PDA

View Full Version : Sox sign Bartolo Colon


Pages : [1] 2

illini81887
01-14-2009, 07:27 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9079312/Sources:-White-Sox-add-Colon-to-rotation

Sockinchisox
01-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Well, throw Freddy out of the picture.

Welcome back Fartolo.

DSpivack
01-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Yay? :scratch:

mccoydp
01-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Interesting.

SoxGirl4Life
01-14-2009, 07:29 PM
:thud:

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 07:29 PM
Hmmm...

Patrick134
01-14-2009, 07:32 PM
Low risk move, low expectations. Not a good or bad move, more of a wait and see move.

tm1119
01-14-2009, 07:32 PM
I read hes supposed to compete for the 5th spot. Who the hell is the 4th?

DaveFeelsRight
01-14-2009, 07:33 PM
dont mind this at all.

russ99
01-14-2009, 07:33 PM
That's an OK move, but I don't think anyone's expecting him to fill a starting spot.

Not bad as a veteran backup, hope he does better than Loaiza.

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 07:34 PM
I guess it's not too bad, as long as we as fans don't expect him to be a vital part of the rotation. He is not healthy anymore. Plain and simple.

russ99
01-14-2009, 07:35 PM
I read hes supposed to compete for the 5th spot. Who the hell is the 4th?

Didn't you see Kenny's quote the other day? Marquez is supposed to be the next Jon Garland...:rolleyes:

oeo
01-14-2009, 07:35 PM
Not a bad option to have. We'll see how many innings he actually throws.

WhiteSox5187
01-14-2009, 07:37 PM
An out of shape guy who is 35 years old and has thrown 194.6 innings in the past three years. Hmm. :scratch:

DaveFeelsRight
01-14-2009, 07:37 PM
well, colon was never really IN shape...

Zisk77
01-14-2009, 07:40 PM
well, colon was never really IN shape...


Round is a shape!:tongue:

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:42 PM
If he's healthy...why not?

russ99
01-14-2009, 07:44 PM
Bartolo hasn't pitched in the Bigs since 2006 with the Halos, but he had a decent showing in AAA Pawtucket last year:

3-1, 2.27 ERA, 9 Games, 9 Starts, 31.2 IP (not a great ratio there...) 23 H, 6 BB, 21K, .196 BAA

LoveYourSuit
01-14-2009, 07:45 PM
I applaud Kenny here.

Need a veteran guy at the end to compete with the kids.


Give us 3/4 of what Esteban did for us in 2003 as a NIV 5th starter ... then we are in business.

DaveFeelsRight
01-14-2009, 07:45 PM
Bartolo hasn't pitched in the Bigs since 2006 with the Halos, but he had a decent showing in AAA Pawtucket last year:

3-1 , 2.27 ERA, 9 Games, 9 Starts, 31.2 innings (not a great ratio there..) 23 Hits, 6 BB, 20K.he started 7 games with the red sox and went 4-2 with an 3.92 era.

esbrechtel
01-14-2009, 07:46 PM
Maybe we will get a full season between him and Contreras....

Sockinchisox
01-14-2009, 07:46 PM
Bartolo hasn't pitched in the Bigs since 2006 with the Halos, but he had a decent showing in AAA Pawtucket last year:

3-1 , 2.27 ERA, 9 Games, 9 Starts, 31.2 innings (not a great ratio there..) 23 Hits, 6 BB, 20K.

He started 18 games for the Angels in 07 and 7 for the Red Sox last year.

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:47 PM
An out of shape guy who is 35 years old and has thrown 194.6 innings in the past three years. Hmm. :scratch:

Kenny knows what he's doing. If Bartolo wasn't healthy at all, he wouldn't have been signed.

Noneck
01-14-2009, 07:48 PM
I hope this isn't the move that they think put all the pieces in place.

russ99
01-14-2009, 07:49 PM
He started 18 games for the Angels in 07 and 7 for the Red Sox last year.

Whoops, forgot to turn the page in my Bill James Handbook... :redface:

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:51 PM
I hope this isn't the move that they think put all the pieces in place.

Lawd I hope not. But at this point, it's something to actually talk about this off-season.

russ99
01-14-2009, 07:51 PM
Lawd I hope not. But at this point, it's something to actually talk about this off-season.

And thank goodness for that! :D:

Rdy2PlayBall
01-14-2009, 07:55 PM
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/5484/theguyph6.jpg

Shut up, I'm bored. :tongue:

psyclonis
01-14-2009, 07:56 PM
Epic
nice job kenny
I'd love to sign freddy too

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:56 PM
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/5484/theguyph6.jpg

Shut up, I'm bored. :tongue:

When did the Sox start using non-pin-stripped white home jerseys?

Bartolo also looks like he has a bad hair day.

chisox616
01-14-2009, 07:56 PM
Eh. Seems like everyone else is signing aging injury prone starters, why not try one ourselves? At least it's something...

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:57 PM
Eh. Seems like everyone else is signing aging injury prone starters, why not try one ourselves? At least it's something...

If Colon can last till the ASB, then we have Jose as a back up. At this point, they seem like the same pitcher to me.

DaveFeelsRight
01-14-2009, 07:57 PM
thats just a quick photoshop over a red sox jersey

Rdy2PlayBall
01-14-2009, 07:57 PM
thats just a quick photoshop over a red sox jerseyEveryone is a critic! :mad:

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 07:58 PM
He clearly used the Red Sox picture with him and just changed stuff to black.

Add in the pinstripes you lazy bastard!

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:59 PM
thats just a quick photoshop over a red sox jersey

I know...

He could of done a better job of it, like maybe cropping a Sox jersey out and putting it on top of that.

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 08:02 PM
It's obvious he did it in like 10 minutes, I'd say it's good considering.

And to put a jersey ontop of that picture would be incredibly hard because you'd have to find an almost exact angle to make it look anywhere near normal.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-14-2009, 08:04 PM
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2312/theguylf8.jpg ->>> http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/8279/fattyap3.jpg

Idk... Better?

veeter
01-14-2009, 08:05 PM
Maybe we will get a full season between him and Contreras....I think you hit on something important here. The Sox owe Jose $10 mil. Colon might be all they (we) get. At least for now.

102605
01-14-2009, 08:07 PM
It is Wednesday!

thomas35forever
01-14-2009, 08:09 PM
Wow, I can't believe this is true. We have to see it up on the web site, but I guess this should work out well.

KRS1
01-14-2009, 08:12 PM
I think you hit on something important here. The Sox owe Jose $10 mil. Colon might be all they (we) get. At least for now.

Yeah, he had the same point I was going to make. The deal is probably cheaper than cheap for a guy of his upside, and he's basically had a good 15 months with just a tad bit of work to get over his injuries, so it's well worth the low risk, IMO. It doesn't have me completely comfortable by any means, but I'm glad to have us take a gamble on a guy like him to fill one of the two spots open in our rotation over two rookies for half of the season.

Chrisaway
01-14-2009, 08:14 PM
:porzio Am I next Kenny?

turners56
01-14-2009, 08:16 PM
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2312/theguylf8.jpg ->>> http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/8279/fattyap3.jpg

Idk... Better?

Yes :)

veeter
01-14-2009, 08:16 PM
:porzio Am I next Kenny?Is that Porz?!

DaveFeelsRight
01-14-2009, 08:16 PM
speaking of getting the band back together, what are the chances of sweaty freddy coming back?

turners56
01-14-2009, 08:17 PM
It's obvious he did it in like 10 minutes, I'd say it's good considering.

And to put a jersey ontop of that picture would be incredibly hard because you'd have to find an almost exact angle to make it look anywhere near normal.

That's why you just crop out the part you don't want. :D:

Rdy2PlayBall
01-14-2009, 08:18 PM
Yes :)FEEW! Now I can sleep at night! :redneck

I can do this for any new player coming in if you guys want, I could care less. :rolleyes:

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 08:21 PM
That's why you just crop out the part you don't want. :D:

Thanks for telling someone who has used Photoshop for 10 years. :D:

I know. Now he took some time and cleaned it up, we can all return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Boondock Saint
01-14-2009, 08:21 PM
Woo.

CLR01
01-14-2009, 08:21 PM
When you factor in concessions this may end up being an excellent deal for the Sox.

Chrisaway
01-14-2009, 08:22 PM
When you factor in concessions this may end up being an excellent deal for the Sox.But they discontinued Best's Kosher.

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 08:24 PM
But they discontinued Best's Kosher.

I doubt that will stop Colon.

Chrisaway
01-14-2009, 08:25 PM
I doubt that will stop Colon.
Colon will save the fledgling economy.

Stoky44
01-14-2009, 08:27 PM
The Sox will be wearing the black unis a lot more next year. Bartolo loved the black when he was here, I think because its more slimming in appearance.

