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View Full Version : Danks, Quentin, Pierzynski, Thornton on provisional WBC roster


Sockinchisox
01-19-2009, 06:53 PM
The roster stands at 46 and will be cut down to 28.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/wbc_09/roster.jsp?team=940

Edit: Dotel is also on it for the DR
(http://mlb.mlb.com/index.jsp)

esbrechtel
01-19-2009, 06:54 PM
crap....

turners56
01-19-2009, 06:55 PM
I don't like the idea of Danks being on that roster.

DirtySox
01-19-2009, 07:02 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090119&content_id=3749806&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

The obligatory Whitesox.com article about it.

Frontman
01-19-2009, 07:03 PM
Let's hope TCQ and Danks don't make the cut. Thorton might not make it due to the amount of lefties out of the pen that would rank in front of him.

turners56
01-19-2009, 07:04 PM
Dotel is also on the Dominican roster.

DirtySox
01-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Cole Armstrong is on the Canadian Roster as well. (If anyone cares.)

anewman35
01-19-2009, 07:09 PM
Before everybody starts complaining (oops, too late), it's worth noticing that the Sox actually have far fewer players possible than most organizations. See: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/wbc_09/roster.jsp?sort=mlbclub
And, yes, I know, everybody is going to get injured and it's crazy to play games that mean anything in March and blah blah blah blah blah. The point is, it affects everybody, and if somebody does get hurt or whatever, well, that's bad luck, but it's hardly unfair or anything.

SoxGirl4Life
01-19-2009, 07:21 PM
Whoa..

Metalthrasher442
01-19-2009, 07:33 PM
Something tells me that Danks knows how to handle himself. I don't think he will get injured.. same with Thornton and A.J.

rdivaldi
01-19-2009, 08:57 PM
I'm not thrilled with the idea of TCQ or Danks playing. TCQ is working off an injury and Danks is coming off a career high in innings pitched.

chisox616
01-19-2009, 09:00 PM
I'm not thrilled with the idea of TCQ or Danks playing. TCQ is working off an injury and Danks is coming off a career high in innings pitched.

I dunno, I'm pretty anxious to see how CQ hits after the injury.

ChiSoxGirl
01-19-2009, 09:00 PM
I'm not thrilled with the idea of TCQ or Danks playing. TCQ is working off an injury and Danks is coming off a career high in innings pitched.

These are my thoughts. That damn WBC....

Lip Man 1
01-19-2009, 09:01 PM
This is very bad news and I don't care how many guys are on the roster from other teams...it only takes one Sox guy to get hurt to totally **** up the season and Quentin is already coming off a broken wrist. He needs to take things slow and easy...not have to wrap up with a shorter off season for this meaningless crap.

By the way does this roster mean they have accepted an invitation? or do they still have the chance to say, "not no, but hell no..."

Lip

rdivaldi
01-19-2009, 09:02 PM
I dunno, I'm pretty anxious to see how CQ hits after the injury.

Me too, but in ST with everyone else. TCQ is one of those guys who push themselves to the max, I'd like to see him get as much time rehabbing and resting as possible.

JermaineDye05
01-19-2009, 09:05 PM
like others, I'm mostly worried about Danks and Quentin being on the roster.

SOXPHILE
01-19-2009, 09:08 PM
The WBC should be banned by the Geneva convention.

anewman35
01-19-2009, 09:13 PM
This is very bad news and I don't care how many guys are on the roster from other teams...it only takes one Sox guy to get hurt to totally **** up the season and Quentin is already coming off a broken wrist. He needs to take things slow and easy...not have to wrap up with a shorter off season for this meaningless crap.


He'd be playing spring training games anyway. Batting a few extra times a week early or something is hardly going to change anything.

And I knew full well this was going to come from you, because you feel the need to complain about the WBC every single time it comes up, but it's no different at all than any other baseball. These players aren't coming into Spring Training out-of-shape and not ready - with the possible exception of pitchers getting overworked, there's really no extra injury danger at all. And if there is any danger, it's just as likely to happen to Sizemore or Ordonez or Morneau and actually help the Sox. Personally, I couldn't care less about the WBC either way, but I really just don't understand all the hatred it gets from some people.

RockJock07
01-19-2009, 09:15 PM
Before everybody starts complaining (oops, too late), it's worth noticing that the Sox actually have far fewer players possible than most organizations. See: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/wbc_09/roster.jsp?sort=mlbclub
And, yes, I know, everybody is going to get injured and it's crazy to play games that mean anything in March and blah blah blah blah blah. The point is, it affects everybody, and if somebody does get hurt or whatever, well, that's bad luck, but it's hardly unfair or anything.

Agreed. well said, If something bad were to happen, it would just be bad luck. I guess I've never really understood why people get all worried about this. I don't care that TCQ would be in this, in fact, seeing very good, live, pitching can only help him get off to a better start for the 2009 season.

As for Danks, yes the amount of innings last season could be effect him this season however I don't see him pitching that many innings in the WBC that would make me worried.

BadBobbyJenks
01-19-2009, 09:17 PM
Sweet, I can't wait to see Quentin in action. Hopefully he doesn't slam his wrist on his bat otherwise we will have to hear about how what a disaster the WBC is...:rolleyes:

anewman35
01-19-2009, 09:18 PM
One more thing I feel needs to be pointed out - we're talking about AT MOST 10 games for each country (and for many it will be less) over a period of March 5th to March 23. If our players can't handle playing in 10 games during a 3 week period in March, then it doesn't give me much hope for the season two weeks later.

oeo
01-19-2009, 09:22 PM
like others, I'm mostly worried about Danks and Quentin being on the roster.

They would be playing in Spring Training ('meaningless games') at that time, anyway. :shrug:

Quentin is a position player and should be fine no matter what. If something happens, it will likely be of the fluke variety. Danks just needs to properly prepare, and not rush himself. The amount of innings he throws will not have an effect on the season.

Frontman
01-19-2009, 09:33 PM
He'd be playing spring training games anyway. Batting a few extra times a week early or something is hardly going to change anything.

And I knew full well this was going to come from you, because you feel the need to complain about the WBC every single time it comes up, but it's no different at all than any other baseball. These players aren't coming into Spring Training out-of-shape and not ready - with the possible exception of pitchers getting overworked, there's really no extra injury danger at all. And if there is any danger, it's just as likely to happen to Sizemore or Ordonez or Morneau and actually help the Sox. Personally, I couldn't care less about the WBC either way, but I really just don't understand all the hatred it gets from some people.

Because the braintrust behind this was the same braintrust that made the Mid-summer classic into a game that "means something."

Some might not like the terminology; but each team has money invested in their players, almost like property. The World Baseball Classic doesn't benefit the teams whose players are playing in it.

Simply put, if a player gets hurt during these stupid exhibition games (even though there is a trophy for the winner;) where is the compensation for the team who might of just lost its star talent? You can call it a fluke, you can call it a freak accident; but if we lost AJ or Quentin or Danks for any length of time due to these games; with MLB then find a replacement player to bring the Sox roster up to full-strength, footing the bill and not costing the Sox anything?

No, MLB won't. The Sox then would have to extend their resources to replace the injured player. Who was hurt during an exhibition game managed and coached by a non-Sox staff, who may or may not consider the cost of using said player for the rest of the actual season; WHICH WE PAY FOR. (Yeah, I said it.)

The WBC doesn't give anything to the White Sox and their fanbase. While it might be cool to see TCQ a few weeks early; non a damn one of us would be happy if he got hurt and cost the Sox a few games this season.

anewman35
01-19-2009, 09:39 PM
Simply put, if a player gets hurt during these stupid exhibition games (even though there is a trophy for the winner;) where is the compensation for the team who might of just lost its star talent? You can call it a fluke, you can call it a freak accident; but if we lost AJ or Quentin or Danks for any length of time due to these games; with MLB then find a replacement player to bring the Sox roster up to full-strength, footing the bill and not costing the Sox anything?

