PDA

View Full Version : Vazquez to Braves - details sketchy


Pages : [1] 2

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 05:14 PM
Sox may get as many as three players back, names being thrown around are Jo-Jo Reyes and Brent Lillibridge.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-look-to-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

DumpJerry
12-02-2008, 05:16 PM
Is Cummings part of this?

Rocky Soprano
12-02-2008, 05:16 PM
Love the comment:


In the past two offseasons, this guy has dealt for John Danks, Gavin Floyd and Carlos Quentin. Why do teams keep trading young, Major League ready talent to Kenny Williams?

soxfan43
12-02-2008, 05:17 PM
Sox may get as many as three players back, names being thrown around are Jo-Jo Reyes and Brent Lillibridge.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-look-to-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49


Anyone familiar with the Braves system want to comment on those 2 guys? I've def heard Reyes' name before, but I really don't know much,

oeo
12-02-2008, 05:17 PM
I'm always weary when the Braves are willing to part with young players.

veeter
12-02-2008, 05:18 PM
is cummings part of this?ptbnl

Rdy2PlayBall
12-02-2008, 05:21 PM
That deal if it's just those two and no one better looks pretty bad in my opinion. :scratch: They don't look like they can match Vazquez's stats, because he still is a pretty good pitcher. Brent Lillibridge's states looked ok in some of his minors years... but still, I'd rather keep Vazquez if nothing better come out of this. It does drop our spending a ton though right? That's a plus. :P

2906
12-02-2008, 05:28 PM
I'm always weary when the Braves are willing to part with young players.

Me too ... I think it's wary though. No biggie, I knew what you meant.

CashMan
12-02-2008, 05:32 PM
Me too ... I think it's wary though. No biggie, I knew what you meant.

I wouldn't be so, with position players, it is when they are willing to give up pitching prospects.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 05:32 PM
Are the Braves usuing the Sox to help lower the Padre demands?

soxfan43
12-02-2008, 05:32 PM
Are the Braves usuing the Sox to help lower the Padre demands?

Definitely a good possibility there.

SoxGirl4Life
12-02-2008, 05:33 PM
Sox may get as many as three players back, names being thrown around are Jo-Jo Reyes and Brent Lillibridge.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-look-to-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49


The decrease in heartburn every time its Javy's turn in the rotation would be a good enough trade off for me.

And a nice salary dump

2906
12-02-2008, 05:35 PM
I wouldn't be so, with position players, it is when they are willing to give up pitching prospects.

Exactly why I said it. Reyes is a left handed pitcher who is very young and basically got his ass handed to him this year. If it's true he's being discussed, it just makes me a little nervous Atlanta would give him up.

veeter
12-02-2008, 05:37 PM
Are the Braves usuing the Sox to help lower the Padre demands?Could be, but I don't recognize the names from the Peavy package. So, they may still be trying to pull off both trades. It could pressure Towers a little though. I think Javy would do well as a Brave.

sox1970
12-02-2008, 05:37 PM
OK, so when are we getting a CF/lead off guy in return?

CashMan
12-02-2008, 05:43 PM
My question would be, is Kenny going after a SP?

FedEx227
12-02-2008, 05:44 PM
Brent is a 2B/SS potential leadoff candidate if he is involved in a deal.

veeter
12-02-2008, 05:45 PM
OK, so when are we getting a CF/lead off guy in return?IF this happens, Kenny would really be stockpiling prospects. Which could lead to a move at the meetings. And IF this happens, we would suddenly need a good pitcher, especially if Richard is for sure the #5.

2906
12-02-2008, 05:45 PM
My question would be, is Kenny going after a SP?

That's what Jo Jo Reyes is.

russ99
12-02-2008, 05:45 PM
OK, so when are we getting a CF/lead off guy in return?

No kidding. None of these rumored deals are for anyone who can help us next year.

I hope Kenny's still concerned about the 2009 White Sox and not the 2009 Charlotte Knights...

SoxSpeed22
12-02-2008, 05:47 PM
According to Scout.com, Reyes is a very talented pitcher, but he has had trouble with injuries early in his career. He had Tommy John surgery and a torn ACL. He is over these injuries now. He features a 91-94 MPH fastball, a curveball, change-up and slider.
Brent Lillibridge was part of the trade that sent Adam LaRoche to the Pirates. At first glance, he has very good speed, is a very good base-stealer and can play multiple positions. He probably does not have the bat to stick in the everyday lineup. He could use another year in AAA. He's not very different from Getz.
This could be one of Kenny's trades that work out. Vazquez should do better in the NL and free agent pitchers get paid way more than the money that Javy is currently making.

FedEx227
12-02-2008, 05:51 PM
According to Scout.com, Reyes is a very talented pitcher, but he has had trouble with injuries early in his career. He had Tommy John surgery and a torn ACL. He is over these injuries now. He features a 91-94 MPH fastball, a curveball, change-up and slider.
Brent Lillibridge was part of the trade that sent Adam LaRoche to the Pirates. At first glance, he has very good speed, is a very good base-stealer and can play multiple positions. He probably does not have the bat to stick in the everyday lineup. He could use another year in AAA. He's not very different from Getz.
This could be one of Kenny's trades that work out. Vazquez should do better in the NL and free agent pitchers get paid way more than the money that Javy is currently making.

Getz: .272/.351/.345
Lillibridge: .270/.352/.421

No, they aren't too much different. I do like the fact that Lillibridge seems to get a bit more out of his hits though with that .421 SLG, including a good number of doubles.

russ99
12-02-2008, 05:56 PM
According to Scout.com, Reyes is a very talented pitcher, but he has had trouble with injuries early in his career. He had Tommy John surgery and a torn ACL. He is over these injuries now. He features a 91-94 MPH fastball, a curveball, change-up and slider.
Brent Lillibridge was part of the trade that sent Adam LaRoche to the Pirates. At first glance, he has very good speed, is a very good base-stealer and can play multiple positions. He probably does not have the bat to stick in the everyday lineup. He could use another year in AAA. He's not very different from Getz.
This could be one of Kenny's trades that work out. Vazquez should do better in the NL and free agent pitchers get paid way more than the money that Javy is currently making.

Lillibridge projects to more of a #2 hitter than the leadoff guy he seemed to be in A-ball.

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 06:00 PM
4:53pm: Rosenthal now says (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-look-to-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49) the Braves are on the verge of acquiring Vazquez.

FedEx227
12-02-2008, 06:02 PM
Oh wow. We'll see how this guys, be surprised if it actually goes down but I like Lillibridge, I think we talked about him on here last year.

soltrain21
12-02-2008, 06:02 PM
I know nothing of these prospects, but I like the move. Seems like we about to have a logjam of middle infielders, though.

BainesHOF
12-02-2008, 06:03 PM
He gone.

ESPN 1000 is reporting that Vazquez has been told he's been traded to the Braves. Details of the trade are still being worked out.

2906
12-02-2008, 06:03 PM
4:53pm: Rosenthal now says (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-look-to-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49) the Braves are on the verge of acquiring Vazquez.

Good catch. The headline changed a few mins. ago.

Also note the verbiage changed in the second paragraph as it now says the White Sox "will" receive ...

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 06:03 PM
Changed his story, Braves on the verge of acquiring Vazquez.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-near-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez

soltrain21
12-02-2008, 06:04 PM
So it's no longer on the verge? It's official?

soltrain21
12-02-2008, 06:04 PM
ESPN Radio reported Javier has been told he has been traded.

BainesHOF
12-02-2008, 06:05 PM
It hasn't been officially announced, but apparently it's been made official to Javy.

2906
12-02-2008, 06:06 PM
ESPN Radio reported Javier has been told he has been traded.

Yeah just heard that too. Seems like this is just a matter of time now.

hi im skot
12-02-2008, 06:06 PM
ESPN Radio reported Javier has been told he has been traded.

Cue the appreciation thread.

areilly
12-02-2008, 06:06 PM
He gone.

ESPN 1000 is reporting that Vazquez has been told he's been traded to the Braves. Details of the trade are still being worked out.

So which one is it - he's been traded, or they're still working out the trade?
:scratch:

XplodingScorbord
12-02-2008, 06:07 PM
Let's begin the wild speculation! I need to kill some time at work!

FedEx227
12-02-2008, 06:07 PM
So which one is it - he's been traded, or they're still working out the trade?
:scratch:

I think... he gone....

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 06:08 PM
Gammons said its a done deal

BainesHOF
12-02-2008, 06:09 PM
So which one is it - he's been traded, or they're still working out the trade?
:scratch:

Both.

JermaineDye05
12-02-2008, 06:10 PM
So am I correct to assume that Kenny will be flipping these prospects to San Diego for Jake Peavy?

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 06:10 PM
Cowley says deal is done pending physical.

CashMan
12-02-2008, 06:10 PM
so am i correct to assume that kenny will be flipping these prospects to san diego for jake peavy?


lol

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:13 PM
So am I correct to assume that Kenny will be flipping these prospects to San Diego for Jake Peavy?

Braves get schooled.

jdm2662
12-02-2008, 06:15 PM
I was in the camp that I hope the Sox don't trade Javy just to trade him. Let's hope the package they get for him is good. I know nothing about any team's prospects, so we will see.

thomas35forever
12-02-2008, 06:15 PM
OK, so when are we getting a CF/lead off guy in return?
When we get both Chone Figgins and Rafael Furcal.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 06:16 PM
Rosenthal is saying Lillibridge will probably be in the deal, but Jo-Jo Reyes is NOT.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:17 PM
I was in the camp that I hope the Sox don't trade Javy just to trade him. Let's hope the package they get for him is good. I know nothing about any team's prospects, so we will see.

I certainly hope we sign another starter. Buehrle, Danks, Gavin, then question marks doesn't have me overly excited. Rosenthal says we're likely getting a pitcher in return, so I guess we'll see who that is first.

JermaineDye05
12-02-2008, 06:18 PM
With another salary dump and only 3 for sure starters in the rotation next year. I have to think that 2009 will just be a rebuilding year or Kenny is planning on signing a pitcher be it Lowe/Burnett/Lowe etc.

He could always trade Josh Fields for Tim Lincecum.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 06:19 PM
Why would the Sox want Lillibridge when we got Getz and Beckham playing in 2010...

hopefully we get back a lot of young pitching

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 06:19 PM
It'd be awesome if we got Tommy Hanson in this but I doubt it.

lukeman89
12-02-2008, 06:21 PM
espn says boone logan was included in the deal

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 06:23 PM
Hooray!

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:23 PM
espn says boone logan was included in the deal

Alright, what about our side?

Damn, I'm probably the only person here who still supports Boone, but I still think he's going to be a good reliever.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 06:24 PM
espn says boone logan was included in the deal


thank god.. Can't wait to see who we got in return

Marqhead
12-02-2008, 06:24 PM
espn says boone logan was included in the deal
:bandance::bandance::bandance:

JermaineDye05
12-02-2008, 06:24 PM
Alright, what about our side?

Damn, I'm probably the only person here who still supports Boone, but I still think he's going to be a good reliever.

I've been on and off with him. He's shown flashes of being damn good and flashes of being absolutely lost out there.

Marqhead
12-02-2008, 06:25 PM
I'm reading Reyes, Lillibridge and PTBNL for Logan and Vazquez.

thomas35forever
12-02-2008, 06:26 PM
espn says boone logan was included in the deal
:praying:

CashMan
12-02-2008, 06:26 PM
on the Braves message board on Scout.com, doesn't sound like the prospects we are getting are anything from what I read.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:26 PM
I've been on and off with him. He's shown flashes of being damn good and flashes of being absolutely lost out there.

Only 24, a fastball that touches the mid-90s, good slider. He just gets into ruts where he can't throw that slider for a strike and gets shelled. I think it's a mistake to deal him.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:27 PM
on the Braves message board on Scout.com, doesn't sound like the prospects we are getting are anything from what I read.

How do they know what they're giving up?

CashMan
12-02-2008, 06:28 PM
How do they know what they're giving up?

Didn't sound like Lilibridge(sp?) is anything.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:29 PM
Didn't sound like Lilibridge(sp?) is anything.

That's only one player. Rosenthal says 'as many as three' are in the deal and they were also targeting a 'young starting pitcher.'

Marqhead
12-02-2008, 06:31 PM
That's only one player. Rosenthal says 'as many as three' are in the deal and they were also targeting a 'young starting pitcher.'
JO JO Reyes is the young starting pitcher.

Over By There
12-02-2008, 06:31 PM
Rosenthal says Reyes is not part of the deal, ESPN (non-attributed story) says Reyes, Lillibridge and "another top prospect." ESPN also says Vazquez is getting on a plane for a physical tomorrow morning in Atlanta.

CashMan
12-02-2008, 06:31 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-reach-deal-for-ChiSox%27s-Vazquez

Lukin13
12-02-2008, 06:34 PM
Only 24, a fastball that touches the mid-90s, good slider. He just gets into ruts where he can't throw that slider for a strike and gets shelled. I think it's a mistake to deal him.

I agree, there isn't a team in baseball that wouldn't take Boone Logan.

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 06:36 PM
Don't know what to think. I haven't seen Reyes or Lillibridge play but their numbers look sketchy to me. Lillibridge hit .220 last year in AAA... was he injured?

I need to see if Reyes is in the deal and if not, who the other two guys are that the Sox are getting in return. As of now, I have to give this a tentative thumbs down, but I reserve the right to change this as more information comes out.

Dan Mega
12-02-2008, 06:36 PM
I haven't heard any good minor leaguers from the Braves system named yet. Its not like KW is trading for a Floyd or Danks here. Underwhelming so far but as others have said, nothing has been finalized.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 06:36 PM
I agree, there isn't a team in baseball that wouldn't take Boone Logan.

Tyler Flowers C for Class A looks to be part of the deal

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:37 PM
I need to see if Reyes is in the deal and if not, who the other two guys are that the Sox are getting in return. As of now, I have to give this a tentative thumbs down, but I reserve the right to change this as more information comes out.

Why would you give it a thumbs down when you admit you know nothing about what we're getting in return?

Lillian
12-02-2008, 06:39 PM
I suppose you guys have seen this old blog on MLB.com:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/03/blocked-prosp-2.html

I like Lillibridge.

Over By There
12-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Not that it means anything necessarily, but I just looked at Baseball America's ranks of the top 10 Braves prospects from before last season, none of these names are on it.

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Why would you give it a thumbs down when you admit you know nothing about what we're getting in return?

I said tentative.

If Reyes and Lillibridge are the major parts of this deal, then I'm not happy. As I said, I haven't seen their numbers before and there's a reason I'm not an MLB GM, but from my point of view, Vazquez was worth more than what we are getting. If Reyes and Lillibridge are the main chips coming in return.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:40 PM
I haven't heard any good minor leaguers from the Braves system named yet. Its not like KW is trading for a Floyd or Danks here. Underwhelming so far but as others have said, nothing has been finalized.

