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View Full Version : What Is KW Up To?...We Have A Surplus Of Young Infielders.


Thome25
12-03-2008, 09:29 AM
The White Sox currently have Brent Lillibridge, Josh Fields, Wilson Betemit, Alexei Ramirez, Jayson Nix, Chris Getz, Dayan Viciedo, and Gordon Beckham isn't that far away either.

That means we have three guys who can play 3B in Viciedo, Fields, and Betemit, three who can play SS in Ramirez, Beckham and Lillibridge, and two who can play 2nd base in Nix and Getz.

Which one of these guys can switch to 1B? I believe Konerko is on the way out.

What are we going to do with all of these young infielders? What does KW have up his sleeve?

THANKS for posting!!

ChiSoxFan81
12-03-2008, 09:38 AM
I believe he's stockpiling to make a big move.

Thome25
12-03-2008, 09:43 AM
I believe he's stockpiling to make a big move.


Or maybe he's stockpiling knowing that not all of these guys will pan out as good major leaguers. Quantity=a couple of quality guys.

doublem23
12-03-2008, 10:01 AM
Or maybe he's stockpiling knowing that not all of these guys will pan out as good major leaguers. Quantity=a couple of quality guys.

Yeah, of that list, right now Alexei, Viciedo, and Beckham look like quality players on good teams. Getz.. Maybe. Nix, Lillidge, Fields, and Betemit are all glorified garbage.

BTW, you didn't mention one of the Sox's hottest IF prospects...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/508890577_a4e6ec115d.jpg?v=0
My name is Brandon Allen. You'll get to know me.

Rockabilly
12-03-2008, 10:03 AM
Now I hope KW can add a few young star OF and pitchers..

GAsoxfan
12-03-2008, 10:08 AM
Viciedo has played some RF hasn't he? Maybe he's Dye's eventual replacement.

Thome25
12-03-2008, 10:10 AM
Yeah, of that list, right now Alexei, Viciedo, and Beckham look like quality players on good teams. Getz.. Maybe. Nix, Lillidge, Fields, and Betemit are all glorified garbage.

BTW, you didn't mention one of the Sox's hottest IF prospects...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/508890577_a4e6ec115d.jpg?v=0
My name is Brandon Allen. You'll get to know me.

This is the first I'm hearing of this Brandon Allen of which you speak.:D: Is Lillibridge really garbage?

doublem23
12-03-2008, 10:13 AM
This is the first I'm hearing of this Brandon Allen of which you speak.:D: Is Lillibridge really garbage?

At best, he's in Chris Getz "this guy might be OK" territory. Fast, though.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/L/Brent-Lillibridge.shtml

palehozenychicty
12-03-2008, 10:18 AM
Who knows what will happen, but it's intriguing. All of these guys have abilities that this team didn't have last season, so if half of them become regulars, we are all the better for it.

If they finangle the payroll enough to sign a premier FA pitcher out of nowhere, I wouldn't be shocked at all.

Thome25
12-03-2008, 10:24 AM
Who knows what will happen, but it's intriguing. All of these guys have abilities that this team didn't have last season, so if half of them become regulars, we are all the better for it.

If they finangle the payroll enough to sign a premier FA pitcher out of nowhere, I wouldn't be shocked at all.

While I'd love to see the Sox sign a FA pitcher I don't think that'll happen. Most if not all of the worthwhile FA starters out there want contacts of 5+ years. That is not going to happen as long as KW is the GM and JR is the owner.

Also, we probably won't be in the market for any big-name free agent at all. The last time the Sox signed a big-name FA was 12 years ago and his name was Albert Belle.

As much as I'd hate to write it, the Sox usually improve by growing players from within, by making trades, and by signing the middle of the road FA's who KW ends up turning into gold. They have proven time and again that this is their approach and that it works pretty damn good.

russ99
12-03-2008, 10:30 AM
Viciedo has played some RF hasn't he? Maybe he's Dye's eventual replacement.

