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View Full Version : White Sox & Bobby Abreu Speculation Thread EXTRAVAGANZA!!!


everafan
02-03-2009, 09:33 AM
It's on rumor central on ESPN. You have to be an insider to read the story, but the headlline is White Sox Make Offer to Abreu. If anyone has a subscription, is it just a misleading headline?

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors?&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2***b %2ffeatures%2frumors

Over By There
02-03-2009, 09:40 AM
I don't see why the Sox would make an offer to Abreu unless Dye was traded.

By the way, Whats the Score...

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 09:49 AM
It says that according to the New York Daily News, the Sox made a 1 year, $8 million offer to him. Doesn't really say anything else except that the Mets and Mariners are also interested but haven't made an offer.

As Over By There said, this doesn't fit unless Dye is going somewhere.

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 09:53 AM
I am sure Kenny will not trade Dye unless/until he signs Abreu. It is smart business IMO. If he traded Dye then Bobby can put the screws to Kenny and pit him against other teams making Kenny offer more years or money knowing Kenny "needs" him. This way if he can get Bobby to sign Kenny can either trade Dye, Konerko (if he thinks Dye can play first), or Thome (Dye to DH platoon with Abreu)

JohnTucker0814
02-03-2009, 09:54 AM
I am sure Kenny will not trade Dye unless/until he signs Abreu. It is smart business IMO. If he traded Dye then Bobby can put the screws to Kenny and pit him against other teams making Kenny offer more years or money knowing Kenny "needs" him. This way if he can get Bobby to sign Kenny can either trade Dye, Konerko (if he thinks Dye can play first), or Thome (Dye to DH platoon with Abreu)

It can go the other way too, if we sign Abreu then the teams Kenny is trying to trade Dye to will tell him to shove it for any high price talent in return because Kenny "has" to trade Dye...

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 09:57 AM
I just had a scary thought...what if KW thinks that one of Dye, Abreu, or TCQ is a center fielder?

Frightening. Almost Rob Mackowiak level frightening.

Marqhead
02-03-2009, 10:00 AM
I just had a scary thought...what if KW thinks that one of Dye, Abreu, or TCQ is a center fielder?

Frightening. Almost Rob Mackowiak level frightening.

That just flashed through my mind as well. :o:

everafan
02-03-2009, 10:01 AM
Well that would one horrible defensive/great offensive outfield

tick53
02-03-2009, 10:05 AM
I hope it's only a rumor. I thought this club wanted to go younger. I'd rather see Dye here than Abreu. They are close being to the same ballplayer anyway. What ever happened to "speed and defense". I just don't get it.

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 10:08 AM
If Kenny can't trade Abreu then we have insurance for Thome, Konerko, and Dye if any of them get hurt. It could turn into the beautiful disaster similar to what the Blackhawks have with Huet and Khabby...before the season everyone was freaking out that Khabby needed to be traded. No one wanted him they tried to ship the guy off to Russia and now he is arguably their best goaltender. I think the competition for the position has really helped him play so well this season.

bestkosher
02-03-2009, 10:10 AM
Kenny most likely has a trade on hold. It is probably is for some AA or AAA pitcher and outfielder combo. So when he signs Abreu the team involved is not going to make a whole lot of stink about it. If it was for some really high level talent maybe but it most likely is a decent AAA and a good AA which is not that much to bicker over.

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 10:10 AM
I hope it's only a rumor. I thought this club wanted to go younger. I'd rather see Dye here than Abreu. They are close being to the same ballplayer anyway. What ever happened to "speed and defense". I just don't get it.

Abreu is not slow he had 22 stolen bases last year plus he is a decent base runner. He could be a great guy to have around if he is willing to teach how to steal bases (he had 40 one year) and how to hit. Plus, he is a fan of Ozzie. We already are younger. You don't want every guy on your team to be 24 years old. There needs to be some experience.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I hope it's only a rumor. I thought this club wanted to go younger. I'd rather see Dye here than Abreu. They are close being to the same ballplayer anyway. What ever happened to "speed and defense". I just don't get it.

Actually, I disagree with that. Dye's defense and power are both probably better at this point, but Abreu will have a higher OBP and will be a base stealing threat while scoring and driving in just as many runs as Dye would.

Either one would essentially be on a 1 year deal here...And let's just say that they get someone to take all of Dye's contract and they sign Abreu for $8 mil, that's a net savings of around $3 mil if I remember Dye's contract terms correctly.

I still think it would be a very unexpected move, but I could see how it would make sense.

everafan
02-03-2009, 10:14 AM
Dye and Abreu are pretty equal in value, but Abreu is faster and not quite as powerful. He would actually fit better in the lineup. He would become our best option to lead off. But I hate to see Dye moved.

guillensdisciple
02-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I have insider and here it is:

Mod edit: deleted copyrighted text. Since you saw that ESPN claims all rights, why would you question whether you can post it?

Hope I am not infringing any copyright laws, but ESPN WROTE THIS AND CLAIMS ALL RIGHTS TO IT.

DirtySox
02-03-2009, 10:31 AM
Here is the source article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/02/02/2009-02-02_la_dodgers_reportedly_make_manny_ramirez.html

It's the blurb at the bottom.

soltrain21
02-03-2009, 10:48 AM
Seems like it would be smart to take in this market.

chisox83cm
02-03-2009, 10:48 AM
ESPN Insider rumor mill says we offered Abreu a 1yr 8million dollar deal. This is odd, we would have to move Dye for this to work.

ChiSoxFan81
02-03-2009, 10:50 AM
Already a thread in What's the Score? - where rumors belong

salty99
02-03-2009, 10:54 AM
If this is true, I would have rather spent 8 mil on a starter like Garland.

soxfan43
02-03-2009, 10:55 AM
It came from a blurb in a NY daily news report. Scroll to the bottom.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/02/02/2009-02-02_la_dodgers_reportedly_make_manny_ramirez.html

bestkosher
02-03-2009, 10:55 AM
With all the 1 year deals being talked about, especially for the higher priced talent. It is going to make next off season interesting. It will nearly double the amount of high profile free agents. If the economy still has not recovered enough by then this could be a trend and start a flux of moves every offseason of one year deals causing mass free agent pools the likes we have not seen in a while.

munchman33
02-03-2009, 10:58 AM
If that's true, we must have a Dye trade on the table.

thedudeabides
02-03-2009, 11:02 AM
It'll be interesting to hear more about this. I'm sure Cowley and Levine will "scoop" this story sometime today. Although, they won't provide anything of value.

This could just be the agent getting a new name out there, but if true there would probably be another move to go along with it. Here comes the Dye for Bailey or Dye/Konerko to the Angels talk. I mean, come on we haven't had any Chone Figgins talk for a while. :puking:

soxfan43
02-03-2009, 11:05 AM
If that's true, we must have a Dye trade on the table.


That would be my guess. I love JD, but Abreu would add some balance and could hit 2nd instead of AJ.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 11:07 AM
It'll be interesting to hear more about this. I'm sure Cowley and Levine will "scoop" this story sometime today. Although, they won't provide anything of value.

This could just be the agent getting a new name out there, but if true there would probably be another move to go along with it. Here comes the Dye for Bailey or Dye/Konerko to the Angels talk. I mean, come on we haven't had any Chone Figgins talk for a while. :puking:

Speaking of...

A friend of mine who I will admit is a misguided Cubs fan just messaged me and said he heard something on the radio in Chicago about Dye for Figgins. Anyone else hear this or is he full of crap?

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 11:09 AM
If this is true, I would have rather spent 8 mil on a starter like Garland.

8 mil on a starter, sure. But not 8 mil on a starter like Garland.

ChiSoxFan81
02-03-2009, 11:09 AM
Speaking of...

A friend of mine who I will admit is a misguided Cubs fan just messaged me and said he heard something on the radio in Chicago about Dye for Figgins. Anyone else hear this or is he full of crap?

Has to be crap. Fields is the next Ventura.

Rohan
02-03-2009, 11:10 AM
I don't see a reason to get rid of Dye unless we can really get a lead off hitter or a starting pitcher out of it.
But.. In Kenny We Trust.

thedudeabides
02-03-2009, 11:11 AM
Has to be crap. Fields is the next Ventura.

I'm guessing Figgins would be playing CF here.

Vestigio
02-03-2009, 11:12 AM
Young SP or bust for Dye

ChiSoxFan81
02-03-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm guessing Figgins would be playing CF here.

Nah, we have enough depth in CF. :redneck:

Over By There
02-03-2009, 11:16 AM
I'm guessing Figgins would be playing CF here.

Obviously these are only two rumored deals, but I would think Figgins would play 3B and lead off. With a solid lead off man in place and a solid offensive replacement for JD, I'd be more than happy with BA in CF.

everafan
02-03-2009, 11:18 AM
I would think we can get more than Figgins for Dye (although his salary is prohibitive) - but if it means we sign Abreu I'd be ok with it.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Obviously these are only two rumored deals, but I would think Figgins would play 3B and lead off. With a solid lead off man in place and a solid offensive replacement for JD, I'd be more than happy with BA in CF.

To be clear...I did not personally hear the Dye-Figgins report. I'm at work out of state...for all I know, it could be complete BS.

Just wanted to throw that out there...don't want to be one of those guys.

areilly
02-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Young, busted SP for Dye

Fixed it.

Mod edit: I though we've made it clear to not do "fixed your post" posts.

:redneck

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 11:21 AM
I don't see a reason to get rid of Dye unless we can really get a lead off hitter or a starting pitcher out of it.
But.. In Kenny We Trust.

Wasn't there a rumor in december about Dye to Reds, Votto to Angles, Figgins to Sox? That would get you a lead off hitter....

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 11:24 AM
I posted in the other thread that I thought there was a rumor in december that was a three team deal between the Angels, Reds and Sox...

Dye to Reds, Votto to Angels, Figgins to Sox.....

EMachine10
02-03-2009, 11:25 AM
I would think we can get more than Figgins for Dye (although his salary is prohibitive) - but if it means we sign Abreu I'd be ok with it.
We should get more than Figgins for Dye, yes.

sox1970
02-03-2009, 11:27 AM
What everyone is overlooking...Abreu has to accept a 1-yr, $8 million deal.

He'll probably end up getting better offers, and the Sox won't match.

Over By There
02-03-2009, 11:28 AM
What everyone is overlooking...Abreu has to accept a 1-yr, $8 million deal.

He'll probably end up getting better offers, and the Sox won't match.

No doubt, and on its face you'd think Abreu is worth more than 1/$8M. But this offseason is turning out to be quite the buyer's market...

chunk
02-03-2009, 11:28 AM
In this offseason he's almost lucky to get an offer like that.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 11:29 AM
What everyone is overlooking...Abreu has to accept a 1-yr, $8 million deal.

He'll probably end up getting better offers, and the Sox won't match.

I'm not so sure about that. Very few teams have that much left to spend, and the ones that do (Yankees, Red Sox, Angels) don't appear to be interested in him, or at least have not been publicly linked to him.

soltrain21
02-03-2009, 11:29 AM
What everyone is overlooking...Abreu has to accept a 1-yr, $8 million deal.

He'll probably end up getting better offers, and the Sox won't match.

I'm really not sure he will get a better offer...

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 11:33 AM
I don't see him getting a much better deal.....

sox1970
02-03-2009, 11:34 AM
I'm really not sure he will get a better offer...

We'll see. Spring training games begin in 3 weeks. The dust has to settle soon.

UofCSoxFan
02-03-2009, 11:36 AM
The only way Kenny signs Abreau is if he has a trade involving Dye lined up. We aren't going with the 3 corner OF debacle after the Swisher experience of last year. Dye still has some talent but Abreau is better defensively (Dye is an absolute liability at this point), is faster (he has over 300 career sbs, incuding 22 last year) and is just as good an run producer, even with a bit less power. That being said, if you could flip Dye for another part, you effectively are making a lateral (at worse) move in RF and improving 3B or CF. Seems pretty smart to me.

BlackSox
02-03-2009, 11:37 AM
Speaking of...

A friend of mine who I will admit is a misguided Cubs fan just messaged me and said he heard something on the radio in Chicago about Dye for Figgins. Anyone else hear this or is he full of crap?


That would be Mully & Hanley on WSCR... it was in the context of "if they do sign Abreu, then they could trade Dye for Figgins, then you'd have your lead-off man..."

In other words, speculation.

doublem23
02-03-2009, 11:38 AM
Somebody needs to point to what they see in Dye's defensive skills that make him a "liability" in the field. Is he a Gold Glove outfielder? No. Is he a competent corner outfielder? Yes.

If we played in a spacious park like PETCO, maybe there's a point, but the OF at the Cell is small and the wind patterns there are notoriously difficult to play. I think a lot of you are in for a shock if Abreu is our Opening Day RF... He's not going to be any better.

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 11:41 AM
to WSI a lot of times Speed=good OF Defense.....

that is not always the case...

NLaloosh
02-03-2009, 11:43 AM
I just had a scary thought...what if KW thinks that one of Dye, Abreu, or TCQ is a center fielder?

Frightening. Almost Rob Mackowiak level frightening.

Yes. Kenny Williams is a blind person that has never seen baseball played.

rwcescato
02-03-2009, 11:45 AM
It says that according to the New York Daily News, the Sox made a 1 year, $8 million offer to him. Doesn't really say anything else except that the Mets and Mariners are also interested but haven't made an offer.

As Over By There said, this doesn't fit unless Dye is going somewhere.

I just heard on xm homeplate that the sox signed him to that 1 yr contract. I couldnt believe I heard the Sox mentioned in anything.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 11:49 AM
Yes. Kenny Williams is a blind person that has never seen baseball played.

That was half teal. Although I probably should have said Ozzie, not KW. He was really the one responsible for the Mackowiak in CF debacle of 2006 by insisting on starting him there every day.

NLaloosh
02-03-2009, 11:52 AM
I could actually see a Dye for Figgins and a prospect deal going down. It would make a lot of sense both ways.

Figgins could start in CF or 2B. Or, he could move around in the outfield and the infield and at DH. The Sox would have a lot of possibilities and options with Figgins and Abreu added.

But, I would love a lineup like this:

Figgins
Abreu
Quentin
Thome
Konerko
Ramirez
A.J.
Fields
Anderson/Lillibridge/Getz

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 11:52 AM
that offense could do some damage...

DirtySox
02-03-2009, 11:55 AM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/02/a-halfpriced-abreu-works-for-me-and-apparently-the-white-sox-agree.html

Rosenbloom's thoughts.

NLaloosh
02-03-2009, 11:57 AM
it looks like things are finally about to break with the Dodgers giving Manny a 48 hour window. I believe that Manny signs with them soon and then Dunn goes to the Nationals.

I believe Abreu signs next and I don't see him going anywhere but to the Sox.

The other teams of consequence that want an outfielder are the Giants, Angels and Braves. The Mets are done spending. And, of these remaining teams they would be more in need of a power hitter like Dye than a player like Abreu.

So, I see the Sox moving Dye and adding Abreu. We'll see.

hi im skot
02-03-2009, 11:59 AM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/02/a-halfpriced-abreu-works-for-me-and-apparently-the-white-sox-agree.html

Rosenbloom's thoughts.

Ah, the classic "Konerko for Figgins" rumor.

Good lord...

Over By There
02-03-2009, 11:59 AM
But, I would love a lineup like this:

Figgins
Abreu
Quentin
Thome
Konerko
Ramirez
A.J.
Fields
Anderson/Lillibridge/Getz

That doesn't quite work positionally, but take Fields out, put Figgins at 3B, BA in CF and Getz/Lillibridge at 2B and I'd be a happy camper.

Although we could arguably get better value for Dye than Figgins straight up, sometimes you have to make moves that fit your needs. I'd rather have a guy like Figgins that could address a question mark, rather than a "higher valued" package of middle infielders or corner outfielders, that we just don't need at the moment.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 12:02 PM
That doesn't quite work positionally, but take Fields out, put Figgins at 3B, BA in CF and Getz/Lillibridge at 2B and I'd be a happy camper.



Actually, I'd like Fields to have his shot. I know Figgins can play CF, although I admit I don't know how well...doesn't he play 2B also?

asindc
02-03-2009, 12:02 PM
I just had a scary thought...what if KW thinks that one of Dye, Abreu, or TCQ is a center fielder?

Frightening. Almost Rob Mackowiak level frightening.

So in other words, you have frightened yourself with your own pure speculation. Hmmm...:rolleyes:

Huisj
02-03-2009, 12:03 PM
I posted in the other thread that I thought there was a rumor in december that was a three team deal between the Angels, Reds and Sox...

Dye to Reds, Votto to Angels, Figgins to Sox.....

Why would the Reds trade Votto to get Dye?

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 12:05 PM
I didn't make up the rumor....I just posted it...see the link here....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/95681-who-will-the-los-angeles-angels-of-anaheim-pursue-now

I never said it was true...it is a rumor from a rumor site....take it for what it is worth...

Over By There
02-03-2009, 12:07 PM
Actually, I'd like Fields to have his shot. I know Figgins can play CF, although I admit I don't know how well...doesn't he play 2B also?

I think he's played some at 2B during his career, but not lately. I'm sure someone else is a better judge of Figgins' better/best defensive position(s).

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 12:09 PM
my thoughts on a "jack of all trades" is that if he were really good at one position he would stay there, but if he is serviceable at many then he gets moved around....

Meatpants
02-03-2009, 12:09 PM
Wouldn't Abreau play left with Quentin moving to right? I recall them talking about that when the Dye rumors started...

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 12:16 PM
So in other words, you have frightened yourself with your own pure speculation. Hmmm...:rolleyes:

I frighten myself frequently.

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 12:21 PM
Wouldn't Abreau play left with Quentin moving to right? I recall them talking about that when the Dye rumors started...

6 of one half a dozen of the other....

It really doesn't matter IMO

Thome25
02-03-2009, 12:27 PM
It can go the other way too, if we sign Abreu then the teams Kenny is trying to trade Dye to will tell him to shove it for any high price talent in return because Kenny "has" to trade Dye...

