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View Full Version : 15 Years Later: What Was Your Reaction To Jordan Playing For The Sox At The Time?


Thome25
01-26-2009, 09:38 AM
The 15-year anniversary of Jordan playing baseball is coming up in Feb./March. I can't believe it's been 15 years since Michael Jordan hung up his sneakers to try his hand at White Sox baseball!!

I can remember being in high school at the time and I was pretty much following every move of this story. I was clipping pictures and articles out of the newspaper and saving magazine covers.

Now that I look back on it, it just seems like a footnote in White Sox and Chicago sports history. It was quite possibly an embarrassing footnote (even though I don't think so.) in the Sox and Jordan's own personal history.

I can remember feeling proud that the greatest basketball player who ever lived was trying his hand at baseball and donning the uniform of our Chicago White Sox (and minor league clubs.) to boot!!

This is definitely a fond memory in the history of my Chicago White Sox fandom!!

So do you remember how you felt about this story at the time? What was your favorite thing about this story?

Thanks for posting!!:D:

pistolesatdawn
01-26-2009, 09:46 AM
I hated it. It was painful to watch and even more painful to read and hear the press lambaste MJ on his clearly not up to par baseball skills. And further more, it prevented what would have been in my opinion the eight-peat (as predicted by Chris Farley on the Superfans skit from the Bulls season retrospective on ch. 5 after the first championship). Hakeem did have awesome seasons those two years in between, but nobody stops MJ in his prime.

BainesHOF
01-26-2009, 09:50 AM
While I hated seeing him leave the Bulls, I thought it was cool that he followed his dream to play baseball. The criticism he received at the time, most notably from Sports Illustrated, that he was taking away time from a kid, was ridiculous. Most minor leaguers are not real prospects.

I saw Jordan play a handful of games in Nashville and Greenville, S.C. He was a credible ballplayer. He just wasn't good enough to play in the big leagues. I applaud him for trying.

Thome25
01-26-2009, 09:50 AM
I hated it. It was painful to watch and even more painful to read and hear the press lambaste MJ on his clearly not up to par baseball skills. And further more, it prevented what would have been in my opinion the eight-peat (as predicted by Chris Farley on the Superfans skit from the Bulls season retrospective on ch. 5 after the first championship). Hakeem did have awesome seasons those two years in between, but nobody stops MJ in his prime.

An 8-peat would've been nice no doubt but, that may not have happened. Even if Jordan stays, they still lose Horace Grant to the Magic IMO......It would've been hard without him.

WTS it was sweet to see him try baseball. It ended up showing that even the greatest athletes fail at this sport. It was also sweet to see him with the White Sox.

Besides, if Jordan never semi-retires to join the White Sox then, maybe the 72-10 season never happens.

jabrch
01-26-2009, 09:51 AM
I thought he should have stuck with what he told us he was going to do when he left basketball - drive carpool and spend time with his boys.

Instead, he went on to play baseball, and to do all sorts of other unsavory stuff that the media was afraid to talk about.

oldcomiskey
01-26-2009, 10:08 AM
An 8-peat would've been nice no doubt but, that may not have happened. Even if Jordan stays, they still lose Horace Grant to the Magic IMO......It would've been hard without him.

WTS it was sweet to see him try baseball. It ended up showing that even the greatest athletes fail at this sport. It was also sweet to see him with the White Sox.

Besides, if Jordan never semi-retires to join the White Sox then, maybe the 72-10 season never happens.

but they won 3 titles without Grant did they not

oldcomiskey
01-26-2009, 10:09 AM
I thought he should have stuck with what he told us he was going to do when he left basketball - drive carpool and spend time with his boys.

Instead, he went on to play baseball, and to do all sorts of other unsavory stuff that the media was afraid to talk about.

that may or may not got his father killed

dickallen15
01-26-2009, 10:12 AM
Call me crazy, but I think he did OK for a guy who hadn't played baseball since high school. Its not like he started in rookie ball. Putting him at Birmingham, not the easiest place to put up numbers didn't help him either. He probably would have been a pretty good player without the layoff. I'm glad he went back to basketball though.

Thome25
01-26-2009, 10:13 AM
but they won 3 titles without Grant did they not

Yeah but, they had Rodman in Grant's role when they won those 3......Rodman wasn't available immediately after Horace Grant signed with the Magic.

You saw what happened to the Bulls w/o a good power forward right after Jordan returned and they had to play the Magic in the playoffs.

Thome25
01-26-2009, 10:14 AM
Call me crazy, but I think he did OK for a guy who hadn't played baseball since high school. Its not like he started in rookie ball. Putting him at Birmingham, not the easiest place to put up numbers didn't help him either. He probably would have been a pretty good player without the layoff. I'm glad he went back to basketball though.


I agree.

ChiSoxFan81
01-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Being only 13 at the time, I thought it was awesome. I still have a plaque with a picture of Jordan from the Crosstown Classic he played in. Looking back, it's a quirky footnote in history, but not much more.

slavko
01-26-2009, 10:42 AM
I thought he should have stuck with what he told us he was going to do when he left basketball - drive carpool and spend time with his boys.

Instead, he went on to play baseball, and to do all sorts of other unsavory stuff that the media was afraid to talk about.

Good recall there. Michael's ego was a good thing and a bad thing. He still has it, never lost it. Although a third comeback is probably out of the question.

spawn
01-26-2009, 10:43 AM
I thought he should have stuck with what he told us he was going to do when he left basketball - drive carpool and spend time with his boys.

