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Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 07:38 PM
A major league source told the Dayton Dailey News that a deal is done and will be announced this week.

http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 07:40 PM
I hope Dickerson is part of the deal...

Craig Grebeck
12-07-2008, 07:42 PM
A major league source told the Dayton Dailey News that a deal is done and will be announced this week.

http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html
Whoa! I hope it's more than that.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2008, 07:44 PM
yeah that does not seem like a lot for our best trading chip

delben91
12-07-2008, 07:46 PM
I also hope it'd be more than Dye for Bailey straight up.

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 07:46 PM
We have to get at least 2-3 good prospects for Dye...

Corlose 15
12-07-2008, 07:46 PM
I've got to think Dye is worth more that just Bailey. Usually more players come out in these deals after the initial story breaks, hopefully the Sox get another high end prospect out of this.


If this is true, who takes Dye's spot in the OF?

oeo
12-07-2008, 07:47 PM
We have to get at least 2-3 good prospects for Dye...

Well not if we expect the Reds to pick up his remaining salary.

Nothing more than a salary dump and Kenny getting his guy if true. Something that probably isn't going to pay off in 2009, but 2010 and beyond.

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 07:48 PM
I've got to think Dye is worth more that just Bailey. Usually more players come out in these deals after the initial story breaks, hopefully the Sox get another high end prospect out of this.


If this is true, who takes Dye's spot in the OF?

Quentin in RF and hopefully Dickerson in LF

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 07:48 PM
Manny Ramirez signing and play LF for a year til Thome is gone? I dont know how I feel about this Dye trade. If its rebuilding then **** it get what you can for Paulie, Thome, AJ and Buerhle.

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 07:48 PM
Whoa! I hope it's more than that.

This

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 07:49 PM
Manny Ramirez signing and play LF for a year til Thome is gone? I dont know how I feel about this Dye trade. If its rebuilding then **** it get what you can for Paulie, Thome, AJ and Buerhle.


Would love to have Manny on the Sox but that won't happen at all

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 07:49 PM
Well not if we expect the Reds to pick up his remaining salary.

Nothing more than a salary dump and Kenny getting his guy if true. Something that probably isn't going to pay off in 2009, but 2010 and beyond.
His remaining salary is minimal considering the production. .300 ave, 35-40 hrs and 100 rbis for 11 million?

oeo
12-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Manny Ramirez signing and play LF for a year til Thome is gone? I dont know how I feel about this Dye trade. If its rebuilding then **** it get what you can for Paulie, Thome, AJ and Buerhle.

It's not like he's trading for guys that are years away. Why in the hell would he trade Buehrle?

Rockabilly
12-07-2008, 07:51 PM
if we trade Buehrle.. I will be pissed off

KRS1
12-07-2008, 07:51 PM
I'll never fault Kenny for trading an older guy making a lot of money for a 22 year-old stud with tremendous stuff, regardless of the kids struggles because he was rushed. Hopefully we got something else back for trading a sure high-quality player in exchange for a ?, but there have been worse gambles taken.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2008, 07:51 PM
I wonder where our payroll stands at now

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 07:52 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. I remember last year we supposedly signed Bartolo Colon.

KRS1
12-07-2008, 07:53 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. I remember last year we supposedly signed Bartolo Colon.

Yeah, I forgot that part in my post.

oeo
12-07-2008, 07:53 PM
I'll never fault Kenny for trading an older guy making a lot of money for a 22 year-old stud with tremendous stuff, regardless of the kids struggles because he was rushed. Hopefully we got something else back for trading a sure high-quality player in exchange for a ?, but there have been worse gambles taken.

Exactly. People will be pissed off now, but be loving it in a couple of years when it's paying off.

Kenny appears to be trying to build a solid 1-5 like the 2005 squad, but one that will be around for longer than a year.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 07:55 PM
Exactly. People will be pissed off now, but be loving it in a couple of years when it's paying off.

You say that like it's a sure thing. He's a failed prospect thus far.

I don't like trading our 2nd best hitter for one pitcher who has no major league success.

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 07:55 PM
It's not like he's trading for guys that are years away. Why in the hell would he trade Buehrle?
**** if he wants to kill salary and build for the future don't half ass it. Pull a ****ing Marlins. I wasn't pissed about Swisher or Vazquez, at the time. I saw it as getting rid of expensive parts that weren't needed. However adding Dye to this list, to me, is Kenny giving up on 09 possible 10, and looking to compete in 2011. So why the **** should we keep anyone who makes big dollars?

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-07-2008, 07:56 PM
I was all for trading Dye, and KW has done well getting young SP in return over the years (Danks and Floyd), so I'm all for this. I hope we got at least 1 more prospect though. Getting Bailey makes me a little bit more confident knowing we won't have Richard and Broadway in the rotation. Not that Bailey has a good track record.

oeo
12-07-2008, 07:56 PM
You say that like it's a sure thing. He's a failed prospect thus far.

It better be a sure thing if Kenny is trading one of the more productive outfielders in baseball for him. Kenny obviously feels confident, which is why I do.

Tragg
12-07-2008, 07:56 PM
Dye for Homer Bailey is an awfully light return.
It would be light if Bailey was still a top prospect.
Dye's a good hitter who is also a good teammate - I'm confident he can bring more than a tainted prospect.

oeo
12-07-2008, 07:59 PM
Dye for Homer Bailey is an awfully light return.
It would be light if Bailey was still a top prospect.
Dye's a good hitter who is also a good teammate - I'm confident he can bring more than a tainted prospect.

That isn't how Kenny Williams does business, though. He wants his guy, and is willing to overpay, rather than going after 2-3 guys he feels are of lesser value. Sometimes it bites him, sometimes it pays off.

BTW, I have to think if this is true, we're getting more than just Bailey. Nothing major league ready, but something else.

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 08:00 PM
You say that like it's a sure thing. He's a failed prospect thus far.

I don't like trading our 2nd best hitter for one pitcher who has no major league success.
Right now he is our best hitter. Power, average and driving in runs. I understand what we are getting has great potential but right now, ughhhh, I dont know.

35th and Shields
12-07-2008, 08:02 PM
I'll never fault Kenny for trading an older guy making a lot of money for a 22 year-old stud with tremendous stuff, regardless of the kids struggles because he was rushed. Hopefully we got something else back for trading a sure high-quality player in exchange for a ?, but there have been worse gambles taken.

Yeah I hope so too. I actually really like this trade as long as we sign an Abreu or some other bat to fill his spot because otherwise.....were going no where this year.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:02 PM
**** if he wants to kill salary and build for the future don't half ass it. Pull a ****ing Marlins. I wasn't pissed about Swisher or Vazquez, at the time. I saw it as getting rid of expensive parts that weren't needed. However adding Dye to this list, to me, is Kenny giving up on 09 possible 10, and looking to compete in 2011. So why the **** should we keep anyone who makes big dollars?

The Marlins were down for 5 years after their 1997 team (still are down after there 2003 team). The guys Kenny is acquiring are close to being major league ready. If he was trading them for guys that were 3+ years away, then I would be in favor of trading Buehrle. These guys are not that far away, though.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2008, 08:04 PM
what can we expect out of Bailey in 2009?

Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 08:04 PM
So, if this turns out to be true I wonder if they want to move Quentin to RF.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:04 PM
what can we expect out of Bailey in 2009?

Charlotte? :shrug:

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 08:05 PM
So, if this turns out to be true I wonder if they want to move Quentin to RF.

Most likely. He's a RF, you can tell by his arm. I think he played RF mostly when he was coming up in the Diamondbacks system too.

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 08:05 PM
Maybe i'm just not thinking rationally. I just don't really like this idea at all.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 08:06 PM
what can we expect out of Bailey in 2009?

IF true. The same we can expect from Marquez, Lillibridge, Viciedo, Flowers, etc. It remains to be seen.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:06 PM
So, if this turns out to be true I wonder if they want to move Quentin to RF.

I'm more interested in who else is going to be in our outfield. Please don't tell me Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson.

Corlose 15
12-07-2008, 08:06 PM
Let's take a second to relax here folks. Usually in these trades when the first report comes out you never hear the whole deal, you just hear the marquee pieces. I'm sure as more information comes out, if this is even true, more names will come out.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:07 PM
IF true. The same we can expect from Marquez, Lillibridge, Viciedo, Flowers, etc. It remains to be seen.

I think those two are 'ready', whether they are good or not remains to be seen.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:12 PM
I think those two are 'ready', whether they are good or not remains to be seen.

Marquez may come up with the big club, but I don't know if he's necessarily ready. Kenny's already said there are things he wants to change...those changes are going to take time. Likely some growing pains.

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 08:13 PM
Here's my question your the Reds do you truly believe you can compete next year? Does this deal make them better than the Cubs, Astros, Brewers and Cardinals? How about the Phils, Mets, Braves? This makes no sense on their end either.

Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 08:14 PM
I'm more interested in who else is going to be in our outfield. Please don't tell me Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson.

Maybe they want to move Viciedo to a corner and sign a stopgap or let Owens or Anderson play.

