PDA

View Full Version : Cabrera back with the Sox next season??


Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 08:48 PM
Rosenthal said that OC might accept arbitration from the Sox because of the economy being bad, so he might get a better deal next year..

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 08:52 PM
Hello best case scenario.

munchman33
12-03-2008, 08:52 PM
Hello best case scenario.

:bandance::bandance::bandance:

sox1970
12-03-2008, 08:53 PM
That would suck.

Lundind1
12-03-2008, 08:53 PM
There is a complete 180 from what was being said yesterday. Maybe this will be a scaled back retooling that the Sox are doing. With Cabrera a good possibility back at SS, that would leave Ramirez at second and the only question that we have is 3rd. This is a very interesting turn of events that will only strengthen the middle infield. If he decides to take it, then I would still welcome him back with open arms. He had a pretty decent 08 season yet still we would like to get a leadoff man and put him around the 5 or 6 hole.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 08:55 PM
That would suck.
It would be fantastic.

guillensdisciple
12-03-2008, 08:56 PM
There is a complete 180 from what was being said yesterday. Maybe this will be a scaled back retooling that the Sox are doing. With Cabrera a good possibility back at SS, that would leave Ramirez at second and the only question that we have is 3rd. This is a very interesting turn of events that will only strengthen the middle infield. If he decides to take it, then I would still welcome him back with open arms. He had a pretty decent 08 season yet still we would like to get a leadoff man and put him around the 5 or 6 hole.

2 spot, he is the perfect fit for the two hitter. We can finally slot A.J. to a different spot in the batting order- how it is supposed to be. If he does accept, then Kenny needs to find a suitable lead-off man to make sure this offense is adequate enough to produce when needed.

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 08:56 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8885188/Market-shaping-up-for-Adam-Dunn?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

here is the link

sox1970
12-03-2008, 08:57 PM
It would be fantastic.

Cabrera is an asshat.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:00 PM
Cabrera is an asshat.
Based on...?

whitesox901
12-03-2008, 09:00 PM
hmm, makes sense, he can bat second and put TCM back at second. With Josh at third, would this only lead the need for a lead-off and another SP?

F4L
12-03-2008, 09:01 PM
I love how that articles says Cabrera won't start for us next year, pure stupidity, as if they were t relegate him to the bench for who? Getz at 2B? Nix? Lillibridge? Yeah right, come back OC, we're welcoming you back with open arms.

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2008, 09:02 PM
Cabrera is an asshat.
Yea but so was Carlton Fisk and Frank Thomas, I don't care so long as they produce! IF this happens, it changes everything. Alexei can still play second and if you can somehow get Figgins you can move OC back to the two hole where he's a better fit. That means all Kenny really has to do is focus on the pitching, still a big task but fewer holes!

SoxGirl4Life
12-03-2008, 09:02 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8885188/Market-shaping-up-for-Adam-Dunn?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

here is the link
This is all Rosenthal's spectulation

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 09:03 PM
I would be thrilled to have OC back with the Sox for 1 season than the following year Beckham can take over..

Boondock Saint
12-03-2008, 09:03 PM
I love how that articles says Cabrera won't start for us next year, pure stupidity, as if they were t relegate him to the bench for who? Getz at 2B? Nix? Lillibridge? Yeah right, come back OC, we're welcoming you back with open arms.


Hell no we aren't. Stay the **** away.

kba
12-03-2008, 09:04 PM
This whole thing is just Rosenthal spinning out a "what if" scenario. He doesn't quote Cabrera, Cabrera's agent, Sox officials, or anybody else.

F4L
12-03-2008, 09:05 PM
Hell no we aren't. Stay the **** away.
Find me a better option to win NOW. Not in 2 years, right now. I can't think of any unless you want to open up the checkbook for a Rafael Furcal. This would give us one less position to worry about for this year. I don't see any reason not to.

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 09:06 PM
This whole thing is just Rosenthal spinning out a "what if" scenario. He doesn't quote Cabrera, Cabrera's agent, Sox officials, or anybody else.


it still can happen though.. I am sure OC and his agent are talking about all kinds of possibilities...

Boondock Saint
12-03-2008, 09:09 PM
Find me a better option to win NOW. Not in 2 years, right now. I can't think of any unless you want to open up the checkbook for a Rafael Furcal. This would give us one less position to worry about for this year. I don't see any reason not to.

