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View Full Version : Thornton to play in WBC


Sockinchisox
01-09-2009, 01:03 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090109&content_id=3738154&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb

No other Sox players so far, they've announced 22 players.

jabrch
01-09-2009, 01:06 PM
Um - wow

doublem23
01-09-2009, 01:09 PM
Damn it.

Huisj
01-09-2009, 01:12 PM
Please please please don't pull a Luis Ayala on us.

Lorenzo Barcelo
01-09-2009, 01:12 PM
Damn it.

At least Fuentes and Ryan are lefties that are likely ahead of him in the depth chart, so that should help.

soxfan43
01-09-2009, 01:13 PM
At least Fuentes and Ryan are lefties that are likely ahead of him in the depth chart, so that should help.


Just about to post that. hopefully Matt will just be like a lefty situational guy at most.

hi im skot
01-09-2009, 01:14 PM
Random.

thomas35forever
01-09-2009, 01:21 PM
Please please please don't pull a Luis Ayala on us.
That's my fear. We all know Thornton is a hard thrower. He is more than capable of hurting his arm in a competition like this.

veeter
01-09-2009, 01:36 PM
Hopefully he sees it as his normal "get ready" work load, only in real competition. Matt's a smart guy, i trust his judgement.

jabrch
01-09-2009, 02:58 PM
How many guys have turned down offers that they go to Thornton?

beasly213
01-09-2009, 03:32 PM
Good For Him. I actually enjoyed the WBC last time around and it will be good to have a Sox player to cheer for on team USA. Although if he gets hurt I will be furious george. :angry:

Konerko05
01-09-2009, 03:51 PM
I don't like the idea of any Sox pitchers playing in the WBC. Thornton's usage was definitely maxed out towards the end of 2008. I hope he doesn't have to throw many innings.

btrain929
01-09-2009, 03:51 PM
He's the man, I think he'll dominate, and be fine. Hopefully it doesn't lead to him getting tired around August-ish...

Iwritecode
01-09-2009, 03:53 PM
That's my fear. We all know Thornton is a hard thrower. He is more than capable of hurting his arm in a competition like this.

Yes but he doesn't look like he's throwing hard. With his motion it looks like he's not putting forth much effort at all.

PopsBrechtel
01-09-2009, 04:03 PM
I don't like the idea of any Sox pitchers playing in the WBC. Thornton's usage was definitely maxed out towards the end of 2008. I hope he doesn't have to throw many innings.

I agree with you completely.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Damn.

Lip

HawkDJ
01-09-2009, 06:17 PM
I can't see him throwing too many innings

JUribe1989
01-09-2009, 06:23 PM
It's not like this is FIBA Basketball. What's the big deal if Thornton plays in the WBC? If anything, he'll get less innings in the WBC as opposed to spring training. A left-handed specialist in the bullpen isn't any overt injury concern of mine.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2009, 07:34 PM
The issue is him having to start throwing earlier just to get in "shape" to participate in this goofy made for TV event.

He's now got a shorter off season.

In early March, when under normal circumstances, pitchers are just trying to stretch out by throwing fastballs, Thornton now has to try to go all out against hitters in a "real" game and throw his entire assortment of pitches including sliders.

More unneeded wear and tear on an arm already laboring under a shorter off season.

Lip

munchman33
01-09-2009, 08:30 PM
The issue is him having to start throwing earlier just to get in "shape" to participate in this goofy made for TV event.

He's now got a shorter off season.

In early March, when under normal circumstances, pitchers are just trying to stretch out by throwing fastballs, Thornton now has to try to go all out against hitters in a "real" game and throw his entire assortment of pitches including sliders.

More unneeded wear and tear on an arm already laboring under a shorter off season.

Lip

Plenty of guys throw in winter leagues and don't have a problem. If Thornton breaks down next year, it'll be because of the wear and tear the White Sox put on him, not the 10 innings he'll be throwing in the WBC.

turners56
01-09-2009, 08:36 PM
Just don't overuse him or injure him.

Lip Man 1
01-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Munch:

It's not "just" ten innings. It's having to start ramping up his schedule now on January 10th instead of slowly working into it for another few weeks before starting to throw seriously to get back into pitching shape.

It's a shorter off season.

He'll be going full bore in mid February when normally pitchers are just introducing themselves to teammates at spring training.

It adds up.

Especially when September rolls around.

Lip

guillensdisciple
01-10-2009, 12:02 PM
I like it, hopefully he does extremely well!

Woofer
01-10-2009, 12:14 PM
I am also not big on having one of our pitchers in the WBC. Couldn't we just send Brian Anderson instead? He could use the playing time.

chisox616
01-10-2009, 02:53 PM
I gotta say though, that roster is looking pretty good.

BadBobbyJenks
01-10-2009, 07:11 PM
Not a big deal at all, good for Matt.

munchman33
01-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Munch:

It's not "just" ten innings. It's having to start ramping up his schedule now on January 10th instead of slowly working into it for another few weeks before starting to throw seriously to get back into pitching shape.

It's a shorter off season.

He'll be going full bore in mid February when normally pitchers are just introducing themselves to teammates at spring training.

It adds up.

Especially when September rolls around.

Lip

I still don't see the difference with this and the hundreds of major leaguers that participate in winter ball who it isn't an issue for.

Lip Man 1
01-10-2009, 08:35 PM
Munch:

A lot of those guys have been doing it for awhile, they have adapted to the grin somewhat.

Thornton hasn't played winter ball to the best of my knowledge. This is uncharted territory for him.

I don't want to risk any Sox player in a made for TV event. If they need to risk something, let them do it for games that actually prepare them for the regular season or the regular season itself...which could lead to postseason play.

Lip

BadBobbyJenks
01-10-2009, 08:41 PM
Munch:

A lot of those guys have been doing it for awhile, they have adapted to the grin somewhat.

Thornton hasn't played winter ball to the best of my knowledge. This is uncharted territory for him.

I don't want to risk any Sox player in a made for TV event. If they need to risk something, let them do it for games that actually prepare them for the regular season or the regular season itself...which could lead to postseason play.

Lip

Isn't the MLB season a made for TV event?

areilly
01-10-2009, 08:41 PM
I don't want to risk any Sox player in a made for TV event. If they need to risk something, let them do it for games that actually prepare them for the regular season or the regular season itself...which could lead to postseason play.

Lip

I know your stance on the WBC, and you've made some good points about the pressure some of the Latin players are under, but I don't see how any of us have the right to take Thornton's decision as an affront to. . . well, to anything, really. It's his career, his choice and his arm. Let him do what he wants with all three. Not like he needs our approval anyway.

Lip Man 1
01-10-2009, 08:50 PM
Bad Bobby:

The regular season has a legit payoff at the end... a possible trip to the World Series.

Whoever wins the WBC can take the trophy and 50 cents and make a phone call.

------------

Reilly:

I'm not dissing Matt, he can do what he wants and I don't think I'm trying to insult him but if he's hurt the Sox have the right to say, we're not paying you, you didn't get hurt pitching for us.

To me what the Sox do, is far more important than the goofy WBC and to me even though the chance is small, it's not worth the risk. It's also not worth the risk to me of having a guy ineffictive come August - September hurting the teams chances because he had to start training earlier and have a shorter off season / recovery period.

But again Matt can do what he wants as long as he's willing to accept the consequences.

Lip

Noneck
01-10-2009, 08:59 PM
I don't think I'm trying to insult him but if he's hurt the Sox have the right to say, we're not paying you, you didn't get hurt pitching for us.






Lip are you saying that any player playing in the WBC is not authorized by their MLB club and the club will have to the right not to pay them if they are injured?

Lip Man 1
01-11-2009, 01:38 PM
Noneck:

I don't know what is involved... I'm saying that if Thornton were to get hurt, to me, the Sox would have the right to say "we're not paying you the balance of your contract, you didn't get hurt pitching for us..."

Whether they could legally get away with that is something the courts would have to decide.

Lip

EndemicSox
01-12-2009, 05:40 PM
Good for him, made for TV or not, playing for your country is never a bad thing.

munchman33
01-12-2009, 06:13 PM
Noneck:

I don't know what is involved... I'm saying that if Thornton were to get hurt, to me, the Sox would have the right to say "we're not paying you the balance of your contract, you didn't get hurt pitching for us..."

Whether they could legally get away with that is something the courts would have to decide.

Lip

The tournament is sanctioned by MLB. It would be akin to getting injured in the AFL.

khan
01-13-2009, 12:30 PM
I have two thoughts on this:


This is beyond moronic for Matt Thornton to put himself in harm's way for a poorly-organized and poorly-regulated tournament that no one cares about and that can possibly shorten his career.
Poreda had better be ready sooner rather than later.
That is all.

munchman33
01-13-2009, 01:18 PM
I have two thoughts on this:


This is beyond moronic for Matt Thornton to put himself in harm's way for a poorly-organized and poorly-regulated tournament that no one cares about and that can possibly shorten his career.
Poreda had better be ready sooner rather than later.
That is all.

I love how people judge other's decisions based on their own completely biased perceptions.

You might not like the WBC. But a lot of people do. Especially people in other countries. Oh, and people who play baseball. People like Matt Thornton.

hi im skot
01-13-2009, 01:46 PM
I have two thoughts on this:


This is beyond moronic for Matt Thornton to put himself in harm's way for a poorly-organized and poorly-regulated tournament that no one cares about and that can possibly shorten his career.
Poreda had better be ready sooner rather than later.
That is all.

Do you like anyone on the Sox?

EnglishChiSox
01-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Ban all Pro Sports, someone might get hurt.

khan
01-13-2009, 01:53 PM
Ban all Pro Sports, someone might get hurt.

Do the players get paid to play in the WBC? I honestly don't know.

And, as you live in Portsmouth, Alan Shearer would disagree with those who play for their countries rather than devote their energies to their clubs. But then, FIFA's organization/regulation over THEIR international events >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that of the WBC.

kjhanson
01-13-2009, 01:56 PM
There's a lot ignorance in this thread. Let's set some things straight here:

- If Thornton were to get hurt, the White Sox can't say boo about it. As munchman said, this is an MLB event. It would be comparable to Thornton getting hurt in the All Star game. The "courts" would have nothing to decide.

- The U.S. plays its first game on March 7th, about three weeks prior to the beginning of the regular season. By that time, the White Sox will have already played 9 spring training games. (the U.S. has three games scheduled before the tourney begins)

- If the U.S. advances all the way to the championship game, they will have played 10 games in 17 days. The White Sox have 14 games scheduled in that same time span

- Based on the preliminary roster, Thornton would likely be the third lefty used behind Fuentes and B.J. Ryan

EnglishChiSox
01-13-2009, 01:57 PM
Do the players get paid to play in the WBC? I honestly don't know.

And, as you live in Portsmouth, Alan Shearer would disagree with those who play for their countries rather than devote their energies to their clubs. But then, FIFA's organization/regulation over THEIR international events >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that of the WBC.

I'm not sure about that....

They don't get paid for decorating their house but they could fall off a ladder and wreck their arm that way. It's a possibility something could go because of the WBC but is it such a risk to say to someone you can't represent your country in an international event?

khan
01-13-2009, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure about that....

They don't get paid for decorating their house but they could fall off a ladder and wreck their arm that way.
Sure. But on the other hand, many professional athletes' contracts contain a list of prohibited activities, so as to prevent unneccesary injury. Ask Jay Williams about that.

It's a possibility something could go because of the WBC but is it such a risk to say to someone you can't represent your country in an international event?

A player can do what he wants. But that doesn't mean that I as a fan have to like it. I don't waste my time watching the WBC, and the overriding majority of MLB fans don't, either. I waited my entire life to see a WS championship, and I'd rather see White Sox players perform for their club.

Honestly, my only interest in the WBC is to use it as a scouting tool for future Cuban defectors for KW to sign.

RockJock07
01-14-2009, 11:17 PM
Yes but he doesn't look like he's throwing hard. With his motion it looks like he's not putting forth much effort at all.

True true, was gonna post that same thing but you beat me to it. I'm glad he's doing this, more guys should and stop being *****'s about it. Although this isn't for a gold medal, something should be said for going out there and playing for your country no matter what level of competition.

Sam Spade
01-15-2009, 02:42 AM
I have two thoughts on this:


This is beyond moronic for Matt Thornton to put himself in harm's way for a poorly-organized and poorly-regulated tournament that no one cares about and that can possibly shorten his career.
Poreda had better be ready sooner rather than later.

That is all.

If I were Matt Thorton, I'd jump at this opportunity. Pitchers like Peavy are playing, and you are criticizing Matt freaking Thorton for putting himself in harm's way. Have you lost your mind?

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-15-2009, 02:51 AM
If I were Matt Thorton, I'd jump at this opportunity. Pitchers like Peavy are playing, and you are criticizing Matt freaking Thorton for putting himself in harm's way. Have you lost your mind?

