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View Full Version : Kenny, get on the phone w/ the Dodgers, Braves, and Giants immediately!


WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 10:23 PM
Jermaine Dye's stock has just skyrocketed! With Adam Dunn and Bobby Abreu off the market, the teams I mentioned in the title are left with 4 options regarding their offensive (mainly in the outfield) problems:

1) Negotiate with Manny Ramirez and Scott Boras.
2) Negotiate and have to settle for a Ken Griffey or a Garret Anderson.
3) Settle with what you have now.
4) Trade for someone.

One of the more attractive names available is Jermaine Dye. His salary and age may not be attractive but they can be overlooked under the right circumstances. Other options include Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher from the Yankees along with Kaisuke Fukudome from the Cubs and Gary Matthews, Jr. from the Angels. Clearly Dye is the best option out of all of those names.

The Dodgers can't be happy with what happened today. Dunn and Abreu were their leverage/fall-back options in terms of dealing with Manny. Now with both of them having signed, Manny and Boras have all the leverage. The least the Dodgers SHOULD do is make get rumors stirring about Dye. That would also help the Sox out as they could use those rumors against teams like the Giants and Braves by telling them, "If you want Dye, you'll have to act fast and give us more".

All 3 teams have a lot of attractive pieces that could be acquired for Dye. Of course starting pitcher comes first and young, Major League ready, yet raw starting pitching at that.

From the Giants, Matt Cain would be ideal for Dye and cash but I doubt the Giants would even consider that, makes no sense for'em. Jonathan Sanchez also is attractive but word is the Giants won't move him. They also have Noah Lowry who could easily be had so wasting Dye on him would be very dumb IMO.

The Braves might have different pieces to offer, like Kelly Johnson at 2B. They also have a few very attractive top pitching prospects but it'd be hard to get them for Dye even with some of his salary being paid off.

Thoughts?

Marqhead
02-11-2009, 10:28 PM
So when we trade Dye, who is going to play RF?

guillensdisciple
02-11-2009, 10:30 PM
So when we trade Dye, who is going to play RF?


I've got a good arm, decent eye, and heavy bat. Ozzie calls me, I'm down.

PicktoCLick72
02-11-2009, 10:30 PM
Well I'm glad we figured that out.
IS this guy,Kaisuke Fukudome, related to the guy on the Cubs? I do not think any teams see him as an option for them.
Maybe the St. Paul Saints.

JermaineDye05
02-11-2009, 10:31 PM
MATT CAIN?!?!! :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

If you're going to make an ass of yourself of a GM and make a trade offer that teeters heavily in your favor, why not shoot the moon and ask for Tim Lincecum?

If the Sox were to trade with any team for Dye, I'd want it to be with the Reds or Dodgers. I like the idea of Homer Bailey, I also love the young talent that the Dodgers could offer. However if Kenny's looking for young pitching for Dye, he would create another hole in the outfield. Unless he was confident that Viciedo was ready for the majors and could play right field.

EDIT: I realized you mentioned that Matt Cain wouldn't be traded, but whenever I see a new trade rumor and I see a name of that magnitude I tend to lose it.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 10:37 PM
One thing is for certain around here, put up the perfect plan to bring peace to the world and WSI Nation will shoot holes through it right off the bat.

All right ass clowns, I'll whack your asses one at a time:

Marq: We'd clearly need to move pieces around. But it all depends on who we get and what our needs are. WORST case scenario is Owens starts in CF and BA in right. IF we have to put up with that for one season to make our rotation stronger by adding a solid, young starter alongside Burls/Danks/Floyd then so be it. I'd rather do that than sit around and hope for 85-90 wins in 2009 and get spanked in the playoffs again.

JD05: You clearly can't read so I won't even go a word further. Since you edited, here's my edit: OK.

PicktoClick: I couldn't careless what his first name is.

Daver
02-11-2009, 10:39 PM
:chopper

Put me in coach, I'm ready to play today, look at me, I can be, right field.

nug0hs
02-11-2009, 10:40 PM
1) No.
2) Hell no.
3) Yes.
4) Maybe.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 10:40 PM
:chopper

Put me in coach, I'm ready to play today, look at me, I can be, right field.

He could cover a whole lotta ground!

Daver
02-11-2009, 10:42 PM
He could cover a whole lotta ground!

Not really, he's dead.

guillensdisciple
02-11-2009, 10:42 PM
One thing is for certain around here, put up the perfect plan to bring peace to the world and WSI Nation will shoot holes through it right off the bat.

All right ass clowns, I'll whack your asses one at a time:

Marq: We'd clearly need to move pieces around. But it all depends on who we get and what our needs are. WORST case scenario is Owens starts in CF and BA in right. IF we have to put up with that for one season to make our rotation stronger by adding a solid, young starter alongside Burls/Danks/Floyd then so be it. I'd rather do that then sit around and hope for 85-90 wins in 2009 and get spanked in the playoffs again.

JD05: You clearly can't read so I won't even go a word further. Since you edited, here's my edit: OK.

PicktoClick: I couldn't careless what his first name is.

Well, I mean, you have a very valid point. I don't see why we wouldn't do it. If we are getting rid of aging talent for younger talent, why not get the cream of the crop? I have been advocating this for a while now, but the White Sox seriously need an infusion of youth. Regardless of whether it brings 72 wins or 102, we need to get younger and more athletic. Pitching wins championships, and I am sure that the White Sox will find another talent to take J.D's spot in left field. Trade for top of the line pitching, develop it, and create from inside your own farm system. Plus with the money you save you either have the chance to cover your mistakes by signing bigger names in the near future or sign the talent you have connected to the team.

If Kenny were to find a deal that would include level A pitching talent and level B outfield talent- I would be more than satisfied.

Marqhead
02-11-2009, 10:49 PM
You just suggested we put Owens in CF, and Anderson in RF.

threadclosed/

guillensdisciple
02-11-2009, 10:51 PM
You just suggested we put Owens in CF, and Anderson in RF.

threadclosed/


I have thought of dumber things.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 10:56 PM
You just suggested we put Owens in CF, and Anderson in RF.

threadclosed/

How convenient of you to leave out the words "WORST CASE SCENARIO" and I can now even throw in the word ABSOLUTE in the beginning. You're very good at manipulating what people say aren't you?

And that honestly is the worst you can think of? Just go back and look at 2007. We may experience it again with Owens and BA in the OF but 2007 didn't help us get any younger at all. This time it would make us younger and better.

munchman33
02-11-2009, 11:00 PM
At this point, the only way we trade Dye is if Viciedo, Fields, Lillibridge, Getz, Nix, Anderson, and Owens are all tearing the cover off the ball and vying for playing time.

Rocky Soprano
02-11-2009, 11:00 PM
One thing is for certain around here, put up the perfect plan to bring peace to the world and WSI Nation will shoot holes through it right off the bat.


You honestly think you put up the perfect plan?

This season can't start fast enough!

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 11:01 PM
At this point, the only way we trade Dye is if Viciedo, Fields, Lillibridge, Getz, Nix, Anderson, and Owens are all tearing the cover off the ball and vying for playing time.

I think you left out Richard, Poreda, Marquez, and Broadway all throwing no-hit ball :rolleyes:

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 11:02 PM
You honestly think you put up the perfect plan?

This season can't start fast enough!

:o: you can't be serious..... I said the perfect plan to bring peace to the world.... CLEARLY I was kidding.... maybe it wasn't clear enough for some of you... :scratch:

It's Dankerific
02-11-2009, 11:02 PM
You just suggested we put Owens in CF, and Anderson in RF.

threadclosed/

How convenient of you to leave out the words "WORST CASE SCENARIO" and I can now even throw in the word ABSOLUTE in the beginning. You're very good at manipulating what people say aren't you?

And that honestly is the worst you can think of? Just go back and look at 2007. We may experience it again with Owens and BA in the OF but 2007 didn't help us get any younger at all. This time it would make us younger and better.

WSF84,

Its not only the fact that you wanted to start BA and Owens together, its that you had Owens in CF instead of BA. (or, just Owens playing an OF position.)

CWSpalehoseCWS
02-11-2009, 11:02 PM
If the right deal came along, I'm sure KW would go for it. The Dodgers will call Kenny and at least inquire about Dye, they'd be stupid not to, IMO.

The way I look at it, the Sox are in great shape for 2010. If Fields, Getz/Lillibridge, or Richard/Marquez pan out or at least perform somewhat decent, we'll be in good shape. I figure Poreda, Viciedo, and Beckham will be ready next season. Contreras will be off the books as will Dye and Thome. The only real holes we could have would be CF/LF and the rotation if Danks or Floyd don't repeat last season's performances. Trading Dye just seems to make more sense to me now then waiting mid-season.