Tragg
12-07-2008, 08:14 PM
Yeah I hope so too. I actually really like this trade as long as we sign an Abreu or some other bat to fill his spot because otherwise.....were going no where this year.
Then we're stuck with 3 years of Abreu, whom I don't think is as good as Dye. at a higher salary.
That's why Dye has value - 2 years, at a reasonable 11 million.
A top prospect I could see; but a tainted one? Hard to believe that's the trade.

I think it's a good move for the Reds...they're an improving club, some decent pitching and needed a big bat. They don't want to be the Pirates.

CashMan
12-07-2008, 08:15 PM
Here's my question your the Reds do you truly believe you can compete next year? Does this deal make them better than the Cubs, Astros, Brewers and Cardinals? How about the Phils, Mets, Braves? This makes no sense on their end either.


Bigger name sells tickets.

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 08:16 PM
Bigger name sells tickets.
Ya but Dye isn't a seat filling name. If they wanted a seat filler they sign Manny. I'm sorry I don't buy that arguement.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:17 PM
Ya but Dye is seat filling name. If they wanted a seat filler they sign Manny. I'm sorry I don't buy that arguement.

They trade a failed prospect and get a great hitter in return. Why not?

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:18 PM
Ya but Dye is seat filling name. If they wanted a seat filler they sign Manny. I'm sorry I don't buy that arguement.

Oh yeah, I'm sure Manny would be great on a losing team. That would be a disaster with Manny being Manny.

They trade a failed prospect and get a great hitter in return. Why not?

22 years old and already labeled as a failure?

guillensdisciple
12-07-2008, 08:20 PM
There will be more to this trade, probably two quality prospects like Bailey and another "dark-horse" the sox will pick up.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:20 PM
22 years old and already labeled as a failure?

As far as the Reds are concerned, yes.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-07-2008, 08:21 PM
Marquez may come up with the big club, but I don't know if he's necessarily ready. Kenny's already said there are things he wants to change...those changes are going to take time. Likely some growing pains.

Marquez and Bailey in the rotation with Richard as the LOOGY taking Loagan's spot. That would be the most logical to me. Hopefully we can luck out a little.

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 08:22 PM
They trade a failed prospect and get a great hitter in return. Why not?
Kind of a young to a failure. AN I ask where is Cincy going? Where does Dye put them above the Cubs, Cards, Stros, Brewers, Braves, Phils and Mets?
Oh yeah, I'm sure Manny would be great on a losing team. That would be a disaster with Manny being Manny.



?
I'm not saying it would. That was just my arguement to the seat filling comment.

Gammons Peter
12-07-2008, 08:22 PM
I'd be shocked if that all we get for Dye

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:22 PM
Marquez and Bailey in the rotation with Richard as the LOOGY taking Loagan's spot. That would be the most logical to me. Hopefully we can luck out a little.

That sounds like a very weak back end to me. I hope we sign a veteran who can fill in, otherwise that is very iffy.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:23 PM
As far as the Reds are concerned, yes.

If all we're getting is Bailey (or maybe 1-2 lesser prospects, as well), then you're wrong. You think Kenny came up and asked for a straight swap of Dye and Bailey? No, he likely asked for more...so if we're not getting a lot back in return with Bailey, then they still feel he's worth something. If they felt he was a failure, wouldn't he just be a throw-in and not the marquee name?

I doubt they think he's failed at 22. No one with a clue would say that.

35th and Shields
12-07-2008, 08:24 PM
Ya but Dye isn't a seat filling name. If they wanted a seat filler they sign Manny. I'm sorry I don't buy that arguement.

Ok well first of all, not everyone can afford to sign manny and secondly this kind of move tells their fan base that they want to win and that tickets won't just be a be waste of money.

VenturaFan23
12-07-2008, 08:25 PM
As far as the Reds are concerned, yes.

Don't forget he was pitching for this guy last season.....

http://cincycoolness.com/images/baker%202.jpg

Oh and Floyd was considered a failure by the Phillies as well. I think this kid will be just as good, if not better.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:25 PM
If all we're getting is Bailey (or maybe 1-2 lesser prospects, as well), then you're wrong. You think Kenny came up and asked for a straight swap of Dye and Bailey? No, he likely asked for more...so if we're not getting a lot back in return with Bailey, then they still feel he's worth something.

I doubt they think he's failed at 22. No one with a clue would say that.

He's been awful when he has pitched for their big league club.

I see him as another Gavin Floyd, hopefully; a guy who is highly touted but doesn't produce for his initial team. Difference is, we didn't really give up much to get Gavin.

...
12-07-2008, 08:26 PM
**** if he wants to kill salary and build for the future don't half ass it. Pull a ****ing Marlins. I wasn't pissed about Swisher or Vazquez, at the time. I saw it as getting rid of expensive parts that weren't needed. However adding Dye to this list, to me, is Kenny giving up on 09 possible 10, and looking to compete in 2011. So why the **** should we keep anyone who makes big dollars?

Jesus Christ, It's the 7th of December.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:28 PM
He's been awful when he has pitched for their big league club.

I see him as another Gavin Floyd, hopefully; a guy who is highly touted but doesn't produce for his initial team. Difference is, we didn't really give up much to get Gavin.

At the time, people were going nuts that we traded Freddy for only Gio and Gavin. In hindsight it wasn't much, but it sure seemed like a lot at the time.

I really doubt they think he's a failure at 22.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:29 PM
At the time, people were going nuts that we traded Freddy for only Gio and Gavin. In hindsight it wasn't much, but it sure seemed like a lot at the time.

I really doubt they think he's a failure at 22.

If they don't, then why trade a for a 35-year old one year rental?

psyclonis
12-07-2008, 08:29 PM
weird trade... for both sides
:scratch:
I'm guessing Konerko (hopefully not Jenks) is next. (after tex signs)

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 08:30 PM
What would it take to land Hermida of the Marlins? I know he was floated around the trade deadline last season.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:31 PM
What would it take to land Hermida of the Marlins? I know he was floated around the trade deadline last season.

So we're collecting underachieving youngsters now?

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 08:31 PM
The Jake Peavy to White Sox blockbuster is even closer.

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:32 PM
If they don't, then why trade a for a 35-year old one year rental?

First, there's a mutual option for 2010, so he's not necessarily a rental.

Second, as I explained before (it was after an edit, though)...if they thought Bailey was junk, he wouldn't be the marquee name in the deal. Do you think Kenny went to the Reds asking for a straight swap (or something close to it)? Doubt it. They likely had to talk him down.

schmitty9800
12-07-2008, 08:33 PM
Rumor is Encarnacion might be in on the deal. I'd think we'd have to pay half of Dye's salary for that to happen, but who knows.

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:33 PM
First, there's a mutual option for 2010, so he's not necessarily a rental.

Second, as I explained before (it was after an edit, though)...if they thought Bailey was junk, he wouldn't be the marquee name in the deal.

Why not? If you have someone that hasn't produced for you and you can get a very good outfielder for him, what difference does that make?

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 08:34 PM
Rumor is Encarnacion might be in on the deal.
Where did you hear that one?

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:34 PM
Rumor is Encarnacion might be in on the deal.

Where'd you hear that?

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 08:35 PM
So we're collecting underachieving youngsters now?

Personally I love this kid, he is 24 and two years ago he went .296/.369 with 18 homers. Dropped to .249/.323 last season, but hit 17 homers.

Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Cowley updates, Dye's agent hasn't heard anything but KW isn't saying anything either.

http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/1044354168

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Why not? If you have someone that hasn't produced for you and you can get a very good outfielder for him, what difference does that make?

Where are you going with this? :scratch:

Your last post implied that it made no sense for the Reds to go after a 35-year-old "rental." Now it makes sense?

getonbckthr
12-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Edwin Encarnacion? He is a third basemen. Why would we want him when we have Fields and Viciedo and to a lesser extent Betemit?

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:39 PM
Where are you going with this? :scratch:

Your last post implied that it made no sense for the Reds to go after a 35-year-old "rental." Now it makes sense?

You said that if the Reds thought Bailey was junk, then he wouldn't be the marquee name in a deal. I don't see what their view of the guy would matter, if he is highly coveted elsewhere.

I just don't see how this trades makes sense for either team. The Sox are a yearly contender for their division, and yet just traded away their 2nd best hitter. The Reds are rebuilding, and yet traded away a young, promising [though he hasn't shown anything yet in the majors] pitcher for an aging outfielder.

CashMan
12-07-2008, 08:40 PM
Edwin Encarnacion? He is a third basemen. Why would we want him when we have Fields and Viciedo and to a lesser extent Betemit?


He figures, one of the four has to be something?

oeo
12-07-2008, 08:40 PM
You said that if the Reds thought Bailey was junk, then he wouldn't be the marquee name in a deal. I don't see what their view of the guy would matter, if he is highly coveted elsewhere.

I also said that Kenny likely came in with bigger things in mind and the Reds had to talk him down.

Flight #24
12-07-2008, 08:41 PM
If it's Dye for Encarnacion and Bailey - IMO that's a pretty good deal for the Sox. Let's them move Fields to LF, gives Viciedo some time to play in in minors and then after '09, Konerko moves to DH, Fields to 1B, and Viciedo to LF (or you can slot in Encarnacion/Fields/Viciedo at 3B/LF/1B depending on how they can field those positions).

Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 08:43 PM
There has to be something to this if KW isn't denying it right out.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 08:44 PM
If it's Dye for Encarnacion and Bailey - IMO that's a pretty good deal for the Sox. Let's them move Fields to LF, gives Viciedo some time to play in in minors and then after '09, Konerko moves to DH, Fields to 1B, and Viciedo to LF (or you can slot in Encarnacion/Fields/Viciedo at 3B/LF/1B depending on how they can field those positions).

Not happening.

Craig Grebeck
12-07-2008, 08:45 PM
I'll take the time to note that Encarnacion is below-below-average at 3rd.

FedEx227
12-07-2008, 08:46 PM
We better hope TCQ wasn't have a fluke season, we are putting a LOT of stock into both him and Ramirez.

ChiSox89
12-07-2008, 08:46 PM
if edwin encarnacion is in this rumored deal, i would image that fields would be in a trade for an outfielder, possibly a leadoff man. i can't see them moving fields to the outfield.

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 08:47 PM
I'll take the time to note that Encarnacion is below-below-average at 3rd.

Craig, what other prospects do you think would reasonably be in this deal as well, I have no idea about anyone else in their system, do you?

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:47 PM
I'll take the time to note that Encarnacion is below-below-average at 3rd.

And yet is a decent power hitter. Sounds like Fields!

rdwj
12-07-2008, 08:47 PM
I'll take the time to note that Encarnacion is below-below-average at 3rd.

That's sill better than Fields

pmck003
12-07-2008, 08:48 PM
I'll take the time to note that Encarnacion is below-below-average at 3rd.

I was gonna say that Encarnacion would make it a good deal, but if he is bad in the field it seems more like a fair deal.

FedEx227
12-07-2008, 08:49 PM
He's a very slight upgrade defensively over Fields, but not by much.

...
12-07-2008, 08:50 PM
Could Encarnacion move to LF?

KRS1
12-07-2008, 08:50 PM
That's sill better than Fields

Trust me, it isn't. Edwin is an absolute butcher boy at the hot corner.

Gammons Peter
12-07-2008, 08:50 PM
We better hope TCQ wasn't have a fluke season, we are putting a LOT of stock into both him and Ramirez.


no we are not, we are giving up this year. But watch out for the Sox in 2011...YEAH

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-07-2008, 08:50 PM
That sounds like a very weak back end to me. I hope we sign a veteran who can fill in, otherwise that is very iffy.

I'm not saying it is, I agree with you. I don't see the Sox spending money on a veteran starter though. I think Marquez/Bailey is way stronger than Richard/Broadway. Maybe if one of the two can be decent until July and hopefully Contreras can come back. Not that he would be any better.

Daver
12-07-2008, 08:50 PM
If it's Dye for Encarnacion and Bailey - IMO that's a pretty good deal for the Sox. Let's them move Fields to LF

Perhaps you missed the Fields in left experiment from 2006?

The one where the best chance he had catching the ball was if it hit him?

KRS1
12-07-2008, 08:51 PM
He's a very slight upgrade defensively over Fields, but not by much.

I'm just going to say, no way. Josh is pretty awful at times, but Edwin is atrocious.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 08:52 PM
no we are not, we are giving up this year. But watch out for the Sox in 2011...YEAH

It's Dec 7, for ****s sake.

FedEx227
12-07-2008, 08:55 PM
It's Dec 7, for ****s sake.

Exactly, I'm not about to say we're giving up because up until this point I've loved all the trades we made, but this Dye one I've never been real fond of, even as it was still a rumor. I like Bailey, but I still think Dye can be a solid contributor to this team, without him our lineup starts looking a little weak especially if Konerko doesn't bounce back.

cards press box
12-07-2008, 08:55 PM
If the Sox do trade Dye to Cincy, I assume that they will move Quentin over to RF. That would give the Sox the opportunity (and a slot) to acquire a LF who could lead off. Is David DeJesus on the trading block? DeJesus is only a couple of years away from arbitration and, with the Crisp trade, the Royals now have a surplus of outfielders.

I know a lot of posters don't like him but Juan Pierre could be a LF, too, and lead off for the Sox. I cannot imagine the Sox acquiring Pierre unless the Dodgers picked up a substantial portion of Pierre's remaining salary.

Craig Grebeck
12-07-2008, 08:56 PM
Craig, what other prospects do you think would reasonably be in this deal as well, I have no idea about anyone else in their system, do you?
I'd guess Chris Dickerson. (http://firstinning.com/players/Chris-Dickerson-a/) Although, being 26, he's at a very make or break point in his career.

JohnTucker0814
12-07-2008, 08:56 PM
I love this trade... I'm all for dropping Dye, Konerko, Thome... aren't we all sick of having the station to station when these guys don't hit HR's? I'd like to see a team that can score from 1st on a double... score from 2nd on a BASEHIT! God forbit any of these guys could do that.

I'm ready for a change and if that means we struggle next year, i'll be there to support them. I know that Kenny is not doing what Florida does and put this team in the dumps for 4-5 years. I know he is dedicated to winning, and if getting this team younger and faster means that we have to sacrafice 1 year... I'm okay with that!

sunofgold
12-07-2008, 08:57 PM
Corner OF. probably LF. And he will be given the chance to make the club out of spring training like Alexei. We did spend some money and on Viciedo and not to play in Charlotte.

LF - Viciedo (on the job training)
CF - Owens/Anderson...Danks not too far off
RF- Quentin

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 08:57 PM
I'd guess Chris Dickerson. (http://firstinning.com/players/Chris-Dickerson-a/) Although, being 26, he's at a very make or break point in his career.

Isn't he one of their best prospects overall? I wouldn't be expecting to get that in return for Dye.

Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 08:58 PM
A source familiar with the talks are shooting this down.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081207-chicago-white-sox-winter-meetings,0,7672373.story

JohnTucker0814
12-07-2008, 08:58 PM
Now we need to ship Konerko to LA and get a good return... Figgins, Kendrick...

Then ship whatever it takes to Milwaukee... Jenks, Poreda, etc... get Fielder!

CHIsoxNation
12-07-2008, 08:59 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already, but apparently the Sox have shot down this rumor tonight along with a rumor of Jenks going to the Mets.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081207-chicago-white-sox-winter-meetings,0,7672373.story

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 09:00 PM
Isn't he one of their best prospects overall? I wouldn't be expecting to get that in return for Dye.

From what I just read he was on the cusp of cracking the Reds' top 10 last year. So this season would be the first time he has made the list and that sounds like the right return on Dye to me.


http://www.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081011&content_id=3611614&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

he 2003 16th-rounder out of Nevada was one of our sleeper "Top 10" picks for 2008 because of his amazing tools and talent, if he could just get a shot at a job. Well, once Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn were dealt he did, and responded beyond expectations, hitting .304 with six homers and 15 RBIs in 31 games with the Reds before his season ended in mid-September with an ankle injury that required minor surgery. After hitting .287 with 11 homers, 53 RBIs and 26 steals in 97 games at Louisville, look for Dickerson to be in the big-league outfield equation in '09.

rdwj
12-07-2008, 09:00 PM
Now we need to ship Konerko to LA and get a good return... Figgins, Kendrick...

Then ship whatever it takes to Milwaukee... Jenks, Poreda, etc... get Fielder!

There is no way the Brewers move Fielder

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 09:01 PM
A source familiar with the talks are shooting this down.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081207-chicago-white-sox-winter-meetings,0,7672373.story

Interesting in this story, it says Kenny was seeking more prospects than just Bailey.

guillensdisciple
12-07-2008, 09:02 PM
I love this trade... I'm all for dropping Dye, Konerko, Thome... aren't we all sick of having the station to station when these guys don't hit HR's? I'd like to see a team that can score from 1st on a double... score from 2nd on a BASEHIT! God forbit any of these guys could do that.

I'm ready for a change and if that means we struggle next year, i'll be there to support them. I know that Kenny is not doing what Florida does and put this team in the dumps for 4-5 years. I know he is dedicated to winning, and if getting this team younger and faster means that we have to sacrafice 1 year... I'm okay with that!

My sentiments exactly, and by far the best outlook on things.

Come on guys, Kenny always said he was commited to winning, why would that change. The guy is probably the hungriest gm out there in terms of wanting to win a championship. He just doesn't want to be trapped by all these aging, slow- home run hitters. The money freed up also gives him room to add another free agent either this year or next year, and I have a feeling Kenny will be looking for a marquee name out there.

CashMan
12-07-2008, 09:02 PM
Now we need to ship Konerko to LA and get a good return... Figgins, Kendrick...

Then ship whatever it takes to Milwaukee... Jenks, Poreda, etc... get Fielder!


Then sign Manny and Tex. And CC!

whitem0nkey
12-07-2008, 09:03 PM
If the Sox do trade Dye to Cincy, I assume that they will move Quentin over to RF. That would give the Sox the opportunity (and a slot) to acquire a LF who could lead off. Is David DeJesus on the trading block? DeJesus is only a couple of years away from arbitration and, with the Crisp trade, the Royals now have a surplus of outfielders.

