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JohnTucker0814
01-12-2009, 11:02 AM
Text of a quick interview on MiLB.com with Tyler Flowers. Seems like a decent kid, hope he can stay behind the plate and be helpful as a catcher!

http://http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090112&content_id=3740012&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Marqhead
01-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Link doesn't work.

voodoochile
01-12-2009, 11:11 AM
link no worky

JermaineDye05
01-12-2009, 11:13 AM
This one should work...

Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090112&content_id=3740012&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

WhiteSox1989
01-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Nice read.

He's pretty young. What is he, 23?

oeo
01-12-2009, 11:24 AM
Nice read.

He's pretty young. What is he, 23?

Turns 23 next Saturday.

102605
01-12-2009, 11:32 AM
I hope he stays off the 100+mph Go-Karts.

Lip Man 1
01-12-2009, 11:47 AM
I hope he loses some weight.

Lip

voodoochile
01-12-2009, 11:53 AM
I hope he loses some weight.

Lip

6'4" 220 isn't exactly fat...

doublem23
01-12-2009, 12:31 PM
6'4" 220 isn't exactly fat...

Yeah, that's a BMI around 27, which is a bit overweight for your average Joe Schmo, but it's pretty normal for athletes.

DirtySox
01-12-2009, 12:54 PM
I hope we get a better picture of his T-Flow Tattoo.

KyWhiSoxFan
01-12-2009, 06:57 PM
I hope the Sox make sure he does not drive any go-carts.

And I sure hope he can be movitated or finds self-motivation. I don't like the part of the interview where he says "The biggest challenge is definitely going to the field every day with the mindset to continuously work hard everyday. You realize it's a long season and I think the hardest part is staying motivated everyday when obviously that's what you're supposed to do."

I would have preferred he had said he was out there busting his butt every day to be the best catcher in baseball and that he loves working hard to fulfill has dreams and ambitions.

hi im skot
01-12-2009, 07:25 PM
I hope he loses some weight.

Lip

I hope he stays off the juice for good.

spawn
01-13-2009, 09:03 AM
I hope he loses some weight.

Lip

6'4" 220 isn't exactly fat...
No kidding. Jim Thome is listed as 6'3", 255 lbs. Paul Konerko is listed as 6'2", 220 lbs. Jermaine Dye? 6'5", 245 lbs. Carlos Quentin is 6'2", 220 lbs. Seems Flowers fits right in with this group, and I haven't heard anyone saying these guys need to lose weight.

jabrch
01-13-2009, 12:20 PM
I hope he stays off the juice for good.


Or that he finds undetectable juice.

champagne030
01-13-2009, 09:51 PM
6'4" 220 isn't exactly fat...

He hasn't sniffed 220 in a few years. That's the reported weight he signed at years ago.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l119&t=p_pbp&pid=452095

And he was a lot heavier than that this past November. Hopefully he's been put on a workout/weight loss program. He's not LeCroy fat at this point, but he's also very young and pushing maximum density.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-13-2009, 10:03 PM
He hasn't sniffed 220 in a few years. That's the reported weight he signed at years ago.

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l119&t=p_pbp&pid=452095

And he was a lot heavier than that this past November. Hopefully he's been put on a workout/weight loss program. He's not LeCroy fat at this point, but he's also very young and pushing maximum density.Wow, he is a fatty. I thought we were going for young and quick!? :tongue: Now that pro-ball is in his mind though, I'm sure he'll start slimming down... maybe. All I know is he's pretty good and that he might be a new 1st baseman... they can be fat. xD

Lip Man 1
01-14-2009, 08:38 AM
Chicago Tribune Live had some scouts on the phone when this all went down and I was struck by what they said about the kid.

(Direct quote) "He's borderline fat, and has to learn to play the catcher position. If he can't he's another slow first base / DH type."

So basically if this kid can't cut it at catcher he's another base clogging, station to station type....supposedly the type of player the Sox are trying to get away from.