ShoelessJoeS
01-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Low risk, high reward... right?

thomas35forever
01-14-2009, 08:32 PM
Low risk, high reward... right?
Correct. The rotation will now consist of

1) Buehrle
2) Danks
3) Floyd
4) Colon
5) Marquez/Poreda

WhiteSox1989
01-14-2009, 08:32 PM
Riiight. I would have rather have seen the Sox sign Freddy.

Soo..when are the Sox going to get pitching..I mean you know...the 4th and 5th spots are still open. Or is everyone competing for the two spots? Because that seems to be the case.

I am going to learn to accept that.

turners56
01-14-2009, 08:33 PM
The Sox will be wearing the black unis a lot more next year. Bartolo loved the black when he was here, I think because its more slimming in appearance.

I thought pinstripes made you look slimmer?

turners56
01-14-2009, 08:33 PM
Correct. The rotation will now consist of

1) Buehrle
2) Danks
3) Floyd
4) Colon
5) Marquez/Poreda

Where's Clayton Richard?

turners56
01-14-2009, 08:34 PM
Riiight. I would have rather have seen the Sox sign Freddy.

Soo..when are the Sox going to get pitching..I mean you know...the 4th and 5th spots are still open. Or is everyone competing for the two spots? Because that seems to be the case.

I am going to learn to accept that.

I'd rather have Colon. At least he can still bring it close to 90.

Chrisaway
01-14-2009, 08:35 PM
Low risk, high reward... right?
"I wish we had him 6 years ago."
http://www.themoviemind.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/lou-brown.jpg
"We did."

thomas35forever
01-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Where's Clayton Richard?
Ahh...I knew I forgot about somebody. He'll probably have to earn his spot too.

Frater Perdurabo
01-14-2009, 08:37 PM
No complaints here.

Chrisaway
01-14-2009, 08:38 PM
BTW The Score just confirmed this signing.

MarkZ35
01-14-2009, 08:40 PM
Not a bad move. Probably a small contract with a lot of posible incentives for innings pitched and so forth. So overall I can't complain. If he stays healthy I really can't see him being much worse then Javy.

thomas35forever
01-14-2009, 08:41 PM
Official per the web site.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090114&content_id=3744571&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

It's Dankerific
01-14-2009, 08:41 PM
All the KW doubters should be eating crow now!!!

KRS1
01-14-2009, 08:47 PM
I'd rather have Colon. At least he can still bring it close to 90.

He was actually in the low 90s all last year. I watched his first start against KC out of pure curiousity to see if he actually had anything left, and the guy was touching 94 quite a bit.

HomeFish
01-14-2009, 08:53 PM
All my dreams from early 2004 are coming true!

ChiSox89
01-14-2009, 08:54 PM
i like the move. if it works out its good but if not then its not that big of a deal cause he wasn't given like 8 million. was given 1 yr deal and he can always teach the younger guys.

Chrisaway
01-14-2009, 08:54 PM
All fat/old jokes aside, I'm glad Kenny got a vet in there to compete for a rotation spot.

A. Cavatica
01-14-2009, 08:59 PM
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2312/theguylf8.jpg ->>> http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/8279/fattyap3.jpg

Idk... Better?

Can you Photoshop in about 15 wins?

turners56
01-14-2009, 09:02 PM
He was actually in the low 90s all last year. I watched his first start against KC out of pure curiousity to see if he actually had anything left, and the guy was touching 94 quite a bit.

Even better then.

The Critic
01-14-2009, 09:05 PM
thats just a quick photoshop over a red sox jersey
Darn it, I was hoping the Sox were going back to their 1969 uniforms!
:D:

KRS1
01-14-2009, 09:06 PM
Even better then.

I can only attest to the one start I saw, where he hit 94 consistently, and from his pitchfx it looks like it was like that all year.

JermaineDye05
01-14-2009, 09:21 PM
Jesse Rogers on the score now talking about the deal.

soxpride724
01-14-2009, 09:21 PM
May not be a bad deal if he's used as a back up option.

MarkZ35
01-14-2009, 09:36 PM
Any info on the extent of the contract yet?

Dan Mega
01-14-2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't been this excited since Darin Erstad was signed.

SoxSpeed22
01-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Couldn't hurt. At least there's some veteran competition for the young guys.

guillensdisciple
01-14-2009, 09:49 PM
This is the true genius of Kenny Williams- he signs someone who is very low-key, has shown talent in the past, but has been given up on by everyone because of previous injuries. If Colon pitches a full season, Kenny Williams is a genius, just like he was with Quentin. If he pitches sparingly or not at all everyone sais "ehh". Very simple but very smart.

The rotation will definitely be:
1)Buerhle
2)Floyd
3)Danks
4)Colon
5)Richard

Richard interests me, not many people are as optimistic about this kid as I am, but he showed me he has the capacity to win. I am going to put him as the surprise of next year with 12 wins and 10 losses and a very respectable 3.75- 4.00 era.

I will probably make a complete fool of myself with this prediction, but I like what I see, and I think he has the capacity to provide the Sox with a quality season.

Marqhead
01-14-2009, 09:55 PM
Why not?

Hopefully he brings some competition for the 4th/5th spots, and if healthy more stability to the rotation.

Low risk, potential for high reward.

gf2020
01-14-2009, 09:58 PM
I don't understand the seeming extreme preference for Freddy over Bartolo. Colon pitched more last season and pitched better. I don't understand favoring someone who has pitched in a grand total of 14 MLB games in the past two season plus a few minor league games. And who even knows what Freddy was asking for. We might have gotten Colon cheaper.

whitem0nkey
01-14-2009, 10:09 PM
just like joe cowley predicted.

longtimesoxguy
01-14-2009, 10:33 PM
I got no problem with this. Kenny and Company know a lot more than we ever will.

Jurr
01-14-2009, 10:38 PM
Nothing's more disgusting than seeing Colon smack that gum in his mouth like a cow chewing cud. It's a little more bearable when he's pitching complete games, though.

I'm not sure of the impact this signing will have, but I'm grateful to KW for giving us something to discuss for a little while.

MHOUSE
01-14-2009, 10:40 PM
I'm totally on board with this signing. If Colon turns up healthy, he can still be a very good 4th or 5th starter. He's no longer the #1 guy he was in 2006, but he showed last year he can pitch well when he doesn't have to swing a bat! I hope we sign Freddy as well. I'd rather have a retread from the glory days than Marquez as my 5th starter. At the least it's some competition for the youngsters. Way to go KW!

rdivaldi
01-14-2009, 10:43 PM
I also agree that this was a proper move for KW to make. There was a laundry list of veteran starters that I wanted him to sign for some rotation insurance, Colon was definitely one of them.

Rocky Soprano
01-14-2009, 10:44 PM
But I thought Kenny was completely done and had our roster set? Why the hell is he making moves so late in the offseason? Is he trying to ruin the chemistry of our team RIGHT before spring training?

Noneck
01-14-2009, 10:56 PM
But I thought Kenny was completely done and had our roster set? Why the hell is he making moves so late in the offseason? Is he trying to ruin the chemistry of our team RIGHT before spring training?
This may be the cherry to top the sundae.

kittle42
01-14-2009, 10:59 PM
All the KW doubters should be eating crow now!!!

Post of the thread.

drewcifer
01-14-2009, 11:02 PM
How much?

$, not lbs.

Brian26
01-14-2009, 11:05 PM
And this time Kenny didn't even have to give up Leifer and Al Osuna. KW continues to amaze.

Daver
01-14-2009, 11:09 PM
How much?

$, not lbs.


Perhaps he is getting paid by the pound.

RockJock07
01-14-2009, 11:13 PM
I'm totally on board with this signing. If Colon turns up healthy, he can still be a very good 4th or 5th starter. He's no longer the #1 guy he was in 2006, but he showed last year he can pitch well when he doesn't have to swing a bat! I hope we sign Freddy as well. I'd rather have a retread from the glory days than Marquez as my 5th starter. At the least it's some competition for the youngsters. Way to go KW!

Why? what do you dislike about Marquez?

SoxandtheCityTee
01-14-2009, 11:14 PM
Post of the thread.

OK, but there are a LOT of nominees.

Another Wowee Wednesday for KW!

voodoochile
01-14-2009, 11:15 PM
Can't hurt unless KW gave away the house, but I doubt he did...

gr8mexico
01-14-2009, 11:16 PM
Perhaps he is getting paid by the pound.
If that's true then we overpaid

Zisk77
01-14-2009, 11:28 PM
He doesn't fit our staff, he is actually surprisingly good at holding runners on base.

