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View Full Version : As Currently Constructed, How Many Wins For The 2009 White Sox?


WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2008, 10:24 PM
I first want to start off by saying that I know Kenny isn't done making moves and that the finished product will probably be, at least, somewhat different from what we're looking at today (12/23/08). That being said, my point is to see how you guys feel about the roster, as is today, and how you will feel about the final roster right before Opening Day (I'll conduct another poll a week or so before Opening Day). Now, I also know that chances are most all of us will feel better about the team right before Opening Day and will most likely feel like they will win more games than the team as it is today. But, I also want to see how much of a change there will be.

Here is the currently projected 2009 Roster:
Starters:
C - AJ Pierzynski
1B - Paul Konerko
2B - Chris Getz (according to Ozzie)
SS - Alexei Ramirez
3B - Josh Fields (according to Ozzie)
LF - Carlos Quentin
CF - Jerry Owens (according to Ozzie)
RF - Jermaine Dye
DH - Jim Thome

Bench:
C - Cole Armstrong
INF - Wilson Betemit
INF - Brent Lillibridge
INF - Jayson Nix
OF - Brian Anderson
OF - Dewaye Wise

Starting Rotation:
Mark Buehrle
Gavin Floyd
John Danks
Clayton Richard (according to reports/speculation)
Lance Broadway/Jeff Marquez/Aaron Poreda (according to reports/speculation)

Bullpen:
Bobby Jenks
Scott Linebrink
Octavio Dotel
Matt Thornton
D.J. Carrasco
Adam Russell (just a guess)

btrain929
12-23-2008, 10:29 PM
80-82. I think one of our young SP's will do admirable, and the others will tank. Thome will hit the DL for a month, Konerko will have a slight bounceback, Quentin will dropoff a bit, Dotel will hit the DL, leaving our bullpen in shambles again, and at which point we'll find out if Adam Russell is here for good or not. But the good news is during September callups, Jack Egbert and Jhonny Nunez will come up and dominate.

Whoa, what happened, I blacked out...

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2008, 10:31 PM
80-82. I think one of our young SP's will do admirable, and the others will tank. Thome will hit the DL for a month, Konerko will have a slight bounceback, Quentin will dropoff a bit, Dotel will hit the DL, leaving our bullpen in shambles again, and at which point we'll find out if Adam Russell is here for good or not. But the good news is during September callups, Jack Egbert and Jhonny Nunez will come up and dominate.

Whoa, what happened, I blacked out...

I don't know but I did get a closeup of you during that ramble...

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2003_Old_School/Thumb/003OSC_Will_Ferrell_033.jpg

Focused. Informed. Excellent Tie.

soxfanreggie
12-23-2008, 10:31 PM
I hate having to rely on so many question marks from inexperience. Hopefully the young guys surprise me, but I can't say I'm confident for next year with our current roster.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 10:40 PM
I don't know but I did get a closeup of you during that ramble...

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2003_Old_School/Thumb/003OSC_Will_Ferrell_033.jpg

Focused. Informed. Excellent Tie.

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/james_carville1%5B1%5D.jpg "We....have no response: that was perfect."

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2008, 10:41 PM
http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/james_carville1%5B1%5D.jpg "We....have no response: that was perfect."

yeh.... that.... was me.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 10:43 PM
yeh.... that.... was me.

I didn't know you were married, congrats man! Might I suggest some lotion for you hands, though....

whitesox901
12-23-2008, 10:44 PM
85-95 wins and here is why:

Mark, Gavin and John all win 18+ games
Bullpen is Solid
TCQ, Konerko, Dye and Thome put up typical seasons (30+ HR, 80+ RBI, ECT)
Richard wins 15 games, posts a low 4 ERA
The Kids CAN play, and do so very well

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2008, 10:45 PM
I didn't know you were married, congrats man! Might I suggest some lotion for you hands, though....

This is Andrew Bernard!

WhiteSox5187
12-23-2008, 10:46 PM
As it's constructed right now, I think it's anywhere from 78-83 wins. If EVERYTHING goes right and everyone stays healthy and there are no dramatic setbacks from 2008 and Broadway and Richard or whoever can do a good impersonation of Danks and Floyd, then this team could win 90+ games. But an awful lot has to go right for that to happen!

Conversely, this team could lose ninety games, but an awful lot of things have to go wrong for that to happen.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 10:47 PM
85-95 wins and here is why:

Mark, Gavin and John all win 18+ games
Bullpen is Solid
TCQ, Konerko, Dye and Thome put up typical seasons (30+ HR, 80+ RBI, ECT)
Richard wins 15 games, posts a low 4 ERA
The Kids CAN play, and do so very well

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f1/Herbert_(Family_Guy).JPG "Sweet Jesus..."