No, MLB won't. The Sox then would have to extend their resources to replace the injured player. Who was hurt during an exhibition game managed and coached by a non-Sox staff, who may or may not consider the cost of using said player for the rest of the actual season; WHICH WE PAY FOR. (Yeah, I said it.)

The WBC doesn't give anything to the White Sox and their fanbase. While it might be cool to see TCQ a few weeks early; non a damn one of us would be happy if he got hurt and cost the Sox a few games this season.

TCQ could hurt himself in spring training, in a game that means nothing to anybody (unlike the WBC, which some people do care about), and be out for the season, and MLB wouldn't give the Sox anything. TCQ could slip in his driveway tomorrow and fracture his leg and be out all year. What's the difference? Players get hurt. It happens. What's the difference what it says on his hat when it happens?

One last bit of data that, to me, proves how silly this all is: 2006 stats http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/2006/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_bat&lid=160

The player with the most at-bats had 35, the pitcher with the most IP had 17 (a Japanese pitcher I'e never heard of, second was Bartolo was 14, most had well under that). It's not like these games are at the end of December - they are DURING SPRING TRAINING. I ask again, what's the difference? Like I said, I couldn't care less who wins, but if MLB wants to make some money, why not let them?

oeo
01-19-2009, 09:40 PM
While it might be cool to see TCQ a few weeks early; non a damn one of us would be happy if he got hurt and cost the Sox a few games this season.

Ya think?

No one would be happy, except some would attribute it to bad luck, while others would bitch, whine, and ask why God hates us so much (some will likely do a bit of this no matter what).

I'm not going to lose any sleep if Sox players are playing in the WBC. I'll enjoy the competition, you can worry for me.

Bobby Thigpen
01-19-2009, 09:47 PM
The WBC is more worthless than the Pro Bowl.

Daver
01-19-2009, 09:53 PM
Holy crap, everybody panic!

This is hysterical.

KA Sox Fan
01-19-2009, 10:12 PM
While I am worried about the injury risk, I'm quite proud to see so many Sox players on the preliminary roster. At least they're getting recognized as some of the best players in America.

spiffie
01-19-2009, 11:08 PM
The WBC is more worthless than the Pro Bowl.
Really, all of this is worthless. It's adults getting worked up about millionaires hitting a ball with a stick. The idea that somehow the fact that the game is played with "Chicago" on the front of their shirt makes it more meaningful in any truly objective sense than if the shirt says "USA" is kind of silly when you think about it.

If KW isn't actively campaigning against them playing, then just relax and let them play without getting so worked up about it.

oeo
01-19-2009, 11:16 PM
Really, all of this is worthless. It's adults getting worked up about millionaires hitting a ball with a stick. The idea that somehow the fact that the game is played with "Chicago" on the front of their shirt makes it more meaningful in any truly objective sense than if the shirt says "USA" is kind of silly when you think about it.

If KW isn't actively campaigning against them playing, then just relax and let them play without getting so worked up about it.

Cue the 'you're not a real fan' statements.

:thumbsup: I live and die with this team, just like everyone here, but there are more important things to worry about.

krispoulin
01-19-2009, 11:34 PM
He'd be playing spring training games anyway. Batting a few extra times a week early or something is hardly going to change anything.

And I knew full well this was going to come from you, because you feel the need to complain about the WBC every single time it comes up, but it's no different at all than any other baseball. These players aren't coming into Spring Training out-of-shape and not ready - with the possible exception of pitchers getting overworked, there's really no extra injury danger at all. And if there is any danger, it's just as likely to happen to Sizemore or Ordonez or Morneau and actually help the Sox. Personally, I couldn't care less about the WBC either way, but I really just don't understand all the hatred it gets from some people.



I just wanted to second this, but add that I think the WBC is a lot of fun for someone who is simply a fan of the game. A lot of people here say these games don't mean anything, but that is entirely subjective. OK, it doesn't mean anything to you. It certainly means something to the guys on the field, or they wouldn't be out their doing it. And it certainly means something to the thousands of fans who attended the last WBC and made tons of noise supporting their home or native countries.

Personally, I think it's exciting to get to watch practically MLB-quality ballgames a month earlier in the year than normally. This may be a long shot, but I'm sincerely hoping that someday the WBC means as much to all of us here as the World Cup of soccer does to the rest of the world.

hi im skot
01-19-2009, 11:55 PM
Crazy thought, but maybe this could all be, you know, enjoyable, and possibly be good for these guys.

:shrug:

EuroSox35
01-20-2009, 02:59 AM
AJ seems like the type that would accept. The others, no clue. I'm not as worried about Quentin participating.

But Danks, Thorton, Dotel, any pitcher and I would be a little worried. Without looking at stats both pen guys felt very overused last year, and we know about the stage Danks is at. It's not like they'll be throwing a lot of innings, but ST is big for getting the kinks out and going through the motions/routine for a pitcher. You'd think they'd use a little more effort facing someone like Ortiz in a game like this compared to some minor leaguer or when trying out a new pitch.

It seems like in 06, some pitchers had injuries or off years in the year they pitched in the WBC, even if they didn't pitch a lot of innings. I also remember Freddy saying he'd never do it again (and that was also that weird offseason where he transformed into this guy who lost his fastball out of nowhere, had to completely change a successful style and has been battling injuries since. Related? Maybe not, but I'm very cynical).

DumpJerry
01-20-2009, 06:52 AM
One of our guys could break his arm getting out of bed in morning. Maybe we should fret over the fact that they sleep in beds.

I'm surprised none of out FOBAs have nominated Jerry Owens to be on the roster since the WBC is more dangerous than skydiving without a chute......

kittle42
01-20-2009, 08:09 AM
One of our guys could break his arm getting out of bed in morning. Maybe we should fret over the fact that they sleep in beds.

I'm surprised none of out FOBAs have nominated Jerry Owens to be on the roster since the WBC is more dangerous than skydiving without a chute......

Well, they're torn between having Owens play for injury purposes, or having Anderson play because Ozzie never gives him a fair shot on the Sox. It's quite the dilemma for them.

cws05champ
01-20-2009, 08:21 AM
At least we know Alexei won't play for Cuba! :D:

esbrechtel
01-20-2009, 08:21 AM
Im concerned about AJ since we have no back up catcher and Quentin because he has yet to play 162 without being injured....

Danks and Thornton I really don't mind....

chisox12
01-20-2009, 08:23 AM
I'm not a big fan of this. This WBC is a waste of time........

oeo
01-20-2009, 08:23 AM
I just wanted to second this, but add that I think the WBC is a lot of fun for someone who is simply a fan of the game. A lot of people here say these games don't mean anything, but that is entirely subjective. OK, it doesn't mean anything to you. It certainly means something to the guys on the field, or they wouldn't be out their doing it. And it certainly means something to the thousands of fans who attended the last WBC and made tons of noise supporting their home or native countries.

Personally, I think it's exciting to get to watch practically MLB-quality ballgames a month earlier in the year than normally. This may be a long shot, but I'm sincerely hoping that someday the WBC means as much to all of us here as the World Cup of soccer does to the rest of the world.

If most people have the attitudes of the people here, then that is never going to happen. Instead, it will probably end up being a flop.

Is it that difficult to embrace new things?

Im concerned about AJ since we have no back up catcher and Quentin because he has yet to play 162 without being injured....

Danks and Thornton I really don't mind....

AJ is solid as a rock, always has been, and Quentin had a couple of fluke injuries. :shrug:

I'm not a big fan of this. This WBC is a waste of time........

How so?

All the worry warts have their excuse, but it obviously generated enough money last time for them to have a second one. So how is it a waste of time?

PopularGrover
01-20-2009, 08:25 AM
Congratulations to AJ, Thornton, TCQ, and Danks. I look forward to possibly seeing them represent the United States.