Instead, he went on to play baseball, and to do all sorts of other unsavory stuff that the media was afraid to talk about.
Word.

SOXPHILE
01-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Didn't like it, saw is as the publicity stunt it was. I still remember the papers following his every move in the minors, while his batting average at the AA level dropped towards .200.

I've stated before, and there are rumors out there, that some type of gambling scandal involving him was uncovered by the NBA, and because this would have been a terrible blow to the league if something came out about their premier player, he "retired" for 1 1/2 years, (suspended), and nothing more was said. I really don't believe in all these conspiricy theories, but I kinda sorta wonder about this one, as it all seemed very odd at the time. I wondered about it a little more when, last year, that referee admitted to gambling on games.

the gooch
01-26-2009, 11:02 AM
The 15-year anniversary of Jordan playing baseball is coming up in Feb./March. I can't believe it's been 15 years since Michael Jordan hung up his sneakers to try his hand at White Sox baseball!!
It would also be the 15 year anniversary of Jordan trying his hand at something else he would fail.
I hated it. It was painful to watch and even more painful to read and hear the press lambaste MJ on his clearly not up to par baseball skills. And further more, it prevented what would have been in my opinion the eight-peat (as predicted by Chris Farley on the Superfans skit from the Bulls season retrospective on ch. 5 after the first championship). Hakeem did have awesome seasons those two years in between, but nobody stops MJ in his prime.Not as painful to watch as Space Jam:
http://www.soleredemption.com/pics/2006/04/MikeSpaceJam.jpg

WhiteSox5187
01-26-2009, 11:28 AM
Had he not retired, I think the Bulls probably would have actually won an 8-Peat. But that is speculative history. I don't fault the guy for trying to play baseball, I know that there is a lot of shady stuff behind his motivation, but I'm not going to fault a guy for trying to live out a dream.

Plus, I think his experience in the minors made him a better basketball player.

Railsplitter
01-26-2009, 11:28 AM
I care for basketball about as much as I do for the north end of a southbound rat, but I thought Jordan playing baseball was a bad idea. What did it prove?

Jerko
01-26-2009, 11:42 AM
I thought it was an attention-whoring joke. Hated every second of it.

Thome25
01-26-2009, 11:44 AM
I care for basketball about as much as I do for the north end of a southbound rat, but I thought Jordan playing baseball was a bad idea. What did it prove?

I think if his father hadn't died, then Jordan probably wouldn't have tried baseball to begin with.

I believe that his dad dying made him realize that life is truly precious and that you had better live it to the fullest before you pass on. Baseball for Jordan was a stone that was unturned in his life and I bet that he wanted to at the very least say that he tried it before his life was over.

He was trying to fulfill a dream in his life and also, I think he was trying to go back to a time that reminded him of his childhood with his father.

As Whitesox5187 said, you can't fault a guy for trying to live out a dream. Besides, it was entertaining to watch an exceptional athlete try his hand at a more difficult sport.

It makes you appreciate the athletes who really do succeed at baseball because it is not an easy task to hit a small round ball with a round bat. Ask MJ.

areilly
01-26-2009, 11:53 AM
An 8-peat would've been nice no doubt but, that may not have happened. Even if Jordan stays, they still lose Horace Grant to the Magic IMO......It would've been hard without him.

Also keep in mind that for the second time around, they picked up Harper in 1994/1995 and added Rodman for 1995/1996. So even though a fully-charged MJ in 1994/1995 might've meant the Bulls beat the Magic, that still leaves a hole in 1993/1994.

Then again, "seven-eighths-peat" sounds very. . . Chicago. Ah, sweet sports nostalgia.

Rockin Robin
01-26-2009, 12:07 PM
Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.

dickallen15
01-26-2009, 12:16 PM
Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.

Was Magic Johnson also suspended? For a guy with HIV he sure looks strong 18 years later and returned to the NBA after a 4 year layoff. Michael' dad was murdered. He didn't feel like playing after that. Time heals wounds.

Jordan gambles/gambled no more than Charles Barkley. From what I know Charles never got suspended for gambling. I'm just glad you have bugged David Stern's office to make sure all of us that aren't behind consipiracy theories get set straight.

soltrain21
01-26-2009, 12:21 PM
I was nine, so I thought it was awesome.

spawn
01-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.
I guess I'm lying to myself then. :shrug:

I guess I find it ridiculous that David Stern would care more for Jordan's reputation than his own. IMO, there is no way this news wouldn't leak, especially if it centers around gambling. I think it would be stupid for Stern to risk his reputation and that of the NBA to cover up a suspension of the games biggest star. IMO, that would inflict more damage when the cover-up was exposed.

thomas35forever
01-26-2009, 12:39 PM
Not as painful to watch as Space Jam:
http://www.soleredemption.com/pics/2006/04/MikeSpaceJam.jpg
C'mon, I love that movie! Maybe because I was only 7 when it came out.

Law11
01-26-2009, 12:46 PM
I was at the ol park the day he blasted 2 into the left field Upper deck during BP well before his actual baseball days began.

very cool to see.

soxinem1
01-26-2009, 01:04 PM
When he had a good cross-town exibition game against the cubs, I thought it was cool.

On the other hand, Mike cost another real pro player a roster spot, and barely ht. 200 with a lot of K's, little power, not enough SB's, etc.

Uncle Jerry just used it as a publicity stunt. But once the players went on strike, I found it ironic that he just threw in the towel as he did. After all, the team was prepared to let him play another year.

He did get that great travel bus for Birmingham to travel on the road with.

But he obviously showed one thing: Regardless of how gifted the athlete, baseball is the toughest sport to master and succeed in.

JorgeFabregas
01-26-2009, 01:20 PM
But he obviously showed one thing: Regardless of how gifted the athlete, baseball is the toughest sport to master and succeed in.
I don't necessarily disagree with the bolded statement, but I'm not sure how he proved that. Put the greatest baseball player of all time into a professional basketball setting and they'd probably also struggle. They require different skill sets and you have to train for long time on either to be good.

esbrechtel
01-26-2009, 01:29 PM
I was nine, so I thought it was awesome.

Ha, Ha, same here...

I also thought it was awesome when he hit that HR against the Cubs....

Konerko05
01-26-2009, 01:58 PM
Ha, Ha, same here...

I also thought it was awesome when he hit that HR against the Cubs....

I don't think he hit a home run in the Windy City Classic. I do remember a double down the third base line.

At the time, I thought it was pretty cool when Jordan was in the White Sox system.

It was kind of a publicity stunt, but he wasn't actually that bad. For a guy who had not played professional baseball in over 10 years, he held his own in AA. He probably should have been assigned to A ball. He might have had a decent year.

Demps2
01-26-2009, 02:30 PM
Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.


100% why this happened. The NBA is a gutless league. They fix games, drafts, etc. They just didn't have the balls to say that the greatest player ever to play the sport was in trouble. Bad PR.

Chrisaway
01-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Being that I was 11 years old, I thought it was awesome!!!

Nellie_Fox
01-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.I always love it when people are so sure they are right, with no hard evidence, that they can make statements like this.

spawn
01-26-2009, 02:43 PM
I always love it when people are so sure they are right, with no hard evidence, that they can make statements like this.
You mean statements like this?

100% why this happened. The NBA is a gutless league. They fix games, drafts, etc. They just didn't have the balls to say that the greatest player ever to play the sport was in trouble. Bad PR.

guillen4life13
01-26-2009, 03:02 PM
I think if his father hadn't died, then Jordan probably wouldn't have tried baseball to begin with.

I believe that his dad dying made him realize that life is truly precious and that you had better live it to the fullest before you pass on. Baseball for Jordan was a stone that was unturned in his life and I bet that he wanted to at the very least say that he tried it before his life was over.

He was trying to fulfill a dream in his life and also, I think he was trying to go back to a time that reminded him of his childhood with his father.

As Whitesox5187 said, you can't fault a guy for trying to live out a dream. Besides, it was entertaining to watch an exceptional athlete try his hand at a more difficult sport.

It makes you appreciate the athletes who really do succeed at baseball because it is not an easy task to hit a small round ball with a round bat. Ask MJ.

It's not an easy task, for sure. But that's why a guy who hits his way on base only 30% of the time is considered an upper echelon player in most situations. I played both sports and I have to say that, IMHO, basketball is a very tough sport. You can't compare it to baseball because it's apples an oranges. Each sport requires a very different set of skills. Ask just about any baseball player to get in an NBA game and they'll be winded within three minutes. They wouldn't be fast OR quick enough. The level of conditioning needed to play a 82 game season is a lot more than what's needed for a 162 game baseball season.

And don't even get me started on top-tier soccer.

But he obviously showed one thing: Regardless of how gifted the athlete, baseball is the toughest sport to master and succeed in.

:rolleyes:. I have to disagree with this. The greatest asset any healthy human needs to be a good baseball player is eyesight. And I do think that had Jordan pursued baseball instead of basketball from the get-go, he would have been a quality major leaguer. Considering his athletic gifts, he would have probably been a star. I don't care who it is, if a player hasn't played baseball in a decade then suddenly decides to play (that too, at the highest level he has ever played at), it will take a while for that player to start performing really well.

Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.

This type of statement is usually backed up with some real evidence. I'm not saying you're off-base, but I think you have jack **** to back up that statement while all other available evidence says that MJ quit basketball for his own reasons.

Oh, and for the record, IMHO, the Bulls do a 4 peat, then the Rockets win 94-95, then the Bulls do a second 3-peat. Remember, Pippen took the Bulls within a game of the finals (and if it weren't for Hue Hollins, the Bulls would have likely represented the East in the Finals 93-94). Add Jordan into that and I think they take out any other competition.

Chez
01-26-2009, 04:14 PM
that may or may not got his father killed

Do you have any evidence that MJ's "unsavory actions" contributed to the death of his father? I'm not asking for proof positive -- but just give us a one little morsel of credible evidence which supports that theory.

Frater Perdurabo
01-26-2009, 06:00 PM
I wished that he had not retired from the NBA in the first place. Those Bulls could have won those two years over the Houston Rockets and if so, and then continued with their second three-peat, would have tied the old Celtics with an "eight-peat."

However, given that he was retired, I thought it was extremely cool that the Sox had signed him.

Frater Perdurabo
01-26-2009, 06:20 PM
An 8-peat would've been nice no doubt but, that may not have happened. Even if Jordan stays, they still lose Horace Grant to the Magic IMO......It would've been hard without him.

Yeah but, they had Rodman in Grant's role when they won those 3......Rodman wasn't available immediately after Horace Grant signed with the Magic.

You saw what happened to the Bulls w/o a good power forward right after Jordan returned and they had to play the Magic in the playoffs.

Also keep in mind that for the second time around, they picked up Harper in 1994/1995 and added Rodman for 1995/1996. So even though a fully-charged MJ in 1994/1995 might've meant the Bulls beat the Magic, that still leaves a hole in 1993/1994.

