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View Full Version : do you think we will compete in 09?


whitesox30
12-10-2008, 06:01 PM
Hey guys! im from iowa and a huge white sox fan...dont post a whole lot but view the site daily.....was wondering if you guys are feeling good about this team going into next year with all these question marks... would love to hear your thoughts...

Thanks,


Neil

Lip Man 1
12-10-2008, 06:08 PM
I think it's to early to tell. It's December 10th. This is better asked say on February 10th when most of the work has been done by the Sox and other teams.

Lip

35th and Shields
12-10-2008, 06:13 PM
I think it's to early to tell. It's December 10th. This is better asked say on February 10th when most of the work has been done by the Sox and other teams.

Lip

Yeah I agree. It's to early to tell but if I had to give you an answer now I think were looking at a slightly more then .500 team. Just to many question marks in the rotation and from everything I've heard it doesn't sound like the sox are looking outside of the organization unless the price is right.

DSpivack
12-10-2008, 06:14 PM
Yes, it's not like the Twins or anyone else has done much yet.

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 06:24 PM
Yes, it's not like the Twins or anyone else has done much yet.


I think our moves will be based on what the rest of division does, sad to say.

whitesox30
12-10-2008, 06:27 PM
yeah you all make pretty good points, but right now im feeling pretty damn nervous about these moves that we are making...i really hope we don't trade JD after how much hes meant to this organization the last few years...

getonbckthr
12-10-2008, 06:28 PM
So far Detoilet has added Laird and crap.
Cleveland has added Wood. ehhh.
Minnesota has done nothing.
KC I ask are they even existent?
Then us. So far our team has gotten better by way of subtraction.

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 06:32 PM
So far Detoilet has added Laird and crap.
Cleveland has added Wood. ehhh.
Minnesota has done nothing.
KC I ask are they even existent?
Then us. So far our team has gotten better by way of subtraction.

I still think Javy brings us more value as a #4 starter than Richard or Marquez will. So I don't think our rotation is better today than it was last year.


But Javy was a bit expensive for a #4 starter, although what the Yankees will be doing this offseason in what they spend for D Lowe as perhaps their #4, Javy becomes not that bad of a contract.

cards press box
12-10-2008, 06:33 PM
Yes, I think the Sox will be competitive in 2009. I like the moves. The Sox have added depth, speed, defense and youth. If Jeff Marquez is as good (and as good a fit for U.S. Cellular Field) as the Sox believe he is, then the Sox will be in good shape. Marquez' numbers in the minors are similar to Gavin Floyd's and, like Floyd, Marquez was another team's 1st round pick, albeit taken much later in the round.

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 06:46 PM
The Sox have added depth, speed, defense and youth. .

Depth - just because you add a bunch of guys who play the same position as other guys does not mean you create depth. Good depth, is good. Having depth just because of same position means nothing.

Speed - Who? Lillibridge? The guy is going to be a utility player based on what scouts have seen of him. So he's Pablo Ozuna, horray.

Defense - They picked up a catcher who can't catch and is headed to being a DH or 1B, we don't know about the rest of them.

Youth - Yes that is correct. But can this youth play and produce in 2009?

jabrch
12-10-2008, 06:59 PM
I think it's to early to tell. It's December 10th. This is better asked say on February 10th when most of the work has been done by the Sox and other teams.

Lip

I agree with Lip here. IF the season started today - hell - sure we would. But it doesn't. Will we compete? It depends on what other teams do, and on what we do.

DumpJerry
12-10-2008, 06:59 PM
Hey guys! im from iowa and a huge white sox fan...dont post a whole lot but view the site daily.....was wondering if you guys are feeling good about this team going into next year with all these question marks... would love to hear your thoughts...

Thanks,


Neil
2009 AL Central champs.
2009 AL Pennant winners
2009 World Series champs.

No question marks here.

chisox123
12-10-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm very cautious right now. I'm hoping for the best but at least right now, and it is still very early, there are a lot of question marks. 2nd base ? 3rd hopefully Fields will be like he was in 07 but it's tough to know. 4th-5th starters ? CF probably the same as last years just w/o swisher. RF who goes there if we trade Dye?

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 07:01 PM
2009 AL Central champs.
2009 AL Pennant winners
2009 World Series champs.

No question marks here.


:hawk


"Your what hurts?"

chisox123
12-10-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm very cautious right now. I'm hoping for the best but at least right now, and it is still very early, there are a lot of question marks. 2nd base ? 3rd hopefully Fields will be like he was in 07 but it's tough to know. 4th-5th starters ? CF probably the same as last years just w/o swisher. RF who goes there if we trade Dye?

But there is still A LOT of time

Lundind1
12-10-2008, 07:03 PM
Defense - They picked up a catcher who can't catch and is headed to being a DH or 1B, we don't know about the rest of them.


That is how Paulie started out. I have a card with him in catchers gear from the Dodgers organization.

We have added some things that were well needed with this club. People think that there is no depth here, but it is a good thing when you 3 players who can play each infield position. You have the flexibility of not being really stuck with one guy if he fails to perform or if one gets hurt, it is easy to stick someone in that spot and not lose production.

I think that in time, this will help be either one of the greatest busts of a promising team or it will build on of the greatest teams in franchise history. This will not be just another .500 group, either really bad or really awesome to watch.

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 07:06 PM
That is how Paulie started out. I have a card with him in catchers gear from the Dodgers organization.

We have added some things that were well needed with this club. People think that there is no depth here, but it is a good thing when you 3 players who can play each infield position. You have the flexibility of not being really stuck with one guy if he fails to perform or if one gets hurt, it is easy to stick someone in that spot and not lose production.

I think that in time, this will help be either one of the greatest busts of a promising team or it will build on of the greatest teams in franchise history. This will not be just another .500 group, either really bad or really awesome to watch.


Yes, but any depth is not good depth.

We had depth at the 3B, SS, 2B like no one else a few years back .... Uribe, Ozuna, Cintron..... how did that work out for us?

jcw218
12-10-2008, 07:14 PM
Speed - Who? Lillibridge? The guy is going to be a utility player based on what scouts have seen of him. So he's Pablo Ozuna, horray.

IIRC, when KW talks about speed, he does not mean stolen bases per say, but the ability to go from 1st to third on a base hit, to score from 2nd on a single, or to score from 1st on an extra base hit. He also wants our defense to limit the number of extra bases that are hit against us.

Source: Speed to burn (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3701420&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

Daver
12-10-2008, 07:14 PM
Oh come on, the Sox are going to have Josh Fields anchoring 3rd, Jerry Owens patrolling CF, and Chris Getz at 2nd, if nothing else it will be interesting to watch.

Lundind1
12-10-2008, 07:25 PM
Yes, but any depth is not good depth.

We had depth at the 3B, SS, 2B like no one else a few years back .... Uribe, Ozuna, Cintron..... how did that work out for us?

Yes but it is better than not having anything to put there if someone got hurt. Who was going to play 3B in 2008 if Uribe got hurt, which I thought he did one night....thank god he didn't. Fields would have been an emergency call up? He didn't join the team until the September call-ups and even then the team said he just wasn't that healthy.

I'll take whatever I can get right now, esp. if we are not going to actually sign a good free agent for 3B and another one for 2B. That is what bugs the hell out of me.

DickAllen72
12-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Oh come on, the Sox are going to have Josh Fields anchoring 3rd, Jerry Owens patrolling CF, and Chris Getz at 2nd, if nothing else it will be interesting to watch.
Hey Daver, what is your opinion of Getz' defense at 2B? How would you compare his defense at 2B with that of Iguchi and Ramirez?

Thanks.

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 07:35 PM
Hey Daver, what is your opinion of Getz' defense at 2B? How would you compare his defense at 2B with that of Iguchi and Ramirez?

Thanks.


:?: Daver is Steve Stone all of a sudden?

Lundind1
12-10-2008, 07:40 PM
:?: Daver is Steve Stone all of a sudden?

I just knew Stoney was lurking around this place, I just knew it.

Daver
12-10-2008, 07:49 PM
Hey Daver, what is your opinion of Getz' defense at 2B? How would you compare his defense at 2B with that of Iguchi and Ramirez?

Thanks.

Chris Getz reminds me a lot of Ray Durham, he'll make most routine plays and occasionaly pull off a gem, Ramirez and Iguchi were much more solid defenders all around. You don't get the occasional power with Getz that you got with Durham though, Getz has little power at the plate to speak of.

DickAllen72
12-10-2008, 07:59 PM
Chris Getz reminds me a lot of Ray Durham, he'll make most routine plays and occasionaly pull off a gem, Ramirez and Iguchi were much more solid defenders all around. You don't get the occasional power with Getz that you got with Durham though, Getz has little power at the plate to speak of.
Thanks. How is he at turning the DP? That's what concerns me most about whomever the Sox put at 2B next year.

Daver
12-10-2008, 08:08 PM
Thanks. How is he at turning the DP? That's what concerns me most about whomever the Sox put at 2B next year.
That would be the least of my concerns on defense, it is the easiest task to accomplish unless you have a habit of throwing the ball into the seats.

guillensdisciple
12-10-2008, 08:14 PM
Yes, we will be.
Anything better then '07 is competitive to me, and I don't see the Sox being that bad.

TheOldRoman
12-10-2008, 08:32 PM
That would be the least of my concerns on defense, it is the easiest task to accomplish unless you have a habit of throwing the ball into the seats.That would be quite an accomplishment from second base.:D:

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 08:56 PM
I just knew Stoney was lurking around this place, I just knew it.


Daver,

Will Jerry Owerns hit above .275 this year as lead off and give us a .365 OPB%?

I'll hang up and listen to my answer, thanks.

turners56
12-10-2008, 08:57 PM
The winter meetings aren't even done. I'd give it more time. If nothing more is done when the convention rolls around, I'd start getting a little worried.

DSpivack
12-10-2008, 09:02 PM
That would be quite an accomplishment from second base.:D:

I believe it's called "pulling a Knoblauch."

sox1970
12-10-2008, 09:03 PM
The winter meetings aren't even done. I'd give it more time. If nothing more is done when the convention rolls around, I'd start getting a little worried.

Tonight is basically the end of the meetings. They do the Rule 5 in the morning, and they're outta there.

LoveYourSuit
12-10-2008, 09:09 PM
The winter meetings aren't even done. I'd give it more time. If nothing more is done when the convention rolls around, I'd start getting a little worried.


You mean Sox Fest?

Sox Fest is usually the time when the Sox bring out their new acquisitions to introduce to the crowd ....... I wonder if they will haul in the new Ramp for gate 5 because that's about all we have right now to introduce. :wink:

tm1119
12-10-2008, 10:00 PM
So far Detoilet has added Laird and crap.
Cleveland has added Wood. ehhh.
Minnesota has done nothing.
KC I ask are they even existent?
Then us. So far our team has gotten better by way of subtraction.

Nope, sorry we in no way have gotten better. In fact, we've gotten much worse to this point.

Swisher sucked last year but he is a much better baseball player than both BA and Owens.
OC is much better than Getz.
Crede/Uribe is probably about equal to Fields/Betemit
And Vazquez is much better than any rookie pitcher we are gonna throw in there.

We gotta be realistic here guys. I know its a White Sox forum and everything but the homerism here gets pretty outta hand here sometimes.

Zisk77
12-10-2008, 10:02 PM
That would be the least of my concerns on defense, it is the easiest task to accomplish unless you have a habit of throwing the ball into the seats.

Jorge Orta says hello.

champagne030
12-10-2008, 10:50 PM
I think it's to early to tell. It's December 10th. This is better asked say on February 10th when most of the work has been done by the Sox and other teams.

Lip

Thank God it's only 12/10!

Yes, it's not like the Twins or anyone else has done much yet.

No, but we've regressed. Downgrade at SP, 3B and 2B/SS combo is worse than last year. We've dumped salary to this point and thrown a few darts that might help us in future years.

DickAllen72
12-10-2008, 10:58 PM
That would be the least of my concerns on defense, it is the easiest task to accomplish unless you have a habit of throwing the ball into the seats.
Some guys don't make the pivot and throw as smoothly as others, costing precious fractions of a second which can be the difference on a close play at first. Others aren't as adept at avoiding the hard slides and never get the throw off. Still others have weak arms that also could be the difference on close plays at first.

A good pivot man can really be the difference in getting out of a tough inning sometimes.

Daver
12-10-2008, 11:11 PM
Some guys don't make the pivot and throw as smoothly as others, costing precious fractions of a second which can be the difference on a close play at first. Others aren't as adept at avoiding the hard slides and never get the throw off. Still others have weak arms that also could be the difference on close plays at first.

A good pivot man can really be the difference in getting out of a tough inning sometimes.

If given the choice between someone that makes the routine play but occaisionally misses the DP and someone that routinely extends innings by catching ground balls with his face I'll take the former.

DickAllen72
12-10-2008, 11:20 PM
If given the choice between someone that makes the routine play but occaisionally misses the DP and someone that routinely extends innings by catching ground balls with his face I'll take the former.
Well yes, so would I. But if I had a choice between a guy who's pretty solid making the plays and is adept at turning the DP and someone who makes spectacular plays but routinely botches the DP, I'd take the former.

Of course both of our scenarios are the extreme. But assuming that Getz, Lillibridge and Nix are all solid making the routine plays, I'd prefer the one who is best at turning the DP unless one of the others is head and shoulders better with the bat.

Brian26
12-10-2008, 11:34 PM
:?: Daver is Steve Stone all of a sudden?

Daver has seen more of Chris Getz than Stone has.

WhiteSoxOnly
12-10-2008, 11:36 PM
Jorge Orta says hello.

Isn't that the truth.I remember many a game at Old Comiskey
sitting behind first base and thinking he was trying to throw
the damn ball to me.

TheOldRoman
12-11-2008, 12:04 AM
Jorge Orta says hello.I thought Daver was talking about just turning double plays, not throwing to first. I am much to young to have seen Orta play. He may have been Valentin-bad with his throws, but I doubt he ever threw the ball into the third base stands while trying to turn a double play from 2B. If he did, I would love to see video of the play.:smile: