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kittle42
03-02-2009, 02:12 PM
Can we please admit this thing is bad now? It includes LaTroy Hawkins.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3945363

TDog
03-02-2009, 03:04 PM
Can we please admit this thing is bad now? It includes LaTroy Hawkins.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3945363

What is your point? Is it bad because better pitchers than LaTroy Hawkins couldn't or wouldn't go? Or is it bad because players are absent from their teams to play games that don't count?

Nellie_Fox
03-02-2009, 03:15 PM
What is your point? Is it bad because better pitchers than LaTroy Hawkins couldn't or wouldn't go? Or is it bad because players are absent from their teams to play games that don't count?Yes.

munchman33
03-02-2009, 03:54 PM
What is your point? Is it bad because better pitchers than LaTroy Hawkins couldn't or wouldn't go? Or is it bad because players are absent from their teams to play games that don't count?

It's C. People are against it because it's a Selig invention.

There are no Olympics for baseball. If baseball is going to grow, events like this have to happen. At least Selig identified the need and did something about it.

FedEx227
03-02-2009, 03:54 PM
What is your point? Is it bad because better pitchers than LaTroy Hawkins couldn't or wouldn't go? Or is it bad because players are absent from their teams to play games that don't count?

C) All of the above.

JohnTucker0814
03-02-2009, 04:00 PM
What is your point? Is it bad because better pitchers than LaTroy Hawkins couldn't or wouldn't go? Or is it bad because players are absent from their teams to play games that don't count?

Are you the same person that cries that Spring Training games don't count??? Cause there are a ton of people on here saying that on a daily basis!

What is so wrong with the WBC? Are you only against it because you're worried about injuries? I haven't heard a real good reason why people don't like it. Injures? they can happen during spring training... you're away from your team... not a good excuse because most of the guys in the WBC are generally veterans that don't have to be around their team, and if they do need to be around there to get some work in with a new player, they generally stay behind...

so again, what's the good reason people don't like the WBC?

munchman33
03-02-2009, 04:06 PM
Are you the same person that cries that Spring Training games don't count??? Cause there are a ton of people on here saying that on a daily basis!

What is so wrong with the WBC? Are you only against it because you're worried about injuries? I haven't heard a real good reason why people don't like it. Injures? they can happen during spring training... you're away from your team... not a good excuse because most of the guys in the WBC are generally veterans that don't have to be around their team, and if they do need to be around there to get some work in with a new player, they generally stay behind...

so again, what's the good reason people don't like the WBC?

Selig likes it.

You know, there's a lot of reasons to dislike the WBC. But the reasons behind the tournament are paramount. They're so much more important to baseball than the needs of any individual team. The whining and crying I'm very sad to say is mostly coming from the fans of my team, and it is incredibly short-sighted and selfish.

kittle42
03-02-2009, 04:15 PM
You know, there's a lot of reasons to dislike the WBC. But the reasons behind the tournament are paramount. They're so much more important to baseball than the needs of any individual team. The whining and crying I'm very sad to say is mostly coming from the fans of my team, and it is incredibly short-sighted and selfish.

Too bad it's ending up being treated like the Pro Bowl is by football players, then.

Lip Man 1
03-02-2009, 04:20 PM
"But the reasons behind the tournament are paramount." - Munchman.

Yes the sport needs to grow. It's not enough that all of North America and some of the South American countries play it...along with Japan, China, Korea and Australia. MLB must, simply must get those Iranians, and Sudanese and Indonesians involved. The future life blood of the sport depends on it!!!

LOL

Please.....

Lip

munchman33
03-02-2009, 04:36 PM
"But the reasons behind the tournament are paramount." - Munchman.

Yes the sport needs to grow. It's not enough that all of North America and some of the South American countries play it...along with Japan, China, Korea and Australia. MLB must, simply must get those Iranians, and Sudanese and Indonesians involved. The future life blood of the sport depends on it!!!

LOL

Please.....

Lip

Short-sighted indeed.

1. Why not expand the game to those countries?
2. Why not help baseball grow in countries it's played in?
3. Why not create world-wide excitement for the stars of major league baseball?

Because of the remote chance of an injury that would have occurred in spring training anyway? *****.

