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View Full Version : Phil Rogers = Officially Insane


Vernam
01-05-2009, 09:33 PM
Searched but didn't find any WSI mention of yesterday's Trib story about Phil Rogers's proudly ridiculous (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-04-hall-rogersjan04,0,906029.story) vote for Mark Grace to be in the Hall of Fame. This would be funny if not for the fact that people -- oh, let's say Harold Baines -- truly deserving of consideration are being completely ignored.

Once ol' Gracie gets in, I bet they'll start making the case for Adolfo Phillips. Or maybe Shawon Dunston. The possibilities are endless.

Vernam

DSpivack
01-05-2009, 09:57 PM
Did you read the whole thing? He ranks his ballot "in order of feelings" he has for the players. Rickey Henderson is #1, but Raines and Baines are last. :rolleyes:

This joke long lost any credibility he ever had.

Vernam
01-05-2009, 10:24 PM
Did you read the whole thing? He ranks his ballot "in order of feelings" he has for the players. Rickey Henderson is #1, but Raines and Baines are last. :rolleyes:Yep, and I should've mentioned that the story was part of a two-page spread with the other Trib eligible voter's ballots. They're linked here (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090103-hall-ballot,0,2611073.htmlstory), which will save people the trouble of reading all that tripe.

You're right, DSpivack, Rogers at least put Harold on his ballot, though he didn't care enough to write about him. Of the nine Trib voters, the only other to include Baines was Sullivan. I'm not saying Harold necessarily deserves to be in the Hall, but the lack of respect from hometown writers is glaring. It reflects more on them than on him. :angry:

Vernam

JUribe1989
01-05-2009, 10:26 PM
He's the hit king of the '90s. It's not all that ridiculous of a vote.

:shrug:

gregoriop
01-05-2009, 10:32 PM
He's the hit king of the '90s. It's not all that ridiculous of a vote.

:shrug:


I'm the greatest poster named gregoriop this site has ever had. I should be considered.

Brian26
01-05-2009, 10:33 PM
Almost all of the Trib guys yesterday included Blyleven on their list too.

kittle42
01-05-2009, 10:35 PM
Neither deserves it, so who cares?

RadioheadRocks
01-05-2009, 10:36 PM
Did you read the whole thing? He ranks his ballot "in order of feelings" he has for the players. Rickey Henderson is #1, but Raines and Baines are last. :rolleyes:

This joke long lost any credibility he ever had.

"Feelings, whoa whoa whoa feelings..."

rdivaldi
01-06-2009, 12:14 AM
Neither deserves it, so who cares?

Harold is 28th career in RBI
33rd in Total Bases
40th in Hits
50th in Extra Base Hits
53rd in HR
57th in 2B
and is a 6 time All Star.

I don't see how he doesn't deserve some favorable consideration for the HOF.

WhiteSox5187
01-06-2009, 12:19 AM
Honestly, both Grace and Baines deserve SOME consideration for the HOF, though Baines is far more deserving. If I had a HOF vote, I would probably vote for Grace and that's simply because he was one of my favorite players in the 1990s.

jabrch
01-06-2009, 12:52 AM
Harold is 28th career in RBI
33rd in Total Bases
40th in Hits
50th in Extra Base Hits
53rd in HR
57th in 2B
and is a 6 time All Star.

I don't see how he doesn't deserve some favorable consideration for the HOF.


Consideration - sure

In the HOF? I'd rather not see either Harold or Grace in. Neither belong. If Rice doesn't get in, and I don't want him in either, you can't make a case for those two.

guillensdisciple
01-06-2009, 02:02 AM
Don't like Mark Grace, don't like Chicago papers or any sports reporting. White Sox don't matter to anyone else but White Sox fans, so I am turning a blind eye to this and saying **** Mark Grace and **** Phil Roger's wacky ideas.

SOXfnNlansing
01-06-2009, 02:22 AM
I'll take this opportunity to say that Rickey Henderson is a 1st ballot HOF'er. I'd put santo in before grace.

Konerko05
01-06-2009, 04:56 AM
I'll take this opportunity to say that Rickey Henderson is a 1st ballot HOF'er.

Anyone who debates that should just stop watching baseball.