Madscout
01-14-2009, 11:46 PM
Perhaps he is getting paid by the pound.
Hopefully how many he loses, pounds, that is.

whitesox901
01-14-2009, 11:48 PM
hmmmm, interesting

PalehosePlanet
01-14-2009, 11:50 PM
Well, out of all the retreads/reclamation projects out there he is the only one who actually pitched well last year.

Hopefully he is as strong or stronger this year.

BainesHOF
01-14-2009, 11:53 PM
I watching Colon pitch a day game against the Indians from seats right by the Sox dugout. It was amazing to see him be successful by throwing almost exclusively fastballs all day. He must have thrown less than five non-fastballs, yet he pitched well as he was throwing 95-plus mph.

slavko
01-14-2009, 11:54 PM
I applaud Kenny here.

Need a veteran guy at the end to compete with the kids.


Give us 3/4 of what Esteban did for us in 2003 as a NIV 5th starter ... then we are in business.

3/4 of a guy who was in consideration for the Cy Young. That's not bad. Did we get the senior discount?

LoveYourSuit
01-14-2009, 11:59 PM
OMG guys, enough with the fat jokes.

SOXfnNlansing
01-15-2009, 12:01 AM
Just my opinion. ****ty move.

cards press box
01-15-2009, 12:09 AM
Well, throw Freddy out of the picture

That is not necessarily so. Why wouldn't the Sox bring both to spring training. That would give the Sox some potential depth and definitely would take pressure off the young pitchers.




Darn it, I was hoping the Sox were going back to their 1969 uniforms!
:D:

Why? Esthetically, I have nothing against the 1969 uniforms but they do remind me of the 1969 and 1970 seasons. Those might well be the two worst Sox seasons in my memory. I am hard pressed to remember two worse consecutive seasons.

Iron Dragon2
01-15-2009, 12:14 AM
I'm not impressed by this move.

oeo
01-15-2009, 12:20 AM
I'm not impressed by this move.

Who is impressed? :scratch:

It's low risk. If he's healthy, he can be a good option. If he's not, it's a one year deal...who cares?

areilly
01-15-2009, 12:24 AM
Who is impressed? :scratch:

It's low risk. If he's healthy, he can be a good option. If he's not, it's a one year deal...who cares?

Agreed. The worst thing that happens is he sucks just as much as everyone expects him to, and he can't be worse than the one lucky fan at tonight's game the Sox had penciled in for the back end of the rotation.

CubKilla
01-15-2009, 12:34 AM
I'll take a healthy Colon over Vazquez and his BS any day

LoveYourSuit
01-15-2009, 12:36 AM
I don't see the downside of this move either.

Penney and Smoltz are as big question marks to the Red Sox as will Colon be for us. Except Colon is cheaper.

LoveYourSuit
01-15-2009, 12:38 AM
I'll take a healthy Colon over Vazquez and his BS any day


What "BS" are you talking about? The guy took the ball everytime it was given to him even on short rest. Tip your hat to that, he was a horse. Results were not great but the guy was not BS out there.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 12:41 AM
What "BS" are you talking about? The guy took the ball everytime it was given to him even on short rest. Tip your hat to that, he was a horse. Results were not great but the guy was not BS out there.

"Guts."

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 12:41 AM
I'll take a healthy Colon over Vazquez and his BS any day

...Hmm, you enjoy that. I'll take the 200 IP with mediocre stats over 60 IP with mediocre.

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 12:42 AM
"Guts."

Passion, da fire, Chicago tough, etc.

CubKilla
01-15-2009, 12:44 AM
What "BS" are you talking about? The guy took the ball everytime it was given to him even on short rest. Tip your hat to that, he was a horse. Results were not great but the guy was not BS out there.

I'm talking about the "BS" that everyone mentioned before Game 1 of the ALDS that Vazquez obliged Sox fans with. Ranger, Cowley, the sports media in general, ALOT of Sox fans talked about the probable Vazquez implosion that may and did occur after the Sox gave him the lead. Typical Javy in big games.

I could go on but why beat the proverbial dead horse?

CubKilla
01-15-2009, 12:45 AM
...Hmm, you enjoy that. I'll take the 200 IP with mediocre stats over 60 IP with mediocre.

I am and was, of course, talking about when each of them are healthy :rolleyes:

LoveYourSuit
01-15-2009, 12:46 AM
Passion, da fire, Chicago tough, etc.


It's sickening.


Same people burning Javy's house down are the those screaming for Kenny to sign Garland or Freddy.

cws05champ
01-15-2009, 12:49 AM
He doesn't fit our staff, he is actually surprisingly good at holding runners on base.

He doesn't fit much anywhere!!

That loud ovation is the restaurant association of Chicago celebrating his return.....

Thank you I'll be here all week, try the veal.

LoveYourSuit
01-15-2009, 12:50 AM
I'm talking about the "BS" that everyone mentioned before Game 1 of the ALDS that Vazquez obliged Sox fans with. Ranger, Cowley, the sports media in general, ALOT of Sox fans talked about the probable Vazquez implosion that may and did occur after the Sox gave him the lead. Typical Javy in big games.

I could go on but why beat the proverbial dead horse?


OK smart man, who the **** did you expect Ozzie to throw out there for game 1, Sandy Koufax? It's like Ozzie was going to pull a miracle out of his ass to start game 1. There was no one available to pitch that game.

Talk about beating a dead horse.

LoveYourSuit
01-15-2009, 12:51 AM
He doesn't fit much anywhere!!

That loud ovation is the restaurant association of Chicago celebrating his return.....

Thank you I'll be here all week, try the veal.


Another fat joke.... clever.


Has Bobby Jenks taken this much **** for being fat?

Whitesox029
01-15-2009, 12:54 AM
Why? Esthetically, I have nothing against the 1969 uniforms but they do remind me of the 1969 and 1970 seasons. Those might well be the two worst Sox seasons in my memory. I am hard pressed to remember two worse consecutive seasons.
'88 (71-90) and '89 (69-92) were pretty bad. It's why these guys will never have their own turn back the clock night:
http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/images/al_1989_chicago.gif
It's a shame, because I really like them. They won 94 games in '90, but they did switch over to the current unis in September of that year, and there was no division title to commemorate.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/5484/theguyph6.jpg

Shut up, I'm bored. :tongue:
I'm confused...couldn't you have just used this photo and saved yourself some time? :smile:
:bcolon

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 01:10 AM
I am and was, of course, talking about when each of them are healthy :rolleyes:

But that logic is failed because one of those guys hasn't been healthy since 2005.

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 01:13 AM
Another fat joke.... clever.


Has Bobby Jenks taken this much **** for being fat?

No, but Jenks hasn't grown much in his career, he seems like a guy who has always been a little husky.

Colon is completely out-of-shape and has gotten much worse as his career has went on. Which is pretty mind-boggling when your job is to be an athlete.

http://membres.lycos.fr/guydoune/images/COLON.JPGhttp://www.mopupduty.com/colon.jpghttp://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/bartolo-colon-dominican-republic.jpg

kittle42
01-15-2009, 01:15 AM
It's sickening.


Same people burning Javy's house down are the those screaming for Kenny to sign Garland or Freddy.

I couldn't agree more. No one is questioning that the man didn't play well in "big games." But you know what? The season is 162 games and someone has to get you to those big games...and he is a far better choice than any of the slop being recommended here.

Konerko05
01-15-2009, 01:19 AM
try the veal.

You know Bartolo will.

gf2020
01-15-2009, 01:20 AM
That is not necessarily so. Why wouldn't the Sox bring both to spring training. That would give the Sox some potential depth and definitely would take pressure off the young pitchers.
The Sox are obviously planning on having a young pitcher (Richard, Broadway, Poreda or Marquez) take one of the slots, so why pay two players for one spot? And more importantly, why would Freddy come here now when he could probably find a better opportunity somewhere else?

HomeFish
01-15-2009, 01:22 AM
Which is pretty mind-boggling when your job is to be an athlete.


He's not an athlete, he's a ballplayer.

Rocky Soprano
01-15-2009, 01:29 AM
He doesn't fit much anywhere!!

That loud ovation is the restaurant association of Chicago celebrating his return.....

Thank you I'll be here all week, try the veal.

Keep your day job.

Nellie_Fox
01-15-2009, 01:29 AM
He's not an athlete, he's a ballplayer.Thank you John Kruk.

Rocky Soprano
01-15-2009, 01:31 AM
It's sickening.


Same people burning Javy's house down are the those screaming for Kenny to sign Garland or Freddy.

Very true. I do not understand where the love for Garland is coming from. A great portion of fans always questioned his fire and wanted him gone. Hell, many of the posters here disliked him, some even got a rip for calling him out of his name. Now that he is gone, people want him back. :rolleyes:

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 01:38 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/images/events/mothersday/y2008/LAA-MD-275.jpg

That's why.

