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View Full Version : Cora says Fields will shock the organization


Sockinchisox
01-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Says Fields has been moving better by far than he's ever moved.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1400412,CST-SPT-soxnt28.article

The Trib has a more in-depth article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-28-white-sox-bits-chicagojan28,0,6684937.story

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 10:38 AM
Says Fields has been moving better by far than he's ever moved.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/1400412,CST-SPT-soxnt28.article

The Trib has a more in-depth article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-28-white-sox-bits-chicagojan28,0,6684937.story

Who would have thought you could go from a hack defensively to shocking the organization in 2 weekends. I'll believe it when I see it. I remember back in the day when Jorge Orta was supposed to have improved defensively.

Hitmen77
01-28-2009, 10:43 AM
Are we going to be shocked by his strikeout rate?

LoveYourSuit
01-28-2009, 10:49 AM
Are we going to be shocked by his strikeout rate?


LOL!

I was going to say that too.

hi im skot
01-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Are we going to be shocked by his strikeout rate?

LOL!

I was going to say that too.

A swing and a miss...

DSpivack
01-28-2009, 11:06 AM
He has a tazer for everyone who works for the Sox?

Luke
01-28-2009, 11:08 AM
I have an honest question about this;

Is it really possible for someone like Fields to show any significant improvement at this stage? If he's gone through HS ball, college ball, rookie ball, minor league ball, and the bigs, how can he possibly have deficiencies? Taking it a step further, how can he have deficiencies that can be remedied in two weekends?

Did his coaches at lower levels just not care about his defense because he could mash?

khan
01-28-2009, 11:17 AM
I have an honest question about this;
OK, I'll play along.

Is it really possible for someone like Fields to show any significant improvement at this stage?
I don't think so.

If he's gone through HS ball, college ball, rookie ball, minor league ball, and the bigs, how can he possibly have deficiencies?
Because he probably doesn't have a high enough level of ability to play baseball.

Taking it a step further, how can he have deficiencies that can be remedied in two weekends?
I don't think so, either.

Did his coaches at lower levels just not care about his defense because he could mash?
Well that, and he's [yet another] former football playing stiff through whom KW can live his failed baseball dreams vicariously.

Maybe Cora means we'll be shocked at how many strikeouts and popups Fields will have this year.

Maybe Cora means we'll be shocked at how bad Fields will be a 3rd base.

I'd LOVE to be wrong about Fields. I will cheer him, as I do EVERY White Sox player. But I don't see this kid making any improvement. I think he will remain a K or an error waiting to happen. But again, I hope I'm wrong.

Craig Grebeck
01-28-2009, 11:19 AM
At the very least, it's encouraging that his supposedly better defense is a result of a remedied knee. That's more plausible than Josh realizing how to play defense.

CashMan
01-28-2009, 11:21 AM
Are we going to be shocked by his strikeout rate?


Were you shocked by Juan "I swing at every pitch" Uribe's BA and SO totals?

veeter
01-28-2009, 11:47 AM
I always find it funny, when guys are supposedly better at this or that, when they haven't proven it in a real game. When he starts making game saving plays, down the line, in the eighth inning of a real game, then I'll be shocked.

Hitmen77
01-28-2009, 12:13 PM
He has a tazer for everyone who works for the Sox?

.....or perhaps he likes to shuffle his feet on carpeting during the winter.

DSpivack
01-28-2009, 12:15 PM
.....or perhaps he likes to shuffle his feet on carpeting during the winter.

Or maybe he knows everyone's allergies and will send them into anaphylactic shock?

thomas35forever
01-28-2009, 12:17 PM
I hope Fields does shock everyone, but I'm not sure how good Cora is at evaluating talent. I only hope he does a better job playing third base than Cora did coaching it. I still can't forget about the time he sent Iguchi to try and take out John Buck.

sunofgold
01-28-2009, 12:36 PM
Right now...minimum requirements for him at third base would to hit like he can hit (2007...less SO would be nice though) and play average defense. Just make the routine plays. Would love though for him to be above average.