I know a lot of posters don't like him but Juan Pierre could be a LF, too, and lead off for the Sox. I cannot imagine the Sox acquiring Pierre unless the Dodgers picked up a substantial portion of Pierre's remaining salary.

I think the royals signed someone who would make dejesus easier to sign

Craig Grebeck
12-07-2008, 09:04 PM
There is no way the Brewers move Fielder
It's more likely than the Angels moving Kendrick.

Flight #24
12-07-2008, 09:05 PM
Perhaps you missed the Fields in left experiment from 2006?

The one where the best chance he had catching the ball was if it hit him?

True. So maybe it leaves them with 3 guys to slot between 2 slots this year (Fields/Encarnacion/Viciedo for LF/3B) and then they hopefully think enough of the 3d to move someone to 1B after '09.

From what I've heard of Encarnacion, he sounds kind of like an MLB version of Fields - poor D, solid bat. He's hit for a decent average in 2 of his 3 years and put up 26HR's last year. He's also supposedly been rumored to move to LF because of subpar D at 3B.

schmitty9800
12-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Where'd you hear that?
Mentioned on a forum. Obviously not firm or anything, but this is WTS.

Craig Grebeck
12-07-2008, 09:10 PM
Mentioned on a forum. Obviously not firm or anything, but this is WTS.
link?

guillensdisciple
12-07-2008, 09:11 PM
This trade is being denied, I don't know why we are speculating any further.

kruzer31
12-07-2008, 09:12 PM
Dye for Baily

DirtySox
12-07-2008, 09:13 PM
Nope.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081207-chicago-white-sox-winter-meetings,0,7672373.story

GoGoCrede
12-07-2008, 09:13 PM
This trade is being denied, I don't know why we are speculating any further.

Cowley's changed his tune on his Twitter as well.

http://twitter.com/cst_sox

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 09:14 PM
:happybday:bandance::gosox::happyguy::party: Is this official????????

MHOUSE
12-07-2008, 09:14 PM
I was just gonna post this, sounds like a done deal. The comments after this article (http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html) in the Dayton Daily News sound like Bailey has an attitude problem?

BigP50
12-07-2008, 09:14 PM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html

jabrch
12-07-2008, 09:16 PM
This trade is being denied, I don't know why we are speculating any further.

Its a good excuse to complain...

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 09:16 PM
Already in WTS where it belongs (for now at least).

GoGoCrede
12-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Its a good excuse to complain...

And put off studying...

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Its a good excuse to complain...

Well now I want to complain that KW can't get this deal done!

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Its a good excuse to complain...

And put off studying...

Offseason traditions!

DSpivack
12-07-2008, 09:18 PM
Well now I want to complain that KW can't get this deal done!

:rolling:

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 09:18 PM
I'll take the time to note that Encarnacion is below-below-average at 3rd.
And that's being kind.

soxfanreggie
12-07-2008, 09:19 PM
Just got the text message from ESPN. If this really is true, I really hope Bailey is just the centerpiece to this deal and that there are other prospects involved. :dunno:

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 09:21 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already, but apparently the Sox have shot down this rumor tonight along with a rumor of Jenks going to the Mets.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081207-chicago-white-sox-winter-meetings,0,7672373.story
So it looks like if it does go through, the Sox would kick in a percentage of Dye's salary and the Reds would throw in another player or two.

BigP50
12-07-2008, 09:21 PM
I hate when this happens

someone says a deal is about to go down and then it gets shot down, just get a freakin deal done!

Tragg
12-07-2008, 09:22 PM
Perhaps you missed the Fields in left experiment from 2006?


2007
The year of the Sox

MHOUSE
12-07-2008, 09:25 PM
Just got the text message from ESPN. If this really is true, I really hope Bailey is just the centerpiece to this deal and that there are other prospects involved. :dunno:

Me too, I like the thought of giving Bailey a change of scenery and Coop's guidance, but is he it? I guess if the Reds are taking all of JD's salary then it might be a slim return.

Tragg
12-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Me too, I like the thought of giving Bailey a change of scenery and Coop's guidance, but is he it? I guess if the Reds are taking all of JD's salary then it might be a slim return.
Dye's salary just isn't that big considering his production. It's a lot less than Abreu will get.
I still say we could get more than a tainted prospect for him.

And then, who do we put in LF/RF? TCQ in right, and then an Ozzie daily double for LF and CF: DeWayne Wise and Jerry Owens

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Well...I would hope we would get more than just Bailey in return for Dye...but, it sounds like this isn't going through. There is work to do in the mean time.

soxfanreggie
12-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Well MHouse, it means we'd free up another $11 million-maybe for a big FA acquisition-but I'm going to have to say that I don't like this deal if it's these two straight up. While I don't like Dye's running on the basepaths...seemingly trotting everything out...he has been a productive slugger for us. Maybe if they threw in a prospect or two who wasn't a middle infielder I'd feel more comfortable with this potential deal.

I would hope some FA signing was in order though because of the huge ticket increase they're pushing across. Not that completely spurs the other, but why push across a huge increase in ticket costs then immediately start dumping payroll.

schmitty9800
12-07-2008, 09:43 PM
link?
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3022458&pagenumber=16#post353293022

Seems like KW either killed it or is holding out for another player (Dickerson? Encarcinon?)

I'd think he'd be willing to pick up 5-6M or Dye's salary if we got a cost-controlled player in return.

RockJock07
12-07-2008, 09:51 PM
There is no way the Brewers move Fielder

Prince is a D-bag, no thanks

Sockinchisox
12-07-2008, 09:52 PM
Jocketty is denying this now, so it doesn't sound like anything is close at all.

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/jocketty_denies_dyebailey_rumo.html

sox1970
12-07-2008, 09:52 PM
Reds are shooting it down too.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3ac3e801e6-bcc1-4264-83a4-0a80fefc87b9&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

nccwsfan
12-07-2008, 09:54 PM
If all we're getting is Bailey (or maybe 1-2 lesser prospects, as well), then you're wrong. You think Kenny came up and asked for a straight swap of Dye and Bailey? No, he likely asked for more...so if we're not getting a lot back in return with Bailey, then they still feel he's worth something. If they felt he was a failure, wouldn't he just be a throw-in and not the marquee name?

I doubt they think he's failed at 22. No one with a clue would say that.

He's hardly a failed prospect, but yes he hasn't lived up to the hype from the past couple of years. This smells of a Gavin Floyd-esque reclamation project for the Cooper and the CWS. I agree with everyone else- it would be nice if this is more than a 1 for 1 trade, but give KW credit for getting some good young talent infused into the organization.

thomas35forever
12-07-2008, 09:55 PM
I was just gonna post this, sounds like a done deal. The comments after this article (http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html) in the Dayton Daily News sound like Bailey has an attitude problem?
Coop'll fix him.

gr8mexico
12-07-2008, 09:59 PM
Trade me already!!! I look good in Red
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__luJvdP3cb0/STyImdaLSMI/AAAAAAAAAUU/z3IpUzGRoHM/s320/DyeCincinnatiReds.jpg

sunofgold
12-07-2008, 10:00 PM
You better be sure that this is a done deal before reporting something like this. It makes fans like us act crazy. hahaha!

Scottiehaswheels
12-07-2008, 10:11 PM
Anyone remember Ewokpelts? HAHAHHA This quote in the comments section of the link on the first post is hilarious...

By Gene "Ewokpelts" Kelly (ewokpelts@aol.com)
December 7, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this (http://www.middletownjournal.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/comments/entries/2008/12/07/120708spredsweb.html#comment-214300303)
Bearded, Rubenesque MWM, 28, into fantasy graphic novels, limited edition baseball cards, and internet discount coupon codes, ISO his Princess Leia. Hook a tubby brotha up.

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 10:12 PM
Reds are shooting it down too.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3ac3e801e6-bcc1-4264-83a4-0a80fefc87b9&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com
LOL! Miller is quoted as saying "We haven't talked to the White Sox since we got here (Las Vegas)." How long have they been there, a half a day??? :cool:

Jocketty's quote was a little more of a denial however. He said the haven't had talks with the Sox since before Thanksgiving.

CubsfansareDRUNK
12-07-2008, 10:12 PM
Trade me already!!! I look good in Red
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__luJvdP3cb0/STyImdaLSMI/AAAAAAAAAUU/z3IpUzGRoHM/s320/DyeCincinnatiReds.jpg

:rolling::rolling:

Tragg
12-07-2008, 10:21 PM
I'm gonna stop reading/listening to all of this stuff and just wait for Bruce Levine to report it.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:26 PM
I'm ready to bust out the old VHS of the movie Major League.

That's what Spring Training is going to look for us.

"Who are these guys?"

ViPeRx007
12-07-2008, 10:29 PM
I'm not sure I really like how quickly Kenny's getting rid of guys. It seems like he's just jumping on the first offer he hears. Have some fun, play the field and listen to everybody at the Winter Meetings, man! If you go by Keith Law's rankings Dye is 2nd next to Peavy in big trade chips this Winter. You know that a trade for Peavy will require a haul. Dye won't equal him, but you'd think he could get us more than just Homer Bailey.