I hope he can learn to catch otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Lip

Craig Grebeck
01-14-2009, 08:52 AM
Chicago Tribune Live had some scouts on the phone when this all went down and I was struck by what they said about the kid.

(Direct quote) "He's borderline fat, and has to learn to play the catcher position. If he can't he's another slow first base / DH type."

So basically if this kid can't cut it at catcher he's another base clogging, station to station type....supposedly the type of player the Sox are trying to get away from.

I hope he can learn to catch otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Lip
Good hitters are valuable, and, just so you know, not many catchers are fleet of foot. I'm not sure what your point is, considering it should be our priority to acquire good hitters first and foremost.

JohnTucker0814
01-14-2009, 08:54 AM
Chicago Tribune Live had some scouts on the phone when this all went down and I was struck by what they said about the kid.

(Direct quote) "He's borderline fat, and has to learn to play the catcher position. If he can't he's another slow first base / DH type."

So basically if this kid can't cut it at catcher he's another base clogging, station to station type....supposedly the type of player the Sox are trying to get away from.

I hope he can learn to catch otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Lip

How many first basement in this league are fast? Our current "cloggers" at 1B and DH aren't exactly young, we still need to replace that position within the next year to 2 years. I'm thrilled with this trade.

If Flowers is not able to catch, then him and Allen will be the 1B/DH combo for the next 5 - 10 years! I see no problem with that!

oeo
01-14-2009, 10:44 AM
Chicago Tribune Live had some scouts on the phone when this all went down and I was struck by what they said about the kid.

(Direct quote) "He's borderline fat, and has to learn to play the catcher position. If he can't he's another slow first base / DH type."

So basically if this kid can't cut it at catcher he's another base clogging, station to station type....supposedly the type of player the Sox are trying to get away from.

I hope he can learn to catch otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Lip

Paul Konerko and Jim Thome are not going to be here forever.

Konerko05
01-14-2009, 03:10 PM
Chicago Tribune Live had some scouts on the phone when this all went down and I was struck by what they said about the kid.

(Direct quote) "He's borderline fat, and has to learn to play the catcher position. If he can't he's another slow first base / DH type."

So basically if this kid can't cut it at catcher he's another base clogging, station to station type....supposedly the type of player the Sox are trying to get away from.

I hope he can learn to catch otherwise this doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Lip

You're worried about a C/1B/DH being slow?

The Sox are trying to get away from players who can actually hit? That's news to me.

The Sox might be trying to add a little speed to the roster, but that doesn't mean they are willing to rid themselves of all good hitters because they are slow.

So far this kid seems like a very good offensive player. He has power, a decent average, and very good knowledge of the strike zone. His jump to AA this season will be very interesting.

Flowers having to make the move to 1B of DH wouldn't be the worst thing the world. The Sox will need someone to replace Konerko and Thome. I hope he improves defensively and he stays behind the plate.

JohnTucker0814
01-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Another note is that Flowers moved back to C this year after having some minor knee issues that put him at 1B. His defense may improve greatly with more experience behind the plate.

Lip Man 1
01-14-2009, 04:33 PM
Absolutely the Sox are going to need to fill the first base / DH spot in a few years.

But based on what Kenny has said himself, the key to this deal was Flowers becoming an "All Star caliber" catcher. I didn't read or hear Kenny at anytime talking about the deal being made because he's a potential first baseman....so I think the question is still valid, if he can't catch then the purpose of the deal was what?

Lip

jabrch
01-14-2009, 04:36 PM
(Direct quote) "He's borderline fat, and has to learn to play the catcher position. If he can't he's another slow first base / DH type."

So basically if this kid can't cut it at catcher he's another base clogging, station to station type....supposedly the type of player the Sox are trying to get away from.

Lip

Those boarderline fat, base clogging station to station guys...they suck.

Ryan Howard
Adam Dunn
Carlos Delgado
Manny Ramirez
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Gonzalez
Prince Fielder
Jim Thome
Jermaine Dye
Pat Burell

If Flowers is a good hitter, I don't care if he is slow footed or not. I don't care if he is a "base clogger" (is there a dumber phrase than that in the game right now?) And I don't care if my 1B can't score from first on a sharply hit double and won't go from 1st to 3rd on most singles.

Lip - I really believe you spend a lot of effort reaching for things to complain about. What Flowers is or isn't, for a guy who says he is worried about today and not the minors, is a surprising issue to get you going.

Daver
01-14-2009, 04:39 PM
Good hitters are valuable, and, just so you know, not many catchers are fleet of foot. I'm not sure what your point is, considering it should be our priority to acquire good hitters first and foremost.

It's the White Sox way, if you can hit you'll fit, even if you field your position with your face.

Yay.

Craig Grebeck
01-14-2009, 04:56 PM
It's the White Sox way, if you can hit you'll fit, even if you field your position with your face.

Yay.
True. I should have phrased it better.

Now, of course KW will put the company spin on Flowers and say he will stick at catcher. Will he? Perhaps not. But, if he's our 1B/DH, his defense isn't as important as if he played on any other spot on the diamond.

Lip Man 1
01-15-2009, 10:27 AM
Jab:

It's not getting me going at all I just found the dynamic interesting that Kenny said the key to the Vazquez deal was this kid at a particular position. (which is hard to come by)

Yet there are others who make their living in the game saying the kid has issues at that particular position.

It'll be fascinating to see how this plays out and who turns out to be right in the end.

Feel free to return to your normal programming at this time.

Lip

jabrch
01-15-2009, 08:36 PM
Jab:

It's not getting me going at all I just found the dynamic interesting that Kenny said the key to the Vazquez deal was this kid at a particular position. (which is hard to come by)

Yet there are others who make their living in the game saying the kid has issues at that particular position.

It'll be fascinating to see how this plays out and who turns out to be right in the end.

Feel free to return to your normal programming at this time.

Lip


Lip - you pick an arbitrary time to be concerned about the minor league system after you just said it doesn't concern you.

Lip Man 1
01-16-2009, 09:47 AM
Jab:

Not concerned about the minor league system. Concerned about Kenny's comments on making the deal in the first place if said reasoning turns out to be faulty.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2009, 04:18 PM
Jab:

Not concerned about the minor league system. Concerned about Kenny's comments on making the deal in the first place if said reasoning turns out to be faulty.

Lip
But you don't care about the minor league system...

You might as well not even root for a professional baseball organization (or at least claim to be any more than a casual fan) if you don't give a damn about the minors.

Daver
01-16-2009, 04:54 PM
But you don't care about the minor league system...

You might as well not even root for a professional baseball organization (or at least claim to be any more than a casual fan) if you don't give a damn about the minors.

Now you're telling people how to be a fan?


If you want to dispense wisdom you should probably learn some first.

Lip Man 1
01-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Next Craig will be telling me to start memorizing stats like OBP, adjusted defensive numbers and the usual blarney that mathematicians talk about when "analyzing" MLB.

Guess that makes them good fans eh?

LOL

Lip

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Now you're telling people how to be a fan?


If you want to dispense wisdom you should probably learn some first.
Please, Daver. I'm not going to give Lip any credit when he tells people he doesn't care about the minor league system and then turns around and asks questions about it. He doesn't have to dismiss those who actually care about the entire organization.
Next Craig will be telling me to start memorizing stats like OBP, adjusted defensive numbers and the usual blarney that mathematicians talk about when "analyzing" MLB.
OBP is definitely the work of a skilled mathematician. You sniffed that one out Lip.

Daver
01-16-2009, 06:52 PM
Please, Daver. I'm not going to give Lip any credit when he tells people he doesn't care about the minor league system and then turns around and asks questions about it. He doesn't have to dismiss those who actually care about the entire organization.


He asked a question about a single player that may or may not be on this years 25 man roster. Their are a huge number of baseball fans that have no interest in player development, it does not make them less a fan, just like the fact that you do can imply you are more of a fan, all it does is make you like arrogant fool. If that is how you wish to be percieved so be it.

Dan Mega
01-16-2009, 07:02 PM
Next Craig will be telling me to start memorizing stats like OBP, adjusted defensive numbers and the usual blarney that mathematicians talk about when "analyzing" MLB.

Guess that makes them good fans eh?

LOL

Lip

To be fair, OBP and OPS are useful. I'm no stathead but I think they are good gauges.

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2009, 07:09 PM
He asked a question about a single player that may or may not be on this years 25 man roster. Their are a huge number of baseball fans that have no interest in player development, it does not make them less a fan, just like the fact that you do can imply you are more of a fan, all it does is make you like arrogant fool. If that is how you wish to be percieved so be it.
As far as sticking my nose in the "here and now", my opinion frankly is this. Concerning myself with what is going on in the minor leagues would be fine if I were a fan of the Padres, Royals or Brewers.

The Chicago White Sox are in a major market.

In my opinion, their fans shouldn't have to worry nor give a tinker's cuss (I always wanted to use that phrase!) about what John Doe from Podunk, Arkansas is doing is Double AA. The White Sox should be run like the other big market teams...i.e. they get the young stars off the garbage clubs when those teams can't or won't afford to pay to keep them, by trading all these "can't miss kids" whom never seem to cut it with the Sox (especially pitching.) That's the way the big boys play the game...the Sox should be right there with them.

Lip posted this just the other day. I just think this is the epitome of a totally false and simplistic ideology about how baseball teams are run. Basically, he is saying that concerning himself with the minor leagues is a waste of time. Then why even bother asking about Flowers? He's clearly set a precedent for himself, and already told people not to give a "tinker's cuss" about any minor leaguer.

My tone and phrasing were a bit harsh, so I apologize for that.

Daver
01-16-2009, 07:25 PM
Lip posted this just the other day. I just think this is the epitome of a totally false and simplistic ideology about how baseball teams are run. Basically, he is saying that concerning himself with the minor leagues is a waste of time. Then why even bother asking about Flowers? He's clearly set a precedent for himself, and already told people not to give a "tinker's cuss" about any minor leaguer.

My tone and phrasing were a bit harsh, so I apologize for that.

Only because you interpret it that way, and your view is biased. Approach ten Sox fans in the parking lot before a game and ask them for an opinion on Jordan Danks, I'll bet at least seven of them will say, "don't you mean John?"

His view on how the business of baseball works is probably a lot closer to the truth than yours.

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Only because you interpret it that way, and your view is biased. Approach ten Sox fans in the parking lot before a game and ask them for an opinion on Jordan Danks, I'll bet at least seven of them will say, "don't you mean John?"

His view on how the business of baseball works is probably a lot closer to the truth than yours.
Not really, especially considering his opinion of how major market teams work.

Daver
01-16-2009, 07:46 PM
Not really, especially considering his opinion of how major market teams work.

And how do major market teams work, can you explain it to me?

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2009, 07:53 PM
And how do major market teams work, can you explain it to me?
i.e. they get the young stars off the garbage clubs when those teams can't or won't afford to pay to keep them, by trading all these "can't miss kids" whom never seem to cut it with the Sox (especially pitching.)
I can tell you one thing, that's not how they work. It happens from time to time (Jason Bay to the Red Sox), but if you look at the Yankees and especially the Red Sox (the two biggest fish in the AL market wise), they have made it a priority recently to have good minor league systems not only for the purpose of trading them off to small market teams, but also in order to work them into the lineup.

Successful teams even more than major market teams have made it a priority to develop good teams in the major leagues while maintaining good personnel in the minor leagues.

Daver
01-16-2009, 08:03 PM
I can tell you one thing, that's not how they work. It happens from time to time (Jason Bay to the Red Sox), but if you look at the Yankees and especially the Red Sox (the two biggest fish in the AL market wise), they have made it a priority recently to have good minor league systems not only for the purpose of trading them off to small market teams, but also in order to work them into the lineup.

Successful teams even more than major market teams have made it a priority to develop good teams in the major leagues while maintaining a good personnel in the minor leagues.

Recent is a relative term, who did Josh Beckett pitch for before joining the Red Sox?

And what has Kenny williams done with the talent from the White Sox farm system in recent years? And what percentage of the fan base knew who Chris Young was when he was traded, or Jeremy Reed? (Not to be confused with Jimmy Reed because he stubbornly remains dead.)

Craig Grebeck
01-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Recent is a relative term, who did Josh Beckett pitch for before joining the Red Sox?

And what has Kenny williams done with the talent from the White Sox farm system in recent years? And what percentage of the fan base knew who Chris Young was when he was traded, or Jeremy Reed? (Not to be confused with Jimmy Reed because he stubbornly remains dead.)
Well, Beckett pitched for the Marlins (it should be mentioned who the Red Sox gave up -- none other than the best shortstop in the game!). I understand that.

I know KW hasn't dealt away much, I just wish the cupboard was a little more full. Being good in MLB and being good in the minors aren't mutually exclusive.

Daver
01-16-2009, 08:15 PM
Well, Beckett pitched for the Marlins (it should be mentioned who the Red Sox gave up -- none other than the best shortstop in the game!). I understand that.


The best SS in the game plays third base for the Yankees.

jabrch
01-16-2009, 09:02 PM
The best SS in the game plays third base for the Yankees.

How good a SS do you think he'd be after not playing the position for a few years?

Daver
01-16-2009, 09:06 PM
How good a SS do you think he'd be after not playing the position for a few years?

He'd still be the best SS in game overall.

jabrch
01-17-2009, 12:47 AM
He'd still be the best SS in game overall.

I'd be curious to watch him field the position. We know his offense would be top, but I'd want to see him play D before putting him ahead of Hanley Ramirez or even Jose Reyes.

BadBobbyJenks
01-17-2009, 03:04 AM
I'd be curious to watch him field the position. We know his offense would be top, but I'd want to see him play D before putting him ahead of Hanley Ramirez or even Jose Reyes.

Well Hanley is pretty bad defensively at short.

Craig Grebeck
01-17-2009, 08:22 AM
Well Hanley is pretty bad defensively at short.
He (supposedly) made some pretty amazing strides this season.

Lip Man 1
01-17-2009, 11:53 AM
Craig:

Allow me to clarify my intentions since I think you have misunderstood them, then I've got to clean up and head out to the gameday shoot around.

My interest in Flowers is purely based upon the fact that this deal for better or worse is going to impact the 2009 White Sox. (I suspect it will be the second possibility.) Not in how it will impact the Sox minor league system.

The "key" to this deal in Kenny's own words was getting Flowers as a "potential future All Star caliber catcher." (and an important secondary reason to remove Vazquez's salary off the books and help trim payroll.)

Will those signed to replace Javy's average numbers (12 wins, 200 innings) be able to do so? We'll see. Will Flowers ever become an "All-Star caliber catcher?" we'll see.

History shows that Kenny has not had success regarding the Sox minor league system overall since he was involved in it beginning in the late 90's...that's a fact not speculation.

His best success has come in shipping off these (in my opinion) overhyped prospects to get real, actual, major league players who have demonstrated some success at the big league level. That is his strength and that is what he should continue to do in my opinion because history shows that's the only thing that's worked.

At this point in time I have no reason to think that Flowers will be anything but another in this line. I wasn't searching for the scouts comments on Chicago Tribune Live! I tape it everyday and scan through it to get Sox news. I found it very interesting that they did not regard Flowers in the same vein that apparently Kenny does (through his own directly commented words.)

I will be watching to see how this deal turns out both in the future (say three years) but more importantly this year, because Vazquez and his 12 or so wins and 200 innings is not here anymore replace by more "maybe's" and the possibility (how large I don't know) of getting an "All-Star caliber catcher."

It doesn't mean that I am contradicting myself in my opinion on minor leaguers in general or the Sox minor league system. I am however very interested to see if this ultimately goes into the success or failure column for Kenny.

Lip

rdivaldi
01-17-2009, 03:42 PM
He (supposedly) made some pretty amazing strides this season.

Yes, but he's still not in A-Rod's class defensively.

KyWhiSoxFan
01-17-2009, 10:23 PM
I will be watching to see how this deal turns out both in the future (say three years) but more importantly this year, because Vazquez and his 12 or so wins and 200 innings is not here anymore replace by more "maybe's" and the possibility (how large I don't know) of getting an "All-Star caliber catcher."

Vazquez's 12 wins came in 33 starts. He was 4 games under .500 and had a losing record on a team that won 88 games, and he was the only starting pitcher with a losing record (of the five starters who started the season). He made $11.5-million a year. He will not be missed.

The value was getting rid of him, his losing record, big salary, and inability to pitch under any kind of pressure. What they got for him is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. The point is KW was able to find someone to take $23-million in salary off the Sox books and still get some players in return that may--or may not--make it to the majors. This is addition by subtraction (the team's ability to manage their payroll).

When people just toss around players and inning eaten or Ks or what have you, you have to keep in mind what production you get for that money. The Sox were not getting anything of substance from Vazquez for the kind of money they were paying him. 11 and half million is a lot of money.

Daver
01-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Vazquez's 12 wins came in 33 starts. He was 4 games under .500 and had a losing record on a team that won 88 games, and he was the only starting pitcher with a losing record (of the five starters who started the season). He made $11.5-million a year. He will not be missed.

The value was getting rid of him, his losing record, big salary, and inability to pitch under any kind of pressure. What they got for him is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Starting pitching is the most valuable commodity in all of baseball, pitchers that throw 200+ innings a year don't grow on trees, and the Sox haven't been able to produce one from their system in a long time.

rdivaldi
01-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Starting pitching is the most valuable commodity in all of baseball, pitchers that throw 200+ innings a year don't grow on trees, and the Sox haven't been able to produce one from their system in a long time.

You're both right in this case. Javy had worn out his welcome with his anti-clutch performances, but still ate up innings and had his fair share of brilliant games. KW rolled the dice, who knows what will be the result?

NLaloosh
01-19-2009, 08:42 AM
I think the Sox are okay here. I'm pretty sure that Clayton Richard could take the ball every 5th day and throw 190 innings at nearly the effectiveness of Vazquez. Yes, Javy has much better stuff but he was such a disappointment and especially in meaningful games.

I would rather have a combination and depth of Colon, Richard, Contreras and hopefully Garcia and Marti and the return on Javy than have Javy back for his salary.

In my opinion, the Sox have almost the same chance of winning with Vazquez or Richard on the hill.

oeo
01-19-2009, 11:30 PM
I think the Sox are okay here. I'm pretty sure that Clayton Richard could take the ball every 5th day and throw 190 innings at nearly the effectiveness of Vazquez. Yes, Javy has much better stuff but he was such a disappointment and especially in meaningful games.

I would rather have a combination and depth of Colon, Richard, Contreras and hopefully Garcia and Marti and the return on Javy than have Javy back for his salary.

In my opinion, the Sox have almost the same chance of winning with Vazquez or Richard on the hill.

Over the course of a 162 game season? No way.

And Clayton Richard needs to learn how to get out of the fourth inning before I'm going to expect 190 innings from him.

NLaloosh
01-20-2009, 09:51 AM
Over the course of a 162 game season? No way.

And Clayton Richard needs to learn how to get out of the fourth inning before I'm going to expect 190 innings from him.

After all these years Vazquez still needs to learn how to get out of the fifth inning.