This has more to do with your personal vendetta against Selig than it does with a baseball tournament.

JohnTucker0814
03-02-2009, 04:50 PM
Short-sighted indeed.

1. Why not expand the game to those countries?
2. Why not help baseball grow in countries it's played in?
3. Why not create world-wide excitement for the stars of major league baseball?

Because of the remote chance of an injury that would have occurred in spring training anyway? *****.

This has more to do with your personal vendetta against Selig than it does with a baseball tournament.

I like your thinking Munch! =) Lip... just becuase they "play" baseball in Australia, Italy, etc... doesn't mean that it's popular. We play Soccer, is it popular here or could soccer use some PR and marketing in the United States? Very short sighted, and honestly if there is a player in Iran that would make the major league roster or possibly be a star, shouldn't they be afforded that opportunity. After all I'd prefer that I'm watching the best players in the world all summer long!

Plus, how great is it to see the fans of Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Canada, etc... and see how they react to baseball, it's awesome!

areilly
03-02-2009, 05:00 PM
This has more to do with your personal vendetta against Selig than it does with a baseball tournament.


Haven't you heard? MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL IS NOT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S ENJOYMENT. It's about making sure Sox pitchers aren't maimed and ruined by the WBC, even though no Sox pitcher has ever been maimed or ruined by the WBC. It's about babying pro athletes. It's about caring how rich men we've never met spend their time and money. DON'T YOU DARE ENJOY BASEBALL UNTIL WE AVENGE LUIS AYALA!!!!!

WhiteSox5187
03-02-2009, 05:04 PM
To the people who don't understand why it is at all important to expand the game, look at how much extra revenue the NBA is raking in in markets like Europe and China. More money for the MLB means more money for the Sox which should mean a better team on the field, plus you can find good talent in previously untapped markets. Up until 2001 people were probably wondering what the point in importing talent from a place like Japan was. There's major league talent in some of these countries that just needs to be reached and the WBC is a good way of doing that.

However having in the middle of Spring Training is not a good idea.

spawn
03-02-2009, 05:25 PM
However having in the middle of Spring Training is not a good idea.
This is my biggest issue with it. I don't mind it, but I hate it's being played during ST.

BleacherBandit
03-02-2009, 05:54 PM
This is my biggest issue with it. I don't mind it, but I hate it's being played during ST.

When would it be played then if not in ST?

spawn
03-02-2009, 06:01 PM
When would it be played then if not in ST?
After the MLB season.

BleacherBandit
03-02-2009, 06:10 PM
After the MLB season.

I don't think any MLB players would want to play in the WBC after the season, even if they did feel very strongly for their country. Think about the Pro-Bowl and the effort that's put into it by the players in the NFL.

spawn
03-02-2009, 06:17 PM
I don't think any MLB players would want to play in the WBC after the season, even if they did feel very strongly for their country. Think about the Pro-Bowl and the effort that's put into it by the players in the NFL.
From '86-'06, the MLB sent a team of All-Stars to play a series against Japanese players that was played after the season. Some pretty high profile players have played in it. So what's the difference?

munchman33
03-02-2009, 06:36 PM
After the MLB season.

That's actually the best idea I've heard yet. Though many in baseball would argue whether promoting after your season is as effective as before. Not to mention the extra work players would put in after the season. The current WBC isn't very much extra work over a normal season, if it even is at all.

PKalltheway
03-02-2009, 06:37 PM
Are you the same person that cries that Spring Training games don't count??? Cause there are a ton of people on here saying that on a daily basis!

What is so wrong with the WBC? Are you only against it because you're worried about injuries? I haven't heard a real good reason why people don't like it. Injures? they can happen during spring training... you're away from your team... not a good excuse because most of the guys in the WBC are generally veterans that don't have to be around their team, and if they do need to be around there to get some work in with a new player, they generally stay behind...

so again, what's the good reason people don't like the WBC?
Man, it's no use trying to argue with people who don't like it, because they aren't going to change their minds about it. I, for one, enjoy watching it as well.

Let them complain, and let them tune out. It's their loss.

munchman33
03-02-2009, 06:40 PM
Let them complain, and let them tune out. It's their loss.