I'll take TCM at SS and platoon 2b. OC's defense is vastly overrated, and his "groundout in one pitch" approach at the plate doesn't help anyone. Add his pissy attitude into the equation and keeping him far away from the team makes that much more sense.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:11 PM
I'll take TCM at SS and platoon 2b. OC's defense is vastly overrated, and his "groundout in one pitch" approach at the plate doesn't help anyone. Add his pissy attitude into the equation and keeping him far away from the team makes that much more sense.
I don't think his defense is great, but he was a hell of a lot better at SS than Alexei was at 2B.

SoxFan88
12-03-2008, 09:12 PM
I'll take TCM at SS and platoon 2b. OC's defense is vastly overrated, and his "groundout in one pitch" approach at the plate doesn't help anyone. Add his pissy attitude into the equation and keeping him far away from the team makes that much more sense.


Getz has proved nothing but I'd rather have him starting over OC for the above reasons... a package of OC and Dye could bring in a good SP instead of having to pay top dollar in free agent SPs

gregoriop
12-03-2008, 09:12 PM
Based on...?


The way he acted last season....

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:14 PM
The way he acted last season....
When?

Boondock Saint
12-03-2008, 09:17 PM
I don't think his defense is great, but he was a hell of a lot better at SS than Alexei was at 2B.

Alexei made some rookie mistakes at 2B last year, but made up for it with some spectacular plays. Cabrera made plenty of errors last year, as well as barely putting forth an effort on some balls. As a veteran, that kind of effort/attitude is inexcusable.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:18 PM
Alexei made some rookie mistakes at 2B last year, but made up for it with some spectacular plays. Cabrera made plenty of errors last year, as well as barely putting forth an effort on some balls. As a veteran, that kind of effort/attitude is inexcusable.
I guess we were watching different players. Of course Alexei made spectacular plays, because he had to dive to his left so often. Laterally, he moved at Paulie's pace.

Boondock Saint
12-03-2008, 09:21 PM
I guess we were watching different players. Of course Alexei made spectacular plays, because he had to dive to his left so often. Laterally, he moved at Paulie's pace.

...and this is where I stop reading anything you have to say about Alexei's defense.

BadBobbyJenks
12-03-2008, 09:22 PM
I guess we were watching different players. Of course Alexei made spectacular plays, because he had to dive to his left so often. Laterally, he moved at Paulie's pace.

Don't even try to argue this, he made web gems he is the best ever!

As for OC I have been on board from the start of him coming back one more year so Beckham can take over in 2010.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:22 PM
...and this is where I stop reading anything you have to say about Alexei's defense.
Seriously. Watching Alexei move to his left was painful.

DaveFeelsRight
12-03-2008, 09:23 PM
asshat or not, i would welcome him back with open arms.

thedudeabides
12-03-2008, 09:31 PM
When?

C'mon Grebeck, you're just trying to bait someone into an argument. He had issues with management, coaches, teamates, and opposing players. It was well known half way through the season the Sox had no interest in bringing him back.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:32 PM
C'mon Grebeck, you're just trying to bait someone into an argument. He had issues with management, coaches, teamates, and opposing players. It was well known half way through the season the Sox had no interest in bringing him back.
Outside of the Balfour incident, I wouldn't call him an asshat. Sorry, I just don't buy into this Joe Cowley pushed bull****.

thedudeabides
12-03-2008, 09:35 PM
Outside of the Balfour incident, I wouldn't call him an asshat. Sorry, I just don't buy into this Joe Cowley pushed bull****.

Well, Ozzie questioned his leadership and had to have closed door meetings with him. The team took offense to him calling up to the press box to have errors corrected. He got into multiple arguments with JD over his base running antics. Just to name a few. He wasn't well liked here. It's pretty common knowledge and Joe Cowley wasn't the only one bringing it up.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:36 PM
Well, Ozzie questioned his leadership and had to have closed door meetings with him. The team took offense to him calling up to the press box to have errors corrected. He got into multiple arguments with JD over his base running antics. Just to name a few. He wasn't well liked here. It's pretty common knowledge and Joe Cowley wasn't the only one bringing it up.
Lots of players call the press box, it wasn't out of the ordinary. As for he and JD arguing about base running, why are people so certain OC was out of line?

thedudeabides
12-03-2008, 09:40 PM
Lots of players call the press box, it wasn't out of the ordinary. As for he and JD arguing about base running, why are people so certain OC was out of line?


See it how you want. It wasn't a well kept secret that the organization didn't like him and they didn't get what they thought they were. It's also not the first organization who saw it that way.

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 09:45 PM
I dont know the exact qoute, but at the end of the year when we were falling flat, didn't it go down something like this:

OC talks about how the team just gets content and doesn't have a killer instinct to win (which he was right on).

Ozzie comes back and says if Orlando wants to be a leader, then actually do something, because running your mouth means nothing when you do nothing on the field to help the team

(paraphrased, like I said, don't have the exact qoute)

sox1970
12-03-2008, 09:51 PM
I dont know the exact qoute, but at the end of the year when we were falling flat, didn't it go down something like this:

OC talks about how the team just gets content and doesn't have a killer instinct to win (which he was right on).

Ozzie comes back and says if Orlando wants to be a leader, then actually do something, because running your mouth means nothing when you do nothing on the field to help the team

(paraphrased, like I said, don't have the exact qoute)

See, the problem Ozzie had with Cabrera is that he didn't say **** in March, April, May...you can't start playing team leader in September. That doesn't fly. He's a goofball.

munchman33
12-03-2008, 10:01 PM
I, for one, would like to say that Cabrera's problems with teammates might have more to do with those teammates and their attitudes than Cabrera. The guy's a natural winner. His attitude reminds me of Ozzie more than anything. And if Ozzie didn't like him, it's probably because he can't get along with himself.

35th and Shields
12-03-2008, 10:03 PM
Lots of players call the press box, it wasn't out of the ordinary. As for he and JD arguing about base running, why are people so certain OC was out of line?

I'll give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who's been a great clubhouse presence and leader throughout his entire career.

rowand33
12-03-2008, 10:05 PM
I would welcome this. OC is a good player and I didn't have a problem with his attitude.

OC: I'd like to win.
WSI: How... dare... you! Asshat!

soltrain21
12-03-2008, 10:08 PM
I think this is best case scenario, actually. All we would have to do is find a third baseman center fielder, or right fielder that can lead off (assuming Dye would be moved for a pitcher).

btrain929
12-03-2008, 10:14 PM
This whole thing is just Rosenthal spinning out a "what if" scenario. He doesn't quote Cabrera, Cabrera's agent, Sox officials, or anybody else.

Thank you. And I highly doubt he comes back with just about every time on the West Coast, plus CIN, MIN, DET, possibly STL and ATL, in the market for a SS.

oeo
12-03-2008, 10:44 PM
Seriously. Watching Alexei move to his left was painful.

I didn't notice this at all. :shrug:

Maybe I was just used to little range Iguchi.

Zisk77
12-03-2008, 10:52 PM
I didn't notice this at all. :shrug:

Maybe I was just used to little range Iguchi.


Come now...alexi can't move to his right.
OC was a model citizen.
The holacaust never happened and other revisionist history by Craig Grebeck.:scratch:

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:54 PM
Come now...alexi can't move to his right.
OC was a model citizen.
The holacaust never happened and other revisionist history by Craig Grebeck.:scratch:
Nice strawman -- and classy reference as well. Good to know your understanding of my post history is in line with your understanding of right and left.

WHILEPITCH
12-03-2008, 10:56 PM
At OC's age, I think this is just him trying to leverage himself into a bigger FA deal somewhere.

That said, I'd take him back next year. C'mon for all that's wrong with us, he's the type of player we need. Defense and...can put a bat on a ball, do different things in different hitting situations.

He wasnt the problem. Everyone just goes against him b/c he was a rental and b/c he has some attitude. So what.



Everyone here who hates him will one day miss his 33 doubles from 07-08.

oeo
12-03-2008, 10:59 PM
At OC's age, I think this is just him trying to leverage himself into a bigger FA deal somewhere.

That said, I'd take him back next year. C'mon for all that's wrong with us, he's the type of player we need. Defense and...can put a bat on a ball, do different things in different hitting situations.

He wasnt the problem. Everyone just goes against him b/c he was a rental and b/c he has some attitude. So what.

He was selfish with the bat for the most part, and he didn't even bring his Gold Glove defense to Chicago. Multiple blow ups in the clubhouse, as well, for a guy who was supposed to be a leader.

I wouldn't be crying if Cabrera came back. I was in favor of that trade when it happened, and still am. Last year he was not the player he was hyped up to be. I don't know that I trust him at SS (if his performance is a sign of decline, then things aren't going to get better) or in the #2 slot. In other words, if he came back, okay...I'd rather he not, though.

FGarcia34
12-03-2008, 10:59 PM
agreed, the guy can play some baseball. if he does accept arbitration, it allows ramirez to fill the void and 2nd base or center field. allowing us to still pick up a leadoff hitter. i actually hope he does accept.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-03-2008, 11:12 PM
he owes us a gold-glove calibur year and a much better year at the plate.
ill take him back for one more season if we're not going to get orlando hudson or b-rob :redneck (brian roberts not former bear bryan robinson).

johnnyg83
12-03-2008, 11:16 PM
I guess we were watching different players. Of course Alexei made spectacular plays, because he had to dive to his left so often. Laterally, he moved at Paulie's pace.


sorry ... read this on Page 2 of the discussion ... What are you talking about?

Zisk77
12-03-2008, 11:18 PM
Nice strawman -- and classy reference as well. Good to know your understanding of my post history is in line with your understanding of right and left.


Whatever, I swear you'd argue the sky isn't blue.

dwalteroo
12-03-2008, 11:19 PM
I kind of hope he accepts too; OC is a very good 1-year solution.

The Sox are awesome at picking up guys other teams are done with, but this will be a new one...picking up a guy the SOX are done with. It's so crazy, it just might work.

guillensdisciple
12-03-2008, 11:25 PM
What if he drags his decision out on this? He can end up screwing the Sox out of somebody they might want at short or second if he waits a long time to decide.

champagne030
12-03-2008, 11:29 PM
The Sox are awesome at picking up guys other teams are done with, but this will be a new one...picking up a guy the SOX are done with. It's so crazy, it just might work.

They did it with Uribe last season and the Sox wouldn't have won the division if they didn't retain him.

That said, I hope that Cabrera is not back with us next year. It seems we're playing for 2010+ and I'd rather have the picks if that's the route we're going to take.

sox1970
12-03-2008, 11:32 PM
What if he drags his decision out on this? He can end up screwing the Sox out of somebody they might want at short or second if he waits a long time to decide.

I believe he has until Sunday to decide to accept.

btrain929
12-03-2008, 11:37 PM
I believe he has until Sunday to decide to accept.

Exactly. Taking the next 5 days to decide won't make or break any of our plans. I expect him to decline, and I expect 1 of Getz/Lillibridge to take advantage of the opportunity to become a solid contributor to the White Sox in the present and in the future.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 11:44 PM
sorry ... read this on Page 2 of the discussion ... What are you talking about?
He doesn't move well to his left. He looks unnatural and awkward while having to dive and make seemingly "spectacular" plays to make up for it.

Whatever, I swear you'd argue the sky isn't blue.
Whatever. If you're just going to rip me and not even counter that Alexei couldn't move to his left as well as people think, then don't bother replying.

johnnyg83
12-03-2008, 11:56 PM
As well as "people think"? The guy was responsible for 75% of the teams infield Web gems.

Maybe he doesn't move to his left ... I didn't see that, but Cabrera missed a ton of easy plays on balls hit right at him. I'd take Alexei over OC at short everyday.

Tragg
12-04-2008, 12:03 AM
So if Cabrera accepts arb, do we get picks next year when someone signs him?

How's Alexei's CF defense?

Craig Grebeck
12-04-2008, 12:04 AM
As well as "people think"? The guy was responsible for 75% of the teams infield Web gems.

Maybe he doesn't move to his left ... I didn't see that, but Cabrera missed a ton of easy plays on balls hit right at him. I'd take Alexei over OC at short everyday.
That's an ignorant statement, based solely on the fact that Alexei played, what, 53 innings at short last season?

btrain929
12-04-2008, 12:06 AM
So if Cabrera accepts arb, do we get picks next year when someone signs him?

As long as he keeps his Type A status, we would go thru the same process next year as we are now and if he declines, we still get 2 picks. If, for some reason, he dropped down to Type B status from poor play or injury, he wouldn't be worth offering arb to.

WhiteSox5187
12-04-2008, 12:08 AM
As well as "people think"? The guy was responsible for 75% of the teams infield Web gems.

Maybe he doesn't move to his left ... I didn't see that, but Cabrera missed a ton of easy plays on balls hit right at him. I'd take Alexei over OC at short everyday.
Web gems doesn't mean a guy is a good fielder necessarily. However, I would argue that Alexei is actually quite good as a second baseman. Nor do I recall him having any problem of going to his left (which should actually be easier for a second baseman). The way some people are talking about his defense you'd swear to God we had Jose Valentin or Eric Solderholm out there. Alexei is probably a better short stop than a second baseman, but it's not like he's hurting you out there. He's more than adequate for second base.

Nellie_Fox
12-04-2008, 12:14 AM
I, for one, would like to say that Cabrera's problems with teammates might have more to do with those teammates and their attitudes than Cabrera.Then why have three other teams dumped him?

I've never heard anyone say Dye is a bad teammate. There have been all kinds of reports of teams being glad Cabrera is gone. If Cabrera accepts arbitration, I have no big problem with it. I see it as a no-lose situation. But I can't see arguing that he was the one who has been wronged in his various conflicts last year. If he comes back, okay. If not, I'd rather have Alexei at short and the draft picks anyway.

johnnyg83
12-04-2008, 12:22 AM
Web gems doesn't mean a guy is a good fielder necessarily.

No argument. But Alexei to my eye, was capable of great plays on a routine basis .. Cabrera was a surprise when he made a great play.

johnnyg83
12-04-2008, 12:25 AM
And if so OC was worse to his left ...

btrain929
12-04-2008, 12:29 AM
I think I read somewhere that Alexei made 7 less plays than your average 2B, ranking him 25th-ish as far as 2B's go. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but his defense isn't that highly regarded around baseball.

voodoochile
12-04-2008, 12:59 AM
I think I read somewhere that Alexei made 7 less plays than your average 2B, ranking him 25th-ish as far as 2B's go. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but his defense isn't that highly regarded around baseball.

Range Factor is outs per 9 innings. Only 16 guys qualified last year to be listed in the 2B defensive statistics list. Alexei was 11th with a RF of 4.99 in about 113 complete games worth of stats. Kinsler of Texas was the clear runaway stud at 5.78 and nearly 125 more outs than Ramirez in only an extra 5 games however Kinsler also had the worst Fld% of the qualified players.

However after Kinsler it drops off dramatically and if Alexei had another 7 PO/A over the games he played he'd be pretty much tied for 3rd on the list for RF. Of the unqualified guys only 3 players played around 1/2 season at 2B who would have had better stats than AR and Uribe played about 1/4 and would have been like 2nd on the list.

Ramirez Zone Rating (I have no idea how they determine this) puts him middle of the pack at 8th and his Fld% comes in again at 11th.

Obviously defensive stats are shoddy at best when determining if a player is actually a good defender, but

Still, It's not his best position according to the coaches and that's why they want to move him to SS which supposedly is his best position.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&split=80&sortColumn=fieldingPct

HomeFish
12-04-2008, 01:07 AM
"Oh no! We might be stuck with one of the top offensive shortstops in baseball on our team next year!"

guillensdisciple
12-04-2008, 01:19 AM
"Oh no! We might be stuck with one of the top offensive shortstops in baseball on our team next year!"

We are so screwed :whiner::whiner:

kittle42
12-04-2008, 01:30 AM
People lamenting the possibility that he may be back remind me of people who wanted Vazquez gone with no replacement because he had "no guts" (congrats, by the way).

btrain929
12-04-2008, 01:32 AM
Guillensdisciple-

Fix your signature. It's "Tying RUN at second two outs.." !!!! :D:

guillensdisciple
12-04-2008, 01:35 AM
Guillensdisciple-

Fix your signature. It's "Tying RUN at second two outs.." !!!! :D:

Done and done...

Thank you, btrain.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 01:38 AM
Done and done...

Thank you, btrain.

No problem. I figured a great moment of White sox history can't be messed up. I was gonna tell you that Palmeiro's last name was misspelled too, but he sucks and isn't worthy of correction... :D:

guillensdisciple
12-04-2008, 01:50 AM
No problem. I figured a great moment of White sox history can't be messed up. I was gonna tell you that Palmeiro's last name was misspelled too, but he sucks and isn't worthy of correction... :D:

Hahaha, woops, I am usually decent with spelling. I guess I got overexcited writing that. The last part of that gave me shivers so my brain was incapacitated.

I will change that too.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 01:54 AM
Hahaha, woops, I am usually decent with spelling. I guess I got overexcited writing that. The last part of that when gave me shivers so my brain was incapacitated.

I will change that too.

Haha, understandable. Cheers to good times. :gulp:

Konerko05
12-04-2008, 01:59 AM
I really don't see Cabrera accepting arbitration.

He isn't getting any younger. If he wants a multiyear deal, his best chance is now. There is also no guarantee the economy will improve by next offseason.

There has to be some team offering a decent 2-3 year deal. I can also see Cabrera taking said deal to show the Sox other teams are perfectly happy to have his services.

LoveYourSuit
12-04-2008, 02:03 AM
Might be OC and his agent trying to make other teams up their offers to him.

goon
12-04-2008, 02:05 AM
"Oh no! We might be stuck with one of the top offensive shortstops in baseball on our team next year!"

I totally loved watching him one hop routine throws over to first base.

Smell you later, Orlando. Smell you later forever.

guillensdisciple
12-04-2008, 02:13 AM
I totally loved watching him one hop routine throws over to first base.

Smell you later, Orlando. Smell you later forever.

I think he was talking about Alexei, because they were talking about Alexei's fielding.

Konerko05
12-04-2008, 02:15 AM
Might be OC and his agent trying to make other teams up their offers to him.

That is most likely the case. Or it's just Rosenthal talking out of his ass.

cws05champ
12-04-2008, 07:35 AM
No argument. But Alexei to my eye, was capable of great plays on a routine basis .. Cabrera was a surprise when he made a great play.
Spectacular plays are nice, but I want someone who makes most of the routine plays. OC does this at SS and is seemingly an offensive improvement over any platoon we would field at 2B if Alexei were moved to short.

Lukin13
12-04-2008, 07:35 AM
While I will be suprised if Cabrera accepts arbitration; I would like to point out that SEVERAL players that seem like no-brainers for muli-year deals, were not offered arbitration by their respective teams.

Some GMs must have a hunch that many of these guys would take a one year deal and see how the economy rebounds.

While I am not a huge OC fan this would be a fantastic scenario for the White Sox.

chaotic8512
12-04-2008, 08:01 AM
My only concern is that this leaves Alexei at second for a second year, stunting his development at short for when Beckham takes over second in 2010... I was looking forward to the idea of seeing him play short too. However, OC would obviously still be a very good option, and we really don't seem to be acquiring any quality MI, so in that light, it is a very good scenario.

Over By There
12-04-2008, 08:40 AM
I would welcome OC back. Not with open arms, but I would welcome him back. It just makes sense. We have a hole at 2nd or SS in 2009 as things stand. We have decent prospects that could help the situation, but they won't be ready for at least a year, realistically. So if we want to win, how does this hurt us?

I think that if OC accepts arbitration, then the rumors of how bad he is around the clubhouse will have been overstated. If it was that bad, I don't think he'd bother coming back for even a year. The economy is bad, but I don't see how he doesn't get a decent multi-year offer. And there's no guarantee the economy is going to be any better 12 months from now, let's face it.

Thome25
12-04-2008, 08:49 AM
My only concern is that this leaves Alexei at second for a second year, stunting his development at short for when Beckham takes over second in 2010... I was looking forward to the idea of seeing him play short too. However, OC would obviously still be a very good option, and we really don't seem to be acquiring any quality MI, so in that light, it is a very good scenario.


Why not leave Alexei at 2B and let Beckham play SS when he's ready?

SoxFan88
12-04-2008, 09:05 AM
Why not leave Alexei at 2B and let Beckham play SS when he's ready?


What is the word defensively about Beckham vs. Alexei? If he isn't a liability (think about a combo of a bad SS and Fields at 3B) then keep Beckham at SS

voodoochile
12-04-2008, 11:31 AM
Well, the Renteira deal is back on again - 2 years $18.5M. I wonder if that impacts OC's thinking. Statistically Renteira is a slightly better hitter - bit better pop and a bit better patience. It's not dramatic from a career stats perspective, but ER's had a couple of monster seasons compared to OC's best.

OC is also a year older and their defensive stats are similar.

OC could proably get $11M+ from the Sox in arbitration this year - he's definitely due for a raise. I think the Sox threat to bench him is a bunch of hot air - no way they pay that much money to sit the guy.

I'd say the odds are actually going up that OC accepts...

sox1970
12-04-2008, 11:33 AM
Well, the Renteira deal is back on again - 2 years $18.5M. I wonder if that impacts OC's thinking. Statistically Renteira is a slightly better hitter - bit better pop and a bit better patience. It's not dramatic from a career stats perspective, but ER's had a couple of monster seasons compared to OC's best.

OC is also a year older and their defensive stats are similar.

OC could proably get $11M+ from the Sox in arbitration this year - he's definitely due for a raise. I think the Sox threat to bench him is a bunch of hot air - no way they pay that much money to sit the guy.

I'd say the odds are actually going up that OC accepts...

Frightening.

BainesHOF
12-04-2008, 11:43 AM
Word is Cabrera's not attracting much interest and that he could accept arbitration by Sunday.

Oops!

Of course, that would be a major burn on us. We offered Cabrera arbitration strictly to receive a couple draft picks when he signed with another team. There's no way Kenny wanted the shortstop's weird, selfish attitude to return.

In any case, be prepared to see more pointless steal attempts of third base in 2009.

hi im skot
12-04-2008, 11:44 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=107988

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world...

soxinem1
12-04-2008, 11:50 AM
http://www.geekwear.biz/TomJones.jpg

'Why, why, why, Orlando.........'

btrain929
12-04-2008, 11:52 AM
Word is Cabrera's not attracting much interest and that he could accept arbitration by Sunday.

.....from where? Or are you just guesstimating based on teams signing other SS's?

russ99
12-04-2008, 11:53 AM
This is all Rosenthal's spectulation

Agree. I still think it's real doubtful he accepts arb. I'd say something like 5-10%.

And if Orlando somehow does come back, he knows what's asked of him and what to expect from Ozzie this time, so the end result could be a bit different. The guy can play and he's a gamer, so I have no problems if he returns to the Sox.

Also, if Kenny's not planning on using Getz/Lillibridge/Nix at 2B, he may be a better option that what we could get on the open market anyway...

BainesHOF
12-04-2008, 11:54 AM
.....from where? Or are you just guesstimating based on teams signing other SS's?

Per Steve Stone on the Score Thursday.

Update: Cabrera told the Score there's "a slight chance" that he'll return to the Sox.

longtimesoxguy
12-04-2008, 11:57 AM
I have absolutely no problem with this. The man can play!!!!! And he wants to win. Him in the line up is much better than Getz.

PalehosePlanet
12-04-2008, 12:41 PM
Jack Wilson was just acquired by the Tigers; Renteria it seems is signing w/the Giants afterall. If Furcal gets a 4th year from the A's, that's where he'll probably wind up.

This leaves the Dodgers as the most likely destination for OC. I don't see the twinkees offering more than the Dodgers. Possible dark horse teams in the mix: The Oriloles?

I'd prefer him to leave, but if he stays it doesn't hurt us.

BainesHOF
12-04-2008, 12:44 PM
Kenny is trying to scare off Cabrera from accepting the arbitration offer. He told OC that he will sit on the bench even though he'd receive $9 million through arbitration in 2009.

It looks like the situation has turned into a high-stakes poker game.

sox1970
12-04-2008, 12:46 PM
Kenny is trying to scare off Cabrera from accepting the arbitration offer. He told OC that he will sit on the bench even though he'd receive $9 million through arbitration in 2009.

It looks like the situation has turned into a high-stakes poker game.

I heard that on the Score. I guess Kenny had a 30-minute press conference a little while ago.

That's classic.

DirtySox
12-04-2008, 12:50 PM
Haha Awesome.

Is there a link where I can read/hear such a thing?

sox1970
12-04-2008, 12:51 PM
Haha Awesome.

Is their a link where I can read/hear such a thing?

It'll more than likely be on whitesox.com shortly.

btrain929
12-04-2008, 12:51 PM
I heard that on the Score. I guess Kenny had a 30-minute press conference a little while ago.

That's classic.

I wanna hear, I wanna hear!

SoxyStu
12-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Kenny is trying to scare off Cabrera from accepting the arbitration offer. He told OC that he will sit on the bench even though he'd receive $9 million through arbitration in 2009.

It looks like the situation has turned into a high-stakes poker game.

Fantastic! I think Kenny is stubborn enough to actually go through with this. Then, OC can try like hell to get a decent offer in 2010. Ha!