Chez
01-20-2009, 08:44 AM
I think all players and members of the Sox organization should be encased in bubble wrap the moment the season ends, sentenced to spend the off season in a monitored hotel suite (with only a physician, nutritionist, chef, personal trainer, security guard and, maybe, the players' family allowed access). Players will be unwrapped on the first day of Spring Training. Baseball players playing baseball in the WBC? Absurd.

doublem23
01-20-2009, 08:53 AM
I'm not worried about position players playing extra games in the WBC, but there is still concern about pitchers... Not too much to fall back on, but there was some correlation between guys pitching in the WBC and guys breaking down the following season. Hopefully since this is the 2nd time around, teams will be better equipped to handle their pitchers. That said, it'd be awesome to get a Danks or Quentin USA jersey.

http://spln.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-4900957reg.jpg

esbrechtel
01-20-2009, 08:55 AM
I'm not worried about position players playing extra games in the WBC, but there is still concern about pitchers... Not too much to fall back on, but there was some correlation between guys pitching in the WBC and guys breaking down the following season. Hopefully since this is the 2nd time around, teams will be better equipped to handle their pitchers. That said, it'd be awesome to get a Danks or Quentin USA jersey.

http://spln.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-4900957reg.jpg

Funny, cuz that is what I also thought.....I've been wanting to get a Danks jersey for awhile now this gives me a perfect excuse!


and as for AJ being a "rock" he hit .243 at the end of the season last year. I wouldn't mind having a backup catcher to spell AJ during the long regular season....

oeo
01-20-2009, 09:05 AM
and as for AJ being a "rock" he hit .243 at the end of the season last year.

I thought you were referring to the possibility of AJ getting hurt, which is why I called him a rock. He doesn't get hurt, knock on wood.

AJ likely wouldn't see much playing time, so I don't see how much it would hurt his performance in the regular season, in terms of fatigue.

esbrechtel
01-20-2009, 09:37 AM
I was more worried about fatigue...that said who knows how much he will play and if it will even be less games compared to what he would do in ST...

BadBobbyJenks
01-20-2009, 10:05 AM
Crazy thought, but maybe this could all be, you know, enjoyable, and possibly be good for these guys.

:shrug:


Don't you bring these crazy ideas to this discussion, the WBC is evil.

Jim Shorts
01-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Screaming: No, No, No, No, Noooooooooo.

-Kayne West

MISoxfan
01-20-2009, 11:33 AM
I really enjoy the WBC.

Paulwny
01-20-2009, 11:33 AM
One negative, this gives less time for AJ to become familiar with the pitches/movement of any of the new sox pitchers.

soltrain21
01-20-2009, 11:45 AM
Grumble grumble I hate everything.

munchman33
01-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Mark me in the column excited that our guys are gonna be there. I'm not going to get up in arms for players playing in games during the offseason. Especially in a tournament that monitors innings that pitchers can throw. Winter league baseball is WAY worse, and notbody gives a **** about that.

Frontman
01-20-2009, 05:04 PM
The WBC is more worthless than the Pro Bowl.

Thank you. As cool as it would be to see Lance Briggs play in that, if he screwed his knee up and missed the 2009 season; people will be upset about that.

Frontman
01-20-2009, 05:07 PM
TCQ could hurt himself in spring training, in a game that means nothing to anybody (unlike the WBC, which some people do care about), and be out for the season, and MLB wouldn't give the Sox anything. TCQ could slip in his driveway tomorrow and fracture his leg and be out all year. What's the difference? Players get hurt. It happens. What's the difference what it says on his hat when it happens?

One last bit of data that, to me, proves how silly this all is: 2006 stats http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/2006/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_bat&lid=160

The player with the most at-bats had 35, the pitcher with the most IP had 17 (a Japanese pitcher I'e never heard of, second was Bartolo was 14, most had well under that). It's not like these games are at the end of December - they are DURING SPRING TRAINING. I ask again, what's the difference? Like I said, I couldn't care less who wins, but if MLB wants to make some money, why not let them?

Spring training is part of the player's usual season duties. If they get hurt doing that, fine. Playing in a "classic" that means NOTHING to MLB other than something for Selig to act as if he accomplished something great and getting hurt?

Not the same thing.

Jim Shorts
01-20-2009, 05:07 PM
Mark me in the column excited that our guys are gonna be there. I'm not going to get up in arms for players playing in games during the offseason. Especially in a tournament that monitors innings that pitchers can throw. Winter league baseball is WAY worse, and notbody gives a **** about that.

Yeah! Because AJ's knees are bionic. That cat needs the off season rest.

anewman35
01-20-2009, 06:02 PM
Spring training is part of the player's usual season duties. If they get hurt doing that, fine. Playing in a "classic" that means NOTHING to MLB other than something for Selig to act as if he accomplished something great and getting hurt?

Not the same thing.

They're playing baseball games in spring, before the regular season, and that is getting them prepared for the regular season. How is that not the same thing? They're going to PLAY BASEBALL GAMES. Exactly the same thing they do all year, and what they would have been doing anyway. How is this somehow risky?

munchman33
01-20-2009, 06:07 PM
Yeah! Because AJ's knees are bionic. That cat needs the off season rest.

My point is if A.J. went off to Venezuela to play winter ball and called it a warm up, there wouldn't be this commotion.

In fact, no one here has ever complained about our guys playing winter ball. Not once. The only time I've ever heard complaints were when guys DIDN'T play.

No, people are against the WBC for their own reasons. The injury thing is a lame excuse. If you think the tournament is stupid in premise, that's your opinion. But, obviously, a lot of fans (and more importantly players) do not share your opinion.

Frontman
01-20-2009, 06:10 PM
They're playing baseball games in spring, before the regular season, and that is getting them prepared for the regular season. How is that not the same thing? They're going to PLAY BASEBALL GAMES. Exactly the same thing they do all year, and what they would have been doing anyway. How is this somehow risky?

Again, its not on the Sox dime. If they were spring training games with the Sox staff around said player, issues can be addressed if they arise.

And yes, it might be lame; but its one of the issues I don't like about the WBC.

munchman33
01-20-2009, 06:16 PM
Again, its not on the Sox dime. If they were spring training games with the Sox staff around said player, issues can be addressed if they arise.

And yes, it might be lame; but its one of the issues I don't like about the WBC.

No, on this issue you're completely off base. The tournament is an MLB tournament, and their are numerous doctors and trainers available. It's a million times better than the completely accepted winter league, where medical treatment isn't nearly as good or readily available.

anewman35
01-20-2009, 06:17 PM
Again, its not on the Sox dime. If they were spring training games with the Sox staff around said player, issues can be addressed if they arise.

And yes, it might be lame; but its one of the issues I don't like about the WBC.

These aren't some fly-by-night games with some ad-hoc staff. The first round is in Rogers Centre, obviously a MLB quality facility. Many of the managers and coaches are people with expierence in MLB. I don't know who the trainers are, but I'm sure they're fine. Nobody has any interest in getting people hurt. As somebody else pointed out, nobody ever seems to complain about winter ball, which seems a lot riskier than 2 weeks of games in Toronto and San Diego and Miami and LA could ever be. Like it or not, this IS part of MLB now, and the complaints just seem sillier every time I read them. In fact, I think this is my last post on this, some people just like to complain over anything.

soxinem1
01-20-2009, 06:20 PM
This is very bad news and I don't care how many guys are on the roster from other teams...it only takes one Sox guy to get hurt to totally **** up the season and Quentin is already coming off a broken wrist. He needs to take things slow and easy...not have to wrap up with a shorter off season for this meaningless crap.

By the way does this roster mean they have accepted an invitation? or do they still have the chance to say, "not no, but hell no..."

Lip

I'm lukewarm towards the idea of these guys being on the roster, but the difference between 2006 and 2009 is that we did not go as far in the playoffs. Therefore, the lower games played and pitched totals will probably help.

Arm injuries happen. If they are going to get hurt, chances are it's going to happen pitching somewhere, be it ST, WBC or the regular season.

Hitters and regular fielders are a little different story. A HBP, pulled hammy on a crappy field, collision at the plate, etc.

Players barnstormed a bunch at one time. Babe Ruth and many players from his era would play 30-40 games in the off-season, and Latin players would play a whole slate of Winter Ball, and rarely were there any issues. The money thing has made this a very sensitive issue.

Frontman
01-20-2009, 06:42 PM
No, on this issue you're completely off base. The tournament is an MLB tournament, and their are numerous doctors and trainers available. It's a million times better than the completely accepted winter league, where medical treatment isn't nearly as good or readily available.

Please point out to me where I think winter ball is a good idea?

Oh wait, I DON'T think that's a good idea either.

But let's switch gears. These guys are competitors. While they might want to win spring training games; they know the point is to get their work in. The WBC is an actual competition, and to win, players and coaches will take risks that are not normally associated with an exhibition game. Ozzie wouldn't risk getting Danks hurt by extending him in a ST game. But if advancing hinges on Danks continuing on in a WBC game, think the manager would keep that in mind; or would he rather win?

The same can be said for the players themselves. They might think "I'll play through it, this is important" when at the end of the 2009 season, nobody will care who won the WBC.

Who won it four years ago? Who was the starting pitcher of the deciding game? Can anyone tell me without googling/MLB/searching for the answer?

doublem23
01-20-2009, 06:52 PM
Who won it four years ago? Who was the starting pitcher of the deciding game? Can anyone tell me without googling/MLB/searching for the answer?

Japan & Dice-K

Paulwny
01-20-2009, 07:58 PM
[quote=Frontman;2142073]
But let's switch gears. These guys are competitors. While they might want to win spring training games; they know the point is to get their work in. The WBC is an actual competition, and to win, players and coaches will take risks that are not normally associated with an exhibition game. Ozzie wouldn't risk getting Danks hurt by extending him in a ST game. But if advancing hinges on Danks continuing on in a WBC game, think the manager would keep that in mind; or would he rather win? quote]


Agree, these games are not the same as ST games. There is some pride/country involved and therefore more intensity.
An outfielder may attempt a diving catch or run into a wall to catch a ball.
In ST games the player may think twice about such an attempt.

jabrch
01-20-2009, 08:22 PM
Is it that difficult to embrace new things?

Good new things are easily embraced. Bad new things still suck. And others are in the middle. I group WBC in the middle. I'd never invest myself in it - but I see the attraction. To me, the WBC is an exhibition - same as the olympics. And I don't personally get into it - since our best team isn't playing.

spiffie
01-20-2009, 08:28 PM
I can only imagine if everyone here were Premier League fans. "How could our guys go play in the World Cup?! What if they get hurt. They're getting paid by Arsenal, not their country's team!"

DaveFeelsRight
01-20-2009, 08:53 PM
there were some players in 06 that played in the WBC that didnt suffer

rdivaldi
01-20-2009, 09:27 PM
There are definitely quality arguments for both sides in this thread, but I personally still stand squarely in the anti-WBC camp. I especially oppose the idea of Danks pitching. Let's face it, pitching is an especially taxing and damaging activity. When ST starts, guys are throwing fastball after fastball, getting loose and working on their mechanics. The WBC is a completely different animal, the guys are in there using their complete arsenal and going much harder than they would be in ST. I just don't like it, especially with a young guy like Danks coming off a career high in innings pitched, which included two playoff games.

Frontman
01-20-2009, 09:38 PM
I can only imagine if everyone here were Premier League fans. "How could our guys go play in the World Cup?! What if they get hurt. They're getting paid by Arsenal, not their country's team!"

"You did not just bring in soccer to the discussion did you? Maybe you haven't heard, but on this side of the "Big Pond" soccer just doesn't cut it. The reason that we don't worry about American soccer players getting hurt during the World Cup is the same reason we don't show up when they're playing games or we have to hunt to find a game on VS. That's not how us chest-thumping Americans roll.

"Simply put, we don't care about our soccer players like we do our boys of summer. If a soccer player breaks leg and no one is in stands when happens, does anyone actually hear him cry out in pain?"
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/motion/2007/1002/hu_071002jimrome.jpg

munchman33
01-20-2009, 11:41 PM
Please point out to me where I think winter ball is a good idea?



That's EXACTLY the point. I can't, because NOBODY HAD AN OPINION ON IT. It's always been something guys just decided to do. Nobody gave a rats ass. Now all of a sudden a new tournament comes along that's televised and you people scream bloody ****ing murder. Sorry, I'm not buying it. It wasn't an issue for anyone here before, so playing in the off-season is obviously not the culprit. It's something else.

Frontman
01-21-2009, 07:05 AM
That's EXACTLY the point. I can't, because NOBODY HAD AN OPINION ON IT. It's always been something guys just decided to do. Nobody gave a rats ass. Now all of a sudden a new tournament comes along that's televised and you people scream bloody ****ing murder. Sorry, I'm not buying it. It wasn't an issue for anyone here before, so playing in the off-season is obviously not the culprit. It's something else.

So, you're a mind-reader now?

Just because I don't immediately post up my thoughts doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on something.

The difference is winter ball has been going on for a long time; hard to get the point across that its a bad idea. But, the WBC is relatively new; if enough people show their displeasure in it, if enough folks don't tune in, MLB might realize it isn't as great of an idea as Selig thinks it is.

esbrechtel
01-21-2009, 07:56 AM
I've never seen Frontman get so worked up....he is usually one of the calm ones!

:popcorn:

central44
01-21-2009, 08:27 AM
I guess I just don't understand why the WBC has to be played in spring, right before the upcoming season. I know I probably sound naive as hell, but why not play it right after the World Series?

munchman33
01-21-2009, 09:06 AM
So, you're a mind-reader now?

Just because I don't immediately post up my thoughts doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on something.

The difference is winter ball has been going on for a long time; hard to get the point across that its a bad idea. But, the WBC is relatively new; if enough people show their displeasure in it, if enough folks don't tune in, MLB might realize it isn't as great of an idea as Selig thinks it is.

You're exactly right. That's the only difference. Actually, that's the only NEGATIVE difference. That it's new. Which is hardly a negative at all.

Now, on the other hand, there are plenty of positives versus winter ball. Like MLB involvement, better facilities, better medical care, rules in place to avoid overuse...

If the WBC was every year and MLB players did that instead of winter ball, that would be a good thing.

Scottiehaswheels
01-21-2009, 09:32 AM
I just find it funny that AJ is going to be part of the team. Apparently, having most of America hate him isn't enough. :redneck

Iwritecode
01-21-2009, 09:42 AM
I think all players and members of the Sox organization should be encased in bubble wrap the moment the season ends, sentenced to spend the off season in a monitored hotel suite (with only a physician, nutritionist, chef, personal trainer, security guard and, maybe, the players' family allowed access). Players will be unwrapped on the first day of Spring Training. Baseball players playing baseball in the WBC? Absurd.

First of all:

:tealtutor:

Second:

:rolling:

khan
01-21-2009, 10:30 AM
I can only imagine if everyone here were Premier League fans. "How could our guys go play in the World Cup?! What if they get hurt. They're getting paid by Arsenal, not their country's team!"

1st, you're wrong. In Soccer, BOTH a player's club AND their country's team pay the players, unlike in the WBC, where only the clubs pay the players.

2nd, FIFA governs the entirety of the sport, and mandates that leagues make every player available to their national teams.

3rd, FIFA [which organizes every international competition, unlike the WBC, which is run by a league] has mandates in place to limit overusage injuries, and to organize a proper competition.

spiffie
01-21-2009, 10:46 AM
1st, you're wrong. In Soccer, BOTH a player's club AND their country's team pay the players, unlike in the WBC, where only the clubs pay the players.