The only season the Bulls did not have an elite power forward was 94-95. Grant was with them for 93-94. Rodman joined for 95-96.

In the 93-94 season, with Grant but without Jordan, the Bulls got into the second round of the playoffs and lost to the Knicks. With Jordan, they would have beaten the Knicks, beaten the Pacers, and then had a great matchup with the Rockets. I think these Bulls would have beaten the Rockets in six or seven games.

In 94-95, without Grant and with an improperly-conditioned Jordan, the Bulls lost in the second round to the Magic. If Jordan had been in basketball shape (had played hoops the whole season) instead of returning in the last quarter of the season in baseball shape, the Bulls likely would have beaten the Magic, then beaten the Pacers, then had a good rematch with the Rockets. Without Grant, their interior defense would have suffered (important when facing the Rockets), so this is the year that they would have been most likely to lose the NBA Finals.

So I think the "seven out of eight" scenario is likely, barring injuries.

whitesox901
01-26-2009, 07:27 PM
Space Jam ruled

Bobby Thigpen
01-26-2009, 07:30 PM
I guess I'm lying to myself then. :shrug:

I guess I find it ridiculous that David Stern would care more for Jordan's reputation than his own. IMO, there is no way this news wouldn't leak, especially if it centers around gambling. I think it would be stupid for Stern to risk his reputation and that of the NBA to cover up a suspension of the games biggest star. IMO, that would inflict more damage when the cover-up was exposed.
To dismiss a possible Jordan scandal and it's impact on the league at that time is foolish. You had quite possibly the most popular athlete on the planet ever at the height of his proffession. Any scandal involving gambling would've absolutely destroyed not only Jordan, or Stern, but the entire league. Look what the Black Sox scandal did to baseball. And while that was a great team, no one was arguing it as the greatest ever. Pete Rose's scandal was a black eye, how big do you think a scandal involving MJ would have been? The NBA may have never recovered.

And hasn't tidbits of MJ's gambling problem been leaked? It just seems that most people like to overlook his more nasty sides.

For the record, I don't know for sure that a suspension happened. I tend to lean toward the yes it did side. It just seems really convienent that he went to work for the same employer and suddenly realized halfway through a season that he wanted to come back to that employer's other team. Just seems really suspect. Add in his love of gambling and some not so good things, and I could see it adding up.

TommyJohn
01-26-2009, 09:58 PM
All of these wild-eyed "Jordan was suspended" conspiracy theories are making me dizzy. I mean, what the ****? How the **** hard is it to believe that Jordan simply retired on his own, feeling he had accomplished everything and had no more mountains to climb, and wanted to pursue something else? That he was simply doing what 95-98% of humanity wishes it could do? And he came back because he felt the driving urge to go out and continue to do what he did better than any other person because he was too young to quit and his competitive nature just wouldn't let him walk away? Is that just too hard to believe? If so, why?

And consider this: How is it that news of a huge Jordan gambling scandal never got out? Don't you think one person would have found out? Does he not continue to gamble? So a suspension didn't do much good. The Black Sox and Pete Rose had evidence that was found after lengthy investigations. There is no eveidence or logic behind any of these crack-brained theories, but they come up once in a while in Jordan threads. Please, you'd be better off going to Roswell, New Mexico and looking for the grassy knoll gunman.

FedEx227
01-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Who said Jordan isn't still gambling?

Talk to people that do business with him.

I won't go into too many details, but one of my professors is a commercial agent at IMG and his father is an agent for McDonalds.

They both alluded to him still having a pretty bad gambling problem.

Bucky F. Dent
01-26-2009, 10:26 PM
My real reaction - what did MJ do to get himself booted out of the league?

oldcomiskey
01-27-2009, 01:15 AM
Do you have any evidence that MJ's "unsavory actions" contributed to the death of his father? I'm not asking for proof positive -- but just give us a one little morsel of credible evidence which supports that theory.

thats why I say it may have--its just a personal theory

Frater Perdurabo
01-27-2009, 06:06 AM
My real reaction - what did MJ do to get himself booted out of the league?

I'm not sure what to believe because we don't have all (or even many) of the facts (just third-hand rumors and innuendoes); I don't necessarily believe in a conspiracy theory.

However, just for conversation purposes, here's a totally fictional scenario that illustrates how serious a situation could get:

A "ban-worthy" offense likely would consist of accumulating so much gambling debt that one might be under pressure to "tank" a game or a series. Then you tell your gambling buddies that you won't throw a game, so they order a hit on a member of your family. But because you still have the debt, you still are under pressure to throw a game or a series. So you leave your professional sports league, but continue to collect endorsement income, so that you can pay off your gambling debts. To satisfy your competitive urges, you decide to play a sport where you can be challenged but play at a level that does not have an active betting line in Vegas.

jabrch
01-27-2009, 07:36 AM
that may or may not got his father killed

and that may or may not have had adverse impact on his marriage.

His inner circle (and that included "media" like Lou Canelis) would never rat him out. But if what MJ used to do became public back in the day, Nike, Gatorade, and the rest of the world would have tempered their interest in him.

Even to this day Mike Greenberg talks on the air about the MJ days and says there are things he just can't talk about.

Moses_Scurry
01-27-2009, 07:57 AM
Also, saying that MJ was so rich that he wouldn't have to have a huge debt or run with the mob isn't a valid point.