People want to feel this connection to the "good days" that's all. Garland is alright, but he's mediocre and is going to command way too much on the market.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-15-2009, 02:45 AM
Reminds me of the El Duque signing in '05. I still would rather have Vazquez than Colon though. So we get 5-10 starts out of him, while Poreda warms up in the pen until he gets hurt for the season. Sure hope we didn't pay him much.

WSox597
01-15-2009, 05:24 AM
It's worth a shot, and probably better than Sweaty Freddy the sequel.

Wilbur Wood was rather portly, and that worked out pretty well.

You never know.

Boondock Saint
01-15-2009, 05:55 AM
So we mock the Padres for signing Mark Prior to a minor league deal, but we look at Bartolo Colon and think, "Finally, KW signed the veteran 4 or 5 starter we need to push the young guys!"?

Hypocrisy, thy name is WSI.

doublem23
01-15-2009, 06:00 AM
So we mock the Padres for signing Mark Prior to a minor league deal, but we look at Bartolo Colon and think, "Finally, KW signed the veteran 4 or 5 starter we need to push the young guys!"?

Hypocrisy, thy name is WSI.

:rolling:

You realize Mark Prior hasn't even pitched in like 3 years, right?

Unless KW signed Colon to some multiyear deal for an outrageous amount, this signing is probably just as harmless.

doublem23
01-15-2009, 06:06 AM
It's sickening.

Same people burning Javy's house down are the those screaming for Kenny to sign Garland or Freddy.

Did you ever think that there's more to baseball than just stats? Maybe Javier wore out his welcome here? Shouldn't that be evident by the fact that if the Sox got to Game 5 of the ALDS, Ozzie basically said he'd put the ball in the hands of a rookie (Richard) rather than start Javier?

I'm not going to get into the whole "guts/balls/big game" debate, but maybe it's as simple as nobody liking the guy? If Javier, Garland, etc. are all going to give me a mediocre performance for too much money, I'd at least prefer the guy who people in the organization respect and enjoy having around?

Boondock Saint
01-15-2009, 06:07 AM
:rolling:

You realize Mark Prior hasn't even pitched in like 3 years, right?

Bartolo Colons innings pitched:

2006-56.3
2007-99.3
2008-39.0

You're absolutely right. He's bound to bounce back and put up 200+ quality innings for us this year.

doublem23
01-15-2009, 06:10 AM
Bartolo Colons innings pitched:

2006-56.3
2007-99.3
2008-39.0

You're absolutely right. He's bound to bounce back and put up 200+ quality innings for us this year.

Well, I don't see any guys making fun of the Padres in the Mark Prior thread over here whooping it up over Bartolo.

Research, thy name is not Boondock Saint.

Boondock Saint
01-15-2009, 06:18 AM
Well, I don't see any guys making fun of the Padres in the Mark Prior thread over here whooping it up over Bartolo.

Research, thy name is not Boondock Saint.

Do a search and you can find any number of people (myself included) that mock Prior and any team that finds it logical to sign him. The fact that everyone hasn't jumped on that particular thread doesn't mean that all of a sudden they think Prior is ready to turn it around, it means that posting about it year after year has become redundant.

NLaloosh
01-15-2009, 08:11 AM
I have very strong feelings about this.

If Colon pitches well then it'll be a good move.

If he pitches poorly or becomes injured then it will be a bad move.

spawn
01-15-2009, 09:00 AM
Very true. I do not understand where the love for Garland is coming from. A great portion of fans always questioned his fire and wanted him gone. Hell, many of the posters here disliked him, some even got a rip for calling him out of his name. Now that he is gone, people want him back. :rolleyes:
That's par for the course here. Freddy? people wanted him gone. The when he's traded for Floyd, we didn't get enough. now people want him back. Rowand? He's the greatest CFer the world has ever known. Garland, as you have mentioned. Tadahito? he didn't show much his last year here, but now he's should be here as a veteran manning 2B. Javy? People here couldn't have jettisoned him quick enough, now all of a sudden he's an innings eater and it was a mistake to trade him. It's pretty funny when you stop and think about it.

spawn
01-15-2009, 09:02 AM
Well, I don't see any guys making fun of the Padres in the Mark Prior thread over here whooping it up over Bartolo.

Research, thy name is not Boondock Saint.

Do a search and you can find any number of people (myself included) that mock Prior and any team that finds it logical to sign him. The fact that everyone hasn't jumped on that particular thread doesn't mean that all of a sudden they think Prior is ready to turn it around, it means that posting about it year after year has become redundant.
I think you need to re-read his post. he said the people mocking Prior aren't exactly thrilled with the Bartolo signing either.

Heffalump
01-15-2009, 09:06 AM
I love the deal (as long as it is basically all incentives - which it sounds like it is).

Look at Colon's start detail from last year. He did a great job in 5 of 6 starts, before he got hurt. He obviously still has most of the 'good stuff' in his arm. IF (it is a huge if) he can stay healthy, I see no problem with throwing him in the fourth or fifth starter spot for basically pennies (in MLB salary terms).

If he gets hurt, so what? You are back where you started with the young guys and he doesn't kill the payroll. Taking the chance is better than doing nothing and trusting those spots to two young guys.

If we are gonna take a gamble on some project, at this point I'd rather have Colon than Garcia, as I think he has more upside (Freddie is all cunning and guile now, not much power left in that arm). The injury aspect is there for both of them.

As for Javy - All you lovers can have him. It is very simple - he can't be relied upon. It is also obvious that he burned some bridges with his attitude. Too much money, for too little of a man.

Come on Javy lovers - give it to me!!

spawn
01-15-2009, 09:09 AM
As for Javy - All you lovers can have him. It is very simple - he can't be relied upon. It is also obvious that he burned some bridges with his attitude. Too much money, for too little of a man.

Come on Javy lovers - give it to me!!
I'm not a Javy lover, but what you say here is completely inaccurate. Javy may not have been a money pitcher, but he was very reliable. You can't argue against a guy that took the ball every fifth day and gave you 200+ innings. You can question his guts, or his mental makeup, but there is no questioning his durability.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 09:13 AM
I have very strong feelings about this.

If Colon pitches well then it'll be a good move.

If he pitches poorly or becomes injured then it will be a bad move.
Face, meet palm.

Heffalump
01-15-2009, 09:42 AM
I'm not a Javy lover, but what you say here is completely inaccurate. Javy may not have been a money pitcher, but he was very reliable. You can't argue against a guy that took the ball every fifth day and gave you 200+ innings. You can question his guts, or his mental makeup, but there is no questioning his durability.


Um.....Where did I question his durability? He can't win when it really matters - thus he can't be relied upon.

In addition, I didn't question his guts or his mental makeup. It is a fact that he doesn't have the guts to pitch well when it matters. Based upon his comments last year regarding If I suck, "I will just go home to my family", it is also clear that he doesn't have the mental makeup.

My point is simple. For the money he is being paid, he is expected to show up EVERY start. Not just for the first five innings against the Royals in May.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 09:46 AM
Um.....Where did I question his durability? He can't win when it really matters - thus he can't be relied upon.

In addition, I didn't question his guts or his mental makeup. It is a fact that he doesn't have the guts to pitch well when it matters. Based upon his comments last year regarding If I suck, "I will just go home to my family", it is also clear that he doesn't have the mental makeup.

My point is simple. For the money he is being paid, he is expected to show up EVERY start. Not just for the first five innings against the Royals in May.
I'd take back Vazquez in a heartbeat. Our rotation looks better with him in it than with Marqez/Richard.

spawn
01-15-2009, 09:52 AM
In addition, I didn't question his guts or his mental makeup. It is a fact that he doesn't have the guts to pitch well when it matters. Based upon his comments last year regarding If I suck, "I will just go home to my family", it is also clear that he doesn't have the mental makeup.
I can't beleive peopel are still upset over that quote. it makes perfect sense to me. He knows there are more important things to life than just baseball.

My point is simple. For the money he is being paid, he is expected to show up EVERY start. Not just for the first five innings against the Royals in May.
He did show up in every start. Sure, he was maddeningly inconsistent, but he did save some wear and tear on the bullpen.

WizardsofOzzie
01-15-2009, 09:55 AM
I have very strong feelings about this.

If Colon pitches well then it'll be a good move.

If he pitches poorly or becomes injured then it will be a bad move.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4354/captainobviousna3.jpg

beasly213
01-15-2009, 09:55 AM
Low Risk Move. I'm Fine with it. Would have prefered they gave a few bucks to Garland though instead.

