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FGarcia34
02-22-2009, 11:39 AM
It's opening day, projections of starters are over and you are the manager. What is your lineup for opening day?

Here's mine...

2B - Brent Lillibridge
C - AJ Pierzynski
LF - Carlos Quentin
RF - Jermaine Dye
DH - Jim Thome
1B - Paul Konerko
SS - Alexei Ramirez
3B - Josh Fields
CF - Brian Anderson

SP - Mark Buehrle

sox1970
02-22-2009, 11:59 AM
It's opening day, projections of starters are over and you are the manager. What is your lineup for opening day?

Here's mine...

2B - Brent Lillibridge
C - AJ Pierzynski
LF - Carlos Quentin
RF - Jermaine Dye
DH - Jim Thome
1B - Paul Konerko
SS - Alexei Ramirez
3B - Josh Fields
CF - Brian Anderson

SP - Mark Buehrle

That would be my lineup versus lefties. Against righties, I think Owens leads off, and Getz bats 9th.

Madscout
02-22-2009, 12:18 PM
2B - Lillibridge/Getz (whoever wins the spring training battle)
C - Pierzynski
LF - Quentin
RF - Dye
SS - Ramirez
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
3B - Fields
CF - Anderson

SP - Mark Buehrle

LoveYourSuit
02-22-2009, 12:30 PM
1. Getz 2B
2. Ramirez SS
3. CQ LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Konerko 1B
7. AJ C
8. Fields 3B
9. Anderson CF

Craig Grebeck
02-22-2009, 12:32 PM
1. Getz 2B
2. Ramirez SS
3. CQ LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Konerko 1B
7. AJ C
8. Fields 3B
9. Anderson CF
Came in here to post the same thing.

Sargeant79
02-22-2009, 12:33 PM
That would be my lineup versus lefties. Against righties, I think Owens leads off, and Getz bats 9th.

Exactly. I think for all the to do about the CF and 2B battles, I really think that Owens, Anderson, Getz, and Lillibridge will all see significant playing time, especially with the way Ozzie tends to manage his lineup from day to day.

LoveYourSuit
02-22-2009, 12:37 PM
Came in here to post the same thing.


Ramirez is a solid contact hitter and would add solid protection for a "work in progress" lead off hitter. CQ being sandwiched by perhaps our 2 other best offensive players is a very good thing.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-22-2009, 12:42 PM
I'll give you my lineup vs. RHP and vs. LHP...

vs. RHP
1) L Owens - CF
2) R Ramirez - SS
3) R Quentin - LF
4) L Thome - DH
5) R Dye - RF
6) R Konerko - 1B
7) L Pierzynski - C
8) R Fields - 3B
9) L Getz - 2B

vs. LHP
1) R Lillibridge - 2B
2) R Anderson - CF
3) R Quentin - LF
4) R Dye - RF
5) R Konerko - 1B
6) L Thome - DH
7) R Ramirez - SS
8) R Fields - 3B
9) L Pierzynski - C

Both lineups have glitches but our roster has lots of glitches also. So, I did my best! :whiner:

MCHSoxFan
02-22-2009, 12:50 PM
I 100% agree with the first 2 posts. I like Owens, as I have stated the past 2 seasons, but if I can, I would prefer our lead-off hitter from 2B because BA has great defense and out line-up has more power than 2006 IMO (TCQ/A-Ram and the 2006 people like Dye/PK/JT) so I'll take my chance with his bat.

oeo
02-22-2009, 01:17 PM
came in here to post the same thing.

+1.

tm1119
02-22-2009, 02:37 PM
SS- Lilibridge
CF- Ramirez
LF- Quentin
DH- Thome
RF- Dye
1B- Konerko
C- A.J.
3B- Fields
2B- Getz

Will never happen, but you asked if I was the manager.

Daver
02-22-2009, 02:44 PM
SS- Lilibridge
CF- Ramirez
LF- Quentin
DH- Thome
RF- Dye
1B- Konerko
C- A.J.
3B- Fields
2B- Getz

Will never happen, but you asked if I was the manager.

You better have 5 SO pitchers in your rotation, because you are fielding the worst defensive team in baseball.

Madscout
02-22-2009, 03:02 PM
You better have 5 SO pitchers in your rotation, because you are fielding the worst defensive team in baseball.
I was thinking the same thing.