Or the opposite happens because Abreu would be off the market and no one really wants Manny because he's a headcase. The teams looking for a corner outfielder would then be bidding against each other for Dye.

CashMan
02-03-2009, 12:32 PM
Why would the Reds trade Votto to get Dye?


Did you forget who is managing the Reds?

UofCSoxFan
02-03-2009, 12:32 PM
Somebody needs to point to what they see in Dye's defensive skills that make him a "liability" in the field. Is he a Gold Glove outfielder? No. Is he a competent corner outfielder? Yes.

If we played in a spacious park like PETCO, maybe there's a point, but the OF at the Cell is small and the wind patterns there are notoriously difficult to play. I think a lot of you are in for a shock if Abreu is our Opening Day RF... He's not going to be any better.

I realize that taking good routes, positioning, and good jumps can all make up for a lack speed....and that speed can mask a lot of flaws in these areas. That being said, one needs average speed still. Dye at one point was a great defensive OF IMO. Last year, he would catch almost everything he could get to. The problem is, many of his diving catches last year are plays Dye makes standing up 2 years ago. Maybe liability was too strong a word, but he's below average at this point.

Go back to that Boston series where he couldn't get to ball after ball and you'll see what I mean.

soxfan43
02-03-2009, 12:33 PM
XM radio is saying Abreu accepted this. Im trying to find confirmation elsewhere.

CashMan
02-03-2009, 12:33 PM
Or the opposite happens because Abreu would be off the market and no one really wants Manny because he's a headcase. The teams looking for a corner outfielder would then be bidding against each other for Dye.


He is going to regret turning down that $25 mill 1yr deal. He is probably thinking he is going to do what Clemens did and comeback in the middle of the year and someone will give him an insane amount of money.

NardiWasHere
02-03-2009, 12:33 PM
Or the opposite happens because Abreu would be off the market and no one really wants Manny because he's a headcase. The teams looking for a corner outfielder would then be bidding against each other for Dye.

Let's sign Abreu AND Manny, then we could really get something for Dye!

soxfan43
02-03-2009, 12:35 PM
Did you forget who is managing the Reds?


Did you forget that managers don't make trades, GMs do?

SoxGirl4Life
02-03-2009, 12:36 PM
XM radio is saying Abreu accepted this. Im trying to find confirmation elsewhere.
Saw it on a message board somewhere too..

John Barrett
02-03-2009, 12:36 PM
heard this on espn


the White Sox offered a one-year, $8MM deal to free agent outfielder Bobby Abreu.


also in NY daily news
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2009/02/02/2009-02-02_la_dodgers_reportedly_make_manny_ramirez.html

oeo
02-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Has to be crap. Fields is the next Ventura.

Who is to say if Figgins were to come here (and Dye for Figgins does sound like crap), that he would play 3B? I like the idea of him playing 2B a lot better.

Thome25
02-03-2009, 12:40 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/02/a-halfpriced-abreu-works-for-me-and-apparently-the-white-sox-agree.html

Rosenbloom's thoughts.

I'd hate to say it but, Rosenbloom makes some good points in this article. I'd sooner trade Thome or Konerko and hang onto Dye (he has an option year in 2010.) Abreu would be the DH in this scenario.

Makes alot of sense.

KenBerryGrab
02-03-2009, 12:41 PM
What's the score?

Sockinchisox
02-03-2009, 12:42 PM
Levine says an Abreu signing is not imminent.

....Which means he already signed.

dickallen15
02-03-2009, 12:42 PM
I'd hate to say it but, Rosenbloom makes some good points in this article. I'd sooner trade Thome or Konerko and hang onto Dye (he has an option year in 2010.) Abreu would be the DH in this scenario.

Makes alot of sense.


So would KW. The problem is its easy to trade Konerko or Thome if its xbox, its pretty difficult in the real world. Thome can DH only. Not many teams looking for a DH are also looking to add $13 million to their payroll. Konerko is coming off a down season and is owed $25 million. There probably isn't much of a market for him considering guys like Abreu and Dunn can't get 1/3 of that.

CashMan
02-03-2009, 12:43 PM
Did you forget that managers don't make trades, GMs do?


Ohhhhh, is that how it works? So when Dusty was in Chicago and really didn't play younger players and the GM acquired vets, Dusty had nothing to do with that?

Thome25
02-03-2009, 12:43 PM
XM radio is saying Abreu accepted this. Im trying to find confirmation elsewhere.

Saw it on a message board somewhere too..


Did Abreu accept the offer? Confirmation anyone? Or is this crap?

soxfan43
02-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Ohhhhh, is that how it works? So when Dusty was in Chicago and really didn't play younger players and the GM acquired vets, Dusty had nothing to do with that?


Sure they can make requests, but they dont make the moves. Come on. And the Cubs situation is a lot different than the reds. If dusty baker walked into the reds GMs office and said he wanted to move Votto for a veteran presence he would be laughed out of the office.

Thome25
02-03-2009, 12:44 PM
So would KW. The problem is its easy to trade Konerko or Thome if its xbox, its pretty difficult in the real world. Thome can DH only. Not many teams looking for a DH are also looking to add $13 million to their payroll. Konerko is coming off a down season and is owed $25 million. There probably isn't much of a market for him considering guys like Abreu and Dunn can't get 1/3 of that.

Very true. :thumbsup:

oeo
02-03-2009, 12:48 PM
I'd hate to say it but, Rosenbloom makes some good points in this article. I'd sooner trade Thome or Konerko and hang onto Dye (he has an option year in 2010.) Abreu would be the DH in this scenario.

Makes alot of sense.

No it doesn't. Who is going to take Thome? Yeah, in a dream scenario, Thome wouldn't be back this year. Love the guy, and would love to see him hit #600 here, but he's about done.

Konerko, I think, still has at least a couple of good years left in him. I really don't think unloading him at his floor would be wise. Not only would we not get much in return, we would probably have to throw in some cash.

LoveYourSuit
02-03-2009, 12:48 PM
This is making me very itchy....


This is the one time Hawk should come out and say
"Where are you going to play him?"


God, I would hate to lose Dye if this is true. Dye is the best protection for CQ we currently have.

John Barrett
02-03-2009, 12:48 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/02/a-halfpriced-abreu-works-for-me-and-apparently-the-white-sox-agree.html

Jurr
02-03-2009, 12:55 PM
Bobby Abreu on this roster, comfortable in his role, comfortable with his manager, and out of the NY bullcrap, would be a marvelous thing. He may very well go bananas on the South Side.

Some other move has to be coming. 2 and 2 aren't equaling 4 in this equation.

Thome25
02-03-2009, 12:55 PM
No it doesn't. Who is going to take Thome? Yeah, in a dream scenario, Thome wouldn't be back this year. Love the guy, and would love to see him hit #600 here, but he's about done.

Konerko, I think, still has at least a couple of good years left in him. I really don't think unloading him at his floor would be wise. Not only would we not get much in return, we would probably have to throw in some cash.

Look at the post right above yours. I know it's a dream scenario but, it doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

It'll be nice to see Thome make history in a Sox uniform. Lord knows I love the way the guy plays.....look at my screen name after all.

I also agree that Konerko still has some good ball ahead of him as well. But, if you had a choice between of 2 players between Konerko, Dye, and Thome which 2 would you choose?

In a hypothetical situation, if the Sox had a choice I think they would keep Dye and Abreu and try to unload Konerko or Thome. Konerko and Thome are a toss-up as far as similarites go at this point.

Just because it's the dream situation, doesn't mean it wasn't a good thought.

thomas35forever
02-03-2009, 12:56 PM
I'd love this deal to happen, but what happens to Dye then? We'd probably have to trade him. Quentin could play left or right, so Abreu on the club would make sense in that area. The experts on SportsCenter are saying we'd have trouble moving Dye in the current free agency climate.

Sargeant79
02-03-2009, 12:59 PM
I'd love this deal to happen, but what happens to Dye then? We'd probably have to trade him. Quentin could play left or right, so Abreu on the club would make sense in that area. The experts on SportsCenter are saying we'd have trouble moving Dye in the current free agency climate.

Experts on Sportscenter = Oxymoron

Lip Man 1
02-03-2009, 12:59 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/02/a-halfpriced-abreu-works-for-me-and-apparently-the-white-sox-agree.html

Lip

soltrain21
02-03-2009, 01:01 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2009/02/a-halfpriced-abreu-works-for-me-and-apparently-the-white-sox-agree.html

Lip


This is the first time I've witnessed Lip post something that has been posted a couple times previous.

Cmon Lip - Big players make big plays in big games.

Gammons Peter
02-03-2009, 01:02 PM
This is the first time I've witnessed Lip post something that has been posted a couple times previous.

Cmon Lip - Big players make big plays in big games.


I was just about to say that. Bush league stuff Lip

FedEx227
02-03-2009, 01:02 PM
Can we please stop this annoying the Angels want Konerko crap.

Yes, they wanted him in 2005 when he was coming off a .283/.375/.534, 40 HR, 110 RBI season. Somehow I don't believe they are clamoring to get a hold of the older, slower, in the midst of his decline .240/.344/.438, 22 HR, 63 RBI version.