I hope this doesn't come to fruition unless the Red's are including 1 or 2 of their good prospects along with Bailey.

Lukin13
12-07-2008, 10:29 PM
Please edit the title, I have received six seperate texts from people calling this a done deal... two from Cub fans who have referenced the words "fire" and "sale" in the same sentence.

BainesHOF
12-07-2008, 10:32 PM
Quentin is most definitely not a right fielder.

At best, Quentin is a left fielder.

KRS1
12-07-2008, 10:35 PM
Quentin is most definitely not a right fielder.

At best, Quentin is a left fielder.

Coulda fooled me based on the fact that he played it his entire AZ pro career. Much better than he did LF with us every time I saw him.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:35 PM
Quentin is most definitely not a right fielder.

At best, Quentin is a left fielder.


And he is a bad LF too. Very weak arm to go with it.

Saw plenty bad breaks and bad routes live at the Cell this year.

KRS1
12-07-2008, 10:38 PM
And he is a bad LF too. Very weak arm to go with it.

Saw plenty bad breaks and bad routes live at the Cell this year.

Which, as I said in a thread during the season, could very well be based on the fact that he has been almost exclusively a RF his entire career prior.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 10:40 PM
Quentin is most definitely not a right fielder.

At best, Quentin is a left fielder.

:scratch:

I'm curious what makes you say this.

He's play 119 games in RF (.988 FP) so far in his major league career vs. 135 in LF (.971 FP)

I believe he played majority of his time in the minors as a RF, not positive though. He certainly has a right fielders arm too.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:40 PM
Which, as I said in a thread during the season, could very well be based on the fact that he has been almost exclusively a RF his entire career prior.


Could be, but his ARM is nowhere close to being RF material. Many people got fooled by the one big throw he made early in the year at Det where he threw someone out at 1B.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:41 PM
:scratch:

I'm curious what makes you say this.

He's play 119 games in RF (.988 FP) so far in his major league career vs. 135 in LF (.971 FP)

I believe he played majority of his time in the minors as a RF, not positive though. He certainly has a right fielders arm too.


Doesn't Carlos Lee have like a 1.000 FP as an OF?

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 10:42 PM
And he is a bad LF too. Very weak arm to go with it.

Saw plenty bad breaks and bad routes live at the Cell this year.

You gotta be joking here. Quentin has a well above average arm. I seem to remember him doubling off Renteria when he went half way to second on a fly ball, and I remember him throwing out a Rays baserunner at home. "Very weak arm" my ass.

KRS1
12-07-2008, 10:43 PM
Could be, but his ARM is nowhere close to being RF material. Many people got fooled by the one big throw he made early in the year at Det where he threw someone out at 1B.

Meh. It used to be a gun, but it certainly isn't since his surgery. It's really not as horrible as most make it out to be. It's passable at worst out there.

hi im skot
12-07-2008, 10:43 PM
FWIW:

http://soxmachine.com/blogs/soxmachine/archive/2008/12/07/14632.aspx

Lukin13
12-07-2008, 10:44 PM
And he is a bad LF too. Very weak arm to go with it.


I will go as far as to say that TCQ has one of the better arms of all left fielders in baseball.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:47 PM
You gotta be joking here. Quentin has a well above average arm. I seem to remember him doubling off Renteria when he went half way to second on a fly ball, and I remember him throwing out a Rays baserunner at home. "Very weak arm" my ass.


Hang your hat on 2 plays ..... OK. :rolleyes:

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 10:51 PM
Meh. It used to be a gun, but it certainly isn't since his surgery. It's really not as horrible as most make it out to be. It's passable at worst out there.
His surgery was on his left -- non-throwing -- shoulder. :scratch:

Zisk77
12-07-2008, 10:52 PM
Hang your hat on 2 plays ..... OK. :rolleyes:


Ok, where has he shown to have a poor arm? i've seen him be inaccurate but not poor.

johnnyg83
12-07-2008, 10:53 PM
Hang your counterpoint on what? Time of the month?

I hope we don't trade Dye for Bailey ... Dye's been one of my favorite players and the way he handles himself on and off the field make me proud that he's on our team.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Ok, where has he shown to have a poor arm? i've seen him be inaccurate but not poor.

I can't think of any times where Quentin has shown to have a "weak" arm. I don't remember too many teams running on him either because he had an above average arm. If Carlos Quentin's arm is "very weak" then what the hell was Scott Podsednik's?

KRS1
12-07-2008, 10:57 PM
His surgery was on his left -- non-throwing -- shoulder. :scratch:

He had elbow surgery on his right arm in 03, and unlike some people the strength never returned fully.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:57 PM
Ok, where has he shown to have a poor arm? i've seen him be inaccurate but not poor.


Nevermind, I will rest my arguement.

This is the same board that hyped up Aaron Rowand as being the second coming of Willie Mays with the glove in CF.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 10:59 PM
I can't think of any times where Quentin has shown to have a "weak" arm. I don't remember too many teams running on him either because he had an above average arm. If Carlos Quentin's arm is "very weak" then what the hell was Scott Podsednik's?


Carlos Quentin has too weak of an arm to be a RF, that's all I'm saying.

His arm is just good enought to play LF.

Lukin13
12-07-2008, 10:59 PM
Hang your hat on 2 plays ..... OK. :rolleyes:

You wanted him to reference and type out twenty indiviudual instances when Quentin impressed with his arm? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

hi im skot
12-07-2008, 11:01 PM
This is the same board that hyped up Aaron Rowand as being the second coming of Willie Mays with the glove in CF.


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/dwight.gif

Daver
12-07-2008, 11:01 PM
Nevermind, I will rest my arguement.

This is the same board that hyped up Aaron Rowand as being the second coming of Willie Mays with the glove in CF.

What banned username did you use during the Rowand misplaced in CF years?

The members of the band tend to return like a plague of locusts.

johnnyg83
12-07-2008, 11:04 PM
Carlos Quentin has too weak of an arm to be a RF, that's all I'm saying.

His arm is just good enought to play LF.

Horseapples.

I don't ever remember being impressed by Lee, Posednik or Bell 's arm ... I do remember being impressed by TCQ.

DickAllen72
12-07-2008, 11:05 PM
He had elbow surgery on his right arm in 03, and unlike some people the strength never returned fully.
I didn't know about the '03 surgery.

Quentin's arm is somewhat of an enigma to me. When they first got him I read that he had a "plus arm" for a RFer. Then in ST it looked like his arm was pretty weak. But during the regular season he made a couple of great throws, a couple of not-so-good ones, but mostly it seemed as if his arm was not an issue either way.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 11:08 PM
What banned username did you use during the Rowand misplaced in CF years?

The members of the band tend to return like a plague of locusts.


Just last year there was the crying about why we ever traded Rowand for Thome and the whole arguement about his defense and why we should have re-signed him last offseason.

The same stuff I hear from the "Johnny Bandwagon" guys at the stadium always bitching on why we shouldn't have let the guy go.

LoveYourSuit
12-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Horseapples.

I don't ever remember being impressed by Lee, Posednik or Bell 's arm ... I do remember being impressed by TCQ.

Are you serious?

You were also impressed by his reads off the bat?

Wow, forget RF. Might as well stop searching for our everyday CF. Quentin is the guy.

johnnyg83
12-07-2008, 11:14 PM
Are you serious?

You were also impressed by his reads off the bat?

Wow, forget RF. Might as well stop searching for our everyday CF. Quentin is the guy.

I was talking about his arm and how you claimed that it was barely sufficient for LF. Then I brought up the last few LFs of consequence and you shifted to poor reads ... you must be dizzy from your spinnin'.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2008, 11:14 PM
Are you serious?

You were also impressed by his reads off the bat?

Wow, forget RF. Might as well stop searching for our everyday CF. Quentin is the guy.
Quentin at times looked lost in LF, but he still has a hell of an arm.

DumpJerry
12-07-2008, 11:25 PM
I guess this isn't a good time to mention how I heard Dye was traded for Cantu.

Did you know the Sox were looking at Cantu? Has this been discussed here at all? What do guys think of Cantu?

Can Cantu do what others can't do?

Scottiehaswheels
12-07-2008, 11:26 PM
I guess this isn't a good time to mention how I heard Dye was traded for Cantu.

Did you know the Sox were looking at Cantu? Has this been discussed here at all? What do guys think of Cantu?

Can Cantu do what others can't do?:D:I beat you to this like 6 hours ago.

guillensdisciple
12-07-2008, 11:28 PM
Hang your counterpoint on what? Time of the month?

I hope we don't trade Dye for Bailey ... Dye's been one of my favorite players and the way he handles himself on and off the field make me proud that he's on our team.

You are absolutely right, I wish the baseball world was full of up- standing guys like Dye. However, our repsect for Dye doesn't alienate the fact that the White Sox NEED to get younger. No matter what you say, Dye slowed us down, yes he hit and produced numbers, but so did Thome, and Konerko and they too will be gone sooner then later. No matter how bad it feels to think that the White Sox have given up on next season (which by no means of the imagination they have even tried), the fact remains that there is NO way that the White Sox would have won a championship with the team they put on the field last year. That division wasn't ours for the taking, too many things went our way, and the flaws caused by a home-run hitting, aged, and extremely slow team were evident.

Unfortunately, Jermaine was part of the problem, not the solution.
It is time to look ahead, plus with the core group of players, we will maintain in contention for at least the Division all while easing top tier talent into baseball.

Then, if all works out, you might have a dynasty on your hands.

DumpJerry
12-07-2008, 11:28 PM
:D:I beat you to this like 6 hours ago.
Well then, it's been a whole six hours since it was discussed. WAYYYY too much time to not talk about Cantu. Did you know that Cantu is a sure-fire First Ballot guy?

Soxman219
12-07-2008, 11:30 PM
Per Sportscenter.

Scottiehaswheels
12-07-2008, 11:31 PM
Well then, it's been a whole six hours since it was discussed. WAYYYY too much time to not talk about Cantu. Did you know that Cantu is a sure-fire First Ballot guy?Grebeck's head will look like the pinwheels at the park when he reads this. :smile:

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 11:32 PM
.....

Soxman219
12-07-2008, 11:33 PM
Official: Dye to Reds!

Per Sportscenter.:o:

GoGoCrede
12-07-2008, 11:33 PM
So which is it? I'm getting whiplash.

BNLSox
12-07-2008, 11:34 PM
In the closing of Sportscenter ESPN reported that the Dye for Bailey trade was done. This was at 9:30pm my time (11:30 central). They may have just been following the rumor chain but ESPN broadcasts do not typically report rumors though they do always feature a lot of garbage.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 11:34 PM
Why do I have to be hearing this **** the day before finals start?!?!

Soxman219
12-07-2008, 11:34 PM
Sportscenter said JD for Bailey.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:34 PM
I heard Jo-Jo Reyes is in the deal....

GoGoCrede
12-07-2008, 11:35 PM
Why do I have to be hearing this **** the day before finals start?!?!

AMEN. My worst final is tomorrow, too, but I'm all caught up in this. Sox trades are so much more interesting than the subjunctive.

guillensdisciple
12-07-2008, 11:35 PM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/dwight.gif

I just laughed for a good two minutes while staring at that. Awesome!

Are you serious?

You were also impressed by his reads off the bat?

Wow, forget RF. Might as well stop searching for our everyday CF. Quentin is the guy.

The guys original position is Right Field, if you play a position your whole life and suddenly have to change , you might now look as good as you are supposed to be.

Either in left or in right, I expect Quentin's fielding to get better.

HawkDJ
12-07-2008, 11:36 PM
Well that is odd. SportsCenter reporting it but espn.com not?

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 11:36 PM
Sportscenter said JD for Bailey.

I'm calling BS or Sportscenter hasn't gotten the update that both teams denied oooor you misheard and they were mentioning the possibility. I'm watching ESN right now and am not seeing anything.

hi im skot
12-07-2008, 11:36 PM
It's not on the Sox main site. I hesitate to call it "official."

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:36 PM
AMEN. My worst final is tomorrow, too, but I'm all caught up in this. Sox trades are so much more interesting than the subjunctive.

Spanish final? :D:

StillMissOzzie
12-07-2008, 11:37 PM
I just caught this in the SportsCenter fade-out at 11:30pm, too. JD for the Reds' Homer Bailey, 0-6 with a 7.93 ERA. :o:
That's all that KW can get for the 2005 WS MVP? Smacks of a flat-out salary dump to me unless there's more to the story... a LOT more.

SMO
:angry:

guillensdisciple
12-07-2008, 11:38 PM
Official: Dye to Reds!

Per Sportscenter.:o:

Not on the ESPN website, I still don't see how we only got Bailey in return.

GoGoCrede
12-07-2008, 11:38 PM
Spanish final? :D:

Yep. I'm a fluent speaker in real life, but I just cannot write it to save my life, which is what this class is all about. 8 hours spent on trying to learn the pluperfect subjunctive, past perfect, present perfect....:whiner: And all I can think about is this possible Dye trade.

DumpJerry
12-07-2008, 11:39 PM
In the closing of Sportscenter ESPN reported that the Dye for Bailey trade was done. This was at 9:30pm my time (11:30 central). They may have just been following the rumor chain but ESPN broadcasts do not typically report rumors though they do always feature a lot of garbage.
Nothing (yet) on ESPN's website.

hi im skot
12-07-2008, 11:39 PM
http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/jocketty_denies_dyebailey_rumo.html

soltrain21
12-07-2008, 11:39 PM
I just caught this in the SportsCenter fade-out at 11:30pm, too. JD for the Reds' Homer Bailey, 0-6 with a 7.93 ERA. :o:
That's all that KW can get for the 2005 WS MVP? Smacks of a flat-out salary dump to me unless there's more to the story... a LOT more.

SMO
:angry:

While he is still putting up good numbers - bringing up what he did in 2005 is completely irrelevant.

Soxman219
12-07-2008, 11:39 PM
I'm calling BS or Sportscenter hasn't gotten the update that both teams denied oooor you misheard and they were mentioning the possibility. I'm watching ESN right now and am not seeing anything.


Near the end of the first Sportscenter, like about 11:30, they said Dye got traded to the Reds. It'll probably take a while for it to show because of the NFL and the BCS stuff.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2008, 11:39 PM
I was just on ESPN News and the update had the Reds denying the report. So yeah nothing official.

johnnyg83
12-07-2008, 11:40 PM
M: Mi gato es triste.

R: No, mi gato esta triste.

M: No, mi gato es siempre triste.

F4L
12-07-2008, 11:41 PM
I can't sleep not knowing what's going on. We NEED more than Bailey. I love Bailey, but please, cmon. Not some bs like Ryan Freel, or Jerry Hairston. Dickerson please!

Noneck
12-07-2008, 11:42 PM
I just caught this in the SportsCenter fade-out at 11:30pm, too. JD for the Reds' Homer Bailey, 0-6 with a 7.93 ERA. :o:
That's all that KW can get for the 2005 WS MVP? Smacks of a flat-out salary dump to me unless there's more to the story... a LOT more.

SMO
:angry:

If this happens as stated, it will be amusing to see how the company men here will explain how its not a salary dump.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:45 PM
Per Sportscenter.

Official: Dye to Reds!

Per Sportscenter.:o:

Sportscenter said JD for Bailey.

3 posts in 4 mins saying the same thing? Really?

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:46 PM
I can't sleep not knowing what's going on. We NEED more than Bailey. I love Bailey, but please, cmon. Not some bs like Ryan Freel, or Jerry Hairston. Dickerson please!

He's a FA.

schmitty9800
12-07-2008, 11:46 PM
I just caught this in the SportsCenter fade-out at 11:30pm, too. JD for the Reds' Homer Bailey, 0-6 with a 7.93 ERA. :o:
That's all that KW can get for the 2005 WS MVP? Smacks of a flat-out salary dump to me unless there's more to the story... a LOT more.

SMO
:angry:
He's 22. Danks was 6-13 with a 5.50 ERA and 1.54 WHIP when he was 22, Floyd had an ERA around 8 when he was 22-23. Floyd was similar to him in that they throw around 70% fastballs, once Coop gets his other pitches stronger and once he puts on some weight (he should probably weight around 200-210 at 6-4) he should have potential to improve greatly.

If this deal goes down we're not going to be able to judge it right away.

Soxman219
12-07-2008, 11:47 PM
The mods combined posts from the clubhouse to WTS. Plus, Dye was my favorite player on the Sox and I will be depressed if this is true.

Domeshot17
12-07-2008, 11:48 PM
I want to see where this goes. Did ESPN site a source?

As much as I hate ESPN, when it comes to trades it seems like they don't usually jump the gun on them.

DaveFeelsRight
12-07-2008, 11:51 PM
i was reading on another board that the reds ****ed with bailey's mechanics

voodoochile
12-07-2008, 11:51 PM
3 posts in 4 mins saying the same thing? Really?

What's it to you?

For the record. One was from a thread he started in the Clubhouse which I merged in here.

btrain929
12-07-2008, 11:59 PM
What's it to you?

It's stupid, that's what it is to me.

voodoochile
12-08-2008, 12:01 AM
It's stupid, that's what it is to me.

Thanks for sharing...:rolleyes:

btrain929
12-08-2008, 12:01 AM
Thanks for sharing...:rolleyes:

You asked, so my pleasure...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:08 AM
I haven't read this entire thread, and probably won't do so until tomorrow morning, so please forgive me if this has already been said, but according to Baseball America, Homer Bailey was the #5 best prospect in all of baseball in 2007 and the #9 best prospect in 2008.

Gavin Floyd peaked at #9 in all of baseball in 2003, but had plummeted to #35 the year before we acquired him. John Danks peaked as the #56 prospect in baseball in 2007.

In Kenny Williams I Trust.

btrain929
12-08-2008, 12:13 AM
I haven't read this entire thread, and probably won't do so until tomorrow morning, so please forgive me if this has already been said, but according to Baseball America, Homer Bailey was the #5 best prospect in all of baseball in 2007 and the #9 best prospect in 2008.