But like others have said if he wasn't at least somewhat healthy I don't think Kenny would have signed him.

beasly213
01-15-2009, 09:56 AM
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4354/captainobviousna3.jpg

:lol:

Sargeant79
01-15-2009, 09:57 AM
I love the deal (as long as it is basically all incentives - which it sounds like it is).

Look at Colon's start detail from last year. He did a great job in 5 of 6 starts, before he got hurt. He obviously still has most of the 'good stuff' in his arm. IF (it is a huge if) he can stay healthy, I see no problem with throwing him in the fourth or fifth starter spot for basically pennies (in MLB salary terms).

If he gets hurt, so what? You are back where you started with the young guys and he doesn't kill the payroll. Taking the chance is better than doing nothing and trusting those spots to two young guys.


Heff - I agree with you on Colon. I am warming up to this move a little bit more this morning. I looked at some of his stats from last year, and Colon pitched better than I thought he did. In AAA, he didn't get many innings per outing because they were bringing him along slowly, but he had a very good WHIP and K/BB ratio. When he was brought up to the majors for those 7 starts at the end of the year, his WHIP increased but his K/BB ratio was still pretty good and his ERA was a very respectable 3.92.

As many other posters have mentioned, this move certainly doesn't hurt. He might actually turn in a good year if he is truly healthy for the first time since 2005. If he gets hurt, you're no worse off than you are now. It doesn't sound like he is costing much at all, and I like the idea of Marquez or Poreda as insurance in case of injury rather than guys being relied on in the rotation all season.

veeter
01-15-2009, 10:00 AM
I just wonder if this will lead to other moves.

KenBerryGrab
01-15-2009, 10:05 AM
Just keep him out of the interleague games so he won't get hurt swinging like he did last year.

rwcescato
01-15-2009, 10:13 AM
I dont like it. Its a waste. I am getting sick of KWs obsession with washed up veterans. Take a chance on someone like Ben Sheets. At least he has an upside.:angry:

RallyBowl
01-15-2009, 10:17 AM
I just wonder if this will lead to other moves.

Exactly what I was thinking. I definitely expect a pitcher to be moved as a part of a deal now, maybe within the next week. Also, Bartolo = Awesome.

Marqhead
01-15-2009, 10:21 AM
I dont like it. Its a waste. I am getting sick of KWs obsession with washed up veterans. Take a chance on someone like Ben Sheets. At least he has an upside.:angry:

Yeah ok. Rather than go for washed up veterans lets throw way too much money and a bad contract at injury prone Ben Sheets who is a solid bet to spend a good portion of the season on the DL.

Look, I'm all for signing Sheets if he can be had at a cheap, short term price with an incentive laden contract. My guess however, is that he's looking for a longer term deal with a lot more money, and some stupid team is going to give it to him.

This move in no way hurts our team. The possibility of Colon giving any kind of stability to the back end of the rotation makes the deal worth it. If it doesn't work out, fine, at least we didn't spend a bunch to get him.

EnglishChiSox
01-15-2009, 10:22 AM
I dont like it. Its a waste. I am getting sick of KWs obsession with washed up veterans. Take a chance on someone like Ben Sheets. At least he has an upside.:angry:

Because Sheets would want ace/no.2 money which is probably unaffordable.

EMel9281
01-15-2009, 10:29 AM
What "BS" are you talking about? The guy took the ball everytime it was given to him even on short rest. Tip your hat to that, he was a horse. Results were not great but the guy was not BS out there.

Vazquez was a head case, and I'm glad he's gone. The only problem Colon had with his head in a Sox uniform was trying to keep his hat on with that ginormous fro he had in '03.

Good move, Kenny!

ChiSoxFan81
01-15-2009, 10:33 AM
Javy is starting to look not so bad now. I hope Bartolo proves me wrong.

RedPinStripes
01-15-2009, 10:41 AM
Funny how everyone forgets so quickly how frustrating it is to watch Vasquez especially when you put him in a big game.

If Colon is healthy he'll be good. I'll take my chances with him over little game javy.

The Milkman
01-15-2009, 10:42 AM
Do you people not understand that we COULD NOT have Javy back this season. Do you remember the boos from his final start at the Cell last year? He would get boos every single mediocre to poor start at home. Imagine if Game 1 of the ALDS was at the Cell?

We got Colon for an incentive-laden deal with a low base. This is better than nothing.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 10:43 AM
Did you ever think that there's more to baseball than just stats? Maybe Javier wore out his welcome here? Shouldn't that be evident by the fact that if the Sox got to Game 5 of the ALDS, Ozzie basically said he'd put the ball in the hands of a rookie (Richard) rather than start Javier?

I'm not going to get into the whole "guts/balls/big game" debate, but maybe it's as simple as nobody liking the guy? If Javier, Garland, etc. are all going to give me a mediocre performance for too much money, I'd at least prefer the guy who people in the organization respect and enjoy having around?

Fine, but replace him with someone who is likely to do an equal or better job. Instead, we go cheap.

beasly213
01-15-2009, 10:46 AM
I dont like it. Its a waste. I am getting sick of KWs obsession with washed up veterans. Take a chance on someone like Ben Sheets. At least he has an upside.:angry:

And what other washed up veterans has Kenny been obsessed with in the past few years???

He traded for Jr. He helped us win at least one game. Which is what we needed to win the central.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 10:46 AM
Do you people not understand that we COULD NOT have Javy back this season. Do you remember the boos from his final start at the Cell last year? He would get boos every single mediocre to poor start at home. Imagine if Game 1 of the ALDS was at the Cell?

Oh, how terrible.

He would be a far cry from the most hated players even in my lifetime.

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 11:07 AM
Oh, how terrible.

He would be a far cry form the most hated players even in my lifetime.

I also remember quite a few times Colon received boos from Sox fans.

Also, the whole getting suspended by the Red Sox last year for not accepting a demotion to the bullpen and just flat-out not showing up to their games.

But, but... Javy sux!

Carolina Kenny
01-15-2009, 11:12 AM
KW would not sign Colon if there was at least a possiblity of him being healthy enough to contribute. IF Colon is healthy and stays healthy you cannot would be hard pressed to find a better risk/reward situation out there.

Colon has been a beast, a monster in the past. Sure its a long shot, but comebacks for pitchers do exist, and if his most recent injury issues are not arm/shoulder related, that makes the odds of a comeback even better.

Does anyone have a photo of Herm and Colon together?

voodoochile
01-15-2009, 11:12 AM
I have very strong feelings about this.

If Colon pitches well then it'll be a good move.

If he pitches poorly or becomes injured then it will be a bad move.

It will only be a bad move if the amount of guaranteed money is high. Do we even have a figure yet? I'd bet it's a small base with a lot of incentives.

...
01-15-2009, 11:19 AM
Funny how everyone forgets so quickly how frustrating it is to watch Vasquez especially when you put him in a big game.

If Colon is healthy he'll be good. I'll take my chances with him over little game javy.

Don't you mean "beach boy?"

soxinem1
01-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Didn't you see Kenny's quote the other day? Marquez is supposed to be the next Jon Garland...:rolleyes:

Let's hope not!!!:smile:

But I'll always be a fan of Bart. When Magglio kept getting pegged in 2003, none of our starters stood up. But Bart was pitching a great game and Maggs was pegged again. Bart answered by nearly putting one in Jerry Hairston, Jr.'s ear. He was promptly ejected.

If he has 80% of what he had in 2003, which is possible, I'm for it.

veeter
01-15-2009, 11:31 AM
Let's hope not!!!:smile:If Marquez wins 18 games twice for the Sox, we'd all be doing jumping jacks. Garland isn't dominating, but he's been a very steady major league pitcher for a while now. This criticism isn't warranted. He also did very well in the post-season for the Sox. Without Jon, no 2005 World Championship.

tick53
01-15-2009, 11:34 AM
The Sox will be wearing the black unis a lot more next year. Bartolo loved the black when he was here, I think because its more slimming in appearance.

I don't like the black unis OR the signing of this has been.

Zisk77
01-15-2009, 11:37 AM
somebody on the score today said: "Coop found a flaw in his diet. Coop will fix him.":rolling:

Heffalump
01-15-2009, 11:42 AM
Ha!

I'd take Garland over Javy any day. He wasn't Mr. Intensity, but he learned how to get the job done when it mattered.

Poor Javy, all that "stuff" in his arm, but none of it in his head. But he will do fine in Atlanta - utnil that big game comes along.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 11:48 AM
Ha!

I'd take Garland over Javy any day. He wasn't Mr. Intensity, but he learned how to get the job done when it mattered.

Poor Javy, all that "stuff" in his arm, but none of it in his head. But he will do fine in Atlanta - utnil that big game comes along.

Javier Vazquez is a better pitcher than Jon Garland, and I am pretty sure any GM in MLB would agree.

Rocky Soprano
01-15-2009, 11:53 AM
Fine, but replace him with someone who is likely to do an equal or better job. Instead, we go cheap.

Like who?

veeter
01-15-2009, 11:54 AM
Javier Vazquez is a better pitcher than Jon Garland, and I am pretty sure any GM in MLB would agree.Javy, is an enigma because of his great stuff. Where Jon is more, 'what you see is what you get.' I have a soft spot for Jon because he's had some damn good years, and again, did very well in the post-season. Javy can be spectacular for sure, but he doesn't like pressure.

Tekijawa
01-15-2009, 12:03 PM
Does anyone have a photo of Herm and Colon together?

Is it even possible to get the both of them in the picture together?
I see a picture a photo of half of both of them

Heffalump
01-15-2009, 12:03 PM
Javier Vazquez is a better pitcher than Jon Garland, and I am pretty sure any GM in MLB would agree.

Okey Dokey. I'm also pretty sure that you can't speak for any GM in MLB.

It's just my opinion, I'll take Garland's wins, consistency, and average stuff over Javy's awesome stuff, strikeouts, and panic attacks. At least you know what you are getting with Garland, no matter the game.

We will agree to disagree.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 12:06 PM
Like who?

Derek Lowe and several other mid-rotation candidates were out there.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-15-2009, 12:11 PM
If Bartolo can give us just 3-4 months of acceptable pitching (average 5-6 innings per game and maintain an ERA around 5.00) and Jose Contreras comes back in July and does a bit better, I think we'd all be happy. Obviously if he does more, we'd all be more than happy.

thedudeabides
01-15-2009, 12:11 PM
Derek Lowe and several other mid-rotation candidates were out there.

Boras client. 4 years $60 million for a guy who struggled his last time around the AL. I'm not overly excited about Bartolo, but Lowe was never a realistic possibility.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Boras client. 4 years $60 million for a guy who struggled his last time around the AL. I'm not overly excited about Bartolo, but Lowe was never a realistic possibility.

The "realities" that one has to accept when talking about the Sox lately are driving me up a wall. I accept them because I am a fan, but really, I just try not to think about it.

The bottom line is there were/are other pitchers out there better than Garland and at least equal to Vazquez. Citing the money only makes my point stronger - Vazquez should have been kept because he was a good monetary fit for the production he gives you. You would think a team so concerned with the bottom line would give that some more thought, but instead discards him because of a **** September and Ozzie's opinion.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 12:18 PM
If Bartolo can give us just 3-4 months of acceptable pitching (average 5-6 innings per game and maintain an ERA around 5.00)

When did those numbers ever become "acceptable?" That's horrible.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-15-2009, 12:34 PM
When did those numbers ever become "acceptable?" That's horrible.

a quality start, 6IP, 3 ER, equates to a 4.50 ERA. Averaging 5-6 IP, and 3-4 ER is acceptable.

If he gave up 3 ER per 5IP, he'd have a 5.40 ERA. That is not horrible. It's bad, but not horrible.

Thome25
01-15-2009, 12:37 PM
I thought we already had a player that fit the bill of formerly dominant, aging, injury prone starter and his name is Jose Contreras.

Now we have two of these types of guys. Maybe KW is hoping we can get a half season out of Contreras and a half season out of Colon.

Two aging, injury-prone starters may = one good season combined.

I guess that hispanic website (deportivos?) CAN predict the future after all.....they just reported the Colon signing a year too early that's all..

thedudeabides
01-15-2009, 12:39 PM
The "realities" that one has to accept when talking about the Sox lately are driving me up a wall. I accept them because I am a fan, but really, I just try not to think about it.

The bottom line is there were/are other pitchers out there better than Garland and at least equal to Vazquez. Citing the money only makes my point stronger - Vazquez should have been kept because he was a good monetary fit for the production he gives you. You would think a team so concerned with the bottom line would give that some more thought, but instead discards him because of a **** September and Ozzie's opinion.

Javy was quite expensive. I think the reality was the Sox were going to cut payroll somewhere and they feel he can be replaced. Kenny has always been about pitching, so either he was too expensive or they didn't want him anymore for what they saw at the end of the year. Do you remember Kenny saying he was going into the locker room to look players in the face, to see who he couldn't trust in a pennant race? Well, Javy and Swish are gone.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-15-2009, 12:42 PM
If Bartolo can give us just 3-4 months of acceptable pitching (average 5-6 innings per game and maintain an ERA around 5.00) and Jose Contreras comes back in July and does a bit better, I think we'd all be happy. Obviously if he does more, we'd all be more than happy.


I thought we already had a player that fit the bil of formerly dominant, aging, injury prone starter and his name is Jose Contreras.

Now we have two of these types of guys. Maybe KW is hoping we can get a half season out of Contreras and a half season out of Colon.

Two aging, injury-prone starters may = one good season combined.

I guess that hispanic website CAN predict the future after all.....they just reported it a year too early.


rehashing old news! :D:

Lip Man 1
01-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Based on Ozzie's own direct comments about Contreras and his injury, the Sox shouldn't be thinking that Jose will give them anything this season.

Based on his age, and injury situation the previous two years, there is a reasonable chance he is completely finished.

We'll see.

Lip

Sockinchisox
01-15-2009, 12:53 PM
1 yr, 1 mil with incentives for him to earn up to 3 mil.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090114&content_id=3744571&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Procol Harum
01-15-2009, 12:54 PM
If it works, we'll be pleasantly surprised. Otherwise, meh--here's a guy who will probably be a glorified 5th starter with nagging injuries all year, bumping around the .500 level.

Madscout
01-15-2009, 12:55 PM
1 yr, 1 mil with incentives for him to earn up to 3 mil.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090114&content_id=3744571&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
Nice and cheap.

oeo
01-15-2009, 12:59 PM
If it works, we'll be pleasantly surprised. Otherwise, meh--here's a guy who will probably be a glorified 5th starter with nagging injuries all year, bumping around the .500 level.

Maybe they will treat him like they did El Duque a few years ago. Don't overwork him, place him on the DL around midseason to keep his arm fresh. That ended up working out okay.

Then again, Colon may be hurt by his second start.

2906
01-15-2009, 01:01 PM
Based on Ozzie's own direct comments about Contreras and his injury, the Sox shouldn't be thinking that Jose will give them anything this season.

Based on his age, and injury situation the previous two years, there is a reasonable chance he is completely finished.

We'll see.

Lip

I agree Mark, anything they'd get out of Jose is a bonus at this point. They really shouldn't count on anything.

It is a tough injury ... certainly it can heal but then there's the issue of getting his arm back in shape. But he is quite the physical specimen and a workout freak, if anyone can come back it's him.

I think Contreras will do everything he can to pitch at least a month or 6 weeks at the end of 2009. His contract is up after next year and he'll want to show himself, the White Sox, and possibly other teams that he can still contribute for 2010 and 2011.

munchman33
01-15-2009, 01:05 PM
You would think a team so concerned with the bottom line would give that some more thought, but instead discards him because of a **** September and Ozzie's opinion.

It wasn't one bad September, it was a career of faultering when games mattered. Most of us are still glad he's gone.

Thome25
01-15-2009, 01:06 PM
Ok I just thought of something. Does KW's Bartolo Colon fascination go down in history in the same category as his fascination with Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar?

I think it does.

DaveFeelsRight
01-15-2009, 01:11 PM
here's a pitching log of bartolo's games from last year:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Magemasher/log.jpg

nice that he didn't walk many

2906
01-15-2009, 01:12 PM
Ok I just thought of something. Does KW's Bartolo Colon fascination go down in history in the same category as his fascination with Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar?

I think it does.

Nah, I don't think so. I think it's simply a case of Williams thinking this guy is a bargain, he knows how to pitch and he might finally be healthy. They know Colon will be pitching for a contract for 2010 and beyond, plus they know what the guy brings as a teammate, etc. They know Colon and they need pitching. Frankly I think that's as far as it goes.

spawn
01-15-2009, 01:14 PM
:tomatoaward:tomatoaward

SSrep
01-15-2009, 01:19 PM
[quote=DaveFeelsRight;2139317]here's a pitching log of bartolo's games from last year:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Magemasher/log.jpg

What does the * refer to for 6/16 game?

turners56
01-15-2009, 01:20 PM
Nice and cheap.

Yes indeed.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 01:20 PM
It wasn't one bad September, it was a career of faultering when games mattered. Most of us are still glad he's gone.
As is Jeff Marquez, otherwise he'd be where he should be: Charlotte.

turners56
01-15-2009, 01:22 PM
[quote=DaveFeelsRight;2139317]here's a pitching log of bartolo's games from last year:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Magemasher/log.jpg

What does the * refer to for 6/16 game?