Iwritecode
02-03-2009, 01:09 PM
This is the first time I've witnessed Lip post something that has been posted a couple times previous.

Cmon Lip - Big players make big plays in big games.

I could probably find a dozen or so more examples if you want...

NLaloosh
02-03-2009, 01:11 PM
Has anyone truly CONFIRMED this offer that the Sox have supposedly made to Abreu?

Sockinchisox
02-03-2009, 01:12 PM
Everytime I see that Rosenbloom link I think they've signed him because it ends with "sox-agree".

SoxGirl4Life
02-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Everytime I see that Rosenbloom link I think they've signed him because it ends with "sox-agree".
Me too.. lol

soxfan21
02-03-2009, 01:19 PM
Everytime I see that Rosenbloom link I think they've signed him because it ends with "sox-agree".


:KW

"Frankly, This is really starting to piss me off!!!"

KyWhiSoxFan
02-03-2009, 01:23 PM
It looks to me like someone is out, most likely Dye. KW will have to shed some salary and Dye is the most likely candidate. If Abreu can come close to Dye in production, then it is makes sense from a monetary standpoint and a build-for-the-future standpoint. Abreu will cost $4 million less than Dye, and trading Dye will bring back a player or two in return.

The equation:
Abreu minus Dye = $4 million plus players.

CashMan
02-03-2009, 01:27 PM
It looks to me like someone is out, most likely Dye. KW will have to shed some salary and Dye is the most likely candidate. If Abreu can come close to Dye in production, then it is makes sense from a monetary standpoint and a build-for-the-future standpoint. Abreu will cost $4 million less than Dye, and trading Dye will bring back a player or two in return.

The equation:
Abreu minus Dye = $4 million plus players.

Here is my question: Lets say, the Reds deal for Bailey happens, why wouldn't the Reds make the offer for Abreu, rather than giving up a prospect and a little more money?

getonbckthr
02-03-2009, 01:30 PM
Maybe the Dodgers have interest in Dye?

getonbckthr
02-03-2009, 01:31 PM
Here is my question: Lets say, the Reds deal for Bailey happens, why wouldn't the Reds make the offer for Abreu, rather than giving up a prospect and a little more money?
They need right handed pop.

Lillian
02-03-2009, 01:34 PM
The other advantage to Abreu over Dye is that he bats left handed. The Sox lineup has too many right handed sluggers.
The lineup, as now constructed has four potential 30 homer right handed bats in Quentin, Dye, Konerko and Fields, with Alexei probably contributing 25. Thome is the only left handed hitter with that potential.
If Thome were to get injured they wouldnīt have a single left handed power hitter.

Therefore, the reduced salary, better speed, higher OBP and left handed bat out weigh the lower home run production disadvantage.
Moreover, the Sox would add the extra player from the trade of Dye or Konerko.

illini81887
02-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Maybe the Dodgers have interest in Dye?
I'll take Matt Kemp off their hands:D:

oeo
02-03-2009, 01:43 PM
Look at the post right above yours. I know it's a dream scenario but, it doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Just because it's the dream situation, doesn't mean it wasn't a good thought.

More like a 'duh' idea. Wouldn't expect much more from Rosenbloom, though.

In a hypothetical situation, if the Sox had a choice I think they would keep Dye and Abreu and try to unload Konerko or Thome. Konerko and Thome are a toss-up as far as similarites go at this point.

In a hypothetical situation, I trade Dye and keep Konerko. May be an unpopular opinion right now, but by the end of the season, I think that changes. And not because Dye falls off the map, but because Konerko comes back with a bang. Also factor in that any trade of Konerko would likely have cash going with him for the next two years.

ElmhurstMarcus
02-03-2009, 01:58 PM
COPYRIGHTED TEXT

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/white-sox-make.html

chisox77
02-03-2009, 01:59 PM
Interesting . . .

Thome25
02-03-2009, 01:59 PM
Wow...this thread died in a hurry. It went from XM radio is reporting that Abreu accepted the Sox offer to BAM! no more posts at all.

soltrain21
02-03-2009, 02:02 PM
Wow...this thread died in a hurry. It went from XM radio is reporting that Abreu accepted the Sox offer to BAM! no more posts at all.


Hard to say anything with no new info. I bet he agrees to it tomorrow - you know - since it's Wednesday.

fusillirob1983
02-03-2009, 02:05 PM
Hard to say anything with no new info.

That hasn't stopped people on this board before.

pmck003
02-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Wow...this thread died in a hurry. It went from XM radio is reporting that Abreu accepted the Sox offer to BAM! no more posts at all.

I could post some insane ways that Konerko or Thome could be traded if you like

JermaineDye05
02-03-2009, 02:07 PM
Carlos Quentin is gone.

Look for him to be packaged along with Gavin Floyd and Gordon Beckham (or Aaron Poreda if he can't be traded yet) for Jake Peavy

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 02:08 PM
I don't know since this was like 5 threads if it deserves it but what the hell....

:tomatoaward

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 02:08 PM
Carlos Quentin is gone.

Look for him to be packaged along with Gavin Floyd and Gordon Beckham (or Aaron Poreda if he can't be traded yet) for Jake Peavy


teal? :scratch:

JermaineDye05
02-03-2009, 02:10 PM
teal? :scratch:

Yeah, I guess it didn't sound crazy enough lol.

Thome25
02-03-2009, 02:10 PM
I could post some insane ways that Konerko or Thome could be traded if you like

Thanks but, no thanks.....we already have plenty of those types of posts thank you very much!!

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 02:11 PM
Yeah, I guess it didn't sound crazy enough lol.


What scares me is that some people have been posting that type of stuff seriously....

Lip Man 1
02-03-2009, 02:12 PM
For those wanting more news, here you go:

For what it's worth.

A member of the media told me that Ozzie has already laughed this one off. The media person said that "New York is wrong again..."

They further added that unless Dye is moved, no Abreu AND that Abreu said he wants at least two years.

Lip

SoxGirl4Life
02-03-2009, 02:14 PM
For those wanting more news, here you go:

For what it's worth.

A member of the media told me that Ozzie has already laughed this one off. The media person said that "New York is wrong again..."

They further added that unless Dye is moved, no Abreu AND that Abreu said he wants at least two years.

Lip


Well that killed my fun for the afternoon. :tongue:

DaveFeelsRight
02-03-2009, 02:18 PM
i don't know if anyone else noticed this besides me but, abreu kills the white sox.

kittle42
02-03-2009, 02:21 PM
i don't know if anyone else noticed this besides me but, abreu kills the white sox.

He sure does. 1.205 OPS!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=abreubo01&year=00

CashMan
02-03-2009, 02:24 PM
For those wanting more news, here you go:

For what it's worth.

A member of the media told me that Ozzie has already laughed this one off. The media person said that "New York is wrong again..."

They further added that unless Dye is moved, no Abreu AND that Abreu said he wants at least two years.

Lip

Easy....2yr deal $8mill total. Get it done!

JermaineDye05
02-03-2009, 02:26 PM
i don't know if anyone else noticed this besides me but, abreu kills the white sox.

Yeah he does, and Kenny always likes to go after Sox killers. We still have "Sox killers" on this team, AJ, Thome, and JD all killed the Sox before they came here. Hunter did pretty well against us too, especially on defense and we all know Kenny was after him last year. I guess since the players look their best against us is one reason why Kenny tends to target those players.

Thome25
02-03-2009, 02:27 PM
For those wanting more news, here you go:

For what it's worth.

A member of the media told me that Ozzie has already laughed this one off. The media person said that "New York is wrong again..."

They further added that unless Dye is moved, no Abreu AND that Abreu said he wants at least two years.

Lip

Well there you go. You can stick a fork in this thread.....although I don't think Abreu is going to get 2 years from anyone. Especially since Ramirez is having trouble getting a multi-year deal as well.

The Milkman
02-03-2009, 02:30 PM
This thread was fun while it lasted.

sox1970
02-03-2009, 02:31 PM
For those wanting more news, here you go:

For what it's worth.

A member of the media told me that Ozzie has already laughed this one off. The media person said that "New York is wrong again..."

They further added that unless Dye is moved, no Abreu AND that Abreu said he wants at least two years.

Lip

Sounds like something Cowley would say.

doublem23
02-03-2009, 02:38 PM
For those wanting more news, here you go:

For what it's worth.

A member of the media told me that Ozzie has already laughed this one off. The media person said that "New York is wrong again..."

They further added that unless Dye is moved, no Abreu AND that Abreu said he wants at least two years.

Lip

Was it a member of the Chicago media? If so, get Bobby's locker ready!

KyWhiSoxFan
02-03-2009, 02:39 PM
Yeah he does, and Kenny always likes to go after Sox killers. We still have "Sox killers" on this team, AJ, Thome, and JD all killed the Sox before they came here. Hunter did pretty well against us too, especially on defense and we all know Kenny was after him last year. I guess since the players look their best against us is one reason why Kenny tends to target those players.

Yeah, but good thing the Sox got rid of some Sox killers recently: Logan and Swisher, to name two. They just killed the Sox last year.

jej254
02-03-2009, 02:40 PM
i'll take Bobby. better speed than dye and a solid lefty bat in the lineup (career .300 hitter). can bat 2nd or third.

Career at the Cell.

16 gm:

.381 avg
6 hr
21 rbi
24 h
20 r
.487 obp
.746 slg
1.233 ops

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 02:40 PM
good one Ky....

Gammons Peter
02-03-2009, 02:44 PM
Sounds like something Cowley would say.


Well Cowley still thinks Garcia is available so his thoughts mean nothing

Sockinchisox
02-03-2009, 02:46 PM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=269179

Shot down.

DaveFeelsRight
02-03-2009, 02:50 PM
it said kenny said that last week....

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 03:01 PM
it also says the rumor was denied by a "white sox source" last sentence

cards press box
02-03-2009, 03:01 PM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=269179

Shot down.

I read the article and I don't see that the Sox officially denied the N.Y. Daily news report. The response from the unnamed source was vague and the quote from KW was from last week.

We'll all just have to wait and see what happens.

it said kenny said that last week....

Exactly right.

soltrain21
02-03-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm not saying it will happen or not, but a "White Sox source" shooting it down really means nothing.

jej254
02-03-2009, 03:05 PM
I read the article and I don't see that the Sox officially denied the N.Y. Daily news report. The response from the unnamed source was vague and the quote from KW was from last week.

We'll all just have to wait and see what happens.



Exactly right.



Agreed. Most rumors are always dismissed.

johnr1note
02-03-2009, 03:23 PM
i'll take Bobby. better speed than dye and a solid lefty bat in the lineup (career .300 hitter). can bat 2nd or third.

Career at the Cell.

16 gm:

.381 avg
6 hr
21 rbi
24 h
20 r
.487 obp
.746 slg
1.233 ops

Nick Swisher had similar stats at the Cell while he was with Oakland.

Sockinchisox
02-03-2009, 03:23 PM
Crasnick says the negotiations stalled early this week. The 1 yr, 8 mil offer was floated around.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3881911&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

moochpuppy
02-03-2009, 03:24 PM
I just had a scary thought...what if KW thinks that one of Dye, Abreu, or TCQ is a center fielder?

Frightening. Almost Rob Mackowiak level frightening.

Abreau has played roughly 25 or so games in CF in his career. :o:

Over By There
02-03-2009, 03:26 PM
Agreed. Most rumors are always dismissed.

60% of the time, it works every time... (sorry, couldn't resist)

kobo
02-03-2009, 03:32 PM
60% of the time, it works every time... (sorry, couldn't resist)
:rolling:

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 03:35 PM
I love the over accessibility of the media now. One source says, "Abreu signed the deal." another says, "deal died earlier this week," another says Figgins is coming for Konerko :redneck

Will the season just start already!

NLaloosh
02-03-2009, 03:36 PM
It sounds very much like Kenny was kicking the tires and seeing how low Abreu's price would go.

Who knows it could still happen. There are teams that want Dye. Dye is not the same player as Dunn or Abreu.

WhiteSox5187
02-03-2009, 03:36 PM
This is all just a precursor to bringing Aaron Rowand back to Chicago!

esbrechtel
02-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Ha ha, had to open that can of worms.....:redneck

jej254
02-03-2009, 04:01 PM
espn just reported Abreu negotiations stall. White Sox are reported to be interested in Abreu and a pitcher but must trade Dye to make salary room.

fwi.

FielderJones
02-03-2009, 04:03 PM
espn just reported Abreu negotiations stall. Whitesox are reported to be interested in Abreu and a pitcher but must trade Dye first to allow the cap room to do so.

fwi.


MLB has a cap? NWM

jej254
02-03-2009, 04:07 PM
sry i meant salary room.

thanks for your input.

DirtySox
02-03-2009, 04:08 PM
Merkin's Take:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090203&content_id=3794534&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

chaotic8512
02-03-2009, 04:31 PM
I don't see what would be so wrong with doubling the offer (2 yr., $16M), then moving Dye for pitching/prospects. I think Abreu knows he's not getting the 3/45 he wants, so he may end up taking it.

I am not in any way writing off 2009 when I say this, but it also puts us in a pretty good position for 2010, too, where we would only need to replace Thome (might be in-house anyway), Contreras (we are trying to do that now anyway), and Dotel.

thedudeabides
02-03-2009, 04:37 PM
I don't see what would be so wrong with doubling the offer (2 yr., $16M), then moving Dye for pitching/prospects. I think Abreu knows he's not getting the 3/45 he wants, so he may end up taking it.

I am not in any way writing off 2009 when I say this, but it also puts us in a pretty good position for 2010, too, where we would only need to replace Thome (might be in-house anyway), Contreras (we are trying to do that now anyway), and Dotel.

I think Abreu would probably take a one year deal and try to play himself into a better contract next year. But, who knows if the market will improve. He may not see much value in a 2yr deal at such a discount. It could work well for the Sox as he would probably be a type A free agent next year.

It sounds like a lot of things need to happen before an Abreu signing, but there actually seems like there's some smoke to this rumor.

DirtySouthsider
02-03-2009, 04:46 PM
I think Abreu would probably take a one year deal and try to play himself into a better contract next year. But, who knows if the market will improve. He may not see much value in a 2yr deal at such a discount. It could work well for the Sox as he would probably be a type A free agent next year.

It sounds like a lot of things need to happen before an Abreu signing, but there actually seems like there's some smoke to this rumor.

I don't think that's really possible for a 35 year old outfielder. Abreu has been a very consistent player throughout his career, so if teams don't want him now, then they aren't going to want him at 36 at a higher price and more years.

oeo
02-03-2009, 05:08 PM
espn just reported Abreu negotiations stall. White Sox are reported to be interested in Abreu and a pitcher but must trade Dye to make salary room.

fwi.

Hopefully that pitcher is Ben Sheets. Dye for Abreu, Sheets, and a prospect or two? Would still have to add some payroll, though.

kittle42
02-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Would still have to add some payroll, though.

Not likely to happen, by all current indications.

Rdy2PlayBall
02-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Wouldn't all this happening be the best thing possible for the Sox? Get good stuff for Dye, AND get a player almost equal to Dye. It would be great! :D: ... but Dye is one of my favorite players. :whiner:

oeo
02-03-2009, 05:16 PM
Not likely to happen, by all current indications.

Yeah, but getting Sheets at only a one or two year contract would be perfect. Might be a situation where they make an exception.

Sheets is also a guy that has been on Kenny's radar before.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-03-2009, 05:21 PM
Hopefully that pitcher is Ben Sheets. Dye for Abreu, Sheets, and a prospect or two? Would still have to add some payroll, though.

I wish. It's probably Odalis Perez :whiner:

I think we'll see Dye, $4.5 mill ([Dye's $11.5 mill owed in 2009 + $1 mill buyout for 2010] - Abreu's potential $8 mill owed in 2009 = $4.5), and a mid-level prospect dealt to either LAA for Figgins or just Dye and the cash to the Reds for Bailey. This would happen right before or right after the Sox ink Abreu.

IMO, the PERFECT and most reasonable situation is the Sox dealing Dye/Cash/BA or a mid-level prospect to the Angels for Figgins, signing Abreu, and signing a pitcher that can fit the "#3" bill at least. That way we have a leadoff man, a centerfielder (Figgins - even if he doesn't have a great arm, he'll be able to cover decent ground), an established SP, and a great OBP guy to replace Dye.

1) S Figgins - CF
2) S Abreu - RF
3) R Quentin - LF
4) L Thome - DH
5) R Konerko - 1B
6) R Ramirez - SS
7) L Pierzynski - C
8) R Fields - 3B
9) R Getz - 2B

Although I heard Ozzie say that AJ will stay in the # 2 hole, I think Abreu's OBP needs to be ahead of Q/Thome/PK.

thedudeabides
02-03-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't think that's really possible for a 35 year old outfielder. Abreu has been a very consistent player throughout his career, so if teams don't want him now, then they aren't going to want him at 36 at a higher price and more years.

Well, he has to hope for a better market next year. Not likely, but he can always accept arbitration next year, if he takes a one year offer, and expect a raise. He's definitely not going to get anywhere near what he wants.

SoxGirl4Life
02-03-2009, 05:43 PM
Cowley's take. fwiw.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1411322,whitesox-abreu-deal-020309.article

oeo
02-03-2009, 06:12 PM
1) S Figgins - CF
2) S Abreu - RF
3) R Quentin - LF
4) L Thome - DH
5) R Konerko - 1B
6) R Ramirez - SS
7) L Pierzynski - C
8) R Fields - 3B
9) R Getz - 2B

Although I heard Ozzie say that AJ will stay in the # 2 hole, I think Abreu's OBP needs to be ahead of Q/Thome/PK.

Getz is a lefty.

And right now, AJ should be our #2 hitter again. He's our best option (I want Getz leading off). If Abreu comes here, I think he's in the 2-hole.

CWSpalehoseCWS
02-03-2009, 06:19 PM
I would love to have Abreu on this team. He's probably the only FA left out there I would like to see the Sox sign.

soxinem1
02-03-2009, 06:34 PM
I would love to have Abreu on this team. He's probably the only FA left out there I would like to see the Sox sign.

Hmmm. Why would:

1. The White Sox sign Abreu for a year when they have Dye for a year?

2. Who would trade for Dye at 11.5 million, give up the players the White Sox want, when they could sign Big Bobby for less or comparable and give up no picks or players?

3. Why would the White Sox sign Big Bobby for eight million when they would probably have to pay some of Dye's salary if/when he is traded?

This aquisition makes no sense as it is laid out.

thomas35forever
02-03-2009, 06:36 PM
Hmmm. Why would:

1. The White Sox sign Abreu for a year when they have Dye for a year?

2. Who would trade for Dye at 11.5 million, give up the players the White Sox want, when they could sign Big Bobby for less or comparable and give up no picks or players?

3. Why would the White Sox sign Big Bobby for eight million when they would probably have to pay some of Dye's salary if/when he is traded?

This aquisition makes no sense as it is laid out.
We could trade Thome and make Dye our DH sooner than we expected.

munchman33
02-03-2009, 06:37 PM
Hmmm. Why would:

1. The White Sox sign Abreu for a year when they have Dye for a year?

2. Who would trade for Dye at 11.5 million, give up the players the White Sox want, when they could sign Big Bobby for less or comparable and give up no picks or players?

3. Why would the White Sox sign Big Bobby for eight million when they would probably have to pay some of Dye's salary if/when he is traded?

This aquisition makes no sense as it is laid out.

Some teams have a specific need for a right-handed power bat in the outfield. The dodgers come to mind.

nodiggity59
02-03-2009, 06:46 PM
Another factor here is that some teams cannot sign a Dunn or an Abreu because they are not good teams.

I mean, does Bobby Abreu really want to play for the Reds? Probably not.

I would love to see a Dye + good prospect (Poreda for example) trade for Matt Kemp. It might even be possible if Manny doesn't sign there.

DSpivack
02-03-2009, 06:49 PM
Another factor here is that some teams cannot sign a Dunn or an Abreu because they are not good teams.

I mean, does Bobby Abreu really want to play for the Reds? Probably not.

I would love to see a Dye + good prospect (Poreda for example) trade for Matt Kemp. It might even be possible if Manny doesn't sign there.

Keep dreaming.

CWSpalehoseCWS
02-03-2009, 07:00 PM
Hmmm. Why would:

1. The White Sox sign Abreu for a year when they have Dye for a year?

2. Who would trade for Dye at 11.5 million, give up the players the White Sox want, when they could sign Big Bobby for less or comparable and give up no picks or players?

3. Why would the White Sox sign Big Bobby for eight million when they would probably have to pay some of Dye's salary if/when he is traded?

This aquisition makes no sense as it is laid out.

IMO Abreu is better than Dye. I wanted the Sox to trade Dye so they could potentially sign someone like Abreu. Abreu is faster and gets on base alittle bit more than Dye and I think an Abreu/Quentin in the 3/4 spots is better than a Dye/Quentin tandum. I realize the money makes no sense, but the Sox did apparently offer him a contract, so they were at least at one time willing to do it.

cburns
02-03-2009, 07:32 PM
I would just as soon keep Dye over Abreu all things being equal. However things are not equal. If the Sox know they are going to move on from Dye at the end of this year then by all means see what you can get for Dye (maybe a prospect or with the cash saved an arm of some sort). Then get some picks the next year by not resigning Abreu.

Having said that, I would rather see Quentin start the year in right and Dye/Abreu in left.

WHILEPITCH
02-03-2009, 07:55 PM
does all the CQ love cloud what we should really be thinking of him defensively?

oeo
02-03-2009, 08:00 PM
does all the CQ love cloud what we should really be thinking of him defensively?

Quentin always played RF until he came here, and was always scouted as a good defender. It's not like he was terrible in LF, he just wasn't particularly good and looked shaky at times.

russ99
02-03-2009, 08:27 PM
IMO Abreu is better than Dye. I wanted the Sox to trade Dye so they could potentially sign someone like Abreu. Abreu is faster and gets on base alittle bit more than Dye and I think an Abreu/Quentin in the 3/4 spots is better than a Dye/Quentin tandum. I realize the money makes no sense, but the Sox did apparently offer him a contract, so they were at least at one time willing to do it.

I don't think Abreu's better than Dye, they're just different.

Dye's a prototypical slugger with a solid average, and very steady. Abreu's got decent speed, hits for contact and has a bit of gap power, but won't put up nearly as much overall production as Dye.

Defensively, they're both getting older, so I'll give that a push. Despite outward appearances, Dye's not a bad fielder, he gets to a lot of balls. Plus he's got a great arm. Not sure if Quentin would be as good in RF if Jermaine were dealt.

Not sure if I'm for this, it would have to depend on the return, which better be a whole lot more than Homer Bailey.

Abreu would be a good high-order hitter (I'd slot him 2 or 3) but to deal the most steady and productive of the big 3 sluggers would really hurt the lineup, and put even more pressure on Thome and Konerko to bounce back, which they don't need. Maybe KW thinks Viciedo can replace him eventually...

One thing, JD's gotta be steamed about this leak after the love-fest this weekend.

thomas35forever
02-03-2009, 08:38 PM
According to this, negotiations between the sides have stalled.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3881911

Lip Man 1
02-03-2009, 08:47 PM
According to sources the Sox might want to get him AND a pitcher for the rotation for the 11 million or so owed Dye.

That means they would have to deal JD and the other club would have to take his entire salary since that's the only way the Sox could get Bobby AND a rotation pitcher. (8+3 = 11 million, JD salary)

Lip

Craig Grebeck
02-03-2009, 08:51 PM
I don't think Abreu's better than Dye, they're just different.

Dye's a prototypical slugger with a solid average, and very steady. Abreu's got decent speed, hits for contact and has a bit of gap power, but won't put up nearly as much overall production as Dye.

Defensively, they're both getting older, so I'll give that a push. Despite outward appearances, Dye's not a bad fielder, he gets to a lot of balls. Plus he's got a great arm. Not sure if Quentin would be as good in RF if Jermaine were dealt.

Not sure if I'm for this, it would have to depend on the return, which better be a whole lot more than Homer Bailey.

Abreu would be a good high-order hitter (I'd slot him 2 or 3) but to deal the most steady and productive of the big 3 sluggers would really hurt the lineup, and put even more pressure on Thome and Konerko to bounce back, which they don't need. Maybe KW thinks Viciedo can replace him eventually...

One thing, JD's gotta be steamed about this leak after the love-fest this weekend.
Well, I think it is a stretch to say Abreu "won't put up nearly as much overall production as Dye." It depends on what you fancy: OBP or SLG. Abreu is OBP heavy, Dye is SLG heavy.

I'm still trying to figure out where this tripe about Thome having a poor season is coming from.

DumpJerry
02-03-2009, 09:05 PM
According to this, negotiations between the sides have stalled.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3881911
According to the report on Channel 5 tonight, there never were any negotiations to begin with. The entire thing today was a 100% false rumor.

russ99
02-03-2009, 09:05 PM
Well, I think it is a stretch to say Abreu "won't put up nearly as much overall production as Dye." It depends on what you fancy: OBP or SLG. Abreu is OBP heavy, Dye is SLG heavy.

I'm still trying to figure out where this tripe about Thome having a poor season is coming from.

Well, I'm more into overall runs produced, and Dye wins that one...

Thome's not had a poor season, at least on the HR front, but his K's are way up, and his average way down. So there's some concern that his skills are diminishing quicker than we'd like. I think both him and Paul have something to prove this year, so I'm expecting a bump from both over last year. But I'm not sure if losing Dye in the lineup would help either of them, especially mentally.

Craig Grebeck
02-03-2009, 09:08 PM
Well, I'm more into overall runs produced, and Dye wins that one...

They were roughly equal in runs created per game last season. Look at Baseball Reference for a definition. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/bat_glossary.shtml#RCpG)

champagne030
02-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Not sure if I'm for this, it would have to depend on the return, which better be a whole lot more than Homer Bailey.



We're rebuilding. I'd trade Dye ($11M) for Abreu ($8M) and Bailey (minimum) in a second. The upside of Bailey makes Marquez look like Josh Fogg.

Rdy2PlayBall
02-03-2009, 10:42 PM
The thing is, we are going young, Abreu isn't young, but he is a replacement for Dye that fits the team a little better, and whoever we can get for Dye will probably be younger than Dye, hard to see how they possibly couldn't. This can shape the team better for the future (make the team a whole lot better in 09').

I like Dye as much as the next guy (or gal, w/e), but this might be good for the Sox.

SoxGirl4Life
02-03-2009, 10:47 PM
The thing is, we are going young, Abreu isn't young, but he is a replacement for Dye that fits the team a little better, and whoever we can get for Dye will probably be younger than Dye, hard to see how they possibly couldn't. This can shape the team better for the future (make the team a whole lot better in 09').

I like Dye as much as the next guy (or gal, w/e), but this might be good for the Sox.


Its dead. For now.

Rdy2PlayBall
02-03-2009, 11:15 PM
Its dead. For now.I don't ever find a good thread until it's basically dead. :(:

DSpivack
02-03-2009, 11:16 PM
We're rebuilding. I'd trade Dye ($11M) for Abreu ($8M) and Bailey (minimum) in a second. The upside of Bailey makes Marquez look like Josh Fogg.

But why would the Reds do that deal? Why wouldn't they just sign Abreu without giving up on Bailey?

That is the trouble I have seeing Dye traded. For this market, he's expensive, especially with a cheaper, similar option in Abreu available.

WhiteSoxFan84
02-03-2009, 11:36 PM
According to sources the Sox might want to get him AND a pitcher for the rotation for the 11 million or so owed Dye.

That means they would have to deal JD and the other club would have to take his entire salary since that's the only way the Sox could get Bobby AND a rotation pitcher. (8+3 = 11 million, JD salary)

Lip

That's actually $12.5 mill
He's owed $11.5 mill for his services in 2009 and there is a $12 mill mutual option for 2010 with a $1 mill buyout which the White Sox would definitely exercise. So I'm sure Kenny and Jerry see Dye as being owed $11.5 mill in 2009 and $1 mill in 2010.

DirtySox
02-04-2009, 12:56 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-04-white-sox-chicagofeb04,0,6060716.story

An updated take on the speculation.

sullythered
02-04-2009, 03:01 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-04-white-sox-chicagofeb04,0,6060716.story

An updated take on the speculation.
The article says that the stats may favor the "younger" player.

Dye and Abreu were born less than three months apart.:scratch:

Lillian
02-04-2009, 04:27 AM
Why not offer Abreu one year at $10 million, or two years at $19 million?
Thatīs still less than Dye would cost them over the next two years, if they pick up his option.
The Sox will need a left handed bat to replace Thome in 2010.

This team is really short on left handed power, as I said earlier. Even the younger power hitting prospects like Viciedo and Flowers are right handed.
Brandon Allen is the only exception.

Thome is the only potent left handed bat in the current starting lineup, and he is probably gone after this year. Moreover, Thome is a pretty big injury risk at this point.

It shouldn't be that hard to get at least a young, inexpensive pitching prospect in a trade for Dye, and that would make this work. Dye for a pitching prospect and Abreu, and a slight savings in payroll.

Another intriguing possibility with Abreu is the thought of him leading off. If no one else fills that role, he could move into that spot and provide the high OBP with some speed that is currently missing at lead off.
I wouldn't mind a lineup like the following, would you?

LF Abreu
2B Getz
RF Quentin
DH Thome
1B Konerko
C A. J.
SS TCM
3B Fields
CF Anderson

That is a pretty good speed and base running line up. Now you only have Thome and Konerko to clog the bases. Even A.J. is a pretty good base runner, and is running better since he lost weight. There still wouldn't be any big base stealing threat, but if Getz is as good as advertised at moving the runners over, this projected line up would give Ozzie more of what he wants. If either Owens or Lillibridge win a starting position, and fill the lead off role, then you could move Abreu to the middle of the order.
The power is still significant as it would be reasonable to expect around 30 to 35 homers from guys like Quentin, Thome and Konerko; and 20 to 25 from Fields, Abreu and Alexei.
Six power bats plus whatever homers you get from A.J. and Anderson would certainly be enough in that department.
Getz would be the only guy in the line up who wouldn't be a home run threat.

Region Rat
02-04-2009, 04:34 AM
According to the Eastcoast Sports Promotion Network, talks between the Sox and Bobby have stalled.

Frater Perdurabo
02-04-2009, 06:54 AM
I haven't read every post in this thread, but one aspect that I have not yet seen mentioned is that Dye would become a 10-5 player if he stays with the Sox this year and if his 2010 option is exercised.

If the Sox signed Abreu and traded Dye, that would take them off the hook of a potential 10-5 situation in 2010.

If Abreu was signed to a $8 million, 1 year deal, the Sox could offer Abreu arbitration after 2009. If he accepts, he won't be astronomically more than $8 million, and he also can be traded during 2010. If he declines arbitration and signs elsewhere, the Sox will get draft pick compensation.

Financially, Abreu gives the Sox more flexibilty than Dye.

Sargeant79
02-04-2009, 07:17 AM
I haven't read every post in this thread, but one aspect that I have not yet seen mentioned is that Dye would become a 10-5 player if he stays with the Sox this year and if his 2010 option is exercised.

If the Sox signed Abreu and traded Dye, that would take them off the hook of a potential 10-5 situation in 2010.

If Abreu was signed to a $8 million, 1 year deal, the Sox could offer Abreu arbitration after 2009. If he accepts, he won't be astronomically more than $8 million, and he also can be traded during 2010. If he declines arbitration and signs elsewhere, the Sox will get draft pick compensation.

Financially, Abreu gives the Sox more flexibilty than Dye.

I agree with your point, but I don't see the White Sox exercising Dye's option even if he has a monster year.

turners56
02-04-2009, 08:14 AM
According to the Eastcoast Sports Promotion Network, talks between the Sox and Bobby have stalled.

Like that wasn't expected...

1 year and $8 million for Abreu isn't enough. He was asking for $15 million before. I doubt he's willing to take that big of a paycut. Other teams like the Mets who were looking at him will probably offer him $10-12 million.

Thome25
02-04-2009, 08:22 AM
Wednesday....Wednesday......Wednesday.......can't wait to see what happens!!!

Abreu fits in the mold of veteran, low-risk/high reward outfielders that the White Sox have acquired over the years.

Ellis Burks, Darrin Jackson, Mike Devereaux, Danny Tartabull, Tony Phillips, Carl Everett, and Jermaine Dye

All of these guys were veteran outfielders who where at the midpoint or towards the end of their careers. The White Sox acquired these guys on the cheap which was low risk and were hoping for a high reward with each one of them.

Abreu fits perfectly as one of these types of guys. I think the Sox should go for it.....Abreu rakes at The Cell.

Craig Grebeck
02-04-2009, 09:00 AM
Abreu fits perfectly as one of these types of guys. I think the Sox should go for it.....Abreu rakes at The Cell.
Against Sox pitching.

Thome25
02-04-2009, 09:05 AM
Against Sox pitching.

You're right, it may be the Sox pitchers that are the factor in his success at the Cell. But, the Sox have had some pretty good pitchers the last couple of years so, I'm sure it's no coincidence that the Cell is a hitter's paradise as well. The Cell as a launching pad probably factors into his success in Chicago.

cards press box
02-04-2009, 09:21 AM
I haven't read every post in this thread, but one aspect that I have not yet seen mentioned is that Dye would become a 10-5 player if he stays with the Sox this year and if his 2010 option is exercised.

If the Sox signed Abreu and traded Dye, that would take them off the hook of a potential 10-5 situation in 2010.

If Abreu was signed to a $8 million, 1 year deal, the Sox could offer Abreu arbitration after 2009. If he accepts, he won't be astronomically more than $8 million, and he also can be traded during 2010. If he declines arbitration and signs elsewhere, the Sox will get draft pick compensation.

Financially, Abreu gives the Sox more flexibilty than Dye.

Absolutely correct plus a trade of Dye could net a player(s) who would fill a hole and/or add depth.

esbrechtel
02-04-2009, 09:57 AM
You can tell there haven't been too many rumors this year because this thread has generated 200 posts.....

gives me the feeling that many people thought "Finally something interesting to talk about this offseason!"

LoveYourSuit
02-04-2009, 10:38 AM
You can tell there haven't been too many rumors this year because this thread has generated 200 posts.....

gives me the feeling that many people thought "Finally something interesting to talk about this offseason!"


It has been a very sluggish offseason indeed.

Kenny has spoiled us by being so active and aggresive in the past.

Rohan
02-04-2009, 10:57 AM
It has been a very sluggish offseason indeed.

Kenny has spoiled us by being so active and aggresive in the past.

All this speculation has hurt my academic life.

Metalthrasher442
02-04-2009, 10:59 AM
All this speculation has hurt my academic life.

Haha I'm in my graphic arts class as we speak.

But come on not much speculation has come around lately, and especially because Abreu isn't that bad of a player, I have been coming back to this thread to see if it anything has happened yet. Plus this is Wed. =]

Rohan
02-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Haha I'm in my graphic arts class as we speak.

But come on not much speculation has come around lately, and especially because Abreu isn't that bad of a player, I have been coming back to this thread to see if it anything has happened yet. Plus this is Wed. =]

Sorry i must be missing something. What's the significance of it being Wednesday?

Marqhead
02-04-2009, 11:05 AM
Sorry i must be missing something. What's the significance of it being Wednesday?

Wednesday means it's almost thursday. Thursday means it almost friday, and well you know. Friday.

Metalthrasher442
02-04-2009, 11:07 AM
Sorry i must be missing something. What's the significance of it being Wednesday?

Oh Williams always finalizes moves on Wed.

Sargeant79
02-04-2009, 11:16 AM
Sorry i must be missing something. What's the significance of it being Wednesday?

In the 2005-2006 offseason, it seemed like just about every move Williams made came out on a Wednesday, leading to the "White Sox Wednesday" name around these parts. I think the Rowand-Thome trade happened on Wednesday, as did the Javier Vazquez acquisition and a couple more.

oeo
02-04-2009, 12:08 PM
You can tell there haven't been too many rumors this year because this thread has generated 200 posts.....

gives me the feeling that many people thought "Finally something interesting to talk about this offseason!"