LITTLE NELL
02-22-2009, 03:10 PM
1. Getz 2B
2. Ramirez SS
3. CQ LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Konerko 1B
7. AJ C
8. Fields 3B
9. Anderson CF
Could'nt said it better myself.

LoveYourSuit
02-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Could'nt said it better myself.

let's hope Ozzie does not play musical CFs with us.

Start Anderson, hit him 9, and leave him there. We need his glove with this OF and suspect back end of the rotation.

LITTLE NELL
02-22-2009, 03:24 PM
let's hope Ozzie does not play musical CFs with us.

Start Anderson, hit him 9, and leave him there. We need his glove with this OF and suspect back end of the rotation.
Great minds think alike.

tm1119
02-22-2009, 03:28 PM
You better have 5 SO pitchers in your rotation, because you are fielding the worst defensive team in baseball.

How exactly? Everything I read says that Ramirez played CF in Cuba and is more than capable of doing so in the MLB. And Lilibridge is a a natural SS, and his glove is supposed to be his strong suit.

Madscout
02-22-2009, 03:32 PM
How exactly? Everything I read says that Ramirez played CF in Cuba and is more than capable of doing so in the MLB. And Lilibridge is a a natural SS, and his glove is supposed to be his strong suit.
You didn't see him play CF in Cleveland. It wasn't good, not at all.

tm1119
02-22-2009, 03:52 PM
You didn't see him play CF in Cleveland. It wasn't good, not at all.

Youre going to write him off after 1 game? Let him practice and play CF in ST and I see no reason why he couldnt play CF. This would also free up a spot for Beckham at SS when hes ready, and whoever plays better between Getz and Lillibridge is our starting 2B.

Daver
02-22-2009, 03:54 PM
Youre going to write him off after 1 game? Let him practice and play CF in ST and I see no reason why he couldnt play CF. This would also free up a spot for Beckham at SS when hes ready, and whoever plays better between Getz and Lillibridge is our starting 2B.

Let's put Fields in LF too. It doesn't matter that he sucks at it, let him practice in ST. Your logic cracks me up.

Madscout
02-22-2009, 03:59 PM
Youre going to write him off after 1 game? Let him practice and play CF in ST and I see no reason why he couldnt play CF. This would also free up a spot for Beckham at SS when hes ready, and whoever plays better between Getz and Lillibridge is our starting 2B.
I believe that he played 2 games in Cleveland at CF. I was at one of them. It wasn't something to inspire confidence. Not one bit.

I know it is one game, but their has to be some show of talent, and the show of talent at the MLB level is different than that of Cuba. Alexi didn't show any talent at CF, and besides, he looks good in the infield. Why take a fish out of water?

tm1119
02-22-2009, 03:59 PM
Let's put Fields in LF too. It doesn't matter that he sucks at it, let him practice in ST. Your logic cracks me up.

Those 2 cases are completely separate. Fields never played OF in his career and is no where near the athlete Ramirez is. But im not gonna argue over this cause its never actually gonna happen anyway. Its just my opinion on what would be best for the team.

oeo
02-22-2009, 04:00 PM
Let's put Fields in LF too. It doesn't matter that he sucks at it, let him practice in ST. Your logic cracks me up.

Your logic isn't much better. Is there an age you reach where you can't learn anymore? :scratch: Both of those guys have the athletic ability to be good enough in the outfield with practice.

Do people remember how bad Alexei was defensively at this time, period (even in the infield)? The guy was improving before our eyes. That said, I don't really want to experiment with Alexei in CF unless Lillibridge and Getz break out. Saying you want Lillibridge and Getz in the starting lineup today is very questionable.

Also, Alexei is supposed to a be a pretty good SS, so I'd like to see if that's true. I'd try Lillibridge in CF first.

jabrch
02-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Youre going to write him off after 1 game? Let him practice and play CF in ST and I see no reason why he couldnt play CF. This would also free up a spot for Beckham at SS when hes ready, and whoever plays better between Getz and Lillibridge is our starting 2B.


Word is Beckham makes more sense at a different position...

I want to see how good a SS Alexei is.

whitesox901
02-22-2009, 04:14 PM
CF - Owens
C - Pierzynksi
LF - Quentin
RF - Dye
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
SS - Ramirez
3B - Fields
2B - Getz

voodoochile
02-22-2009, 04:19 PM
Word is Beckham makes more sense at a different position...

I want to see how good a SS Alexei is.

That's the idea. If TCM isn't that good at SS, they can always move him back to 2B or eve give him that crack at CF, but you have to give your brightest young IF prospect in a while a chance to play the position he is supposed to be best at. This gives them a chance to see where Beckham fits in. I mean they'd have a full season to move him to 2B or even 3B (should Getz/Lillebridge excel while Fields/Viciedo both fall flat). Then they could start focusing on where they want Viciedo to play (probably corner OF would be my guess).

But, this is Alexei's shot at SS if he's half the talent he appears to be and this is indeed his natural position, then the Sox just locked up SS for the next decade+ (oh man that would truly suck...)

Domeshot17
02-22-2009, 04:23 PM
My Ideal

2b Getz
C AJ
Lf TCQ
DH Thome
RF Dye
1b PK
ss TCM
3b Fields
CF Anderson

Ozzies IMO

CF Owens
2b Getz
SS TCM
RF TCQ
DH Thome
RF Dye
1b PK
3b Fields
C AJ

Kennys IMO
CF Lillibridge
2b Getz
RF TCQ
DH Thome
RF Dye
SS TCM
1b PK
C AJ
3b Fields

tm1119
02-22-2009, 04:23 PM
That's the idea. If TCM isn't that good at SS, they can always move him back to 2B or eve give him that crack at CF, but you have to give your brightest young IF prospect in a while a chance to play the position he is supposed to be best at. This gives them a chance to see where Beckham fits in. I mean they'd have a full season to move him to 2B or even 3B (should Getz/Lillebridge excel while Fields/Viciedo both fall flat). Then they could start focusing on where they want Viciedo to play (probably corner OF would be my guess).

But, this is Alexei's shot at SS if he's half the talent he appears to be and this is indeed his natural position, then the Sox just locked up SS for the next decade+ (oh man that would truly suck...)

My only argument against this is what if we could fill SS and CF for the next decade with Ramirez and Beckham? If Ramirez can play CF and Beckham can play SS then that seems to be the dream scenario for any franchise.

JohnTucker0814
02-22-2009, 04:30 PM
Here's my line-up:

1. Lillibridge 2B
2. Ramirez SS
3. Quentin LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Konerko 1B
7. Pierzynski C
8. Fields 3B
9. Anderson CF

Alternate with owens/getz:

1. Owens CF
2. Ramirez SS
3. Quentin LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Konerko 1B
7. Pierzynski C
8. Fields 3B
9. Getz 2B

My thoughts would be that Anderson plays against EVERY left handed pitcher and he splits time vs. Right Handed pitchers, meaning he will get about 70% of the at bats...

I would also say that whoever performs best in spring between Lillibridge and Gets gets the majority of the AB's there, and unless they are really hot during the regular season, you platoon there anyway about 60/40.

voodoochile
02-22-2009, 05:11 PM
My only argument against this is what if we could fill SS and CF for the next decade with Ramirez and Beckham? If Ramirez can play CF and Beckham can play SS then that seems to be the dream scenario for any franchise.

You have to give Alexei at least one shot to play SS before moving him somewhere else. It's not fair to him or to the team at large not to do so. Until he proves to be merely good at SS, you don't move him somewhere else. Why not give Beckham a shot at CF or just be super happy that if TCM grabs the SS position and doesn't let it go that the middle IF defense or left side IF defense is going to absolute rock for as long as they both are on the team.

If TCM proves to be merely good as a SS then you can give him a crack at CF or move him back to 2B as the team needs dictate, but you don't do that until he gets his crack at SS. If last year at 2B is any indicator of what is to come, this kid is gonna earn a bunch of gold gloves, IMO. You don't mess with that until you have to...

oeo
02-22-2009, 05:27 PM
Ozzies IMO

CF Owens
2b Getz
SS TCM
RF TCQ
DH Thome
RF Dye
1b PK
3b Fields
C AJ

Any reason you feel Ozzie would do that? I would be shocked if Ozzie moved one of his vets from #3 to make room for Alexei. In fact, I think it's so improbable, that Alexei won't bat a single game at #3 unless there are some big injuries.

Also, Ozzie is too interested in matchups to go L, L, R, R, L, R, R, R, L.

Bucky F. Dent
02-22-2009, 05:33 PM
2B - Lillibridge/Getz (whoever wins the spring training battle)
C - Pierzynski
LF - Quentin
RF - Dye
SS - Ramirez
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
3B - Fields
CF - Anderson

SP - Mark Buehrle

That's mine.