That's so true. The league and the players union are behind this thing, and ticket sales show that there's significant interest. It isn't going away. It's really just a matter of time before this is every year.

TDog
03-02-2009, 06:50 PM
Are you the same person that cries that Spring Training games don't count??? Cause there are a ton of people on here saying that on a daily basis! ...

so again, what's the good reason people don't like the WBC?

I have no problem with the WBC. And I so firmly believe that spring-training games are meaningless that since moving from Arizona where I attended spring-training games (which often degenerated into something akin to pickup games anyway), I have ignored them.

PKalltheway
03-02-2009, 06:54 PM
That's so true. The league and the players union are behind this thing, and ticket sales show that there's significant interest. It isn't going away. It's really just a matter of time before this is every year.
Even though ticket sales are good, I can't see this occurring every year. Imagine the uproar by the detractors if that were to happen!:o:

Plus, the novelty would wear off quickly if it happened every year. Every 4 years is just right.

cub killer
03-02-2009, 08:21 PM
No one would complain about the tournament if the top stars were playing. That's what it's all about. Selig should ask all the top stars what it would take to get them to participate, then work with that.

Lip Man 1
03-02-2009, 08:59 PM
Munch:

To answer your question about why not grow the sport in areas where it's not popular, I say look at history.

In the 70's I was told by soccer fanatics, "soccer is the sport of the 70's in the U.S.!" (and I actually went to see the Chicago Sting at Soldiers Field with guys like Karl Heintz Granitza)

In the 80's I was told by soccer fanatics, "soccer is the sport of the 80's in the U.S.!"

etc, to the 90's and this decade.

Some parts of the globe just don't "get it" regarding certain sports.....that's the way it is. To attempt to convince them to change their ways and abandon their sports cultural history is insane.

Baseball has the audience they are going to reach right now in the here and now. To spend more time and energy to get into areas where folks don't know about it is wasteful in my opinion.

And as Nellie and others have pointed out, the players obviously don't give a damn and neither do most G.M.'s. (and ditto for fans) but keep on watching guys like Heath Bell and John Grabow if that trips your trigger!

ENJOY!!!!!

P.S. This has absolutely nothing to do with Proud To Be Your Bud. Zero, nada, nyet. This is just a stupid idea period doesn't matter who propsed it or pushed it through.

Lip

Lip Man 1
03-02-2009, 09:04 PM
"Why not create world-wide excitement for the stars of major league baseball?"-- Munchman

I don't know, maybe because the "stars" don't give a damn?

Hey it's Heath Bell!, wow it's John Grabow!!!! Be still my beating heart.

LOL

:rolleyes:

Lip

Daver
03-02-2009, 09:07 PM
I don't think any MLB players would want to play in the WBC after the season, even if they did feel very strongly for their country. Think about the Pro-Bowl and the effort that's put into it by the players in the NFL.

You're comparing cherries to watermelons, the NFL Probowl isn't even football. From a business standpoint players going into free agency would welcome a chance to perform with scouts from every team in attendance, especially when they are facing competetion that in many cases is close in caliber to MLB. They would also have months to treat any minor injuries, and they are insured against major injuries by Team USA.

oeo
03-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Can we please admit this thing is bad now? It includes LaTroy Hawkins.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3945363

The WBC will only go as far as the fans here allow it to. It's obviously going to "bad" as long as people refuse to support it. With little support, players will not feel pressured to play, and therefore won't do it. Show some pride, and allow it to grow. All the bitching about injury concerns or whatever is just that.

It doesn't surprise me that the older fans would be against the WBC. Of course, change is bad, anything new: terrible. They'll still argue that the DH sucks, and the Wild Card is stupid. If we could just go back to the old days...:lol:

Frankfan4life
03-02-2009, 09:29 PM
I don't have anything profound to say except that I like the idea of a WBC because I like watching baseball. Baseball is a great game. Once the game of baseball is understood, there's a good chance it will catch on world-wide.

Lip Man 1
03-02-2009, 10:34 PM
OEO:

I don't know if you are being facetious or can be that insulting. Because someone is "old" doesn't mean they don't like change but at least in my case, I want stability more.