Marqhead
02-11-2009, 11:02 PM
How convenient of you to leave out the words "WORST CASE SCENARIO" and I can now even throw in the word ABSOLUTE in the beginning. You're very good at manipulating what people say aren't you?

And that honestly is the worst you can think of? Just go back and look at 2007. We may experience it again with Owens and BA in the OF but 2007 didn't help us get any younger at all. This time it would make us younger and better.

So because it has been worse in years past, we should take steps backwards this season? I'm not sure that's great logic.

Brian Anderson and Jerry Owens are not proven players. combined, they probably wouldn't start one position on most MLB teams, let alone two. Is there a chance that either of them could put up a decent season this year? Yes, and I hope for our sake that they do.

But to suggest that both of them should be starting on the White Sox 2009 opening day roster is pathetic.

I agree that Dye has high value now, and he would fit for several teams. I would love to trade him and get some young pitching talent, while freeing up his contract, but not if it means that Owens and BA are going to see 300+ games next year.

Make a suggestion for someone to replace JD, and I'll take this thread seriously. Until then, I stand by my statements.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 11:04 PM
WSF84,

Its not only the fact that you wanted to start BA and Owens together, its that you had Owens in CF instead of BA. (or, just Owens playing an OF position.)

:o: OMG..... how dumb are some of you????? I never said I wanted that. wow.... :o: to the max.

And as for your second point, if you had to put them in CF and RF, you'd put Owens in RF??? Forget BA because he could work ANYWHERE you put him. But Owens in RF??

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 11:07 PM
Make a suggestion for someone to replace JD, and I'll take this thread seriously. Until then, I stand by my statements.

One possibility: Kenny will either turn it into a 3-way or make another trade to acquire Xavier Nady.

Dye is a middle of the lineup hitter and can provide a lot more offense for a team than Nady can. I'm saying that to counter the, "Why wouldn't the team trading for Dye just trade for Nady?".

It's Dankerific
02-11-2009, 11:09 PM
:o: OMG..... how dumb are some of you????? I never said I wanted that. wow.... :o: to the max.

And as for your second point, if you had to put them in CF and RF, you'd put Owens in RF??? Forget BA because he could work ANYWHERE you put him. But Owens in RF??

I don't want Owens ON THE ROSTER. And that can be quoted back at me for life without any fear from me.

Marqhead
02-11-2009, 11:10 PM
One possibility: Kenny will either turn it into a 3-way or make another trade to acquire Xavier Nady.

Dye is a middle of the lineup hitter and can provide a lot more offense for a team than Nady can. I'm saying that to counter the, "Why wouldn't the team trading for Dye just trade for Nady?".

It would be nice to add a young pitcher and free up the money, but the dropoff from Dye to Nady is pretty steep.

Bottom line, if JD is traded I want a good return.

Rocky Soprano
02-11-2009, 11:11 PM
:o: you can't be serious..... I said the perfect plan to bring peace to the world.... CLEARLY I was kidding.... maybe it wasn't clear enough for some of you... :scratch:

Hard to take someone serious when they suggest having Owens and Anderson in the OF at the same time.

You may have not said that is what you want or would like, but you suggested it.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 11:11 PM
I don't want Owens ON THE ROSTER. And that can be quoted back at me for life without any fear from me.

That's great. I want Ichiro or Sizemore in CF instead of Owens, BA, or Wise. I want Pujols at first instead of PK. I want Johan Santana in our rotation instead of Bartolo Colon. So what's your point?


So because it has been worse in years past, we should take steps backwards this season? I'm not sure that's great logic.

As for this, I'd rather we get some one young AND good for Dye rather than let him go for free. I'll sacrifice the 2009 season in hops of an amazing 3-5 years to come.

It would be nice to add a young pitcher and free up the money, but the dropoff from Dye to Nady is pretty steep.

Bottom line, if JD is traded I want a good return.

Of course. I wouldn't be happy if he was traded just to free up money. We have to get at one piece that sticks on the major league squad and produces very well for at least 3 more years.


Going to get me Portillo's, you guys want anything? :redneck

Daver
02-11-2009, 11:16 PM
:o: OMG..... how dumb are some of you????? I never said I wanted that. wow.... :o: to the max.