Tragg
02-22-2009, 05:56 PM
All I ask is that someone save the team from Guillen trying to reenact the 2007 offense, which, regardless of injuries, was poorly conceived.

1. Missle
2. Getz (or AJ)
3. TCQ
4. Thome
5. Konerko
6. Dye
7. AJ (or Getz)
8. Fields
9. Anderson

Domeshot17
02-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Any reason you feel Ozzie would do that? I would be shocked if Ozzie moved one of his vets from #3 to make room for Alexei. In fact, I think it's so improbable, that Alexei won't bat a single game at #3 unless there are some big injuries.

Also, Ozzie is too interested in matchups to go L, L, R, R, L, R, R, R, L.

Just the feeling I get is having the speed on the top of the lineup. Getz is the ideal 2 hitter because hes a lot like Iguchi with great bat Control. Its just a gut feeling. It also would provide a ton of protection to both Alexei and Quentin

EnglishChiSox
02-22-2009, 06:19 PM
Just the feeling I get is having the speed on the top of the lineup. Getz is the ideal 2 hitter because hes a lot like Iguchi with great bat Control. Its just a gut feeling. It also would provide a ton of protection to both Alexei and Quentin

There's no guarantee Getz will be an everyday guy, and it's hard to say what kind of bat control he has with the limited AB's he had last season. So the "protection" for TCM and TCQ is a player with a handful of ML AB's and a leadoff hitter who has played just under a season and has a career OBP of .321.

2B - Lillibridge/Getz (whoever wins the spring training battle)
C - Pierzynski
LF - Quentin
RF - Dye
SS - Ramirez
DH - Thome
1B - Konerko
3B - Fields
CF - AndersonThis is sort of mine, i think Thome will bat ahead of Alexei, Ozzie will want to break up the righties. As we saw last season you can slot any of TCQ, JD, Thome, TCM, PK in any order depending on form or matchups, there is no real correct way of ordering them.

oeo
02-22-2009, 09:24 PM
There's no guarantee Getz will be an everyday guy, and it's hard to say what kind of bat control he has with the limited AB's he had last season. So the "protection" for TCM and TCQ is a player with a handful of ML AB's and a leadoff hitter who has played just under a season and has a career OBP of .321.

You've got it backwards. A good hitter behind you is protection, as you will see a lot more strikes because they don't want to see the guy behind you.

And 'bat control' is Chris Getz's game. That's what he is, a patient, contact hitter. I think his skill set translates well. :shrug:

MeanFish
02-22-2009, 10:09 PM
1.) Ramirez - SS
2.) Getz - 2B
3.) Quentin - LF
4.) Thome - DH
5.) Dye - RF
6.) Konerko - 1B
7.) Pierzynski - C
8.) Fields - 3B
9.) Anderson - CF

Notes about bench:
- Lillibridge is primary backup at both middle IF positions, and possibly CF depending on how he looks there in ST. If he can hit and play CF well, he quickly becomes front runner for leadoff and starts in CF.
- Betemit is backup at 3B, 1B
- Owens backs up RF and LF, with Wise as the 6th OF'er.
- Cole Armstrong makes my team as backup C and is used against teams that run well.

SoxNation05
02-22-2009, 11:03 PM
To answer the question from earlier. No i do not think Alexei should start the year in CF but I think he should play a lot in ST. We know he can play short, he did all his career in Cuba and our manager raves about him there but I think from a GM point of view KW should give this guy some looks in CF. We know Ozzie loves to get all his guys in there and we have a surpluse of middle infielders (Alexei, Getz, Lillibridge, Beckham).

If you look there is not a superfulous number of CFs that can fill our constant void in center. If your answer is Brian Anderson: How do you expect to get him in? Ozzie wouldn't even start him against lefties.

I also think getting Lillibridge some time in CF would be wise because I would waaaay rather see him out there than Jerry Owens. Was Owens ever even a prospect? What does he do besides run?

Righties:
CF Owens/Lillibridge
2B Getz/ Lillibridge
LF Quentin
DH Thome
RF Dye
1B Konerko
SS Ramirez
C Pierzynski
3B Fields

Lefties:
2B Lillibridge
CF Anderson
DH Thome
LF Quentin
RF Dye
1B Konerko
SS Ramirez
3B Fields
C Pierzynski

Throw some Alexei in CF and Getz and Lillibridge up the middle to see who really is apart of our future. I don't think there is any need for Jerry Owens. I think on April 6th Brent Lillibridge will be able to play just as well as Jerry Owens if not better. Jerry Owens is nothing but a journey man, stop gap.