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2008, 10:48 PM
For the record, I voted "Less Than 81 Wins" because, like someone mentioned earlier, there are a lot of unknowns. I'm hoping for more, of course, and would gladly accept being proven wrong.

pythons007
12-23-2008, 11:00 PM
85-95 wins and here is why:

Mark, Gavin and John all win 18+ games
Bullpen is Solid
TCQ, Konerko, Dye and Thome put up typical seasons (30+ HR, 80+ RBI, ECT)
Richard wins 15 games, posts a low 4 ERA
The Kids CAN play, and do so very well

For you my friend, I would like to sell you a bag of magic beans! They will be able to solve all your problems and will only cost you a low low price of $100,000 annually.

whitesox901
12-23-2008, 11:04 PM
For you my friend, I would like to sell you a bag of magic beans! They will be able to solve all your problems and will only cost you a low low price of $100,000 annually.

In Life in general I'm the eternal pessimist, when it comes to White Sox Baseball I'm the the naive blind follower :)

soxfan21
12-24-2008, 12:03 AM
I think between 86-90. I think some of the young guts will surprise many people. I know this question asked how many wins with the present roster, but I also don't think kenny is done yet.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 12:24 AM
I think between 86-90. I think some of the young guts will surprise many people. I know this question asked how many wins with the present roster, but I also don't think kenny is done yet.

That makes no sense. You say you understand the question but you are taking into consideration possible changes ahead. I clearly asked you how many wins will the roster AS IS TODAY pick up.

From now on, guys, please don't make the mistake soxfan21 made.
Vote (the right way) or die!

http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/ul/28262-VoteOrDie.jpg
"Word..."

Cuck the Fubs
12-24-2008, 12:26 AM
Isn't a bit early for this one, Let Kenny finish his work then let's revisit this.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 12:46 AM
Isn't a bit early for this one, Let Kenny finish his work then let's revisit this.


wow. wow. wow. wow. wow.
reading isn't the strong point of many around here is it? ****ing guys!

MY FIRST POST STATES THE FOLLOWING, ill paraphrase:

i want to see how you guys feel about the team as it looks NOW and then hold another poll right before Opening Day to see how you feel about them then. i think most of us agree that this team, as it is TODAY, has the most holes we've seen our White Sox have in a while. so in a way, this is the weakest team we've had in a while. but we also expect a few changes to take place. so im polling you guys now, when we are at the lowest dip, and then ill poll you guys when Kenny's done making moves (other than those he'll make during the season) and compare the results. this will be a comparison of how successful you guys thought the team would be at their lowest point of the offseason compared to how successful you guys think the team will be going into the season.

wow....

whitesox901
12-24-2008, 12:54 AM
wow. wow. wow. wow. wow.
reading isn't the strong point of many around here is it? ****ing guys!

MY FIRST POST STATES THE FOLLOWING, ill paraphrase:

i want to see how you guys feel about the team as it looks NOW and then hold another poll right before Opening Day to see how you feel about them then. i think most of us agree that this team, as it is TODAY, has the most holes we've seen our White Sox have in a while. so in a way, this is the weakest team we've had in a while. but we also expect a few changes to take place. so im polling you guys now, when we are at the lowest dip, and then ill poll you guys when Kenny's done making moves (other than those he'll make during the season) and compare the results. this will be a comparison of how successful you guys thought the team would be at their lowest point of the offseason compared to how successful you guys think the team will be going into the season.

wow....

you cant win on this site

soxfan21
12-24-2008, 12:57 AM
That makes no sense. You say you understand the question but you are taking into consideration possible changes ahead. I clearly asked you how many wins will the roster AS IS TODAY pick up.

From now on, guys, please don't make the mistake soxfan21 made.
Vote (the right way) or die!

http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/ul/28262-VoteOrDie.jpg
"Word..."



I was just saying that with the current roster I think we will win between 86-90 games. I put that last sentance in there saying that I don't believe kenny is done yet. I understood the question that was asked and will either add or subtract wins in your next poll acording to what happens in the next few months. We just have to wait and see what happens, remember people it is only late December, the offseason is barely half over.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 12:58 AM
you cant win on this site

lol i know man. its unreal. but thats what i love about it. there will always be someone to argue anything. no matter how annoying it gets, it's fun lol.

"war is bad" ... 3 seconds later, "**** you pansy! war rules! wooo!!"
"peace > violence" ... here come the stat heads, "actually, according to bill james newest state, CRAP, violence is better suited for this planet than peace is" lol

whitesox901
12-24-2008, 12:59 AM
lol i know man. its unreal. but thats what i love about it. there will always be someone to argue anything. no matter how annoying it gets, it's fun lol.

So true :D:

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 12:59 AM
I was just saying that with the current roster I think we will win between 86-90 games. I put that last sentance in there saying that I don't believe kenny is done yet. I understood the question that was asked and will either add or subtract wins in your next poll acording to what happens in the next few months. We just have to wait and see what happens, remember people it is only late December, the offseason is barely half over.

oh wow, so with the current roster you see that many wins? im sorry for misunderstanding.

soxfan21
12-24-2008, 01:03 AM
oh wow, so with the current roster you see that many wins? im sorry for misunderstanding.


I'm not the only one predicting that, as of right now 9 other fans predict the same results.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 01:05 AM
I'm not the only one predicting that, as of right now 9 other fans predict the same results.

yeh i see that. love the optimism :)

BadBobbyJenks
12-24-2008, 01:12 AM
This kind of poll needs a this poll sucks option.