2nd, FIFA governs the entirety of the sport, and mandates that leagues make every player available to their national teams.

3rd, FIFA [which organizes every international competition, unlike the WBC, which is run by a league] has mandates in place to limit overusage injuries, and to organize a proper competition.
1. The national team is not paying the huge salaries. Or the giant transfer fees. Think Robinho's $50 million or so transfer fee is being split between Man City and the Brazilian national team? The investments by the club team dwarf what payments the national teams are putting out.

2. It would only take one league to challenge that for the whole thing to begin to fray. Hell, one team.

3. The WBC has mandates in place to limit overusage as well. There are pitch count limits for the tournament.

khan
01-21-2009, 11:10 AM
1. The national team is not paying the huge salaries.
I don't know, $1M+ to win the World Cup is pretty good work for a player. Some national teams [Brazil, Germany, England, Italy, Argentina] offer even higher incentives for winning it all. Given that the World Cup is ~3 weeks or so of competition, that's pretty good bread. That's also a higher rate of pay for most players recieve when compared to their club wages over a course of a year.

2. It would only take one league to challenge that for the whole thing to begin to fray. Hell, one team.
Yeah, in 75+ years FIFA's been worried about this happening. :rolleyes:

None of the bigger clubs nor leagues have any interest in making FIFA "fray."

3. The WBC has mandates in place to limit overusage as well. There are pitch count limits for the tournament.
But the WBC can not mandate the degree of competition, or how hard the players play. In Spring Training or Winter Ball the players are just getting their work in. In the WBC, a competitor may be tempted to overexert himself in a timeframe when he should just be rounding himself into shape.

All in all, I don't like having our players play in the WBC, particularly the pitchers. I don't care about the WBC, other than to scout other national teams. I won't watch a pitch of it, and I believe that the overwhelming majority of MLB fans won't, either. The WBC will never be nearly as important to international competition as the World Cup of soccer, or, for that matter, the olympics.

Iwritecode
01-21-2009, 11:22 AM
In the WBC, a competitor may be tempted to overexert himself in a timeframe when he should just be rounding himself into shape.

What's stopping them from doing that in Spring Training or Winter ball?

oeo
01-21-2009, 11:28 AM
What's stopping them from doing that in Spring Training or Winter ball?

Is it just me, or are baseball players treated like the biggest babies in sports? Alright, I can understand a pitcher 'pushing it too much' too early, which is why they need to take proper preparation and start getting ready earlier. They shouldn't be rushing themselves.

As for position players, they should already be in shape, so there shouldn't be a point where they're pushing themselves too hard. I think this is a better way to get ready for the season, as they will be competing and playing in games that matter. That will prepare them more than any Spring Training game.

spiffie
01-21-2009, 11:35 AM
I don't know, $1M+ to win the World Cup is pretty good work for a player. Some national teams [Brazil, Germany, England, Italy, Argentina] offer even higher incentives for winning it all. Given that the World Cup is ~3 weeks or so of competition, that's pretty good bread. That's also a higher rate of pay for most players recieve when compared to their club wages over a course of a year.


Yeah, in 75+ years FIFA's been worried about this happening. :rolleyes:

None of the bigger clubs nor leagues have any interest in making FIFA "fray."


But the WBC can not mandate the degree of competition, or how hard the players play. In Spring Training or Winter Ball the players are just getting their work in. In the WBC, a competitor may be tempted to overexert himself in a timeframe when he should just be rounding himself into shape.

All in all, I don't like having our players play in the WBC, particularly the pitchers. I don't care about the WBC, other than to scout other national teams. I won't watch a pitch of it, and I believe that the overwhelming majority of MLB fans won't, either. The WBC will never be nearly as important to international competition as the World Cup of soccer, or, for that matter, the olympics.
The largest bonus offered in 2006 was by Spain with 570,000 Euros. The Italian team received 250,000 Euros each. So appx. $315,000 at the time. Certainly nothing to sneeze at, but for the top players hardly anything worth jeopardizing their club careers for.

khan
01-21-2009, 11:53 AM
The largest bonus offered in 2006 was by Spain with 570,000 Euros. The Italian team received 250,000 Euros each. So appx. $315,000 at the time. Certainly nothing to sneeze at, but for the top players hardly anything worth jeopardizing their club careers for.
Actually, the exchange rate in 2006 was ~$1.25/1 euro, hence ~$712K or so for Spain. From my information, Brazil offered $2M in 2006, Argentina $1.5M to win in 2006. Mind you, even the 250,000 Euros you report is given for a ~3 week tournament.

In addition, FIFA itself gives bonuses to teams, depending on their performances.

On top of THAT, shoe manufacturers, such as Nike, Addidas, Puma, and Reebok offered as much as $6M to teams [divided between the players] for wins in the World Cup. This does not include individual players' sponsorship deals, which routinely include bonuses for individual and team performances at international competitions.

All in all, there is FAR more incentive to the players in the FIFA world cup than in the WBC.

By comparison, the bonuses to win the WBC in 2006:
US: $0
Japan: I don't have the information
Dominican Republic: I don't have the information
South Korea: $0
Australia: $0
Italy: $0
China: $0
Taiwan: $0
Canada: $0
Mexicao: $0
South Africa: $0
Cuba: I don't have the information
Netherlands: $0
Panama: I don't know.
Puerto Rico: $0
Venezuela: I don't know.

SBSoxFan
01-21-2009, 12:44 PM
The WBC is more worthless than the Pro Bowl.

Thank you. As cool as it would be to see Lance Briggs play in that, if he screwed his knee up and missed the 2009 season; people will be upset about that.

Do you feel that way about all-star games in general?

doublem23
01-21-2009, 12:46 PM
Did Nike, Puma, or other companies give out bonuses for playing well in the World Cup? Did national teams always have financial bonuses for players if they won? Maybe the World Cup should have shut down in the first few years, rather than grow into the world's biggest sports tournament? :dunno:

That said, 47% of the total earnings from the '06 WBC was divided amongst the teams as prize money. And several players (including our own Alexei Ramirez or Daisuke Matsuzaka) became well-paid players in America based on their performance in the WBC.

khan
01-21-2009, 01:04 PM
Did Nike, Puma, or other companies give out bonuses for playing well in the World Cup?
Yes. The footwear companies scale the bonuses proportionally to team and individual player performance. The more your team wins, the more you earn. The better a player plays, the more money Nike or Puma or Addidas or Reebok pay the player.

Did national teams always have financial bonuses for players if they won?
Yes. In fact, the World Cup was started only because the olympics insisted on amateurs, while FIFA wanted to allow professionals.

Maybe the World Cup should have shut down in the first few years, rather than grow into the world's biggest sports tournament? :dunno:
I don't know, it seems to have worked out fine. But there are a few elements to it that make it a superior international competition to anything that MLB could ever hope to put together.

That said, 47% of the total earnings from the '06 WBC was divided amongst the teams as prize money.
That's good. I'm sure the 18,900 average attendance and middling TV ratings lined the players' pockets.

And several players (including our own Alexei Ramirez or Daisuke Matsuzaka) became well-paid players in America based on their performance in the WBC.
And this is the only worthwhile byproduct of the WBC. Everything else is window dressing.

doublem23
01-21-2009, 02:28 PM
And this is the only worthwhile byproduct of the WBC. Everything else is window dressing.

Then quit your ****ing bitching. These are adults, if they want to play in the WBC, they will. If they don't, they won't.

Sheesh.

BadBobbyJenks
01-21-2009, 02:45 PM
Interesting that we call out "White Sox Army" to get our boys into the All Star Game every season, which I am pretty sure is a made for tv spectacle and meaningless (oh yeah homefield advantage now) but get in line to bitch about the WBC.

Is the era of everything sucks ever going to go away?

Frontman
01-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Do you feel that way about all-star games in general?