Personally I like the wild card because in a league with the Yankees and Red Sox taking up two spots almost every damn year, it gives the White Sox a little better chance of getting to the post season.

Regarding the DH, I give a damn if they keep it or not, I just want BOTH leagues to play by the same rules.

I hate the WBC because IT IS NOT THE BEST PLAYERS FROM EACH COUNTRY (far from it), is a made for TV event that is totally, completely, unequivocally meaningless, and it causes participants to have a shorter off season to recover from the previous year.

To me those aren't pie in the sky reasons, they are meaningful and valid.

Lip

Lip Man 1
03-02-2009, 10:39 PM
Frankfan:

Baseball has been around since the 1860's. Twice the White Sox and Giants took round the world tours trying to promote the game in the early part of the last century. Some parts of the world just "don't get it."

That's very easy to understand don't ya think?

November 13, 1913 - The Sox and New York Giants begin their ‘round the world tour’ promoting baseball across the globe. The two teams would eventually sail home from England on the Lusitania!


March 6, 1914 - The White Sox return home from their around the world, series of exhibition games against the New York Giants. The Sox go 24 - 20 but the added 44 games takes their toll when the regular season began in late April.



Lip

Nellie_Fox
03-03-2009, 12:26 AM
Personally I like the wild card because in a league with the Yankees and Red Sox taking up two spots almost every damn year, it gives the White Sox a little better chance of getting to the post season.Lip, I hate to point this out, but if the Yankees and Red Sox are in, that means the wild card is taken, and the White Sox have to win the division to get in. By your logic, the wild card helps the Yankees and Red Sox, not the White Sox.

ComiskeyBrewer
03-03-2009, 02:12 AM
Short-sighted indeed.

1. Why not expand the game to those countries?
2. Why not help baseball grow in countries it's played in?
3. Why not create world-wide excitement for the stars of major league baseball?

Because of the remote chance of an injury that would have occurred in spring training anyway? *****.

This has more to do with your personal vendetta against Selig than it does with a baseball tournament.


1. Because Selig likes it.

2. Because selig thinks it's a good idea.

3. Because it was selig's idea.

Seriously, i'm not saying it's the only reason why people hate the WBC, however i have noticed that a majority of the people who hate the WBC, also hate Selig. While the man has done some bad things, this isn't one of em.


Frankfan:

Baseball has been around since the 1860's. Twice the White Sox and Giants took round the world tours trying to promote the game in the early part of the last century. Some parts of the world just "don't get it."

That's very easy to understand don't ya think?

November 13, 1913 - The Sox and New York Giants begin their ‘round the world tour’ promoting baseball across the globe. The two teams would eventually sail home from England on the Lusitania!


March 6, 1914 - The White Sox return home from their around the world, series of exhibition games against the New York Giants. The Sox go 24 - 20 but the added 44 games takes their toll when the regular season began in late April.



Lip

So because two teams took a tour almost 100 years ago, that means baseball shouldn't try to expand into other markets? Baseball wasn't even played in Japan professionally back then, and didn't really take off till the 1950s. Heck, Korea didn't have a pro league until the 1980s, and look how popular it is there. Just because it isn't a huge success in countries such as South Africa, and Italy yet, doesn't mean this won't help it grow, and maybe, 10 or 15 years from now, we won't see the Italian league in the same light as the japanese leagues.

areilly
03-03-2009, 09:55 AM
I hate the WBC because IT IS NOT THE BEST PLAYERS FROM EACH COUNTRY (far from it), is a made for TV event that is totally, completely, unequivocally meaningless, and it causes participants to have a shorter off season to recover from the previous year.

You're absolutely right: it's not the best players from each country because the best players from each country are allowed to opt out which, if I recall correctly, is exactly what you've been calling for all along. You should be ecstatic.

And again Lip, we both know that in the end it's all meaningless, from the first day of Spring Training to the final out of the World Series. Exciting, fun and interesting, absolutely. But if you want to believe this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET200809240.shtml), this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK200809210.shtml) and this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SDN/SDN200809270.shtml) somehow carry any weight just because a global baseball ambassadorship 100 years ago, well, you go right on thinking that.

EndemicSox
03-03-2009, 10:44 AM
I love the event, especially now considering this is about it in terms of deciding which country is the "best" at baseball. The passion I saw in the '06 finals rivals any
World Series game I've witnessed. Maybe some are just nervous about the USA not being considering the best at something it "invented", I really don't get the hate. As long as Olympic baseball is a thing of the past, this event will carry more weight worldwide than most would imagine.

Lip Man 1
03-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Reilly:

I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make with your second paragraph (diatribe) but like I told Munchman if you get "excited" watching the likes of unknown, mediocrities like Heath Bell and John Grabow in a "series" then go for it.

More power to you.

I have zero issues with you wasting your time on that crap, it's your time, your life.

But please don't try to extoll the virtues of this farce to me or others who can understand when someone is trying to sell them a bill of goods.

Lip

Lip Man 1
03-03-2009, 11:08 AM
Comiskey:

Again let me explain my point. To me it's useless to try to promote the game to areas of the world that have no concept of it AND MORE IMPORTANTLY don't want it in the first place.

It's the exact same situation with soccer in this country. It will at best be a niche sport in the U.S. no matter how much the soccer aficionados try to ram it down the throats of the general public.

It's not gonna' happen.

It the same thing as trying to promote baseball in ares like, oh I don't know...Africa, the Balkans, Antarctica (sorry couldn't help the last one...)

There is no cultural connection to the sport, no history. If this farce is being played to promote the game to areas that don't have it, it is a foolish endevour.

And you don't need to promote it to the areas that already have it and embrace it do you?

What the Sox and Giants did 100 years ago shows that those areas didn't have or embrace the game then and they don't now. The time period is irrelevant it's the fact that those people don't have nor want the game in the first place.

I hope this clears up my position to you.

Lip

seventyseven
03-03-2009, 11:13 AM
This might be short-sighted of me, but baseball is an American game. I could not care less if people in other countries like it or not.

kittle42
03-03-2009, 11:29 AM
I have two reasons why I am not interested in the WBC.

First, a personal reason - I simply don't care much like I don't care about the Olympics. I just don't get fired up for nationalism in sporting events. Just a personal preference - I can understand why others do.

Second, many of the players themselves don't seem to care, hence the declining invitations and backing out. Who really gives a crap about watching these guys if they are not truly representing the best of their respective countries?

WhiteSox5187
03-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Comiskey:

Again let me explain my point. To me it's useless to try to promote the game to areas of the world that have no concept of it AND MORE IMPORTANTLY don't want it in the first place.

It's the exact same situation with soccer in this country. It will at best be a niche sport in the U.S. no matter how much the soccer aficionados try to ram it down the throats of the general public.

It's not gonna' happen.

It the same thing as trying to promote baseball in ares like, oh I don't know...Africa, the Balkans, Antarctica (sorry couldn't help the last one...)

There is no cultural connection to the sport, no history. If this farce is being played to promote the game to areas that don't have it, it is a foolish endevour.

And you don't need to promote it to the areas that already have it and embrace it do you?

What the Sox and Giants did 100 years ago shows that those areas didn't have or embrace the game then and they don't now. The time period is irrelevant it's the fact that those people don't have nor want the game in the first place.

I hope this clears up my position to you.

Lip
One could have made this argument about baseball in Japan in the 1930s or in Korea in the 1950s. Baseball is now arguably the biggest sports in those respective countries. Baseball could grow in Africa (countries like Cameroon I believe are opening training facilities) and it could grow in Europe (it has a following in eastern Europe and at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union was one of Russia's fastest growing sports), but it won't happen over night. It needs to be sustained growth and I think the WBC is a good way of doing that, there are still a lot of kinks that need to be worked out but in twenty years or so this could be a hell of an event. People didn't like the World Series when that first happened and people took awhile to warm up to the idea of the World Cup as well. If given time and done properly, the WBC could be very big and very entertaining to watch.

I think there are two things that threaten the WBC, one is the chance that it could be killed in its infancy by a combo of owners who are reluctant to see their investments go down the tubes, apathetic fans and players who only play if there is money involved in it for them. The other thing that threatens the WBC is the fact that Bud Selig is an idiot and doesn't see the flaws that this tournament has and won't bother to work to try and fix them.

areilly
03-03-2009, 12:10 PM
I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make with your second paragraph (diatribe) but like I told Munchman if you get "excited" watching the likes of unknown, mediocrities like Heath Bell and John Grabow in a "series" then go for it.

The likes of Bell and Grabow are in because the likes of John Danks and Joe Nathan exercised their option to not play, and you have stated repeatedly that you don't want to see good/expensive players hurt in this farce/glorified nonsense/made-for-TV garbage.

First you say elite players would be wasting their time playing in the WBC, but then you fault the tournament for not having elite players. Which one is it?

munchman33
03-03-2009, 01:27 PM
I'm not going to post much more on this, and I really think OEO nailed it on the head.

But what's the problem with Heath Bell!?! On our roster he'd immediately be our setup guy and is going to be the Padres closer this year. His stuff is overpowering. There are other names you could use. Heath Bell is certainly a quality guy to have on any squad. Quit picking on him!

TDog
03-03-2009, 01:34 PM
The likes of Bell and Grabow are in because the likes of John Danks and Joe Nathan exercised their option to not play, and you have stated repeatedly that you don't want to see good/expensive players hurt in this farce/glorified nonsense/made-for-TV garbage.

First you say elite players would be wasting their time playing in the WBC, but then you fault the tournament for not having elite players. Which one is it?

Sort of like the proverbial kid who kills his parents and begs the judge to show him mercy because he is an orphan.

I don't believe baseball should be an Olympic sport. I don't believe basketball, soccer or hockey should be either. I do believe, however, in dedicated world competitions such as the World Cup and WBC.

I really don't understand why people hate it so much. It isn't like major league baseball is shutting down a couple of weeks of the season for the tournament.

oeo
03-03-2009, 01:41 PM
OEO:

I don't know if you are being facetious or can be that insulting. Because someone is "old" doesn't mean they don't like change but at least in my case, I want stability more.

I was referring to baseball, not any general opinion. I just hate hearing about the DH, the Wild Card, 4-man rotations, complete games, etc., etc. The game is different now. Why not accept something new right out of the gates? The Wild Card was widely disliked at first, and still is by some, but it's done great things for the game.

I hate the WBC because IT IS NOT THE BEST PLAYERS FROM EACH COUNTRY (far from it), is a made for TV event that is totally, completely, unequivocally meaningless, and it causes participants to have a shorter off season to recover from the previous year.Again, do the best players have a reason to play? The event doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot of support. Without fan support, it's obviously going to fail because the players are not going to want to play for some meaningless event. And I'll agree, it is completely meaningless right now. I think with some support, it can grow. When we have people like you who refuse to support it because of Selig, then you're going to get your wish, and I think this will be the last we see of it.

The WBC will likely flop, IMO, and not because it was a bad idea (far from it), but because America doesn't want to watch it.

EndemicSox
03-03-2009, 03:04 PM
I was referring to baseball, not any general opinion. I just hate hearing about the DH, the Wild Card, 4-man rotations, complete games, etc., etc. The game is different now. Why not accept something new right out of the gates? The Wild Card was widely disliked at first, and still is by some, but it's done great things for the game.

Again, do the best players have a reason to play? The event doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot of support. Without fan support, it's obviously going to fail because the players are not going to want to play for some meaningless event. And I'll agree, it is completely meaningless right now. I think with some support, it can grow. When we have people like you who refuse to support it because of Selig, then you're going to get your wish, and I think this will be the last we see of it.

The WBC will likely flop, IMO, and not because it was a bad idea (far from it), but because America doesn't want to watch it.

While the USA not watching these first few events in huge numbers is a problem, the USA doesn't seem to have much passion about the game nowadays anyway. If the USA makes the final four, I expect the television ratings to be on the same level as the average World Series game, at least. As long as the event is a hit in Japan/Korea/most of the South American/Caribbean countries participating, which I believe it is/will be, I'm fairly confident this event will thrive if it remains the biggest national competition. I'm not naive enough to think profit isn't one of the main goals of the organizers, but I do believe they realize this event has the potential to be more than a simple plaything of the rich and famous like today's MLB.