He was probably injured that game since there was a three month gap between that start and his next start.

rowand33
01-15-2009, 01:33 PM
Javier Vazquez is a better pitcher than Jon Garland, and I am pretty sure any GM in MLB would agree.

Disagree.

The results certainly don't show this.

Garland 2004-2008:
72-49 with a 4.346 ERA in 1054.1 IP.

Vazquez 2004-2008:
63-61 with a 4.503 ERA in 1041.1 IP

Javy no doubt has better stuff, but I think it's wrong to say he's a better pitcher when numbers don't back that up.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Disagree.

The results certainly don't show this.

Garland 2004-2008:
72-49 with a 4.346 ERA in 1054.1 IP.

Vazquez 2004-2008:
63-61 with a 4.503 ERA in 1041.1 IP

Javy no doubt has better stuff, but I think it's wrong to say he's a better pitcher when numbers don't back that up.
Garland is fading fast, and last year's step back in every way, shape, and form make it pretty obvious who is better.

Carolina Kenny
01-15-2009, 01:39 PM
Based on Ozzie's own direct comments about Contreras and his injury, the Sox shouldn't be thinking that Jose will give them anything this season.

Based on his age, and injury situation the previous two years, there is a reasonable chance he is completely finished.

We'll see.

Lip


As always it's Lip as cheerful as usual. (cranky old man).

munchman33
01-15-2009, 01:39 PM
As is Jeff Marquez, otherwise he'd be where he should be: Charlotte.

I didn't realize Marquez had a decade of proving he wasn't any good.

At least Marquez doesn't cost anything.

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 01:41 PM
Garland is fading fast, and last year's step back in every way, shape, and form make it pretty obvious who is better.

True, he did not have a good year.

14-8, 4.90 ERA, 1.505 WHIP, 91 ERA+, 1.5 K/BB

Javy came in at:

12-16, 4.67 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 98 ERA+, 3.3 K/BB

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 01:43 PM
I didn't realize Marquez had a decade of proving he wasn't any good.

At least Marquez doesn't cost anything.
Are you ever going to address the fact that without Javy this team had no shot of making the postseason?

EMachine10
01-15-2009, 01:45 PM
Are you ever going to address the fact that without Javy this team had no shot of making the postseason?
I'm not convinced they would have any shot of making the postseason with Javy. (I'm not one of those dark cloud guys, don't worry).

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 01:45 PM
True, he did not have a good year.

14-8, 4.90 ERA, 1.505 WHIP, 91 ERA+, 1.5 K/BB

Javy came in at:

12-16, 4.67 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 98 ERA+, 3.3 K/BB
Of course. Through September 17, Javy's ERA was 4.13. He then started a game on short rest, and blew up. It happens.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 01:46 PM
I'm not convinced they would have any shot of making the postseason with Javy. (I'm not one of those dark cloud guys, don't worry).
So you believe in Clayton Richard/Jeff Marquez?

white sox bill
01-15-2009, 01:49 PM
So will Bart accept a demotion to AAA if needed? If only to work things out?

munchman33
01-15-2009, 01:50 PM
So you believe in Clayton Richard/Jeff Marquez?

I believe in Clayton, yes. I doubt he'll do worse than the numbers Javy put up for the season last year.

I really like the Colon move, because now he can fill the #4 role until Contreras comes back (which should be right when Colon starts to break down). Having veterans fill the four spot and leaving the 5 spot for the young guys is a lot better than what we were looking at when the offseason began. It isn't so much Clayton vs. Javy as it is Colon and Contreras vs. Javy.

FedEx227
01-15-2009, 01:50 PM
So will Bart accept a demotion to AAA if needed? If only to work things out?

I doubt it. He wouldn't accept a demotion to the bullpen last year with the Red Sox. Doubt he'd feel real great, going to the minor leagues with us.

munchman33
01-15-2009, 01:52 PM
So will Bart accept a demotion to AAA if needed? If only to work things out?

Probably not. He was suspended for leaving the Red Sox because he was upset he got moved to the pen.

Craig Grebeck
01-15-2009, 01:53 PM
I believe in Clayton, yes. I doubt he'll do worse than the numbers Javy put up for the season last year.

I really like the Colon move, because now he can fill the #4 role until Contreras comes back (which should be right when Colon starts to break down). Having veterans fill the four spot and leaving the 5 spot for the young guys is a lot better than what we were looking at when the offseason began. It isn't so much Clayton vs. Javy as it is Colon and Contreras vs. Javy.
It's no guarantee that Colon makes it through the first month. With Vazquez, you've got an eternally healthy pitcher who, at his worst, will post an ERA above league average with over 200 innings. At his best, like we saw in 2007, he can be a solid no. 2. Richard? He will not post similar numbers to Vazquez in any way, shape, or form next season. It's not happening.

hawkjt
01-15-2009, 01:55 PM
The fact that Kenny even gave Bart 1 million tells me that Kenny thinks he has enough left to help the Sox reasonably significantly.
Has he really had much arm troubles of late..I know last year it was his back.
For Gods sakes,in interleague play ,just send him up there with no intention of swinging even once. At most ,bunt, and do not run hard.

If we get half a year of 5-6 inning starts out of Bart, it will be a good deal.

munchman33
01-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Are you ever going to address the fact that without Javy this team had no shot of making the postseason?

As opposed to who? The guy had 12 wins and lost 16 games with an ERA near 5. And he made over $10 million to do so.

munchman33
01-15-2009, 01:59 PM
It's no guarantee that Colon makes it through the first month. With Vazquez, you've got an eternally healthy pitcher who, at his worst, will post an ERA above league average with over 200 innings. At his best, like we saw in 2007, he can be a solid no. 2. Richard? He will not post similar numbers to Vazquez in any way, shape, or form next season. It's not happening.

Javy's "best" wouldn't show up if the team was competitive. We would get 4.60+ era Javy, or worse. We know Colon can pitch well, he was even doing so last year. And the salary difference is astronomical.

What is it about Clayton Richard that doesn't make you think he can have even a terrible season like Javy did last year?

EMachine10
01-15-2009, 02:03 PM
So you believe in Clayton Richard/Jeff Marquez?
Did I say that?

slavko
01-15-2009, 02:06 PM
If Marquez wins 18 games twice for the Sox, we'd all be doing jumping jacks. Garland isn't dominating, but he's been a very steady major league pitcher for a while now. This criticism isn't warranted. He also did very well in the post-season for the Sox. Without Jon, no 2005 World Championship.

Don't confuse them with facts. Stick to the script.

jabrch
01-15-2009, 02:09 PM
The fact that Kenny even gave Bart 1 million tells me that Kenny thinks he has enough left to help the Sox reasonably significantly.

It leads me to believe that KW thinks that whatever the odds are of he succeed, it is worth the $1mm risk Maybe he thinks it is 80/20 against, but 20% chance of success times 10mm of value = 2mm which is greater than the cost. Who knows?

I'm very much indifferent to this move until I see how it plays out. No way I can have an opinion at this point in time without seeing Bartolo throw a bit.

khan
01-15-2009, 02:13 PM
I'd categorize this as an "OK" move by KW, bringing on a desperately-needed veteran SP to what is now a depleted starting rotation. At 1/3 the MLB average salary. [With incentives, Big Bart will achieve the MLB average of $3M/yr.]

To me, the cost for what is typically one of the most expensive positions in MLB doesn't inspire confidence in Colon's abilities and durability. To me, anyway. While its a nice gamble at a great price, it also speaks volumes about Colon's current valuation in the market. That KW did not tack on an option further speaks volumes. But, all things considered, given the current state of the team, in THIS economy, with the extant players in place, I see it as a "might help/can't hurt" signing.


As to the other discussion in this thread:

I maintain that it was a stupid/rash move to trade Vazquez. If you look at his game chart, Vazquez was pitching well until the coaching staff panicked and went to a 4-man rotation. Yes, Vazquez crapped his pants in big-game situations. But without Vazquez's IP, the team wouldn't have made game #163. Without Vazquez's IP, the bullpen that struggled through injuries to Jenks and Linebrink would have been used more, potentially leading to even more injuries. [Or at a minimum, more Boone Logan and Mike MacDougal appearances.]

Given the totality of what Vazquez provides, AT his contract number, I'd still rather have Vazquez at #4 than Colon at HIS contract. I have a suspicion that one of either Floyd/Danks will regress. I have little-to-no faith in Richard/Broadway/Marquez. And I don't think that the bullpen will be as effective this season, in part due to the reduced IP produced by the starting rotation. [And in part due to the fact that Ozzie only wants to use 3 RPs.] For these reasons [and others], Vazquez should have been here this season.

But, we shall see...