Actually, yeah. The All-star game was to feature baseball at the World Exposition here in Chicago. I do believe the world is already familiar with baseball; no need to continue to showcase the talent.

munchman33
01-21-2009, 03:39 PM
Actually, yeah. The All-star game was to feature baseball at the World Exposition here in Chicago. I do believe the world is already familiar with baseball; no need to continue to showcase the talent.

Wow. Just wow.

You're right. Bringing together the best collection of talent from a sport serves no purpose. Children hate it, sponsors flee at the sight, and players despise it so much they routinely keep themselves and their families as far away from it as possible.

Frontman
01-21-2009, 05:17 PM
Wow. Just wow.

You're right. Bringing together the best collection of talent from a sport serves no purpose. Children hate it, sponsors flee at the sight, and players despise it so much they routinely keep themselves and their families as far away from it as possible.

Ask Ray Fosse what he thinks of the All-Star Game and what it means to a career...

The argument for the WBC is that Selig "is bringing baseball to the world" but...

a: The world already knows the game.

b: The Olympic committee DUMPED the game from the Olympics. Now, if Selig was working to re-instate baseball to the Olympics? I could see some support for it.

munchman33
01-21-2009, 05:22 PM
Ask Ray Fosse what he thinks of the All-Star Game and what it means to a career...

The argument for the WBC is that Selig "is bringing baseball to the world" but...

a: The world already knows the game.

b: The Olympic committee DUMPED the game from the Olympics. Now, if Selig was working to re-instate baseball to the Olympics? I could see some support for it.

A: Not really, they know of it. But most of the world doesn't know or play baseball.

B. The WBC was partly created because the Olympics didn't feel baseball was worldly enough.

Frontman
01-21-2009, 05:25 PM
A: Not really, they know of it. But most of the world doesn't know or play baseball.

B. The WBC was partly created because the Olympics didn't feel baseball was worldly enough.

Yet amazingly, the Olympics still support soccer. Then again, compare the amount of revenue each game creates? Soccer isn't even close.

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But to say that someone doesn't like the WBC is stupid or has stupid arguments isn't the way to win anyone over.

I've said my peace on this, I don't really have much more to add. I think the WBC is a horrid idea, the ratings 4 years ago SUPPORT that argument. Now, 4 years ago; the talent level isn't at the level that's playing this time around. Maybe interest (and game play) might improve; but I doubt it.

Personally, I'd rather not have Sox players involved and see them ready for opening day; to go after a championship that matters.

oeo
01-21-2009, 05:29 PM
I think the WBC is a horrid idea, the ratings 4 years ago SUPPORT that argument. Now, 4 years ago; the talent level isn't at the level that's playing this time around. Maybe interest (and game play) might improve; but I doubt it.

If they feel like it's worth giving it another shot, then you're wrong. They obviously think it produced enough revenue, and will head in the right direction, or it would have been one and done, don't you think?

sox1970
01-21-2009, 05:29 PM
First WBC was in 2006, Frontman.

I agree that it's stupid. I won't watch unless Danks starts. In which case, I hope he loses but doesn't get hurt. I hope the US loses quick, and gets these guys back in Sox camp quick.

munchman33
01-21-2009, 05:30 PM
Yet amazingly, the Olympics still support soccer. Then again, compare the amount of revenue each game creates? Soccer isn't even close.

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But to say that someone doesn't like the WBC is stupid or has stupid arguments isn't the way to win anyone over.

I've said my peace on this, I don't really have much more to add. I think the WBC is a horrid idea, the ratings 4 years ago SUPPORT that argument. Now, 4 years ago; the talent level isn't at the level that's playing this time around. Maybe interest (and game play) might improve; but I doubt it.

Personally, I'd rather not have Sox players involved and see them ready for opening day; to go after a championship that matters.

Front...it isn't that you think it's stupid. It's that your reasons are kind short sighted and selfish. They're your reasons, and you can have them. But they aren't shared by the majority of players and fans.

Lip Man 1
01-21-2009, 06:23 PM
Sox 1970:

Well said.

Lip

Frontman
01-21-2009, 06:37 PM
First WBC was in 2006, Frontman.

I agree that it's stupid. I won't watch unless Danks starts. In which case, I hope he loses but doesn't get hurt. I hope the US loses quick, and gets these guys back in Sox camp quick.

You're right. I just did the math wrong (as I remember Joe Morgan's snide remark about the Sox not being the World Champs; as they didn't play Japan to win the title.)

spiffie
01-21-2009, 11:20 PM
Ask Ray Fosse what he thinks of the All-Star Game and what it means to a career...

What do you think Robin Ventura thinks of spring training?

sox1970
01-22-2009, 10:28 AM
Danks was on the Score...said he informed the WBC--"thanks, but no thanks."

Wants to be ready for the White Sox season.

Good news.

esbrechtel
01-22-2009, 10:35 AM
So much for the USA Danks jersey :dunno:

Jim Shorts
01-22-2009, 11:17 AM
Danks was on the Score...said he informed the WBC--"thanks, but no thanks."

Wants to be ready for the White Sox season.

Good news.

Agreed; good news. My concern is with AJ as he has caught a ton of innings over the past three seasons.

On that note, why didn't we effort to sign Blanco? Stellar back up.

Mickster
01-22-2009, 11:37 AM
Yet amazingly, the Olympics still support soccer. Then again, compare the amount of revenue each game creates? Soccer isn't even close.

Soccer isn't even close in the United States. Soccer creates insane amounts of revenue. In fact, Manchester United was the first professional sports team to sell for more than one billion dollars. FC Barcelona and Real Madrid are valued upwards of one billion dollars, as well. These values are not created without massive revenue.

Lip Man 1
01-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Good news with Danks' answer. That's one down and three to go (four if you count Dotel).

Lip

PopularGrover
01-22-2009, 01:48 PM
First WBC was in 2006, Frontman.

I agree that it's stupid. I won't watch unless Danks starts. In which case, I hope he loses but doesn't get hurt. I hope the US loses quick, and gets these guys back in Sox camp quick.

Well that is the patriotic spirit!

Chez
01-22-2009, 01:58 PM
Ask Ray Fosse what he thinks of the All-Star Game and what it means to a career...


I can think of two players who have suffered career altering injuries in an ASG -- Fosse and Dizzy Dean. There are probably a hundred players who have suffered serious injuries in non-baseball related activities. I just don't see the big deal of letting baseball players play baseball during a time (March) when they normally play baseball.

esbrechtel
01-22-2009, 02:04 PM
Well that is the patriotic spirit!

:welcome: and :tealtutor:

esbrechtel
01-22-2009, 02:05 PM
and lastly....
:tomatoaward

sox1970
01-22-2009, 02:37 PM
Well that is the patriotic spirit!

Just because they'll be wearing USA on their uniforms doesn't mean I find national pride in a baseball team.

I find pride in our country more for other things; and that our country already has a baseball league that has the best players in the world.

This tournament is a waste of time, but if you or anyone else likes it, knock yourself out. I won't be watching.

FedEx227
01-22-2009, 03:59 PM
I'll watch just to see international stars. I could care less if American wins one or two games, I'm just interested in seeing the players from Japan and a few of the bright prospects from the other nations.

PopularGrover
01-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Just because they'll be wearing USA on their uniforms doesn't mean I find national pride in a baseball team.

I find pride in our country more for other things; and that our country already has a baseball league that has the best players in the world.

This tournament is a waste of time, but if you or anyone else likes it, knock yourself out. I won't be watching.

I'm not too suprised to hear you are not interested in the WBC itself, it is evident by reading this board that many share your sentiment. I was suprised to hear that there are those that would prefer to see the United States lose.

I might not be interested in the sport of curling, and I highly doubt I'd use any time to watch it, but I certainly would never hope to see the United States lose in that sport or any other event.

I suppose we simply have different philosophies regarding this issue.