There have been plenty of rumors. Since after the Winter Meetings, it has been slow, but that's the case for every team, every year.

mantis1212
02-04-2009, 12:26 PM
In the 2005-2006 offseason, it seemed like just about every move Williams made came out on a Wednesday, leading to the "White Sox Wednesday" name around these parts. I think the Rowand-Thome trade happened on Wednesday, as did the Javier Vazquez acquisition and a couple more.


...not to mention the WS clincher

soxinem1
02-04-2009, 12:34 PM
We're rebuilding. I'd trade Dye ($11M) for Abreu ($8M) and Bailey (minimum) in a second. The upside of Bailey makes Marquez look like Josh Fogg.

The White Sox are not rebuilding. They are 'infusing' younger players into the big-league team.

Rebuilding is tearing it up and starting from scratch. Like the 1988 White Sox, who dumped 700 innings of starting pitching, and had an Opening Day lineup of only a few players left from the year before.

The 1998 White Sox were a rebuild project. Only two holdovers in the starting rotation from 1997 were left. A new closer, most of the bullpen, SS, 1B, RF, and C were also changed.

We like to knock BOS on this board, but we should give credit where it is due. Every year they break in at least one rookie in the lineup, bullpen, and rotation.

When you do that properly, rebuilding is not necessary.

Sure, we are going to have some changes at 3B, SS, and 2B this year, but Fields and Ramirez have nearly a full season under their belts.

Sargeant79
02-04-2009, 12:36 PM
...not to mention the WS clincher

Oddly enough, I didn't remember the day of the week, only that it was a weeknight. But it's funny...I frequently forget birthdays of friends and family members, and have never been able to remember an anniversary in my life. But I can tell you that October 26th 2005 was the first day that all became right in the world.

CashMan
02-04-2009, 04:16 PM
The White Sox are not rebuilding. They are 'infusing' younger players into the big-league team.

Rebuilding is tearing it up and starting from scratch. Like the 1988 White Sox, who dumped 700 innings of starting pitching, and had an Opening Day lineup of only a few players left from the year before.

The 1998 White Sox were a rebuild project. Only two holdovers in the starting rotation from 1997 were left. A new closer, most of the bullpen, SS, 1B, RF, and C were also changed.

We like to knock BOS on this board, but we should give credit where it is due. Every year they break in at least one rookie in the lineup, bullpen, and rotation.

When you do that properly, rebuilding is not necessary.

Sure, we are going to have some changes at 3B, SS, and 2B this year, but Fields and Ramirez have nearly a full season under their belts.

Boston is just insane with the drafting. I credit Theo for all of it, him going to Red Sox brass and telling them he didn't wanna be like the yanks and buy a new team all the time, rather to draft players and develop them.

getonbckthr
02-04-2009, 04:22 PM
Boston is just insane with the drafting. I credit Theo for all of it, him going to Red Sox brass and telling them he didn't wanna be like the yanks and buy a new team all the time, rather to draft players and develop them.
It helps when teams don't draft certain guys because they feel they wont sign them.

Flight #24
02-04-2009, 05:06 PM
According to sources the Sox might want to get him AND a pitcher for the rotation for the 11 million or so owed Dye.

That means they would have to deal JD and the other club would have to take his entire salary since that's the only way the Sox could get Bobby AND a rotation pitcher. (8+3 = 11 million, JD salary)

Lip

Not necessarily, you trade Dye+4.5M for Bailey and sign Abreu at 8 and there's your SP+OF at the same cost.

And as for how you could structure a multi-year deal that gives Abreu some protection but still an out: 1-yr/$8M with a player option for another $8M and a $2M team buyout. If the market's "back" for Bobby, he declines the option. Otherwise he gets another $8 or can go back on the market and take a 1-yr $6M deal (plus the $2M buyout from the Sox). Payroll goes up a whopping $2M (and I bet they could find a way to offset that for 2010).

LoveYourSuit
02-04-2009, 05:21 PM
Not necessarily, you trade Dye+4.5M for Bailey and sign Abreu at 8 and there's your SP+OF at the same cost.

And as for how you could structure a multi-year deal that gives Abreu some protection but still an out: 1-yr/$8M with a player option for another $8M and a $2M team buyout. If the market's "back" for Bobby, he declines the option. Otherwise he gets another $8 or can go back on the market and take a 1-yr $6M deal (plus the $2M buyout from the Sox). Payroll goes up a whopping $2M (and I bet they could find a way to offset that for 2010).

The more and more I read into it, I don't think there is much of a trade market for a guy like Dye right now.

And if there is a soft market for Dye, how many teams you think are blowing up Kenny's phone for Thome or Konerko ..... NONE.

voodoochile
02-04-2009, 05:26 PM
Boston is just insane with the drafting. I credit Theo for all of it, him going to Red Sox brass and telling them he didn't wanna be like the yanks and buy a new team all the time, rather to draft players and develop them.

LOL...

When the BoSox won their first WS, they had two (count them 2) players on the team that came up through their farm system. Afterward they were able to charge so much damned money to see the team play live that it no longer mattered. Of course they still have the second highest payroll in baseball (maybe third after Detroit went nuts) and now they've lost Manny. If they can actually grow a good enough pitching staff to win the WS, more power too them, but somehow I doubt it...

Metalthrasher442
02-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Well I guess we have all come to the conclusion that this isn't happening.

Rohan
02-08-2009, 10:05 AM
He isn't signed yet so it's still possible. There's just no trade in place for dye yet.

russ99
02-08-2009, 01:03 PM
Not necessarily, you trade Dye+4.5M for Bailey and sign Abreu at 8 and there's your SP+OF at the same cost.


I wouldn't consider Bailey "your SP" by any stretch of the imagination. I have more faith that Colon can put in a full season and Richard/Marquez/Broadway can solidify the starting spot than that Homer Bailey should sniff the big leagues again anytime soon.

To me, he's the pitching equivalent of Borchard. All the talent and potential in the world, but just can't mentally hack it at the big league level. If the Sox somehow acquire him (hopefully not for Dye), I'd think he'd go to AA to re-build his career. If the Reds keep him, I'd think they should do the same. And no, this wouldn't just be a mechanical correction like Thornton, i.e. "Coop can fix him".

Lip Man 1
02-11-2009, 12:02 AM
According to ESPN.com Bobby is about to sign a one year, eight million dollar deal with the Angels.

Lip

JermaineDye05
02-11-2009, 12:10 AM
According to ESPN.com Bobby is about to sign a one year, eight million dollar deal with the Angels.

Lip

*** is with the angels swooping in and taking our players?!?

In all seriousness I'm glad. I prefer Dye over Abreu.

LoveYourSuit
02-11-2009, 12:15 AM
*** is with the angels swooping in and taking our players?!?

In all seriousness I'm glad. I prefer Dye over Abreu.


I agree.

For the sake of protecting our #1 asset in the line-up in CQ, Dye is the best option we have. Moving Dye would mean Paulie or Thome would hit behind CQ and that's not good.

CQ and Dye is as good a 1-2 punch in the game today.

JermaineDye05
02-11-2009, 12:16 AM
I agree.

For the sake of protecting our #1 asset in the line-up in CQ, Dye is the best option we have. Moving Dye would mean Paulie or Thome would hit behind CQ and that's not good.

CQ and Dye is as good a 1-2 punch in the game today.

And for the sake of protecting my username!!

DSpivack
02-11-2009, 12:17 AM
According to ESPN.com Bobby is about to sign a one year, eight million dollar deal with the Angels.

Lip

:scratch:

They already have too many OFs.

oeo
02-11-2009, 12:22 AM
*** is with the angels swooping in and taking our players?!?

In all seriousness I'm glad. I prefer Dye over Abreu.

It wasn't Dye vs. Abreu, it was Dye vs. Abreu, whatever we got for Dye, and whatever we got with the money saved.

Probably something that intrigued Kenny, but wasn't get any offers he liked for Dye.

Lillian
02-11-2009, 05:00 AM
We better all hope that Thome stays healthy and has a good year.
Without him the Sox wonīt have a single left handed threat in the line up.
A.J. is the only other left handed hitter, and heīs not going to scare anyone. If Thome went down, Betemit becomes your new D.H. vs. right handers. How does that make you feel?

Nevertheless, I do love Dye, and he is the best hitter the Sox have after Quentin. Maybe Kenny isnīt done yet.

cards press box
02-11-2009, 09:31 AM
It wasn't Dye vs. Abreu, it was Dye vs. Abreu, whatever we got for Dye, and whatever we got with the money saved.

Probably something that intrigued Kenny, but wasn't get any offers he liked for Dye.

That is exactly right. From the Angels' point of view, they probably concluded that they would rather just sign Abreu than trade anyone for Dye.

Thome25
02-11-2009, 09:44 AM
Abreu just signed with the Angels....it's in talking baseball.:angry:

doublem23
02-11-2009, 10:39 AM
And thus ends the extravaganza.

:whiner: