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DirtySox
12-04-2008, 01:18 PM
3 White Sox on the list.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1815

(Flowers is still listed as Braves)

For the Lazy:

7. Gordon Beckham, SS (White Sox)
15. Tyler Flowers, C (Braves)
16. Aaron Poreda, LHP (White Sox)

champagne030
12-04-2008, 03:26 PM
3 White Sox on the list.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1815

(Flowers is still listed as Braves)

For the Lazy:

7. Gordon Beckham, SS (White Sox)
15. Tyler Flowers, C (Braves)
16. Aaron Poreda, LHP (White Sox)

Not only did MacDougal steal money from the White Sox, but now it looks like Cortes will remind us often of how bad that trade panned out.

oeo
12-04-2008, 03:27 PM
Not only did MacDougal steal money from the White Sox, but now it looks like Cortes will remind us often of how bad that trade panned out.

MacDougal did his job when we were trying to repeat. :shrug:

champagne030
12-04-2008, 03:34 PM
MacDougal did his job when we were trying to repeat. :shrug:

And completely **** himself outside of those 25 innings that resulted in missing the playoffs. We'd all clearly reverse that trade if possible.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 03:34 PM
MacDougal did his job when we were trying to repeat. :shrug:

Two months of being good .vs. Two years of bad god awful.....:scratch:

He's just saying that obviously, in hindsight, we didn't come out on top....

jabrch
12-04-2008, 03:37 PM
(Flowers is still listed as Braves)

Not anymore

oeo
12-04-2008, 03:47 PM
And completely **** himself outside of those 25 innings that resulted in missing the playoffs. We'd all clearly reverse that trade if possible.

Obviously, but this is stupid. Life would be a lot easier if you could know what was coming.

It's stupid to fret over Cortes. You wanted another championship in 2006, did you not? A reliever in the back end of our bullpen (or anywhere, for that matter) was a necessity.

Two months of being good .vs. Two years of bad god awful.....:scratch:

He's just saying that obviously, in hindsight, we didn't come out on top....

Well, anyone can tell you that. In retrospect you don't make the trade, but you can't make decisions based on knowing what the future holds. At the time, we got a very good set up man in a bullpen that was a complete disaster. I'd be 100% behind the move again considering the circumstances.

veeter
12-04-2008, 03:47 PM
Not only did MacDougal steal money from the White Sox, but now it looks like Cortes will remind us often of how bad that trade panned out.Getting anything for MacDougal was great for KC. But Cortes is no lock to do anything at the major league level. Although Phil Rogers reminds us readers of Cortes often.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 03:53 PM
At the time, we got a very good set up man in a bullpen that was a complete disaster. I'd be 100% behind the move again considering the circumstances.

He wasn't THAT good when we got him. It's not like he was a lockdown reliever that got here and lost it. I'm pretty sure he was coming off injury 'cuz he only pitched 4 games for KC in '06 before we got him, and was coming off of seasons where he sported ERA's of 3.33 and 5.56....

oeo
12-04-2008, 03:54 PM
He wasn't THAT good when we got him. It's not like he was a lockdown reliever that got here and lost it. I'm pretty sure he was coming off injury 'cuz he only pitched 4 games for KC in '06 before we got him, and was coming off of seasons where he sported ERA's of 3.33 and 5.56....

Uh...yeah, he was that good in 2006 for us.

MacDougal was brought here to solidify a bad pen in 2006 when we were looking to repeat as World Champs. He did his job. It's not a situation where Kenny made a deal just to make one. We needed him, or anyone, badly. You just look like a moron whining about it now, when I'm sure you were liking MacDougal in the second half of 2006.

champagne030
12-04-2008, 04:06 PM
Obviously, but this is stupid. Life would be a lot easier if you could know what was coming.

It's stupid to fret over Cortes. You wanted another championship in 2006, did you not? A reliever in the back end of our bullpen (or anywhere, for that matter) was a necessity.


Some did have an idea of what was coming. I didn't like the trade then. I thought Lumsden alone was too much. And he wasn't that valuable because he pitched half his 25 innings in situations where we were losing or up big. MacDougal has been pretty craptacular his entire career outside of 1 1/3 seasons.

oeo
12-04-2008, 04:10 PM
Some did have an idea of what was coming. I didn't like the trade then. I thought Lumsden alone was too much. And he wasn't that valuable because he pitched half his 25 innings in situations where we were losing or up big. MacDougal has been pretty craptacular his entire career outside of 1 1/3 seasons.

champagne030 = :cleo ?

Give me a break. At the time of the trade, we lead the Wild Card by 2 games. Should we have just thrown in the towel because Daniel Cortes might make the major leagues 3-4 years from then? Wow, I seriously hope you don't believe that.

BTW, your comment about his appearances was pulled out of your ass.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 04:10 PM
He wasn't THAT good when we got him. It's not like he was a lockdown reliever that got here and lost it. I'm pretty sure he was coming off injury 'cuz he only pitched 4 games for KC in '06 before we got him, and was coming off of seasons where he sported ERA's of 3.33 and 5.56....

Uh...yeah, he was that good in 2006 for us.

MacDougal was brought here to solidify a bad pen in 2006 when we were looking to repeat as World Champs. He did his job. It's not a situation where Kenny made a deal just to make one. We needed him, or anyone, badly. You just look like a moron whining about it now, when I'm sure you were liking MacDougal in the second half of 2006.

I said he wasn't that good of a reliever at the time we acquired him, not what he did here. Reading comprehension CAN be your friend....

And I'm not whining about it, but what good does it do bringing up the good 25IP's he had with us, when he sucked for 2 years after that? That's like saying Boone Logan was a success here because of what he did in '08 from April-Jun, but not caring about what he did in '06, '07, and the end of '08.

And, in typical oeo fashion, when you run out of stuff to say, go off topic and call someone a moron. My god.....

You stay classy, San Diego....

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://correctopinion.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/anchorman2wi.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGMb60xOV4jaB8D_g1Zi5wy2TseNA

Some did have an idea of what was coming. I didn't like the trade then. I thought Lumsden alone was too much. And he wasn't that valuable because he pitched half his 25 innings in situations where we were losing or up big. MacDougal has been pretty craptacular his entire career outside of 1 1/3 seasons.

Thank you, my thoughts exactly. I didn't expect much from him coming here because he was a pretty bad reliever in his time before here. And it didn't take long 'til he returned to said status.

champagne030
12-04-2008, 04:23 PM
champagne030 = :cleo ?

Give me a break. At the time of the trade, we lead the Wild Card by 2 games. Should we have just thrown in the towel because Daniel Cortes might make the major leagues 3-4 years from then? Wow, I seriously hope you don't believe that.

There were several questions about that trade at the time. And yes, pass on a POS pitcher and go for a substitute.

BTW, your comment about his appearances was pulled out of your ass. He made 29 appearances during 2006 and 4 were with the Royals. 16 of those 29 were non-save situations. So it was pulled from memory and backed up by Baseball Reference. Want to play again?

oeo
12-04-2008, 04:24 PM
I said he wasn't that good of a reliever at the time we acquired him, not what he did here. Reading comprehension can be your friend....

Haha, don't act like what you wrote was clear.

And I'm not whining about it, but what good does it do bringing up the good 25IP's he had with us, when he sucked for 2 years after that? That's like saying Boone Logan was a success here because of what he did in '08 from April-Jun, but not caring about what he did in '06, '07, and the end of '08.

I never once said that. My only issue is this whole fantasy world where you can see into the future and reverse trades.

In fact, I said in retrospect you don't make the deal. But fretting over a guy that was 3-4 years away at the time, when we sorely needed bullpen help is silly.

And, in typical oeo fashion, when you run out of stuff to say, go off topic and call someone a moron. My god.....

I didn't call you a moron. I said you look like a moron if you're going to whine about it.

oeo
12-04-2008, 04:33 PM
There were several questions about that trade at the time. And yes, pass on a POS pitcher and go for a substitute.

What substitute? He was a POS for us?

He made 29 appearances during 2006 and 4 were with the Royals. 16 of those 29 were non-save situations. So it was pulled from memory and backed up by Baseball Reference. Want to play again?17 of his 25 appearances were in games decided by 3 runs or less. For a set up man, that's nothing out of the ordinary. In fact, I bet if you look at most set up guys, they have a similar percentage. You're not going to pitch every game in a save situation.

You act like he was our garbage time reliever. That's a joke.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 04:34 PM
Haha, don't act like what you wrote was clear.



I never once said that. My only issue is this whole fantasy world where you can see into the future and reverse trades.

In fact, I said in retrospect you don't make the deal. But fretting over a guy that was 3-4 years away at the time, when we sorely needed bullpen help is silly.



I didn't call you a moron. I said you look like a moron if you're going to whine about it.

I'll let champagne argue with you 'cuz your tit-tat conversation is annoying....

"Don't act like what you wrote was clear" - HUH? :scratch: I bolded exactly where I said that he wasn't that good of a reliever when we acquired him. It's not like we traded for Scot Shields or Linebrink at the time.

"I didn't call you a moron, I said you look like a moron if..." - Oh, well then it's okay, we're cool.... :?:

Your entire reply just made me want to type about 50 of these :scratch:. I bet you go to Charlotte Knights' games and hold up a "Macdougal Rocks!" sign and tell endless stories to people around you about "remember that time back in '06 when Mac threw that sick slider to strike that one guy out? Man that was awesome..."

And you knew this was coming when you decided to cherry-pick 25 IP's out of Macdougal's 2.5 years here to defend. Way to corrupt another thread...

oeo
12-04-2008, 05:01 PM
I'll let champagne argue with you 'cuz your tit-tat conversation is annoying....

"Don't act like what you wrote was clear" - HUH? :scratch: I bolded exactly where I said that he wasn't that good of a reliever when we acquired him. It's not like we traded for Scot Shields or Linebrink at the time.

That was never my argument. For insulting me on my reading comprehension, you are not very good at it. My entire argument was that MacDougal was needed at the time. Sometimes you have to overpay.

"I didn't call you a moron, I said you look like a moron if..." - Oh, well then it's okay, we're cool.... :?:I really don't care whether we're 'cool' or not. I'm not going to lose any sleep over you disliking me.

Your entire reply just made me want to type about 50 of these :scratch:. I bet you go to Charlotte Knights' games and hold up a "Macdougal Rocks!" sign and tell endless stories to people around you about "remember that time back in '06 when Mac threw that sick slider to strike that one guy out? Man that was awesome..."

And you knew this was coming when you decided to cherry-pick 25 IP's out of Macdougal's 2.5 years here to defend. Way to corrupt another thread...Wow. Again, insult someone on reading comprehension, you better make sure you can comprehend. From the beginning, all I said was it's silly to fret over Cortes because we needed to make the deal at the time. I didn't defend MacDougal's crappiness like you're claiming I did. I said we were looking to repeat and had serious bullpen issues. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 07:00 PM
I didn't defend MacDougal's crappiness like you're claiming I did.

Uhhhmmm....

MacDougal did his job when we were trying to repeat. :shrug:

The defense rests....

LoveYourSuit
12-04-2008, 07:42 PM
MacDougal did his job when we were trying to repeat. :shrug:

I agree on that part. He did his job when we needed him for that pennant push we didn't win.

Signing him to the big contract extension is what became the big mistake.... but how was Kenny suppose to know.

rdivaldi
12-04-2008, 09:39 PM
Not only did MacDougal steal money from the White Sox, but now it looks like Cortes will remind us often of how bad that trade panned out.

Unless Cortes learns to control his fastball and develops his offspeed stuff he's not going to remind us anytime soon.

champagne030
12-04-2008, 10:51 PM
Unless Cortes learns to control his fastball and develops his offspeed stuff he's not going to remind us anytime soon.

I take it you haven't see him since he left Kanny. His trade value is already way more than Lumsden and MacDougal were ever worth. I question if he'll ever put it all together, but he's probably worth Poreda on the trade market right now.

rdivaldi
12-04-2008, 10:59 PM
I take it you haven't see him since he left Kanny. His trade value is already way more than Lumsden and MacDougal were ever worth. I question if he'll ever put it all together, but he's probably worth Poreda on the trade market right now.

I've seen him, he's still wild. He's extremely young and ahead of the curve, so I do expect him to improve. He looks the part and has a great arm, but I think he needs another year in the minors. Knowing the Royals, they'll screw it up.

champagne030
12-04-2008, 11:06 PM
I've seen him, he's still wild. He's extremely young and ahead of the curve, so I do expect him to improve. He looks the part and has a great arm, but I think he needs another year in the minors. Knowing the Royals, they'll screw it up.

Fair enough. I think we're probably close in that his trade value at this point is high and is exactly the type of chip that Kenny flips for proven talent.

rdivaldi
12-05-2008, 12:23 AM
Fair enough. I think we're probably close in that his trade value at this point is high and is exactly the type of chip that Kenny flips for proven talent.

I concur. Right now his trade value is most likely peaking. He's right at that point/age where some GM might be thinking that he's a future ace.

DirtySox
12-06-2008, 02:45 PM
Beckham and Flowers made it onto the AFL Top Prospect Team:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081204&content_id=3702693&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

No Poreda though.