WhiteSox5187
12-24-2008, 02:11 AM
This kind of poll needs a this poll sucks option.
Why? So people can show how "clever" they think they are? If you don't like the poll or the thread don't post in it!

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 02:36 AM
This kind of poll needs a this poll sucks option.

:scratch:

Why? So people can show how "clever" they think they are? If you don't like the poll or the thread don't post in it!

:smile:


I'm glad to see for every moron, we have an intelligent poster.

BadBobbyJenks
12-24-2008, 03:01 AM
:scratch:



:smile:


I'm glad to see for every moron, we have an intelligent poster.


I am glad that every post you make has to get personal.

My reasoning is it is December and there is a ton of free agents still out there and trades to be made. Not that saying I think we are going to be super active, but really who cares how many wins you think we wil havel as presently constructed.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2008, 03:07 AM
I am glad that every post you make has to get personal.

My reasoning is it is December and there is a ton of free agents still out there and trades to be made. Not that saying I think we are going to be super active, but really who cares how many wins you think we will as presently constructed.

BBJ:

My reasoning is simple: I want to see how much you guys think the team will have improved from where it is today to where it will be right before Opening Day. For example, let us say that right now you think they'll win 82 games, so you vote now for "Between 81-85 Wins". Let us also say that between now and Opening Day, Kenny Williams goes out and acquires Ben Sheets and Orlando Hudson. When I conduct the next poll, you feel like they'll win 92 games and you vote for "Between 91-95 Wins". This will tell me that you think the team improved by 10 victories because of the moves/improvements the team made between now until Opening Day. But, going back to our example, if Kenny made no moves between now and Opening Day, you'll probably still feel like they're going to win 82 games, so you'll probably still vote for "Between 81-85 Wins". Then I'll be able to say "according to WSI, the White Sox showed no improvement from December 2008 to April 2009".

That's my reasoning.

And adding on: you're not the only one that thought what you thought so don't take that "moron" label so personally.

HomeFish
12-24-2008, 03:23 AM
I would say 75-80 wins. Perhaps closer to 80.

I think the Sox will start out pretty bad, but will fight back once they are all-but-eliminated and finish respectably around .500.

BleacherBandit
12-24-2008, 03:32 AM
Not very many wins....

Seriously, we need another right handed pitcher. I don't trust Contreras for another year of solid work, and Richard won't cut it just yet in my opinion for that spot.

I could deal with Getz or Nix trading off at second, but I cannot trust Fields for a whole damn year. That would be painful. He needs to improve on his fielding, and I don't care how he played two years ago, last year he was TERRIBLE. I don't know how you could convince thousands of fans that he will do a good job untill you actually have him start playing.

Also, I don't know how Owens and Anderson will pan out next year. I have a bias towards Owens's abilities, and the few at-bats he had this year made me nauseous. BA might surprise us though, but I'm highely skeptical.

However, I don't know if I can say anything about this anymore because Kenny obviously won't be done for a while (at least I hope).

DaveFeelsRight
12-24-2008, 05:27 AM
Not very many wins....

Seriously, we need another right handed pitcher. I don't trust Contreras for another year of solid work, and Richard won't cut it just yet in my opinion for that spot.

I could deal with Getz or Nix trading off at second, but I cannot trust Fields for a whole damn year. That would be painful. He needs to improve on his fielding, and I don't care how he played two years ago, last year he was TERRIBLE. I don't know how you could convince thousands of fans that he will do a good job untill you actually have him start playing.

Also, I don't know how Owens and Anderson will pan out next year. I have a bias towards Owens's abilities, and the few at-bats he had this year made me nauseous. BA might surprise us though, but I'm highely skeptical.

However, I don't know if I can say anything about this anymore because Kenny obviously won't be done for a while (at least I hope).hes out until atleast the all star break

wassagstdu
12-24-2008, 09:13 AM
I say just above .500, but I am already factoring in a lot of faith in KW's judgement on the question marks who are already on the roster.

areilly
12-24-2008, 09:53 AM
I'd put them around .500 based less on what I think the kids can do and more on the lack of improvements made elsewhere in the division. The Sox may be in an ugly position, but so is everyone else. . . except the damn Twins.

Rdy2PlayBall
12-24-2008, 10:10 AM
Whats with all the hate!? All we are doing is replacing Uribe, Cabrera and Swisher in the line up.... Uribe sucked along with Swisher in the batting category. And Cabrera wasn't a god either. I don't really think much has changed besides the fact were faster. It's not like losing Vazques (don't bother correcting spelling if needed) was a huge blow. I think the Sox look just as good in this roster as last year. :rolleyes: How can Owens and Fields possibly do any worse that Swisher and Urible? :?:

rdwj
12-24-2008, 10:16 AM
Seriously, If Owens is starting on a regular basis in CF, Ozzie needs a smack in the back of the head. Just because the guy is fast is no reason to start him.

jabrch
12-24-2008, 10:19 AM
I'm glad to see for every moron, we have an intelligent poster.


I think the Morons outpost the intelligent posters by a 10:1 ratio. I struggle to find much intelligence here in the offseason.

Hitmen77
12-24-2008, 10:28 AM
I voted between 81-85 wins. That actually might be on the high side IMO. As currently constructed, I see this team being around .500 at best.

"As currently constructed", we have huge holes in the 4th and 5th spot in our rotation. Maybe Clayton Richard will shine in '09, but I still expect ups and down from him and that still leaves a huge hole in the 5th spot. Having Fields (3b), Getz (2b), and Owens (cf) doesn't not sound like a playoff contending team to me.

We'll see what happens between now and opening day

Noneck
12-24-2008, 11:00 AM
I notice as of now that over 33% of voters think the Sox will have 86+ wins with this bunch of bananas currently assembled. If they some how get another pitcher or 2 and get some experience to fill a hole or 2 this could move up to 95+. The company men are speaking at the ballot box.

Iwritecode
12-24-2008, 11:07 AM
BBJ:

My reasoning is simple: I want to see how much you guys think the team will have improved from where it is today to where it will be right before Opening Day. For example, let us say that right now you think they'll win 82 games, so you vote now for "Between 81-85 Wins". Let us also say that between now and Opening Day, Kenny Williams goes out and acquires Ben Sheets and Orlando Hudson. When I conduct the next poll, you feel like they'll win 92 games and you vote for "Between 91-95 Wins". This will tell me that you think the team improved by 10 victories because of the moves/improvements the team made between now until Opening Day. But, going back to our example, if Kenny made no moves between now and Opening Day, you'll probably still feel like they're going to win 82 games, so you'll probably still vote for "Between 81-85 Wins". Then I'll be able to say "according to WSI, the White Sox showed no improvement from December 2008 to April 2009".

That's my reasoning.

And adding on: you're not the only one that thought what you thought so don't take that "moron" label so personally.

You should have made the poll so we could see who voted for what.

Bucky F. Dent
12-24-2008, 11:24 AM
81-85

The fourth SP position worries me as does the CF/leadoff situation.

WhiteSox5187
12-24-2008, 11:42 AM
Whats with all the hate!? All we are doing is replacing Uribe, Cabrera and Swisher in the line up.... Uribe sucked along with Swisher in the batting category. And Cabrera wasn't a god either. I don't really think much has changed besides the fact were faster. It's not like losing Vazques (don't bother correcting spelling if needed) was a huge blow. I think the Sox look just as good in this roster as last year. :rolleyes: How can Owens and Fields possibly do any worse that Swisher and Urible? :?:
It's not so much the line up that frightens me, it's the fact that right now we have three pitchers who can be counted on and a back end loaded with question marks and potentially holes. On top of this, the bullpen looked awful late last year and I don't think we can rely on Jenks, Linebrink and Dotel to go the whole season without each of them having at least one stint on the DL.

turners56
12-24-2008, 11:44 AM
This is a .500 team right now.

russ99
12-24-2008, 12:08 PM
85-95 wins and here is why:

Mark, Gavin and John all win 18+ games
Bullpen is Solid
TCQ, Konerko, Dye and Thome put up typical seasons (30+ HR, 80+ RBI, ECT)
Richard wins 15 games, posts a low 4 ERA
The Kids CAN play, and do so very well

Not that I take any stock in such things, but Bill James projects Mark, Gavin and John winning 12 each. But I think Danks will do better.

Bullpen is solid - I agree, if healthy.

TCQ drops off a bit, Thome surprises with a top-level season, Dye is his usual self, Konerko is dealt or benched.

If Richard wins 10 and stays under 4.50, I'll be shocked. I predict Poreda will be the big splash as rookie pitcher.

Kids are OK, but Lillibridge is the only one who puts in a full, consistently good season.

We just break .500.

Chicken Dinner
12-24-2008, 12:11 PM
The only highlight of this off season so far is DJ going to radio and Stoney coming in as the color guy.

champagne030
12-24-2008, 01:06 PM
The only highlight of this off season so far is DJ going to radio and Stoney coming in as the color guy.

:scratch:

We added by subtraction. We're so much better with Marquez in the rotation versus Javy. And those hacks at 3B? They gone and replaced with defensive wizards, Fields and Betemit.

DumpJerry
12-24-2008, 01:11 PM
162 wins until I see otherwise starting April 6, 2009.

decolores9628
12-24-2008, 01:33 PM
:scratch:

We added by subtraction. We're so much better with Marquez in the rotation versus Javy. And those hacks at 3B? They gone and replaced with defensive wizards, Fields and Betemit.


So much better!?

I didn't like Javy, but Marquez hasn't proven ANYTHING

WhiteSox5187
12-24-2008, 01:39 PM
So much better!?

I didn't like Javy, but Marquez hasn't proven ANYTHING
Agreed, Javy gave you 200 innings, 200 strike outs and about 13 wins. At times in the season he was nasty. Marquez has a hell of a lot of potential, but no track record at all.

Gammons Peter
12-24-2008, 01:44 PM
I'd say we are at about 75 wins right now, so Kenny has some work to do

btrain929
12-24-2008, 01:48 PM
:scratch:

We added by subtraction. We're so much better with Marquez in the rotation versus Javy. And those hacks at 3B? They gone and replaced with defensive wizards, Fields and Betemit.

So much better!?

I didn't like Javy, but Marquez hasn't proven ANYTHING

Agreed, Javy gave you 200 innings, 200 strike outs and about 13 wins. At times in the season he was nasty. Marquez has a hell of a lot of potential, but no track record at all.

Teal implied, people, calm yourselves.

LoveYourSuit
12-24-2008, 02:01 PM
The only highlight of this off season so far is DJ going to radio and Stoney coming in as the color guy.


Don't forget the new ramp being built on 35th street.

decolores9628
12-25-2008, 02:46 AM
Teal implied, people, calm yourselves.

Dang, never thought I would be one of these people, well played btrain:tongue:

btrain929
12-25-2008, 02:50 AM
Dang, never thought I would be one of these people, well played btrain:tongue:

http://www.thefunkstore.com/NewRelease/June2007/BOOK-LevertsIGotYourBack.jpg

spiffie
12-25-2008, 11:37 PM
This team won the AL Central despite losing Quentin, Crede, Contreras, and Konerko for extended periods last year.

Clayton Richard will be the AL Rookie of the Year. Jeff Marquez will step in and be a very solid #5.

For everyone complaining or speaking ill of the Sox, do please post your GM resumes, complete with how many World Series rings you have. If that number isn't more than KW has, please kindly shut the heck up.

I see why jabrch is so frustrated with you people all the time.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-26-2008, 12:05 AM
I think the Morons outpost the intelligent posters by a 10:1 ratio. I struggle to find much intelligence here in the offseason.

which group would you file me under? :redface:


You should have made the poll so we could see who voted for what.

we can do that? no way. how do i do this, sir?

btrain929
12-26-2008, 12:15 AM
I think the Morons outpost the intelligent posters by a 10:1 ratio. I struggle to find much intelligence here in the offseason.

You're right. All the fans holding considerable White Sox intelligence show up in remarkable numbers in the Game Threads during the year......:tongue:

doublem23
12-26-2008, 09:33 AM
I say 86-90 right now, because I assume we're taking our current "as is" roster against the "as is" roster of the rest of this division and none of them really scare me. Unless something drastic changes, a lot of the same from 2008 to 2009.

Sox are maddeningly inconsistent.
Best team in a mediocre division.
Win in upper 80s to win AL Central.
Ousted in ALDS by superior AL East team.
Rinse. Repeat.

spawn
12-26-2008, 09:47 AM
This team won the AL Central despite losing Quentin, Crede, Contreras, and Konerko for extended periods last year.

For everyone complaining or speaking ill of the Sox, do please post your GM resumes, complete with how many World Series rings you have. If that number isn't more than KW has, please kindly shut the heck up.

I see why jabrch is so frustrated with you people all the time.
:thumbsup:

Zisk77
12-26-2008, 10:36 AM
two hunnerd and tree wins and Ditka is flying the charter.

russ99
12-26-2008, 10:44 AM
Clayton Richard will be the AL Rookie of the Year.

He can't be ROY - he passed the 45 IP barrier.

And after watching him pitch last year, that statement would be a stretch even with a vivid imagination. Had you said Poreda or Marquez, that would have been much more viable...

jabrch
12-26-2008, 10:45 AM
You're right. All the fans holding considerable White Sox intelligence show up in remarkable numbers in the Game Threads during the year......:tongue:

I try and duck those too. That's where the real dumb dumbs show up. But at least during the season, when we are playing OK - good, there is better baseball talk. Right now, a lot of what is going around is mindless speculation, excessive posturing, and gross know-it-allisms. In season - at least there is new stuff to talk about. Right now, all people can talk about is what hasn't yet happened.

jabrch
12-26-2008, 10:47 AM
I say 86-90 right now, because I assume we're taking our current "as is" roster against the "as is" roster of the rest of this division and none of them really scare me. Unless something drastic changes, a lot of the same from 2008 to 2009.

Sox are maddeningly inconsistent.
Best team in a mediocre division.
Win in upper 80s to win AL Central.
Ousted in ALDS by superior AL East team.
Rinse. Repeat.

I'm in the same bucket as you. In fact, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

DumpJerry
12-26-2008, 12:02 PM
You should have made the poll so we could see who voted for what.

we can do that? no way. how do i do this, sir?
It's one of the options when you set up a poll.

SBSoxFan
12-26-2008, 01:19 PM
It's not so much the line up that frightens me, it's the fact that right now we have three pitchers who can be counted on and a back end loaded with question marks and potentially holes. On top of this, the bullpen looked awful late last year and I don't think we can rely on Jenks, Linebrink and Dotel to go the whole season without each of them having at least one stint on the DL.

So, you think all three of them will wind up on the DL next year? Why? Last year was the first time Jenks has been hurt since he came up, I think. In addition, his injury wasn't arm related. Linebrink seemed to get hurt because he was overworked. And I believe Dotel was healthy, albeit inconsistent, all year.

The bullpen goes as Jenks goes. Keep him healthy, and everything else falls into place.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-26-2008, 10:54 PM
I try and duck those too. That's where the real dumb dumbs show up. But at least during the season, when we are playing OK - good, there is better baseball talk. Right now, a lot of what is going around is mindless speculation, excessive posturing, and gross know-it-allisms. In season - at least there is new stuff to talk about. Right now, all people can talk about is what hasn't yet happened.

why you talking about my boy Craig like that?! :redneck


It's one of the options when you set up a poll.

thank you, kind sir.

DoItForDanPasqua
12-26-2008, 11:17 PM
I certainly didn't expect them to win the division last year, but I'm even less optimistic about 2009. They are counting on guys like Jerry Owens to play center, but they traded for a different center fielder who was way past his prime instead of giving him a chance last year. This should tell you what they really think about him.

The key to next year will be Danks, Floyd and Quentin. All three did much better than expected and I hope they can continue. They are going to have to repeat that performance while Josh Fields and at least one more player (maybe Brian Anderson, finally) is going to have to step up.

All told there are question marks at second, third, center and right, if Dye gets traded. This is in addition to the fourth and fifth spot in the rotation and the bullpen. That's a lot of holes to fill when you don't have much in the farm system and are not willing to sign free agents.

BadBobbyJenks
12-27-2008, 01:07 AM
This team won the AL Central despite losing Quentin, Crede, Contreras, and Konerko for extended periods last year.

Clayton Richard will be the AL Rookie of the Year. Jeff Marquez will step in and be a very solid #5.

For everyone complaining or speaking ill of the Sox, do please post your GM resumes, complete with how many World Series rings you have. If that number isn't more than KW has, please kindly shut the heck up.

I see why jabrch is so frustrated with you people all the time.


Shut down WSI because you can't discuss baseball unless you meet the qualifications Spiffie just laid out. Give me a break, might as well pull out the you never played the game what do you know card...

TornLabrum
12-27-2008, 01:20 AM
Shut down WSI because you can't discuss baseball unless you meet the qualifications Spiffie just laid out. Give me a break, might as well pull out the you never played the game what do you know card...

I don't think that's what Spiffie is saying at all. I interpret as saying, "Don't come off as a know-it-all unless you actually have some qualifications." Since no one who posts here actually does, I'd say that's good advice.

BadBobbyJenks
12-27-2008, 01:45 AM
I don't think that's what Spiffie is saying at all. I interpret as saying, "Don't come off as a know-it-all unless you actually have some qualifications." Since no one who posts here actually does, I'd say that's good advice.

If that is what you took out of "anyone speaking ill of the White Sox, post your resumes or shut the hell up"... Ok then

WhiteSoxFan84
12-27-2008, 02:14 AM
For everyone complaining or speaking ill of the Sox, do please post your GM resumes, complete with how many World Series rings you have. If that number isn't more than KW has, please kindly shut the heck up.

I don't think that's what Spiffie is saying at all. I interpret as saying, "Don't come off as a know-it-all unless you actually have some qualifications." Since no one who posts here actually does, I'd say that's good advice.

If that is what you took out of "anyone speaking ill of the White Sox, post your resumes or shut the hell up"... Ok then

hate to say it... but i agree with BBJ.
spiffie kind of said "if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all... unless you are or were a MLB GM". that's just stupid.

what has wsi turned into? iraq under the saddam regime? i lived the first 7 years of my life under that regime and let me tell ya... i don't remember much! but from what ive read, it wasn't fun. so let's not be thieves of joy around here. it's the offseason, stupid things will be said, meaningless polls will be conducted, and dumb accusations/predictions will be made.

WhiteSox1989
12-27-2008, 02:34 AM
I would rather wait and see. I don't like judging teams and making crazy prediction simply based off of what a piece of paper says.

Jerome
12-27-2008, 03:14 AM
somewhere between 75 and 100

DoItForDanPasqua
12-27-2008, 09:38 AM
I guessed around 80, but I'll probably be wrong again.

In 2005 they won 99 games, but before the season started I liked their starting pitching, but couldn't have thought they would win over 90.

In 2006, coming off the title I would have thought they would have won close to 100 games. They, of course, bombed in the second half and won 90.

The following year, I speculated that the 2007 team had some holes and would finish just over .500. They didn't really come close to that finishing with only 72 wins.

At the beginning of this past season, I had little optimism. Konerko and Thome were aging and I didn't expect the sort of season Dank and Floyd provided, and it wasn't clear that Alexei Ramirez would even make the team, let alone get any at bats. I would have said that they would win about 75 games, but they won 89.

TornLabrum
12-27-2008, 09:59 AM
If that is what you took out of "anyone speaking ill of the White Sox, post your resumes or shut the hell up"... Ok then

That's precisely what I got out of it. Resumes are summaries of ones experience. How many people here have more experience than Kenny Williams (and no, fantasy leagues don't count)? How many people posting here have experience equal to that of Kenny Williams? How many have any experience running a ball club?

Nope, just a bunch of know-it-alls.

TornLabrum
12-27-2008, 10:05 AM
hate to say it... but i agree with BBJ.
spiffie kind of said "if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all... unless you are or were a MLB GM". that's just stupid.

what has wsi turned into? iraq under the saddam regime? i lived the first 7 years of my life under that regime and let me tell ya... i don't remember much! but from what ive read, it wasn't fun. so let's not be thieves of joy around here. it's the offseason, stupid things will be said, meaningless polls will be conducted, and dumb accusations/predictions will be made.

I interpreted as saying, "None of you know what the hell you're talking about." In fact I'll include myself in that category since I've never run a major league ball club. There are people here who don't just second guess. They second guess over and over and over, and it's all the same second guess. They pound away at it until you just want them to shut up.

Comparing a web site to a dictatorial regime responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

BTW I picked 81-85 wins, primarily due to two holes in the starting pitching. It could be worse than that, but I'm an optimist when it comes to the management team of Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen. Some of my friends who have season tickets aren't so optimistic.

jabrch
12-27-2008, 10:14 AM
what has wsi turned into? iraq under the saddam regime?

You can't be serious...Iraq? The murders of innocent civilians? And WSI?

All people are asking is to discuss facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

Fact: We have holes/openings at 2B, 3B and CF
Opinion: We suck at 2B, 3B and CF and have no chance

Fact: We have two openings in the rotation and a bunch of guys who will compete to fill them. Of them, many have potential, but none are proven MLB starters.
Opinion: Our rotation sucks and we have no chance

Fact: 3-4-5 are older and don't run well
Opinion: We can't win with 3-4-5 as is

Don't you see the difference?

BadBobbyJenks
12-27-2008, 01:14 PM
That's precisely what I got out of it. Resumes are summaries of ones experience. How many people here have more experience than Kenny Williams (and no, fantasy leagues don't count)? How many people posting here have experience equal to that of Kenny Williams? How many have any experience running a ball club?

Nope, just a bunch of know-it-alls.

I understand what you are saying about the know-it-alls, but that quote just rubbed me the wrong way.

BadBobbyJenks
12-27-2008, 01:16 PM
You can't be serious...Iraq? The murders of innocent civilians? And WSI?

Fact: We have two openings in the rotation and a bunch of guys who will compete to fill them. Of them, many have potential, but none are proven MLB starters.
Opinion: Our rotation sucks and we have no chance



We have many guys who will compete for them. Yes that is a fact, but not a fact I am very happy to be going into the season with. Right now my opinion is the downfall of the team is going to be a hole in the 5th starter slot(I liked Richard there, but as the 4th starter I am not so thrilled)

SBSoxFan
12-27-2008, 09:28 PM
I interpreted as saying, "None of you know what the hell you're talking about." In fact I'll include myself in that category since I've never run a major league ball club. There are people here who don't just second guess. They second guess over and over and over, and it's all the same second guess. They pound away at it until you just want them to shut up.

I think we need to include with that the ability to judge baseball talent. I'll take the opinion of any GM and/or manager regarding the ability or potential of a player over anyone who posts here, regardless of how the poster came to that conclusion. While I personally believe Jerry Owens is better suited for LF, if Ken Williams and Ozzie Guillen think he can fit what the Sox need in a leadoff man and CF, then that's good enough for me.

Having said that, I love the Sox, always have, always will. So, you'll rarely see me question personnel decisions. I believe the management in place is more interested in winning than they are in feeding me/us a line.

guillensdisciple
12-28-2008, 01:14 AM
I guess you can put me under the "stupid" fan category if you wish, but I have blind faith in the White Sox going in to the season. Every year is either playoff or world series year for me, I understand this is very unrealistic, but I can't be with the White Sox. I show way too much emotion in this team to be realistic, I guess that is also the downside, since I am always expecting great things and they don't necessarily pan out, I blame myself for this.

That said, the realistic me expects 86- 90 wins next year, while the unrealistic and foolish me expects 90- 96 wins.

In Kenny I trust until the very bitter end!!!
LET'S GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!

whitesox901
12-28-2008, 01:23 AM
I guess you can put me under the "stupid" fan category if you wish, but I have blind faith in the White Sox going in to the season. Every year is either playoff or world series year for me, I understand this is very unrealistic, but I can't be with the White Sox. I show way too much emotion in this team to be realistic, I guess that is also the downside, since I am always expecting great things and they don't necessarily pan out, I blame myself for this.

That said, the realistic me expects 86- 90 wins next year, while the unrealistic and foolish me expects 90- 96 wins.

In Kenny I trust until the very bitter end!!!
LET'S GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!

Post of the year! :thumbsup: I feel that same way man.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-28-2008, 03:30 AM
In Kenny I trust until the very bitter end!!!

The bitter end being when he gets fired (not saying he should be or that he will be, but that's what will probably should happen if we fail in 2009 and don't improve in 2010) and that's when you'll point out all his mistakes? No. I'd rather we do that NOW. And either the "mistakes" we point out are legit mistakes or are not mistakes at all and we are just morons making mistakes ourselves (which is the case a lot more often than not).

WhiteSoxFan84
12-28-2008, 03:40 AM
Current (3:40AM CT, 12/28/08) poll results (173 votes):
Fewer Than 81 Wins 42 (24.28%)
Between 81-85 Wins 67 (38.73%)
Between 86-90 Wins 46 (26.59%)
Between 91-95 Wins 13 (7.51%)
More Than 95 Wins 5 (2.89%)

In the last 8 seasons, only once has the AL Central Division Title or AL Wild Card when to a team with less than 90 wins (our 2008 AL Central Division Champion* Chicago White Sox w/ 89 wins). This means that, at the moment, about 89.6% of you have the White Sox not making it to the postseason. I say "about" because some of you maybe thinking the Sox will win exactly 90 games and your vote was "Between 86-90 Wins".

guillensdisciple
12-28-2008, 04:20 AM
The bitter end being when he gets fired (not saying he should be or that he will be, but that's what will probably should happen if we fail in 2009 and don't improve in 2010) and that's when you'll point out all his mistakes? No. I'd rather we do that NOW. And either the "mistakes" we point out are legit mistakes or are not mistakes at all and we are just morons making mistakes ourselves (which is the case a lot more often than not).

I point out mistakes now, but what does it matter? You think Kenny Williams listens to what you say? You think he reads this before his sleep? The only people that can make any decisions work for the White Sox, you arguing just how bad the White Sox will be is almost fruitless. I choose to be hopeful and criticize things when I see them. I have seen way too many instances in both myself and others where making decisions prior to having things playing out didn't work out well.
For instance, all the people criticizing the trade of Carlos for Scott in 2005 are pretty mum about that deal. As fans, it is our right to do what we wish with our opinion, but blaming people and making rash decisions prior to seeing any on field results is absolutely ludicrous.
Sure I can assume that all the players that we are going to play aren't going to do well, but what happens if they do well? What are you going to do then? Are you going to find new venues to criticize? I don't mean to criticize you or anyone else on this forum, I just don't see why people need to doom and ask for someone's head based off of nothing.
I am also going to say this, unless you work for the White Sox organization or for any baseball organization and have any understanding of how the business part of baseball works, you can't say that this is wrong and this is right and that a certain team should do this because of this and that. Also, I don't see what we are losing by letting go of Swisher and Vazquez while receiving young talent. Weren't they the plague of the White Sox according to many White Sox fans on this board and around White Sox country? Isn't that the only thing we have done? We got rid of a disfunctional Swisher who sat on our bench for young talent, and got rid of a pressure opposed pitcher in Vazquez for some great talent as well. Hmmmmmmmm, two players that have let us down more then have helped us, for numerous players who might (obviously there is no guarantee, but youth is much better then aging crap) be beneficial in the very near future.

Finally Kenny Williams isn't a GM who will get fired in 2009 or 2010 even if the White Sox go 10- 314 in the next few seasons. From what I have seen in the Lions managerial tirades, any Gm, regardless of how well they do, can stick around for a while. Kenny has made moves that would make him a national hero if he was GM for the Yankees and the Red Sox. I would like to say that I have been spoiled by his ability to find unwanted talent and rejuvenating them with us.

Give me another GM who has done that recently?

So after all this, I choose to be optimistic. I refuse to make decisions or any criticism prior to seeing the product on the field. So until the White Sox season begins, pencil me in with White Sox for the win!

Shoeless
12-28-2008, 07:22 AM
Post of the year! :thumbsup: I feel that same way man.

Ditto. I can be realistic when I'm dead.

downstairs
12-29-2008, 12:49 PM
I don't think enough is known, but I don't see why anyone would assume the team is worse than last year. 88 wins, i say.

asindc
12-29-2008, 02:54 PM
I say 86-90 right now, because I assume we're taking our current "as is" roster against the "as is" roster of the rest of this division and none of them really scare me. Unless something drastic changes, a lot of the same from 2008 to 2009.

Sox are maddeningly inconsistent.
Best team in a mediocre division.
Win in upper 80s to win AL Central.
Ousted in ALDS by superior AL East team.
Rinse. Repeat.

I generally agree with your prognostication, but I will definitely take it and be relatively content if it does happen that way. Much better, after all, than leading the division for 5 months only to be caught at the end by the Twinkees (see 2003, 2004, and 2006 seasons).

Then there is the fact that our beloved Sox have never made the postseason two years in a row. I will glad to see that streak end, even if it means another first round playoff exit.

asindc
12-29-2008, 03:00 PM
You can't be serious...Iraq? The murders of innocent civilians? And WSI?

All people are asking is to discuss facts as facts and opinions as opinions.

Fact: We have holes/openings at 2B, 3B and CF
Opinion: We suck at 2B, 3B and CF and have no chance

Fact: We have two openings in the rotation and a bunch of guys who will compete to fill them. Of them, many have potential, but none are proven MLB starters.
Opinion: Our rotation sucks and we have no chance

Fact: 3-4-5 are older and don't run well
Opinion: We can't win with 3-4-5 as is

Don't you see the difference?

Well said. The distinction is lost on too many of our fellow Sox fans.