MJ was very rich at the time, but he was also very arrogant and probably figured that nobody would touch him or come collecting. I know for a fact that he was a terrible tipper for his caddies (I was a caddy) who had the attitude that the honor of caddying for Michael Jordan was a good enough tip. Most of the higher level caddies at Butler refused to caddy for him. It's not very hard to believe that he would welch on bets or take his sweet time paying off.

Maybe he did that with the wrong person. MJ might not even know if said person is affiliated with the mob.

Frontman
01-27-2009, 08:51 AM
Well, part of me wanted more Bulls championships. But, seeing him try wasn't a bad thing; as it was a good lesson for kids that it doesn't hurt to try new things and fail, even for the greatest.

His return game was something amazing. I just loved watching how, WHILE ON THE ROAD MIND YOU; the entire stadium held their collective breath until he touched the ball; then CHEERED. Mind you, ROAD GAME!!

I forget who was assigned to cover him on defense; but whomever it was had the look of absolute terror the second MJ did get the ball. I'm sure he wouldn't of been so in fear had he realized how rusty MJ was that day; but still, when the kid shot in to try and take the ball from Jordan, then looked at who he was actually guarding? Classic moment.

Also, as many of you know, I'm a fan of Bob Costas. I think his commentary is some of the best; and his love of all sports just comes through when he talks. To this day, I remember what he said prior to MJ's return to the Bulls.

"In an era of Free Agency and contract disputes; it is great to see a true artist return to the canvas that made him a legend. Michael Jordan returns to the Bulls..." and then the NBA on NBC theme kicks in. I kept that thing on video tape for years. (that whole day was just insane here in Chicago.)

So, in short, without MJ's first departure, I don't think we would of had that magical comment. I think of that comment every time I heard the "NBA on NBC" theme.

Now, as far as his off the court/field stuff? I wasn't a fan of his because of his character. Might of enjoyed his commercials; but I don't consider Jordan the greatest person of all time. I think he was arguably the greatest basketball player of all time, easily in my lifetime.

I'll always remember MJ and his time as a Bull; not as a Baron. To sum it up; few athletes accomplished what MJ was able to; to capture the world's attention any time he had the ball:

NseKug63naM

dickallen15
01-27-2009, 09:18 AM
and that may or may not have had adverse impact on his marriage.

His inner circle (and that included "media" like Lou Canelis) would never rat him out. But if what MJ used to do became public back in the day, Nike, Gatorade, and the rest of the world would have tempered their interest in him.

Even to this day Mike Greenberg talks on the air about the MJ days and says there are things he just can't talk about.


There are things about a lot of athletes people just can't talk about. It doesn't mean there is some sort of conspiracy theory that everyone is supposed to believe or they are just stupid.

Chez
01-27-2009, 10:02 AM
and that may or may not have had adverse impact on his marriage.


I have a problem with using the term "may or may not" in general and, specifically in this context. Almost anything "may or may not" be true. I "may or may not" be a serial killer or from the planet Saturn. Josh Fields "may or may not" be the AL MVP in 2009. The term is so broad that it's meaningless and is likely used to create an ugly innuendo where no facts exist to support the innuendo. If you have facts to support the statement; what are they? But don't hide behind "may or may not." Not really fair to the subject of the innuendo.

Frontman
01-27-2009, 11:18 AM
I have a problem with using the term "may or may not" in general and, specifically in this context. Almost anything "may or may not" be true. I "may or may not" be a serial killer or from the planet Saturn. Josh Fields "may or may not" be the AL MVP in 2009. The term is so broad that it's meaningless and is likely used to create an ugly innuendo where no facts exist to support the innuendo. If you have facts to support the statement; what are they? But don't hide behind "may or may not." Not really fair to the subject of the innuendo.

"Well then, clearly you are NOT a serial killer. Everyone knows alien serial killers do not come from Mars; they're more from Askhellia."
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/childlikeemperess/fourthdoctor.jpg

mrwag
01-27-2009, 12:32 PM
I was at the ol park the day he blasted 2 into the left field Upper deck during BP well before his actual baseball days began.

very cool to see.

I was there too! My 16th birthday, July 25, 1990. It was my first and only game at the old park. An awesome day in so many ways.

the gooch
01-27-2009, 01:20 PM
I believe in the suspension thing. The thing with Jordan is he was such a competitor he wouldn't pay up because he thought he could play his way back to even.

I heard a story (i know that doesn't make it true) that when he was in the Wizards' front office, he would play $100 a shot from half court with either Stackhouse or Arenas. The team bus couldn't leave until Jordan caught up.

There was a lot of talk about Jordan's golf gambling throughout 92/93 - before his father's murder. I'm sure he got in deep - the kind of money that even if he wanted to pay he couldn't without first 'filtering' it in some way. Whether the league knew about it or not, I think most people can acknowledge this is both possible and likely, because his golf game was only good enough to be dangerous.

In Jordan's defense, the playoffs are an entire month extra of the season, and then add the 1992 Dream Team so that he doesn't get any kind of offseason. He could have just been burned out and needed some time off.

It is possible he was burned out, but the baseball stuff works against that theory and the time-with-family theory, and that dessth-picable movie Space Jam was quite transparent when alluding to his return. If someone wanted to walk away from the game, why would they tease (and torture) the public with that movie? So yeah, I think it was planned.

Dan H
01-27-2009, 01:20 PM
I don't understand Jordan having to play major league baseball to fulfill a dream. He won championships in college, the olympics and the NBA. How many dreams does a guy have?

I actually was suprised how well he did. But I don't consider his baseball playing as memorable or dream fulfilling.