Look at some of the pitchers that played in the last WBC (Freddy Garcia for example) and how it affected them. There is a chance that Thornton could hurt himself, or suffer from fatigue near the end of the season, in which him and Bobby were the only consistant ones last year. It's not crazy to wish a player on the Sox wasn't in the WBC. I'm sure all of us would rather have increaded chances of making the playoffs again than seeing team USA winning the WBC.

EnglishChiSox
01-15-2009, 10:31 AM
Look at some of the pitchers that played in the last WBC (Freddy Garcia for example) and how it affected them. There is a chance that Thornton could hurt himself, or suffer from fatigue near the end of the season, in which him and Bobby were the only consistant ones last year. It's not crazy to wish a player on the Sox wasn't in the WBC. I'm sure all of us would rather have increaded chances of making the playoffs again than seeing team USA winning the WBC.

Peavy also got injured, those 2 are starters though. How many Relievers injured themselves or wore down in the 2006 WBC out of interest? And i'm sure Matt will not be throwing 99mph at the WBC.

areilly
01-15-2009, 10:47 AM
Look at some of the pitchers that played in the last WBC (Freddy Garcia for example) and how it affected them. There is a chance that Thornton could hurt himself, or suffer from fatigue near the end of the season, in which him and Bobby were the only consistant ones last year. It's not crazy to wish a player on the Sox wasn't in the WBC. I'm sure all of us would rather have increaded chances of making the playoffs again than seeing team USA winning the WBC.

Freddy's best month in 2006 was September. Javy's September was a typical Javy month, i.e. average-to-mediocre down the stretch. It's not crazy to think a guy who plays baseball for a living would know how to take care of himself. I'm sure any of them would rather have more guaranteed chances of playing the game on some meaningful, competitive level than stay home banking on October opportunities that may never come.

khan
01-15-2009, 02:34 PM
If I were Matt Thorton, I'd jump at this opportunity. Pitchers like Peavy are playing, and you are criticizing Matt freaking Thorton for putting himself in harm's way. Have you lost your mind?
I don't give a damn what Peavy does.

I'm not entirely sure what pitching in a poorly-organized and poorly-regulated tournament does for a player. No one has told me if the players get paid for their appearances, so I'm assuming that they don't. [In Soccer, players are paid by their clubs, as well as their national associations to play for their countries, BTW.] So exactly what sort of "opportunity" is this contrived pile of crap that is the WBC to a MLB player?

The MLB IS the highest level of competition in this sport. If you're a player in the leagues of Mexico or Korea or the Dominican, I'd concede that there is the opportunity to perform at a higher/more visible level. But for MLB players, exactly what is the allure? [And don't give me the "representing your country" BS. If it were such a big freakin' deal, then these guys can enlist in the Marines or Army and "represent their country" as I and many others have done.]

Matt Thornton was on his way out of the game of baseball, until KW/Coop saw something in him that could be fixed. That the SOX gave him the shot to resurrect his then-dying career should mean something to him. That he's risking what he has gained by playing in the WBC is silly to me. That he may be less-effective or injured [in a year when the bullpen will be used more] is disappointing to me as a fan.

munchman33
01-15-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm not entirely sure what pitching in a poorly-organized and poorly-regulated tournament does for a player.

I'd say that's your opinion, but saying that means it's open to interpretation. You're just wrong, the tournament itself is run very well. I can see that you're biased. I just can't figure out why? Is it because you don't like tournaments that showcase nationalist passion?

Your notion that Matt Thornton owes his career to the White Sox is silly. When his contract's up, he isn't going to take significantly less money and resign here because of "team devotion."

The irony is you believe "team devotion," an idea not displayed by the bulk of MLB players, is somehow expected and "national devotion," an idea displayed by the MAJORITY of MLB players, is not.

Iwritecode
01-15-2009, 02:46 PM
There's a lot ignorance in this thread. Let's set some things straight here:

- If Thornton were to get hurt, the White Sox can't say boo about it. As munchman said, this is an MLB event. It would be comparable to Thornton getting hurt in the All Star game. The "courts" would have nothing to decide.

- The U.S. plays its first game on March 7th, about three weeks prior to the beginning of the regular season. By that time, the White Sox will have already played 9 spring training games. (the U.S. has three games scheduled before the tourney begins)

- If the U.S. advances all the way to the championship game, they will have played 10 games in 17 days. The White Sox have 14 games scheduled in that same time span

- Based on the preliminary roster, Thornton would likely be the third lefty used behind Fuentes and B.J. Ryan

After reading this post, I'm curious to know from the people who are against it why they think the players would treat this thing as anything more than just another spring training game?

khan
01-15-2009, 02:55 PM
I'd say that's your opinion, but saying that means it's open to interpretation. You're just wrong, the tournament itself is run very well.
Based on what, YOUR conjecture? Compared to almost every other international sporting competition, the WBC sucks ass. In a country that hates soccer, more people watch the World Cup of soccer than the WBC. For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me if more people watched the Womens' World Cup than the WBC.

I can see that you're biased.
And you're wrong. Again.

Is it because you don't like tournaments that showcase nationalist passion?
Actually, I enjoy the World Cup of soccer. But THAT'S organized by FIFA, not by the English Premier League, nor the Italian Serie A, nor the German Bundisliga.

The WBC, OTOH, is organized by MLB, who can't even keep PEDs out of their sport, nor decide if the DH is better/worse than watching pitchers strike out, nor hold an international draft for amateurs. For that matter, the WBC is the only international tournament that can't even keep weed out of it.


Your notion that Matt Thornton owes his career to the White Sox is silly.
And you're wrong. Again. Matt Thornton was on his way out of baseball until KW picked him up.

When his contract's up, he isn't going to take significantly less money and resign here because of "team devotion."

The irony is you believe "team devotion," an idea not displayed by the bulk of MLB players, is somehow expected and "national devotion," an idea displayed by the MAJORITY of MLB players, is not.
Show us where I typed "team devotion" OR "national devotion."

munchman33
01-15-2009, 03:34 PM
Based on what, YOUR conjecture? Compared to almost every other international sporting competition, the WBC sucks ass. In a country that hates soccer, more people watch the World Cup of soccer than the WBC. For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me if more people watched the Womens' World Cup than the WBC.


And you're wrong. Again.


Actually, I enjoy the World Cup of soccer. But THAT'S organized by FIFA, not by the English Premier League, nor the Italian Serie A, nor the German Bundisliga.

The WBC, OTOH, is organized by MLB, who can't even keep PEDs out of their sport, nor decide if the DH is better/worse than watching pitchers strike out, nor hold an international draft for amateurs. For that matter, the WBC is the only international tournament that can't even keep weed out of it.



And you're wrong. Again. Matt Thornton was on his way out of baseball until KW picked him up.


Show us where I typed "team devotion" OR "national devotion."

I suggest you reread your original post.

areilly
01-15-2009, 04:12 PM
But for MLB players, exactly what is the allure? [And don't give me the "representing your country" BS. If it were such a big freakin' deal, then these guys can enlist in the Marines or Army and "represent their country" as I and many others have done.]

I theorize here, as do you since neither of us are professional ballplayers, but I imagine the allure is some combination of:
1. Playing more baseball.
2. Starting competition sooner.
3. Playing alongside some of the best players in the world.
4. Playing against some of the best players in the world, many of whom will never become employees of MLB.
5. Learning new things from different coaches.
6. Reclaiming the pride lost when the country that invented the game was beaten at it by so many other countries.
7. Becoming an ambassador for the game outside of the Sox fanbase.
8. A chance to shine on a larger stage than Comcast Sports Net.
9. Learning about other schools and styles of baseball.
10. Learning about other cultures through firsthand interaction with people of those cultures rather than second- and third-hand accounts of those cultures.
11. Having fun.

Thornton has nothing to prove to either you or I or anyone, really. I say good for him.

Frankly, to call his motives "BS" is rather dismissive. There are many ways to represent your country. A person could enlist, as you and countless others have. A person could fight poverty and illiteracy. A person could become a teacher. A person could give large sums of money to a worthy cause. A person could fight corruption at the highest levels. A person could simply give others something to cheer about. A person could . . . you know, I'll just stop.

Honestly, I can't decide if you're taking Thornton's decision too seriously or not seriously enough.

EnglishChiSox
01-15-2009, 04:25 PM
.
6. Reclaiming the pride lost when the country that invented the game was beaten at it by so many other countries.



We're not even allowed to compete. http://www.walkoffwalk.com/2008/09/baseball-is-as-british-as-cott.html

Phil Stockman would have owned A-Rod.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

And the Soccer WC is completely different. And despite the soccer international teams getting paid, England players give most of theirs to charity.