And as for your second point, if you had to put them in CF and RF, you'd put Owens in RF??? Forget BA because he could work ANYWHERE you put him. But Owens in RF??

In this pure fantasy scenario the prudent call would be Brian in center, Jerry in left, and Carlos in right.

EuroSox35
02-11-2009, 11:20 PM
How convenient of you to leave out the words "WORST CASE SCENARIO" and I can now even throw in the word ABSOLUTE in the beginning. You're very good at manipulating what people say aren't you?

And that honestly is the worst you can think of? Just go back and look at 2007. We may experience it again with Owens and BA in the OF but 2007 didn't help us get any younger at all. This time it would make us younger and better.

The problem is that I think trading Dye makes this the most likely scenario (though Ozzie would probably start Wise over one of those guys). I know, it's kind of a catch 22 since a guy like Abreu off the market is the point of the thread, but in reality we basically got burned by not making a 'Dye to the Reds' deal happen when it was brought up months ago. I can't rip on Kenny for that though, he doesn't have a crystal ball to what Abreu would go for, and IIRC the Reds were quick to refute the Dye trade report, so I don't even know if an offer was on the table

Also, if that's what Abreu went for, and that's the type of player they're looking for, why would those teams mentioned want to pay Dye more while also giving things up in a trade (instead of making a hard push for Abreu when they had the chance. It's not like he was snapped up quickly)?

kittle42
02-11-2009, 11:23 PM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the repercussions. I guess I don't blame them.

voodoochile
02-11-2009, 11:29 PM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the rpercussions. I guess I don't blame them.

Rough time to be trying to trade big money talent. Probably a good thing they dumped Swish and Javy when they did because given the market the offers would probably be lower now.

Still, it isn't a horrible place to be. They've got a season to work some of these kids into the lineup and next year they get $30M to play with on the FA market and they still might win their division this year.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-11-2009, 11:37 PM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the rpercussions. I guess I don't blame them.

Absolutely.

champagne030
02-11-2009, 11:38 PM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the rpercussions. I guess I don't blame them.

What are you talking about??? Marquez is rated, by BA, as our 20th rated prospect or so. Are you telling me he's able to put up 180 innings of good pitched ball?

I believe JR is pissed as **** that the Twinkies had salaries of about $60M last season and took us to a playoff game. IMO, he told his, single minded GM, who told his dumb **** manager, that salaries will be cut.

It sucks we have a clowns for a manager and GM, but what'new?

voodoochile
02-11-2009, 11:40 PM
What are you talking about??? Marquez is rated, by BA, as our 20th rated prospect or so. Are you telling me he's able to put up 180 innings of good pitched ball?

I believe JR is pissed as **** that the Twinkies had salaries of about $60M last season and took us to a playoff game. IMO, he told his, single minded GM, who told his dumb **** manager, that salaries will be cut.

It sucks we have a clowns for a manager and GM, but what'new?

:whoflungpoo:

thomas35forever
02-11-2009, 11:45 PM
I've got a good arm, decent eye, and heavy bat. Ozzie calls me, I'm down.
I played right field for most of my baseball career. True that I haven't played organized ball since I was 14, but c'mon, I'm a veteran here! Trade Dye and gimme a call, Kenny!

Daver
02-11-2009, 11:51 PM
What are you talking about??? Marquez is rated, by BA, as our 20th rated prospect or so.

The opinion of Baseball America and two bucks will buy me a cup of coffee, without the two bucks I just get laughed at, and I go to that gas station everyday.

Tragg
02-11-2009, 11:55 PM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the repercussions. I guess I don't blame them.
Maybe, but a lot of people were making that call last year (go ahead and rebuild)....
Doing a Cleveland/Toronto style rebuilding job (much less a Cincy rebuilding job) is not a great idea.

EuroSox35
02-11-2009, 11:59 PM
I don't think we half-assed rebuilding. Last year people said the same thing, with holes in 2/3 of the OF, 2B, and 2 of our starters and we won the division, Kenny said 'you can contend and kind of rebuild at the same time' and people laughed at him and said 'no you can't'. And if Quentin doesn't have some freak injury (I can use 'if' here since it was a dumbass freak move and not just from natural gameplay or training) we probably don't need a 1 game playoff

And I'm not some blind supporter either, I've said we were lucky to be in a terrible division and beat up on them last year, but things don't always come together perfectly like a video game. I don't think it's a stretch to think Kenny didn't think that Abreu could have been had for 5 mil, or that the Reds wouldn't want to do the Dye deal where they'd have to give up talent for an aging OF in a time period when money's tight

champagne030
02-12-2009, 12:03 AM
:whoflungpoo:


^ Caution, ass kissing above. :?:

:Koolaid: :PollyAnna:

champagne030
02-12-2009, 12:05 AM
The opinion of Baseball America and two bucks will buy me a cup of coffee, without the two bucks I just get laughed at, and I go to that gas station everyday.

I know you didn't say it, but Marquez sucks. What's your opinion of him?

thomas35forever
02-12-2009, 12:21 AM
I know you didn't say it, but Marquez sucks. What's your opinion of him?
Like it or not, he could be our fifth starter. Start all the "Marquez sucks" threads you want, but until he proves just that, you have to assume he's going to challenge Clayton Richard's spot in the rotation.

Daver
02-12-2009, 12:21 AM
I know you didn't say it, but Marquez sucks. What's your opinion of him?

It is impossible to form an opinion on a player you have never seen play, his stats are underwhelming, and the fact that the Yankees gave him no chance when they were hurting for pitching does not instill much confidence, but I have yet to see him pitch. Bad mechanics can be possibly corrected, bad confidence issues are a whole different realm.

guillensdisciple
02-12-2009, 12:23 AM
What are you talking about??? Marquez is rated, by BA, as our 20th rated prospect or so. Are you telling me he's able to put up 180 innings of good pitched ball?

I believe JR is pissed as **** that the Twinkies had salaries of about $60M last season and took us to a playoff game. IMO, he told his, single minded GM, who told his dumb **** manager, that salaries will be cut.

It sucks we have a clowns for a manager and GM, but what'new?


Well that's rational, we must have really REALLY dumb management in a division that has almost every team besides the Twins spending more then the twins.

Also the fact that winning teams in the American League (disregard the Rays of course) have spent a lot of money, makes every other winning team in the American League pail in comparison to the Twins and also make their management look like idiots.

Here is the problem with the Twins, sure they can have the talent to stay pesky, but because of their refusal to pay money, or at least to spend it wisely they haven't made it past the first round of the playoffs since this millenium began.

The White Sox have won the world series, with this dumb management and have surprised every known man three times. Add the fact that the White Sox went away from the formula that originally won them the whole thing, then you might have the reason why they are infusing the youth. So, it isn't mismanagement, it is going back from greedy baseball (which we began getting into the moment we won the world series) to smart baseball (which has won championships out of many teams). What are the Red Sox? Infusion of young talent and veteran talent. What are the Devil Rays? A few hundred years of developed talent. What are the Phillies? A team full of young stars taken from within the system, and because of that the consequent type of payroll.

What about the teams that lose? Cubs- not enough home grown talent, just grossly overpaid talent. Yankees- ditto. Tigers- Ditto.

Really, there is no correlation between winning the world series and spending astronomical amounts of money, nor is there a correlation between being cheap and being good at the draft and winning a championship. Rather there is a correlation between being smart with your money and combining it with good home grown talent to win a world series. Either that, or, in the extreme case of the Rays, being persistent with the talent you have and allowing it to prosper for many years.

We don't have the patience that Rays fans have, we will have to live with the "half-assed" rebuilding process, and find that we probably should have been going this direction the moment we won the world series (I don't mean infuse young players everywhere, but instead of wasting money on BIG names and the POTENTIAL of having HUGE numbers- rather I mean continue building on players that got us to the series.)

We got greedy, and now we have to scale back to go back to the original formula, the formula that will lead us to a world series again.

voodoochile
02-12-2009, 12:36 AM
^ Caution, ass kissing above. :?:

:Koolaid: :PollyAnna:

No, I just felt that was a fitting answer to your post.

I mean the first part about JR and KW having a sitdown and cutting payroll based on the Twinkies is pure bull****. I mean it's so past the realm of speculation it's not worth the value of the electrons it takes to print it on my screen.

As to the second part and given the run the Sox have been on under KW and OG, I can only surmise that you wouldn't know a good thing if it fell out the sky landed on your face and wiggled.

I repeat...

:whoflungpoo

kittle42
02-12-2009, 12:38 AM
Really, there is no correlation between winning the world series and spending astronomical amounts of money, nor is there a correlation between being cheap and being good at the draft and winning a championship. Rather there is a correlation between being smart with your money and combining it with good home grown talent to win a world series. Either that, or, in the extreme case of the Rays, being persistent with the talent you have and allowing it to prosper for many years.