DSpivack
01-27-2009, 01:29 PM
I don't understand Jordan having to play major league baseball to fulfill a dream. He won championships in college, the olympics and the NBA. How many dreams does a guy have?

I actually was suprised how well he did. But I don't consider his baseball playing as memorable or dream fulfilling.

Why not? From what I've read of him, baseball was his favorite sport growing up.

spawn
01-27-2009, 01:56 PM
It is possible he was burned out, but the baseball stuff works against that theory and the time-with-family theory, and that dessth-picable movie Space Jam was quite transparent when alluding to his return. If someone wanted to walk away from the game, why would they tease (and torture) the public with that movie? So yeah, I think it was planned.
Um...Jordan had already returned to basketball when Space Jam was released. he came back in '95. It was released in '96. If it was a tease, it was a pretty bad one, seeing as at the end of the movie, they showed a couple of shots of actual games played when he was sporting #45.

As for the suspension thing...yeah, I believe it. I also believe Tupac and Elvis are both still alive too.

TDog
01-27-2009, 02:11 PM
Baseball should have embraced Michael Jordan. Here was someone who was one of the all-time greats in a sport to which baseball's popularity was eroding, particularly to a large demographic of the young population. And he announces he always wanted to be a baseball player.

That's pretty much the way I felt about it at the time. Of course, baseball isn't as easy as basketball. Many young people have been turning to other sports, not because baseball is a slow game, but because it's a difficult game. Jordan wasn't going to step in and become a great baseball player. But the baseball world should have been showing him support.

Anything that might inspire young athletes to play more baseball and give up the other inferior sports would be good for the game.

TommyJohn
01-27-2009, 04:03 PM
As for the suspension thing...yeah, I believe it. I also believe Tupac and Elvis are both still alive too.

They are. Jordan hung out with them while he was suspended. Ty Cobb wanted to join them, but none of them could stand the SOB when he was alive, so they told him to stick it.

veeter
01-27-2009, 04:15 PM
It made my dad's spring training experience of 1994 miserable.

jdm2662
01-27-2009, 04:34 PM
I was 17 in 1994, and was probably into sports the most during this part of my life. Of course, I'm sure it had to do for the fact I hated everything else going on in my life. :redneck

Now to respond to other issues in this thread.

The Bulls had a week bench in 92-93, yet over came it and still won. They rebuilt it and had a very strong bench in 93-94. All season long, I kept saying, if Jordan is here, they win easily. I was just hoping for a .500 record. I never expected 55 wins!

94-95, they might have made it to the finals, but they might have lost to the Magic. They had no power forward, and it killed them more than an out of conditioned Jordan. They also allowed Grant to score over them. If you remember the 96 series against teh Magic, they changed their gameplan. I do know there is no way they beat the Rockets if they even make it to the finals. Hakeem was down right sick that playoffs, and that was by far the best performance I've ever seen a guy not named Jordan in the playoffs.

As for his gambling issues, unless there is actual proof he bet on basketball, it's a non-issue. Talk all you want, but give me concrete evidence, which no one has provided. We don't know what went on behind the scenes. In my book, it's no difference than when a reporter uses "sources".

And yes, Jordan did let me down for the simple fact he wasn't who I thought he was. Now that I'm in my 30s, I don't really care about that too much. Show up to the game, give a full effort, and don't do anything illegal. That's all I ask for these days.

ode to veeck
01-27-2009, 04:38 PM
100% why this happened. The NBA is a gutless league. They fix games, drafts, etc. They just didn't have the balls to say that the greatest player ever to play the sport was in trouble. Bad PR.

where the hell does this crap come from

Frontman
01-27-2009, 06:17 PM
where the hell does this crap come from

Same place the Sox post-game/White Sox Weekly calls come from...those who don't pay attention or do some actual thinking for themselves. "Hey Ranger. Yous knows, what da Sox need? Dey need to trade Paul Konerko for Chone Figgins. What? What's a 'no-trade' clause?"

Since enough radio heads have hinted around issues with Jordan; the mind runs wild with it. Jordan might of (and still might be) a complete jerk; but that does not immediately mean the Mob had his father killed while he took time off from the NBA so they could rig games to make money on them. People will believe it, just because its better to believe in a falsehood than not know something.

They also believe we faked the Apollo Moon Landings; yet make fun of Cubs fans that still believe in curses......

Parrothead
01-27-2009, 06:37 PM
It was an embarrasment to the Sox and baseball. He should have never been allowed to play. But I guess he had to do something besides "spending more time with my family", while on the unannounced suspension for gambling.

Parrothead
01-27-2009, 06:42 PM
and that may or may not have had adverse impact on his marriage.

I think Jordan screwing around on his wife had more impact on his marriage. And yes, my cousins seeing him at one of his conquests apartment at 7 am is proof.

jabrch
01-27-2009, 07:27 PM
I think Jordan screwing around on his wife had more impact on his marriage. And yes, my cousins seeing him at one of his conquests apartment at 7 am is proof.

That's what I was talking about. His "screwing around", if true, is legendary.

jabrch
01-27-2009, 07:31 PM
I have a problem with using the term "may or may not" in general and, specifically in this context. Almost anything "may or may not" be true. I "may or may not" be a serial killer or from the planet Saturn. Josh Fields "may or may not" be the AL MVP in 2009. The term is so broad that it's meaningless and is likely used to create an ugly innuendo where no facts exist to support the innuendo. If you have facts to support the statement; what are they? But don't hide behind "may or may not." Not really fair to the subject of the innuendo.

