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View Full Version : Should the White Sox add a starter and, if so, who?


cards press box
12-03-2008, 05:23 PM
Let me throw out a name: Andy Pettitte. The case for signing Pettitte: (a) the Yanks did not offer arbitration to Pettitte and, thus, signing him would not cost the White Sox draft picks, (b) no team will likely give Pettitte anything more than a 1 year contract, (c) he pitched O.K. last year and (d) Pettitte still has a great pickoff move and would give the Sox perhaps four lefty starters who could control the running game of other teams, such as Minnesota.

Any thoughts?

cbrownson13
12-03-2008, 05:29 PM
Pettitte told the Yankees he didn't want to sign for less than the $16mil he made last year. No way are the Yankees going to spend that, let alone the White Sox.

He's also said it's either New York or retirement. Although Houston has been rumored to bring him back. Either way, I don't see the White Sox spending the money or Pettitte wanting to play here.

Tekijawa
12-03-2008, 05:33 PM
Either Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano, Jake Peavey, or Brandon Webb. Maybe all of them.

cards press box
12-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Pettitte told the Yankees he didn't want to sign for less than the $16mil he made last year. No way are the Yankees going to spend that, let alone the White Sox.

He's also said it's either New York or retirement. Although Houston has been rumored to bring him back. Either way, I don't see the White Sox spending the money or Pettitte wanting to play here.

I agree that the Sox would not spend $16 million for one year of Pettitte. But that figure is what he wants; it's not where the market is. If the Yankees are unwilling to pay him $16 million (and apparently they won't, as they would not risk Pettitte accepting an arbitration offer), then the market figure is probably much lower. In fact, the market price for one year of Pettitte may very well be less than the $11.5 million that the Braves now owe Javier Vazquez for 2009.

If Pettitte will only sign with the Yanks or Houston, then discussion of any other team signing him is a moot point. There have been rumors in the past week that the Dodgers are considering making Pettitte an offer so who knows? Other teams like the White Sox may also be in the mix.

cards press box
12-03-2008, 05:58 PM
Either Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano, Jake Peavey, or Brandon Webb. Maybe all of them.

Uh, I was referring to pitchers that the Sox could possibly add through either free agency or a realistic trade. As it turns out, the Padres have been shopping Peavy and he could be acquired for the right price. Peavy has expressed a preference for staying in the National league and I'm sure that the Padres' asking price is steep. I don't expect that the Sox will acquire him.

Other free agent starters are available, such as Ben Sheets, Jon Garland and Randy Johnson. Does anyone have a preference among these pitchers?

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Other teams like the White Sox may also be in the mix.
Nope.

gr8mexico
12-03-2008, 06:04 PM
I would look to add Pedro Martinez , Brad Penney , Randy Johnson or Carl Pavano if they came cheap.

kkappelk
12-03-2008, 06:06 PM
Cy Young

cards press box
12-03-2008, 06:12 PM
Nope.

Any reason for this certainty? For all we know, the Cardinals or the Brewers or some other team or teams could make an offer for Pettitte that he might entertain.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 06:16 PM
Any reason for this certainty? For all we know, the Cardinals or the Brewers or some other team or teams could make an offer for Pettitte that he might entertain.
Not really. The Dodgers aren't the Cards or Brewers, his reasoning for considering them is quite clear.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-03-2008, 06:31 PM
I would look to add Pedro Martinez , Brad Penney , Randy Johnson or Carl Pavano if they came cheap.

I'd rather sign a position player and make him start tham have Pavano play on the team.

soxrepublican
12-03-2008, 06:41 PM
Bobby Jenks.

SoxNation05
12-03-2008, 07:07 PM
Free Agency: Sheets or Penny
Trade: Mike Pelfrey

cards press box
12-03-2008, 07:08 PM
Bobby Jenks.

That is a really interesting idea. Jenks has become at least a three (if not four) pitch pitcher. In addition to the fastball and curve, his slider and change have become more effective.

It's a buyer's market for closers. The Sox could sign an available closer (the local media might lose their collective mind if the Sox signed Kerry Wood), promote Jon Link from Birmingham and start Bobby Jenks.