I don't remember many people here being excited about Floyd or Danks when those trades were made either. In fact, we traded Freddy for Gio and a sack of ****, and our big farmhand stud for a couple of guys most people never heard of.

2906
12-02-2008, 06:41 PM
Tyler Flowers C for Class A looks to be part of the deal

If he's in the deal, that's the top prospect, at least position player wise.

He's got blossoming power and a very good batting eye, not sure about his defense.

Not surprising the White Sox would target a catching prospect though.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:41 PM
I said tentative.

I know, and I'm questioning why you're giving that out? It makes no sense. You basically said, 'I have no idea who we're getting in return so I'm giving it a tentative thumbs down.'

btrain929
12-02-2008, 06:42 PM
I haven't heard any good minor leaguers from the Braves system named yet. Its not like KW is trading for a Floyd or Danks here. Underwhelming so far but as others have said, nothing has been finalized.

Floyd and Danks had terrible numbers in the minors before coming here.

Over By There
12-02-2008, 06:42 PM
I suppose you guys have seen this old blog on MLB.com:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/03/blocked-prosp-2.html

I like Lillibridge.

Again, take it FWIW, but Lillibridge wasn't on the Pirates' top 10 list either.

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Flowers did quite well in the AFL If I recall correctly.

Stats:

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Tyler%20Flowers&pos=C&sid=l119&t=p_pbp&pid=452095

Dan Mega
12-02-2008, 06:44 PM
Floyd and Danks had terrible numbers in the minors before coming here.

I'm referring to upside.

But if Flowers is included in the deal then :bandance:

After thinking about it though, what did Vaz really bring besides a lot of innings and K's? This could just be a nice salary dump to go after a bigger target.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 06:45 PM
I know he sucked in 2008 but in 2007 Lillibridge's line from AA/AAA:

13HR 58RBI .282/.341 with 42SB's.

That's not too bad, and I doubt his skills have completely disappeared.

Here's John Sickels' Top 20 prospects for the Braves for 2009. Flowers is 5th. Reyes, if in the deal, won't be on there since he's not considered a prospect anymore.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/10/23/641522/atlanta-braves-top-20-pros

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:47 PM
Rosenthal says Lillibridge, Flowers, and a young starting pitcher still...NOT Reyes.

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 06:47 PM
Scott Miller is also saying Reyes isn't in the deal but we're getting 3 other players besides Lillibridge.

http://scott-miller.blogs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/12043071?source=rss_blogs_MLB

Metalthrasher442
12-02-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm honestly shocked that Javy is gone. I really thought Kenny was just shopping Jermaine and him around.

I hope Dye doesn't go too =[

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 06:48 PM
I don't remember many people here being excited about Floyd or Danks when those trades were made either. In fact, we traded Freddy for Gio and a sack of ****, and our big farmhand stud for a couple of guys most people never heard of.

Actually people were quite excited about Danks as he and Volquez were the top farmhands in a nice Rangers system. As Over By There just said, according to BA, neither Lillibridge nor Reyes are top 10 in the Braves system.

I don't know what's up your ass. I said there's a reason I'm not an MLB GM. KW is a good GM but he's not infallible. I was happy with the Swisher trade from the looks of things. I just think that, with the information we have now, KW could have probably done better. I'd like to see who the third player is, but from the looks of things, Reyes and Lillibridge are the noteworthy pieces coming back. I think KW could have gotten a better return.

If this is so hard to understand and you have such a problem with me not liking this trade--again, from the current information--then that is your problem, not mine.

Dan Mega
12-02-2008, 06:49 PM
I'm honestly shocked that Javy is gone. I really thought Kenny was just shopping Jermaine and him around.

I hope Dye doesn't go too =[

For the right price anyone on this team can be had.

gr8mexico
12-02-2008, 06:49 PM
I'm honestly shocked that Javy is gone. I really thought Kenny was just shopping Jermaine and him around.

I hope Dye doesn't go too =[
I hope Dye goes too BYE BYE HE GONE.

soxfanreggie
12-02-2008, 06:49 PM
I'm wondering what we will do with the salary dump (looks like $23 million over the next 2 years)...hopefully to a nice FA signing. Also get rid of Logan. Paging Mr. Burnett...:D:

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 06:49 PM
I know, and I'm questioning why you're giving that out? It makes no sense. You basically said, 'I have no idea who we're getting in return so I'm giving it a tentative thumbs down.'

I said from the information available now. I don't get why this is so hard to understand for you.

chaerulez
12-02-2008, 06:50 PM
Floyd and Danks had terrible numbers in the minors before coming here.

Danks overall minor number aren't anything special, but he had success at A+ and AA before he was promoted. And his AAA numbers aren't horrible, just average.

Frontman
12-02-2008, 06:50 PM
I'm honestly shocked that Javy is gone. I really thought Kenny was just shopping Jermaine and him around.

I hope Dye doesn't go too =[

I honestly don't care who gets traded, I just want a solid team for 2009. Until I see the final result of the trade; it *sounds* ok.

Thanks for the memories Javy. Especially the great line from "Palehose 8" of

"SHUT UP JAVY!!!"

:wink:

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:51 PM
Actually people were quite excited about Danks as he and Volquez were the top farmhands in a nice Rangers system.

It was thought that Danks was at least another year away, and coming off a disappointing 2006, no people were not excited at the prospect of Gavin Floyd being inserted into the rotation. And again, people still looked at his minor league numbers (not very good), and we're not excited.

As Over By There just said, according to BA, neither Lillibridge nor Reyes are top 10 in the Braves system.Reyes isn't even in the deal.

I don't know what's up your ass. I said there's a reason I'm not an MLB GM. KW is a good GM but he's not infallible. I was happy with the Swisher trade from the looks of things. I just think that, with the information we have now, KW could have probably done better. I'd like to see who the third player is, but from the looks of things, Reyes and Lillibridge are the noteworthy pieces coming back. I think KW could have gotten a better return.

If this is so hard to understand and you have such a problem with me not liking this trade--again, from the current information--then that is your problem, not mine.Nothing is 'up my ass.' I just don't get the point of rating a trade before we know the details. In fact, a trade shouldn't be rated until well after it's official...sometimes years down the line.

psyclonis
12-02-2008, 06:52 PM
A solid #4 is worth 3(or 4) prospects that don't even crack the braves top 5?

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 06:52 PM
I'm wondering what we will do with the salary dump (looks like $23 million over the next 2 years)...hopefully to a nice FA signing. Also get rid of Logan. Paging Mr. Burnett...:D:

plus we have money to spend with the following players being gone

Swisher
Cabrera
Crede
Jr.
Uribe


Just maybe KW will sign 2 top free agents

...
12-02-2008, 06:52 PM
I said from the information available now. I don't get why this is so hard to understand for you.

You already admitted that you have no idea how to interpret the information by claiming you know nothing about the players coming back in the deal. How can you dislike something based on information you cannot understand?

The Spaz
12-02-2008, 06:53 PM
Joe Cowley is reporting Boone Logan is also gone. Sorry if this was already posted.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 06:53 PM
I'm a big fan of any trade that gets rid of Vazquez. He's a .500 pitcher who makes $11.5-million a year. You can't pay a 5th starter that much money. It makes no sense. Good riddance. KW can take the $23-million he's saving over two years by dumping Javy and use it much more productively.

It looks like Flowers is the big name in the trade as far as the Sox are concerned, if the early reports are correct. He looks like he has some promise. Otherwise, it's a just a salary dump, which is fine. I can live with that. (But I'm hoping Flowers turns out to be really good.)

voodoochile
12-02-2008, 06:53 PM
Flowers did quite well in the AFL If I recall correctly.

