporate sponsors and private groups than they are with the real fans at the game who want replays instead of advertisements and happy birthday messages on the scoreboard. Also, any park that has a stock report belongs north of the Loop.

Kilroy
05-27-2002, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
...the scorebord never shows any good replays. In order to see any close calls in slow mo, you have to stay home. The scoreboard opperators are much more concerned with their corporate sponsors and private groups than they are with the real fans at the game who want replays instead of advertisements and happy birthday messages on the scoreboard. Also, any park that has a stock report belongs north of the Loop.

I've seen plenty of bull**** reasons why people don't want to go to the games, but this is a new one on me.

Unfortunately ISU, the Comiskey scoreboard operators are not responsible for the close replays you don't see. It has nothing to do with collecting more advertising dollars or showing private group/birthday messages. MLB prohibits such replays. No ballpark in the league shows them. MLB doesn't want the umpires put in a position where the crowd would turn on them. I think that's a crock of ****, but it's the truth. Be mad about it, but don't blame the Sox.

As far as ticket prices, I don't know what to tell you except that you should consider half-price Mondays and Tuesdays. $6 gets u in the park. Imagine if you were trying to go to Fenway whose average ticket price is $36.

Look for yourself...

http://redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bos/ticketing/bos_seating_pricing.jsp?club_context=bos

kevingrt
05-27-2002, 10:40 AM
Great point V'M. I've been listening and reading the same radio stations and newspapers because I have heard the same claims. Loved the article

As for ISUSoxFan, Kilroy said the truth, MLB parks don't allow replays. I noticed it's come around with other sporting events to. I went to the NCAA this winter and they never showed replays either, it gets you mad but it shouldn't be a reason not to go to the ballpark. Hey and if you say our seating prices is too much. Well, I can tell you one thing Ares is lower then the league average. Look we have half-price Mondays and Pepsi half-price Tuesdays so I don't understand your beef. I do understand your parking beef because 13$ is too much to park, but look on the North-side of town, what does it cost, 20$ to park a regular car, more for a SUV.

Procol Harum
05-27-2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by kevingrt
I do understand your parking beef because 13$ is too much to park, but look on the North-side of town, what does it cost, 20$ to park a regular car, more for a SUV.

Yeah, but the cost on the North Side is because they have very little parking at all--it's a pretty pure example of the law of supply and demand. That said, anybody who would drive to Wrigley is out of their stinkin' mind....

The cost of parking at Comiskey, however, is particularly grating because : 1.) they have acres and acres of parking--space is not a consideration and it's not like we're in the Loop--under those sorts of similar circumstances where one parks in huge parking lots where one intends to drop massive buckage--i.e. at a shopping mall--there is no charge at all to park--by comparison it's irritating. Not that Sox parking should be free, but they have to realize how people's other experiences play into their perceptions--$13 is just too high, especially condsidering that in 2000 it was only $10; 2.) Comparative factors--parking at Miller Field is either $8 or $6 depending on which option you choose. Given the factors in point #1, it's bound to be perceived as a rip-off. It's just another in a long train of boo-boos by Sox management.

And nice analysis of the larger issue, VM.

alohafri
05-27-2002, 11:04 AM
(Hello again--it's Alohafri's wife--these opinions do not necessarily reflect those of Alohafri...)

I will repeat again what I said in an earlier post in a thread about the attendance issue, which is basically what this thread is about too.

Take away all of the tourists and Wrigley fans, and then let's see how many "real" cub fans show up at the urinal up north. I would love to see the attendance figures at (a new) Wrigley if they tore down the old one and put up a new one like Comiskey.
If you don't believe that there are that many tourists, go to a game at the urinal and observe the people there. Hardly any of them really pay attention to the game. And count the number of busses parked outside.

Again, Comiskey is not a tourist attraction. If it was, we would see several thousand more people every game. I don't think I've ever seen Comiskey described in any tour guides as a "must see" attraction or an "historical" site. But if you were coming to Chicago for the first time, chances are your travel agent would recommend that you "see historic wrigley field", whether you were a cub fan or not. I know plenty of people (Sox fans) who need to get tickets for cub games for their friends and/or business associates from out of town, people who are NOT cub fans.