We don't have the patience that Rays fans have, we will have to live with the "half-assed" rebuilding process, and find that we probably should have been going this direction the moment we won the world series (I don't mean infuse young players everywhere, but instead of wasting money on BIG names and the POTENTIAL of having HUGE numbers- rather I mean continue building on players that got on the series.)

We got greedy, and now we have to scale back to go back to the original formula, the formula that will lead us to a world series again.

Good post.

jabrch
02-12-2009, 12:48 AM
It is impossible to form an opinion on a player you have never seen play

How untrue...

Look at all the folks here on WSI who have opinions on guys they have never seen play. It's ignorant - but not impossible.

tm1119
02-12-2009, 01:40 AM
I think people are overvaluing Dye's trade value a little bit. We're not going to get a good young MLB ready SP for him. A failed prospect like Bailey or just an unproven prospect is much more likely. No team is going to eat a 12mil contract of a 36 year old OF for only 1 year and still give up good talent in return. Trading Dye now makes no sense. Keep him until mid season and see how our team is doing. If we dont have a realistic shot at the playoffs then you dump him. Teams tend to be more desperate at the deadline anyway.

Boondock Saint
02-12-2009, 02:07 AM
I think JD's value to the Sox is greater than his value to any other team. JD has been the most consistent hitter in our lineup over the last few years. If we move him, the middle of our batting order becomes much more vulnerable to extended slumps.

sullythered
02-12-2009, 04:00 AM
I think in most years Dye would have huge trade value, but this doesn't seem to be the year for it. Look at the contracts that the guys on the market got. Considering that, I don't think there are many out there, if any, willing to take on a contract like Jermaine's, even if he is an excellent player.

Frater Perdurabo
02-12-2009, 06:57 AM
Not really, he's dead.

Ozzie regularly reserves CF for players who field about as well as gravestones.

Bucky F. Dent
02-12-2009, 08:01 AM
He could cover a whole lotta ground!


Small strike zone, too.

Bucky F. Dent
02-12-2009, 08:05 AM
Rough time to be trying to trade big money talent. Probably a good thing they dumped Swish and Javy when they did because given the market the offers would probably be lower now.

Still, it isn't a horrible place to be. They've got a season to work some of these kids into the lineup and next year they get $30M to play with on the FA market and they still might win their division this year.


IMO, win, lose, or draw, with the kids that we will be seeing in the lineup on a regular basis, this should be a pretty entertaining season.

Sargeant79
02-12-2009, 08:11 AM
What are you talking about??? Marquez is rated, by BA, as our 20th rated prospect or so. Are you telling me he's able to put up 180 innings of good pitched ball?


I guess we'll really be able to tell for sure if the Braves wind up trading for him, but I actually think the return for Swisher in this market was pretty good. The Sox got a team to take the entire $20 million or so owed over the next 3 years to a guy who hit .219 last year and was benched in favor of Dewayne Freakin' Wise. In return, they got good two young pitchers, both of which may contribute at the major league level this year, and a guy who may be an important cog this year as long as Ozzie keeps him in his intended role as a utility guy. What's the problem here?

spawn
02-12-2009, 08:46 AM
IMO, win, lose, or draw, with the kids that we will be seeing in the lineup on a regular basis, this should be a pretty entertaining season.
My thoughts exactly. It's going to be great seeing position battles in ST. People will probably think I'm crazy, but i'm more excited about this season than I was for last season. Do I think this team as constructed is good enough to win a World Series? No. However, I am excited in seeing what these young guys are capable of.

guillensdisciple
02-12-2009, 08:50 AM
IMO, win, lose, or draw, with the kids that we will be seeing in the lineup on a regular basis, this should be a pretty entertaining season.

My thoughts exactly. It's going to be great seeing position battles in ST. People will probably think I'm crazy, but i'm more excited about this season than I was for last season. Do I think this team as constructed is good enough to win a World Series? No. However, I am excited in seeing what these young guys are capable of.

We need more of that, excitement in general. Sure we don't have to believe that the Sox are going to win the world series, and realize that they have flaws, but instead of killing yourself about it, why not look at what you do have and see if there are any positives in it?