There are plenty of facts to support MJ's womanizing. The media never reported it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can compare your serial killerness and Fields MVPness to MJs cheating all you want. One of these things is not like the other... Guess which one...

jdm2662
01-27-2009, 07:43 PM
There are plenty of facts to support MJ's womanizing. The media never reported it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can compare your serial killerness and Fields MVPness to MJs cheating all you want. One of these things is not like the other... Guess which one...

I think people have come to realize that. I didn't find MJ too likeable of a person the last couple of years he played, and certainly the few years after it. Maybe it was because he fooled me on the person he really was. I don't really care about that now. I don't see his mug much on TV these days, and I've come to leaving player's personal lives as their own business. Just show up, give a full effort, and don't do anything illegal. That's all I ask for. MJ came to play every night. So, I have no complaints of him as a player. A model/likeable human being? Not really. He had me fooled for a long time he was. He was smart to act professional when the cameras were rolling. He won and performed at a high level. That's all should matter to fans.

I'm just talking about the proof about the so called suspension. Show me proof he bet on basketball, and then I may believe it. You'd like to think with the TV/media whores out there, that SOMEONE would come out and say it/show some proof. No one has. His other gambling addictions/problems, well that's not an issue to me. I don't care what he does with his money. Besides, who doesn't have a gambling problem? I have one. I don't win enough as I would like. :redneck

Chez
01-28-2009, 08:04 AM
There are plenty of facts to support MJ's womanizing. The media never reported it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can compare your serial killerness and Fields MVPness to MJs cheating all you want. One of these things is not like the other... Guess which one...

Jabrch:

If you go back and read your post to which it I replied, my impression was that you were linking Jordan's alleged gambling issue -- which was the subject being discussed -- with the failure of his marriage (just as the upstream poster was linking his alleged gambling issue with the death of his father -- to which there isn't a shred of evidence to support). You seem to have changed the context of your "evidence" or, perhaps, I missed your point (or maybe I really "may or may not" be a serial killer and need to come to grips with it). Whatever.

FedEx227
01-28-2009, 10:12 AM
I'm just talking about the proof about the so called suspension. Show me proof he bet on basketball, and then I may believe it. You'd like to think with the TV/media whores out there, that SOMEONE would come out and say it/show some proof. No one has. His other gambling addictions/problems, well that's not an issue to me. I don't care what he does with his money. Besides, who doesn't have a gambling problem? I have one. I don't win enough as I would like. :redneck

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id1635/pg1/index.html

Nellie_Fox
01-28-2009, 11:12 AM
Besides, who doesn't have a gambling problem? I have one. I don't win enough as I would like. :redneckA lot of people don't gamble at all.

jdm2662
01-28-2009, 11:44 AM
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id1635/pg1/index.html

I found that a few years ago. While it's got some interesting points, I guess we will never know the full story.

spawn
01-28-2009, 11:47 AM
A lot of people don't gamble at all.
I'm one of them. I work too hard for my money to just thorw it away betting on point spreads, poker, etc.

Jerko
01-28-2009, 12:00 PM
I found that a few years ago. While it's got some interesting points, I guess we will never know the full story.

IMO we'll get the full story when Jordan is an old, attention-starved man who misses the limelight and comes out with a book.

Thome25
01-28-2009, 12:02 PM
IMO we'll get the full story when Jordan is an old, attention-starved man who misses the limelight and comes out with a book.

You just described Jordan when he played for the Wizards.:redneck

Edit: I didn't realize that "fixed your post" posts were no longer allowed. I had to change the fact that I did that......and I apologize.

jdm2662
01-28-2009, 12:10 PM
IMO we'll get the full story when Jordan is an old, attention-starved man who misses the limelight and comes out with a book.

Knowing MJ, that wouldn't surprise me one bit.

CMPDragRacing
01-29-2009, 02:16 AM
What was your favorite thing about this story?


seeing mj play baseball in his one and only game ever played in chicago, yea it was at the urinal, but it was cool to see him play ball in person.

EndemicSox
01-29-2009, 04:39 AM
Every man has his flaws. I thought it was cool that MJ was playing baseball. Still think it was cool. The man also personified cool on the basketball court, along with being the greatest of all time, of course. Glad to see his kid playing for the Illini.

FedEx227
01-29-2009, 09:54 AM
I found that a few years ago. While it's got some interesting points, I guess we will never know the full story.

No, unfortunately we won't, but if you read some of the books about Jordan at the time you'll see it's not out of the realm of possibility that his gambling would become out of control.

Hell this is a guy who'd drop $10,000 on who's luggage would be the first down the belt at the airport.

jdm2662
01-29-2009, 10:43 AM
No, unfortunately we won't, but if you read some of the books about Jordan at the time you'll see it's not out of the realm of possibility that his gambling would become out of control.

Hell this is a guy who'd drop $10,000 on who's luggage would be the first down the belt at the airport.

I don't doubt he is/was a gambling addicit. Unless he bet on basketball, it's not really an issue. If he did, then he should've never gotten a free pass, MJ or not.

tick53
01-29-2009, 11:10 AM
I thought it was cool and I can't believe it's been 15 years already.

EndemicSox
01-29-2009, 04:29 PM
His gambling probably was out of control, compared to the average Joe. Not a fan of the individuals who seem to take pleasure in trying to knock Jordan off his pedestal. It 'aint gonna happen, so give it a rest...

The guy made Chicago relevant on the world-wide sporting scene for a decade, nothing but respect for the man.