If Fields can hold down third base, then WHITE SOX can movie Viciedo to right or left field. That would be cool. Hope so.

whitesox901
01-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Im glad for Josh, good for him

thedudeabides
01-28-2009, 12:54 PM
I have an honest question about this;

Is it really possible for someone like Fields to show any significant improvement at this stage? If he's gone through HS ball, college ball, rookie ball, minor league ball, and the bigs, how can he possibly have deficiencies? Taking it a step further, how can he have deficiencies that can be remedied in two weekends?

Did his coaches at lower levels just not care about his defense because he could mash?

Why is it so hard for people to believe you can't improve at the major league level?

His defense and strike out rate weren't good, but with better coaching and more experience at the highest level why can't he improve?

It seems most people at WSI tend to take whatever rookies or inexperienced players have done and think that's their ceiling. Most players get better with time.

I'm glad to hear he has dedicated himself to getting better defensively and seems hungry to win the starting 3b job. :gulp:

hi im skot
01-28-2009, 12:56 PM
Why is it so hard for people to believe you can't improve at the major league level?

His defense and strike out rate weren't good, but with better coaching and more experience at the highest level why can't he improve?

It seems most people at WSI tend to take whatever rookies or inexperienced players have done and think that's their ceiling. Most players get better with time.

I'm glad to hear he has dedicated himself to getting better defensively and seems hungry to win the starting 3b job. :gulp:

Ventura is infamous for struggling offensively upon his call-up, but wasn't he pretty questionable defensively as well?

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Ventura is infamous for struggling offensively upon his call-up, but wasn't he pretty questionable defensively as well?

So did Tim Hulett and Kevin Bell.

NardiWasHere
01-28-2009, 01:06 PM
Ventura is infamous for struggling offensively upon his call-up, but wasn't he pretty questionable defensively as well?

Also, people seem to forget that Joe Crede wasn't that good defensively when he was brought up.

Daver
01-28-2009, 01:12 PM
They can teach reaction time and agility now?

DumpJerry
01-28-2009, 01:12 PM
I hope Fields does shock everyone, but I'm not sure how good Cora is at evaluating talent. I only hope he does a better job playing third base than Cora did coaching it. I still can't forget about the time he sent Iguchi to try and take out John Buck.
Being the Third Base Coach and playing Third Base are two completely different skill sets. There is no significant correlation between the two jobs.

ode to veeck
01-28-2009, 01:17 PM
Credibillity of Cora's opinions just dropped a few notches

34 Inch Stick
01-28-2009, 01:22 PM
I seem to recall a replica of this story at about the same time last year.

skobabe8
01-28-2009, 01:23 PM
They can teach reaction time and agility now?

Teach? No.
Improve? I would hope so.

hi im skot
01-28-2009, 01:24 PM
So did Tim Hulett and Kevin Bell.

Neither one of those guys had numbers remotely close to what Fields put up his rookie year.

Sounds like apples and oranges to me.

LITTLE NELL
01-28-2009, 01:25 PM
I for one believe that with hard work a player can improve his fielding skills. Was't PK a bit of an iron glove when we picked him up. I'm not saying that Fields will become a gold glove winner but being the athlete that he is I'm sure he will get the job done. I'm pulling like hell for him because it looks like he's all we got at this point.

34 Inch Stick
01-28-2009, 01:27 PM
At the very least, he has shown himself to be a willing learner. I'm hoping he proves himself to be an able learner.

DSpivack
01-28-2009, 01:29 PM
Being the Third Base Coach and playing Third Base are two completely different skill sets. There is no significant correlation between the two jobs.

They are in rather close proximity to one another.

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 01:30 PM
Neither one of those guys had numbers remotely close to what Fields put up his rookie year.

Sounds like apples and oranges to me.
Comparing Fields to Ventura is apples and oranges as well.

CashMan
01-28-2009, 01:30 PM
They can teach reaction time and agility now?