EndemicSox
01-22-2009, 04:12 PM
I've made it known before, but I love this event and its potential, especially now that olympic baseball is a thing of the past. Eventually, I see MLB along with other professional baseball leagues, accommodating the event by working out something that allows the countries to compete in July...or even more logical, they could follow soccer's lead and have the competition take place over a few months. One game every two weeks or isn't much of strain on anyone, as I don't forsee Danks or Burls having a problem with an additional 10-20 innings of international competition over the next twelve years.

The WBC is more worthless than the Pro Bowl.


On a related side-note, I was working in Korea and Japan during the '06 event, and suffice to say, the WBC appeared to be a fairly big deal to the fans of the Japanese and Korean national teams, not to mention the actual players on each side. I don't think the atmosphere was much different in the few other countries that also had the ability to lay claim to the closest thing we now have to a "World Champion".

An all-star game in American football is worthless due to the nature of the sport, but the WBC is still in its infancy, and if 2006 is any indication, the "worthless" tag will soon be a thing of the past, well, to most of us at least!

I just wanted to second this, but add that I think the WBC is a lot of fun for someone who is simply a fan of the game. A lot of people here say these games don't mean anything, but that is entirely subjective. OK, it doesn't mean anything to you. It certainly means something to the guys on the field, or they wouldn't be out their doing it. And it certainly means something to the thousands of fans who attended the last WBC and made tons of noise supporting their home or native countries.

Personally, I think it's exciting to get to watch practically MLB-quality ballgames a month earlier in the year than normally. This may be a long shot, but I'm sincerely hoping that someday the WBC means as much to all of us here as the World Cup of soccer does to the rest of the world.

Agreed!

I love the game of baseball, and I love the fact that its worldwide popularity is growing. We all love MLB, but I can see myself enjoying this event(especially if the USA is up to the challenge this time around) just as much as any playoff baseball game(outside of the White Sox playing in October, of course!). Quite simply, is USA-baseball still the king of the hill? I expect this event to help decide just that once all of the many kinks are worked out down the line.

Whenever Yu Darvish is pitching, I will be glued to the TV. I've seen videos of that kid pitch and **** does he have unreal stuff.

As should all fans of baseball, I feel pretty confident that seven years down the road, Yu Darvish will be an ace(hopefully for our White Sox), or pretty damn close to one. Just watch this video...pretty sick "stuff" 'eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vu9tg_46M8&feature=related

Sockinchisox
01-22-2009, 04:14 PM
I'll watch just to see international stars. I could care less if American wins one or two games, I'm just interested in seeing the players from Japan and a few of the bright prospects from the other nations.

Whenever Yu Darvish is pitching, I will be glued to the TV. I've seen videos of that kid pitch and **** does he have unreal stuff.

jabrch
01-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Danks was on the Score...said he informed the WBC--"thanks, but no thanks."

Wants to be ready for the White Sox season.

Good news.


I'm wondering why he didn't say, Thanks - but no Danks...

hi im skot
01-22-2009, 04:57 PM
I'm wondering why he didn't say, Thanks - but no Danks...


www.instantrimshot.com

whitesox901
01-22-2009, 08:04 PM
i'm wondering why he didn't say, thanks - but no danks...

:D:


Glad he said no

swish
01-22-2009, 08:22 PM
here is the sox take on it...

Danks wants out, Thorton wants in


http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090122&content_id=3763756&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip Man 1
01-23-2009, 10:19 AM
"My first obligation is to the White Sox."

Well said by Danks...VERY well said.

Lip

voodoochile
01-23-2009, 02:13 PM
Actually, the exchange rate in 2006 was ~$1.25/1 euro, hence ~$712K or so for Spain. From my information, Brazil offered $2M in 2006, Argentina $1.5M to win in 2006. Mind you, even the 250,000 Euros you report is given for a ~3 week tournament.

In addition, FIFA itself gives bonuses to teams, depending on their performances.

On top of THAT, shoe manufacturers, such as Nike, Addidas, Puma, and Reebok offered as much as $6M to teams [divided between the players] for wins in the World Cup. This does not include individual players' sponsorship deals, which routinely include bonuses for individual and team performances at international competitions.

All in all, there is FAR more incentive to the players in the FIFA world cup than in the WBC.

By comparison, the bonuses to win the WBC in 2006:
US: $0
Japan: I don't have the information
Dominican Republic: I don't have the information
South Korea: $0
Australia: $0
Italy: $0
China: $0
Taiwan: $0
Canada: $0
Mexicao: $0
South Africa: $0
Cuba: I don't have the information
Netherlands: $0
Panama: I don't know.
Puerto Rico: $0
Venezuela: I don't know.

Just to be clear, winning the World Cup is a LOT more work than 3 weeks of playing games in the summer. Qualifying takes what two years? There are preliminary qualifying games then qualifying games then there are the 3 weeks of games. Players who commit to the WC commit years of effort to their country's team. No it doesn't interfere with their professional career, but it's a lot more work than some make it seem.

voodoochile
01-23-2009, 02:16 PM
Carl's take on it...

http://smellslikemascot.blogspot.com/

Lip Man 1
01-24-2009, 06:44 PM
Required reading for everyone. Especially Phil Rogers after his latest column at Tribune.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3857199&name=gammons_peter

Lip

Lip Man 1
01-24-2009, 06:46 PM
And here is Phil's musings:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090124-world-baseball-classic-cubs-sox-rogers,0,2690841.column

:rolleyes:

Lip

areilly
01-24-2009, 10:39 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: whatever these players choose to do, they've made the right choice.

I look forward to watching the WBC for the same reasons so many on this board don't. Whatever. Viva el beisbol!

munchman33
01-25-2009, 12:09 AM
And here is Phil's musings:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090124-world-baseball-classic-cubs-sox-rogers,0,2690841.column

:rolleyes:

Lip

:rolleyes: to your :rolleyes:.

Don't forget you're in the minority of fan, writer, and player thinking on the issue of off-season baseball leagues. And MLB and MLBPA are both 100% behind this particular event.

CubKilla
01-25-2009, 12:33 AM
And MLB and MLBPA are both 100% behind this particular event.

They have to be since the Olympics canned baseball as an event.

munchman33
01-25-2009, 12:47 AM
They have to be since the Olympics canned baseball as an event.

The players still voted unanimously for the event. The U.S. team still have more than quota from the 40 person provisional roster stay aboard and had to turn people down. The guys sitting out are by far the exception, and they should not be lauded or criticized. It's their choice either way.

Lip Man 1
01-25-2009, 11:37 AM
Munchman:

Not scientific but it makes the point.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090124-wbcpoll,0,5532699,post.poll

Lip

Lip Man 1
01-25-2009, 11:40 AM
Also Munch... sure the players voted for it, the union did it in order to get future concessions. The MLBPA isn't stupid.

The players also start dropping out like flies don't they as per Phil's column.

So saying "they voted for it" is meaningless since the "stars" don't bother to play in it.

Look I'm all for the farce as long as not one single, solitary member of the White Sox 40 man roster plays one inning, throws one pitch or swings a single bat. If they want to take the Sox minor leaguer players...no problem, most of them aren't any good anyway!

Lip

munchman33
01-25-2009, 11:52 AM
Also Munch... sure the players voted for it, the union did it in order to get future concessions. The MLBPA isn't stupid.

The players also start dropping out like flies don't they as per Phil's column.

So saying "they voted for it" is meaningless since the "stars" don't bother to play in it.

Look I'm all for the farce as long as not one single, solitary member of the White Sox 40 man roster plays one inning, throws one pitch or swings a single bat. If they want to take the Sox minor leaguer players...no problem, most of them aren't any good anyway!

Lip

Lip...there are a lot of "stars" still playing in it. People always have their personal reasons. I seriously doubt any aren't going because they truly "feel an obligation to their team." And if you take away the guys that are coming off injury or switching teams (meaning it makes professional sense to have a full spring training with them), there really aren't many guys missing at all.