There are positives to be had going into this season, I am excited to see how the kids develop, and help/ help to kill this team. No sarcasm involved in that last statement.

asindc
02-12-2009, 09:37 AM
What are you talking about??? Marquez is rated, by BA, as our 20th rated prospect or so. Are you telling me he's able to put up 180 innings of good pitched ball?

I believe JR is pissed as **** that the Twinkies had salaries of about $60M last season and took us to a playoff game. IMO, he told his, single minded GM, who told his dumb **** manager, that salaries will be cut.

It sucks we have a clowns for a manager and GM, but what'new?

As pissed as JR might be about that, think about how pissed the owners of Cleveland and Detroit are that they were sitting at home watching the Twinkees take us to a playoff game.

It sucks that we have a GM that has only managed to win us one WS series title and make another playoff appearance while turning over the roster twice, and a manager who has a 12-4 playoff record. What's not new is that some of our fans have forgotten the rate of success our beloved Sox enjoyed before KW and Ozzie arrived.

Now, on to the topic at hand. If Dye is traded, BA has to start in CF and we have to hope he hits at least .265. Then it comes down to KW possibly making another move or, heaven forbid, Owens as our LF. I know this has been covered, but any trade proposal that involves Dye for Cain straight up deserves to be laughed at. Let's look at this more realistically.

white sox bill
02-12-2009, 09:58 AM
I think JD's value to the Sox is greater than his value to any other team. JD has been the most consistent hitter in our lineup over the last few years. If we move him, the middle of our batting order becomes much more vulnerable to extended slumps.

I was thinking same...the mere thought of runners on first and second, one out and a slumping PK comes to bat is enough to make me want to puke. If thats not a sure DP, I don't know what is

JohnTucker0814
02-12-2009, 10:12 AM
I think out of pure respect for JD, it's hard for Kenny to part with him. Remember how they had a hand shake deal and Texas came in with a last minute offer that was higher and JD declined their offer because of his "word". I'm sure Kenny has a lot of respect for him and I'd imagine if JD said he'd prefer to stay here, then that's exactly what Kenny will do. It's not like he is a bad player that we are trying to get rid of, a la Swisher.

kittle42
02-12-2009, 11:22 AM
The Kids Can Play!

oeo
02-12-2009, 11:36 AM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the repercussions. I guess I don't blame them.

I don't think that's true at all. Dye won't go now for the same reason he wouldn't go at the deadline in 2007: no one was willing to give up what Kenny thinks he's worth.

I don't think all the rumors about Dye, Jenks, etc. being on the market were false. The prices were not met, however.

Kenny is the last guy I would think is afraid of repercussions. This is the same guy that traded Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik, who traded fan favorite Aaron Rowand weeks after winning the World Series, who sold the farm for Nick Swisher and then traded him a year later for a (comparable) bag of crap, etc. Kenny's not scared.

pmck003
02-12-2009, 12:13 PM
Really, there is no correlation between winning the world series and spending astronomical amounts of money, nor is there a correlation between being cheap and being good at the draft and winning a championship. Rather there is a correlation between being smart with your money and combining it with good home grown talent to win a world series. Either that, or, in the extreme case of the Rays, being persistent with the talent you have and allowing it to prosper for many years.



I agree with you in principal but would argue that you can also import "home grown" talent ala Quentin, Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Lillibridge, Viciedo, etc. I'd give the Sox credit for starting this type of thinking earlier than this year. (I would guess it's important for your minor leaguers to see a few of them getting promoted.) In general I think you bring up a good point in that teams that spend alot of money on a few players tend to overlook other holes and are also missing having that youth that is often busting their ass just to be on the team.

DSpivack
02-12-2009, 12:15 PM
I agree with you in principal but would argue that you can also import "home grown" talent ala Quentin, Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Lillibridge, Viciedo, etc. I'd give the Sox credit for starting this type of thinking earlier than this year. (I would guess it's important for your minor leaguers to see a few of them getting promoted.) In general I think you bring up a good point in that teams that spend alot of money on a few players tend to overlook other holes and are also missing having that youth that is often busting their ass just to be on the team.

Depends on your definition of "home grown." None of those are players the Sox drafted and brought through their minor league system.

FedEx227
02-12-2009, 12:38 PM
Something about the words "import" and "home-grown talent" doesn't quite fit. I sort of understand what he's saying he just presented it in a bit of an oxy-moron.