*Cough* HGH *Cough*

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 01:30 PM
I for one believe that with hard work a player can improve his fielding skills. Was't PK a bit of an iron glove when we picked him up. I'm not saying that Fields will become a gold glove winner but being the athlete that he is I'm sure he will get the job done. I'm pulling like hell for him because it looks like he's all we got at this point.
Konerko was a C who moved to 3rd then to first.

DumpJerry
01-28-2009, 01:31 PM
They are in rather close proximity to one another.
...and your point is? Using this logic, catchers should all be .800+ hitters since they are within a couple of feet of the hitters all game long.

Or are you implying teal?

Hitmen77
01-28-2009, 01:32 PM
Or maybe he knows everyone's allergies and will send them into anaphylactic shock?

....or perhaps he will reveal some dark and disturbing skeleton in his closet?

DumpJerry
01-28-2009, 01:33 PM
I"m still wondering what is a "tazer."

DSpivack
01-28-2009, 01:37 PM
...and your point is? Using this logic, catchers should all be .800+ hitters since they are within a couple of feet of the hitters all game long.

Or are you implying teal?

:wink:

....or perhaps he will reveal some dark and disturbing skeleton in his closet?

Yup. Something like Juan Uribe's sheer insanity, but worse.

I"m still wondering what is a "tazer."

Taser. Sorry.

soxinem1
01-28-2009, 01:39 PM
I have an honest question about this;

Is it really possible for someone like Fields to show any significant improvement at this stage? If he's gone through HS ball, college ball, rookie ball, minor league ball, and the bigs, how can he possibly have deficiencies? Taking it a step further, how can he have deficiencies that can be remedied in two weekends?

Did his coaches at lower levels just not care about his defense because he could mash?

I remember when the White Sox drafted a 3B back in the late 80's who most scouts believed would wind up at 1B because his footwork, range, and arm were all questionable, and that he was very slow. Many of them also said his power numbers were inflated by aluminum bats. He also made 25 errors his rookie year.

His name? Multi-GG Winner Robin Ventura.

I also remember another 3B the White Sox drafted in later rounds in the 90's who was judged to be way too slow, had a heavy glove and miffed too many grounders, had problems moving left or right, and would have to hit to remain a 3B.

His name? Joe Crede.

Now personally, I did not think Fields looked all that bad when he first came up. He looked no worse than Ventura or Crede at the same points in their careers.

He is actually judged to have pretty decent foot-speed for a 3B, something neither Ventura nor Crede ever possessed.

So frankly, without ever having had the chance to play on MLB turf consistently, how can anyone judge him just yet?

And even if he K's 140 times, if he hits 30+ HR's, why is it not acceptable for him but for a DH like Jim Thome?

Personally, since it has been a L-O-O-N-G time since we have had a position player come out of our farm system and make an impact, the troops should rally around this guy, if for any reason but to stick it up Scott Boras' ass.

LITTLE NELL
01-28-2009, 01:42 PM
Konerko was a C who moved to 3rd then to first.
According to Baseball Reference PK has never played C in the Majors and played all of 8 games at 3B for the Sox. He made himself with hard work into a pretty good first baseman with the glove. I think Fields can do the same at 3B.

JB98
01-28-2009, 01:43 PM
I think Fields has always suffered from a lack of good instincts at third. He just doesn't read the ball off the bat well. A good first step is so important at third base. That's what made Ventura a great defender.

Now, I do think instincts can improve through experience playing the position. I've always suspected that Fields just hasn't worked on his defense enough. Some of that probably has to due with him playing football in college instead of concentrating on baseball year-round. To this point in his career, his power hitting has carried him. Maybe he finally understands that he needs to expand his game if he wants to stick in the majors for the long term.

Like several others here, I'm skeptical. But Fields' defense is one of the things I'm going to be watching when I tune in the spring training games. I try to keep an open mind.

esbrechtel
01-28-2009, 01:45 PM
Also, people seem to forget that Joe Crede wasn't that good defensively when he was brought up.

Are you kidding? The ONLY reason he was in the lineup was because he was pretty solid defensively.....