Maybe a few years down the road. But I'd doubt Viciedo breaks camp with the big club this season.

I wonder if we'll see Lillibridge at 3B and Fields in LF?

Marqhead
12-03-2008, 10:31 AM
Maybe a few years down the road. But I'd doubt Viciedo breaks camp with the big club this season.

I wonder if we'll see Lillibridge at 3B and Fields in LF?

Oh please God no...

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:32 AM
I'd hesitate to call Fields glorified garbage. At least he's useful in a platoon. Lillibridge, on the other hand...

russ99
12-03-2008, 10:35 AM
I'd hesitate to call Fields glorified garbage. At least he's useful in a platoon. Lillibridge, on the other hand...

As another posted said, Lillibridge could turn out to be a poor man's Figgins at 3B. He played there with the Braves this season. The kid's got pretty good speed and did well defensively at SS. The question is how good he'd be at getting on base.

Also Betemit could hold down 3B, but I see him more valuable as a utility guy.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:36 AM
As another posted said, Lillibridge could turn out to be a poor man's Figgins at 3B. He played there with the Braves this season. The kid's got pretty good speed and did very well defensively at SS.

Also Betemit could hold down 3B, but I see him more valuable as a utility guy.
1. Lillibridge has been horrid in the high minor leagues.
2. Betemit has no value as a utility man, unless you're talking about the corners. He gives me nightmares in the middle infield.

Thome25
12-03-2008, 10:37 AM
WOW 2009 is going to be very interesting to say the least. I just realized that a few of these guys can play multiple positions so, well probably see a competition at several positions in spring training. The result will be a VERY young team next year.

NLaloosh
12-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Well, firstly most of these guys are not ready right now.

SS- Ramirez but the Sox had no backup, thus Lillibridge. He's ML ready.

2B- Getz and Nix - one probably stays and the other is in Charlotte.

(Beckham might get a taste in Sept. but he's not ready either)

3b- Viciedo is not ready. Probably, Betemit vs. Fields here. If Konerko is traded Fields might play 1b.

It really doesn't look like much of a surplus right now.

ON THE OTHER HAND, Kenny could be looking to continue down this road trading another 2 or more from Dye, Konerko, Jenks and Thome. We know that Dye is going for pitching.

But, there are 3 other possible scenarios. Kenny might be completely rebuilding by trading all the vets.

Or, he might trade a couple more and use some of the prospects to trade for an established star. Or, he might be clearing cap room to sign a FA or two. Or, some combination of the above.

You really never know. The good thing is that it's the right time to trade all 4 of those guys. We just have to hope that he gets some stars in the making back.

esbrechtel
12-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Maybe a few years down the road. But I'd doubt Viciedo breaks camp with the big club this season.

I wonder if we'll see Lillibridge at 3B and Fields in LF?

:mg:

guillensdisciple
12-03-2008, 10:40 AM
1. Lillibridge has been horrid in the high minor leagues.
2. Betemit has no value as a utility man, unless you're talking about the corners. He gives me nightmares in the middle infield.

Didn't Lillibridge suffer his first bad year in the high minors last year?
Speed like that has to be given a chance, especially if it has shown signs of development. I have a feeling Kenny has BIG plans for this guy, probably lead-off type plans.

sox1970
12-03-2008, 10:43 AM
The Lillibridge acquisition really has me :scratch:.

To me, Kenny got him because he wants to play him now. Otherwise, he probably could have made the trade and got a pitcher or a couple more lower level prospects.

It's just very interesting they have Getz, Nix, Lillibridge, and Ramirez sitting there--with a very high prospect in Gordon Beckham definitely in the plans.

So it should be interesting if someone gets traded next week in a bigger deal.

Craig Grebeck
12-03-2008, 10:43 AM
Didn't Lillibridge suffer his first bad year in the high minors last year?
Speed like that has to be given a chance, especially if it has shown signs of development. I have a feeling Kenny has BIG plans for this guy, probably lead-off type plans.
Why? He can't hit. He has tapered off year after year after A ball. His strength was patience and power, and both have dwindled over the years. I don't care about his legs, what kind of bat does he have?

btrain929
12-03-2008, 10:47 AM
1. Lillibridge has been horrid in the high minor leagues.
2. Betemit has no value as a utility man, unless you're talking about the corners. He gives me nightmares in the middle infield.

He's only had 2 years of ball at AA or higher: 1 year was average to slightly above average, and 1 year was just bad.

Didn't Lillibridge suffer his first bad year in the high minors last year?
Speed like that has to be given a chance, especially if it has shown signs of development. I have a feeling Kenny has BIG plans for this guy, probably lead-off type plans.

I agree. A guy who puts up back-to-back lines of:

.305/.419/13HR/71RBI/53SB's (I know, I know, it's A Ball), and
.282/.341/13HR/58RBI/42SB's

....has to be given more than 1 year to dismiss him as a failure.

PS: Disciple, shouldn't your sig be "tying run at second, 2 outs..." ??

NLaloosh
12-03-2008, 11:40 AM
Lillibridge is the one guy that I like in the deal. He's the only legit shortstop the Sox have after Ramirez, who himself hasn't proven yet that he can handle the spot.

Atleast Lillibridge is ready now to help the Sox in 2009. The other 3 guys might never but are atleast 1-2 years away.

doublem23
12-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Atleast Lillibridge is ready now to help the Sox in 2009. The other 3 guys might never but are atleast 1-2 years away.

Do we even know who the other 2 guys are? The only 2 I've seen confirmed are Lillibridge and Flowers. These final 2 players really make or break this trade for me.

EDIT: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081202&content_id=3699498&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

God dammit, it looks like the Sox aren't getting Reyes. ***!

btrain929
12-03-2008, 11:49 AM
Do we even know who the other 2 guys are? The only 2 I've seen confirmed are Lillibridge and Flowers. These final 2 players really make or break this trade for me.

They shouldn't, but it's been reported in numerous places that the other two will be Jon Gilmore (20 year old 3B) and Santos Rodriguez (21 year old lefty reliever).

doublem23
12-03-2008, 11:53 AM
They shouldn't, but it's been reported in numerous places that the other two will be Jon Gilmore (20 year old 3B) and Santos Rodriguez (21 year old lefty reliever).

They make or break the trade for me because I was hoping to get somebody, you know, decent. Flowers is intriguing, but Lillibridge, Gilmore, and Rodriguez? Yuck.

NLaloosh
12-03-2008, 01:25 PM
I don't think that either haul that Kenny has gotten is impressive. I'm willing to wait and see but it's not like with Quentin, Danks and Floyd. Those guys were highly touted all along.

These guys are all like sleeper picks that the Sox may have some luck with. 3 of those 4 guys didn't even make the Braves top 20 prospects list.

The Sox don't get 1 sure star type prospect from the Yankees or the Braves. Flowers has probably the highest ceiling but that's if he remains at catcher and that's not looking too good.

tm1119
12-03-2008, 01:36 PM
Lillibridge will be the starting 2B for the Sox at the beginning of the 2009 season. The kid has always been a good prospect with high upside and had lived up to that until last year. Hes got good speed and D and also has some pretty good pop in his bat for a 2B. He could easily be a better version of Uribe for us next year.

And Flowers looks to be a stud that can take over for AJ or worst case scenario PK or Thome at 1b/DH within the next 2 years.

Very good reurn for an average and expensive #4 starter.

Foulke You
12-03-2008, 01:36 PM
I think KW's stockpiling of young players does two things for him:

A) restocks the farm system after the 2007 season exposed just how thin we were in the position player department
B) puts KW in a position to land an impact player via trade if the right deal comes along at the winter meetings

Thome25
12-03-2008, 01:39 PM
I don't think that either haul that Kenny has gotten is impressive. I'm willing to wait and see but it's not like with Quentin, Danks and Floyd. Those guys were highly touted all along.

These guys are all like sleeper picks that the Sox may have some luck with. 3 of those 4 guys didn't even make the Braves top 20 prospects list.

The Sox don't get 1 sure star type prospect from the Yankees or the Braves. Flowers has probably the highest ceiling but that's if he remains at catcher and that's not looking too good.


The didn't get back the prospects you're talking about in return because they gave the Yankees and Braves CRAP.

We didn't trade Johan Santana and Nick Markakis to the Braves and Yankees we gave them a mediocre pitcher who hasn't lived up to his potential in Vazquez and a player that didn't have any place to play that also batted in the .200's in Nick Swisher.

We couldn't possibly have asked for more than what we got, especially considering what we gave up in the first place.

I'm not directing this at you but, why do Sox fans on here act like every player we trade is the best ever and we deserve to rape a team for a king's ransom?

palehozenychicty
12-03-2008, 01:53 PM
The didn't get back the prospects you're talking about in return because they gave the Yankees and Braves CRAP.

We didn't trade Johan Santana and Nick Markakis to the Braves and Yankees we gave them a mediocre pitcher who hasn't lived up to his potential in Vazquez and a player that didn't have any place to play that also batted in the .200's in Nick Swisher.

We couldn't possibly have asked for more than what we got, especially considering what we gave up in the first place.

I'm not directing this at you but, why do Sox fans on here act like every player we trade is the best ever and we deserve to rape a team for a king's ransom?


I think it's just part of fandom. People overvalue known product and undervalue the unknown. I also agree that the players given up weren't difference makers nor real assets to the team.

Swisher didn't do much of anything aside for three-four weeks in June and July. Vazquez was wildly inconsistent and rarely threw well when they needed him. Sure, he was durable, but that's not enough in the postseason. For his slot as a #4 or #5, we can do better, and I'm glad that management realized this fact.

whitesox901
12-03-2008, 01:57 PM
Fields isnt garbage

jabrch
12-03-2008, 02:01 PM
Fields isnt garbage

Nor is anyone on that list with the possible exception of Nix. Garbage is a very harsh term to use for guys that young, with the potential that they have.

They may or may not materialize into anything, but that doesn't make them "garbage". That's a ridiculous term to use for any of those prospects.

whitesox901
12-03-2008, 02:02 PM
Nor is anyone on that list with the possible exception of Nix. Garbage is a very harsh term to use for guys that young, with the potential that they have.

They may or may not materialize into anything, but that doesn't make them "garbage". That's a ridiculous term to use for any of those prospects.

I like the way you think Jabrch

btrain929
12-03-2008, 02:03 PM
Nor is anyone on that list with the possible exception of Nix. Garbage is a very harsh term to use for guys that young, with the potential that they have.

They may or may not materialize into anything, but that doesn't make them "garbage". That's a ridiculous term to use for any of those prospects.

I think Broadway is garbage, but I'm just a harsh mother ****er, so pay no attention to me. :D:

doublem23
12-03-2008, 02:07 PM
Fields isnt garbage

Yes. Yes, he is.

Nor is anyone on that list with the possible exception of Nix. Garbage is a very harsh term to use for guys that young, with the potential that they have.

They may or may not materialize into anything, but that doesn't make them "garbage". That's a ridiculous term to use for any of those prospects.

No, they're all "garbage" in that anyone penciling them in to contribute in the short or long term are completely out of their mind.

You can be a prospect and be garbage at the same time.

NLaloosh
12-03-2008, 02:10 PM
The didn't get back the prospects you're talking about in return because they gave the Yankees and Braves CRAP.

We didn't trade Johan Santana and Nick Markakis to the Braves and Yankees we gave them a mediocre pitcher who hasn't lived up to his potential in Vazquez and a player that didn't have any place to play that also batted in the .200's in Nick Swisher.

We couldn't possibly have asked for more than what we got, especially considering what we gave up in the first place.

I'm not directing this at you but, why do Sox fans on here act like every player we trade is the best ever and we deserve to rape a team for a king's ransom?

Where is the Chris Young type player that the Sox gave up for Vazquez? Where is the Gio, Sweeney, De los Santos return for Swisher that was given up? We've been thru this before and it can't be proven for a few years but some of us believe that the returns from these 2 trades will not turn out to be impressive.

If you think it is, maybe you'll be proven right. Personally, I would've preferred to trade to a team willing to give up fewer prospects of better quality. Obviously, I don't know what is offered out there.

I WILL SAY that I like the Braves haul better than the Yankees.

champagne030
12-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Fields isnt garbage

He most certainly is in the field. It seems the only time he's not garbage is when facing LH pitching. That sounds a lot like Kevin Mench or, in other words, garbage.

CashMan
12-03-2008, 02:24 PM
Where is the Chris Young type player that the Sox gave up for Vazquez? Where is the Gio, Sweeney, De los Santos return for Swisher that was given up? We've been thru this before and it can't be proven for a few years but some of us believe that the returns from these 2 trades will not turn out to be impressive.

If you think it is, maybe you'll be proven right. Personally, I would've preferred to trade to a team willing to give up fewer prospects of better quality. Obviously, I don't know what is offered out there.

I WILL SAY that I like the Braves haul better than the Yankees.


What have those prospects done in the MLB?

whitesox901
12-03-2008, 02:32 PM
Is there anychance KW will go for C.C or Burnett?

btrain929
12-03-2008, 02:46 PM
Is there anychance KW will go for C.C or Burnett?

Maybe after :gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp::gulp:, but still, probably not.

CashMan
12-03-2008, 02:56 PM
Is there anychance KW will go for C.C or Burnett?


Why would you want Burnett? CC, is gonna want a HUGE payout, and unless he is guaranteeing you 18-20 wins per season, I wouldn't sign him.

chunk
12-03-2008, 02:58 PM
Where is the Chris Young type player that the Sox gave up for Vazquez? Where is the Gio, Sweeney, De los Santos return for Swisher that was given up? We've been thru this before and it can't be proven for a few years but some of us believe that the returns from these 2 trades will not turn out to be impressive.

If you think it is, maybe you'll be proven right. Personally, I would've preferred to trade to a team willing to give up fewer prospects of better quality. Obviously, I don't know what is offered out there.

I WILL SAY that I like the Braves haul better than the Yankees.

Flowers is a better prospect than Young.

hi im skot
12-03-2008, 03:18 PM
Fields isnt garbage

He is recyclable, however.

http://sub2change.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/the_more_you_know2.jpg

thomas35forever
12-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Here's how I see it. Yes, we've piled up on young infielders since the offseason began, but perhaps he's planning to involve at least a few of them in a trade that'll land us a big name. We've heard the White Sox say time and again that they'd rather land somebody through a trade than shell out millions to a free agent. Recent history suggests that this trend will continue in the front office. Besides, we've already cut salary by trading Swisher and Vazquez. I'm not saying this is a rebuilding year just yet. I might say it is if we trade Thome or if that Dye-and-Jenks-to-New York deal goes through, but it depends on what we get in return.

Long story short, in Kenny I trust.

pmck003
12-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Can KW include himself in a trade package with some of these new infielders? That would be under the radar.

veeter
12-04-2008, 08:54 AM
I believe he's stockpiling to make a big move.Me too.

Flight #24
12-04-2008, 10:37 AM
FWLIW, I saw a rumor that the Giants are considering trading Jonathan Sanchez to the Marlins for Jorge Cantu. Cantu's decent, but maybe that's another way to add a young, MLB-ready starter and using up some of the current surplus of MIFs?