CubKilla
01-15-2009, 02:15 PM
OK smart man, who the **** did you expect Ozzie to throw out there for game 1, Sandy Koufax? It's like Ozzie was going to pull a miracle out of his ass to start game 1. There was no one available to pitch that game.

Talk about beating a dead horse.

Once again, my statement must have gone over your head. I realize that Ozzie and the Sox starters were coming off WINNING the big, consecutive games to make it to the playoffs. Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, all stepped up when needed. That left "little-to-nothing in the big games" Vazquez for Game 1 of the ALDS. He could have silenced all his critics by going out there and pitching 6-7 innings of 1-2 run baseball after being given a lead early by the Sox. But, in typical Javy form, he crapped his pants just like almost everyone that knows the Sox said he would and he left the Sox more behind the 8-Ball than they were just going into the Series because of what the Sox had to do to get there.

Good riddance. I'll take the flier on Colon.

voodoochile
01-15-2009, 02:22 PM
1 yr, 1 mil with incentives for him to earn up to 3 mil.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090114&content_id=3744571&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Perfect.

EMachine10
01-15-2009, 02:30 PM
Perfect.
Agreed. Can't argue with that.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 02:36 PM
Once again, my statement must have gone over your head. I realize that Ozzie and the Sox starters were coming off WINNING the big, consecutive games to make it to the playoffs. Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, all stepped up when needed. That left "little-to-nothing in the big games" Vazquez for Game 1 of the ALDS. He could have silenced all his critics by going out there and pitching 6-7 innings of 1-2 run baseball after being given a lead early by the Sox. But, in typical Javy form, he crapped his pants just like almost everyone that knows the Sox said he would and he left the Sox more behind the 8-Ball than they were just going into the Series because of what the Sox had to do to get there.

Good riddance. I'll take the flier on Colon.

You're pointing to 1-5 games and missing the point that he was solid enough the rest of the season - you know, all those other games it took to get to your Game 1.

You are admitting you think he is trash because of one game.

That is not solid logic.

35th&Shields
01-15-2009, 03:00 PM
Yay? :scratch:

Hell, yay. Four years ago he won a Cy Young Award and we are only on the hook for $1 Million? Great deal for the White Sox. Low risk, high reward potential. If he wants one last good contract, he knows he has to bring it in '09 on the South Side.

Welcome back, Bartolo.

CubKilla
01-15-2009, 03:12 PM
You're pointing to 1-5 games and missing the point that he was solid enough the rest of the season - you know, all those other games it took to get to your Game 1.

You are admitting you think he is trash because of one game.

That is not solid logic.

The 4.67 ERA pretty much points to him being garbage the entire 2008 season though. The sub .500 record too.

RCWHITESOX
01-15-2009, 03:20 PM
Eh. Seems like everyone else is signing aging injury prone starters, why not try one ourselves? At least it's something...

If were not rebuilding I see it as a good decision. It's a win win situation if he succeeds and a no lose situation if he fails in a one year 1 million dollar contract.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 03:46 PM
The 4.67 ERA pretty much points to him being garbage the entire 2008 season though. The sub .500 record too.

He was 10-12 with a 4.38 ERA in 176.2 IP before 9/1/08. Yes, those numbers are disappointing. No, they are not top of rotation numbers. But they're decent enough, when combined with his durability, to make him worth his contract.

RedPinStripes
01-15-2009, 03:50 PM
He was 10-12 with a 4.38 ERA in 176.2 IP before 9/1/08. Yes, those numbers are disappointing. No, they are not top of rotation numbers. But they're decent enough, when combined with his durability, to make him worth his contract.


And that's exactly what's wrong with baseball. He's not worth what he was making.

DaveFeelsRight
01-15-2009, 03:54 PM
i know some of you guys dont feel the same way, but, i feel a lot more comfortable with the sox rotation now.

RedPinStripes
01-15-2009, 03:57 PM
i know some of you guys dont feel the same way, but, i feel a lot more comfortable with the sox rotation now.

It's still a big question mark like most of the roster. Everytime I predict, I'm wrong so I'm just going to trust Kenny. Makes things easier.

DaveFeelsRight
01-15-2009, 04:02 PM
It's still a big question mark like most of the roster. Everytime I predict, I'm wrong so I'm just going to trust Kenny. Makes things easier.he's will get injured, but if he can give us what orlando hernandez gave us in 05 then its worth it. also, it will take a load off the two young guys the sox are counting on to take the 4 and 5 spots.

Frontman
01-15-2009, 04:34 PM
It's a 1 mil deal, with an upside of 3 mil if he hits all his goals. I have zero problem with this type of move; as IF he's healthy, he makes the 5 man rotation as a pitcher with October experience.

doublem23
01-15-2009, 04:39 PM
i know some of you guys dont feel the same way, but, i feel a lot more comfortable with the sox rotation now.

You can't look at Colon and think he's going to hold down a spot in the rotation the full season. Right now, he's just another name in the Race to fill the 4th and 5th spots. If we get some good innings out fo him great, but if he crashes and burns, well, I'm not going to be very surprised.

Nellie_Fox
01-15-2009, 04:45 PM
It's a 1 mil deal, with an upside of 3 mil if he hits all his goals. I have zero problem with this type of move.
http://timstvshowcase.com/eubanks.jpg

"Oh, so sorry, you lose. But no one goes away empty-handed; as a consolation you get the home version of the game and a million bucks!"

spiffie
01-15-2009, 04:48 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16850&highlight=esteban+loaiza

Ironically the one person on this board who saw potential in Esteban Loaiza was the infamous jeremyb1. Everyone else called it a "waste" or just thought it was filler.

Remember, outside of one or two people on this board (Daver, ondafarm when he was around) you could combine all of our collective knowledge about baseball and it wouldn't be 1/100th that of Kenny Williams. Trust him. If he wanted Colon, expect good things from Big Bart.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 04:54 PM
Remember, outside of one or two people on this board (Daver, ondafarm when he was around) you could combine all of our collective knowledge about baseball and it wouldn't be 1/100th that of Kenny Williams. Trust him. If he wanted Colon, expect good things from Big Bart.

He also wanted Todd Ritchie.

DaveFeelsRight
01-15-2009, 05:03 PM
You can't look at Colon and think he's going to hold down a spot in the rotation the full season. Right now, he's just another name in the Race to fill the 4th and 5th spots. If we get some good innings out fo him great, but if he crashes and burns, well, I'm not going to be very surprised.my response to this:

he will get injured, but if he can give us what orlando hernandez gave us in 05 then its worth it. also, it will take a load off the two young guys the sox are counting on to take the 4 and 5 spots.

Frontman
01-15-2009, 05:08 PM
http://timstvshowcase.com/eubanks.jpg

"Oh, so sorry, you lose. But no one goes away empty-handed; as a consolation you get the home version of the game and a million bucks!"

So, what's exactly your point? That he shouldn't get paid at all, or that the Sox shouldn't of signed a veteran pitcher?

VeeckAsInWreck
01-15-2009, 05:09 PM
He also wanted Todd Ritchie.

Good god! Will you let that go. That was like what, 7 years ago? Not all GM's make perfect moves. KW is not perfect but he's been right more times that he's been wrong.

Bartolo is not being brought here to be the ace. He's just being given the chance to be our #4 starter and I'm ok with that.

Frontman
01-15-2009, 05:12 PM
Good god! Will you let that go. That was like what, 7 years ago? Not all GM's make perfect moves. KW is not perfect but he's been right more times that he's been wrong.

Bartolo is not being brought here to be the ace. He's just being given the chance to be our #4 starter and I'm ok with that.

And Coop even said today with conditions. IE If he ain't healthy, he ain't starting.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 05:18 PM
Good god! Will you let that go. That was like what, 7 years ago? Not all GM's make perfect moves. KW is not perfect but he's been right more times that he's been wrong.

Bartolo is not being brought here to be the ace. He's just being given the chance to be our #4 starter and I'm ok with that.

I'm just kinda sick of the whole "Trust in KW" mantra I was responding to. Loaiza was a great move. Ritchie was not. Quentin was a great move. Erstad was not.

He makes great moves. He makes bad moves. That's a GM for you.

spiffie
01-15-2009, 05:21 PM
I'm just kinda sick of the whole "Trust in KW" mantra I was responding to. Loaiza was a great move. Ritchie was not. Quentin was a great move. Erstad was not.

He makes great moves. He makes bad moves. That's a GM for you.
His great moves tend to be great. His bad moves are generally very small and easily forgotten. Hence having to go back to Todd Ritchie to find a failure of any magnitude. No, not every one KW picks up is awesome. But no one has a better record of finding guys who turn out to be huge returns on low investment.

And really, even if KW isn't perfect, he is a hell of a lot better than any of us would be. So just relax and enjoy it.