How could the union sit back and allow this to happen?

soxpride724
12-04-2008, 01:03 PM
Fantastic! I think Kenny is stubborn enough to actually go through with this. Then, OC can try like hell to get a decent offer in 2010. Ha!

How could the union sit back and allow this to happen?

Yeah but to eat 9 mil while a good player sits on the bench, just to prove a point.

russ99
12-04-2008, 01:06 PM
Yeah but to eat 9 mil while a good player sits on the bench, just to prove a point.

That's pretty bullheaded. I wonder what else Kenny had to say, especially concerning the "R" word...

thedudeabides
12-04-2008, 01:21 PM
I have been thinking all week that Kenny really can't pull the trigger on any FA aquisitions or add to payroll through a trade until this plays out. I know some people seem to be happy he would be coming back, but he has clearly worn out his welcome here. The bigger problem is it's going to eat up $10 million of payroll when the Sox have moved forward. It's already been stated the Sox plan on cutting payroll, so this could possibly hinder any deals they may have been planning on.

If Renteria can get a 2 yr deal, it's amazing that OC isn't generating any interest. Renteria looked finished last year. Orlando's reputation must really be catching up with him, if this is the case. :o:

2906
12-04-2008, 01:27 PM
If Renteria can get a 2 yr deal, it's amazing that OC isn't generating any interest. Renteria looked finished last year. Orlando's reputation must really be catching up with him, if this is the case. :o:

Just a guess on my part ... I think there's interest but not for the years (3) he wants. Probably the money too.

Cincinnati would be another dark horse, but they're not known for spending sprees.

But the options have narrowed. St. Louis with Greene, Detroit with Wilson, SF with Renteria, and wherever Furcal lands have limited things for OC.

NLaloosh
12-04-2008, 01:33 PM
not gonna happen

renteria just got $ 18 mil. cabrera will get atleast that

cabrera doesn't want to play for the sox and he knows the sox don't want him to play for them so......

why would it happen? It won't.

SoxyStu
12-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Yeah but to eat 9 mil while a good player sits on the bench, just to prove a point.

If he wouldn't get the pieces he wants in a trade after OC hypothetically accepts (which would probably happen as teams would use it to plumet the price for OC), I could totally see it. His ego, the $ that has already been dumped? It will be very interesting to see just how much control KW has in this organization if this plays out as such (I really don't think it will, though).

BadBobbyJenks
12-04-2008, 04:26 PM
What is killing OC, is teams are hesitant to give up two first rounders for a borderline "type A" player.

soxinem1
12-04-2008, 06:31 PM
Just a guess on my part ... I think there's interest but not for the years (3) he wants. Probably the money too.

Cincinnati would be another dark horse, but they're not known for spending sprees.

But the options have narrowed. St. Louis with Greene, Detroit with Wilson, SF with Renteria, and wherever Furcal lands have limited things for OC.

Has this been confirmed? As of tonight, CBS Sportsline says LAD wanted PIT to pay most of his salary:

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/11152402

Craig Grebeck
12-04-2008, 06:34 PM
What is killing OC, is teams are hesitant to give up two first rounders for a borderline "type A" player.
Teams only have to give up one first rounder, and that's only if it's pick 16 or higher.

Brian26
12-04-2008, 06:37 PM
You can bet Cabrera won't be with the Sox next season whether he accepts arbitration or not.

DumpJerry
12-04-2008, 06:45 PM
Kenny is trying to scare off Cabrera from accepting the arbitration offer. He told OC that he will sit on the bench even though he'd receive $9 million through arbitration in 2009.

It looks like the situation has turned into a high-stakes poker game.

Haha Awesome.

Is there a link where I can read/hear such a thing?
Chanel 5 had a sound clip of Kenny saying that Alexei is playing Short next year, one of the "young guys" will be Second and Cabrera will be utility if he accepts Arb. Paul Faris said she would not mind being a utility infielder for $9,000,000. I agree, I would not mind it, either.

Craig Grebeck
12-04-2008, 06:49 PM
Chanel 5 had a sound clip of Kenny saying that Alexei is playing Short next year, one of the "young guys" will be Second and Cabrera will be utility if he accepts Arb. Paul Faris said she would not mind being a utility infielder for $9,000,000. I agree, I would not mind it, either.
Kenny is not telling the truth, that's for sure. OC will be traded if he accepts.