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thomas35forever
02-16-2009, 12:46 PM
Apparently, Papi's for a one-year ban for PED users as well.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3911153

RockyMtnSoxFan
02-16-2009, 01:33 PM
He must be fairly confident that his name wasn't on that 104-person list, and that he's not using anything that can be detected.

DirtySox
02-16-2009, 01:37 PM
Sarcastic Lilly Reponds to Ozzie's Proposal (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1433227,lilly-ozzie-steroids-021609.article)

Ted Lilly Isn't

hi im skot
02-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Ted Lilly comes off as a major douche in that interview.

Marqhead
02-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Ted Lilly is their player rep :?:

I don't think they could have picked a bigger *******. Then again, maybe that's the point.

oeo
02-16-2009, 02:03 PM
Sarcastic Lilly Reponds to Ozzie's Proposal (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1433227,lilly-ozzie-steroids-021609.article)

Ted Lilly Isn't

Oh man, we could be seeing the first Ozzie blow up of the year.

Ted Lilly is a dick.

Boondock Saint
02-16-2009, 02:04 PM
Ted Lilly comes off as a major douche in that interview.

Hell yeah, he does. He couldn't possibly sound dumber.

1) He compares the public's scrutiny in regards to the PED scandal to the tabloids concern with Britney Spears' daily life.

2) He all but suggests that everyone look the other way in regards to PED use because "There are a lot of other good things going on out there".

3) He thinks that Ozzie's suggestion is extreme because maybe there could be mistakes in testing or possible corruption influencing the testing.

God, the Cubs couldn't find someone better for a Players Association rep?

GoGoCrede
02-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Ted Lilly comes off as a major douche in that interview.

As if that .gif of him throwing his glove down on the mound wasn't proof enough!

everafan
02-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Can't wait to see Ozzie's response to Lilly!

hi im skot
02-16-2009, 02:20 PM
As if that .gif of him throwing his glove down on the mound wasn't proof enough!

I almost posted that but it didn't go over so well last time I did.

GoGoCrede
02-16-2009, 02:23 PM
I almost posted that but it didn't go over so well last time I did.

Good call. Picturing the fail in my head is enough for me.

Thome25
02-16-2009, 02:26 PM
Sarcastic Lilly Reponds to Ozzie's Proposal (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1433227,lilly-ozzie-steroids-021609.article)

Ted Lilly Isn't

Ted Lilly=TOOL.

Eddo144
02-16-2009, 02:48 PM
Hell yeah, he does. He couldn't possibly sound dumber.

1) He compares the public's scrutiny in regards to the PED scandal to the tabloids concern with Britney Spears' daily life.

2) He all but suggests that everyone look the other way in regards to PED use because "There are a lot of other good things going on out there".

3) He thinks that Ozzie's suggestion is extreme because maybe there could be mistakes in testing or possible corruption influencing the testing.

God, the Cubs couldn't find someone better for a Players Association rep?
Yeah, that's the most ridiculous one. My understanding was that all samples are tested twice, so that one test can't give a false positive and have that prove a player's guilt. I could be wrong, though I can't imagine this sort of thing was overlooked when testing was first agreed to by the MLBPA.

RKMeibalane
02-16-2009, 03:03 PM
Ted Lilly comes off as a major douche in that interview.

That's because he is a major douche.

RKMeibalane
02-16-2009, 03:05 PM
He must be fairly confident that his name wasn't on that 104-person list, and that he's not using anything that can be detected.

Exactly what I was thinking. Ortiz's power fall-off seems awfully suspicious. It's going to be interesting to see how productive he is now that his wrist is no longer an issue.

RockyMtnSoxFan
02-16-2009, 03:14 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. Ortiz's power fall-off seems awfully suspicious. It's going to be interesting to see how productive he is now that his wrist is no longer an issue.

I suppose it's not entirely fair, but I am highly suspicious of anybody who is a home run hitter at this point.

EDIT: Plus, he went from never hitting more than 20 homers and never having a SLG over .500 as a Twinkie, to hitting more than 30 homers and having a SLG close to or above .600 with Boston, except for last year. Sudden increases in offense, when a player has been around for a few years at least, combined with lots of homers equals suspicious behavior in my mind.