WSox597
01-06-2009, 06:02 AM
Rickey Henderson would like to tell everybody that Rickey Henderson does belong in the HOF.

Ricky Henderson thanks you.


Kidding aside, he does belong there.

jabrch
01-06-2009, 07:34 AM
One more thought on Grace. After Mattingly gets in, then Grace gets in.

NEVER

Thome25
01-06-2009, 07:57 AM
Hell if Mark Grace deserves to go, then Robin Ventura is a first ballot HOFer.

areilly
01-06-2009, 09:46 AM
Honestly, both Grace and Baines deserve SOME consideration for the HOF, though Baines is far more deserving. If I had a HOF vote, I would probably vote for Grace and that's simply because he was one of my favorite players in the 1990s.

But, but, it's the HALL! There are no FEELINGS, just an ordererly, systematic, formulaic weighing of THE BEST PLAYERS!

5187, your use of subjective standards has no place in this discussion. None. Won't somebody please think of the children?!?

I still think it's awesome how Dante Bichette received not one but three votes his first time up.

twentywontowin
01-06-2009, 09:56 AM
The only Hall of Fame that Mark Grace belongs to is the one where Ray Liotta steals his wife.

Oh, wait...

Thome25
01-06-2009, 10:13 AM
The only Hall of Fame that Mark Grace belongs to is the one where Ray Liotta steals his wife.

Oh, wait...

You my friend have just won this thread. :rolling:

Jim Shorts
01-06-2009, 11:12 AM
the only hall of fame that mark grace belongs to is the one where ray liotta steals his wife.

Oh, wait...



oh!




No!



You!




Diin't?

NLaloosh
01-06-2009, 11:33 AM
The MOST overrated ATHLETE in Chicago sports HISTORY is Mark Grace.

1. You would have to go back to the deadball era to find a firstbaseman that started 10 years in the big leagues and never once drove in 100 runs or hit 20 homers. That's a fact.

2. Take a look at the other firstbasemen that played on other teams during Grace's career and tell me how many would have started ahead of Grace. The fact is he would've been a benchwarmer on most teams.

3. The flubbies lost more games than any other team in baseball during Grace's career with the team.

4. A few comments about the one statistic in Grace's career that is worth mentioning - his 1990's hit leader thing:

It's a lucky stat to begin with because it is predicated on the timing of player's careers. There were many players that played during his time that accumulated more hits in 10 consecutive seasons but if they're peak years were say 1993-2002 or 1987-1996 then they wouldn't be the "hit leader of the 90's". Grace's career happened to be timed perfectly to win that.

Secondly, if you check out his total hits for the decade it's very low - lower than the leader for any other decade. Again, luck.

Lastly, only the flubbies would play a singles hitting firstbaseman at Wrigley for so long. Maybe that's why they lost so many games. Here was a guy hitting in the middle of the lineup at a homerun hitting park and yet he couldn't hit 20 dingers or knock in 100 runs ? Even once ?

The guy was a backup as far as I'm concerned. A singles hitter that couldn't run and couldn't play any position - had to put him at first base.

HOF ? If he were included it would be easier to list the players that shouldn't be in the HOF.

Jim Shorts
01-06-2009, 11:50 AM
The MOST overrated ATHLETE in Chicago sports HISTORY is Mark Grace.

1. You would have to go back to the deadball era to find a firstbaseman that started 10 years in the big leagues and never once drove in 100 runs or hit 20 homers. That's a fact.

2. Take a look at the other firstbasemen that played on other teams during Grace's career and tell me how many would have started ahead of Grace. The fact is he would've been a benchwarmer on most teams.

3. The flubbies lost more games than any other team in baseball during Grace's career with the team.

4. A few comments about the one statistic in Grace's career that is worth mentioning - his 1990's hit leader thing:

It's a lucky stat to begin with because it is predicated on the timing of player's careers. There were many players that played during his time that accumulated more hits in 10 consecutive seasons but if they're peak years were say 1993-2002 or 1987-1996 then they wouldn't be the "hit leader of the 90's". Grace's career happened to be timed perfectly to win that.

Secondly, if you check out his total hits for the decade it's very low - lower than the leader for any other decade. Again, luck.

Lastly, only the flubbies would play a singles hitting firstbaseman at Wrigley for so long. Maybe that's why they lost so many games. Here was a guy hitting in the middle of the lineup at a homerun hitting park and yet he couldn't hit 20 dingers or knock in 100 runs ? Even once ?

The guy was a backup as far as I'm concerned. A singles hitter that couldn't run and couldn't play any position - had to put him at first base.

HOF ? If he were included it would be easier to list the players that shouldn't be in the HOF.

Nuke -

Don't hide it. How do you really feel about Mark Grace?

munchman33
01-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Wait a minute...a local sports writer is taking up the case of an exteremely popular borderline local candadite? That's unbelievable!

Craig Grebeck
01-06-2009, 12:02 PM
The MOST overrated ATHLETE in Chicago sports HISTORY is Mark Grace.

1. You would have to go back to the deadball era to find a firstbaseman that started 10 years in the big leagues and never once drove in 100 runs or hit 20 homers. That's a fact.

2. Take a look at the other firstbasemen that played on other teams during Grace's career and tell me how many would have started ahead of Grace. The fact is he would've been a benchwarmer on most teams.

3. The flubbies lost more games than any other team in baseball during Grace's career with the team.

4. A few comments about the one statistic in Grace's career that is worth mentioning - his 1990's hit leader thing:

It's a lucky stat to begin with because it is predicated on the timing of player's careers. There were many players that played during his time that accumulated more hits in 10 consecutive seasons but if they're peak years were say 1993-2002 or 1987-1996 then they wouldn't be the "hit leader of the 90's". Grace's career happened to be timed perfectly to win that.

Secondly, if you check out his total hits for the decade it's very low - lower than the leader for any other decade. Again, luck.

Lastly, only the flubbies would play a singles hitting firstbaseman at Wrigley for so long. Maybe that's why they lost so many games. Here was a guy hitting in the middle of the lineup at a homerun hitting park and yet he couldn't hit 20 dingers or knock in 100 runs ? Even once ?

The guy was a backup as far as I'm concerned. A singles hitter that couldn't run and couldn't play any position - had to put him at first base.

HOF ? If he were included it would be easier to list the players that shouldn't be in the HOF.
I'll take a first baseman with a career 119 OPS+ any day of the week. He was a damn good ballplayer.

Zisk77
01-06-2009, 12:14 PM
I'll take a first baseman with a career 119 OPS+ any day of the week. He was a damn good ballplayer.


Sure he was damn good...but not a hall of famer.

twentywontowin
01-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Sure he was damn good...but not a hall of famer.

Exactly. I would think Hoppin' Ronnie has a better shot than Grace.

Dick Allen
01-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Grace was a good hitter and an outstanding fielder, but as mentioned, not a HOF'er. Does anyone remember how he nearly came to the White Sox when he was a free agent? But at the last minute, he returned to the Cubs.

PatK
01-06-2009, 01:01 PM
Palmiero should be in if Grace gets in.

Didn't he lead the 1990s in doubles, or extra base hits, or something like that?

And he was #2 in hits in the 90s

kittle42
01-06-2009, 01:33 PM
Palmiero should be in if Grace gets in.

Didn't he lead the 1990s in doubles, or extra base hits, or something like that?

And he was #2 in hits in the 90s

Raffy was a far better player. He'll only not be in because of the roids.

Konerko05
01-06-2009, 03:25 PM
The guy was a backup as far as I'm concerned. A singles hitter that couldn't run and couldn't play any position - had to put him at first base.


Mark Grace might not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but you among others are selling him a little short.

Back up first baseman?

Grace finished his long career with a line of .303/.383/.442. He was extremely consistent. He had great plate disicpline. He also played gold glove 1B. I would gladly take that kind of production out of my 1B.

Singles hitter?

He ended up with 511 doubles, and 1075 walks. He may not be your prototypical homerun hitting first baseman, but he was an above average player.

DSpivack
01-06-2009, 03:35 PM
Mark Grace does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but you among others are selling him a little short.

Back up first baseman?

Grace finished his long career with a line of .303/.383/.442. He was extremely consistent. He had great plate disicpline. He also played gold glove 1B. I would gladly take that kind of production out of my 1B.

Singles hitter?

He ended up with 511 doubles, and 1075 walks. He may not be your prototypical homerun hitting first baseman, but he was an above average player.

He did lead baseball in hits in the 1990s, that has to count for something.

Although the Diamondbacks broadcasts should knock him down a notch or three. No one there takes their games seriously.

kittle42
01-06-2009, 03:53 PM
He did lead baseball in hits in the 1990s, that has to count for something.

I agree that Grace was a good player, but, as pointed out earlier, these "decade" stats take a bit of luck, as really only the players who played 9 or all 10 years in the decade are at the top of the lists.

ode to veeck
01-06-2009, 06:08 PM
I'd put santo in before grace.

bite your tongue

ode to veeck
01-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Mark Grace might not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but you among others are selling him a little short.

Back up first baseman?

Grace finished his long career with a line of .303/.383/.442. He was extremely consistent. He had great plate disicpline. He also played gold glove 1B. I would gladly take that kind of production out of my 1B.

Singles hitter?

He ended up with 511 doubles, and 1075 walks. He may not be your prototypical homerun hitting first baseman, but he was an above average player.

played extremely well in the post season as well

ode to veeck
01-06-2009, 06:13 PM
Palmiero should be in if Grace gets in.

Didn't he lead the 1990s in doubles, or extra base hits, or something like that?

And he was #2 in hits in the 90s

Palmiero won't get in for the same reason McGwire won't
Grace was a great player (in spit of other posts in this thread) but not HOF material

Brian26
01-06-2009, 07:14 PM
The MOST overrated ATHLETE in Chicago sports HISTORY is Mark Grace.

Couldn't disagree with you more. That comment is foolish, as are the reasons you listed for it.

I always thought Grace was a great player, in fact one of my all-time favorite non-Sox players.

salty99
01-06-2009, 07:23 PM
Couldn't disagree with you more. That comment is foolish, as are the reasons you listed for it.

I always thought Grace was a great player, in fact one of my all-time favorite non-Sox players.

Cub fan

Brian26
01-06-2009, 07:24 PM
Cub fan

:tealpolice:

ode to veeck
01-06-2009, 09:34 PM
I always thought Grace was a great player, in fact one of my all-time favorite non-Sox players.

after he went to AZ, it was a lot easier to not like the Flubs

SOX ADDICT '73
01-07-2009, 12:00 AM
Raffy was a far better player. He'll only not be in because of the roids.
Raffy was a far better player...because of the roids.

(You had a few extra words in there!:wink:)

AZChiSoxFan
01-07-2009, 10:52 AM
Although the Diamondbacks broadcasts should knock him down a notch or three. No one there takes their games seriously.

Thank you!! That's the same thing I've been saying for a while.

It's also the same reason I don't like Joe Buck. IMO, he views a broadcast as a chance to be a smug, smart ass wise guy. Most guys got past that stage in life in the 9th or 10th grade.

TommyJohn
01-07-2009, 12:06 PM
Thank you!! That's the same thing I've been saying for a while.

It's also the same reason I don't like Joe Buck. IMO, he views a broadcast as a chance to be a smug, smart ass wise guy. Most guys got past that stage in life in the 9th or 10th grade.

The number one reason that I do not like Bob Costas. He is the same way, in my opinion.

VeeckAsInWreck
01-07-2009, 12:12 PM
The number one reason that I do not like Bob Costas. He is the same way, in my opinion.

Bob Costas does come off as very arrogant. Also, I hate his undying Yankee love.

PennStater98r
01-07-2009, 12:34 PM
He's the hit king of the '90s. It's not all that ridiculous of a vote.

:shrug:


No he wasn't. He was #2.

Jim Shorts
01-07-2009, 12:46 PM
Bob Costas does come off as very arrogant. Also, I hate his undying Yankee love.

He's a Cardinal fan to boot.

doublem23
01-07-2009, 12:48 PM
No he wasn't. He was #2.

He was #1

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_/ai_64150741

PennStater98r
01-15-2009, 10:24 AM
No he wasn't. He was #2.

Wow - when you're wrong you're wrong - I wonder if the numbers I saw years ago were from 1991 to 2000 (which makes no sense), but I swear to you that I did see numbers indicating that Rafael was #1 in the '90s.