BASIC POINT: I think this team will be set up much better in the future if we could somehow turn Alexei into a steady defensive CF. We would have some great competition up the middle and I think it is safe to say either Lillibridge or Getz will pan out.

tm1119
02-22-2009, 11:19 PM
To answer the question from earlier. No i do not think Alexei should start the year in CF but I think he should play a lot in ST. We know he can play short, he did all his career in Cuba and our manager raves about him there but I think from a GM point of view KW should give this guy some looks in CF. We know Ozzie loves to get all his guys in there and we have a surpluse of middle infielders (Alexei, Getz, Lillibridge, Beckham).

If you look there is not a superfulous number of CFs that can fill our constant void in center. If your answer is Brian Anderson: How do you expect to get him in? Ozzie wouldn't even start him against lefties.

I also think getting Lillibridge some time in CF would be wise because I would waaaay rather see him out there than Jerry Owens. Was Owens ever even a prospect? What does he do besides run?

Righties:
CF Owens/Lillibridge
2B Getz/ Lillibridge
LF Quentin
DH Thome
RF Dye
1B Konerko
SS Ramirez
C Pierzynski
3B Fields

Lefties:
2B Lillibridge
CF Anderson
DH Thome
LF Quentin
RF Dye
1B Konerko
SS Ramirez
3B Fields
C Pierzynski

Throw some Alexei in CF and Getz and Lillibridge up the middle to see who really is apart of our future. I don't think there is any need for Jerry Owens. I think on April 6th Brent Lillibridge will be able to play just as well as Jerry Owens if not better. Jerry Owens is nothing but a journey man, stop gap.

BASIC POINT: I think this team will be set up much better in the future if we could somehow turn Alexei into a steady defensive CF. We would have some great competition up the middle and I think it is safe to say either Lillibridge or Getz will pan out.

Thats what I was trying to get at, but no one else seems to like the idea. I understand the reasoning of leaving Alexei where he is comfortable because he is arguably our best young player, but I think you have to put the overall franchise before just Alexei. Think of having CF, SS(beckham), and most likely 2B(1 of lilibridge or getz) locked up long term for cheap. That would solve a lot of problems for our team for the unforseeable future.

SoxNation05
02-22-2009, 11:24 PM
Thats what I was trying to get at, but no one else seems to like the idea. I understand the reasoning of leaving Alexei where he is comfortable because he is arguably our best young player, but I think you have to put the overall franchise before just Alexei. Think of having CF, SS(beckham), and most likely 2B(1 of lilibridge or getz) locked up long term for cheap. That would solve a lot of problems for our team for the unforseeable future.
Most definetly. I understand TCM doesn't have experience in CF but initially, he was better regarded as a CF than a 2B. I don't think he should start the season in CF but I think he should work with the coaches durin ST and the season and then maybe start 20 games out there. We could also put him there in the blow outs. He can't be worse defensively than Owens and he has a cannon.

Organization: Alexei at SS <<< Alexei in CF. It's worth a try.

jabrch
02-22-2009, 11:26 PM
I think it is safe to say either Lillibridge or Getz will pan out.

I hope so - but neither are a lock.

JB98
02-23-2009, 01:29 AM
Owens CF
Ramirez SS
Quentin LF
Thome DH
Dye RF
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Fields 3B
Getz 2B

Buehrle P

russ99
02-23-2009, 10:17 AM
Owens CF
Lillibridge 2B
Ramirez SS
Quentin LF
Dye RF
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Fields 3B

With lots of playing time for Viciedo, Wise, Anderson and Betemit - who will make the team over the losers of the 2B battle, since he plays every position, including 1B. And it makes no sense for Getz to sit on the bench if he doesn't win the job.

Not so much for whoever our backup catcher is.

oeo
02-23-2009, 11:38 AM
Owens CF
Lillibridge 2B
Ramirez SS
Quentin LF
Dye RF
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Pierzynski C
Fields 3B

With lots of playing time for Viciedo, Wise, Anderson and Betemit - who will make the team over the losers of the 2B battle, since he plays every position, including 1B. And it makes no sense for Getz to sit on the bench if he doesn't win the job.

Not so much for whoever our backup catcher is.

I'd like to know how everyone is going to 'lots of playing time.' Are we going to field 10 position players? :scratch:

khan
02-23-2009, 11:57 AM
I understand TCM doesn't have experience in CF but initially, he was better regarded as a CF than a 2B.
I think this speaks more towards the fallibility of scouting reports, particularly those about Cuban players.

I think the EVIDENCE from last season is clearer that Ramirez seems to play well in the IF. The fact that this organization hasn't bothered to bring in a proper CF does nothing to change this reality.

russ99
02-23-2009, 03:41 PM
I'd like to know how everyone is going to 'lots of playing time.' Are we going to field 10 position players? :scratch:

No, it means Ozzie will get guys at-bats or defensive replacement playing time. It doesn't mean these guys will play full time, but potentially in a platoon situation.

Daver
02-23-2009, 03:54 PM
No, it means Ozzie will get guys at-bats or defensive replacement playing time. It doesn't mean these guys will play full time, but potentially in a platoon situation.

Just platoon every position, everybody gets to play, just like little league.

guillen4life13
02-23-2009, 04:34 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

CF Yasser Gomez
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin
RF Dye
1B Konerko
DH Thome
SS Ramirez
3B Fields
2B Getz

If Gomez doesn't join the White Sox (and there really is no reason to believe that he will), then I would predict the following:

2B Nix
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin
RF Dye
1B Konerko
DH Thome
SS Ramirez
3B Fields
CF Anderson

Bench:
1B/3B - Betemit
IF - Getz
OF - Owens
C - Chris Stewart

Rotation:
SP - Mark Buehrle
SP - John Danks
SP - Gavin Floyd
SP - Bartolo Colon
SP - Jose Contreras
LRP - Aaron Poreda
RRP - Adam Russell
RRP - Octavio Dotel
LRP - Clayton Richard
LRP - Matt Thornton
RRP - Scott Linebrink
CL - Bobby Jenks

jabrch
02-23-2009, 06:21 PM
SP - Bartolo Colon
SP - Jose Contreras


If those two are both ready to go on OD and be effective, we will be a very good team.

Craig Grebeck
02-23-2009, 07:13 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

CF Yasser Gomez
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin
RF Dye
1B Konerko
DH Thome
SS Ramirez
3B Fields
2B Getz

If Gomez doesn't join the White Sox (and there really is no reason to believe that he will), then I would predict the following:

2B Nix
C Pierzynski
LF Quentin
RF Dye
1B Konerko
DH Thome
SS Ramirez
3B Fields
CF Anderson

Bench:
1B/3B - Betemit
IF - Getz
OF - Owens
C - Chris Stewart

Rotation:
SP - Mark Buehrle
SP - John Danks
SP - Gavin Floyd
SP - Bartolo Colon
SP - Jose Contreras
LRP - Aaron Poreda
RRP - Adam Russell
RRP - Octavio Dotel
LRP - Clayton Richard
LRP - Matt Thornton
RRP - Scott Linebrink
CL - Bobby Jenks
I laughed out loud at Jayson Nix. Seriously? There's a better chance that Joe Morgan starts and leads off.

SoxNation05
02-23-2009, 07:31 PM
I laughed out loud at Jayson Nix. Seriously? There's a better chance that Joe Morgan starts and leads off.
That's very degrading to have Grebeck say you're wrong and actually be wrong.

guillen4life13
02-23-2009, 07:57 PM
I laughed out loud at Jayson Nix. Seriously? There's a better chance that Joe Morgan starts and leads off.

Grebeck, SoxNation: Enlighten me then. He has better stats than Lillibridge in the minors and is a better lead off option than Getz. I haven't seen any of these guys play extensively (and I doubt you have either). So pray tell.

Edit: Just for comparison:

Brent Lillibridge (2008) at AAA:
355 AB. .220/.294/.344/.638 with 23 SB, 4 HR.

Chris Getz (2008) at AAA:
404 AB. .302/.366/.448/.814 with 11 SB, 11 HR

Jayson Nix (2008) at AAA:
264 AB. .303/.373/.591/.964 with 11 SB, 17 HR.

So if you still think I'm stupid, at least you can see the reasoning. None of these guys have even had 100 MLB at bats, so to really make a valid judgment of how their AAA numbers would translate to MLB pitching would be a little soon.

