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thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 03:32 PM
8 years $170-180 million according to Heyman and Olney

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/35164-yankees-on-verge-of-signing-teixeira

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141

BadBobbyJenks
12-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Wow almost half a billion on 3 players.

PorkChopExpress
12-23-2008, 03:36 PM
I'll believe it when it is announced, but I hope it's true because I am sick of hearing about it. And if true, maybe that means other teams will start making more moves.

spawn
12-23-2008, 03:37 PM
Damnit Kenny, you let another one get away!!!

Boondock Saint
12-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Jesus, they just don't stop. Next offseason, they're going to be paying an entire teams salary just in luxury tax.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Luxury tax, schmuxury tax. The Yanks have gotten a ton better in the past month...

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 03:40 PM
Jesus, they just don't stop. Next offseason, they're going to be paying an entire teams salary just in luxury tax.

Luxury tax, schmuxury tax. The Yanks have gotten a ton better in the past month...

They did shed a bunch of payroll this offseason, too, so I don't know how much their payroll is going to go up.

That said, can anyone do the quick math on these three contracts [Sabathia, Burnett, Teixeira]? It's gotta be some obscene number.

Foulke You
12-23-2008, 03:40 PM
It certainly has been a Merry Christmas for Yankees fans.

Fenway
12-23-2008, 03:40 PM
Sean McAdam says Boston had more money on table but Boras wanted to stick it to John Henry after the owner sent his e-mail.

Looks like Manny going to NYY as well......

Could we see a 300M payroll?

Marqhead
12-23-2008, 03:40 PM
Sean McAdam says Boston had more money on table but Boras wanted to stick it to John Henry after the owner sent his e-mail.

Looks like Manny going to NYY as well......

Could we see a 300M payroll?

With no playoffs, that would be grand. :D:

whitesox901
12-23-2008, 03:40 PM
Damnit Kenny, you let another one get away!!!

:redneck

Dan Mega
12-23-2008, 03:46 PM
Now where did I leave that market correction...

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 03:48 PM
They did shed a bunch of payroll this offseason, too, so I don't know how much their payroll is going to go up.

That said, can anyone do the quick math on these three contracts [Sabathia, Burnett, Teixeira]? It's gotta be some obscene number.

To answer my own question, that's $413+ million. :o:

btrain929
12-23-2008, 03:49 PM
They did shed a bunch of payroll this offseason, too, so I don't know how much their payroll is going to go up.

That said, can anyone do the quick math on these three contracts [Sabathia, Burnett, Teixeira]? It's gotta be some obscene number.

CC: 7/161 or 23/yr
AJ: 5/82.5 or 16.5/yr
Tex: 8/170+ (approx) or 22/yr

So, to this year's payroll, they've added around 60MIL. I heard somewhere they shed about 85MIL from last year. I think these deals will look great for at least 2 years. The real ? marks will come 4-5 years from now...

Dibbs
12-23-2008, 03:50 PM
I think I am back to hating the Yankees more than the Red Sox. Seriously, Teixeira is not THAT good.

Dick Allen
12-23-2008, 03:54 PM
**** the Yankees. And the Red Sox. And ESPNY. Hell, **** baseball.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 03:54 PM
Another crazy aspect of this, that we hardly ever see, is the Type A pick distribution to other teams. The Yanks have signed 3 Type A FA's. Tex was the highest ranked Type A of the 3, so the Angels will get the Yanks 1st rd pick + a compensation pick, the Brewers will receive the Yanks 2nd rd pick + a compensation pick, and the Jays will receive the Yanks 3rd rd pick + a compensation pick. The Yanks won't have a draft pick until the 4th round. But that is brutal luck for the Jays....

sox102
12-23-2008, 03:54 PM
I think I am back to hating the Yankees more than the Red Sox.

I agree. But it will be sweet to see them not make the playoffs again.

SoxGirl4Life
12-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Manny too? Hilarious!

Jim Shorts
12-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Just think what Pujols will command when he's up for FA

And for my money, Tex can't hold Pujols jock.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 03:57 PM
Just think what Pujols will command when he's up for FA

And for my money, Tex can't hold Pujols jock .

I think that would apply to anyone.

guillensdisciple
12-23-2008, 04:01 PM
I can't respect the Yankees, it is great that they have money, but there is no organizational depth. They just buy whoever they want, the only player on that team that I could truly respect, because he came from the Yankees organization, is Derek Jeter.

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 04:03 PM
Another crazy aspect of this, that we hardly ever see, is the Type A pick distribution to other teams. The Yanks have signed 3 Type A FA's. Tex was the highest ranked Type A of the 3, so the Angels will get the Yanks 1st rd pick + a compensation pick, the Brewers will receive the Yanks 2nd rd pick + a compensation pick, and the Jays will receive the Yanks 3rd rd pick + a compensation pick. The Yanks won't have a draft pick until the 4th round. But that is brutal luck for the Jays....

I'm surprised Teixiera is a higher ranked FA than CC.

So much for Swisher getting any playing time, unless it's in CF.

BadBobbyJenks
12-23-2008, 04:03 PM
When you think about it though, their payroll has not gone up from last year.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:04 PM
I can't respect the Yankees, it is great that they have money, but there is no organizational depth. They just buy whoever they want, the only player on that team that I could truly respect, because he came from the Yankees organization, is Derek Jeter.

I can't ****ing stand Jeter. A-Rod at least is among the best players at his position to get a $275 mil deal, Jeter at $181 mil I don't get it, he's a defensively mediocre SS who hits for average.

Respect on the Yankees to me goes to Mariano Rivera.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 04:04 PM
I can't respect the Yankees, it is great that they have money, but there is no organizational depth. They just buy whoever they want, the only player on that team that I could truly respect, because he came from the Yankees organization, is Derek Jeter.

Well if you have a stud player locked up at a position for 5-8 years, organizational depth isn't a big concern.

SoxGirl4Life
12-23-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm surprised Teixiera is a higher ranked FA than CC.

So much for Swisher getting any playing time, unless it's in CF.


Yikes, that's right. And Swisher thought he had a hard time getting in at 1st behind Konerko--sheesh

beasly213
12-23-2008, 04:08 PM
I think we all remember what happened the last time the Yankees spent a ton of money on a power hitting first baseman....

btrain929
12-23-2008, 04:08 PM
I'm surprised Teixiera is a higher ranked FA than CC.

So much for Swisher getting any playing time, unless it's in CF.

I was too. Texeira was rated at a 98.8, and CC was ranked at a 98.1 on the Elias scale.

Foulke You
12-23-2008, 04:08 PM
I can't ****ing stand Jeter. A-Rod at least is among the best players at his position to get a $275 mil deal, Jeter at $181 mil I don't get it, he's a defensively mediocre SS who hits for average.

Respect on the Yankees to me goes to Mariano Rivera.
Couldn't have said it better.

Jim Shorts
12-23-2008, 04:11 PM
When you think about it though, their payroll has not gone up from last year.

While true, the length and backweighted contracts are irresponsible (to borrow from JR/KW)

turners56
12-23-2008, 04:12 PM
The AL East makes me mad. :angry:

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:18 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't even think the Yankees have gotten that much better this offseason.

CC won't pitch better than Mussina last season. Burnett will be decent, but his ERA probably will be around 4.

Teixeira is an obvious significant upgrade defensively, but I don't see him as a huge improvement offensively over Giambi. And with Abreu likely gone, A-Rod and Teixeira are their only real power hitters.

veeter
12-23-2008, 04:18 PM
Yeah, they'll probably sign Manny too. What are you gonna do. They were on a mission to open the new stadium in grand style. Obviously the Yankee mystique is alive and well to get all those guys to come on board. **** those pricks. Go Rays.

BadBobbyJenks
12-23-2008, 04:19 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't even think the Yankees have gotten that much better this offseason.

CC won't pitch better than Mussina last season. Burnett will be decent, but his ERA probably will be around 4.

Teixeira is an obvious significant upgrade defensively, but I don't see him as a huge improvement offensively over Giambi. And with Abreu likely gone, A-Rod and Teixeira are their only real power hitters.

Ok, Crazy.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 04:23 PM
Call me crazy, but I don't even think the Yankees have gotten that much better this offseason.

CC won't pitch better than Mussina last season. Burnett will be decent, but his ERA probably will be around 4.

Teixeira is an obvious significant upgrade defensively, but I don't see him as a huge improvement offensively over Giambi. And with Abreu likely gone, A-Rod and Teixeira are their only real power hitters.

Tex is going to blow away the numbers of .240/.370.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:23 PM
Ok, Crazy.

How so?

Moose was 20-9 with a 3.37 ERA last year. You think Sabathia will be better than that in his return to the AL?

Giambi last year had an .875 OPS for the Yankees. Teixeira's career OPS is .919.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:26 PM
Tex is going to blow away the numbers of .240/.370.

Right, but I said I don't think he'll be a huge improvement over Giambi. Giambi hit 32 HRs, knocked in 96 RBI, and put an .875 OPS last season. Teixeira will be better than that, but I don't he'll be A LOT better.

PaleHoser
12-23-2008, 04:26 PM
I HOPE THE YANKEES GO BROKE! :angry:

btrain929
12-23-2008, 04:31 PM
Right, but I said I don't think he'll be a huge improvement over Giambi. Giambi hit 32 HRs, knocked in 96 RBI, and put an .875 OPS last season. Teixeira will be better than that, but I don't he'll be A LOT better.

Use whichever word you want: huge, clear, definite. He'll be an improvement over Giambi offensively. Plus he's an ABSOLUTE upgrade defensively. Combine that with the fact Teixeira is 28 and is at the point of his career where he will either maintain or improve on his already impressive career numbers, and this is a clear upgrade.

And if you consider that the last 2 years, Giambi has made 23.5MIL a year, the Yanks will be paying the same amount of money to a young player that is a better defender and better hitter.

So, what's the dispute here, again?

SoxNation05
12-23-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm surprised Teixiera is a higher ranked FA than CC.

So much for Swisher getting any playing time, unless it's in CF.
When you play like a bench player, you should be on the bench. I love the guy but he has to get his **** together.

Tekijawa
12-23-2008, 04:35 PM
The Steinbrenner Boys got the keys from dad and there is no stopping them now!

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:36 PM
Use whichever word you want: huge, clear, definite. He'll be an improvement over Giambi offensively. Plus he's an ABSOLUTE upgrade defensively. Combine that with the fact Teixeira is 28 and is at the point of his career where he will either maintain or improve on his already impressive career numbers, and this is a clear upgrade.

And if you consider that the last 2 years, Giambi has made 23.5MIL a year, the Yanks will be paying the same amount of money to a young player that is a better defender and better hitter.

So, what's the dispute here, again?

My main point was that as of right now, I don't see the Yankees as a MUCH better team than they were last year, despite the $400+ million in signings.

Who knows if they get Manny, though. Or sign another starter.

PorkChopExpress
12-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Use whichever word you want: huge, clear, definite. He'll be an improvement over Giambi offensively. Plus he's an ABSOLUTE upgrade defensively. Combine that with the fact Teixeira is 28 and is at the point of his career where he will either maintain or improve on his already impressive career numbers, and this is a clear upgrade.

And if you consider that the last 2 years, Giambi has made 23.5MIL a year, the Yanks will be paying the same amount of money to a young player that is a better defender and better hitter.

So, what's the dispute here, again?
The dispute was whether the Yankees greatly improved their team from last year to this year. Age and money were not part of it. The original poster said Tex would be an upgrade over Giambi, but not a huge one (just in reference to what Giambi did last year as opposed to what Tex may do this year), and that CC will not be better this year than Mosse was last year, and hence he did not see that the Yankees have drastically improved from last year's team.

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 04:42 PM
My main point was that as of right now, I don't see the Yankees as a MUCH better team than they were last year, despite the $400+ million in signings.

Who knows if they get Manny, though. Or sign another starter.

They signed Burnett, as well. Wang is coming back and possibly Pettite. The rotation as of now is very strong:

CC
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Pettite/Hughes/Kennedy

Add Texieria, with Posada and Matsui coming back from injury. Any bounce back from Cano/Melky/Swisher as an added bonus.

How can you say you don't think they'll be better? :scratch:

ChiSoxFan81
12-23-2008, 04:50 PM
Dear Yankees,


Go **** yourself.


Sincerely,

True baseball fans everywhere

Hokiesox
12-23-2008, 04:50 PM
I HOPE THE YANKEES GO BROKE! :angry:

If the economic downturn lasts to 2010 (which nobody hopes for even if it meant the Yankees would go broke), you may very well see them go broke around 2015. I can't figure their financing out. Aren't most of their luxury boxes owned by the very financial sector businesses that are in complete meltdown? They're not going to be able to pay obscene amounts for a luxury box at Yankee stadium if they have to use Federal bailout money. I cannot figure out the Yankee financing. Everyone else in the world is realizing money doesn't grow on trees anymore except them.

On a side note, I was in Radio Shack over the weekend wearing my Sox hat, while some tool in a Pats hat started talking to me about how Tex should go to Boston, and did I think Lowe would go to NY or Boston, and what did I think of Ozzie, and wouldn't he suck if he managed in NY or Boston. To which I responded, "I don't know where Tex is going, I don't care about Lowe either. There are 28 other teams."

I can't stand their fans too. Both teams.

Risk
12-23-2008, 04:54 PM
I'm wondering whether the Yankees will have to resort to paying their players with internet money?

God I hate the Yankees.

Risk

Paulwny
12-23-2008, 04:56 PM
The Steinbrenner Boys got the keys from dad and there is no stopping them now!


They learned from the Master, when FA's are available, spend, spend, spend.

Fenway
12-23-2008, 04:56 PM
I knew it would play out like this.

Cashman was in the catbird seat knowing that if he couldn't sign Tex he had a Plan B that Theo didn't (Manny)

I would love to really know what happened between John Henry and Boras last week to set the Boston owner off.

The Yankees have reloaded...Boston is stuck. However there is no reason to think the Rays are going away.

Tragg
12-23-2008, 04:57 PM
I can't figure their financing out.
Broadcast rights. That's the difference between them and everyone else, really.
If MLB told me that I could have an expansion franchise and put it anywhere I wanted, I would pick Brooklyn. NY can support 3 baseball teams.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:57 PM
They signed Burnett, as well. Wang is coming back and possibly Pettite. The rotation as of now is very strong:

CC
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Pettite/Hughes/Kennedy

Add Texieria, with Posada and Matsui coming back from injury. Any bounce back from Cano/Melky/Swisher as an added bonus.

How can you say you don't think they'll be better? :scratch:

Pettite for sure is coming back?

My thinking was
CC replaces Moose
Burnett replaces Pettite/whomever
Teixeira replaces Giambi

They each slot in over their replacement; each better, each younger, but in no case drastically so [although Teixeira is a big improvement overall on Giambi, he isn't a superstar].

As of right now, I'd still pick them behind Tampa & Boston.

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 04:58 PM
I knew it would play out like this.

Cashman was in the catbird seat knowing that if he couldn't sign Tex he had a Plan B that Theo didn't (Manny)

I would love to really know what happened between John Henry and Boras last week to set the Boston owner off.

The Yankees have reloaded...Boston is stuck. However there is no reason to think the Rays are going away.

I have to chuckle a bit at the Red Sox, Fens. I went over to a couple of their message boards to gage their reaction.(I clearly have nothing to do at work today) They are all up in arms about how unfair it is that the Yankees spend so much money. :rolleyes:

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 04:59 PM
I knew it would play out like this.

Cashman was in the catbird seat knowing that if he couldn't sign Tex he had a Plan B that Theo didn't (Manny)

I would love to really know what happened between John Henry and Boras last week to set the Boston owner off.

The Yankees have reloaded...Boston is stuck. However there is no reason to think the Rays are going away.

Yankees still going after Manny? They do need someone to replace Abreu.

Fenway
12-23-2008, 05:01 PM
I'm wondering whether the Yankees will have to resort to paying their players with internet money?

God I hate the Yankees.

Risk

Meanwhile the Yankees have asked the City of New York for a 400M loan to finish the new stadium which is now estimated to coast $1.8 BILLION. That is twice what the Mets are paying for Citi Field.

SoxNation05
12-23-2008, 05:02 PM
C Whoever <<<<< Navarro
1B Teixeira >>>Pena
2B Cano >>Iwamura
3B A-Rod>> Longoria
SS Jeter >> Bartlett
LF Nady<<< Crawford
CF Damon(?) <<< Upton
RF Swisher >> Gabe Gross

Sabathia>>>>> Kazmir
Burnett << Shields
Wang > Garza
Chamberlain >> Sonnastine
Pettite < Price

Lineups=Even
Rotation= Yankees +5

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Pettite for sure is coming back?

My thinking was
CC replaces Moose
Burnett replaces Pettite/whomever
Teixeira replaces Giambi

They each slot in over their replacement; each better, each younger, but in no case drastically so [although Teixeira is a big improvement overall on Giambi, he isn't a superstar].

As of right now, I'd still pick them behind Tampa & Boston.

Nothing certain on Pettite.

That's exactly it though, they have improved with every move. Even if it's marginal, they've improved. They are also getting some big players back that were lost to injury, and they still managed to win 89 games. This team could be a force next year. Hopefully, as has happened this decade with the evil empire, things don't play out as well as they do on paper, with their fantasy baseball type approach.

Hokiesox
12-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Broadcast rights. That's the difference between them and everyone else, really.
If MLB told me that I could have an expansion franchise and put it anywhere I wanted, I would pick Brooklyn. NY can support 3 baseball teams.

But there again, companies are slashing advertising costs. I don't understand any of it really, but the financial meltdown HAS to affect the Yankees at some point. I would have thought it would screw them more than any other team, given their proximity to the problem.

Trying to not get political, but if the companies are using Federal $$$ to pay for anything related to the Yankees, you can bet somebody will find out eventually. It's not going to be pretty. Then again, I don't know which companies rent luxury boxes at Yankee stadium.

Broadcasts right or not, it's going to catch up to them at some point.

102605
12-23-2008, 05:06 PM
MLB needs a salary cap. This has gotten out of hand.

jabrch
12-23-2008, 05:06 PM
I can't respect the Yankees, it is great that they have money, but there is no organizational depth. They just buy whoever they want, the only player on that team that I could truly respect, because he came from the Yankees organization, is Derek Jeter.


So the only Sox staters you truly repsect are Buehrle and BA?

There are lots of reasons to dislike the Yanks - but not having their own players on their team isn't the big one. They have used their farm to make deals. They have given up draft picks as compensation for FA. And they still have a decent farm with guys like Chamberlain and Hughes up now, and guys like Jackson, Montero, Romine, Betances and Brackman in the future plans.

Despite signing 3 Type A FAs, the Yanks will still have a #1 and a #2 pick next year - compensation for guys they drafted who they didn't sign.

I don't hate the Yanks. I hate the rules that allow the Yanks to do what they do. The luxury tax is a joke. There is no parity in baseball, nor is there equity.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:07 PM
Nothing certain on Pettite.

That's exactly it though, they have improved with every move. Even if it's marginal, they've improved. They are also getting some big players back that were lost to injury, and they still managed to win 89 games. This team could be a force next year. Hopefully, as has happened this decade with the evil empire, things don't play out as well as they do on paper, with their fantasy baseball type approach.

C Whoever <<<<< Navarro
1B Teixeira >>>Pena
2B Cano >>Iwamura
3B A-Rod>> Longoria
SS Jeter >> Bartlett
LF Nady<<< Crawford
CF Damon(?) <<< Upton
RF Swisher >> Gabe Gross

Sabathia>>>>> Kazmir
Burnett << Shields
Wang > Garza
Chamberlain >> Sonnastine
Pettite < Price

Lineups=Even
Rotation= Yankees +5

Nady over Crawford? Damon over Upton? Also, I expect Matsui at DH, Damon in LF, Melky in CF, Nady in RF, and Swisher on the shiny, brand spankin' new bench.

Sabathia over Kazmir, Wang over Garza, and Pettite over Price I would all disagree with, too.

That, and you can't really compare teams top to bottom on paper like that.

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 05:14 PM
Nady over Crawford? Damon over Upton? Also, I expect Matsui at DH, Damon in LF, Melky in CF, Nady in RF, and Swisher on the shiny, brand spankin' new bench.

Sabathia over Kazmir, Wang over Garza, and Pettite over Price I would all disagree with, too.

That, and you can't really compare teams top to bottom on paper like that.

If you think Kazmir is a better pitcher than CC, I am just going to bow out of this discussion. :o:

DeadMoney
12-23-2008, 05:15 PM
Sabathia>>>>> Kazmir
Burnett << Shields
Wang > Garza
Chamberlain >> Sonnastine
Pettite < Price

Rotation= Yankees +5

That's completely unfair to Kazmir. Last year the Rays were 19-8 in his 27 starts. Sabathia was 22-13 in his 35 starts with 2 teams last year.

Since a SP can only go once every five days, giving Sabathia that much of an advantage is ridiculous.

Not to mention that although it's fun to compare teams position-by-position, there's that old saying, "that's why they play the games." Just ask the 2008 Detroit Tigers.

And that's how I really feel about this (and the other two) signings by the Yankees. Show me how it's done on the field, and that the money was worth it, and I'll applaud them for these moves ... but until then, it only looks good on paper.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:16 PM
If you think Kazmir is a better pitcher than CC, I am just going to bow out of this discussion. :o:

Their ERA is about the same in the AL. Difference being CC is more durable.

BleacherBandit
12-23-2008, 05:19 PM
Poor Swish is going to be relugated to the outfield again. Too bad, because he's a better fielder if you ask me.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 05:20 PM
Nady over Crawford? Damon over Upton? Also, I expect Matsui at DH, Damon in LF, Melky in CF, Nady in RF, and Swisher on the shiny, brand spankin' new bench.

Sabathia over Kazmir, Wang over Garza, and Pettite over Price I would all disagree with, too.

That, and you can't really compare teams top to bottom on paper like that.

You didn't do too well in math class, did you? In your above wrongings, he indeed said that Crawford, Upton, and Price were better than the Yankee counterparts.

My knowledge of the > is > than your understanding of the >.

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 05:21 PM
Their ERA is about the same in the AL. Difference being CC is more durable.

If that's all you use to measure a pitcher, than OK.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:27 PM
You didn't do too well in math class, did you? In your above wrongings, he indeed said that Crawford, Upton, and Price were better than the Yankee counterparts.

My knowledge of the > is > than your understanding of the >.

Reading is FUNdamental. :tongue:

Fenway
12-23-2008, 05:28 PM
I have to chuckle a bit at the Red Sox, Fens. I went over to a couple of their message boards to gage their reaction.(I clearly have nothing to do at work today) They are all up in arms about how unfair it is that the Yankees spend so much money. :rolleyes:

The Red Sox believe it or not have a budget. Payroll is pretty much equal to ticket revenue and Boston did not raise prices for 2009. They understand the economy just can't handle higher prices.

They were under the cap last year (only NYY and Murder City went over) and they have produced cheap home grown talent.

YES is a monster revenue stream as the network collects $2.90 a month for every basic cable and dish subscriber in New York STATE, two-thirds of New Jersey, most of Connecticut and northeast Pennsylvania (Scranton) No team even comes close to matching that.

The irony is that Eddie Einhorn figured this out almost 30 years ago but was ahead of his time. JR could not stomach the losses absorbed by Sportsvision and sold it to Dolan for about 99 cents.
Had JR held on the White Sox would be #3 in broadcast revenue today.

The Red Sox and Bruins lost millions when NESN started in 1984 but never sold out and today they are #3 in broadcast revenue after NYY and the Mets.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:28 PM
If that's all you use to measure a pitcher, than OK.

What do you use?

SoxNation05
12-23-2008, 05:29 PM
If someone wants to tell me Scott Kazmir (who can't stay on the field) is better than CC Sabathia you must be talking about something other than baseball. CC is more durable, his stats are better and he is a team player.

He threw how many complete games for the Brew Crew?

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:32 PM
If someone wants to tell me Scott Kazmir (who can't stay on the field) is better than CC Sabathia you must be talking about something other than baseball. CC is more durable, his stats are better and he is a team player.

He threw how many complete games for the Brew Crew?

If he can stay healthy, Kazmir to me is clearly the better pitcher.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 05:32 PM
If someone wants to tell me Scott Kazmir (who can't stay on the field) is better than CC Sabathia you must be talking about something other than baseball. CC is more durable, his stats are better and he is a team player.

He threw how many complete games for the Brew Crew?

Gotta be flippy-cup. CC's fat hands just keep knocking the cup off the damn table.

SoxNation05
12-23-2008, 05:33 PM
Nady over Crawford? Damon over Upton? Also, I expect Matsui at DH, Damon in LF, Melky in CF, Nady in RF, and Swisher on the shiny, brand spankin' new bench.

Sabathia over Kazmir, Wang over Garza, and Pettite over Price I would all disagree with, too.

That, and you can't really compare teams top to bottom on paper like that.
Nady has had one successful full season. Crawford is a coveted player.

Upton has boatloads of talent and will break out soon.

Wang and Garza is debateable, Pettite and Price for 2008 is but Price is the number 1 prospect in baseball. AHEAD of Matt Wieters who is going to rewrite the record books for all catchers.

I will not respond to CC and Kazmir. You have ZERO baseball knowledge if you would take Kazmir over CC.

thedudeabides
12-23-2008, 05:36 PM
What do you use?

I don't really want to hijack this thread, but durability is a huge factor. More starts, MANY more innings, better whip, less walks, less homeruns, more k's. The only thing comparable is their ERA's. If you would rather have Kazmir, that's fine. I'm just going to completely disagree. And I am speculating, but I would believe that 32 GM's would agree with me.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:36 PM
Nady has had one successful full season. Crawford is a coveted player.

Upton has boatloads of talent and will break out soon.

Wang and Garza is debateable, Pettite and Price for 2008 is but Price is the number 1 prospect in baseball. AHEAD of Matt Wieters who is going to rewrite the record books for all catchers.

I will not respond to CC and Kazmir. You have ZERO baseball knowledge if you would take Kazmir over CC.

I just don't know if signing CC to that long of a deal is the wisest move. I see him going downhill a la Bartolo Colon. I think Kazmir has a stronger future ahead of him right now. Thus, I would take Kazmir over Sabathia.

SoxNation05
12-23-2008, 05:37 PM
If he can stay healthy, Kazmir to me is clearly the better pitcher.
Wow, that is a HORRIBLE arguement. He can only throw 6-7 innings when he is at his healthiest point.

SoxNation05
12-23-2008, 05:37 PM
I just don't know if signing CC to that long of a deal is the wisest move. I see him going downhill a la Bartolo Colon. I think Kazmir has a stronger future ahead of him right now. Thus, I would take Kazmir over Sabathia.
Just because Colon and Sabathia are both fat doesn't mean they are comparable.

Paulwny
12-23-2008, 05:45 PM
YES is a monster revenue stream as the network collects $2.90 a month for every basic cable and dish subscriber in New York STATE, two-thirds of New Jersey, most of Connecticut and northeast Pennsylvania (Scranton) No team even comes close to matching that.


EVERY is the key word, subscribers have no choice they have to accept the YES Net as part of their basic cable plan.

cards press box
12-23-2008, 05:46 PM
Once again, the Yanks are inebriate seafarers. Great. The New York AL franchise is and continues to be bad for the game.

twsoxfan5
12-23-2008, 05:48 PM
MLB needs a salary cap. This has gotten out of hand.

I couldn't agree more. I am really starting to dislike the MLB.

DSpivack
12-23-2008, 05:52 PM
I couldn't agree more. I am really starting to dislike the MLB.

I'll laugh until they actually win one of these years.

Then again, is this really any different than the way the Yankees have always operated? In the 50s didn't they use the A's as their own personal farm club?

FedEx227
12-23-2008, 06:18 PM
Ugh. Really starting to lose faith in the way the MLB does business. This is getting to ridiculous levels now. It's laughable. No other team can compete with the amount of money the Yankees have.

cards press box
12-23-2008, 06:18 PM
I'll laugh until they actually win one of these years.

Then again, is this really any different than the way the Yankees have always operated? In the 50s didn't they use the A's as their own personal farm club?

Yes, that is true and that is why, to quote Jim Piersall, so many of us came out of the cradle hating the blasted Yankees. Here's another low trick of the Yanks: prior to 1965, there was no amateur draft. The Yanks used their financial clout to sign as many prospects as they could and, ultimately, had minor league clubs like the powerhouse Yankee Triple A team in K.C. in the '30's that were better than many struggling major league clubs. Fortunately, the amateur draft in 1965 put a stop to that nonsense and , until the dawn of free agency, left the Yanks as just another club in the MLB. Interstingly, in that time period (from the institution of the amateur draft in 1965 to the beginnings of free agency in 1976), the Yanks did not win squat and spent much of that time in the second division.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 06:30 PM
Ugh. Really starting to lose faith in the way the MLB does business. This is getting to ridiculous levels now. It's laughable. No other team can compete with the amount of money the Yankees have.

Teams have been doing it for about a decade now....

twentywontowin
12-23-2008, 06:35 PM
I couldn't agree more. I am really starting to dislike the MLB.

No salary cap needed. They've spent over $1 billion in payroll this decade and have one World Series to show for it. Meanwhile, teams like the Marlins remain competitive with a $35 million payroll.

Fenway
12-23-2008, 06:36 PM
EVERY is the key word, subscribers have no choice they have to accept the YES Net as part of their basic cable plan.

The good citizens of Buffalo get the Yankees rammed down their throats on both cable and WGR radio even though there 4 teams closer to WNY (Pirates, Indians, Tigers and Blue Jays) This should not happen but MLB allows it.

However the end of the golden goose maybe on the horizon.

The FCC is strongly considering to allow al-la-carte cable pricing similar to what exists in Canada. A consumer could cherry pick the chanels they want. It is estimated that 70 percent of households would drop ESPN if they could as the Disney channels represent a good portion of basic cable bills.

When NESN was a pay channel like HBO it was priced at $9.99 a month or $15 if combined with Sportschannel (now CSN New England) and they captured about 20 percent of households. Now every cable-dish household in 5 states and 80 percent of Connecticut pay for it. But that number is still only about what YES has because of that little village along the East River.

IF al-la-carte pricing happens every sport will take a huge hit because cable money will vanish. That is the only thing that will stop the Yankees.

FedEx227
12-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Teams have been doing it for about a decade now....

I'm not talking purely in a competitive stance, but the fact that other teams will not have the money to compete with the Yankees in a free agent market. With a new stadium, a billion dollar network anytime they want a free agent, they'll get them.

We thought the Yankees were bad before, it's going to get MUCH worse.

Yeah, teams will be able to compete on the field by making sound baseball decisions, but the long term effects of the Yankees completely blowing other teams out of the water financially is not healthy for baseball.

WhiteSox1989
12-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Ridiculous.

WhiteSox1989
12-23-2008, 06:40 PM
This signing is stupid, as was the Sabathia one.

BadBobbyJenks
12-23-2008, 06:45 PM
Again they are just using the money coming off last years books anyway. Nothing has changed one bit.

HYPERBOLE! BASEBALL IS IN CRISIS! YANKEES ARE RUINING AMERICA!

Lip Man 1
12-23-2008, 07:03 PM
This and that (in no particular order...)

1. The Yankees are doing wants their ownership wants and what their fans demand.

2. The Yankees have advantages other teams do not have HOWEVER (and this is important) they weren't always that way AND (again important) they worked to increase the value and worth of their franchise to the N.Y. market (which like Chicago has two teams.)

Here's what I mean historically. In the mid-1960's the Yankees were a joke. Even though they were in the biggest market in the country they were awful. Even after George Steinbrenner bought the team from CBS and won 3 A.L. pennants and 2 World Series from 76-78, they backslid.

By the late 1980's / early 1990's (and I have the video to prove it) the Yankees weren't drawing squat. Steinbrenner was openly talking about moving the team to N.J. because he felt the area the stadium was in was "unsafe" and that was why fans were staying away. The Yankees also weren't winning.

Like I said I have video of the Sox in N.Y. in great weather in 1990 for example, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE... not a single solitary fan sitting in the lower left and right field seats. NONE!

What changed? Simple. Steinbrenner rolled the dice one last time in the mid 90's and they won...and won...and won some more. Fans returned (despite the "neighborhood") which increased revenue, which they spent on MORE top players, which increased the value of their advertising, and their radio and TV deals and so forth.

Had the Yankees "retrenched" for example and not spent money to remake the club (and subsequently won all those World Series) they never would have been in the position they are in today. Absolutely zero chance.

3. What I find really ironic is that before the Sox won the World Series in 2005 and then shortly afterwards, Kenny was quoted openly and numerous times, directly, as talking about how he basically wanted to copy the "Yankee" formula.

Win something big and important to get the fans back, to increase the revenue so that better players could be acquired, which would lead to more winning, more revenue and higher advertising and TV rights.

For awhile he was copying it to perfection. The Sox won it all in 2005, had almost three million fans in 2006, outdrew the Cubs in TV viewer ratings....then came the winter meetings of 2007 and he abandoned that philosophy.

Why he did this, I can only guess at, and that very unfortunate because it was working.

Lip

TDog
12-23-2008, 07:05 PM
I'll laugh until they actually win one of these years.

Then again, is this really any different than the way the Yankees have always operated? In the 50s didn't they use the A's as their own personal farm club?

The Yankees used to buy all the best young talent they could in the pre-draft years. That is the most pivotal reason baseball instituted a draft. In the Yankees dynasty years, the only way some teams could stay in business was by selling players to the teams with money. Even Bobby Mercer signed with the Yankees instead of a team that offered more money because the believed he would more than make up the difference in World Series money, although he missed the Yankees October-baseball ship.

In the relatively brief span between the pre-draft years where Yankees money ruled and the era of free agency where Yankees money ruled, you had the poor A's building a dynasty by scouting and developing young talent. Since the 1920s, baseball has been dealing with Yankees money except for the little more than a decade where there was a draft but no free agency.

On the sarcastic side, I don't know why the Yankees need a first baseman after trading for Nick Swisher.

Oblong
12-23-2008, 07:19 PM
I wonder how big a part of the Yankee revenue comes from the YES network.

You guys are right. They built the team up in the 1990s the right way then they were able to build upon that by getting free agents and capitalizing on everything that brings in a market that size. A big part of their advantage isn't so much being able to just sign those kinds of deals but to withstand the damage if one of those deals falls through or goes bust, like they've done in the past on a smaller scale with guys like Drew Henson and Carl Pavano and a larger scale with Giambi. Pavano's situation is one that would put most teams in a big bind. The risk a team like the Tigers take in signing Miguel Cabrera to a deal worth $150+ million just doesn't exist for someone like the Yankees or Red Sox. Chances are Cabrera lives up to it but it's still a considerable risk. He's gotta be the key guy now for 7 more years. If Teixiera flops out after 3 or 4 years then it won't really hurt them to have to replace him.

palehozenychicty
12-23-2008, 07:22 PM
This and that (in no particular order...)

1. The Yankees are doing wants their ownership wants and what their fans demand.

2. The Yankees have advantages other teams do not have HOWEVER (and this is important) they weren't always that way AND (again important) they worked to increase the value and worth of their franchise to the N.Y. market (which like Chicago has two teams.)

Here's what I mean historically. In the mid-1960's the Yankees were a joke. Even though they were in the biggest market in the country they were awful. Even after George Steinbrenner bought the team from CBS and won 3 A.L. pennants and 2 World Series from 76-78, they backslid.

By the late 1980's / early 1990's (and I have the video to prove it) the Yankees weren't drawing squat. Steinbrenner was openly talking about moving the team to N.J. because he felt the area the stadium was in was "unsafe" and that was why fans were staying away. The Yankees also weren't winning.

Like I said I have video of the Sox in N.Y. in great weather in 1990 for example, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO ONE... not a single solitary fan sitting in the lower left and right field seats. NONE!

What changed? Simple. Steinbrenner rolled the dice one last time in the mid 90's and they won...and won...and won some more. Fans returned (despite the "neighborhood") which increased revenue, which they spent on MORE top players, which increased the value of their advertising, and their radio and TV deals and so forth.

Had the Yankees "retrenched" for example and not spent money to remake the club (and subsequently won all those World Series) they never would have been in the position they are in today. Absolutely zero chance.

3. What I find really ironic is that before the Sox won the World Series in 2005 and then shortly afterwards, Kenny was quoted openly and numerous times, directly, as talking about how he basically wanted to copy the "Yankee" formula.

Win something big and important to get the fans back, to increase the revenue so that better players could be acquired, which would lead to more winning, more revenue and higher advertising and TV rights.

For awhile he was copying it to perfection. The Sox won it all in 2005, had almost three million fans in 2006, outdrew the Cubs in TV viewer ratings....then came the winter meetings of 2007 and he abandoned that philosophy.

Why he did this, I can only guess at, and that very unfortunate because it was working.

Lip



Although Steinbrenner was an astute businessman (see his creation of YES after a fallout with MSG cable fees. THAT brought in the major revenue streams), his suspension for the Dave Winfield fiasco is what built the latest Yankee dynasty in the late 90s. It gave time for Bob Watson and Stick Michael to draft and develop Posada, Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, and Pettitte. They also made stealthy moves for Raines, Cone, Lloyd, O'Neill, etc.

Once the pitching vets aged, they kept going for FAs at every position, and therefore, they've lost the gritty chemistry that made them so formidable. Now they're all a collection of overpaid prima donnas.

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 07:23 PM
So i'm thinking about the Yankee roster and here's what I see:
C- Jorge Posada- He has 1 arm.
1B- Teixera- Solid.
2B- Cano- Solid
SS- Jeter- good but deifnately aging quicker than everyone thought
3B- AROD- pads stats through July then crumbles in the money months
LF-Johnny Damon- used to be a stud now ehhh.
CF- Nick Swisher- Benn there done that
RF- Xavier Nady- Nice player nothing special
DH- Hideki Matsui- Can he still walk.
OF/DH- Melky Cabrera- Started off red hot now they want him gone.
CL- Mariano RIvera- Best ever at his POS. Age will catch him eventually, right?
SP-CC- Proven horse has been abused last 2 seasons bound to catch up
SP- Burnett- When healthy is dominant, but when is he healthy?
SP- Wang- very under-rated but coming off injury.
SP- Chamberlain- Appears to have all the tools.
SP Hughes/Kennedy- Neither have proven yet the abiliy to match the hype.
-------------------------------
I still say this is a 3rd place team.

thomas35forever
12-23-2008, 07:23 PM
This is such bull****. It's worse than the Celtics signing both KG and Allen. The Yankees just don't care what shape the economy is in. They spend as they please. That said, I hope they miss the playoffs again, or if that's not possible, a quick first-round exit.

BadBobbyJenks
12-23-2008, 07:27 PM
This is such bull****. It's worse than the Celtics signing both KG and Allen. The Yankees just don't care what shape the economy is in. They spend as they please. That said, I hope they miss the playoffs again, or if that's not possible, a quick first-round exit.

Um, what?

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 07:27 PM
This is such bull****. It's worse than the Celtics signing both KG and Allen. The Yankees just don't care what shape the economy is in. They spend as they please. That said, I hope they miss the playoffs again, or if that's not possible, a quick first-round exit.
If I remember correctly they traded for one of if not both of them. Bitch at the Sonics and T-Wolves not the Celtics.

Lip Man 1
12-23-2008, 07:29 PM
Oblong:

It's a good chunk but not the major portion of it.

For example, this past summer The Sporting News print edition had a very long, thorough story on the "new" Yankee Stadium and what that would mean to the MLB landscape.

In it they noted that the revenue the Yanks will get JUST FROM TICKET SALES ALONE will be more then the majority of all other MLB franchises get in TOTAL revenue.

The Yanks have made their product so desired by their fans, that they will pay anything and everything to see them.

That comes from winning first which leads to massive profits and a tremendous increase in value to potential advertisers and marketers.

Like them or not, they played it well which as I showed earlier is how they came to this position.

Also that TSN story noted (and I wrote a long review of it here at WSI in another thread) that if the Yankees were to go crazy this off season and have a 300 million dollar a year payroll it might be enough to cause the rest of the teams including Boston, to shut the game down to try to force a salary cap. The story quoted some of the Red Sox executives as saying they could no longer financially compete with them.

I don't think it will ever happen but I guess stranger things have happened.

On a side note, the Yanks now have the four highest paid yearly deals in MLB.

Lip

BadBobbyJenks
12-23-2008, 07:29 PM
If I remember correctly they traded for one of if not both of them. Bitch at the Sonics and T-Wolves not the Celtics.

Yes.
Allen was part of the lottery trade for Jeff Green and KG was the Jefferson trade.

Lip Man 1
12-23-2008, 07:41 PM
Jab also makes a valid point. The Yankees are doing nothing wrong. They are playing by the rules that MLB has established, hell they just got billed 30 million in revenue sharing money today which has to be paid by January 1.

If MLB wanted to end the "dominance" of the Yanks they could do it tomorrow by putting in the market a 3rd team, which automatically decreases the value of the Yankees (and Mets) as well as their advertising and radio / TV deals.

But contrary to what comes out of his mouth (woe is baseball...teams can't compete) Proud To Be Your Bud doesn't want to do this and open up a legal can of worms. He doesn't have the gonads for it.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
12-23-2008, 08:08 PM
I just don't know if signing CC to that long of a deal is the wisest move. I see him going downhill a la Bartolo Colon. I think Kazmir has a stronger future ahead of him right now. Thus, I would take Kazmir over Sabathia.


:rolling:

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 08:09 PM
:rolling:
I don't find it funny. Age, price and the abuse Sabathia has gotten from CLeveland and Milwaukee the past 2 seasons I would take Kazmir over Sabathia.

soxinem1
12-23-2008, 08:11 PM
They also made stealthy moves for Raines, Cone, Lloyd, O'Neill, etc.

Once the pitching vets aged, they kept going for FAs at every position, and therefore, they've lost the gritty chemistry that made them so formidable. Now they're all a collection of overpaid prima donnas.

I agree with most of your points, but Raines was washed up by then, and Lloyd was a never-was. He was just a situational lefty.

Steinbrenner always went after FA's and other players since he became owner. That has never changed. Graig Nettles wrote in his book that it often seemed that the Yankees had two All-Star teams on the team, meaning too many players for one position.

But in the early 80's, George's FA jumping and trades led to Dave Collins, Ken Griffey, Don Baylor, Dave Winfield, and anyone he could get his hands on. Those teams didn't win.

As the decade wore on, the likes of Jack Clark, Phil Niekro, Rickey Henderson, Eddie Whitson, Gary Ward, Rick Rhoden, Andy Hawkins, Steve Sax, Jesse Barfield, Dave LaPoint, and scores of other players were tossed huge sums of money and made no difference. The only guy who stuck around most of the decade and did his job was Dave Righetti, but closers were not the guys you built your team around.

George didn't stop in the 90's. As the farm system produced only a few players early on like Bernie Williams and Roberto Kelly, George went after Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, Scott Sanderson, Tim Leary, Danny Tartabull, Charlie Hayes, Mike Gallego, and others throwing money as an inducement, but the team still could not win.

Once Buck Showalter came in, the team started developing some players, and acquired others like Jimmy Key, Paul O'Neill, and John Wettleland who made a difference.

I think Buck deserves a lot of credit for laying the foundation for the teams of the mid-90's to about 2003. Sure, Torre should get credit, but it was not like he came in with a great winning history, because despite managing some good teams in ATL and STL on paper, they couldn't win.

But Torre somehow blended in well with the impatient owner, and the rest is history. It seemed like Steinbrenner was firing coaches, managers, then threatening to fire them, then bringing them back, over and over again. After while, this **** does not play well with any team.

One thing the team did do under Cashman is give more of its minor leaguers chances to become bonified MLB players, something that did not happen very much before, other than Mattingly and a few other guys. I remember when most of those TOR teams of the early-mid-80's were made up of former Yankee prospects. Same with the BAL teams of the 70's and early 80's. The Yanks always signed a lot of excellent amateur talent, but often gave it away.

He also kept the managers position pretty stable. Much more stable than even here in Chicago with either team.

But their hit-and-miss approach to FA players has always been aggressive. It hasn't changed in 35 years. They just happened to make it work a few times.

2906
12-23-2008, 08:11 PM
3. What I find really ironic is that before the Sox won the World Series in 2005 and then shortly afterwards, Kenny was quoted openly and numerous times, directly, as talking about how he basically wanted to copy the "Yankee" formula.


I don't remember him ever saying this.

I do recall him saying the only way they could compete with the Cubs popularity is to win and win some more.

If that's what you mean by copying the Yankee formula, then yeah, I agree. But there's much more to the Yankee formula and we've seen it the last two weeks with Sabathia, Burnett, and now Teixeira.

It's becoming more and more obvious to me what approach the White Sox are taking. They feel there will be good players available mid season and if things are looking good, they can pounce and make trades because now they've deepened the prospect pool. I don't necessarily agree with the approach because I feel April games are just as important as September games ... they all count. Stack up your best team out of the gate.

Meanwhile, they want to give several young guys an opportunity while still keeping a few vets around. I wish they could or would throw money around to all these marquee free agents, but they don't so I'm not going to spend a lot of time angsting about it.

LoveYourSuit
12-23-2008, 08:14 PM
I don't find it funny. Age, price and the abuse Sabathia has gotten from CLeveland and Milwaukee the past 2 seasons I would take Kazmir over Sabathia.


Next to Ben Sheets, Kazmir is the biggest China Doll of a starting pitcher in all of baseball.

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 08:20 PM
Next to Ben Sheets, Kazmir is the biggest China Doll of a starting pitcher in all of baseball.
Take away his 1st season and he averages 29 starts a season. Thats fine.

LoveYourSuit
12-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Take away his 1st season and he averages 29 starts a season. Thats fine.

less than 5-6 innings per start?

No thanks.

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 08:36 PM
less than 5-6 innings per start?

No thanks.
I like to think someone of his talent will mature to a 7 inning pitcher.

SoxyStu
12-23-2008, 08:45 PM
Sean McAdam says Boston had more money on table but Boras wanted to stick it to John Henry after the owner sent his e-mail.

I haven't followed this situation. Is there a link you can provide that would shed some light as to why McAdam would assert such a thing? I understand Boras is a powerful agent, but to use a client as a chip to get back at an owner (unless Henry disrespected Tex) doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't it piss you off if, for example, you were Tex? Whose ultimate decision is it? Couldn't Tex simply have chosen NY over Boston because he wanted to play there? I have a hard time believing this conspiracy theory, but, like I said, I haven't been following this situation lately.

Paulwny
12-23-2008, 08:53 PM
I wonder how big a part of the Yankee revenue comes from the YES network..

The link is an article form 07'.
According to the article, in 2007 the YES Net took in $340 mil in revenue.
The yanks own 36% of the YEs Net, having sold part to investors for $350 mil in 2001.
Today the YES Net value is between $2-$3 Billion.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&refer=home&sid=aTcfoWsgk6Yg

Lip Man 1
12-23-2008, 08:54 PM
2906:

He never specifically said "Yankee" but his comments were as I stated. He badly wanted to win to get more people in the stands which would enable him to have more money to spend on payroll, to get better talent to continue to win.

That would automatically increase the value of the franchise as well as the advertising, marketing fees and the radio / TV rights.

Just like the Yankees have done.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
12-23-2008, 08:56 PM
I like to think someone of his talent will mature to a 7 inning pitcher.


I would take CC over him any day of the week.

Now, if TB calls Kenny and offers Kazmir for Dye straight up.... where do I sign.

cbrownson13
12-23-2008, 09:25 PM
When did Scott Kazmir become better than CC? And what, besides opinion, makes him better? Facts, please.

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 09:28 PM
When did Scott Kazmir become better than CC? And what, besides opinion, makes him better? Facts, please.
I'm going with age, bang for buck and the fact Cleveland and Milwaukee abused the guy in the past 2 seasons and I expect him to break down. Thats it really.

btrain929
12-23-2008, 09:31 PM
Remember when this thread was about Mark Teixeira? Man, those were the days....

getonbckthr
12-23-2008, 09:33 PM
Remember when this thread was about Mark Teixeira? Man, those were the days....
I was just following the topic at hand.

NLaloosh
12-23-2008, 10:36 PM
Mark Texeira.

Can you say OVERRATED?

turners56
12-23-2008, 10:39 PM
Mark Texeira.

Can you say OVERRATED?

No, just overpaid.

whitesox901
12-23-2008, 10:59 PM
Since Teixiera went to the Yankees, LAaaaaaaaaaa needs a 1B, HEY! Maybe we can trade Konerko for Figgins? Right? Come on' Kenny, Make it happen!

gogosox16
12-23-2008, 11:05 PM
Since Teixiera went to the Yankees, LAaaaaaaaaaa needs a 1B, HEY! Maybe we can trade Konerko for Figgins? Right? Come on' Kenny, Make it happen!
Hey maybe the 3rd year of people talking about it might happening is the charm:tongue:

Fenway
12-23-2008, 11:48 PM
The link is an article form 07'.
According to the article, in 2007 the YES Net took in $340 mil in revenue.
The yanks own 36% of the YEs Net, having sold part to investors for $350 mil in 2001.
Today the YES Net value is between $2-$3 Billion.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&refer=home&sid=aTcfoWsgk6Yg

Just for comparison

The Yankees have 11.5 million subscribers on YES. Of that an average of 350,000 watch a game.

The Red Sox on NESN have 4 million subscribers and average viewershiip of 270,000.

Bottom line is NYY still gets paid for those 11 million not watching

Yankees didn't put up a dime to start YES as they sold off 62 percent to Goldman-Sacs for 350 million before they even went on the air in 2002.Now Goldman wants to sell and NYY has option to buy shares back.

The new stadium as Lip pointed out is designed to get every last dime from fans. Their scout seats (300 total) go for $2500 A GAME and those seats alone bring in SIXTY MILLION a year. They have taken concessions inhouse like Wirtz did at the UC.

Thome25
12-24-2008, 12:10 AM
Luxury tax, schmuxury tax. The Yanks have gotten a ton better in the past month...

The Yanks still have two question marks in their rotation in Hughes and Joba.

btrain929
12-24-2008, 12:11 AM
The Yanks still have two question marks in their rotation in Hughes and Joba.

Joba is the man. They just have to worry about the 5 hole...

Scottiehaswheels
12-24-2008, 12:30 AM
I can't wait for CC to pull a fat muscle again in the first game of the season and hear all about it in the media.

cards press box
12-24-2008, 12:41 AM
The Yanks still have two question marks in their rotation in Hughes and Joba.

They have more question marks than that. Burnett is an injury waiting to happen. Wang is coming off a major injury. And who knows with CC? Milwaukee worked him pretty hard down the stretch and his effectiveness dropped. CC is a big guy and he turns 29 next July. He's still a young guy but after he hits 30, he might have problems.

Anyone remember Kevin Mitchell? Mitchell was a fine hitter with the Mets and later the Giants but he always carried a lot of weight. This led to knee and leg problems that never really went away. Mitchell had an excellent season at age 28 (35 HR 93 RBI .290). At 29, he had an O.K. season (27 HR 69 RBI .256) After Mitchell turned 30, he never played a 100 games in a season again. I'm not saying that Sabathia is exactly comparable to Mitchell, but Sabathia's durability bears watching.

whitesox901
12-24-2008, 01:53 AM
They have more question marks than that. Burnett is an injury waiting to happen. Wang is coming off a major injury. And who knows with CC? Milwaukee worked him pretty hard down the stretch and his effectiveness dropped. CC is a big guy and he turns 29 next July. He's still a young guy but after he hits 30, he might have problems.

Anyone remember Kevin Mitchell? Mitchell was a fine hitter with the Mets and later the Giants but he always carried a lot of weight. This led to knee and leg problems that never really went away. Mitchell had an excellent season at age 28 (35 HR 93 RBI .290). At 29, he had an O.K. season (27 HR 69 RBI .256) After Mitchell turned 30, he never played a 100 games in a season again. I'm not saying that Sabathia is exactly comparable to Mitchell, but Sabathia's durability bears watching.

Most Deff, CC and AJ are MAJOR risks.

LoveYourSuit
12-24-2008, 02:37 AM
Most Deff, CC and AJ are MAJOR risks.


Every pitcher in ML baseball is a risk to get injured. Yes it's a more expensive "risk" to the Yankees, but if their Bentley breaks down all they do is go out and buy a Lexus to keep on going.

Can we stop using the words "risk" and "Yankees" in the same sentence?

BadBobbyJenks
12-24-2008, 04:14 AM
Back to Teixiera, I saw a stat tonight that since his rookie year there are 5 guys who have hit .290 and 200 homers. Puljos, Ortiz, ARod, Manny and Tex. But yeah he is sooooo overrated.:rolleyes:

BleacherBandit
12-24-2008, 04:35 AM
I don't know what sickens me more, the obscene ammount of money the Yankees have spent already this off-season, or the fact that it won't make as much of an difference as we think it will. :scratch:

Thome25
12-24-2008, 08:41 AM
Joba is the man. They just have to worry about the 5 hole...

They don't know if Joba can handle the workload of an entire season......so yeah he's still a questionmark.


They have more question marks than that. Burnett is an injury waiting to happen. Wang is coming off a major injury. And who knows with CC? Milwaukee worked him pretty hard down the stretch and his effectiveness dropped. CC is a big guy and he turns 29 next July. He's still a young guy but after he hits 30, he might have problems.

Anyone remember Kevin Mitchell? Mitchell was a fine hitter with the Mets and later the Giants but he always carried a lot of weight. This led to knee and leg problems that never really went away. Mitchell had an excellent season at age 28 (35 HR 93 RBI .290). At 29, he had an O.K. season (27 HR 69 RBI .256) After Mitchell turned 30, he never played a 100 games in a season again. I'm not saying that Sabathia is exactly comparable to Mitchell, but Sabathia's durability bears watching.

This is my point. The Yankees have PLENTY of questionmarks in their starting rotation in 2009. Everyone wants to complain that the White Sox have two holes in their rotation well, I'm here to say so do the Yankees.

They have AT LEAST two questionmarks in their rotation and probably more:

CC Sabathia--Weight issues may catch up to him. He may be one Big Mac away from a major back problem. Ahem...David Wells...Ahem....Bartolo Colon

AJ Burnett-Can he stay healthy? Will he ever be more than just a good/average pitcher?

Chien Ming Wang--Coming off an injury......How well can he rebound from that?

Joba Chamberlain--Can he handle the workload of a full season as a starter? Will he be effective during a full season?

Phil Hughes--Soon to be 23-year-old was 0-4 with a 6.62 ERA in 2008. Will this guy ever come around? Who knows?

See? There's plenty of questionmarks in the starting rotation of the mighty Yankees. Especially at the back end of the rotation. Sound familiar? The White Sox currently are in the same situation.....with two questionmarks at the back end of the rotation.

This should help you notice the chink in the Yankees armor right now......and make us feel better about our own rotation because if the free-spending Yankees rotation ain't perfect right now then well, it's hard for anybody's to be perfect isn't it?

The only interesting thing is I heard on the Boston Propaganda Network the the Yankees are still well below the 200 million mark for payroll even after signing Tex. They had 88 million come off the books from Giambi, Pettitte, Mussina, Abreu, etc. So who knows if they're done spending.

With that said, the Tex signing means NOTHING. Yeah, he's a good solid player but, I don't think he can pitch. The Yankees still have plent of questionmarks in their rotation.

Everyone is picking them as the favorites to win the WS in 2009 including Vegas. Well, I'm loving that because if the "experts" pick you, you're done.

This reeks of the Yankees in 2005 and the Tigers in 2008. Everyone crowned them before play even started because the Yankees got Randy Johnson and Kevin Brown and the Tigers got Cabrera and Dontrelle. We all know how that turned out don't we?

AZChiSoxFan
12-24-2008, 08:55 AM
Use whichever word you want: huge, clear, definite. He'll be an improvement over Giambi offensively. Plus he's an ABSOLUTE upgrade defensively. Combine that with the fact Teixeira is 28 and is at the point of his career where he will either maintain or improve on his already impressive career numbers, and this is a clear upgrade.

And if you consider that the last 2 years, Giambi has made 23.5MIL a year, the Yanks will be paying the same amount of money to a young player that is a better defender and better hitter.

So, what's the dispute here, again?

Giambi hit 32 HR and had 96 RBI last year. I don't think it's any guarantee that Tex matches that this year. He sure wouldn't be the first player to struggle with playing in the Big Apple, especially in the first year. I agree with the poster who first made this point: The Yanks aren't light years better than they were last year because of these signings.

AZChiSoxFan
12-24-2008, 08:57 AM
They signed Burnett, as well. Wang is coming back and possibly Pettite. The rotation as of now is very strong:

CC
Burnett
Wang
Joba
Pettite/Hughes/Kennedy

Add Texieria, with Posada and Matsui coming back from injury. Any bounce back from Cano/Melky/Swisher as an added bonus.

How can you say you don't think they'll be better? :scratch:

Were you one of the millions who at this date last year was ready to had the trophy to the Tigers?

cleogogo
12-24-2008, 09:02 AM
Nice summary Thome25. But, If the Yankees bring back Petite, it makes the staff much stronger.

AZChiSoxFan
12-24-2008, 09:03 AM
So the only Sox staters you truly repsect are Buehrle and BA?

There are lots of reasons to dislike the Yanks - but not having their own players on their team isn't the big one. They have used their farm to make deals. They have given up draft picks as compensation for FA. And they still have a decent farm with guys like Chamberlain and Hughes up now, and guys like Jackson, Montero, Romine, Betances and Brackman in the future plans.

Despite signing 3 Type A FAs, the Yanks will still have a #1 and a #2 pick next year - compensation for guys they drafted who they didn't sign.

I don't hate the Yanks. I hate the rules that allow the Yanks to do what they do. The luxury tax is a joke. There is no parity in baseball, nor is there equity.

Despite having the highest payroll in baseball, how many WS titles have the Yankees won in the past 8 years?

AZChiSoxFan
12-24-2008, 09:08 AM
Ugh. Really starting to lose faith in the way the MLB does business. This is getting to ridiculous levels now. It's laughable. No other team can compete with the amount of money the Yankees have.

Silly me. I thought the D-backs, Angels, Marlins, Red Cubs, Sox, Cards, Red Cubs, and Phillies won the last 8 World Series.

Thome25
12-24-2008, 09:12 AM
Silly me. I thought the D-backs, Angels, Marlins, Red Cubs, Sox, Cards, Red Cubs, and Phillies won the last 8 World Series.

And they didn't break the bank to do it either. (With the exception of the Red Sawx.) You don't have to spend like a drunken sailor to win the WS anymore. They Yankees haven't won it in 8 years with a 200 + million payroll but, these teams did. Heck the Tigers were crowned WS champions before 2008 even started because of the players they acquired and the money they spent.

Viva Medias B's
12-24-2008, 10:41 AM
It seems like Hank is just like his father and will do any act of desperation to win the World Series.

FedEx227
12-24-2008, 11:14 AM
Silly me. I thought the D-backs, Angels, Marlins, Red Cubs, Sox, Cards, Red Cubs, and Phillies won the last 8 World Series.

Let me repeat.

I'm not talking about a purely competition on the field sense.

With a new stadium and a television network puts their revenue leaps and bounds above ANY current major league team.

No, it doesn't mean they're guaranteed to win every World Series, they may not win one for years... but it is not healthy in the long-term for the league for one team to constantly control the Free Agent market, which because of this new stadium, the Yankees WILL do.

Thome25
12-24-2008, 01:27 PM
Let me repeat.

I'm not talking about a purely competition on the field sense.

With a new stadium and a television network puts their revenue leaps and bounds above ANY current major league team.

No, it doesn't mean they're guaranteed to win every World Series, they may not win one for years... but it is not healthy in the long-term for the league for one team to constantly control the Free Agent market, which because of this new stadium, the Yankees WILL do.

That is why MLB needs a salary cap.

Lip Man 1
12-24-2008, 05:08 PM
Thome:

Do they? With MLB now a 6 1/2 billion dollar industry?

I wonder where all the money is going then.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
12-24-2008, 05:52 PM
That is why MLB needs a salary cap.


It's a great idea but it might be too late.

Where to you start and where do you set it? The Yankees are going to be at near $200 million for the next 8 years with these new contracts, is it fair to tell them that starting in 2010 they need to come back down to $150 million? And how many teams are even near that $150 million mark to begin with (4 or 5)? And you have to set a minimum with the cap, you think the Pirates, Marlins, & Rays will all of sudden decide to raise their payroll to the minimum line set at perahps $75 million.

The gap between the Yankees and Marlins is way too big to be able to impose a salary cap this easily. Because if you have a maximum, then you have to have a minimum.

DSpivack
12-24-2008, 06:59 PM
It's a great idea but it might be too late.

Where to you start and where do you set it? The Yankees are going to be at near $200 million for the next 8 years with these new contracts, is it fair to tell them that starting in 2010 they need to come back down to $150 million? And how many teams are even near that $150 million mark to begin with (4 or 5)? And you have to set a minimum with the cap, you think the Pirates, Marlins, & Rays will all of sudden decide to raise their payroll to the minimum line set at perahps $75 million.

The gap between the Yankees and Marlins is way too big to be able to impose a salary cap this easily. Because if you have a maximum, then you have to have a minimum.

I don't know if I'd be more for a cap or not, but there are several ways to do it. The NFL has a hard team cap with a soft player cap; you can give any one player any amount he wants, but your team is strictly limited. The NBA has the opposite; player salaries are strictly limited, but instead of a hard cap, a much harsher [in comparison to baseball, anyway] luxury tax is in place if you are over their soft team cap. I don't know if either is the answer for baseball.

btrain929
12-24-2008, 07:02 PM
Salary caps minimizes trade and signing rumors. And I love me some trade and signing rumors...

SOXSINCE'70
12-24-2008, 07:31 PM
Despite having the highest payroll in baseball, how many WS titles have the Yankees won in the past 8 years?


The same number the White Sox have:1.One World Series in 8 years.
Of course,this White Sox fan would give an arm or leg to see the Sox
win a World series every eight years.

Lip Man 1
12-24-2008, 07:44 PM
This White Sox fan would give an arm or a leg to see the team have a chance to win a World Series by making the playoffs 13 of the last 14 seasons.

You can't win a World Series if you don't even get to the postseason can you?

Lip

getonbckthr
12-25-2008, 10:26 AM
A discussion at family dinner was if Mark Tiexera is a 22.5 million/yr player does that elevate Pujols to arod's pay scale? Comparing their 162 averages:
Pujols 42 hrs 128 RBI's .334 average .425 ON-base and 66 K's
Texiera 36 hrs 121 RBI's .290 average .398 On base 124 K's.
It could also be said that Texiera between lineups in Texas and Anaheim had a ton more protection than Pujols. Imagine if Pujols had Vlad behind him or the oppertunity to play 81 games in Texas!

palehozenychicty
12-25-2008, 10:56 AM
A discussion at family dinner was if Mark Tiexera is a 22.5 million/yr player does that elevate Pujols to arod's pay scale? Comparing their 162 averages:
Pujols 42 hrs 128 RBI's .334 average .425 ON-base and 66 K's
Texiera 36 hrs 121 RBI's .290 average .398 On base 124 K's.
It could also be said that Texiera between lineups in Texas and Anaheim had a ton more protection than Pujols. Imagine if Pujols had Vlad behind him or the oppertunity to play 81 games in Texas!


Therefore, Pujols is an even bigger beast than common perception. Fat Albert is like Mariano in that he's so good and quiet that people forget about him.

soxfanreggie
12-25-2008, 01:29 PM
They have Pujols locked up through 2011 with the highest paid year being $16 million. It was $100 million contract, but because a chunk can be deferred, the contract is truly only worth $90 million. At 29 in a few weeks, he will be 32 when he joins a new team. I see him pulling down that is minimum 5-6 years worth $125-$150 million. In a couple years, you could easily see that up to $140-$150 million.

LoveYourSuit
12-25-2008, 03:40 PM
This White Sox fan would give an arm or a leg to see the team have a chance to win a World Series by making the playoffs 13 of the last 14 seasons.

You can't win a World Series if you don't even get to the postseason can you?

Lip


Couldn't agree more Lip.

And the Sox are not competing in the AL East to get to postseason. That makes the Yankee accomplishments that much greater, making postseason that often in the toughest division in all of baseball.

Ziggy S
12-25-2008, 05:00 PM
A discussion at family dinner was if Mark Tiexera is a 22.5 million/yr player does that elevate Pujols to arod's pay scale? Comparing their 162 averages:
Pujols 42 hrs 128 RBI's .334 average .425 ON-base and 66 K's
Texiera 36 hrs 121 RBI's .290 average .398 On base 124 K's.
It could also be said that Texiera between lineups in Texas and Anaheim had a ton more protection than Pujols. Imagine if Pujols had Vlad behind him or the oppertunity to play 81 games in Texas!

Those are Big Hurt numbers, right there.