Wow. I don't know if this is being considered but it is definitely interesting.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 07:24 PM
That is a really interesting idea. Jenks has become at least a three (if not four) pitch pitcher. In addition to the fastball and curve, his slider and change have become more effective.

It's a buyer's market for closers. The Sox could sign an available closer (the local media might lose their collective mind if the Sox signed Kerry Wood), promote Jon Link from Birmingham and start Bobby Jenks.

Wow. I don't know if this is being considered but it is definitely interesting.
It isn't -- and with good reason.

kittle42
12-03-2008, 07:34 PM
It isn't -- and with good reason.

Plus, he was kidding.

stacksedwards
12-03-2008, 07:36 PM
ricky vaughn

cards press box
12-03-2008, 07:50 PM
It isn't -- and with good reason.

It's not as crazy a concept as you might think. John Smoltz went back and forth from starting to relieving and, if Smoltz returns from his current injury, it will almost certainly be as a reliever. I know that Jenks had arm trouble as a starter in the Angels system but he didn't have four pitches at that time.

Look, I don't think that the Sox should move Jenks out of the closer role. I just think it's an interesting concept, although one I wouldn't propose.

Here's a question: who is your Sox rotation for 2009? At this point, I would start Buerhle/Floyd/Danks/Richard/Marquez. The last two pitchers are prospects with almost no major league experience so I would hope the Sox would add one veteran to stablize this staff. Yes, Contreras may return in mid-season but that seems awfully tenative right now.

Plus, he was kidding.

I'm not sure about that. If he was, see above comment.

Free Agency: Sheets or Penny
Trade: Mike Pelfrey

Given their recent injuries, signing Sheets or Penny would be a gamble but maybe a good one. Mike Pelfrey pitched great for the Mets last year. I can't imagine the Mets giving him up unless the teams made a blockbuster deal. A free agent signing of Randy Johnson or Jon Garland on reasonable terms would be interesting, too.

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2008, 08:05 PM
I think the Sox definately need to add at LEAST one starter and possibly two. One guy I wouldn't mind taking a chance on is Ben Sheets.

Lukin13
12-03-2008, 08:07 PM
I like your reasoning for adding another LH SP, most here seem to disagree but never have any real reasoning behind their opinion other than Miguel Cabrera being right handed.

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 08:25 PM
Cc

BNLSox
12-03-2008, 08:32 PM
Bring Garland back. He's reliable and we don't have to buy new jerseys.

SoxFan88
12-03-2008, 08:37 PM
Curious to see how much Sheets is looking for... Buerhrle, Sheets, Danks, and Floyd would allow the Sox to test their young arms in the 5th spot (Richard, Broadway, Poreda,...... Homer Bailey?)

whitesox901
12-03-2008, 08:42 PM
Curious to see how much Sheets is looking for... Buerhrle, Sheets, Danks, and Floyd would allow the Sox to test their young arms in the 5th spot (Richard, Broadway, Poreda,...... Homer Bailey?)

Ya know, I know alot of people dont want Sheet because he's on the DL alot, but I still wanna give him a chance. I agree with you Soxfan88

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 09:11 PM
Bring Garland back. He's reliable and we don't have to buy new jerseys.

Please, Garland is worse than Javy, by a pretty good shot, and will cost more

Curious to see how much Sheets is looking for... Buerhrle, Sheets, Danks, and Floyd would allow the Sox to test their young arms in the 5th spot (Richard, Broadway, Poreda,...... Homer Bailey?)

Not against Sheets, but if you have been following, Poreda is being turned into a reliever, he does not have the secondary pitches to be a starter.

SoxFan88
12-03-2008, 09:16 PM
Not against Sheets, but if you have been following, Poreda is being turned into a reliever, he does not have the secondary pitches to be a starter.


I know... but he has been a starter so far in the minors so i just threw his name in there... which young pitcher would everyone be hoping to see be used in the 5th spot?

BadBobbyJenks
12-03-2008, 09:17 PM
What is the deal with Brad Penny, how long will he be out for in 2009?

SoxNation05
12-03-2008, 09:24 PM
What is the deal with Brad Penny, how long will he be out for in 2009?
I wasn't under the impression he was injured?

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 09:27 PM
I know... but he has been a starter so far in the minors so i just threw his name in there... which young pitcher would everyone be hoping to see be used in the 5th spot?

Homer for me. Poreda and Richard both belong in the bullpen. I think this is a make or break year for Broadway, because every year he takes a step closer to "another Kenny Williams first round bust" status. Marquez, it all depends really. He will compete, but the guys ceiling is not that high. His sinker is good to keep the ball in our park, but nothing about him says anything special.

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 09:34 PM
I would like to see the Sox sign Kenshin Kawakami and make a trade for Erik Bedard..

Kawakami might be lighting in a bottle.. I don't think it will take much to get Bedard since the Marniers aren't to happy with him and he is coming off shoulder surgery...

guillensdisciple
12-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Jamie Moyer for a year or two, allowing development time for the younger talent.

NLaloosh
12-03-2008, 09:39 PM
All I know is that they need 2 more starters and they shouldn't be named Jeff Marquez, Clayton Richard or Aaron Poreda.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:43 PM
Homer for me. Poreda and Richard both belong in the bullpen. I think this is a make or break year for Broadway, because every year he takes a step closer to "another Kenny Williams first round bust" status. Marquez, it all depends really. He will compete, but the guys ceiling is not that high. His sinker is good to keep the ball in our park, but nothing about him says anything special.
This makes me more anxious for Poreda to debut. His floor, at this point, is a bullpen pitcher.

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 09:56 PM
This makes me more anxious for Poreda to debut. His floor, at this point, is a bullpen pitcher.

It is just where he projects. His ceiling was mid rotation SP, but his secondary pitches made very little progress. Him going to the AFL and being used as a reliever was incredibly telling. If the Sox viewed him as a starter, he would be down in triple A this year trying to learn again how to throw his slider and curve. I think he will be a fine reliever, and Ultimately may take over for Jenks as the closer, but Starting Pitcher he is not.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 09:57 PM
It is just where he projects. His ceiling was mid rotation SP, but his secondary pitches made very little progress. Him going to the AFL and being used as a reliever was incredibly telling. If the Sox viewed him as a starter, he would be down in triple A this year trying to learn again how to throw his slider and curve. I think he will be a fine reliever, and Ultimately may take over for Jenks as the closer, but Starting Pitcher he is not.
You don't really know how the AFL works, do you?

Edit: Not to be a dick, but he was used as a reliever to get him some (in terms of innings, not many) work and because the front office wanted to see what Harrell could do.

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 10:03 PM
You don't really know how the AFL works, do you?

Edit: Not to be a dick, but he was used as a reliever to get him some (in terms of innings, not many) work and because the front office wanted to see what Harrell could do.

Slice it any way you want, he isn't a starting pitcher. I know they were hoping Harrell could figure out his slider and wanted him to start. But if you think Poreda being exclusively an RP in the AFL, along with the news he may make the roster as a reliever (no mention he could compete for a rotation spot) is just a big coincidence maybe you don't get how it all works together? It shows how the sox see him (and rightfully). There are 2 reasons starting pitching prospects start in the bullpen for big league clubs. Either they have their stuff developed fully and are being brought along, or they are about maxed in terms of potential, and that is where they end up. Poreda may not be maxed, but putting him in the bullpen to try and develop his pitches, it isn't how Ozzie and Coop work, and he won't be in the bullpen unless that is where he is staying.

He has had next to no development on his breaking pitches, and his slider, at best, is just a change of pace pitch.

SoxNation05
12-03-2008, 10:14 PM
Jamie Moyer for a year or two, allowing development time for the younger talent.
When you say talent.....

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 10:15 PM
here is an article that speculates that the Sox might be a sleeper for Peavy..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88456-chicago-white-sox-a-sleeper-for-jake-peavy

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:16 PM
here is an article that speculates that the Sox might be a sleeper for Peavy..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88456-chicago-white-sox-a-sleeper-for-jake-peavy
This was written by a banker. Please.

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 10:18 PM
This was written by a banker. Please.


I didn't say it was going to happen or if its true.. just a Sox story about Peavy.

Peavy won't come to the AL anyway..

BadBobbyJenks
12-03-2008, 10:24 PM
I wasn't under the impression he was injured?

I thought he needed surgery, but I have not been able to find anything about that.

champagne030
12-03-2008, 10:24 PM
You don't really know how the AFL works, do you?

Edit: Not to be a dick, but he was used as a reliever to get him some (in terms of innings, not many) work and because the front office wanted to see what Harrell could do.

And they wanted to see Poreda as a reliever. It's telling he was used exclusively as a one inning guy. He's Matt Thornton part deux. He's got time to come up with some secondary stuff (if we can find two other starters for 2009), but it's not close at this point and his fastball becomes much more overpowering when he can crank it up to 97-98 when used in one inning situations vs. 92 when starting.

Yes, his floor appears to be Thornton, but his ceiling seems fairly low unless he can do some serious refinement of a secondary pitch.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:25 PM
And they wanted to see Poreda as a reliever. It's telling he was used exclusively as a one inning guy. He's Matt Thornton part deux. He's got time to come up with some secondary stuff (if we can find two other starters for 2009), but it's not close at this point and his fastball becomes much more overpowering when he can crank it up to 97-98 when used in one inning situations vs. 92 when starting.

Yes, his floor appears to be Thornton, but his ceiling seems fairly low unless he can do some serious refinement of a secondary pitch.
They didn't want to burn him out by having him throw a ton of innings.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:27 PM
Slice it any way you want, he isn't a starting pitcher. I know they were hoping Harrell could figure out his slider and wanted him to start. But if you think Poreda being exclusively an RP in the AFL, along with the news he may make the roster as a reliever (no mention he could compete for a rotation spot) is just a big coincidence maybe you don't get how it all works together? It shows how the sox see him (and rightfully). There are 2 reasons starting pitching prospects start in the bullpen for big league clubs. Either they have their stuff developed fully and are being brought along, or they are about maxed in terms of potential, and that is where they end up. Poreda may not be maxed, but putting him in the bullpen to try and develop his pitches, it isn't how Ozzie and Coop work, and he won't be in the bullpen unless that is where he is staying.

He has had next to no development on his breaking pitches, and his slider, at best, is just a change of pace pitch.
1. You completely ignored why he didn't start in the AFL. It isn't a coincidence.
2. I still have no idea where you're reading this about his slider. None whatsoever.

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 10:29 PM
1. You completely ignored why he didn't start in the AFL. It isn't a coincidence.
2. I still have no idea where you're reading this about his slider. None whatsoever.

EVERYTHING I have read talks about how his slider has come along a little, but is not nor will ever be an out pitch, and will be used as a change of pace, or a deversion pitch to his fastball, which is lethal because he can spot it and it has good movement. To me, Poreda has Closer written all over him.

and I think this Bleacher Report site is becoming lower on the food chain than MLBTRADERUMORS, its just a site where random people throw crap on the wall, it is basically a non bias WSI.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:30 PM
EVERYTHING I have read talks about how his slider has come along a little, but is not nor will ever be an out pitch, and will be used as a change of pace, or a deversion pitch to his fastball, which is lethal because he can spot it and it has good movement. To me, Poreda has Closer written all over him.
I can't find this.

BadBobbyJenks
12-03-2008, 10:35 PM
"The high velocity with the impeccable command has always been part of the package," the scout said. "The breaking ball has improved. It will never be a weapon, but it is becoming a diversion, especially alongside the heater.

An anonymous AL scout had that to say about Poreda in a Mark Gonzalez article about a month ago. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-11-whitesox-chicagonov11,0,2907010.story

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 10:35 PM
I can't find this.

this is from a scout watching him along with Champion and Bell

The high velocity with the impeccable command has always been part of the package," the scout said. "The breaking ball has improved. It will never be a weapon, but it is becoming a diversion, especially alongside the heater.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:47 PM
this is from a scout watching him along with Champion and Bell
Again, it still doesn't mean he can't start in the major leagues.

Domeshot17
12-03-2008, 10:54 PM
Again, it still doesn't mean he can't start in the major leagues.

not many starters succeed with just average breakers and changeups, not matter how good the fastball is. Like I said, I hope I am wrong, but in my opinion, Poreda is destined be a very good reliever, maybe even a a strong closer, just not a guy who can dominate as a starter in the bigs. 90% of hitters in the Majors can hit a 96 mph fastball when they know its coming.

Thome25
12-04-2008, 09:00 AM
Bring Garland back. He's reliable and we don't have to buy new jerseys.

Someone out there would have to buy a new jersey. Either Quentin or Garland would have to change their number because they both can't wear #20. So which jersey wearer would have to buy a new one? The Garland owner or the Quentin owner?:D:

ChiSoxFan81
12-04-2008, 11:01 AM
Cc

I agree that we should clone Candy Cummings.

Short of that, I'd go for Looper or Ponson.

PalehosePlanet
12-04-2008, 11:22 AM
not many starters succeed with just average breakers and changeups, not matter how good the fastball is. Like I said, I hope I am wrong, but in my opinion, Poreda is destined be a very good reliever, maybe even a a strong closer, just not a guy who can dominate as a starter in the bigs. 90% of hitters in the Majors can hit a 96 mph fastball when they know its coming.

Curt Schilling would disagree with you. A well placed fastball is still the best pitch in baseball.

Also, there is still plenty of time to refine his secondary pitches. Randy Johnson, a 300 game winning 2-pitch pitcher, couldn't throw a strike with his slider until he was 27 years old.

I guess I just don't understand why so many posters on WSI have already decided Poreda will be an RP. I agree that if he were to come north with us right now, he would be better suited for the pen, but there is no need to rush him.

As for possible FA pitchers, I think Sheets is the most affordable, high reward SP out there. I think he is worth the gamble on a 3/39-45 year deal.

rowand33
12-04-2008, 11:55 AM
Yes the Sox should add a starter. My preference is The Big Unit.

NLaloosh
12-04-2008, 12:02 PM
here is an article that speculates that the Sox might be a sleeper for Peavy..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88456-chicago-white-sox-a-sleeper-for-jake-peavy


Whomever wrote this was on hallucinogenics. The Sox didn't even get a starting pitcher from Atlanta in which to move to San Diego as the writer suggested.

Never mind that there a half-dozen other reasons why it's obvious that the Sox won't make this move.

KenBerryGrab
12-04-2008, 12:05 PM
With all this saved salary, why not Lowe? I know they won't go five years on a starter, but Lowe's downward moving stuff would play well at U.S. Comiskular.

spawn
12-04-2008, 12:23 PM
Christy Matthewson.

gr8mexico
12-04-2008, 12:25 PM
Whomever wrote this was on hallucinogenics. The Sox didn't even get a starting pitcher from Atlanta in which to move to San Diego as the writer suggested.

Never mind that there a half-dozen other reasons why it's obvious that the Sox won't make this move.
The guy wrote the article before the trade was finalized.
But I think the Sox do have better prospects now to offer then the Cubs.

doublem23
12-04-2008, 12:25 PM
here is an article that speculates that the Sox might be a sleeper for Peavy..

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/88456-chicago-white-sox-a-sleeper-for-jake-peavy

BR is an open source network, and therefore has absolutely no credibility. Any schmo can get published on BR if they want.

PalehosePlanet
12-04-2008, 01:05 PM
With all this saved salary, why not Lowe? I know they won't go five years on a starter, but Lowe's downward moving stuff would play well at U.S. Comiskular.

Scott Boras.

Scottiehaswheels
12-06-2008, 11:11 AM
I don't know if it has happened or not but Daniel Cabrera was possibly non-tendered by the Orioles.... Wasn't KW hot after this guy a couple years ago? Not saying I like the idea, just one of those things we might see....

Tragg
12-06-2008, 11:26 AM
All I know is that they need 2 more starters and they shouldn't be named Jeff Marquez, Clayton Richard or Aaron Poreda.
But those 3 battling for the 5th starter spot, with the others going into the pen to get experience and to bolster the pen is pretty strong.
We need a 4th starter.


And we don't need to chase more bullpen pitchers....this organization has spent enough on middle relievers and utility infielders. It looks like this year we should have a solid pen with Jenks, Thornton, Dotel, Linebrink, 2 of the 3 above and I guess one more person.