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View Full Version : Sign Jon Garland and Freddy Garcia


sunofgold
01-09-2009, 10:07 PM
Make them your 4th and 5th starters. Garland's value is declining and you can sign him for a reasonable deal. He is coming up his worst career season (ERA and BAA), however he can definitely rebound.

He should be able to put up number comparable or better to Vazquez's last year. However, he has proven that he can pitch well at the end of the season in pressure situations.

Garcia is coming off injury. Sign him to a very low base contract with a lot of incentives. This guy knows how to pitch even if his velocity is down. If he can stay healthy, he would be a better 5th starter than what we have right now.

If injuries overcome Garcia, then we still have some decent young options in Poreda, Marquez, and Richard. Would prefer to see Richard as an other left handed option out of the bullpen.

At the very least , sign Garland as a fourth starter and then let the youngsters battle for the 5th spot. Cannot go into the season with two fairly unproven and unexperienced starters.

jabrch
01-09-2009, 10:21 PM
Let's reunite the band!

Garcia is toast. Garland I'd take if he wants #3/#4 money - but not for #2 money.

sunofgold
01-09-2009, 10:26 PM
Rowand in CF. Better than what we have now. Should have signed him last year. hahaha! Now the Giants have him locked up for awhile.

guillensdisciple
01-09-2009, 10:26 PM
Sigh.

Whitesoxfan23
01-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Sigh.

Sigh all you want, but it would probably be better than who we have in those spots now. Some of you need to get your heads out of the sand.

WhiteSox5187
01-09-2009, 10:51 PM
Sigh all you want, but it would probably be better than who we have in those spots now. Some of you need to get your heads out of the sand.
I think Garland would be a nice addition, but Garcia is done. I'd rather take a chance with the likes of Broadway or Richards than Garcia's arm.

spawn
01-09-2009, 10:52 PM
I wonder if Damaso Marte and Cliff Politte are available?

KyWhiSoxFan
01-09-2009, 11:01 PM
I wonder if Damaso Marte and Cliff Politte are available?

Or maybe Dustin Hermanson.

chunk
01-09-2009, 11:03 PM
Marte signed for good money with the yankees.

We really dodged a bullet not signing Rowand though.

itsnotrequired
01-09-2009, 11:43 PM
i would have no problem with garland on the team.

:shrug:

sunofgold
01-10-2009, 12:08 AM
Don't know if Guillen would have confidence in him. haah! He sucked in 2005. 1.72 WHIP. W@W! But, actually, has rebounded nicely the last few years. Put him in Logan previous spot and that would be an upgrade.

Rowand signed a huge contract, but I would have liked to sign him. Expensive, but way better than Owens and/or Anderson. We dodged a bullet by not signing Fuku. $12M/year almost for a backup outfielder. Ouch! Anderson is better than Fuku.

Back to Garland &Garcia. I could understand not wanting to take the risk with Garcia and also wanting to leave one spot for a youngster (b/c we need to give them a chance and see who is good).

Lundind1
01-10-2009, 12:12 AM
Sigh all you want, but it would probably be better than who we have in those spots now. Some of you need to get your heads out of the sand.

I think that IMHO, Clayton will be better than Garland. I feel slightly more qualified to say that here because I was many of Richards starts late last season and he has some electric stuff when he is sharp and works a good breaking ball. I heard the same poop last year about Danks and Floyd. I think we might be pleasantly surprised by both these kids in their starting roles.

I say give em a chance to prove it to us in the first 3 months of the season.

NO on Garcia. His arm is about to fall off again, wait I think I just heard it pop......my exact words to my father at game 162 in 2008. I just don't think he has anything left. I see Garland begining some 2nd half of the career struggles, the kind that keeps a good pitcher from being truly special and HOF bound.

Just my 8 cents worth.....with inflation.

Lundind1
01-10-2009, 12:17 AM
Marte signed for good money with the yankees.

We really dodged a bullet not signing Rowand though.

He should have really went the way of Cotts/Hermanson/Politte...no where really fast. Cotts is the only one who actually hung around but even he is in jeopardy.

You can't just get married to a guy who had a flukie-type year and helped the Sox win a WS. I was never impressed with him all too much, on top of that....could you have imagined him struggle in 07 if he were still with this team? I would have had a heart attack that season like I did when Bukvich came out of the pen. That would have been the year of complete disaster, yeah I know.....but I mean waaaaayyyyyy worse than it was.

oeo
01-10-2009, 01:07 AM
i would have no problem with garland on the team.

:shrug:

Me neither. I thought trading him was a good idea the way the market was headed, but it no longer appears like he's going to get that big contract.

Garland's a gamer. If nothing else, he gives us the innings we're losing from Javy.

StillMissOzzie
01-10-2009, 02:00 AM
Let's reunite the band!



LOL, this was my thought too!
"We're putting the band back together. We're on a mission from God"

SMO
:D:

TDog
01-10-2009, 02:07 AM
...

Rowand signed a huge contract, but I would have liked to sign him. Expensive, but way better than Owens and/or Anderson. We dodged a bullet by not signing Fuku. $12M/year almost for a backup outfielder. Ouch! Anderson is better than Fuku.
...

Rowand didn't have a great year defensively in San Francisco. Most notably, he too often overshot the cutoff man, essentially air mailing throws to the plate to give runners extra bases. He certainly didn't have a great offensive year, especially late in the season.

But the Giants, at least the Giants fans, expected too much from him because he signed for more than he was worth. Rowand is a pretty good centerfielder. the White Sox haven't had his equal playing in center since they traded him. He isn't a big hitter a team should be building a lineup around.

I don't know if any team will overpay for Garland this season. The whole idea of giving starters numbers based on their stuff is ridiculous, but obviously Garland isn't worth the money he is demanding.

Garcia, on the other hand, doesn't have anything left. I haven't been paying much attention, but I understood the Tigers were picking him up.

sunofgold
01-10-2009, 02:30 AM
I thought that I read somewhere that Garcia was pitching okay in winter ball somewhere.

This one is actually simple. OG is a close friend of Garcia, thus he should know truthfully whether Garcia could contribute something or not.

hawkjt
01-10-2009, 03:01 AM
If we can get Jon Garland back for a reasonable number...I say sign him.
Not sure what happened to him last year but sinker ball pitchers are always welcome in Sox Park in July and August.

guillensdisciple
01-10-2009, 04:55 AM
Sigh all you want, but it would probably be better than who we have in those spots now. Some of you need to get your heads out of the sand.

You're absolutely right, but it isn't going to happen, that is why I am sighing. I see too many ideas that have no probability of happening, and this is one of them. No offense to you man, I just don't see this happening.

central44
01-10-2009, 08:49 AM
It would be great to have Garland back, but i'd be shocked if he wanted to come back. He was pretty upset after getting traded--I'd assumed that bridge was burned.

Also, it wouldn't suprise me if KW picked up Garcia to give him a chance, if nobody else wanted him--like he did for Esteban Loaiza. It would have to be cheap though.

Really, I don't mind the thought of a rotation that features Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, and Clayton Richard. Richard showed a lot of promise last season, and can't be worse than some of the #5 starters other teams trot out there. The problem is that Clayton Richard alone is a good wildcard, but having Richard and Marquez or Richard and Broadway both in the rotation at 4 and 5 is an awfully large gamble for a team looking to defend a division championship and win a World Series. It would be nice to have a solid starter at the very least in the number 4 spot.

doublem23
01-10-2009, 08:58 AM
I'd put Marquez in the rotation before Richard... Richard's got good stuff, but IMO, he's more valuable in the bullpen.

1. Buehrle
2. Floyd
3. Danks
4. Garland
5. Marquez/Richard/Poreda/Broadway

Maybe the #1 rotation in the Central.

Over By There
01-10-2009, 09:06 AM
In before someone says, "2005!!!1!"

I'd be happy to get Garland back, not sold on Garcia.

thedudeabides
01-10-2009, 09:33 AM
Anyone that thinks Garland is coming back is delusional.

russ99
01-10-2009, 09:41 AM
I really don't think Garcia has much left in the tank. The Sox may sign him in a low-risk move, but to expect him to make an impact in the rotation is probably just as wishful that Contreras will make a big comeback after his major injury.

KyWhiSoxFan
01-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Anyone that thinks Garland is coming back is delusional.

The chance that Garcia returns to the Sox is 100 times greater than Garland. And Garcia is a longshot at best.

Thome25
01-10-2009, 11:20 AM
Another day, another crazy idea thread.:D:

2906
01-10-2009, 11:34 AM
The chance that Garcia returns to the Sox is 100 times greater than Garland. And Garcia is a longshot at best.

Agreed on Garland and I believe he'll end up a Dodger. As for Freddy Garcia, it's totally a question of his health. There was an unconfirmed report he tweaked his shoulder again in winter ball.

If he's close to healthy I think the White Sox will bring him in for one year on the cheap.

longtimesoxguy
01-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Anyone that thinks Garland is coming back is delusional.

Why? He wants back in . He was hanging out in the south loop over thanksgiving saying he'd like to come back.

If he's on our team he's one of the top 5 pitchers

Brian26
01-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Why? He wants back in . He was hanging out in the south loop over thanksgiving saying he'd like to come back.

Buehrle said at Soxfest last year that Garland was his best friend on the team and knew that Garland never wanted to leave. That entire California-is-eden story is myth. Garland wanted to stay here.

Now, whether or not Kenny wants him back is another story. I'd like to see him back.

champagne030
01-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Buehrle said at Soxfest last year that Garland was his best friend on the team and knew that Garland never wanted to leave. That entire California-is-eden story is myth. Garland wanted to stay here.

Now, whether or not Kenny wants him back is another story. I'd like to see him back.

So would I, but there's unconfirmed stories that Ozzie didn't like Jon. Go figure....:shrug:

oeo
01-10-2009, 12:42 PM
So would I, but there's unconfirmed stories that Ozzie didn't like Jon. Go figure....:shrug:

Oh lord, more unconfirmed stories from champagne030...

Domeshot17
01-10-2009, 12:45 PM
I would have just assume been done with Jon Garland but if we can get him on the cheap fine. He is one of the most over rated pitchers in baseball. But he is steady. We know what we get out of the 4 hole with 12-14 wins an era between 4.3-4.9 and 200 IP. Basically a poor mans Javy.

I would not call it the best rotation in the Central. I will if Danks progresses more, but right now, We have the same problem as last year that we don't have a number 1 starter. We have a bunch of Number 2's. It is a rotation built for a long season not a short series.

If you don't think having that 1 dominating top flight starter matters, Think if the Phillies had Gavin Floyd last year and not Cole Hamels. Would they have won it all? Would they have made it out of either of the first 2 rounds?

oeo
01-10-2009, 12:53 PM
I would not call it the best rotation in the Central. I will if Danks progresses more, but right now, We have the same problem as last year that we don't have a number 1 starter. We have a bunch of Number 2's. It is a rotation built for a long season not a short series.If that's the problem in the rotation, then we'll be fine. I thought the problem last year was that we didn't have anyone to step in after an injury. Now we're looking at an iffy 4 and 5 (going into last year it was an iffy 3, 4, and 5), with no one to step in case of injury.

"A bunch of Number 2's" can definitely win a short series; I don't know what you're talking about.

If you don't think having that 1 dominating top flight starter matters, Think if the Phillies had Gavin Floyd last year and not Cole Hamels. Would they have won it all? Would they have made it out of either of the first 2 rounds?I didn't know Hamels pitched everyday. Yeah, he was great, but come on.

champagne030
01-10-2009, 12:56 PM
Oh lord, more unconfirmed stories from champagne030...

I don't have first person info of this Ozzie bull****, but this is from a Daily Herald writer.........

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1192

Hmmmmm......

dickallen15
01-10-2009, 12:58 PM
Buehrle said at Soxfest last year that Garland was his best friend on the team and knew that Garland never wanted to leave. That entire California-is-eden story is myth. Garland wanted to stay here.

Now, whether or not Kenny wants him back is another story. I'd like to see him back.


I think Garland is still asking for a ton of money. Arizona was interested but are no more. KW probably will be very interested if the price drops. Right now its probably a case of whoever offers him the most money and makes him look like less of a fool for declining arbitration will get him.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 01:02 PM
I would love to have Garland back as our #4 right now.

Then roll the dice with whoever at #5. Never thought Garland was "great" while here, but 200 innings and a 4.20 ERA is all we need right now from the #4.

TheOldRoman
01-10-2009, 01:03 PM
:threadsucks

Can we change the title please? I expected this to be a report from some news outlet saying the Sox had reached agreements with the two, not somebody suggesting it.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 01:09 PM
Can we change the title please? I expected this to be a report from some news outlet saying the Sox had reached agreements with the two, not somebody suggesting it.


It's on "What's the Score," Isn't this the place for it?

oeo
01-10-2009, 01:14 PM
:threadsucks

Can we change the title please? I expected this to be a report from some news outlet saying the Sox had reached agreements with the two, not somebody suggesting it.

It doesn't say 'Sox sign' or 'Signed', it says 'Sign.' That doesn't sound like a suggestion?

oeo
01-10-2009, 01:17 PM
I don't have first person info of this Ozzie bull****, but this is from a Daily Herald writer.........

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1192

Hmmmmm......

That's interesting, but the lines are not connecting for me. Why would Garland want to come back? Over the course of four years, they never blew up once in front of the media?

Stoky44
01-10-2009, 01:24 PM
LOL, this was my thought too!
"We're putting the band back together. We're on a mission from God"

SMO
:D:

:bluesbros "THE BAND!"

TheOldRoman
01-10-2009, 01:24 PM
It doesn't say 'Sox sign' or 'Signed', it says 'Sign.' That doesn't sound like a suggestion?I wondered why I was the only one who had a problem with the title. I read it quickly, and thought it said "Sox sign..." :redface:

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 01:40 PM
I wondered by I was the only one that had a problem with the title. I read it quickly, and thought it said "Sox sign..." :redface:


Reading is an Engilsh skill, don't let Kittle42 come in here to punch you in the mouth. :tongue:

whitesox901
01-10-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd be happy to get Garland back, not sold on Garcia.

Same

jabrch
01-10-2009, 01:58 PM
Sigh all you want, but it would probably be better than who we have in those spots now. Some of you need to get your heads out of the sand.

Did you see any of Freddy last year? How about the year before?

Are you interested in giving Garland 4/50 (at least) to pitch like a back of the rotation guy? Not me.

I'd rather see what we have in the system and grow with it than sink good money at guys with limited ceilings. If we have 50mm to throw at someone, we can get far better than Garland.

TheOldRoman
01-10-2009, 02:03 PM
Did you see any of Freddy last year? How about the year before?

Are you interested in giving Garland 4/50 (at least) to pitch like a back of the rotation guy? Not me.

I'd rather see what we have in the system and grow with it than sink good money at guys with limited ceilings.I am in the "Garland as a 4 or 5" camp, but I don't think he will get as much money as you think. He probably made a mistake turning down arbitration from LAA. Looking at the salaries outside of the top few, I don't see any way he gets $12 mil a year. He will probably sign a short deal, maybe 2 or 3 years, in hopes of signing a big one when the market is more inflated. I would be shocked if he gets more than $10 million a year for three years.

Sargeant79
01-10-2009, 02:07 PM
I am in the "Garland as a 4 or 5" camp, but I don't think he will get as much money as you think. He probably made a mistake turning down arbitration from LAA. Looking at the salaries outside of the top few, I don't see any way he gets $12 mil a year. He will probably sign a short deal, maybe 2 or 3 years, in hopes of signing a big one when the market is more inflated. I would be shocked if he gets more than $10 million a year for three years.

Agreed. About midseason, I said I would be shocked to see Garland get less than what Carlos Silva got last year. But with the way this market has shaped up, I think you're absolutely right. The first team that gives him $30 mil over 3 years probably gets him.

jabrch
01-10-2009, 02:11 PM
I am in the "Garland as a 4 or 5" camp, but I don't think he will get as much money as you think. He probably made a mistake turning down arbitration from LAA. Looking at the salaries outside of the top few, I don't see any way he gets $12 mil a year. He will probably sign a short deal, maybe 2 or 3 years, in hopes of signing a big one when the market is more inflated. I would be shocked if he gets more than $10 million a year for three years.

I still see him as a 5.00/1.5 guy - and I wouldn't give him whatever he's going to get.

champagne030
01-10-2009, 02:18 PM
That's interesting, but the lines are not connecting for me. Why would Garland want to come back? Over the course of four years, they never blew up once in front of the media?

I'm thinking the time he didn't plunk the batter after Ozzie when bat**** in the dugout?

Brian26
01-10-2009, 02:43 PM
Did you see any of Freddy last year? How about the year before?

Freddy looked pretty damn good against the Sox for six innings on the last day of the season while not yet fully recovered.

Nobody in their right mind should consider giving him anything but an incentive-laden offer, but I wouldn't discount a guy that's been a horse for that long and obviously knows how to win. Worst-case scenario, he's a stop-gap while giving Poreda some time to ease into the majors with a bullpen stint (similar to Buehrle in 2000).

jabrch
01-10-2009, 03:02 PM
I'm a Freddy fan - but I wouldn't guarantee him any money or a roster spot. I think we have a half dozen guys who would outpeform him this year, and are more likely to get 30 starts if given the chance.

Konerko05
01-10-2009, 03:04 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-10-basebitsjan10,0,685585.story

This article states Williams supposedly said he will not sign Jon Garland, but yet the only words quoted from Williams are "would not waste." Would not waste what?

So I'm not really sure this article has any information at all, but I figured I'd post it since it was kind of buried in the Michael Young thread.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 03:17 PM
Are you interested in giving Garland 4/50 (at least) to pitch like a back of the rotation guy? Not me.




4/50 for the cost of pitching these days is not too far off.

The Sox are who would be paying not me, so I would say go for it.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm a Freddy fan - but I wouldn't guarantee him any money or a roster spot. I think we have a half dozen guys who would outpeform him this year, and are more likely to get 30 starts if given the chance.
Name them.
4/50 for the cost of pitching these days is not too far off.

The Sox are who would be paying not me, so I would say go for it.
If we're somewhat strapped for cash, why waste money on a not very good pitcher?

Konerko05
01-10-2009, 03:22 PM
I'm thinking the time he didn't plunk the batter after Ozzie when bat**** in the dugout?

I'm almost positive there was an interview with Ozzie this offseason where Ozzie said he would love to have Garland back in his rotation.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 03:28 PM
Name them.

If we're somewhat strapped for cash, why waste money on a not very good pitcher?

:?:

You ask the other guy to name who we already have who can give us 30 starts and then you say it would be a waste of money to get a guy in here who can give us 30 starts.

:scratch:

dickallen15
01-10-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm almost positive there was an interview with Ozzie this offseason where Ozzie said he would love to have Garland back in his rotation.
There was.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 03:36 PM
:?:

You ask the other guy to name who we already have who can give us 30 starts and then you say it would be a waste of money to get a guy in here who can give us 30 starts.

:scratch:
There's a difference. I'm curious as to what six guys he has confidence in -- as I don't really think Marquez is a sure bet for this year or next, due to his horrid showing in AAA last year.

As for Garland, he sucks. Don't give 12.5 million to ****ty pitchers. He's like the Michael Young of starting pitchers.

areilly
01-10-2009, 03:49 PM
In before someone says, "2005!!!1!"

I'd be happy to get Garland back, not sold on Garcia.

I believe El Duque is also available.





2005!

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 03:49 PM
There's a difference. I'm curious as to what six guys he has confidence in -- as I don't really think Marquez is a sure bet for this year or next, due to his horrid showing in AAA last year.

As for Garland, he sucks. Don't give 12.5 million to ****ty pitchers. He's like the Michael Young of starting pitchers.


Garland doesn't suck. You use that word way too openly about every player. He is an average starting pitcher and fits the 4th starter mold.

Now the price of $12 million sounds kind of high but that's what the market is for average pitching IMO.


Average 200 inning pitcher will get $9-12 million per season.

A good SP will get $13-16 million per season.

A great SP will get $17 - $20 million per season.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Garland doesn't suck. You use that word way too openly about every player. He is an average starting pitcher and fits the 4th starter mold.

Now the price of $12 million sounds kind of high but that's what the market is for average pitching IMO.


Average 200 inning pitcher will get $9-12 million per season.

A good SP will get $13-16 million per season.

A great SP will get $17 - $20 million per season.
What do you call a pitcher whose most recent season yielded a declining K rate (which was down from an already low number), increasing BB rate, increasing hit rate, etc.?

I see a poor pitcher. He's complained of a knot in his shoulder in the past and has a lot of mileage on his arm. If we dropped that kind of money on Jon Garland we'd be making a mistake, regardless of what the market dictates. We'd be better off stocking up on incentive laden deals or just going young altogether than committing money to a below average starting pitcher.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 04:09 PM
What do you call a pitcher whose most recent season yielded a declining K rate (which was down from an already low number), increasing BB rate, increasing hit rate, etc.?

I see a poor pitcher. He's complained of a knot in his shoulder in the past and has a lot of mileage on his arm. If we dropped that kind of money on Jon Garland we'd be making a mistake, regardless of what the market dictates. We'd be better off stocking up on incentive laden deals or just going young altogether than committing money to a below average starting pitcher.


That right there we do agree on. The mileage is a huge risk. I don't want Garland nor I ever wanted him, but the fear of the question marks at 4 and 5 right now is what has made me give it a thought.


I just hope we go the FA route and don't trade away a huge asset like JD to get another SP.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 04:14 PM
That right there we do agree on. The mileage is a huge risk. I don't want Garland nor I ever wanted him, but the fear of the question marks at 4 and 5 right now is what has made me give it a thought.


I just hope we go the FA route and don't trade away a huge asset like JD to get another SP.
The best case scenario would probably involve a trade of JD, in my opinion. Unfortunately, the market for all-bat/no-glove corner outfielders is very deflated this offseason.

WhiteSox5187
01-10-2009, 04:15 PM
If Garland wants less than $10 million a year, he's welcome back. He's not a great pitcher, we all get that, but he's an innings eater who is good for 200 IP and 12 wins. He'd be replacing Javy but without the K's. He certainly would be better than Broadway who is going to be in the rotation if another move is not made; the problem with having Garland is you have to have a damn good defense in your infield, but with Fields at third and Getz in second - though I'm not so worried about him, it might be tough for Jon.

TheOldRoman
01-10-2009, 04:23 PM
The best case scenario would probably involve a trade of JD, in my opinion. Unfortunately, the market for all-bat/no-glove corner outfielders is very deflated this offseason.I have harped on JD's defense as much as anyone since 06, but I wouldn't classify him as "no glove". I think that after a slow start last year, he played his best defense since 05. He doesn't have the range he used to, but he still has a solid arm and gets good reads. Overall, I don't think he would be a defensive liability, especially for a team that can move him to LF.

But I agree that the market may not be as high for him considering what Burrell got. Then again, him and Bradley are already off the market, so who knows.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 04:26 PM
I have harped on JD's defense as much as anyone since 06, but I wouldn't classify him as "no glove". I think that after a slow start last year, he played his best defense since 05. He doesn't have the range he used to, but he still has a solid arm and gets good reads. Overall, I don't think he would be a defensive liability, especially for a team that can move him to LF.

But I agree that the market may not be as high for him considering what Burrell got. Then again, him and Bradley are already off the market, so who knows.
Abreu's still out, which is pretty big.

Ultimately, his high salary coupled with our (rightful) reluctance to eat any salary will depress the market for him even more.

Konerko05
01-10-2009, 04:29 PM
Garland's 1.505 WHIP and 90 SOs will be a complete disaster in this ballpark with the White Sox current defense.

I also don't believe he will be getting the 4/50 contract some people are suggesting in this thread.

The idea of getting Garland back to the round out the rotation sounds like a good idea in theory, but it's probably best to stay away. A 1 year deal might be worth considering, but there is no way that's the best offer.

Daver
01-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Garland's 1.505 WHIP and 90 SOs will be a complete disaster in this ballpark with the White Sox current defense.


Any pitcher that is not a SO pitcher faces the same problem with the White Sox current defense.

doublem23
01-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Garland's 1.505 WHIP and 90 SOs will be a complete disaster in this ballpark with the White Sox current defense.

I also don't believe he will be getting the 4/50 contract some people are suggesting in this thread.

The idea of getting Garland back to the round out the rotation sounds like a good idea in theory, but it's probably best to stay away. A 1 year deal might be worth considering, but there is no way that's the best offer.

These theories might hold some water if those weren't career lows for Jon Garland.

I'm sorry, anyone who would take 2 of the Marquez/Richard/Broadway/Poreda group over Garland + 1 of those 4 is clinically insane.

white sox bill
01-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Even mediocre pitching (IE Garland) these days commands a high price

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 05:50 PM
These theories might hold some water if those weren't career lows for Jon Garland.

I'm sorry, anyone who would take 2 of the Marquez/Richard/Broadway/Poreda group over Garland + 1 of those 4 is clinically insane.
It's not a one for one thing, it's either two of those or Garland + money. Yes, those were career lows, but they were a result of Garland striking out less guys, walking more guys, and having the ball hit much harder and more frequently.

Konerko05
01-10-2009, 06:02 PM
These theories might hold some water if those weren't career lows for Jon Garland.

I'm sorry, anyone who would take 2 of the Marquez/Richard/Broadway/Poreda group over Garland + 1 of those 4 is clinically insane.

I'm not ruling out Garland improving on his 2008 season. It's just a bad sign over the last two years his walks are up and his strikeouts are down. It's very possible his shoulder is wearing down. That's why I said I'd be cautious giving him anything over a one year deal. Unfortunately, he will probably get several multiyear offers.

I'd like to see Richard get a shot at the rotation. There is no question I'd rather have Garland over Marquez in 2009. The only problem is Garland is not worth the money or years he will command.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 06:41 PM
Let me ask this, is Derrick Lowe a better option over Garland?

He is Sweaty like Freddy and a sinker ball pitcher like Garland. We knock two birds with one stone.

But seriously, should we be going after him?

Noneck
01-10-2009, 06:42 PM
The only problem is Garland is not worth the money or years he will command.

I read this over and over from posters spewing the company line here about all FA pitchers. I have never seen a company man on this board ever state that a FA pitcher is worth what he is asks for or is worth what he gets. The market is what it is, if FA gets what they command consistently , that is the market price.

I am not directing this rant at you but am so tired of hearing that a FA pitcher is not worth what they are asking for, unless someone can seriously say they are comfortable with what the Sox have in starting pitching for 09.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 06:42 PM
Let me ask this, is Derrick Lowe a better option over Garland?

He is Sweaty like Freddy and a sinker ball pitcher like Garland. We knock two birds with one stone.

But seriously, should we be going after him?
No. Too old and is holding out for an enormous contract. We simply don't have the money -- according to our general manager. It's fairly telling that Freddy is the only pitcher of significance we've been speculated as being in on recently.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 06:50 PM
I read this over and over from posters spewing the company line here about all FA pitchers. I have never seen a company man on this board ever state that a FA pitcher is worth what he is asks for or is worth what he gets. The market is what it is, if FA gets what they command consistently , that is the market price.

I am not directing this rant at you but am so tired of hearing that a FA pitcher is not worth what they are asking for, unless someone can seriously say they are comfortable with what the Sox have in starting pitching for 09.


Agree.

Everyone who is traded or is signed by other teams who is not the Sox is a bad deal or not worth the money.

LoveYourSuit
01-10-2009, 06:52 PM
No. Too old and is holding out for an enormous contract. We simply don't have the money -- according to our general manager. It's fairly telling that Freddy is the only pitcher of significance we've been speculated as being in on recently.


Is there any player you like out there?

Everyone to you sucks, too old, medicore, bad, over-rated ..... the list can go on.

I have never heard you say who do you want?

Or who do you think is good.

Konerko05
01-10-2009, 07:14 PM
I read this over and over from posters spewing the company line here about all FA pitchers. I have never seen a company man on this board ever state that a FA pitcher is worth what he is asks for or is worth what he gets. The market is what it is, if FA gets what they command consistently , that is the market price.

I am not directing this rant at you but am so tired of hearing that a FA pitcher is not worth what they are asking for, unless someone can seriously say they are comfortable with what the Sox have in starting pitching for 09.

I'm not a company man at all. I would happily accept Reinsdorf pouring every dollar he had into the White Sox organization. I also do not sit here defending every move Ken Williams makes.

I have just accepted the White Sox are working with "budget constraints." Regardless if it's my money or not, every dollar put into this team is going to affect other moves within the organization.

Am I comfortable with the Sox current pitching staff? Not at all.

Do I think giving Jon Garland 3years/30mil is the answer? No.

If the Sox are working with a limited budget, shelling out 30mil+ to Jon Garland is not a smart move. He has been declining the last two years while complaining of shoulder problems.

If Garland continues to decline from last season, the Sox have wasted 30mil they could have used for other players.

doublem23
01-10-2009, 07:20 PM
I read this over and over from posters spewing the company line here about all FA pitchers. I have never seen a company man on this board ever state that a FA pitcher is worth what he is asks for or is worth what he gets. The market is what it is, if FA gets what they command consistently , that is the market price.

I am not directing this rant at you but am so tired of hearing that a FA pitcher is not worth what they are asking for, unless someone can seriously say they are comfortable with what the Sox have in starting pitching for 09.

Maybe we just understand that the Sox operate on a budget, rather than in some Gumdrop Mountain, Lollipop Lane world? Only 1 or 2 teams in MLB can afford to just sign guys without worrying about how those dollars affect other areas of the team.

If the Sox were to sign Garland he would probably account for almost all the money we saved on Javier and Swisher, meaning our payroll would be totally maxed out. Do you want a guy like Garland in your rotation and then leave Owens in CF, or do you want to see if you can get someone cheaper to pitch and see if you can add another outfielder?

Sargeant79
01-10-2009, 08:26 PM
Maybe we just understand that the Sox operate on a budget, rather than in some Gumdrop Mountain, Lollipop Lane world? Only 1 or 2 teams in MLB can afford to just sign guys without worrying about how those dollars affect other areas of the team.

If the Sox were to sign Garland he would probably account for almost all the money we saved on Javier and Swisher, meaning our payroll would be totally maxed out. Do you want a guy like Garland in your rotation and then leave Owens in CF, or do you want to see if you can get someone cheaper to pitch and see if you can add another outfielder?

Just jumping in on this...

I'm not sure Garland is the right guy, but I think starting pitching is where any available resources should be allocated. If they go out and get a solid pitcher who will probably give you 200 innings and an ERA around 4.00-4.25, I'd be okay going into the season with the lineup they have and seeing what happens.

On a side note, I'd rather the CF be Brian Anderson instead of Jerry Owens for the majority of the games, but that discussion probably belongs in a different thread.

Noneck
01-10-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm not a company man at all. I would happily accept Reinsdorf pouring every dollar he had into the White Sox organization. I also do not sit here defending every move Ken Williams makes.

I have just accepted the White Sox are working with "budget constraints." Regardless if it's my money or not, every dollar put into this team is going to affect other moves within the organization.

Am I comfortable with the Sox current pitching staff? Not at all.

Do I think giving Jon Garland 3years/30mil is the answer? No.

If the Sox are working with a limited budget, shelling out 30mil+ to Jon Garland is not a smart move. He has been declining the last two years while complaining of shoulder problems.

If Garland continues to decline from last season, the Sox have wasted 30mil they could have used for other players.

As I said, I was not directing my rant on you and I understand why you don't want Garland.

Noneck
01-10-2009, 08:36 PM
If the Sox were to sign Garland he would probably account for almost all the money we saved on Javier and Swisher, meaning our payroll would be totally maxed out. Do you want a guy like Garland in your rotation and then leave Owens in CF, or do you want to see if you can get someone cheaper to pitch and see if you can add another outfielder?

And what will happen if the time comes this year and the Sox don't get Garland or a FA starter and the center fielder is Owens or Wise? What will be your stance at that point?

beasly213
01-10-2009, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Garland come back. As pointed out in this thread earlier he could eat up the innings we lose with Vazquez being gone.

But what number would Garland take now that TCQ has number 20? :cool:

PalehosePlanet
01-10-2009, 09:13 PM
The way the market has been going I highly doubt Garland gets as big a contract as most people think. Most likely it will be a 2/17 or 3/25ish kind of contract.

Pat Burrel had to settle for 2/16 and adam Dunn will likely have to settle for about 3/30 or slightly less. Both were thought to be 5/75 type guys at this time last year.

I'd be okay with him coming back at a 2 or 3 year deal at less than 9 million per year.

That type of contract wouldn't be too hard to trade either.

Craig Grebeck
01-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Is there any player you like out there?

Everyone to you sucks, too old, medicore, bad, over-rated ..... the list can go on.

I have never heard you say who do you want?

Or who do you think is good.
Make a good suggestion and you'll find out.

jabrch
01-10-2009, 09:40 PM
These theories might hold some water if those weren't career lows for Jon Garland.

I'm sorry, anyone who would take 2 of the Marquez/Richard/Broadway/Poreda group over Garland + 1 of those 4 is clinically insane.


Dubs - remember the equation also includes paying Garland 10-12mm per for 2-3 years vs someone in that group for nearly nothing. If we didn't have a budget, hell, I'd say go for CC and Burnett this offseason.

oeo
01-10-2009, 09:54 PM
I read this over and over from posters spewing the company line here about all FA pitchers. I have never seen a company man on this board ever state that a FA pitcher is worth what he is asks for or is worth what he gets. The market is what it is, if FA gets what they command consistently , that is the market price.

I am not directing this rant at you but am so tired of hearing that a FA pitcher is not worth what they are asking for, unless someone can seriously say they are comfortable with what the Sox have in starting pitching for 09.

Worth and market price are not the same thing. This is besides the point, though, because Garland isn't going to get big money for a lot of years...that's not the market this year. Mediocrity isn't getting the big bucks like it has the past couple of years. If the market was the same as the past few years, there would be few free agents left, and that's not the case.

The Yankees splurged, that's it. That does not mean the market is still out of this world.

Noneck
01-10-2009, 09:57 PM
Worth and market price are not the same thing. This is besides the point, though, because Garland isn't going to get big money for a lot of years...that's not the market this year. Mediocrity isn't getting the big bucks like it has the past couple of years. If the market was the same as the past few years, there would be few free agents left, and that's not the case.

The Yankees splurged, that's it. That does not mean the market is still out of this world.
Are you saying that Garland and other Fa's this year will be within the Sox means?

everafan
01-10-2009, 09:57 PM
Joe Cowley said today on the radio that the Sox are convinced that Marquez is Garland.

Madscout
01-10-2009, 10:02 PM
Does Garland even want to come back?

We have a bunch of guys waiting in the wings, nothing that we believe to be special, but some guys that can contibute. Thome comes off the books next year. Why not sign Garland to a one year deal. It might be mutually benificial. He might figure out that he loves pitching for us and do very well, in which case we sign him long term as a no 3 or so, or one side decides that they don't like the equation and doesn't have him back. He gets another market to have a shot in, and we get a better shot at someone we want.

pearso66
01-10-2009, 10:06 PM
If Garland can be had for 2 years at 7-8 per, I'd say sign him. I can't imagine him getting much more than that, and if one of the other guys beats him out, 7-8 isn't that much to trade, plus 2 guys would have to beat him out for him to be useless. He'll give the Sox had in Vazquez, but he'll be counted for a 4-5, not a 2

Frontman
01-10-2009, 10:43 PM
Sigh all you want, but it would probably be better than who we have in those spots now. Some of you need to get your heads out of the sand.

And some people need to realize Freddie is 4 years older, 4 years slower. Hell, Paulie could probably steal a bag on him now!

As far as Jon is concerned; I would agree if he's wanting #4 or #5 money. We have our 1-2-3 guys already in Mark, Gavin, and John D.

guillensdisciple
01-11-2009, 02:07 AM
I don't see why the Sox would pony up 8 mil a year for Jon Garland when we could probably spend the same amount for Ben Sheets. Or we could have signed Brad Penny for a 5 millions contract. in other words, signing Garland for anything more then 5 million per will make the White Sox look idiotic. Something tells me Kenny Williams isn't into looking like a fool when he has better options for the same amount of money.

Nellie_Fox
01-11-2009, 02:25 AM
I don't see why the Sox would pony up 8 mil a year for a Jon Garland when we could probably spend the same amount for a Ben Sheets.How many of each of them are there?

guillensdisciple
01-11-2009, 02:53 AM
How many of each of them are there?

Thank you, consider it edited!

whitesox901
01-11-2009, 02:55 AM
Can we get Shingo back here too?

TDog
01-11-2009, 04:03 AM
I read this over and over from posters spewing the company line here about all FA pitchers. I have never seen a company man on this board ever state that a FA pitcher is worth what he is asks for or is worth what he gets. The market is what it is, if FA gets what they command consistently , that is the market price. ...

The market is a deceptive place. Bill Veeck, when as an owner not well financed he found himself dealing with free agency, said the problem isn't the high price of talent, but the high price of mediocrity. He was talking about the high cost of roleplayers, but longterm contracts, especially for pitchers, have knocked the market out of whack.

Sabathia's contract wasn't really dictated by the market. It was dictated by the amount of money the Yankees could spend. He was 6-8 with an ERA of 3.83 with the Indians last in 2008, but he signed a contract based on his 11-2, 1.65 half-season in the National League. He signed a contract implying a promise that he would be nearly unbeatable for the next seven seasons.

For most teams, Sabathia isn't worth the money. Even if he has a couple of great seasons, he becomes a burden for three or four years to most teams. The Yankees apparently feel they can afford to pay for their mistakes in the long term.

Even if Garland has a better season in 2009 than Sabathia, as he did in 2005, he doesn't remotely deserve Sabathia money.

dickallen15
01-11-2009, 09:20 AM
What I find hysterical about Garland is how a lot of people says he sucks, isn't worth more than $5 million a year, yet many of those same people thought Javy Vazquez was reasonably prices at over $11 million per year. They basically get the same results in the end. In fact Garland usually wins a couple more games. Its amazing the worth a lot of people give on 7 strikeouts when you give up 6 runs.

I think if he can get Garland for $6-7 million, KW will become very interested. From what I've read, he's still looking for $13 million a year. That's a number he would have a hard time getting if the economy was currently as good as it is now bad.

NLaloosh
01-11-2009, 09:26 AM
Anyone that thinks Garland is coming back is delusional.


Thank you.

bestkosher
01-11-2009, 10:24 AM
Garland is most likely going to go to LA and become another Ted Lilly. His numbers will jump and it will look he has resurrected his career.

pearso66
01-11-2009, 10:26 AM
I don't see why the Sox would pony up 8 mil a year for Jon Garland when we could probably spend the same amount for Ben Sheets. Or we could have signed Brad Penny for a 5 millions contract. in other words, signing Garland for anything more then 5 million per will make the White Sox look idiotic. Something tells me Kenny Williams isn't into looking like a fool when he has better options for the same amount of money.

If you can get Sheets for the same cost, yes go after Sheets, but I don't know if that's the case. Also with Sheets and Penny, aren't they injury risks? I know for sure Sheets is, just not positive on Penny. Penny was the guy I wanted KW to sign, but he's gone, and there's nothing that can be done about it now, all you have to deal with is who's on the market. It's my guess if Garland still wants 13 mil a year, Sheets probably still wants 15 mil a year.

guillensdisciple
01-11-2009, 10:44 AM
If you can get Sheets for the same cost, yes go after Sheets, but I don't know if that's the case. Also with Sheets and Penny, aren't they injury risks? I know for sure Sheets is, just not positive on Penny. Penny was the guy I wanted KW to sign, but he's gone, and there's nothing that can be done about it now, all you have to deal with is who's on the market. It's my guess if Garland still wants 13 mil a year, Sheets probably still wants 15 mil a year.

Brad Penny is injury prone, but when he isn't, he could be just as valuable to a pitching rotation as Ben Sheets. I am assuming that an injury plagued Ben Sheets will only receive 3- 4 million a year more per year then Brad Penny. It is risky, but adding an ace in the hole to the rotation, might make this team leap frog from "panic mode" to world- series contender.

Jurr
01-11-2009, 11:21 AM
The market is a deceptive place. Bill Veeck, when as an owner not well financed he found himself dealing with free agency, said the problem isn't the high price of talent, but the high price of mediocrity. He was talking about the high cost of roleplayers, but longterm contracts, especially for pitchers, have knocked the market out of whack.

Sabathia's contract wasn't really dictated by the market. It was dictated by the amount of money the Yankees could spend. He was 6-8 with an ERA of 3.83 with the Indians last in 2008, but he signed a contract based on his 11-2, 1.65 half-season in the National League. He signed a contract implying a promise that he would be nearly unbeatable for the next seven seasons.

For most teams, Sabathia isn't worth the money. Even if he has a couple of great seasons, he becomes a burden for three or four years to most teams. The Yankees apparently feel they can afford to pay for their mistakes in the long term.

Even if Garland has a better season in 2009 than Sabathia, as he did in 2005, he doesn't remotely deserve Sabathia money.
This is well said, and is the EXACT reason that Sox fans should stop freaking out right now. You don't want to dump a ton of money into a "name" player when there are other options available. People are gnashing their teeth because the Sox haven't dropped any crazy contracts on a superstar this offseason. There is plenty of time left to add players at a reasonable price. In this market, you can't afford to pay some big named player tens of millions on a long term contract only to get hosed on the back end of the deal after skills and health have eroded.

NLaloosh
01-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Why do people continually propose ideas for the White Sox that the management has clearly shown that it opposes ?

Two players that the Sox clearly don't want back and the feeling is mutual are Jon Garland and Orlando Cabrera. To make this even clearer, the Sox don't want them and they don't want the Sox.

Also, it's quite apparent that the Sox will not be bidding on any pitchers that will require a big contract. By "big" I mean a multi-year deal or an annual salary above $ 5 mil. I'm not absolutely certain of this but hot stove reports have strongly suggested this all winter. The Sox have only been linked in any way to aging veterans on a 1 yr. deal.

The Sox are clearly committed to a youth movement.

doctor30th
01-12-2009, 01:19 AM
I just say give the kids a chance. Last year I remember the same thing "don't go in with 2 unproven starters" They turned out pretty good. At least the is a bigger pool of candidates this year.

WhiteSox5187
01-12-2009, 02:06 AM
I just say give the kids a chance. Last year I remember the same thing "don't go in with 2 unproven starters" They turned out pretty good. At least the is a bigger pool of candidates this year.
I was thinking about this too, but Floyd was at one point a number one prospect and jewel of the Phillies system and Danks was also a 1st round pick who showed flashes of brilliance in 2007. Clayton Richard though is an 8th round pick, Broadway never really put up great numbers in the minors (though I guess Floyd and Danks didn't exactly light up the minors either) and I'm not too sure what this Marquez's numbers are.

Last year though the question was would Danks continue to progress and what the hell would we get out of Floyd? This year the question is: what the hell are we going to get out of Richard, Broadway and/or Marquez.

Not exactly an enviably position to be in.

white sox bill
01-12-2009, 07:57 AM
I always like Garland. But...been there, done that. No thanks.

khan
01-12-2009, 02:17 PM
I just say give the kids a chance. Last year I remember the same thing "don't go in with 2 unproven starters" They turned out pretty good. At least the is a bigger pool of candidates this year.
No offense, but this is lazy reasoning. You failed to mention that both Floyd and Danks were at one time reckoned to be among the best pitching prospects in all of MLB. Marquez, Broadway, and Richard aren't even in the top 50 of most prospect lists. I don't even believe any of these three are among the top ~5 or so prospects in the Sox organization, though I could be mistaken.

In sum, Floyd/Danks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marquez/Broadway/Richard. Because of this, many of us believe that going with BOTH Marquez AND either of Broadway/Richard in the rotation is tantamount to accepting <80 wins this season. In other words, giving up on 2009 before it starts.

This is why I posit that AT THE RIGHT PRICE, I'd welcome Garland, Garcia, Mulder, or any other veteran SP that KW believes can get 200 IP. More importantly, this vet would prevent this team from having BOTH Marquez AND either of Broadway/Richard in the rotation. That is, IF KW/JR intend to compete this season.

If not, and they're "going young/cheap," then not only should there be BOTH Marquez AND either of Broadway/Richard in the rotation, but Konerko/Dye/Thome, and possibly Buehrle and Jenks had better be gone by Spring Training.

Domeshot17
01-12-2009, 02:26 PM
I just say give the kids a chance. Last year I remember the same thing "don't go in with 2 unproven starters" They turned out pretty good. At least the is a bigger pool of candidates this year.

wow, this logic is almost as bad as the people said since Kenny dealt 3 prospects for Swisher then got 2 prospects and a veteran back for him he broke even.

Floyd was at one point one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball, and Danks was the crown jewel of a very strong crop of young pitchers in Texas at the time. This year has much more of the feel of the revolving door of pitchers in 2004 out of the 5 hole (times 2) than it does last year counting on 2 top prospects.

Sockinchisox
01-14-2009, 02:06 PM
Freddy is talking to the Sox, Mets, Yankees, and Rangers. He is expected to sign a deal in the coming days.

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/40702

NLaloosh
01-14-2009, 02:48 PM
I say the Sox will sign him as the 4th starter.

cards press box
01-14-2009, 03:00 PM
Freddy is talking to the Sox, Mets, Yankees, and Rangers. He is expected to sign a deal in the coming days.

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/40702

I have expected and still expect the Sox to bring in a veteran for a short term contract to compete for the 4th and 5th slots in the rotation. Doing so takes some pressure off youngsters who may need more time to develop, such as Aaron Poreda. Given Freddy's history with the Sox and Ozzie Guillen, he sounds like a great fit.

I hope that he is healthy and can still pitch effectively. If so, he would be a great addition to the Sox.

sox1970
01-14-2009, 03:06 PM
I have expected and still expect the Sox to bring in a veteran for a short term contract to compete for the 4th and 5th slots in the rotation. Doing so takes some pressure off youngsters who may need more time to develop, such as Aaron Poreda. Given Freddy's history with the Sox and Ozzie Guillen, he sounds like a great fit.

I hope that he is healthy and can still pitch effectively. If so, he would be a great addition to the Sox.

The way it looks, Richard will be in the rotation, and Poreda will be in the pen. The Sox only have six lefties going to camp at this point- Buehrle, Danks, Richard (all in the rotation), and if they carry two lefties in the pen, that leaves Thornton, with Poreda and Randy Williams going for the last spot.

But I think counting on Marquez is a bad thing. I'd rather see Freddy given a chance.

Sargeant79
01-14-2009, 03:15 PM
I have expected and still expect the Sox to bring in a veteran for a short term contract to compete for the 4th and 5th slots in the rotation. Doing so takes some pressure off youngsters who may need more time to develop, such as Aaron Poreda. Given Freddy's history with the Sox and Ozzie Guillen, he sounds like a great fit.

I hope that he is healthy and can still pitch effectively. If so, he would be a great addition to the Sox.

I think you're absolutely right. If Kenny really wants to see what guys like Richard, Broadway, and Marquez have without absolutely 100% having to rely on them to come through, Freddy is exactly the type of guy to bring in.

He would have to earn his spot...if any of the kids out-pitch him, you're not obligated to keep him in the rotation. If he pitches well, he has earned his job and the non-5th starter rookie would get the chance to acclimate himself to major league hitters in the bullpen. If he gets hurt, it's a way to get spot starts and bring along slowly whichever rookie would be taking his place, and it wouldn't cost much money if it turns out to be a failed experiment.

I still wouldn't feel entirely comfortable with the rotation, but it would make a lot of sense given what Kenny's plan appears to be.

officerron
01-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Make them your 4th and 5th starters. Garland's value is declining and you can sign him for a reasonable deal. He is coming up his worst career season (ERA and BAA), however he can definitely rebound.

He should be able to put up number comparable or better to Vazquez's last year. However, he has proven that he can pitch well at the end of the season in pressure situations.

Garcia is coming off injury. Sign him to a very low base contract with a lot of incentives. This guy knows how to pitch even if his velocity is down. If he can stay healthy, he would be a better 5th starter than what we have right now.

If injuries overcome Garcia, then we still have some decent young options in Poreda, Marquez, and Richard. Would prefer to see Richard as an other left handed option out of the bullpen.

At the very least , sign Garland as a fourth starter and then let the youngsters battle for the 5th spot. Cannot go into the season with two fairly unproven and unexperienced starters.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/mcbtrain929/GIF%20Files/smack.gif

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/mcbtrain929/GIF%20Files/0504c0927a269985ecfa1194e646dd3f.gif

Konerko05
01-14-2009, 04:12 PM
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/mcbtrain929/GIF%20Files/smack.gif

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/mcbtrain929/GIF%20Files/0504c0927a269985ecfa1194e646dd3f.gif

Great contribution.

officerron
01-14-2009, 04:13 PM
Great contribution.

Alot greater than suggesting a lame '05 reunion.

Konerko05
01-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Alot greater than suggesting a lame '05 reunion.

That was a little better.

officerron
01-14-2009, 04:25 PM
That was a little better.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/mcbtrain929/GIF%20Files/clapping.gif

chisox123
01-14-2009, 05:51 PM
Jennifer Langosch at MLB.com is reporting that Freddy Garcia is close to signing a deal with the Yankees, Rangers, Mets, or Sox within a few days. I undersatand he's older but I think he'd be a decent 4 starter for us.

JermaineDye05
01-14-2009, 05:56 PM
Jennifer Langosch at MLB.com is reporting that Freddy Garcia is close to signing a deal with the Yankees, Rangers, Mets, or Sox within a few days. I undersatand he's older but I think he'd be a decent 4 starter for us.

I realize you're fairly new, but please explore 'What's the Score?' before posting a rumor.

sunofgold
01-14-2009, 07:43 PM
Still sign Garland and Garcia. Garland as #4. Garcia and Colon can compete to see who stays healthy and be #5. Can never have too many starters. haha!

turners56
01-14-2009, 07:58 PM
Still sign Garland and Garcia. Garland as #4. Garcia and Colon can compete to see who stays healthy and be #5. Can never have too many starters. haha!

We're not signing Garland. I would like for that to happen, but only at a non-ridiculous price. Let's face it, if Lowe can get 4/60, Garland can get at least 3/30 from some stupid team. It's likely that Garland will get such a payday, so I doubt the Sox will get him.

FedEx227
01-14-2009, 08:25 PM
Still sign Garland and Garcia. Garland as #4. Garcia and Colon can compete to see who stays healthy and be #5. Can never have too many starters. haha!

Especially if they were on our 2005 team. I mean why would you want to find other good players out in free agency or even your farm system when you can just attempt to relive 2005 every single year.

Sockinchisox
01-15-2009, 08:29 PM
Despite signing Colon, the Sox are still talking to Freddy and he is "strongly considering" signing.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1248

2906
01-15-2009, 08:37 PM
Despite signing Colon, the Sox are still talking to Freddy and he is "strongly considering" signing.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1248

Glad to see it. Competition is a good thing. Freddy was comfortable here and that might tip the scales.

sunofgold
01-15-2009, 08:53 PM
C'mon Freddy...you don't want to play in NY. And Texas? C'mon, that place is too hot. You sweat a lot already. Play for your bff. Take a low base with a lot of incentives. And don't pitch in the WBC.

Gammons Peter
01-15-2009, 09:11 PM
I can't wait to watch him not hold runners

munchman33
01-15-2009, 09:16 PM
http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1248

Rocky Soprano
01-15-2009, 09:20 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=108769&page=9

tm1119
01-15-2009, 09:20 PM
I wonder how close the salaries of Colon + Freddy will come to Sheets. Hope we're not being cheap and trying to dig in the bargain bin instead of going after the sure thing.

DSpivack
01-15-2009, 09:21 PM
I wonder how close the salaries of Colon + Freddy will come to Sheets. Hope we're not being cheap and trying to dig in the bargain bin instead of going after the sure thing.

Colon was signed for $1 mil, Garcia probably won't get any more than that. What makes you think that comes even close to what Sheets could get?

EDIT: And Ben Sheets isn't even close to being a sure thing.

chunk
01-15-2009, 09:22 PM
Maybe KW is trying to build up pitching depth to make a trade?

tm1119
01-15-2009, 10:04 PM
Colon was signed for $1 mil, Garcia probably won't get any more than that. What makes you think that comes even close to what Sheets could get?

EDIT: And Ben Sheets isn't even close to being a sure thing.

Thats only guaranteed money. There are incentives in the deal. Im only guessing but I'd imagine the salary would have to be around 4mil or so if he goes over 100 innings, or somewhere close to that. Now lets say we sign both Colon and Garcia and they both manage 100+ innings and incentives kick in and they make 8mil combined. How much more would it take to get Sheets for 1 year?

DickAllen72
01-15-2009, 10:26 PM
I like the Colon signing and I'd also be in favor of signing Freddy for a similar deal.

kittle42
01-15-2009, 10:28 PM
I wonder how close the salaries of Colon + Freddy will come to Sheets. Hope we're not being cheap and trying to dig in the bargain bin instead of going after the sure thing.

They've already basically announced they are, so you'll be very disappointed if you're waiting for that big splash.

whitesox901
01-15-2009, 10:28 PM
I really would'nt want Garland...but I'd rather have him over Freddy

TheOldRoman
01-15-2009, 10:29 PM
Thats only guaranteed money. There are incentives in the deal. Im only guessing but I'd imagine the salary would have to be around 4mil or so if he goes over 100 innings, or somewhere close to that. Now lets say we sign both Colon and Garcia and they both manage 100+ innings and incentives kick in and they make 8mil combined. How much more would it take to get Sheets for 1 year?Ben Sheets won't sign a one year contract. Even in this market, he will be able to get a multi-year deal. I imagine him signing something like a 3 year contract for maybe $12 mil a year.

Sargeant79
01-15-2009, 10:56 PM
Competition never hurts. I'd feel a lot better about the rotation if you've got Colon, Freddy, Broadway, Marquez, Richard, and Poreda fighting for 2 slots. As long as the competition is truly open, that almost guarantees that the pitcher who wins actually deserves to be there. I say sign him up.

dwalteroo
01-16-2009, 12:18 AM
I really would'nt want Garland...but I'd rather have him over Freddy

Agreed, but I'd be surprised to see Garland get a one year deal. Between Colon, Freddy, Richard, Marquez, Poreda and Contreras (2nd half), we hopefully will have a 4th and 5th starter. (Provided Freddy is for real.)

I really want to see Richard emerge as the real thing. He proved he has something last year.

WhiteSox5187
01-16-2009, 01:05 AM
I really would'nt want Garland...but I'd rather have him over Freddy
Agreed, while Sheets is the best pitcher available I think that Garland is probably the best available pitcher for our price range. The only reason I say that is because with him you know you're getting 200 IP and about 12 wins. I'm not so sure you can get 100 innings out of Freddy and Bartolo combined.

Lillian
01-16-2009, 05:47 AM
I know that someone will find this, but Im up very early, so here it is:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/garcia-consider.html

Frater Perdurabo
01-16-2009, 07:20 AM
Agreed, while Sheets is the best pitcher available I think that Garland is probably the best available pitcher for our price range. The only reason I say that is because with him you know you're getting 200 IP and about 12 wins. I'm not so sure you can get 100 innings out of Freddy and Bartolo combined.

Maybe Colon and Garcia can take turns going back and forth between the rotation and the DL until Contreras returns. Between the three of them, I think it's possible that one rotation slot has now been filled.
:bandance:

BadBobbyJenks
01-16-2009, 01:44 PM
Joe Cowley says Colon signing means bye bye Freddy (http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2009/01/sox_sign_colon_bye_bye_freddy.html). This pretty much guarantees Freddy will sign then.:bandance:

thomas35forever
01-16-2009, 01:44 PM
SportsDay reported that Garland turned down a contract offer from the Diamondbacks. Maybe the Sox will emerge soon?

Jim Shorts
01-16-2009, 01:55 PM
SportsDay reported that Garland turned down a contract offer from the Diamondbacks. Maybe the Sox will emerge soon?

did they report numbers, or what he turned down?

southsidesoxfan1
01-16-2009, 03:34 PM
Get it done Kenny!

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1248 (http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/1248)

Rocky Soprano
01-16-2009, 03:37 PM
How many threads do we need to start about this?

doublem23
01-16-2009, 03:51 PM
You don't even need the search tool, man, just look FOUR THREADS DOWN.

spawn
01-16-2009, 04:03 PM
How many threads do we need to start about this?

You don't even need the search tool, man, just look FOUR THREADS DOWN.
No kidding. This topic along with who is leading off is getting old.

SOXSINCE'70
01-16-2009, 04:39 PM
Or maybe Dustin Hermanson.

Is Timo Perez still out there??:D::D:

"C'MON,TIMO!! C'MON,TIMO!!" :cool::cool:
- Ken Harrelson as Timo Perez scored the winning run in a game against the Tribe,2004

Rocky Soprano
01-16-2009, 05:41 PM
Is Timo Perez still out there??

Yup, he's out there searching for the correct teal color. :smile:

Nellie_Fox
01-17-2009, 02:24 AM
How can somebody who's been posting here for seven years and 3500 posts still not know how to find teal?

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-17-2009, 02:29 AM
How can somebody who's been posting here for seven years and 3500 posts still not know how to find teal?

Maybe he's color blind? I know I have a hell of a time telling shades of blue on this site apart. Teal looks pink to me, lol.

Nellie_Fox
01-17-2009, 02:44 AM
Maybe he's color blind? I know I have a hell of a time telling shades of blue on this site apart. Teal looks pink to me, lol.Yeah, but the directions "down one, over five" have been posted thousands of times. Then there's :tealtutor:.

Finally, if you can't remember all of that, you can just type [ color=teal ] without the spaces and then [ /color ] without the spaces to end it. No confusion there.

sunofgold
01-17-2009, 04:27 PM
C'mon Spring Training is around the corner. Don't you want to hang out with Colon? Have some friendly competition?

Rdy2PlayBall
01-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah, but the directions "down one, over five" have been posted thousands of times. Then there's :tealtutor:.

Finally, if you can't remember all of that, you can just type [ color=teal ] without the spaces and then [ /color ] without the spaces to end it. No confusion there.What does the teal font mean? I have been holding it inside to avoid seeming dumb... but Now I need to know. :(:

guillensdisciple
01-17-2009, 05:14 PM
What does the teal font mean? I have been holding it inside to avoid seeming dumb... but Now I need to know. :(:

I believe any sarcastic statement is put in teal.

Rdy2PlayBall
01-17-2009, 05:46 PM
I believe any sarcastic statement is put in teal.Yea, that makes sense... :upsidehead: Ha ha, just kidding. :tongue:

SOXSINCE'70
01-18-2009, 01:47 PM
Yup, he's out there searching for the correct teal color. :smile:

I'm color blind.Honestly.

SOXSINCE'70
01-18-2009, 01:53 PM
Is Timo Perez still out there??:D::D:


Is this better? I have a hard time deciphering shades of green.

Nellie_Fox
01-19-2009, 02:23 AM
Is this better? I have a hard time deciphering shades of green.Just type [ color=teal ] post your sarcasm and end it with [ /color ] (without the spaces after and before the brackets) and you're home free.

Gammons Peter
01-20-2009, 01:19 PM
The only thing more lame than using teal is arguing over the shade of teal.

JermaineDye05
01-20-2009, 02:13 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/freddy-garcia-c.html

Gammons Peter
01-20-2009, 02:41 PM
Gregor talking about it now on the score (with Murph)

Sargeant79
01-20-2009, 03:02 PM
Gregor talking about it now on the score (with Murph)

Recap? Anything new?

Gammons Peter
01-20-2009, 04:05 PM
nothing new, same old stuff, he's close to signing, between Sox and Rangers, he's a big game pitcher, they were worried about facing him in game 162.....Murph is a tool, that's no gouda, honk honk, boingggg, miss a little miss a lot, weather in leather, tomorrow now go and have another beer

soxwon
01-20-2009, 04:54 PM
hey dudes, Ozzie no like Garland-case closed he aint coming.
besides Colon will be LIGHTS OUT awesome, and Freddy will be great too.
we have the best staff in baseball hands down.
Goin to da series my friends. Lovein it-a

JermaineDye05
01-20-2009, 06:04 PM
hey dudes, Ozzie no like Garland-case closed he aint coming.
besides Colon will be LIGHTS OUT awesome, and Freddy will be great too.
we have the best staff in baseball hands down.
Goin to da series my friends. Lovein it-a

I have to be honest, I don't share your optimism however I feel our staff will be a lot better than people think.

soxinem1
01-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Don't know if Guillen would have confidence in him. haah! He sucked in 2005. 1.72 WHIP. W@W! But, actually, has rebounded nicely the last few years. Put him in Logan previous spot and that would be an upgrade.

Rowand signed a huge contract, but I would have liked to sign him. Expensive, but way better than Owens and/or Anderson. We dodged a bullet by not signing Fuku. $12M/year almost for a backup outfielder. Ouch! Anderson is better than Fuku.

Back to Garland &Garcia. I could understand not wanting to take the risk with Garcia and also wanting to leave one spot for a youngster (b/c we need to give them a chance and see who is good).

I would say no to either of them.

IMHO, both are toast. Garland is a BP machine, and I have no desire to see him return.

If Poreda or Broadway were to be #5, I fail to see how it would be more beneficial to have Garland with a 5.00 ERA or one of the rookies. Paying one of the rookies the minumum to do it is a better option that paying Garland $5-10 million.

It is time to see what these guys are made of.

DirtySox
01-22-2009, 12:57 AM
I don't think this has been posted, as I can't find it anywhere.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9116232/Source:-Mets,-Yanks-lead-pack-pursuing-P-Garcia

Rosenthal says it's looking like the Mets or Yankees are going to win out on Garcia.

JermaineDye05
01-22-2009, 01:06 AM
I don't think this has been posted, as I can't find it anywhere.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9116232/Source:-Mets,-Yanks-lead-pack-pursuing-P-Garcia

Rosenthal says it's looking like the Mets or Yankees are going to win out on Garcia.

That's actually funny because when I heard the other day that it was going to be the Sox or Rangers, I said in my head "He'll probably end up going to the Mets."

My gut tells me he'll be a Met next season, that is if he pitches well enough to stay in the majors.

DirtySox
01-22-2009, 08:39 PM
Freddy to the Mets:

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2009/01/garcia-lands-with-mets.html

JermaineDye05
01-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Freddy to the Mets:

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2009/01/garcia-lands-with-mets.html

yeah I had a feeling. 8-9 million, no thanks I'll take Colon for a max of $3 million.

whitesox901
01-22-2009, 08:50 PM
Miniya workin' that magic

sunofgold
01-23-2009, 11:49 PM
It is almost time to pitchers to report and nobody else wants Garland.

WhiteSox5187
01-23-2009, 11:58 PM
It is almost time to pitchers to report and nobody else wants Garland.
Ya know, I haven't heard any reports of him going anywhere. What would he do if no one signs him by spring training? Is Kenny that confident in Colon and the kids at the back end of the rotation that he won't take a waiver on a guy like Garland? Or even Sheets if he's available.

cards press box
01-24-2009, 01:18 AM
It is almost time to pitchers to report and nobody else wants Garland.

I heard a report on XM 175 tonight that the L.A. Dodgers are close to signing Garland.

WhiteSox5187
01-24-2009, 01:54 AM
I heard a report on XM 175 tonight that the L.A. Dodgers are close to signing Garland.
Buster Olney of ESPN is also reporting that.

Save McCuddy's
01-24-2009, 11:06 PM
Buster Olney of ESPN is also reporting that.

Phenomenal signing for LA if it happens. They'll get him for the same dough the Mets are paying Lowe and he's ten years younger. I have him at 15-11 wit a 3.90 for them.

WhiteSox5187
01-24-2009, 11:23 PM
Phenomenal signing for LA if it happens. They'll get him for the same dough the Mets are paying Lowe and he's ten years younger. I have him at 15-11 wit a 3.90 for them.
He might be able to pull a Ted Lilly and put up some very good numbers in the NL.

I'm amazed I still haven't heard anything about Sheets signing anywhere.

cws05champ
01-25-2009, 09:33 AM
He might be able to pull a Ted Lilly and put up some very good numbers in the NL.

I'm amazed I still haven't heard anything about Sheets signing anywhere.
Same here, if he is healthy(which I know is a big IF) he is a division changer. A healthy Sheets added to the white sox rotation would produce a pretty dominant rotation. If he takes a 2 year/$10-14M with heavy incentives on IP, he would be worth the risk IMO.

SOX ADDICT '73
01-25-2009, 10:53 AM
Phenomenal signing for LA if it happens. They'll get him for the same dough the Mets are paying Lowe and he's ten years younger. I have him at 15-11 wit a 3.90 for them.
Wasn't Garland a pretty decent hitter (for a pitcher, that is) during interleague games? I remember at least one HR...

Taliesinrk
01-25-2009, 12:15 PM
Wasn't Garland a pretty decent hitter (for a pitcher, that is) during interleague games? I remember at least one HR...

I was at that game. A pretty good pitching duel until the 7th. I've never heard a collective 35,000 people gasp (naturally, I was standing on my seat at that point) like they did when the ball came off of his bat. After that, I looked around the stadium to see it emptying. It was awesome.

Lip Man 1
01-25-2009, 12:54 PM
June 18, 2006 - Jon Garland becomes the first Sox pitcher to homer in a big league game since 1971 when he hits a two run shot off the Reds Esteban Yan in the 8th inning of a game in Cincinnati. The Sox would win easily 8 - 1.




Lip

Mingo
01-25-2009, 01:34 PM
He might be able to pull a Ted Lilly and put up some very good numbers in the NL.

I'm amazed I still haven't heard anything about Sheets signing anywhere.


Sheets is talking contract with the Rangers - near his home in Texas.

central44
01-25-2009, 03:35 PM
It's amazing to me that the White Sox haven't even looked into signing Sheets. I'm aware of the injury history and all that, but with our training staff and the fact that any team that signs him will be getting a top-tier pitcher for far less than market value...why not look into it at the very least?

KW must have a lot of faith in Bartolo Colon...

Konerko05
01-25-2009, 05:05 PM
It's amazing to me that the White Sox haven't even looked into signing Sheets. I'm aware of the injury history and all that, but with our training staff and the fact that any team that signs him will be getting a top-tier pitcher for far less than market value...why not look into it at the very least?

KW must have a lot of faith in Bartolo Colon...

How do you know if the Sox have looked into Sheets? When does Williams ever share such information with fans and media?

Gammons Peter
01-25-2009, 05:06 PM
We have no more money.

Frontman
01-25-2009, 07:14 PM
*sigh*

Thank God SoxFest is next week; this off-season has made us Sox fans squirrely.

forrestg
01-25-2009, 07:28 PM
Kenny do something even if it is wrong!

Gammons Peter
01-28-2009, 09:18 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/dbacks-talks-wi.html#comments

not a lot of Garland fans posting

Chicken Dinner
01-28-2009, 10:44 AM
not a lot of Garland fans posting

Those would be the same fans that drove Javy out of town.

asindc
01-28-2009, 10:48 AM
*sigh*

Thank God SoxFest is next week; this off-season has made us Sox fans squirrely.

And this is different from other off-seasons in what way?

Gammons Peter
01-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Anyone hear Cowley on the score this morning? he was talking about pitchers we could sign and he mentioned that guys like Paul Byrd and Freddy Garcia are still available. Mully had to inform him that the Mets signed Freddy last week! How does Cowley keep his job? Isn't he a baseball reporter? I know you can't expect a guy to know everything but c'mon that story was everywhere, and it involved a former Sox player who was rumored to be signing with the Sox again. How the **** can he not know the the Mets signed him?

ChiSoxFan81
01-28-2009, 11:17 AM
Anyone hear Cowley on the score this morning? he was talking about pitchers we could sign and he mentioned that guys like Paul Byrd and Freddy Garcia are still available. Mully had to inform him that the Mets signed Freddy last week! How does Cowley keep his job? Isn't he a baseball reporter? I know you can't expect a guy to know everything but c'mon that story was everywhere, and it involved a former Sox player who was rumored to be signing with the Sox again. How the **** can he not know the the Mets signed him?

Wow, that's REALLY bad. What an amateur.

Frontman
01-28-2009, 11:19 AM
And this is different from other off-seasons in what way?

Just seems we're more riled up than normal off-seasons. Maybe its because its so freakin' freezin' outside; maybe its because we want something to take our mind off of how bad the economy is and how it might effect our past-time.

No matter what; I for one will be thrilled, thrilled, thrilled beyond compare for that first spring training game. That means the sound of "Thunderstruck" over a PA system is not too far off...

dickallen15
01-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Maybe the Sox sign Mulder.

ChiSoxFan81
01-28-2009, 11:32 AM
Maybe the Sox sign Mulder.

Or Sabathia. According to Joe Cowley, he's still available.

esbrechtel
01-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Garland signs with AZ....

Frater Perdurabo
01-28-2009, 02:35 PM
Garland signs with AZ....

And as one-half of this thread becomes moot, it also earns a second tomato:

:tomatoaward: :tomatoaward:

Marqhead
01-28-2009, 03:47 PM
And as one-half of this thread becomes moot, it also earns a second tomato:

:tomatoaward: :tomatoaward:

Freddy signed with the Mets, Garland with the DBacks.

This thread is completely moot.