It's Dankerific
02-12-2009, 01:07 PM
I think he means cheap talent.

pmck003
02-12-2009, 01:24 PM
Depends on your definition of "home grown." None of those are players the Sox drafted and brought through their minor league system.

Maybe I said it bad - what you said is my point though.

Gavin
02-12-2009, 01:25 PM
:chopper

Put me in coach, I'm ready to play today, look at me, I can be, right field.

Ain't no rule says a dog can't play baseball!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle2cqhndjris3e

Goose
02-12-2009, 03:31 PM
The opinion of Baseball America and two bucks will buy me a cup of coffee, without the two bucks I just get laughed at, and I go to that gas station everyday.

Wait, you mean you don't grow your own coffee beans, grind them with a mortar and pestle and brew your coffee using an old sock as a filter and water boiled over an open flame?


I knew it, you're all talk.

voodoochile
02-12-2009, 03:48 PM
Wait, you mean you don't grow your own coffee beans, grind them with a mortar and pestle and brew your coffee using an old sock as a filter and water boiled over an open flame?


I knew it, you're all talk.

He would if he owned socks...:tongue:

NLaloosh
02-13-2009, 12:07 PM
I'm pretty sure that if KW could get some team to take Dye's contract and give the Sox a good young player in return that he would do the deal.

I'm also pretty sure that no team will offer that to KW and that Dye is with the Sox this year.

EndemicSox
02-13-2009, 04:18 PM
If the right deal came along, I'm sure KW would go for it. The Dodgers will call Kenny and at least inquire about Dye, they'd be stupid not to, IMO.

The way I look at it, the Sox are in great shape for 2010. If Fields, Getz/Lillibridge, or Richard/Marquez pan out or at least perform somewhat decent, we'll be in good shape. I figure Poreda, Viciedo, and Beckham will be ready next season. Contreras will be off the books as will Dye and Thome. The only real holes we could have would be CF/LF and the rotation if Danks or Floyd don't repeat last season's performances. Trading Dye just seems to make more sense to me now then waiting mid-season.

I agree, trading Dye now makes sense if the return is young, MLB ready talent. On the other hand, we are going to need a replacement for Thome, and I think Dye would be an excellent DH. Who knows what kind of numbers he can put up if he is only focusing on tearing the cover off the ball.

russ99
02-13-2009, 04:49 PM
I agree, trading Dye now makes sense if the return is young, MLB ready talent. On the other hand, we are going to need a replacement for Thome, and I think Dye would be an excellent DH. Who knows what kind of numbers he can put up if he is only focusing on tearing the cover off the ball.

I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea for the Sox to exercise Dye's mutual $12M option ($.5M more than this year) given he has a good year and if he's here after the deadline. Dye's better than almost all the DH's in the league, and would still have value on the trade market next season...

I doubt Thome would be back in 2010, likely only under a drastically reduced contract.

cws05champ
02-14-2009, 12:44 PM
I agree, trading Dye now makes sense if the return is young, MLB ready talent. On the other hand, we are going to need a replacement for Thome, and I think Dye would be an excellent DH. Who knows what kind of numbers he can put up if he is only focusing on tearing the cover off the ball.
However, sometimes guys have a tough time staying focused on just hitting when they switch from a position to DH. I think I remember Frank having struggles when he first went to DH and when he played 1st he hit much better. Also, if Dye doesn't want to DH full time there could be a problem.

Madscout
02-14-2009, 04:57 PM
:chopper

Put me in coach, I'm ready to play today, look at me, I can be, right field.
Is that a Mastif.
God I want a dog.

Daver
02-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Is that a Mastif.
God I want a dog.

Labrador Retriever.

Madscout
02-14-2009, 05:03 PM
Labrador Retriever.
Still good.
On Dye, it may be a good time to unload. We have plenty of holes to fill, and most are bigger than RF.

Ranger
02-16-2009, 08:41 PM
The fundamental problem is the Sox half-assing the rebuilding process. Dye won't go because they want to pretend they are "rebuilding while contending." They would have been better off sacrificing 2009. But they are afraid of the repercussions. I guess I don't blame them.

I don't think that's really it at all. I think it's more of the idea that no team is willing to trade their good young talent for a corner outfielder that's in the final year of his contract. Especially, when you consider there are still free agent options you can sign for cheaper AND get to keep your young players at the same time. This has been true lately, but it is even more so this offseason.