Stats:

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Tyler%20Flowers&pos=C&sid=l119&t=p_pbp&pid=452095

So he'll be 23 and entering AA ball next year? That's not horrible for a catcher. Wish I had some defensive stats to look at, but even if he doesn't stay at catcher long term, stick like that you have to be optimistic about.

Sox will have openings at 1B in a few years and C within a year or so after that.

Figure KW is playing the odds here and looking at a down year in the FA market and hoping he can sign a FA pitcher who can give us what Javy will in the 4th slot for less money. But any way you slice it, the minor league system has taken in a huge infusion of talent since the draft. That should give KW plenty of room to wheel and deal too.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:53 PM
A solid #4 is worth 3(or 4) prospects that don't even crack the braves top 5?

You know the details?

btrain929
12-02-2008, 06:54 PM
A solid #4 is worth 3(or 4) prospects that don't even crack the braves top 5?

Flowers is in the top 5 or right there. He's a stud. You don't even know who's all in the deal, so stop :whiner:

The Immigrant
12-02-2008, 06:54 PM
Just maybe KW will sign 2 top free agents

Reinsdorf is clearing payroll to sign Lebron in 2010.

ms620
12-02-2008, 06:55 PM
I am not sure why people would be so upset with trading Javy for a few mediocre prospects. What exactly has Javy done to warrant more? Yes he is an innings eater. But at his price, we could do better.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm wondering what we will do with the salary dump (looks like $23 million over the next 2 years)...hopefully to a nice FA signing. Also get rid of Logan. Paging Mr. Burnett...:D:
You should be ready to page a surgeon for Burnett's arm as well.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:56 PM
I said from the information available now. I don't get why this is so hard to understand for you.

There was no information!! Brent Lillibridge, that's it. Rosenthal has been saying for an hour now that Jo-Jo Reyes is not a part of the deal (even when you made that post). Now it's Lillibridge + possibly 3 other players.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 06:56 PM
plus we have money to spend with the following players being gone

Swisher
Cabrera
Crede
Jr.
Uribe


Just maybe KW will sign 2 top free agents

He might go after some FA's, and I hope he does, but some of that money is going right back out to Jenks and Thome (if we're on the hook for all of the 13 million).

voodoochile
12-02-2008, 06:57 PM
A solid #4 is worth 3(or 4) prospects that don't even crack the braves top 5?

And $10M...

gr8mexico
12-02-2008, 06:57 PM
plus we have money to spend with the following players being gone

Swisher
Cabrera
Crede
Jr.
Uribe


Just maybe KW will sign 2 top free agents
Let's see if they can dump JD and free up some more money.
I cant wait to see what else Kenny does the rest of the off season.

oeo
12-02-2008, 06:58 PM
plus we have money to spend with the following players being gone

Swisher
Cabrera
Crede
Jr.
Uribe


Just maybe KW will sign 2 top free agents

Kenny has already said that the payroll will be cut. Don't get too excited.

voodoochile
12-02-2008, 07:00 PM
He might go after some FA's, and I hope he does, but some of that money is going right back out to Jenks and Thome (if we're on the hook for all of the 13 million).

Thome's bump is only Uribe's salary if the Sox have to pay it all. That leaves plenty of other money to spend if KW chooses to. He has said a payroll cut is coming based on down sales and an expected down year this year due to the economy, so figure he's got 10M to spend roughly at the moment (Dye gets a small bump this year too). That includes a payroll drop of $12M too.

sullythered
12-02-2008, 07:00 PM
Let's see if they can dump JD and free up some more money.
I cant wait to see what else Kenny does the rest of the off season.
What's with the rush to dump our most consistent hitter over the last few years?

dickallen15
12-02-2008, 07:00 PM
I'm always weary when the Braves are willing to part with young players.

They traded away a young Jermaine Dye. Frank Wren is making the decisions now. There's no reason to fear.

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 07:00 PM
It was thought that Danks was at least another year away, and coming off a disappointing 2006, no people were not excited at the prospect of Gavin Floyd being inserted into the rotation.



Reyes isn't even in the deal.



Nothing is 'up my ass.' I just don't get the point of rating a trade before we know the details. In fact, a trade shouldn't be rated until well after it's official...sometimes years down the line.

Hence my saying, as of now. I think we are in violent agreement here. I haven't drawn a concrete conclusion yet. I don't get why you have such a huge problem with my saying that, with the information we have now, I don't like the deal.

That's the last I'm going to write about it. It really isn't worth the time for me or you.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:01 PM
Kenny has already said that the payroll will be cut. Don't get too excited.

And what has been cut has been dead wood: Vazquez, Uribe, Swisher, and Crede (his back just won't let him play), so the team itself is hardly worse today than when the season ended. KW's trick now is to improve the team without increasing the payroll as he goes through the rest of the winter.

oeo
12-02-2008, 07:03 PM
I don't get why you have such a huge problem with my saying that, with the information we have now, I don't like the deal.

Because we don't have any information...

Brent Lillibridge is the only thing that stuck. Rosenthal said over an hour ago that Reyes is not part of the deal. So you're judging a trade on Brent Lillibridge + 2 or 3 other unknown players...it makes no sense.

MHOUSE
12-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Don't know if this thread has gotten this yet, but ESPN is more or less confirming the deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3740201), saying that it will include four players in addition to Javy and that Boone Logan is headed to Atlanta. Still no confirmation on who we're getting, but Jo-Jo Reyes, Lillibridge, and "another top prospect" are what's mentioned. One of their OF like Anderson or Blanco? Tommy Hanson?

ms620
12-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Because we don't have any information...

Brent Lillibridge is the only thing that stuck. Rosenthal said over an hour ago that Reyes is not part of the deal. So you're judging a trade on Brent Lillibridge + 2 or 3 other unknown players...it makes no sense.

I agree. When are people going to learn A) wait till the details of the deal are officially announced B) dont be so quick to get too high or low on prospects that we really do not know THAT much about.

SoxNation05
12-02-2008, 07:07 PM
Don't know if this thread has gotten this yet, but ESPN is more or less confirming the deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3740201), saying that it will include four players in addition to Javy and that Boone Logan is headed to Atlanta. Still no confirmation on who we're getting, but Jo-Jo Reyes, Lillibridge, and "another top prospect" are what's mentioned. One of their OF like Anderson or Blanco? Tommy Hunter?
It's Tommy Hanson. Tyler Flowers is rumored to be in the return.

gr8mexico
12-02-2008, 07:07 PM
What's with the rush to dump our most consistent hitter over the last few years?
I dont want the Sox to get stuck with a player that is loosing a step or 2 in the OF. I rather have the Sox sign Adam Dunn and have him play LF in 2009 and then DH in 2010. Dunn wouldnt even cost the Sox draft picks.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:08 PM
So far from what I'm reading, Braves fans are furious about Flowers being in the deal. Me likey.

SoxNation05
12-02-2008, 07:09 PM
So far from what I'm reading, Braves fans are furious about Flowers being in the deal. Me likey.
He seems like quite a prospect but how many catching prospects actually pan out? I would like to see KW start dealing for 2009 soon.......

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:09 PM
Reading Gammons report makes me feel that the Sox are trading Vazquez and Logan and someone else.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:10 PM
Also is Flowers a potential 1B/3B canidate? It doesn't appear they like his defense at all.

SoxNation05
12-02-2008, 07:10 PM
Reading Gammons report makes me feel that the Sox are trading Vazquez and Logan and someone else.
Everything I have read says that it's Vazquez and Logan not anything more?

sox1970
12-02-2008, 07:10 PM
So far from what I'm reading, Braves fans are furious about Flowers being in the deal. Me likey.

Flowers had a huge Arizona Fall League. No doubt Kenny Williams saw him play quite a bit out there. Hopefully he's part of the deal.

DSpivack
12-02-2008, 07:11 PM
Reading Gammons report makes me feel that the Sox are trading Vazquez and Logan and someone else.

What makes you think that? It said Vazquez and four other players; Logan being one of them, that means we get three in return.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:11 PM
Also is Flowers a potential 1B/3B canidate? It doesn't appear they like his defense at all.

Anybody can be a 1B candidate.

chisoxmike
12-02-2008, 07:11 PM
When Vazquez wins 16 games on a ****ty Braves team that is mirrored in third place, this place will riot.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 07:12 PM
I can't see the Sox going into next season with 4 young starters in the rotation..

SoxNation05
12-02-2008, 07:13 PM
I can't see the Sox going into next season with 4 young starters in the rotation..
Everything is skeptical for next season...

soxfanatlanta
12-02-2008, 07:13 PM
It's Tommy Hanson. Tyler Flowers is rumored to be in the return.

The Braves wouldn't part with Hanson in the rumored Peavy deal, I doubt he goes anywhere.

veeter
12-02-2008, 07:13 PM
Flowers had a huge Arizona Fall League. No doubt Kenny Williams saw him play quite a bit out there. Hopefully he's part of the deal.I think he's the kid who cranked a homerun and yelled, "Don't trade me to San Diego!!!", when he was rounding the bases.

sullythered
12-02-2008, 07:14 PM
I dont want the Sox to get stuck with a player that is loosing a step or 2 in the OF. I rather have the Sox sign Adam Dunn and have him play LF in 2009 and then DH in 2010. Dunn wouldnt even cost the Sox draft picks.
Dunn isn't as good a hitter as JD is. And he's crappier as a 28 year old in the field than Dye is at 34.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:14 PM
When Vazquez wins 16 games on a ****ty Braves team that is mirrored in third place, this place will riot.

Why? That's his MO and expected. If the Braves are battling for first, however, he'll be stinking up Atlanta.

sox1970
12-02-2008, 07:15 PM
I can't see the Sox going into next season with 4 young starters in the rotation..

I don't consider Floyd and Danks young anymore. The training wheels are off.

soxfanatlanta
12-02-2008, 07:15 PM
When Vazquez wins 16 games on a ****ty Braves team that is mirrored in third place, this place will riot.

Turner Field is pretty hitter friendly, IMO. He might do .500 since the Braves won't really be going anywhere, so there will be no pressure on him. :smile:

JB98
12-02-2008, 07:16 PM
When Vazquez wins 16 games on a ****ty Braves team that is mirrored in third place, this place will riot.

I won't riot. Good riddance, Javy.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:16 PM
What makes you think that? It said Vazquez and four other players; Logan being one of them, that means we get three in return.

A baseball source told ESPN's Peter Gammons that the deal will include four other players, including reliever Boone Logan (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6486), who would also go from the White Sox to the Braves.
Among the players expected to go from Atlanta to the Chicago organization are Jo-Jo Reyes (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=28820), Brett Lillibridge and another top prospect.

The part where it says JO-Jo, Brett and another top prospect. Maybe i'm just reading it wrong. Just the word and to me indicates the end of the list.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:17 PM
I think he's the kid who cranked a homerun and yelled, "Don't trade me to San Diego!!!", when he was rounding the bases.
Please tell this is implied teal? If not I love the kid already.

Metalthrasher442
12-02-2008, 07:17 PM
A baseball source told ESPN's Peter Gammons that the deal will include four other players, including reliever Boone Logan (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6486), who would also go from the White Sox to the Braves.
Among the players expected to go from Atlanta to the Chicago organization are Jo-Jo Reyes (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=28820), Brett Lillibridge and another top prospect.

The part where it says JO-Jo, Brett and another top prospect. Maybe i'm just reading it wrong. Just the word and to me indicates the end of the list.

Jo Jo was rumored at first, now he's reported to not be part of the deal.

veeter
12-02-2008, 07:18 PM
Please tell this is implied teal? If not I love the kid already.Nope, true story.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:20 PM
Nope, true story.
In that case I love this kid.

NardiWasHere
12-02-2008, 07:20 PM
I'm getting a Flowers Jersey

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:21 PM
Jo Jo was rumored at first, now he's reported to not be part of the deal.
ESPN still has him in the deal.

oeo
12-02-2008, 07:22 PM
ESPN still has him in the deal.

I trust Rosenthal more. He broke the story, and said Reyes was in discussion, but not a part of the deal.

gr8mexico
12-02-2008, 07:23 PM
Dunn isn't as good a hitter as JD is. And he's crappier as a 28 year old in the field than Dye is at 34.
Adam Dunn is a way better hitter then Dye. Dunn avg is 40HR 100RBI's 122BB and a OBP of around .380 while with the REDS!!!. Imagen if the guy has good players around him. At the Cell Dunn will easily hit over 50HR's

ChiSox89
12-02-2008, 07:23 PM
wait. what postion do these rumored players play. i just heard about this now

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:23 PM
I trust Rosenthal more. He broke the story, and said Reyes was in discussion, but not a part of the deal.
I don't really trust one over the other. I just find it comical that one's sources say yes and one says no.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:24 PM
ESPN still has him in the deal.

I trust Rosenthal more. He broke the story, and said Reyes was in discussion, but not a part of the deal.

I hope Rosenthal is right, because ESPN doesn't even mention Flowers being in it. I don't wanna get all hyped up about it, then him NOT being in the deal. He's the only reason this makes sense...

Lip Man 1
12-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Interesting that the Sox are getting back more prospects. They've acquired a ton recently.

Great... a lot of freed payroll and a ton of "prospects"....now ship them all the hell out for players who can actually play or have the gonads to admit to the fans the Sox are "rebuilding" in 2009.

Lip

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Adam Dunn is a way better hitter then Dye. Dunn avg is 40HR 100RBI's 122BB and a OBP of around .380 while with the REDS!!!. Imagen if the guy has good players around him. At the Cell Dunn will easily hit over 50HR's
Isn't "The Great American BallPark" more hitter friendly than Comiskey?

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Adam Dunn is a way better hitter then Dye. Dunn avg is 40HR 100RBI's 122BB and a OBP of around .380 while with the REDS!!!. Imagen if the guy has good players around him. At the Cell Dunn will easily hit over 50HR's

Cincinnati plays in a bandbox. I doubt Dunn's numbers would be much better in the Cell.

Metalthrasher442
12-02-2008, 07:24 PM
I don't really trust one over the other. I just find it comical that one's sources say yes and one says no.

Yeah it's still a toss up. I think I will like the deal more if Jo Jo isn't in it.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:25 PM
I don't really trust one over the other. I just find it comical that one's sources say yes and one says no.

Lillibridge = SS, maybe 2B.
Flowers = C.
Jo-Jo Reyes = SP.

It's believed the first 2 are in the deal, with a mystery 3rd person.

SoxFan88
12-02-2008, 07:26 PM
OK, so when are we getting a CF/lead off guy in return?

I'd like Josh Anderson to be part of the deal... CF with speed who has hit around .300 during his short time in the majors

ChiSox89
12-02-2008, 07:26 PM
a lot of payroll is getting freed up now, especially if dye is traded as well. could be cutting down for the economy or could be aiming for a free agent

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:26 PM
Lillibridge = SS, maybe 2B.
Flowers = C.
Jo-Jo Reyes = SP.

It's believe the first 2 are in the deal, with a mystery 3rd person.

The third man is probably Julio Franco. (Or Orson Wells.)

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:27 PM
Interesting that the Sox are getting back more prospects. They've acquired a ton recently.

Great... a lot of freed payroll and a ton of "prospects"....now ship them all the hell out for players who can actually play or have the gonads to admit to the fans the Sox are "rebuilding" in 2009.

Lip
Honestly though between Swisher and Vazquez you kind of had to figure one would be gone and can't really be surprised by both. They both wore their welcome with Kenny and Ozzie and both had minimal value. I don't see it as rebuilding I see it as cutting the fat. Now its time for Kenny to marinate it.

Metalthrasher442
12-02-2008, 07:27 PM
I'd like Josh Anderson to be part of the deal... CF with speed who has hit around .300 during his short time in the majors

The posters over at the braves forum aren't too fond of Anderson.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:28 PM
The third man is probably Julio Franco. (Or Orson Wells.)
I heard the Sox were dissapointed with the Senior Citizen turnout this season.

MHOUSE
12-02-2008, 07:28 PM
ESPN seems to have a disagreement between Gammons' and Rosenthal's reports. Both have Lillibridge and "another prospect" as in Flowers, and then one has Reyes in the deal and one doesn't. I guess we'll find out for sure tomorrow. If we get Flowers then I'm all for it. If it's a lower level prospect or another crappy one like Lillibridge or Reyes then it looks like a salary/character dump to me. Rotoworld has a nice summation here (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=MLB) with a diss on Logan to boot.

SoxFan88
12-02-2008, 07:28 PM
The posters over at the braves forum aren't too fond of Anderson.

What do they have to say?

oeo
12-02-2008, 07:28 PM
I don't really trust one over the other. I just find it comical that one's sources say yes and one says no.

ESPN's sources don't say he's in the deal, just that he might be. Rosenthal comes right out and says sources tell him that he's not in the deal.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:31 PM
ESPN's sources don't say he's in the deal, just that he might be. Rosenthal comes right out and says sources tell him that he's not in the deal.
Rotoworld says he's involved as well?:scratch:

AzureJazzMan
12-02-2008, 07:31 PM
According to the Braves site, they say that the Braves were willing to give up Lilibridge and Reyes, but that Kenny wanted someone else.

Link (http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081202&content_id=3699498&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl)

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:31 PM
The posters over at the braves forum aren't too fond of Anderson.

Just wait till they see Boone Logan! That will keep them ranting and raving.

DaveFeelsRight
12-02-2008, 07:32 PM
i like this trade alot but it just leaves a hole in the rotation now

oeo
12-02-2008, 07:32 PM
Rotoworld says he's involved as well?:scratch:

Rotoworld is like MLB Trade Rumors. They get their information from what's out there...they don't actually have their own info.

SoxSpeed22
12-02-2008, 07:33 PM
This looks like an 'ask me in a few years' trade. The trade could also open up the possibility of more trades or signings. In Kenny we trust.

Metalthrasher442
12-02-2008, 07:33 PM
Just wait till they see Boone Logan! That will keep them ranting and raving.

Or Javy in big game situations =]

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Online at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the title of the article reads:

"Braves Deal for Vasquez"

:redneck

AzureJazzMan
12-02-2008, 07:34 PM
i like this trade alot but it just leaves a hole in the rotation now

Or perhaps this is the lead-in to the Dye deal with Cinci or Tampa

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Rotoworld is like MLB Trade Rumors. They get their information from what's out there...they don't actually have their own info.
Ahhh ok.
Some reason, I don't know why, i'm just getting this feeling in my gut (and its a big one {gut that is}) that Kenny is gonna get one of the big free agents or acquire a high priced player through a trade (Ichiro).

DSpivack
12-02-2008, 07:35 PM
Online at the Atlantic Journal-Constitution, the title of the article reads:

"Braves Deal for Vasquez"

:redneck

Haha.

FGarcia34
12-02-2008, 07:36 PM
So we have our top 3 set in Buehrle, Floyd, Danks...

We aren't going to fill our our rotation with Marquez/Broadway/Richard/Poreda are we?

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:37 PM
Ahhh ok.
Some reason, I don't know why, i'm just getting this feeling in my gut (and its a big one {gut that is}) that Kenny is gonna get one of the big free agents or acquire a high priced player through a trade (Ichiro).

It's gotta be Peavy. We now need a SP and we have no problem giving no-trade clauses :D:

sox1970
12-02-2008, 07:37 PM
So we have our top 3 set in Buehrle, Floyd, Danks...

We aren't going to fill our our rotation with Marquez/Broadway/Richard/Poreda are we?

I doubt it. I still think they'll get a major league starting pitcher, and then Richard will have to lose the 5th spot in spring training.

veeter
12-02-2008, 07:38 PM
So we have our top 3 set in Buehrle, Floyd, Danks...

We aren't going to fill our our rotation with Marquez/Broadway/Richard/Poreda are we?No way.

veeter
12-02-2008, 07:39 PM
It's gotta be Peavy. We now need a SP and we have no problem giving no-trade clauses :D:You know, he'd actually be the perfect fit.

Lip Man 1
12-02-2008, 07:39 PM
Veeter:

I wouldn't expect it, but you never know. Kenny may have been told things from a payroll standpoint.

Here's the latest:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081202-chicago-white-sox-trade-javier-vazquez,0,628845.story

Lip

chisoxmike
12-02-2008, 07:40 PM
Why? That's his MO and expected. If the Braves are battling for first, however, he'll be stinking up Atlanta.

I know. But some people are going to forget that's how Vazquez rolls.

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:40 PM
It's gotta be Peavy. We now need a SP and we have no problem giving no-trade clauses :D:
Would a combination of our own prospects, the Swisher return and this return (Lillibridge and Flowers) combine to be enough?

I doubt it. I still think they'll get a major league starting pitcher, and then Richard will have to lose the 5th spot in spring training.
I just can't see the Sox going with 3 lefties in the rotation as much as I support a Richard - 5th starter.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 07:40 PM
A friend text me that Chip Caray was on XM radio about 20 mins ago and said that the Braves will be sending Lillibridge, Morton and Flowers to the Sox for Javy and Logan..

DaveFeelsRight
12-02-2008, 07:40 PM
i have a feeling kenny is gonna trade dye to tampa for sonnanstine or jackson

Tragg
12-02-2008, 07:42 PM
i'm always weary when the braves are willing to part with young players.
+1

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:42 PM
A friend text me that Chip Caray was on XM radio about 20 mins ago and said that the Braves will be sending Lillibridge, Morton and Flowers to the Sox for Javy and Logan..
I think thats Charlie Morton right? That name sounds familiar whether he is any good I don't know. Tribune is doubting its Reyes cause he doesn't fit with Kenny's wishes.

Metalthrasher442
12-02-2008, 07:42 PM
i have a feeling kenny is gonna trade dye to tampa for sonnanstine or jackson

I would have mixed feelings about that trade.

BleacherBandit
12-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Hahaha! The Posters at braves-nation are really excited about possibly getting Boone Logan:



"Boone Logan for the win! I'll wait to form an opinion on this until everything is out and finalized."



"Welcome to the ATL Vaz! And I'm glad we could snare Boone Logan too, he adds some more bullpen depth. I'm just wishing now we can somehow get Dye from the ChiSox too."

Who could they offer for Dye? I'm just saying....

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:43 PM
i have a feeling kenny is gonna trade dye to tampa for sonnanstine or jackson
If we are trading Dye to Tampa straight up for a starter it better be Garza or Kazmir.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 07:43 PM
i have a feeling kenny is gonna trade dye to tampa for sonnanstine or jackson


I have the same feeling

veeter
12-02-2008, 07:44 PM
+1Phil Rogers loves you.

GAsoxfan
12-02-2008, 07:44 PM
I saw Lillibridge play in Atlanta a few times last season, and he looked completely overmatched at the plate. Maybe he'll adjust, but at this point I'd rather have Getz starting at second.

I do like Flowers though. He's not great defensively, but he has the potential to take over for AJ in a couple years, which puts him above the other catchers in the Sox system.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:44 PM
A friend text me that Chip Caray was on XM radio about 20 mins ago and said that the Braves will be sending Lillibridge, Morton and Flowers to the Sox for Javy and Logan..

Don't know much about Charlie Morton, but his stats aren't very good. That said, if Flowers is in the deal I like it.

DSpivack
12-02-2008, 07:46 PM
If we are trading Dye to Tampa straight up for a starter it better be Garza or Kazmir.

That's not happening, although I agree that I wouldn't want to trade Dye for Jackson or Sonnanstine.

sox1970
12-02-2008, 07:46 PM
A friend text me that Chip Caray was on XM radio about 20 mins ago and said that the Braves will be sending Lillibridge, Morton and Flowers to the Sox for Javy and Logan..

I hope this one is true. Tyler Flowers seems like a legit prospect.

Charlie Morton....Coop'll fix 'em.

I_Liked_Manuel
12-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Not having to watch Vazquez or Logan again =

http://www.firebirdents.co.uk/images/fireworks3.jpg

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 07:47 PM
I thought Morton had shoulder problems last season and was shut down for the last month

veeter
12-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Don't know much about Charlie Morton, but his stats aren't very good. That said, if Flowers is in the deal I like it.It seems Kenny's deals are usually about dumping salary, getting some fluff, but including a gem in the last sentence.

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 07:47 PM
That said, if Flowers is in the deal I like it.

Same.


I hope the official announcement comes in a more timely manner than the reporting of offering Cabrera arbitration.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:48 PM
A friend text me that Chip Caray was on XM radio about 20 mins ago and said that the Braves will be sending Lillibridge, Morton and Flowers to the Sox for Javy and Logan..

Don't know much about Charlie Morton, but his stats aren't very good. That said, if Flowers is in the deal I like it.

From what I've read from fans, it seems like they'd rather dump Reyes on us, not Morton. So if we get Lillibridge, Morton, and Flowers, I think that'd be pretty solid.

oeo
12-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Don't know much about Charlie Morton, but his stats aren't very good. That said, if Flowers is in the deal I like it.

Looks like Flowers is the guy Kenny was after.

I like the return. :dunno:

sullythered
12-02-2008, 07:48 PM
I would have mixed feelings about that trade.
Mixed feelings of anger and sadness. Sonnenstien is very average and Edwin Jackson stinks on toast. If the Rays pulled that deal off, it would be a an absolute fleecing.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Not having to watch Vazquez or Logan again =

http://www.firebirdents.co.uk/images/fireworks3.jpg

Yeah, but the sales of Pepto Bismol will go down in the Chicago area.

AzureJazzMan
12-02-2008, 07:49 PM
I like what I see in his time in AAA with regard to Morton. He was only in 16 games at the MLB level this past season.

Charlie Morton (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Charlie%20Morton&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=450203)

whitesox901
12-02-2008, 07:50 PM
So did we get any mlb ready players in return? If so did we get a SP, 2B, OF, or lead off?

oeo
12-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Same.


I hope the official announcement comes in a more timely manner than the reporting of offering Cabrera arbitration.

It won't be official until tomorrow after the physicals.

ChiSoxIn06
12-02-2008, 07:52 PM
so can we officially call this a rebuilding year yet? because i see a lot of salary dumps but not one major league ready player yet

soltrain21
12-02-2008, 07:53 PM
so can we officially call this a rebuilding year yet? because i see a lot of salary dumps but not one major league ready player yet


Only if Dye gets moved.

ChiSoxIn06
12-02-2008, 07:54 PM
Only if Dye gets moved.

fair enough

2906
12-02-2008, 07:54 PM
A friend text me that Chip Caray was on XM radio about 20 mins ago and said that the Braves will be sending Lillibridge, Morton and Flowers to the Sox for Javy and Logan..

Charlie Morton, a big righthander. He fits the profile of what KW looks for. Someone right on the cusp, he is 25 and had a big Arizona Fall League in 2007 and a great start to the year with Richmond, Atlanta's AAA team.

It is said he is just now figuring things out, ala Gavin Floyd.

Of concern is he was basically shut down in September, he had problems with his upper back and had some arm fatigue as a result. The Braves people told him he needs to strengthen his back and shoulder.

He didn't do well in limited time with the Braves this year but again, this is exactly the type of guy KW targets.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:54 PM
Veeter:

I wouldn't expect it, but you never know. Kenny may have been told things from a payroll standpoint.

Here's the latest:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081202-chicago-white-sox-trade-javier-vazquez,0,628845.story

Lip

This link isn't working for me, is it just my crappy computer?

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 07:55 PM
so can we officially call this a rebuilding year yet? because i see a lot of salary dumps but not one major league ready player yet
Has a player been moved that wasn't figured to be moved? And has their return less than their actual value?

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 07:55 PM
so can we officially call this a rebuilding year yet? because i see a lot of salary dumps but not one major league ready player yet


its only Nov wait till the end of jan to see how the team looks..

We have no idea what KW has plan.. nothing wrong with getting a lot of young stars..

Javy was a bum

DirtySox
12-02-2008, 07:56 PM
This link isn't working for me, is it just my crappy computer?

Works for me.

blackcloud1956
12-02-2008, 07:56 PM
Tyler Flowers

Arizona Fall League G HR RBI AVG OBP

20 12 23 .387 .460

Single (A) 122 17 88 .288 .427
2008

NardiWasHere
12-02-2008, 07:56 PM
so can we officially call this a rebuilding year yet? because i see a lot of salary dumps but not one major league ready player yet

What have the Sox done so far this offseason besides get rid of garbage players and/or pieces that don't fit?

btrain929
12-02-2008, 07:56 PM
its only Nov wait till the end of jan to see how the team looks..

We have no idea what KW has plan.. nothing wrong with getting a lot of young stars..

Javy was a bum

It's December, buddy :D:

ChiSoxIn06
12-02-2008, 07:56 PM
its only Nov wait till the end of jan to see how the team looks..

We have no idea what KW has plan.. nothing wrong with getting a lot of young stars..

Javy was a bum

i understand what your saying and i really hope you are right about something big being planned

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 07:58 PM
It's December, buddy :D:


my mistake working to many hours

Tragg
12-02-2008, 07:58 PM
Logan had some talent. He didn't put it together (although he pitched well for a while), but it wouldn't surprise me if he has a good career.

NardiWasHere
12-02-2008, 07:58 PM
Someone wrote this on an ATL message board... :o:

No joke. I just hate the idea of giving them Flowers and watching him seemlessly replace Jim Thome in a couple years. It just reeks of John Schuerholtz.

Seems to me if Flowers is getting moved, we're getting more than Javy and a LOOGY that needs a change of scenery... Or at least we'd better be.

whitesox901
12-02-2008, 07:59 PM
my mistake working too many hours

:p:

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 07:59 PM
So did we get any mlb ready players in return? If so did we get a SP, 2B, OF, or lead off?

To answer your questions: No, no, no, and no.

It looks like KW is attempting to turn over the club to make it younger, and some of these guys are going to take a year or two, and hopefully they will pan out. Maybe one of them will make an impact in 2009. You never want to rule out that possibility. Maybe Charlie Morton becomes an Andy Sonnanstine type pitcher and surprises everyone.

In the meantime, KW is going to have to address leadoff and another starter in other ways.

So far, I don't have any problems with anything he has done. He's merely dumped unproductive, overpriced players in exchange for potential upside. Worst case, he's saved money to do other things.

2906
12-02-2008, 07:59 PM
Also of note on Charlie Morton ...

He pitched 79 innings this year for the Braves AAA team (Richmond) and didn't give up a single home run.

Again, exactly what KW targets.

veeter
12-02-2008, 08:00 PM
Logan had some talent. He didn't put it together (although he pitched well for a while), but it wouldn't surprise me if he has a good career.Me either. I say it a lot, but the fact is the NL has no where near the intimidating, excellent hitters the AL has. Javy and Logan will probably do very well.

Jurr
12-02-2008, 08:01 PM
These names were the big names being discussed in the Peavy to Braves rumors. Hopefully we catch lightning in a bottle with at least one of 'em.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-02-2008, 08:02 PM
These names were the big names being discussed in the Peavy to Braves rumors. Hopefully we catch lightning in a bottle with at least one of 'em.

Even one panning out makes it a steal for Javy.

veeter
12-02-2008, 08:02 PM
These names were the big names being discussed in the Peavy to Braves rumors. Hopefully we catch lightning in a bottle with at least one of 'em.The biggest name was their shortstop.

veeter
12-02-2008, 08:03 PM
Someone wrote this on an ATL message board... :o:Replacing Thome will be Brandon Allen's job.

soltrain21
12-02-2008, 08:04 PM
These names were the big names being discussed in the Peavy to Braves rumors. Hopefully we catch lightning in a bottle with at least one of 'em.

Or we are putting together a package for him. I don't think we are...but maybe we are.

Tragg
12-02-2008, 08:04 PM
So do we know for sure who we got in return yet?
Lillibridge?
Flowers?
PTBNL?

I get the feeling the first 2 are good prospects, but not Atlanta's best maybe?

getonbckthr
12-02-2008, 08:06 PM
So do we know for sure who we got in return yet?
Lillibridge?
Flowers?
PTBNL?

I get the feeling the first 2 are good prospects, but not Atlanta's best maybe?
Not their best but then again it is Boooooooooone Logan and Javy Vazquez with apparently no cash to pay Javy's contract.

btrain929
12-02-2008, 08:07 PM
So do we know for sure who we got in return yet?
Lillibridge?
Flowers?
PTBNL?

I get the feeling the first 2 are good prospects, but not Atlanta's best maybe?

No we don't know for sure. Lillibridge is the guy most likely to be involved.

Outside of that, maybe Flowers, maybe Jo-Jo Reyes, maybe Morton, etc. Flowers would be the best prospect received if he's in the deal.

KRS1
12-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Well... I think I'm one of about 3 members here who actually wanted to keep Javy, and I have always seen Boone as a guy with the stuff to be a top LHRP in the game. Too bad neither seems to have the mental makeup of a champion, because with their stuff, they should both be aces in their roles.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 08:08 PM
lets say Morton for Logan is a wash

We got Lillibridge and Flowers for a lousy pitcher

IMO we won the deal.. if these are the guys that are coming back to us...

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 08:09 PM
I know Vazquez wasn't a good clutch pitcher but I think it's a strong overstatement to call him "lousy." Lousy is when your ERA is above 5 and you routinely lose games to teams under .500.

Now, for the money, Vazquez isn't worth it. But then again, I'm in the boat that thinks that any pro baseball player making over $6mil is overpaid. Based on principle. But supply and demand is the name of the game.

Jerome
12-02-2008, 08:10 PM
I don't know anything about the prospects. Flowers sounds promising.

KW borrowed from the farm system to get Swisher and Javy because he was trying to win a WS. That plan failed. I have no problem with trading them while they still have some value to bolster the talent pool in the minors.

As an added bonus, the salary dumped could result in the signing of a FA to fill these holes. Has the team really downgraded by giving up Javy and Swisher? I don't think so. I like to think the Sox won the Central this year in spite of those two, not because of them.

Tragg
12-02-2008, 08:10 PM
Not their best but then again it is Boooooooooone Logan and Javy Vazquez with apparently no cash to pay Javy's contract.
It looks like a fair deal if that's what it was; I'm just having a hard time piecing together exactly who we got, for some reason.

oeo
12-02-2008, 08:10 PM
Well... I think I'm one of about 3 members here who actually wanted to keep Javy, and I have always seen Boone as a guy with the stuff to be a top LHRP in the game. Too bad neither seems to have the mental makeup of a champion, because with their stuff, they should both be aces in their roles.

I agree on both accounts, but I feel like we made out pretty well.

I have to think Kenny plans on signing a starter. I also think Boone was in the doghouse, which is a shame. Everyone here thinks he's Satan, but the guy has the stuff to be dominant, and has been. I hope he puts it together.

sullythered
12-02-2008, 08:11 PM
I know Vazquez wasn't a good clutch pitcher but I think it's a strong overstatement to call him "crappy." Crappy is when your ERA is above 5 and you routinely lose games to teams under .500.
He's not crappy. He's the most maddeningly frustrating pitcher I have ever watched. It's better for our mental health that he's gone.

Rockabilly
12-02-2008, 08:11 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081202&content_id=3699467&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

SoxGirl4Life
12-02-2008, 08:11 PM
lets say Morton for Logan is a wash

We got Lillibridge and Flowers for a lousy pitcher

IMO we won the deal.. if these are the guys that are coming back to us...
I'd have traded him just to dump the salary and NEVER having to see him choke up a game again! He's up there with MacDougal for me :shrug:

DSpivack
12-02-2008, 08:11 PM
Man, such underachieving mediocrity hasn't gone from Chicago to Atlanta since I went to college. :gulp:

KRS1
12-02-2008, 08:13 PM
Man, such underachieving mediocrity hasn't gone from Chicago to Atlanta since I went to college. :gulp:


HAHAHAHAHA

Thanks for that man.

veeter
12-02-2008, 08:16 PM
Man, such underachieving mediocrity hasn't gone from Chicago to Atlanta since I went to college. :gulp:How many years down the drain?

guillen4life13
12-02-2008, 08:17 PM
Man, such underachieving mediocrity hasn't gone from Chicago to Atlanta since I went to college. :gulp:

Refresh my memory...

Edit: Oh. Now I get it.

Dan Mega
12-02-2008, 08:17 PM
Man, such underachieving mediocrity hasn't gone from Chicago to Atlanta since I went to college. :gulp:

30, 40 years?

DSpivack
12-02-2008, 08:17 PM
How many years down the drain?

I was the first person in my immediate family to graduate college... in four years.

Sockinchisox
12-02-2008, 08:20 PM
Braves official site says Sox are getting 4 players back including Lillibridge and most likely Flowers along with two other unidentified players. Reyes is not included in the deal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081202&content_id=3699498&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

veeter
12-02-2008, 08:20 PM
I was the first person in my immediate family to graduate college... in four years.Atta boy.