Nellie_Fox
02-16-2009, 03:21 PM
I suppose it's not entirely fair, but I am highly suspicious of anybody who is a home run hitter at this point.

EDIT: Plus, he went from never hitting more than 20 homers and never having a SLG over .500 as a Twinkie, to hitting more than 30 homers and having a SLG close to or above .600 with Boston, except for last year. Sudden increases in offense, when a player has been around for a few years at least, combined with lots of homers equals suspicious behavior in my mind.I'm not saying Ortiz did or did not, but you can't go on this. The Twins and the Red Sox have very different philosophies. In Minnesota, everyone, and I mean everyone, is expected to be a situational hitter, to hit behind a runner and move him over, to give himself up for the team.

When Ortiz got to Boston and would ground out to the second baseman to move a runner to third, they told him to knock that off, that his job was to drive the ball with authority. So he changed his approach.

MUsoxfan
02-16-2009, 03:31 PM
He must be fairly confident that his name wasn't on that 104-person list, and that he's not using anything that can be detected.

On the other hand, Ted Lilly is really trying to divert attention away from the list already bringing things up like corrupt tests. Kinda makes you wonder....

hi im skot
02-16-2009, 03:32 PM
When Ortiz got to Boston and would ground out to the second baseman to move a runner to third, they told him to knock that off, that his job was to drive the ball with authority. So he changed his approach.

Plus they've got the short fence in right.

thomas35forever
02-16-2009, 03:44 PM
I wonder if Ted tested positive back in '03.

FedEx227
02-16-2009, 04:00 PM
Plus they've got the short fence in right.

Exactly.

I use to think Ortiz was juicing but when you look at the two situations he went to both from a team philosophy to the park he plays in the power-surge was a natural progression.

Eddo144
02-16-2009, 04:13 PM
I'm not saying Ortiz did or did not, but you can't go on this. The Twins and the Red Sox have very different philosophies. In Minnesota, everyone, and I mean everyone, is expected to be a situational hitter, to hit behind a runner and move him over, to give himself up for the team.

When Ortiz got to Boston and would ground out to the second baseman to move a runner to third, they told him to knock that off, that his job was to drive the ball with authority. So he changed his approach.
Ortiz even said something that they asked him to "hit like a little bitch" in Minnesota.

I was suspicious of Ortiz, and I don't know how to take this news. Could it be that he's clean now, and wants to appear forever clean by saying this?

Hendu
02-16-2009, 04:13 PM
Yeah, that's the most ridiculous one. My understanding was that all samples are tested twice, so that one test can't give a false positive and have that prove a player's guilt. I could be wrong, though I can't imagine this sort of thing was overlooked when testing was first agreed to by the MLBPA.

I think I can see where he's coming from on this point only (but not his other comments or his doucheyness). If a player tests positive for accidentally taking an OTC supplement that has a banned substance, he should be punished for being a dumbass...but not to the tune of an entire season.

I can also understand the corruption angle. Does anyone think that lower-level players who test positive will be treated the same as a star player? Especially with the money that owners are investing in certain players...wouldn't surprise me if positive results from star players were "misplaced," or if star players were tipped off about upcoming tests. Actually, looks like that's already happening with the current punishments in place.

The problem with the current system is in the implementation, not the length of punishment.

cards press box
02-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Sarcastic Lilly Reponds to Ozzie's Proposal (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1433227,lilly-ozzie-steroids-021609.article)

Ted Lilly Isn't

Could Ted Lilly have been more condescending toward the White Sox manager? Let me re-phrase that: could journeyman starter Lilly with a career ERA of 4.40 have been more condescending toward the White Sox manager who played in the World Series (1999 with Atlanta), coached in the World Series (2003 with the Marlins) and managed in the World Series (2005 with our White Sox). Lilly? No appearances in the World Series.

Let's sum that up: Guillen participated in 3 World Series and won 2, as a 3rd base coach with the Marlins in 2003 and White Sox manager in 2005. Lilly has pitched in the League Division Series for Oakland in 2002 and 2003 and the Cubs in 2007. Lilly's record in those series? 0-3 in 5 games with a 6.61 ERA.

Eddo144
02-16-2009, 06:12 PM
Could Ted Lilly have been more condescending toward the White Sox manager? Let me re-phrase that: could journeyman starter Lilly with a career ERA of 4.40 have been more condescending toward the White Sox manager who played in the World Series (1999 with Atlanta), coached in the World Series (2003 with the Marlins) and managed in the World Series (2005 with our White Sox). Lilly? No appearances in the World Series.

Let's sum that up: Guillen participated in 3 World Series and won 2, as a 3rd base coach with the Marlins in 2003 and White Sox manager in 2005. Lilly has pitched in the League Division Series for Oakland in 2002 and 2003 and the Cubs in 2007. Lilly's record in those series? 0-3 in 5 games with a 6.61 ERA.
Yeah, and I'd better not hear Minnie Minoso criticize Pablo Ozuna! Ozuna totally deserves more respect because he played in a World Series!

Come on; Lilly's a douche, but Ozzie can be too. And Lilly's no more of a douche just because Ozzie's been to a few World Series and he hasn't.

Madscout
02-16-2009, 06:31 PM
Yeah, and I'd better not hear Minnie Minoso criticize Pablo Ozuna! Ozuna totally deserves more respect because he played in a World Series!

Come on; Lilly's a douche, but Ozzie can be too. And Lilly's no more of a douche just because Ozzie's been to a few World Series and he hasn't.
I gotta give it to Ozzie for this. I know Ozzie's gums don't always spew things better than roses but Lilly does suck.

WhiteSox1989
02-16-2009, 06:33 PM
I'm surprised Ozzie didn't have much of a reaction to this.

Eddo144
02-16-2009, 06:41 PM
I gotta give it to Ozzie for this. I know Ozzie's gums don't always spew things better than roses but Lilly does suck.
I agree. Lilly's douchiness >>>>>>> Ozzie's douchiness. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of World Series each has been to.

DirtySox
02-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Ozzie Replies (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1433227,lilly-ozzie-steroids-021609.article)

The original article was updated.

Hendu
02-16-2009, 07:02 PM
Ozzie Replies (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1433227,lilly-ozzie-steroids-021609.article)

The original article was updated.

Gotta like Ozzie's response, and he's right. This steroids controversy isn't just going to blow over, as much as the union wishes it would.

cards press box
02-16-2009, 07:20 PM
Yeah, and I'd better not hear Minnie Minoso criticize Pablo Ozuna! Ozuna totally deserves more respect because he played in a World Series!

Come on; Lilly's a douche, but Ozzie can be too. And Lilly's no more of a douche just because Ozzie's been to a few World Series and he hasn't.

Your Minoso/Ozuna analogy misses the point. Guillen has been involved in baseball in some capacity for almost 2/3 of his life. He has worked his way up the ladder from player to coach to manager and has succeeded at every level. He has earned respect and should be able to speak his mind free from sarcasm from a mediocre journeyman pitcher.

I'm sorry but Lilly doesn't have the "spurs" to sarcastically tell off any major league manager, much less a highly successful one like Ozzie Guillen.

areilly
02-16-2009, 07:41 PM
I suppose it's not entirely fair, but I am highly suspicious of anybody who is a home run hitter at this point.

EDIT: Plus, he went from never hitting more than 20 homers and never having a SLG over .500 as a Twinkie, to hitting more than 30 homers and having a SLG close to or above .600 with Boston, except for last year. Sudden increases in offense, when a player has been around for a few years at least, combined with lots of homers equals suspicious behavior in my mind.

I'd chalk his surge up more to Boston's shorter fence, bombs-away offense and sharper understanding of how to harness Ortiz' big fat guy power. Also, he was only 27 when the BoSox picked him up - not an uncommon age for guys to hit their stride.

But that's just me.

Eddo144
02-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Your Minoso/Ozuna analogy misses the point. Guillen has been involved in baseball in some capacity for almost 2/3 of his life. He has worked his way up the ladder from player to coach to manager and has succeeded at every level. He has earned respect and should be able to speak his mind free from sarcasm from a mediocre journeyman pitcher.

I'm sorry but Lilly doesn't have the "spurs" to sarcastically tell off any major league manager, much less a highly successful one like Ozzie Guillen.
Lilly is one of 30 team player reps, so I don't see why he shouldn't have a say. Is he a douche? Yes. Would the Cubs have been better off choosing someone else? Probably. But Guillen proposed something that a player rep didn't like, so it's said rep's job to fight back. Previous baseball success has nothing to do with this matter.

everafan
02-16-2009, 07:58 PM
Lilly is one of 30 team player reps, so I don't see why he shouldn't have a say. Is he a douche? Yes. Would the Cubs have been better off choosing someone else? Probably. But Guillen proposed something that a player rep didn't like, so it's said rep's job to fight back. Previous baseball success has nothing to do with this matter.

Lilly has the right to his opinion and to express it. He disrespected Ozzie with his condescending statement "whatever Ozzie says, that's what we should do." Hopefully, Lou scolds him.

gosox41
02-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Apparently, Papi's for a one-year ban for PED users as well.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3911153


There must be some mistake. The union doesn't want any of this, and they are clearly looking out for the best interest of their members.


Bob

jabrch
02-16-2009, 08:28 PM
there must be some mistake. The union doesn't want any of this, and they are clearly looking out for the best interest of their members.


bob

ouch - my eyes!

cards press box
02-16-2009, 09:05 PM
Lilly has the right to his opinion and to express it. He disrespected Ozzie with his condescending statement "whatever Ozzie says, that's what we should do." Hopefully, Lou scolds him.

Lilly certainly has a right to his opinion. And, to be sure, he is free to be as sarcastic and condescending as he wants. But don't other people have an equal right to criticize him for his sarcasm and condescension?

By the way, Ozzie Guillen didn't sound too happy with him, either. Guillen noted that he was a player rep long before Lilly was and advised Lilly to worry about his pitching and not the White Sox manager.

Viva Medias B's
02-16-2009, 10:14 PM
Who is the White Sox player rep currently? And what does he think of this issue?

thomas35forever
02-16-2009, 10:36 PM
Who is the White Sox player rep currently? And what does he think of this issue?
I thought it was Buehrle?:scratch:

I_Liked_Manuel
02-17-2009, 12:04 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that we can cross another one of the 104 off the list

cards press box
02-17-2009, 12:30 AM
Lilly is one of 30 team player reps, so I don't see why he shouldn't have a say. Is he a douche? Yes. Would the Cubs have been better off choosing someone else? Probably. But Guillen proposed something that a player rep didn't like, so it's said rep's job to fight back. Previous baseball success has nothing to do with this matter.

I see your point but Lilly's sarcasm doesn't sit well with me. Lilly could have just said that Ozzie and, for that matter, David Ortiz are entitled to their opinions but that he disagreed. Instead, Lilly followed the path of Rich Hill and picked a fight with the White Sox and Guillen even though he did not need to do so. Of course, Lilly literally picked a fight with his manager in Toronto a few years ago.

For his part, Guillen said that he respected Lilly's opinion but did not understand why Lilly did not respect his opinion. That's a legitimate question and, unfortunately, the answer lies in the notion that for some (notably, the Chicago Tribune and their various media outlets), the Sox, their manager, their player and their fans are second class citizens in this town. Here are a few examples:

The Sox win the World Series, have a parade down LaSalle Street and Michael Barrett complains about having to watch the Sox "march down our streets." Remember that one? Barrett sucker punches A.J. Pierzynski and Hill starts shooting his off his mouth about what A.J. did wrong. Late in 2005, the Indians are nipping on the Sox' heels and Eric Zorn of the Tribune starts running the Sox' "Toxic Number" (i.e., the number of Sox losses and Cleveland wins to eliminate the Sox from the playoffs). And now Ted Lilly taking pot shots at Guillen over his personal opinion that MLB needs to enforce stronger penalties to give some teeth to its steroid ban.

Think no double standard exists here? Can you imagine the pier eight brawl that would erupt if some newspaper published the Cubs' "Toxic Number" or if some Sox pitchers ripped Lou Piniella?

Hendu
02-17-2009, 07:35 AM
Lilly has the right to his opinion and to express it. He disrespected Ozzie with his condescending statement "whatever Ozzie says, that's what we should do." Hopefully, Lou scolds him.

Not only did he disrespect Ozzie, but he also disrespected the fans by comparing the steroids issue with celebrity obsession and Britney Spears. I can't believe that after all that has happened, players and the union still don't get how big of a deal this is.

WhiteSox1989
02-17-2009, 07:37 AM
I see your point but Lilly's sarcasm doesn't sit well with me. Lilly could have just said that Ozzie and, for that matter, David Ortiz are entitled to their opinions but that he disagreed. Instead, Lilly followed the path of Rich Hill and picked a fight with the White Sox and Guillen even though he did not need to do so. Of course, Lilly literally picked a fight with his manager in Toronto a few years ago.

For his part, Guillen said that he respected Lilly's opinion but did not understand why Lilly did not respect his opinion. That's a legitimate question and, unfortunately, the answer lies in the notion that for some (notably, the Chicago Tribune and their various media outlets), the Sox, their manager, their player and their fans are second class citizens in this town. Here are a few examples:

The Sox win the World Series, have a parade down LaSalle Street and Michael Barrett complains about having to watch the Sox "march down our streets." Remember that one? Barrett sucker punches A.J. Pierzynski and Hill starts shooting his off his mouth about what A.J. did wrong. Late in 2005, the Indians are nipping on the Sox' heels and Eric Zorn of the Tribune starts running the Sox' "Toxic Number" (i.e., the number of Sox losses and Cleveland wins to eliminate the Sox from the playoffs). And now Ted Lilly taking pot shots at Guillen over his personal opinion that MLB needs to enforce stronger penalties to give some teeth to its steroid ban.

Think no double standard exists here? Can you imagine the pier eight brawl that would erupt if some newspaper published the Cubs' "Toxic Number" or if some Sox pitchers ripped Lou Piniella?

Anytime someone brings up that Barrett thing, I get pissed. I mean he was really that upset that there were Sox fans everywhere in CHICAGO after the WON A WORLD SERIES?

I hate the Cubs.

white sox bill
02-17-2009, 07:43 AM
If I were Ozzie, after hearing Lilly's comment of "whatever Ozzie says, that's what we should do." I would have dished it right back to him, even had some fun with it, like: "Hey Teddy finally gets it, congrats to him!"

WhiteSoxFan84
02-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Ted Lilly comes off as a major douche in that interview.

:scratch: Why? Because he makes fun of Ozzie? I love Ozzie as much as the next guy, but he chimes in on EVERYTHING. I know reporters ask him the questions but it seems he sometimes goes out of his way to make sure everyone hears how he feels about something/someone.

And as for Lilly, he's actually very laid back and a very cool guy from everything I've read/heard.

John Gibbons would agree with you though.


If I were Ozzie, after hearing Lilly's comment of "whatever Ozzie says, that's what we should do." I would have dished it right back to him, even had some fun with it, like: "Hey Teddy finally gets it, congrats to him!"

Exactly! I used to find Ozzie VERY amusing and still do to a certain extent. But as soon as I figured out he was of the "I can dish it out all day but I can't take it at all" tribe, I found myself not being entertained by his act nearly as much.

pearso66
02-18-2009, 09:34 AM
To me, it sounds like Lilly is worried he might get busted. He's worried about a false positive? Maybe he was going to use that excuse if he got busted and was out for 50 games, but a year is too much for him. I'm with Ozzie and Ortiz. I think 1st positive, 1 year suspension, I don't know if they went further, but I'd say 2nd positive, gone, no more baseball for you.

I also think that every player should be tested every year, randomly. If you are tested early in the season, it doesn't mean you are done, you could still get tested another time, 2-3 times a year whatever, just so the player doesn't say, well I've been tested this year, I can take the rest of the year. I also think if you test positive, you should have to take a test at least once a month for a couple years or until you retire. Get rid of this whole steroids thing once and for all.

hi im skot
02-18-2009, 10:51 AM
:scratch: Why? Because he makes fun of Ozzie? I love Ozzie as much as the next guy, but he chimes in on EVERYTHING. I know reporters ask him the questions but it seems he sometimes goes out of his way to make sure everyone hears how he feels about something/someone.



I'm fine with giving Ozzie grief. As you alluded to, he brings a lot of it upon himself. However, Lilly just comes off as a whiny, arrogant prick.

DirtySox
02-28-2009, 06:32 PM
Ozzie Vs. Lilly II (http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/02/ozzie_vs_lilly_ii.html)