Not to mention, we're just talking about the American team. Other teams are not having this "problem," if you want to call it that.

munchman33
01-25-2009, 11:53 AM
Munchman:

Not scientific but it makes the point.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090124-wbcpoll,0,5532699,post.poll

Lip

That only proves what I've known for a long time. Even when they're wrong, the people at WSI are stubborn and will drive their point as much as possible wherever they can. :cool:

I know, that's me too. A lot.

krispoulin
01-26-2009, 03:43 AM
Who won it four years ago? Who was the starting pitcher of the deciding game? Can anyone tell me without googling/MLB/searching for the answer?

Japan & Dice-K


I just wanted to second this. For the record, I was at the Final game and enjoyed every minute, despite the fact that it was a lopsided slow mover.

krispoulin
01-26-2009, 03:57 AM
I've made it known before, but I love this event and its potential, especially now that olympic baseball is a thing of the past. Eventually, I see MLB along with other professional baseball leagues, accommodating the event by working out something that allows the countries to compete in July...or even more logical, they could follow soccer's lead and have the competition take place over a few months. One game every two weeks or isn't much of strain on anyone, as I don't forsee Danks or Burls having a problem with an additional 10-20 innings of international competition over the next twelve years.

Yeah, spreading it out over a few months, like the Champions League matches, makes a lot of sense! Good call.

My guess is that MLB isn't going with that format now, because they can generate more recognition by concentrating all the games into a short span of time. Let's hope that they do in the near future, though there might be some trickiness with the logistics.

Frontman
01-26-2009, 05:57 PM
This is going to be one of those that people have opinions, we got to respect the fact that nobody will agree 100% with each other.

The whole "Players who back out are scared" is plain BS though. Again, respect their decisions; and who knows? Some of us naysayers might get won over that the WBC is a good thing...if it entertains us.

Sockinchisox
01-26-2009, 07:43 PM
AJ is in if they want him to play.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-27-white-sox-bits-chicagojan27,0,4718855.story

Frontman
01-26-2009, 09:31 PM
AJ is in if they want him to play.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-27-white-sox-bits-chicagojan27,0,4718855.story

He's going to get 162+ games in a year, no matter what it takes!!!

Rdy2PlayBall
01-26-2009, 11:26 PM
"I would like to see Thome win A World Series Ring. If he does not cut those strikeouts to 90 or less he can't come back. The Sox will move Carlos Quentin 2 DH & find someone else 2 play the outfield." Does that last part make any sense to any of you? @_@ Sorry to go a little off-topic, but Quentin is in the topic so oh well. xD

I hope only Thornton and Pierzynski go on the team, a starter and an injured player shouldn't be playing competitively before the season starts unless it's preseason.

krispoulin
04-06-2009, 02:31 PM
Disabled list data counters WBC injury talk (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4046878)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4046878

Frontman
04-06-2009, 03:28 PM
Disabled list data counters WBC injury talk (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4046878)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4046878

Good for them for dodging a bullet and for Selig to push to have another meaningless tournament. (And it was meaningless. The coaching staff of the US team even said they kept players in to quote "get their work in." Either they are playing to win, or its just a fancy way to play spring training games. Turns out it was the fancy spring training game option.)

I still would of been annoyed losing one of the Sox for an extended period for the WBC. I would be annoyed over an injury period.

anewman35
04-06-2009, 06:25 PM
Good for them for dodging a bullet and for Selig to push to have another meaningless tournament. (And it was meaningless. The coaching staff of the US team even said they kept players in to quote "get their work in." Either they are playing to win, or its just a fancy way to play spring training games. Turns out it was the fancy spring training game option.)

Just because the US team didn't take it seriously doesn't mean nobody did. Some of the games were really great, certianly more interesting than any spring training game would be.

munchman33
04-06-2009, 07:06 PM
Just because the US team didn't take it seriously doesn't mean nobody did. Some of the games were really great, certianly more interesting than any spring training game would be.

He thinks because a select few from one team in the tournament might not have taken it as seriously that the whole thing is a sham. Talk about grasping at straws. Any questions about whether the WBC mattered to most players were answered this year. They overwhelmingly do. To say otherwise is either bias or ignorance of the events of the last month. For all the noise about Americans not playing, the bulk of those were injured players.

soxfan2504
04-07-2009, 01:15 AM
He thinks because a select few from one team in the tournament might not have taken it as seriously that the whole thing is a sham. Talk about grasping at straws. Any questions about whether the WBC mattered to most players were answered this year. They overwhelmingly do. To say otherwise is either bias or ignorance of the events of the last month. For all the noise about Americans not playing, the bulk of those were injured players.

He also conveniently left out the fact that David Wright considered his game winning hit against PR that put the US into the semifinals "one of the biggest hits of his career." It's a damn shame more American players don't care, but it helps in a way in promoting the tourney, given that the we'd probably run away with it every time if we had all our best players. It makes the WBC that much more competitive, and as a result, we got one hell of a World Championship game that I'm kinda glad the haters missed out on.

And for those who deride the tournament as "meaningless" just because it's not the most popular event, you're no worse than alot of Cub "fans" who make fun of the Sox for being less popular. Of course, the Sox shouldn't be considered irrelevant because they're less popular than the Cubs, just as the WBC shouldn't be looked down upon just because it isn't the World Cup (and quite frankly, it never will be). You can't have it both ways. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

And really, in the grand scheme of things, almost every baseball game that has ever been played is meaningless. But that doesn't mean I still don't love the game.

Frontman
04-07-2009, 03:07 PM
Since you all are talking like I'm not here, let's throw one question out there for you:

Would you rather have the US team win the WBC; or the Sox win the World Series?

anewman35
04-07-2009, 03:46 PM
Since you all are talking like I'm not here, let's throw one question out there for you:

Would you rather have the US team win the WBC; or the Sox win the World Series?

Just because one thing is MORE meaningful doesn't mean the other thing is NOT meaningful.

Players aren't deciding between playing in the World Series or playing in the WBC. They're deciding between playing in Spring Training or playing in the WBC. That's a pretty big difference.

Frontman
04-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Just because one thing is MORE meaningful doesn't mean the other thing is NOT meaningful.

Players aren't deciding between playing in the World Series or playing in the WBC. They're deciding between playing in Spring Training or playing in the WBC. That's a pretty big difference.

True. But don't give me that time with your own team isn't important either. I'd rather have my players working out and playing with the Sox; getting ready for the season that matters. Period.

But just because out of one of the two WBC seasons the DL list is smaller does not dismiss people's concerns over the WBC. It means one time, a number was smaller than another year. That's all.

munchman33
04-07-2009, 04:15 PM
True. But don't give me that time with your own team isn't important either. I'd rather have my players working out and playing with the Sox; getting ready for the season that matters. Period.

But just because out of one of the two WBC seasons the DL list is smaller does not dismiss people's concerns over the WBC. It means one time, a number was smaller than another year. That's all.

Spring training is meaningless. I'd rather have my guys play in games with more meaning to better prepare for the season. Baseball is as much mental as it is physical, and too many players aren't ready for the season mentally because spring training is too much of a cake walk.

Frontman
04-07-2009, 06:15 PM
Then how about this for an idea?

Next time they have the WBC, start THAT before ST. Anyone playing in it needs to report to camp two weeks prior to the WBC games starting. Then, SHORTEN ST overall, so that it isn't so much of a mental bore for players?

Can I get an amen?

soxfan2504
04-07-2009, 06:39 PM
Then how about this for an idea?

Next time they have the WBC, start THAT before ST. Anyone playing in it needs to report to camp two weeks prior to the WBC games starting. Then, SHORTEN ST overall, so that it isn't so much of a mental bore for players?

Can I get an amen?

It would be really good for the players who actually want to be in the WBC, but what about the players trying to work their ass off to make the major league team (who simply aren't good enough to play for their nat'l team), or those who are invited but choose to not be in the WBC? The former guys would have little time to make an impression, and the latter would even have less in-game preparation time.