We can feel proud that the people (well, maybe 90% of them) that DO go to Comiskey are there because they are SOX FANS. Even the players know this.

And I'll take a mostly empty park with a winner on the field over a packed (and stinky) park with a bunch of losers on the field.

MarqSox
05-27-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
The Cubs suck and so do their fans. There might be a small risk of violence around Comiskey, but that is nothing compared to the high risk of alternative lifestyle fans around Wrigley worshiping Sammi.


Yes, I too fear attacks from the gay community.

KruseControl04
05-27-2002, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan


the scorebord never shows any good replays. In order to see any close calls in slow mo, you have to stay home. The scoreboard opperators are much more concerned with their corporate sponsors and private groups than they are with the real fans at the game who want replays instead of advertisements and happy birthday messages on the scoreboard. Also, any park that has a stock report belongs north of the Loop.


OK, first off I think the reason that they don't replay close calls is because if it turns out that the guy was safe instead of out, the fans might go crazy and start throwing stuff at the umps or something. While I highly doubt that any true Sox fan would do this you have to remember that it could always happen. This is the reason that the Cubs do not show replays because if they did all the drunk fans would put there shirts back on, put down there beer and hang up there cell phone to run out on the field. Damn Cubs fans.

FarWestChicago
05-27-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by alohafri
(Hello again--it's Alohafri's wife--these opinions do not necessarily reflect those of Alohafri...) I love the disclaimers. :D:

Why don't you just register an ID, too? You make good posts and you wouldn't need to add the disclaimer. :smile:

cheeses_h_rice
05-27-2002, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


Yes, I too fear attacks from the gay community.

*****.

Well put, Marq.

kevingrt
05-27-2002, 12:41 PM
This is the reason that the Cubs do not show replays because if they did all the drunk fans would put there shirts back on, put down there beer and hang up there cell phone to run out on the field. Damn Cubs fans.

Wrigley Field doesn't have a digital scoreboard where they can show replays...

FanOf14
05-27-2002, 01:16 PM
I've only been to two games so far, but I am booked for at least 5 more this season. A big reason there is lower attendance at Comiskey (and other stadiums) is because of the anemic economy. The Sox aims for families. Two other reasons families probably aren't coming out yet is weather and that kids were still in school. On half price nights this is the cost for a 5 person family:

$6 for parking (as long as you get there 1.5 hrs before the game)
5*$6 for tickets
$20 for food (4.5 hrs in a park with food smells all over will get the most behaved kid whiney - $4 for each person is cheap, but I am suggesting bringing some food in with you)
______________________

$56 - this is without souvenirs

Depending on the family's economy this can be alot to give up every now and then.

Most people love to refute this, but I can tell you from experience that if a family's financials are tight, this is a lot of money even if it is only 2 or 3 times a year.

For fans that aren't married/no kids, it depends on their income and distance from the park. I like to get out as much as possible, but between the weather and some issues at work, I haven't had as many opportunities as I would like.

I think it would help as well if the media would at least stop knocking on Comiskey and its area. I'm not asking them to promote it (I don't think the media could handle that), just stop knocking it and attendance might pick up a bit. I've been going there with since I was 4 - at that time that was with 2 adult females and none of us were accosted or attacked or even looked at cross-eyed so I am sorry, but the neighborhood isn't that bad.

CLR01
05-27-2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by KruseControl04



OK, first off I think the reason that they don't replay close calls is because if it turns out that the guy was safe instead of out, the fans might go crazy and start throwing stuff at the umps or something. While I highly doubt that any true Sox fan would do this you have to remember that it could always happen. This is the reason that the Cubs do not show replays because if they did all the drunk fans would put there shirts back on, put down there beer and hang up there cell phone to run out on the field. Damn Cubs fans.


Okay now your just being foolish. Im sure the number of true fans that would start throwing things at the umps is about the same between the sox and cubs. Its the casual attendees for both teams that would be the biggest problem.

CLR01
05-27-2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt


Wrigley Field doesn't have a digital scoreboard where they can show replays...


Come on now, they could always have the scoreboard operator reenact it.

doublem23
05-27-2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by CLR01



Come on now, they could always have the scoreboard operator reenact it.

LOL!

Nice one, CLR.