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View Full Version : Can a team waive its right to comp. picks to sweeten a trade?


White City
02-14-2009, 07:45 AM
Let's say Team A wants to trade an outfielder to Team B for a starting pitcher. But the deal is jammed up because Team B wants Team A to eat a lot of the outfielder's salary.

Team B, coincidentally, has been interested in signing a free-agent shortstop that was on Team A the previous season, but is balking because of the economy and the fact that it would have to surrender a draft pick as compensation to Team A.

Could Team A waive its right to a compensation pick via the shortstop as a way of sweetening the pot for Team B in lieu of eating salary?

Daver
02-14-2009, 09:12 AM
Let's say Team A wants to trade an outfielder to Team B for a starting pitcher. But the deal is jammed up because Team B wants Team A to eat a lot of the outfielder's salary.

Team B, coincidentally, has been interested in signing a free-agent shortstop that was on Team A the previous season, but is balking because of the economy and the fact that it would have to surrender a draft pick as compensation to Team A.

Could Team A waive its right to a compensation pick via the shortstop as a way of sweetening the pot for Team B in lieu of eating salary?

No. It would fall under trading draft picks, and it can't be done.

nasox
02-14-2009, 09:56 AM
No. It would fall under trading draft picks, and it can't be done.

Why can this be done in other leagues but not in baseball?

...
02-14-2009, 10:01 AM
Why can this be done in other leagues but not in baseball?

Because there is a collectively bargained agreements that prohibits it.

downstairs
02-14-2009, 10:27 AM
Because there is a collectively bargained agreements that prohibits it.

Sure, but I'm curious what the rationale is. Why would the players union care if draft picks are traded? How does that lessen the value of players?

Herbal
02-14-2009, 10:36 AM
They were discussing this situation on MLBTV Hot Stove yesterday, in regards to Orlando Hudson IIRC. They said that an NBA style sign and trade would be a way to avoid the compensation picks. So, the idea would be Arizona would re-sign Hudson and trade him to another team. Of course, they would have to have a framework for the trade in place before re-signing him.

oeo
02-14-2009, 11:22 AM
Sure, but I'm curious what the rationale is. Why would the players union care if draft picks are traded? How does that lessen the value of players?

The real question is, why would any team want to trade for a draft pick? This isn't the NFL or NBA where guys can step right in; it's a complete crap shoot.

DumpJerry
02-14-2009, 11:25 AM
Sure, but I'm curious what the rationale is. Why would the players union care if draft picks are traded? How does that lessen the value of players?
Probably to prevent teams which are deep in talent because of their wallets (Yankees, Red Sox) from stocking up with top five picks year after year.

cws05champ
02-14-2009, 11:50 AM
They were discussing this situation on MLBTV Hot Stove yesterday, in regards to Orlando Hudson IIRC. They said that an NBA style sign and trade would be a way to avoid the compensation picks. So, the idea would be Arizona would re-sign Hudson and trade him to another team. Of course, they would have to have a framework for the trade in place before re-signing him.

Yes I heard that too, but it was about Juan Cruz...i think it would really depend on the level of prospect they were looking for in a trade in lieu of not getting two picks.

eriqjaffe
02-14-2009, 12:41 PM
They were discussing this situation on MLBTV Hot Stove yesterday, in regards to Orlando Hudson IIRC. They said that an NBA style sign and trade would be a way to avoid the compensation picks. So, the idea would be Arizona would re-sign Hudson and trade him to another team. Of course, they would have to have a framework for the trade in place before re-signing him.IIRC, when a team signs a free agent, they can't trade them away until something like June. Not sure how it works if a team re-signs a player or not.

LoveYourSuit
02-14-2009, 01:20 PM
I don't know why teams put so much thought on losing draft picks. Like stated earlier, it's a crapshoot. If you really want to sign a guy or trade for him, make the move. There is reason you need that guy for that season. Draft pick ETAs are 3-5 years down the line, some of these GMs will not be around with their teams by then.

jabrch
02-14-2009, 01:24 PM
Probably to prevent teams which are deep in talent because of their wallets (Yankees, Red Sox) from stocking up with top five picks year after year.


I'd guess the same thing.

Madscout
02-14-2009, 01:42 PM
I don't know why teams put so much thought on losing draft picks. Like stated earlier, it's a crapshoot. If you really want to sign a guy or trade for him, make the move. There is reason you need that guy for that season. Draft pick ETAs are 3-5 years down the line, some of these GMs will not be around with their teams by then.
Because it is the cheapest way to get quality players, to draft them and develope them yourself. It is also the cheapest way to get other players, because teams always think they can do better than you at training players.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-14-2009, 08:06 PM
Probably to prevent teams which are deep in talent because of their wallets (Yankees, Red Sox) from stocking up with top five picks year after year.

There are ways around that (not allow teams to have more than 3 picks per round or something like that). My guess is the complete opposite, they don't want bad teams dumping more of their talented, older players for just a first or second round pick.

Daver
02-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Why can this be done in other leagues but not in baseball?

Because baseball has an anti trust exemption that states they are a sport, not a business. No other pro sport has that.

nasox
02-15-2009, 12:37 PM
Because baseball has an anti trust exemption that states they are a sport, not a business. No other pro sport has that.

Right. I forgot about that. Baseball really has it nice. I remember when Congress was grumbling about possibly removing that status if MLB didn't do anything about steroid use.

DirtySox
02-16-2009, 01:40 PM
I figure this can go here:

MLB May Amend Type A Free Agent Rules (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9227990/MLB-may-amend-Type-A-free-agent-rules?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49)

Maybe we can get Gio back again from Oakland! :wink:

Lip Man 1
02-18-2009, 12:32 PM
Don't know if this is the same link:

Says Twins want Cruz and adjusting the rules may help them get him:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090218&content_id=3843216&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Lip

TDog
02-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Because baseball has an anti trust exemption that states they are a sport, not a business. No other pro sport has that.

The history of that antitrust exception is interesting.

I don't see baseball teams bending the rules to do sign-and-trade deals. What I do see is the union fighting the current compensation system in the next collective bargaining agreement. The union has held that compensation limits free agency.

Briefly, the compromise between teams demanding compensation and compensation limiting teams from signing free agents was the compensation pool. I don't remember what free agent the White Sox lost after the 1983 season or what team signed him. I know it wasn't the Mets, but the Mets left Tom Seaver unprotected, putting him in the compensation pool where he was taken by the White Sox. What the White Sox did, enable by what the Mets didn't do, became the poster child for abolition of the compensation pool.

At future negotiations, owners will demand a salary cap, which would make compensation for lost free agents pretty much a non-issue.

Daver
02-18-2009, 01:52 PM
At future negotiations, owners will demand a salary cap, which would make compensation for lost free agents pretty much a non-issue.

The owners have been pushing for a cap in the last three CBA's, and they haven't even come close to getting it, I don't see it happening any time soon.

Lip Man 1
02-18-2009, 02:04 PM
T-Dog:

The player in question I believe was pitcher Dennis Lamp. He signed with Toronto if memory serves, which enabled the Sox to take Seaver from the unprotected pool.

Lip