The World Cup of Soccer is my favorite sporting event, by far(coming from a man who despises the game of soccer, for the most part), due to its rarity and the passionate play of the participants..if the WBC can muster up a tenth of what the World Cup of Soccer is, it will an absolute dream for any fan of the game. I simply do not understand how a fan of the game of baseball doesn't want this event to be the massive hit it should be in time. Of course, the billionaires that "own" the MLB professionals that participate may have a different opinion, but I could care less about them. They probably want the event to fail, and may do everything in their power to achiece that goal, but so be it, they are part of the problem in today's game. It's not going to be baseball's version of the World Cup overnight, or in the next twenty years, but a man can hope. I love the White Sox, and hope they win World Series after World Series, but the USA national team is bigger deal, imo...

Lip Man 1
03-03-2009, 04:33 PM
Reilly:

If this was worth a damn the top players would be in it. This isn't a question of either, or, the fact is they are bailing in droves.

If all the good players actually played in this, my opinion of it could change, my arguments against it certainly would have less meaning.

So it's not 'you say it's bad because the top guys are not in it then get on me for following it with the likes of the stiffs playing'

I'm saying that since the top guys have blown this farce off already if you want to follow the stiffs playing in it, again more power to you, your time, your life.

But don't try to sell anyone on the "merits" of this craptacular.

Lip

Daver
03-03-2009, 05:16 PM
Reilly:

If this was worth a damn the top players would be in it. This isn't a question of either, or, the fact is they are bailing in droves.

If all the good players actually played in this, my opinion of it could change, my arguments against it certainly would have less meaning.

So it's not 'you say it's bad because the top guys are not in it then get on me for following it with the likes of the stiffs playing'

I'm saying that since the top guys have blown this farce off already if you want to follow the stiffs playing in it, again more power to you, your time, your life.

But don't try to sell anyone on the "merits" of this craptacular.

Lip

You would have a lot of top tier players in it if it were scheduled for immediately after the World Series, players going into free agency would welcome the chance to showcase themselves to scouts of every team against opponents that are not MLB caliber, it only makes them look that much better.

areilly
03-03-2009, 05:27 PM
So it's not 'you say it's bad because the top guys are not in it then get on me for following it with the likes of the stiffs playing'


I would believe you if this wasn't preceded by:


If this was worth a damn the top players would be in it. This isn't a question of either, or, the fact is they are bailing in droves.


and then followed by:


I'm saying that since the top guys have blown this farce off already if you want to follow the stiffs playing in it, again more power to you, your time, your life.


You use the voluntary absence and withdrawal of top players to conclude it isn't worth a damn, then you literally get on me for following a farce played out by bunch of stiffs while insisting you're not getting on me for following a farce played out by a bunch of stiffs.



Am I missing something here?

Taliesinrk
03-03-2009, 05:56 PM
"But the reasons behind the tournament are paramount." - Munchman.

Yes the sport needs to grow. It's not enough that all of North America and some of the South American countries play it...along with Japan, China, Korea and Australia. MLB must, simply must get those Iranians, and Sudanese and Indonesians involved. The future life blood of the sport depends on it!!!

LOL

Please.....

Lip

You may mock it now, but in 50 years, MLB could be like the NHL today. The rate at which I've seen the popularity of football grow comparatively to that of baseball is astounding. We may all think that baseball is the best game in the world, but without global exposure and continual displays of the sport, others may lose interest in it.

The WBC is far from perfect, but is a solid concept, and IMO, should be embraced by baseball fans.

Lip Man 1
03-04-2009, 10:18 AM
Reilly:

Watch whatever you want, whenever you want as much as you want. Just don't try selling this garbage to others who can see when they are being sold snake-oil.

That seems pretty clear to me.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
03-04-2009, 10:29 AM
Reilly:

Watch whatever you want, whenever you want as much as you want. Just don't try selling this garbage to others who can see when they are being sold snake-oil.

That seems pretty clear to me.

Lip
Lip:

Don't watch whatever you want, whenever you want as little as you want. Just don't try convincing others that your opinions are somehow superior to theirs when you can't seem to form a cogent argument against the damn thing (and trust me, there's plenty).

That seems pretty clear to me.