Demps2
01-31-2009, 05:23 PM
Same place the Sox post-game/White Sox Weekly calls come from...those who don't pay attention or do some actual thinking for themselves. "Hey Ranger. Yous knows, what da Sox need? Dey need to trade Paul Konerko for Chone Figgins. What? What's a 'no-trade' clause?"

Since enough radio heads have hinted around issues with Jordan; the mind runs wild with it. Jordan might of (and still might be) a complete jerk; but that does not immediately mean the Mob had his father killed while he took time off from the NBA so they could rig games to make money on them. People will believe it, just because its better to believe in a falsehood than not know something.

They also believe we faked the Apollo Moon Landings; yet make fun of Cubs fans that still believe in curses......


I am not saying I believe in aliens or the government fixed 9/11. But there are many stories that I have heard (Tim Donnahey) and others (Bulls winning lottery last year) that the NBA is corrupt. I'm not just making this up or taking a shot at MJ. I don't know where I heard this, but there was a story that the LAL-SAC game 6 in 2002 was fixed by refs. not saying it's true, just a report. I have no more inside info than any of you guys, but the NBA has had a reputation of it's problems with star player favoritism on the court (and off) and that stupid lottery. anyone who DOESN'T think that was fixed last year is kidding. the Bulls had less than or around 1% chance of winning it, and somehow they get this PG that is a hometown legend. interesting.

kevin57
01-31-2009, 05:46 PM
I voted "didn't care" because I neither hated nor loved it, but it was more than a non-issue to me. I considered it a circus. Because Jordan never made it to the major leagues I didn't consider it a "distraction" (hence, harmful) to the White Sox. If he had somehow gotten there, though, it would have been hugely problematic IMO.

soxfanreggie
01-31-2009, 08:09 PM
It was always his choice for what to do, but I didn't agree with it.

Frontman
01-31-2009, 08:29 PM
I am not saying I believe in aliens or the government fixed 9/11. But there are many stories that I have heard (Tim Donnahey) and others (Bulls winning lottery last year) that the NBA is corrupt. I'm not just making this up or taking a shot at MJ. I don't know where I heard this, but there was a story that the LAL-SAC game 6 in 2002 was fixed by refs. not saying it's true, just a report. I have no more inside info than any of you guys, but the NBA has had a reputation of it's problems with star player favoritism on the court (and off) and that stupid lottery. anyone who DOESN'T think that was fixed last year is kidding. the Bulls had less than or around 1% chance of winning it, and somehow they get this PG that is a hometown legend. interesting.

Not to dump on you; but this is innuendo. It's about as dependable as this statement:


"Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious."

soxfan1983
01-31-2009, 08:53 PM
Anybody who doesn't think Jordan was suspended from the NBA is lying to themselves.

so did he get suspended AGAIN after the 97-98 season?!

come on, get real. his father was murdered, he had a revelation that life is short so he wanted to try out his first love - baseball. tried it out and was very humble doing it. think about it, best basketball ever to play in the minors on the birmingham barrons... real humbling (and did not complain about not being in the majors....)

he tried, didn't succeed, and then went back to something he enjoyed and obviously missed.

soxfan1983
01-31-2009, 08:55 PM
oh and I thought it was pretty cool, I was in 5th grade when he came back to basketball. but it was definitely painful watching him try to hit a curveball. and we were blessed with Space Jam because of it!

Church Turtle
02-01-2009, 01:05 AM
I thought it was interesting that baseball was his first love. But I kept thinking at the time, sheesh - look at that strike zone.

Frater Perdurabo
02-01-2009, 06:48 AM
I thought it was interesting that baseball was his first love. But I kept thinking at the time, sheesh - look at that strike zone.

Jordan (6-6) is only an inch taller than Jermaine Dye (6-5) and Frank Thomas (6-5). Of course, the latter two are much better at covering their respective zones than Jordan was!

Demps2
02-01-2009, 11:02 AM
so did he get suspended AGAIN after the 97-98 season?!

come on, get real. his father was murdered, he had a revelation that life is short so he wanted to try out his first love - baseball. tried it out and was very humble doing it. think about it, best basketball ever to play in the minors on the birmingham barrons... real humbling (and did not complain about not being in the majors....)

he tried, didn't succeed, and then went back to something he enjoyed and obviously missed.

If MJ really loves bball like he always says, why does he retire, in 1999 say he's done and then come back AGAIN? unless he's an attention whore, which is also possible. while he didn't totally pull a Favre, he did somewhat after the 1999 retirement. He has no life outside of bball.

soxpride724
02-01-2009, 11:20 AM
I was bummed out when he left basketball. I was somewhat exited when he came to the Sox, but to this day I still beleive that the Bulls would have 8 peated if Jordan would have stayed.

soxfan1983
02-02-2009, 12:37 PM
If MJ really loves bball like he always says, why does he retire, in 1999 say he's done and then come back AGAIN? unless he's an attention whore, which is also possible. while he didn't totally pull a Favre, he did somewhat after the 1999 retirement. He has no life outside of bball.

After the 98 season - Jerry didn't want to pay Phil Jackson (hm... sounds kind of familiar here...). MJ said that if Phil wasn't resigned, then he was going to retire again. They were a "package"... Jerry felt it was time to move on, kind of like the Packers with Farve. I think when Jordan came back several years later, he just got that itch again while being in the front offices for the Wizards. Back to the original topic, I didn't mind seeing him going to baseball during his retirement. I did however not like seeing him in a Wizards uniform. That's like seeing Farve in a Jets uni or Montana in a Chiefs uni... it's not right.