I am not a fan of Fielding Percentage but....
Crede
2000-.933 (6 games) (not great but decent)
2001-1.000 (15 games)
2002-.938 (53 games)
2003-.964 (151 games)
2004-.965 (144 games)
2005-.971 (130 games) Led AL 3rd basemen

Fields-
2007-.958 (comparable to Joe)
2008-.917 (not good)

thedudeabides
01-28-2009, 01:48 PM
They can teach reaction time and agility now?

With coaching and repetition you can absolutely improve agility and reaction time. You can also teach better footwork, positioning, and softer hands. Instincts with some people come with more experience.

I have no idea if any of this will happen with Josh, but it's hilarious to me when people think for some reason you can't improve at the big league level.

soxinem1
01-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Are you kidding? The ONLY reason he was in the lineup was because he was pretty solid defensively.....

I am not a fan of Fielding Percentage but....
Crede
2000-.933 (6 games) (not great but decent)
2001-1.000 (15 games)
2002-.938 (53 games)
2003-.964 (151 games)
2004-.965 (144 games)
2005-.971 (130 games) Led AL 3rd basemen

Fields-
2007-.958 (comparable to Joe)
2008-.917 (not good)

Okay, you included the small games samples for Crede, but failed to note Fields played all of, what, ten games last year at 3B (and was hurt to boot)?

Plus, Crede was not solid at 3B in 2008 at all from May until he was shut down, which you left out of your calculation.

UofCSoxFan
01-28-2009, 01:51 PM
While I certainly remain skeptical, I may not be as ready to dismiss Fields' progress as some.

First of all, while reaction time cannot be taught it certainly can be improved. Moreover, if Cora has improved Fields' footwork at third, which typically is one or two steps either way for a third basemen, that could potentially do wonders for his overall performance. I'm speaking in particular to Fields since to me many of his errors resulted from being in poor fielding position, not a lack of hand-eye-coordination once he was in good fielding position.

I think sometimes we forget that not all major leagures have impecable fundamentals. Most have good fundamentals coupled with amazing talent but some have some much talent that they can get by with poor footwork or other difficiences. Fields was a part time baseball player until he was 22 so while he may be somewhat old by "prospect" standards, I still think he has a learning curve.

Moreover, as someone that played third in college and played in collegiate summer wood bat leagues, there is a huge difference in the way a ground ball bounces coming of an aluminum bat vs. a wood bat...so that takes some adjustment too.

Also, to reiterate the point made by NardyWasHere, Crede was average at best at third when he came up.

Fields also was coming off a knee injury last year that likely hampered his range and quickness at third.

To be clear, I doubt Fields will be better than average AT BEST, but I just wanted to play Devil's Advocate that there may be potential for improvement.

JB98
01-28-2009, 01:51 PM
One other point I want to make: Whatever Ventura did, whatever Crede did, whatever Chris Snopek did, whatever Tim Hulett did, whatever Kevin Bell did, none of that has anything to do with Josh Fields.

We cannot predict how Fields will turn out by analyzing what we know about any of those other players.

What we do know is that Fields has not played good enough defense in the past. We also know that Fields knows he needs to improve that aspect of his game, and that he is working on it. Let's just hope that his work will pay off.

It would be huge if Josh can step up and fill the hole at 3B for this team.

hi im skot
01-28-2009, 01:55 PM
Comparing Fields to Ventura is apples and oranges as well.

Comparing Ventura's rookie season to Fields' rookie year isn't apples to apples? Two highly-touted third basemen from Oklahoma State making their debuts with the Sox?

Man, I can't win.

:shrug:

soxinem1
01-28-2009, 01:55 PM
One other point I want to make: Whatever Ventura did, whatever Crede did, whatever Chris Snopek did, whatever Tim Hulett did, whatever Kevin Bell did, none of that has anything to do with Josh Fields.

We cannot predict how Fields will turn out by analyzing what we know about any of those other players.

What we do know is that Fields has not played good enough defense in the past. We also know that Fields knows he needs to improve that aspect of his game, and that he is working on it. Let's just hope that his work will pay off.

It would be huge if Josh can step up and fill the hole at 3B for this team.

Hmmm, and using that logic, why did we have Swisher, Mackowiak, Griffey, Lofton, Carl Everett, and a host of others over the years playing out of position or past their prime in the positions thewy played because of the need to get them in the lineup, yet keep the best defensive OF on the team from developing?

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 01:57 PM
According to Baseball Reference PK has never played C in the Majors and played all of 8 games at 3B for the Sox. He made himself with hard work into a pretty good first baseman with the glove. I think Fields can do the same at 3B.

Konerko was drafted as a C and played his first couple minor league seasons as one IIRC. He then played 1B and 3B. BTW, everyone says Konerko sucked in 2008 and Fields was an awesome offensive player in 2007.
Konerko 2008 438 AB 22 HR .240 Avg. .344 OBP 80 k
Fields 2007 373 AB 23 HR .244 Avg. .308 OBP 125 k

I don't see where Konerko's 2008 is much worse,if worse, than Fields 2007.

hi im skot
01-28-2009, 02:03 PM
Konerko was drafted as a C and played his first couple minor league seasons as one IIRC. He then played 1B and 3B.

I believe you're correct. I remember seeing a basbeall card with Konerko in catcher's gear.

Daver
01-28-2009, 02:04 PM
I have no idea if any of this will happen with Josh, but it's hilarious to me when people think for some reason you can't improve at the big league level.

Just as hilarious as people thinking he is suddenly going to go from fielding with his face to being a gold glove caliber player.

doublem23
01-28-2009, 02:06 PM
Comparing Fields to Ventura is apples and oranges as well.

:rolleyes:

Robin was my favorite Sox player of all time, but come one, let's not give the guy mythic status. They're both ball players, both play third base... Hell, they even went to the same college.

thedudeabides
01-28-2009, 02:06 PM
Just as hilarious as people thinking he is suddenly going to go from fielding with his face to being a gold glove caliber player.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm glad you at least took the time to read half my post before spouting off another one liner.

doublem23
01-28-2009, 02:07 PM
Just as hilarious as people thinking he is suddenly going to go from fielding with his face to being a gold glove caliber player.

Who is saying anything about a Gold Glove? Is it that outrageous to think he could just become adequate?

I don't like defending Fields, but come on, people.

esbrechtel
01-28-2009, 02:07 PM
Okay, you included the small games samples for Crede, but failed to note Fields played all of, what, ten games last year at 3B (and was hurt to boot)?

Plus, Crede was not solid at 3B in 2008 at all from May until he was shut down, which you left out of your calculation.

The arguement was the begining of his career....we all know what he did last year....

I was just using all of Fields major league experience available...

I was just showing that Crede was fine defensively

Nellie_Fox
01-28-2009, 02:08 PM
:rolleyes:

Robin was my favorite Sox player of all time, but come one, let's not give the guy mythic status. They're both ball players, both play third base... Hell, they even went to the same college.But Ventura had already demonstrated ability at the lower levels that made his initial bad start appear to be the aberration that it was. Hell, he was named "college player of the decade."

doublem23
01-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Konerko was drafted as a C and played his first couple minor league seasons as one IIRC. He then played 1B and 3B. BTW, everyone says Konerko sucked in 2008 and Fields was an awesome offensive player in 2007.
Konerko 2008 438 AB 22 HR .240 Avg. .344 OBP 80 k
Fields 2007 373 AB 23 HR .244 Avg. .308 OBP 125 k

I don't see where Konerko's 2008 is much worse,if worse, than Fields 2007.

Paul Konerko turned it on for the last 2 months of the season. On August 1, his line was .214/.313/.349... 9 HR, 58 K in 295 AB. He was awful for the first 2/3 of the season, especially considering he's a guy that generally hits right in the middle of the lineup.

doublem23
01-28-2009, 02:12 PM
But Ventura had already demonstrated ability at the lower levels that made his initial bad start appear to be the aberration that it was. Hell, he was named "college player of the decade."

Unfortunately, I can't look up Ventura's minor league numbers, but Josh Fields' minor league (http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=4755) work isn't terrible. .275/.359/.458. :dunno:

khan
01-28-2009, 02:15 PM
And even if he K's 140 times, if he hits 30+ HR's, why is it not acceptable for him but for a DH like Jim Thome?
While we're at the "IF" game, let's throw one more into the mix:

IF Josh Fields strikes out less than 150 times, it will be a miracle.

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 02:17 PM
Paul Konerko turned it on for the last 2 months of the season. On August 1, his line was .214/.313/.349... 9 HR, 58 K in 295 AB. He was awful for the first 2/3 of the season, especially considering he's a guy that generally hits right in the middle of the lineup.
And Josh Fields turned it on the last 2 weeks of 2007. On Sept. 14 he was hitting .228 with a .283 OBP.

JB98
01-28-2009, 02:20 PM
Hmmm, and using that logic, why did we have Swisher, Mackowiak, Griffey, Lofton, Carl Everett, and a host of others over the years playing out of position or past their prime in the positions thewy played because of the need to get them in the lineup, yet keep the best defensive OF on the team from developing?

:hijacked:

Heffalump
01-28-2009, 02:21 PM
I'm not going to get into a battle with all the Negative Nancys about how Fields can't possibly materially improve his defense through health and hard work. Been there, done that.

I'm also not going to battle the similarities between Fields and Ventura/Crede in the early years of their careers. Been there, done that too.

What I will say, is that I hope Fields can make significant improvements with the glove and hit like he did in 2007. If he can, it will be a huge plus for the 2008 White Sox.

A few more weeks until 'pitchers and catchers'! I need my baseball fix!

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 02:24 PM
Unfortunately, I can't look up Ventura's minor league numbers, but Josh Fields' minor league (http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=4755) work isn't terrible. .275/.359/.458. :dunno:
Ventura played 1 season as a 21 year old in AA. He hit .278/.403/764 OPS. He only hit 3 homers in Birmingham, but you can't compare their stats because of their ages. When Ventura was Fields age, he was about to begin his 6th full season in the major leagues.

hi im skot
01-28-2009, 02:35 PM
While we're at the "IF" game, let's throw one more into the mix:

IF Josh Fields strikes out less than 150 times, it will be a miracle.

This is just plain old.

Luke
01-28-2009, 03:12 PM
Why is it so hard for people to believe you can't improve at the major league level?


I'm trying to be perfectly earnest here.

I'm not questioning that players can get better at the MLB level. I'm just a little suspicious of the claim that Fields is going to shock us, especially after two weekends of work. If he's going to shock us, then there has been some dramatic improvement, and presumably some major flaw was discovered that was holding back defense. If that's the case, why was it not discovered until age 26? Why has no one helped him with this before?

That said I'm rooting for him, I hope he has a great season and makes a solid contribution.

spawn
01-28-2009, 03:16 PM
One other point I want to make: Whatever Ventura did, whatever Crede did, whatever Chris Snopek did, whatever Tim Hulett did, whatever Kevin Bell did, none of that has anything to do with Josh Fields.

We cannot predict how Fields will turn out by analyzing what we know about any of those other players.

What we do know is that Fields has not played good enough defense in the past. We also know that Fields knows he needs to improve that aspect of his game, and that he is working on it. Let's just hope that his work will pay off.

It would be huge if Josh can step up and fill the hole at 3B for this team.
Word. It would be nice one of these days for WSI posters to actually support the players on the team who need to step up the upcoming season instead of consistently tearing them down, especially when the player in question hasn't played a full season in the majors. I know, I know...it's a pipe dream and will probably never happen. I just felt the need to say it.

hawkjt
01-28-2009, 03:23 PM
As Hawk always says...you gotta keep that fanny down to field the ball...and with the bad knee Fields could not do that...so if it is corrected, I think that alone could improve his chances of being passable at third this year. And yes, a lot of hard work this winter could help also. How good was Kevin Youklis at third? Craig Nettles made himself into a great third baseman after struggling early. The annals of baseball are rift with third baseman like Joe Torre who played catcher or other positions and made themselves good enough to get by. Joe Crede is not walking thru that door...Aramis Ramirez of the Cubs was a butcher when he got to the cubs and is now passable.
I like that Josh has confidence and that Joey is supporting that confidence. If Josh is ok in the field ,maybe he will feel better at the plate also..
We have what we have...either we bitch or we make do. lets make do.

Lip Man 1
01-28-2009, 03:27 PM
Spawn:

To be fair I'm sure there are a lot of fans who'd love to not have to be concerned about a Sox player "stepping it up" in order for the franchise to succeed. To know that the players and team are going to perform at a certain level and not have to have the number of question marks that seem to permeate this franchise every year.

That's not singling out Fields or Nix or Lillibridge or whomever it was the Sox got from the Yankees, just that philosophy in general.

Lip

soxinem1
01-28-2009, 04:31 PM
:hijacked:

No hijack. I was responding to a statement made by another poster.:smile:

oeo
01-28-2009, 04:37 PM
Fields has said himself that he never had any formal defensive training in his life. Fault the minor league system for not having him up to par by the time he got here. And hopefully that changes in the future.

Konerko05
01-28-2009, 04:41 PM
Fields has said himself that he never had any formal defensive training in his life. Fault the minor league system for not having him up to par by the time he got here. And hopefully that changes in the future.

I find it funny that after 5 years in the organization, the Sox finally realized 2 weeks of training could improve his defense enough to actually cause "shock" to people.

oeo
01-28-2009, 04:41 PM
Ventura played 1 season as a 21 year old in AA. He hit .278/.403/764 OPS. He only hit 3 homers in Birmingham, but you can't compare their stats because of their ages. When Ventura was Fields age, he was about to begin his 6th full season in the major leagues.

You're a couple years off, but this is silly. No one's expecting him to be the next Robin Ventura.

Nellie_Fox
01-28-2009, 04:42 PM
What I will say, is that I hope Fields can make significant improvements with the glove and hit like he did in 2007. If he can, it will be a huge plus for the 2008 White Sox.With this I can agree. Because if he can't, the Sox are in trouble.

A few more weeks until 'pitchers and catchers'! I need my baseball fix!Me too. I'm looking forward to seeing what MLB Network will be doing with spring training.

Lip Man 1
01-28-2009, 06:57 PM
OEO brings up an extremely valid point. Five years in the organization and his defense is still poor at best?

Seems to support Daver's long standing claim that the Sox feel hitting is the only important part of playing baseball.

Lip

TheOldRoman
01-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Spawn:

To be fair I'm sure there are a lot of fans who'd love to not have to be concerned about a Sox player "stepping it up" in order for the franchise to succeed. To know that the players and team are going to perform at a certain level and not have to have the number of question marks that seem to permeate this franchise every year.

That's not singling out Fields or Nix or Lillibridge or whomever it was the Sox got from the Yankees, just that philosophy in general.

LipSeriously, Lip? Wow.

Please name a team that doesn't have question marks. I know you don't trust anyone under the age of 30, but you have to realize that all teams have young players, and very few have ever hit the ground running like Pujols and A-Rod. You are always praising the Twins and saying they do things right, but you want us to do the exact opposite of them? How can you wax poetically about the future great players Veeck gave up in trades for veterans, and then hope for the Sox to trade every single prospect to get a team of veterans?

everafan
01-28-2009, 08:55 PM
As Hawk always says...you gotta keep that ass down to field the ball

Hawk would say "fanny"

soxinem1
01-28-2009, 09:21 PM
OEO brings up an extremely valid point. Five years in the organization and his defense is still poor at best?

Seems to support Daver's long standing claim that the Sox feel hitting is the only important part of playing baseball.

Lip

Many, many, many trades and signings with as Scheuler, and subsequently KW (especially) as GM support that claim.

Lip Man 1
01-28-2009, 09:47 PM
Roman:

Well I can think of a bunch that don't have serious question marks at second base, third base, center field and at least one spot in the rotation....to say nothing of not having a lead off man nor a backup catcher.

Even in the A.L. Central that's a ton of "ifs" don't ya think?

Lip

Lip Man 1
01-28-2009, 09:50 PM
Roman:

I don't wax poetically about what Veeck did to the best of my knowledge. (A little hyperbole there eh?) He did what he thought he had to do and in fairness to him if you read my stories on it, he originally asked for Orlando Cepeda and Bill White to players who were "young veterans" that proved their mettle in the big leagues. When that was refused he took the best deal that he could.

Lip

guillensdisciple
01-28-2009, 09:50 PM
I really hope he succeeds and he should work on his hitting as well as his fielding- there is no way a successful major leaguer should ever strike out that much.

soxinem1
01-28-2009, 09:55 PM
I really hope he succeeds and he should work on his hitting as well as his fielding- there is no way a successful major leaguer should ever strike out that much.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/images/fan_forum/pepsi/Ryan-Howard-200x200.jpg

'Like me (398 K's in the past two seasons)??

TheOldRoman
01-28-2009, 10:27 PM
Lip-

I was being a little facetious with the waxing comment, but I remember you posting about those trades more than once. Not necessarily critiquing them every time, but saying that they were a pivotal point in franchise history.

As for the question marks on the team, I agree that there are more than I would prefer. However, three of those positions (3B, 2B, SS) have multiple players capable of stepping up and filling the void. This isn't like 2006 going into the season with Anderson or bust and then having to turn to Mackowiak. We may not have a superstar in the waiting competing for any position, but despite protest from Munchie, there are talented prospects going for these spots. We aren't counting on Arnie Munoz or Felix Diaz.

And since we are talking about multiple question marks, the Twins went into last year with FIVE question marks in their rotation, as well as CF and 3B. We don't have the track record of producing talent like the Twins, but it isn't like we are the only team that ever has to count on kids to contribute.

BadBobbyJenks
01-28-2009, 10:31 PM
I should have trusted my instincts and not opened this thread.

voodoochile
01-28-2009, 11:01 PM
Lip-

I was being a little facetious with the waxing comment, but I remember you posting about those trades more than once. Not necessarily critiquing them every time, but saying that they were a pivotal point in franchise history.

As for the question marks on the team, I agree that there are more than I would prefer. However, three of those positions (3B, 2B, SS) have multiple players capable of stepping up and filling the void. This isn't like 2006 going into the season with Anderson or bust and then having to turn to Mackowiak. We may not have a superstar in the waiting competing for any position, but despite protest from Munchie, there are talented prospects going for these spots. We aren't counting on Arnie Munoz or Felix Diaz.

And since we are talking about multiple question marks, the Twins went into last year with FIVE question marks in their rotation, as well as CF and 3B. We don't have the track record of producing talent like the Twins, but it isn't like we are the only team that ever has to count on kids to contribute.

In addition, Fields and Getz are ready for their shot. Nothing to be gained by keeping them in the minors any longer. Yes, we'd all like it if Fields were a better fielder and struck out less, but he is what he is.

You have to give the players their shot when they are ready for it.

At the least there is a good amount of depth behind them in case they falter.

hawkjt
01-28-2009, 11:56 PM
Hawk would say "fanny"

I stand corrected...sorry for the vulgarity. Fanny is the correct term.:smile:

guillensdisciple
01-29-2009, 12:07 AM
I am rather excited to see where this youth competition will take the Sox. I am irking for something fresh with the White Sox, and the new faces on top of the already new faces we attained the previous year, will quench my thirst there.

Fields isn't exactly a new face, but I am really hoping that battle for second base pans out really well. I am going to say it is going to be a tight race between Lillibridge and Getz. Lillibridge has that speed the Sox have been looking for but Getz is the fundamentalist we have been looking for.

Fields will win third outright, Viciedo might be a monster, but he won't be ready. To young, and way too much time taken off from serious baseball. He needs a year in the minors, and then he can come out to third (if Josh blows) or the outfied (if he is good). Beckham will be ready to relinquish whatever troubled infield spot we will have left.

Nellie_Fox
01-29-2009, 12:13 AM
I am irking for ? :?: ? :scratch: ?