Gavin Floyd peaked at #9 in all of baseball in 2003, but had plummeted to #35 the year before we acquired him. John Danks peaked as the #56 prospect in baseball in 2007.

In Kenny Williams I Trust.

I agree 100%, I would just hope to get at least 1 more quality prospect in the deal (best case scenario 2 more) for the simple fact that:
1) They aren't giving up anything from their big league roster to obtain such an impact bat.
2) His salary is either at market value or slightly below market value for his production, so it's not like they are taking on a Giambi-like contract.

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:20 AM
I agree 100%, I would just hope to get at least 1 more quality prospect in the deal (best case scenario 2 more) for the simple fact that:
1) They aren't giving up anything from their big league roster to obtain such an impact bat.
2) His salary is either at market value or slightly below market value for his production, so it's not like they are taking on a Giambi-like contract.

Yeah, Dye for Bailey straight up would be hard to swallow, but I can't believe so many people are ****ting all over Homer Bailey when:


He doesn't turn 23 until midway through next season
He has made all of 17 starts in his big league career
He is the exact model of young players (Floyd, Quentin, Danks) that the Sox have recently targeted: Very high draft pick, very hyped prospect, has struggled in limited time at the MLB level, but is ready to play in MLB today.

Not saying Bailey is destined to become a future Cy Young candidate, but this is the exact type of player that KW and the Sox have focused on, and so far the results have been very positive. When is KW going to catch a break and earn just a sliver of faith?

whitesoxfan
12-08-2008, 12:22 AM
Yeah, Dye for Bailey straight up would be hard to swallow, but I can't believe so many people are ****ting all over Homer Bailey when:


He doesn't turn 23 until midway through next season
He has made all of 17 starts in his big league career
He is the exact model of young players (Floyd, Quentin, Danks) that the Sox have recently targeted: Very high draft pick, very hyped prospect, has struggled in limited time at the MLB level, but is ready to play in MLB today.
Not saying Bailey is destined to become a future Cy Young candidate, but this is the exact type of player that KW and the Sox have focused on, and so far the results have been very positive. When is KW going to catch a break and earn just a sliver of faith?

I don't mind getting Bailey, I think he can turn it around here.

But this just creates another hole in the OF. Since Quentin would move to RF, who's playing LF now? There has to be another move, right?

kittle42
12-08-2008, 12:24 AM
Well, if this is the case, how long until "fire sale" can be shouted? Yes, yes, I know it's 12/8. I also know the Sox haven't done jack **** major in the free agent market since Albert Belle.

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:25 AM
It will be interesting to see the backlash PR wise Kenny and the Sox will take on this move (if it goes down). There will be tons of negative "fire-sale" reports and it will IMO affect single game ticket sales before opening day (unless a splashy veteran move follows behind this one).

But let's face it, Dye had one foot out the door before he signed that contract in the middle of August of 2007 where all of Sox nation was up in arms saying "what the hell were you thinking Kenny." 98% of the fans thought it was a mistake. So Kenny converts a "mistake" into high ceiling potential with this guy (Homer). So he could have let Dye walked after 2007 and got nothing for him, but instead held him on for one more year and swung him for a high potential arm.

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:26 AM
Well, if this is the case, how long until "fire sale" can be shouted? Yes, yes, I know it's 12/8. I also know the Sox haven't done jack **** major in the free agent market since Albert Belle.

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150229.jpg http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113679.jpg
Are you sure about that?

Scottiehaswheels
12-08-2008, 12:26 AM
Yeah, Dye for Bailey straight up would be hard to swallow, but I can't believe so many people are ****ting all over Homer Bailey when:


He doesn't turn 23 until midway through next season
He has made all of 17 starts in his big league career
He is the exact model of young players (Floyd, Quentin, Danks) that the Sox have recently targeted: Very high draft pick, very hyped prospect, has struggled in limited time at the MLB level, but is ready to play in MLB today.
Not saying Bailey is destined to become a future Cy Young candidate, but this is the exact type of player that KW and the Sox have focused on, and so far the results have been very positive. When is KW going to catch a break and earn just a sliver of faith?He has more than a sliver of faith from me but this isn't a Freddy Garcia or a Brandon McCarthy being traded away to acquire a similar type player. We all kinda knew that at least one of the starters was on the way out with a "proven workhorse" waiting in the wings, in McCarthy. (Phil, you still make me laugh) I was kind of shocked when we did trade McCarthy, although it was at least to replace someone in a similar position. Trading our one proven outfielder (we don't know how Quentin will bounce back) for a raw talent pitcher without getting an OF in return is what I question. Unless we are turning around and using the money to sign an OF to a short term deal.

I also have a feeling that KW won't sign an OF, should this trade go down, until after OC signs with whatever team he ends up signing with to see if our scheduled 24th pick isn't worth getting rid of if we have say, the 17th pick.

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:29 AM
It will be interesting to see the backlash PR wise Kenny and the Sox will take on this move (if it goes down). There will be tons of negative "fire-sale" reports and it will IMO affect single game ticket sales before opening day (unless a splashy veteran move follows behind this one).

The single-game ticket sales are extremely flighty, and if KW is making moves with them in mind, he's not doing his job. People will come to the Cell if the Sox are good, regardless if that team's average age is in the 30s and they're all multi-millionaires with long-term deals or if they're all a bunch of young kids. Likewise, the Sox could sign every sexy F/A name out there, but if they tank on the field, nobody's walking up to the gates by midseason.

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:29 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150229.jpg http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113679.jpg
Are you sure about that?


Come one now.

Those guys came in here at Flea Martket prices because Dye was coming off an injured season and AJ no one wanted because of character issues.

I don't claim those guys to be premier FA signings.

btrain929
12-08-2008, 12:29 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150229.jpg http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113679.jpg
Are you sure about that?

I know what you're saying, but I know what kittle is saying too, because at the times those weren't "major" FA signings. He's talking about the big FA contract-type of signings.

voodoochile
12-08-2008, 12:30 AM
Well, if this is the case, how long until "fire sale" can be shouted? Yes, yes, I know it's 12/8. I also know the Sox haven't done jack **** major in the free agent market since Albert Belle.\

Dye doesn't count because KW got him cheap?

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:32 AM
Come one now.

Those guys came in here at Flea Martket prices because Dye was coming off an injured season and AJ no one wanted because of character issues.

I don't claim those guys to be premier FA signings.

I know what you're saying, but I know what kittle is saying too, because at the times those weren't "major" FA signings. He's talking about the big FA contract-type of signings.

I'm sorry, you guys are right, the Sox shouldn't have made shrewd baseball and business moves. We should be signing guys like Randy Johnson, Johnny Damon, or J.D. Drew to outrageous salaries so they can perform at mediocre levels because "that's what the fans want."

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:35 AM
The single-game ticket sales are extremely flighty, and if KW is making moves with them in mind, he's not doing his job. People will come to the Cell if the Sox are good, regardless if that team's average age is in the 30s and they're all multi-millionaires with long-term deals or if they're all a bunch of young kids. Likewise, the Sox could sign every sexy F/A name out there, but if they tank on the field, nobody's walking up to the gates by midseason.

Sox fans will not go to April and May games if you are selling them a AAA squad. It's sad but that's the way it works.

I agree, Kenny is doing his job the right way on making the team better for the future, but baseball is a business and this kind of business does not sell tickets. Ask the Twins and ask the A's.

It took the Sox a very long time to build up the fanbase to where it was 2005-2007 ..... I'm affraid that the direciton we are heading will end up losing a ton of people along the way. The Indians have not recoverred from their "blow up" 8-10 years ago.

voodoochile
12-08-2008, 12:36 AM
Come one now.

Those guys came in here at Flea Martket prices because Dye was coming off an injured season and AJ no one wanted because of character issues.

I don't claim those guys to be premier FA signings.

No they just turned out that way. Even more so because of their price...

Do we really want to go back to the days of one major FA signing a year and holding on to overhyped prospects as if they were worth their weight in gold of the Scheuler era?

Navarro and Wells and Belle or...

Dye
Ramirez
AJ
Iguchi
etc.

It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it...

Oh and if this trade is real, then KW just cleared another 10M off the books for next year. I'd guess he as at least $18M to spend right now.

Along with the young talent KW's stocked with at present, he's well positioned to either go young and just sign a few stop gaps for the OF/SP or blow it all on a few huge acquisitions via trade...

johnnyg83
12-08-2008, 12:36 AM
I'm sorry, you guys are right, the Sox shouldn't have made shrewd baseball and business moves. We should be signing guys like Randy Johnson, Johnny Damon, or J.D. Drew to outrageous salaries so they can perform at mediocre levels because "that's what the fans want."

Come on, hyperbole guy, nobody's saying that.

voodoochile
12-08-2008, 12:38 AM
Come on, hyperbole guy, nobody's saying that.

Actually kind of they are... Better to appear good than to actually be good as it were...

Domeshot17
12-08-2008, 12:38 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150229.jpg http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113679.jpg
Are you sure about that?

We got these 2 the only way we ever do anything in Free Agency, by Bargain hunting. When we signed Dye he was getting a bad rap for injury history, his value was WAY down, and Kenny got him to sign a deal for less money then others had offered.

AJ, no was touching with a 10 foot pole. We signed him to a no risk deal, and it worked out great.

I guess a better arguement is you don't have to spend a ton to win in FA, but in reality, we strike out with these lightning in a bottle moves as much as we win (Erstad for example). Maybe not in terms of what they do (Erstad killed us in 2007, but Dye and AJ brought us a title, so in terms of impact I guess its a win, but in terms of move for move probably a wash).

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:39 AM
I'm sorry, you guys are right, the Sox shouldn't have made shrewd baseball and business moves. We should be signing guys like Randy Johnson, Johnny Damon, or J.D. Drew to outrageous salaries so they can perform at mediocre levels because "that's what the fans want."


Now don't take it to the extreme the other way.

Why not a Manny Ramirez, Carlos Beltran, A-rod, etc.... guys who have lived up to their outrageous salaries.

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:40 AM
Sox fans will not go to April and May games if you are selling them a AAA squad. It's sad but that's the way it works.

I agree, Kenny is doing his job the right way on making the team better for the future, but baseball is a business and this kind of business does not sell tickets. Ask the Twins and ask the A's.

It took the Sox a very long time to build up the fanbase to where it was 2005-2007 ..... I'm affraid that the direciton we are heading will end up losing a ton of people along the way. The Indians have not recoverred from their "blow up" 8-10 years ago.

Fans won't go to games in June, July, August, or September if the team sucks, so what's your point?

The Indians haven't recovered because A) they've pretty much sucked for the majority of that time and B) Cleveland is a football town and the Browns came back.

The bottom line is Kenny Williams is not the director of ticket sales or marketing or advertising. His job is not to put butts in the seats. His job is to assemble the best collection of talent that he can, and if he's successful, people will show up regardless if his team is a bunch of superstar veterans or twentysomething nobodies. Most people care about the logo on the chest more than the name on the back.

kittle42
12-08-2008, 12:42 AM
Now don't take it to the extreme the other way.

Why not a Manny Ramirez, Carlos Beltran, A-rod, etc.... guys who have lived up to their outrageous salaries.

Agreed. Why not? Because "We're the Sox and it's not realistic?" I hate that crap, but have learned to live with it.

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:42 AM
No they just turned out that way. Even more so because of their price...

Do we really want to go back to the days of one major FA signing a year and holding on to overhyped prospects as if they were worth their weight in gold of the Scheuler era?

Navarro and Wells and Belle or...

Dye
Ramirez
AJ
Iguchi
etc.

It's not what you spend, it's how you spend it...

Oh and if this trade is real, then KW just cleared another 10M off the books for next year. I'd guess he as at least $18M to spend right now.

Along with the young talent KW's stocked with at present, he's well positioned to either go young and just sign a few stop gaps for the OF/SP or blow it all on a few huge acquisitions via trade...

Hell, now there is enough room to trade for A-rod. That will sure cure all the wounds here.

5 seconds ..... counting down for some smart ass to say Crede is a much better player. :rolleyes:

voodoochile
12-08-2008, 12:43 AM
Now don't take it to the extreme the other way.

Why not a Manny Ramirez, Carlos Beltran, A-rod, etc.... guys who have lived up to their outrageous salaries.

Well the Sox were prepared to make ARod a 10 Year 195M offer when he left Seattle, but couldn't get a face to face with ARod (not saying they should have, just saying).

How many big money contracts are out there?

Also does signing their own FA's count? Buehrle and PK both got nice fat contracts to stay with the Sox. So did Contreras and Vazquez (right or wrong). The Dye got a solid extension when his contract came up for renewal.

You can argue the Sox prefer to gamble on a known commodity but you can't argue they aren't spending money on big name FA's.

ElmhurstMarcus
12-08-2008, 12:43 AM
http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html

doublem23
12-08-2008, 12:45 AM
Come on, hyperbole guy, nobody's saying that.

Well what the **** do you want? AJ has averaged 130+ games per year since he got here and Dye's played something like 140-150 every year. They've both been cornerstones of the team since they arrived. Both have made the All-Star team with the Sox, both have received voted for the MVP. If these don't qualify as "major" free agent signings then what does?

I'm sorry the White Sox are more concerned with the product on the field than they are with everyone's personal feelings, but had the Sox not been smart that off-season and rather than sign two "minor" free agents and gone out and bought themselves one big, high priced name, guess what? We'd be entering year #92.

This is the Sox's business model. I'm sorry they don't go out and lavishly spend money like the Yankees do, but it would be time to point out that the Yankees haven't won a World Series since they started spending money like it was going out of style. Do your remember the last Yankee team to win a World Series? That would be their 2000 team, a collection of homegrown talent and moderately priced free agents who filled in the gaps. When they were winning, they weren't throwing money around on guys like Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, etc., they were signing guys like Paul O'Neill and Scott Brosius.

Sound familiar?

DaveFeelsRight
12-08-2008, 12:46 AM
no no noooooooo not again

EDIT: that was fast haha

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:46 AM
The bottom line is Kenny Williams is not the director of ticket sales or marketing or advertising. His job is not to put butts in the seats. His job is to assemble the best collection of talent that he can, and if he's successful, people will show up regardless if his team is a bunch of superstar veterans or twentysomething nobodies. Most people care about the logo on the chest more than the name on the back.


All he does is bitch and preach that he can't spend a dollar if he only has 75 cents.

So by his thinking and bitching, he does have to worry about putting butts in the seats.

rbeze09
12-08-2008, 12:47 AM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081207&content_id=3705530&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Cincinnati Reds deny this rumor

Noneck
12-08-2008, 12:47 AM
I would just hope to get at least 1 more quality prospect in the deal (best case scenario 2 more) for the simple fact that:

If this trade goes through as is, I am convinced by this article http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081207-chicago-white-sox-winter-meetings,0,7672373.story the only reason more prospects were not obtained was because the Sox were not willing to pick a portion of Dyes salary.

ElmhurstMarcus
12-08-2008, 12:48 AM
http://www.middletownjournal.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/12/07/ddn120808spredsweb.html

johnnyg83
12-08-2008, 12:49 AM
Well the Sox were prepared to make ARod a 10 Year 195M offer when he left Seattle, but couldn't get a face to face with ARod (not saying they should have, just saying).

How many big money contracts are out there?

Also does signing their own FA's count? Buehrle and PK both got nice fat contracts to stay with the Sox. So did Contreras and Vazquez (right or wrong). The Dye got a solid extension when his contract came up for renewal.

You can argue the Sox prefer to gamble on a known commodity but you can't argue they aren't spending money on big name FA's.

I don't think there can be much argument about the way the Sox are doing business. From employing former Sox in broadcasting to management to coaching to FAs, Kenny is saying that we value loyalty in an inherently unloyal business. We may trade you away ... but once you're a WhiteSox you're always a WhiteSox. We may have to trade you for value ... but we willl always remember.

LoveYourSuit
12-08-2008, 12:51 AM
Well the Sox were prepared to make ARod a 10 Year 195M offer when he left Seattle, but couldn't get a face to face with ARod (not saying they should have, just saying).

How many big money contracts are out there?

Also does signing their own FA's count? Buehrle and PK both got nice fat contracts to stay with the Sox. So did Contreras and Vazquez (right or wrong). The Dye got a solid extension when his contract came up for renewal.

You can argue the Sox prefer to gamble on a known commodity but you can't argue they aren't spending money on big name FA's.


Buehrle and PK gave the Sox a very nice reasonable hometown discount to stay here. They could have made a few more $$$ elsewhere and in Buehrle's case add an extra yr to that deal. The Sox gets thing done their way or the high way.

Domeshot17
12-08-2008, 12:52 AM
Fans won't go to games in June, July, August, or September if the team sucks, so what's your point?

The Indians haven't recovered because A) they've pretty much sucked for the majority of that time and B) Cleveland is a football town and the Browns came back.

The bottom line is Kenny Williams is not the director of ticket sales or marketing or advertising. His job is not to put butts in the seats. His job is to assemble the best collection of talent that he can, and if he's successful, people will show up regardless if his team is a bunch of superstar veterans or twentysomething nobodies. Most people care about the logo on the chest more than the name on the back.

Most of that is false. At best a fan base is 50% the team and 50% fans of players. The players and the history are what makes the team logo and name mean anything.

If you hear Kenny talk, he is always griping about something, how he hates competing against the Cubs, how he thinks more fans will come with a 2nd world title.

You're Cleveland comparisons probably ring very close to home for us. Chicago is probably a football town first as well, and the Cubs are the golden son for Baseball. At the very BEST, we are Chicago's 3rd team, but I don't know how we stack up vs the Hawks resurgence or the Bulls.

If the team wins, it won't be empty, but if its a team of a bunch of nobodies, it won't sell out every game either. Kenny should directly be worried about ticket sales and team revenue. That is a big impact on his budget planning. As the general manager, it is his job to worry about it all. He is basically the 2nd in command to JR. To think Kenny doesn't care if theres 40,000 fans or 4,000 fans is wrong.

If the moves all happen, we are going on Marlins territory about tearing down a good team to go very young. I doubt it goes that way, but every veteran we have has been in a rumor sans AJ and Buehrle.