But to me, based on these numbers, Nix is far and away the best option. In about 5/8 the AB's, he out-homers Getz and steals as many bases (one more CS), and every other offensive stat is pretty much above what Getz did in many more AB. Lillibridge looks like he was either outmatched or injured, in which case I would change my opinion a la Josh Fields. But so far, all we can say is that Lillibridge would out steal the other two options.

Craig Grebeck
02-23-2009, 08:18 PM
Grebeck, SoxNation: Enlighten me then. He has better stats than Lillibridge in the minors and is a better lead off option than Getz. I haven't seen any of these guys play extensively (and I doubt you have either). So pray tell.
Tell me why he's a better lead-off option than Getz. Pray tell. That's pretty certain language when considering Nix's minor league line.

Craig Grebeck
02-23-2009, 08:19 PM
Grebeck, SoxNation: Enlighten me then. He has better stats than Lillibridge in the minors and is a better lead off option than Getz. I haven't seen any of these guys play extensively (and I doubt you have either). So pray tell.

Edit: Just for comparison:

Brent Lillibridge (2008) at AAA:
355 AB. .220/.294/.344/.638 with 23 SB, 4 HR.

Chris Getz (2008) at AAA:
404 AB. .302/.366/.448/.814 with 11 SB, 11 HR

Jayson Nix (2008) at AAA:
264 AB. .303/.373/.591/.964 with 11 SB, 17 HR.

So if you still think I'm stupid, at least you can see the reasoning. None of these guys have even had 100 MLB at bats, so to really make a valid judgment of how their AAA numbers would translate to MLB pitching would be a little soon.

But to me, based on these numbers, Nix is far and away the best option. In about 5/8 the AB's, he out-homers Getz and steals as many bases (one more CS), and every other offensive stat is pretty much above what Getz did in many more AB. Lillibridge looks like he was either outmatched or injured, in which case I would change my opinion a la Josh Fields. But so far, all we can say is that Lillibridge would out steal the other two options.
Ever care to examine where Nix put up those numbers, or how many times he's gone through that league, or even the numbers relative to the rest of his career?

SoxNation05
02-23-2009, 09:11 PM
G4L13: Minor league stats are great. How about some MLB stats? There are reasons this guy was a free agent.

guillen4life13
02-23-2009, 09:23 PM
G4L13: Minor league stats are great. How about some MLB stats? There are reasons this guy was a free agent.

I said none of them have enough MLB experience to draw any conclusions. If you are going to draw a conclusion based on less than 90 at bats (which none of these players have), then you have other issues.

I don't care how old someone is. If he can play he should play. And it's not like Getz wasn't playing in a bandbox in AAA either.

In this discussion I asked you to explain why you think my point is so ludicrous. You haven't done so. I've explained my view. So how about you put up instead of ridiculing me without backing it up. I think I've proven time and again on these boards that I'm open to being proven wrong and will admit it when I am.

So if I'm wrong, tell me what's right, and tell me why.

Frater Perdurabo
02-23-2009, 09:24 PM
Based on who is on the roster, it would solve a lot of problems if one of Nix, Lillibridge or Getz plays so well that Ozzie simply must have him lead off. So, based on some deeppink hope, I'm going with this lineup:

2B winner of Nix/Lillibridge/Getz battle
SS Alexei
LF Quentin
DH Thome
RF Dye
1B Paulie
C AJ
3B Fields
CF BA

This lineup is slow from 4-7, but has decent speed at 8-9-1-2-3. It's also heavily right-handed (especially if Getz doesn't win the 2B job), so I spread out the lefties, putting AJ in an RBI position. Alexei makes good contact, so even if he's not patient I think that he can move over the leadoff hitter and build RBI opportunities for the mashers.

Craig Grebeck
02-23-2009, 09:30 PM
I said none of them have enough MLB experience to draw any conclusions. If you are going to draw a conclusion based on less than 90 at bats (which none of these players have), then you have other issues.

I don't care how old someone is. If he can play he should play. And it's not like Getz wasn't playing in a bandbox in AAA either.

In this discussion I asked you to explain why you think my point is so ludicrous. You haven't done so. I've explained my view. So how about you put up instead of ridiculing me without backing it up. I think I've proven time and again on these boards that I'm open to being proven wrong and will admit it when I am.

So if I'm wrong, tell me what's right, and tell me why.
If you're posting minor league stats to back up your point, you have to recognize the context of these stats. Nix was, quite simply, playing in Colorado Springs for the third time as a twenty-five year old. The previous two seasons he'd been underwhelming at best. Of course, Colorado Springs is an offensive carnival and the statistics posted there are notoriously inflated. You also credited him for swiping 69% of his stolen base attempts (a horrid number). He simply enjoyed a nice 67 games or so in his third trip around an offensively inflated league and ballpark. Color me unimpressed.

Getz, on the other hand, flourished in AAA. Granted, Charlotte is a small ballpark, but I see no reason to believe that he can't post similar AVG/OBP numbers in the majors. He's played great every campaign (sans 2006), while Nix has fluttered multiple years in the minors (three seasons with an OPS below .700).

If anything, this shouldn't be a competition. It's absolutely mind numbing that the ballclub would even consider having an "open competition" in spring training for a starting spot. Spring training statistics are as worthless as the paper they're printed on, and history shows that both Nix and Lillibridge aren't at the level of Getz.

guillen4life13
02-23-2009, 10:01 PM
If you're posting minor league stats to back up your point, you have to recognize the context of these stats. Nix was, quite simply, playing in Colorado Springs for the third time as a twenty-five year old. The previous two seasons he'd been underwhelming at best. Of course, Colorado Springs is an offensive carnival and the statistics posted there are notoriously inflated. You also credited him for swiping 69% of his stolen base attempts (a horrid number). He simply enjoyed a nice 67 games or so in his third trip around an offensively inflated league and ballpark. Color me unimpressed.

Getz, on the other hand, flourished in AAA. Granted, Charlotte is a small ballpark, but I see no reason to believe that he can't post similar AVG/OBP numbers in the majors. He's played great every campaign (sans 2006), while Nix has fluttered multiple years in the minors (three seasons with an OPS below .700).

If anything, this shouldn't be a competition. It's absolutely mind numbing that the ballclub would even consider having an "open competition" in spring training for a starting spot. Spring training statistics are as worthless as the paper they're printed on, and history shows that both Nix and Lillibridge aren't at the level of Getz.

Thank you. Now at least I understand where you're coming from. :smile:

There's a reason I'm not GM (and likewise for you), but it's not unheard of for someone to just figure it out for once even if it's a little later in the game. See Scott Podsednik in 2003. If I knew more about Nix as a defender to say he's better than Getz, I'd be pushing for him.

a 67% steal rate isn't good. But the only difference between his and Getz is a single SB. If Getz were to attempt one more and get caught, they're on the same page.

I'm not saying I want Nix to win the job. In my post that's drawn the reaction, I said "I predict," not "I want." I'd like Getz to take it just based on the fact that he's the homegrown guy and supposedly is a very strong fundamental ballplayer. However, I predict that Nix will win the job in ST. Whether he still has the job come May 1, I would predict he won't. But I honestly don't know that any one of the three options are going to be consistently good this coming season. It may be a musical chairs situation.

I do like the idea of a competition in ST. It motivates the players to shine above their competition and, ideally, the players rake and make it a very tough decision for Ozzie and co to make.

I will say that I think Brent Lillibridge needs another year in AAA based on last year's stats. So I think either Nix or Getz will win the 2B battle.

Daver
02-23-2009, 10:07 PM
a 67% steal rate isn't good. But the only difference between his and Getz is a single SB. If Getz were to attempt one more and get caught, they're on the same page.


There are people here that want Jerry Owens to start in center and lead off because he can hit that steal percentage.

There are way to many people here that approach analysis from a fantasy baseball perspective.

A. Cavatica
02-23-2009, 10:16 PM
1. Getz 2B
2. Ramirez SS
3. CQ LF
4. Dye RF
5. Thome DH
6. Konerko 1B
7. AJ C
8. Fields 3B
9. Anderson CF

That's mine too, though I might be tempted to bat Dye 3rd and TCQ 4th.

russ99
02-23-2009, 10:24 PM
The thing about Nix, Getz and Lillibridge is that any one of them could win the job. So I guess we'll have to see. Their minor league numbers are out the window on Wednesday, as I'm sure Ozzie will consider their spring performance as the main and deciding factor on who wins the job.

We all have our favorites, and I'm sure the Sox would love to see a homegrown player like Getz take the job, but it will be an interesting competition.

Let's hope the guy who wins goes on to have a good season.