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View Full Version : Konerko to the Angels rumor pops up again


Rockabilly
11-29-2008, 09:33 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/86230-mlb-trade-rumors-konerko-to-california-again

I would love to get Weaver from the Angels...

Craig Grebeck
11-29-2008, 09:35 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/86230-mlb-trade-rumors-konerko-to-california-again

I would love to get Weaver from the Angels...
Again, it's pure speculation. There's no way Weaver would be the return.

Flight #24
11-29-2008, 09:38 AM
whoever's speculating that the Sox would trade Konerko for Figgins+Weaver needs to get their head examined......or get a job in the Angels FO and make it happen ASAP.

Rockabilly
11-29-2008, 10:05 AM
I have been listing to sports radio here in CA. Several radio hosts think that Konerko will be part of the Angels next season..

including Rex Hudler who lives and breath Angels baseball...

Taliesinrk
11-29-2008, 10:11 AM
Who'd play first? Dye? I feel like this made sense before KW made the Swisher deal. Now it seems to fill one hole, but open up another.

FGarcia34
11-29-2008, 10:18 AM
By moving Konerko, I feel like was could have a few people that could possibly play first base. Whoever we get in return would dictate that as well. If it were Figgins, that would put Josh Fields as a likely candidate. If it were a pitcher, I think it would most likely be Dye's position with a small possibility of Viciedo playing first. I am all for trading one of Dye, Konerko, or Thome. It looks like Thome is a lock on the roster so that leaves Dye and Konerko. Any possibility the Angels would send Kotchman over in this deal?

Lillian
11-29-2008, 10:23 AM
If the Sox traded Konerko, who would play First, now that Swisher is gone? Could this board's long suggested idea of moving Dye to 1B finally be given a chance? Losing Konerko would almost certainly take Dye off the trading block.
Figgins would probably be in CF.
I think they could pry a young pitching prospect out of the Angels, to go along with Figgins. I don't think that Figgins is all that big of a trading chip, given that he is going to be in his Free Agent year, and has apparently fallen out of favor in the Angel's organization.

Lillian
11-29-2008, 10:24 AM
By moving Konerko, I feel like was could have a few people that could possibly play first base. Whoever we get in return would dictate that as well. If it were Figgins, that would put Josh Fields as a likely candidate. If it were a pitcher, I think it would most likely be Dye's position with a small possibility of Viciedo playing first. I am all for trading one of Dye, Konerko, or Thome. It looks like Thome is a lock on the roster so that leaves Dye and Konerko. Any possibility the Angels would send Kotchman over in this deal?

Kotchman was dealt for Tiexiera.

A. Cavatica
11-29-2008, 10:36 AM
We wouldn't have to be overwhelmed to make this deal. It would be a salary dump like the Carlos Lee trade, except that PK isn't as good a player as Lee. Think of it as Konerko for some Angels spare parts + lots of cash that could be reinvested.

hi im skot
11-29-2008, 10:45 AM
:rolling:

Craig Grebeck
11-29-2008, 11:09 AM
I have been listing to sports radio here in CA. Several radio hosts think that Konerko will be part of the Angels next season..

including Rex Hudler who lives and breath Angels baseball...
Not buyin' it. This has as much validity as your constant "Konerko for Conor Jackson!" musings.

Domeshot17
11-29-2008, 11:24 AM
come on, atleast read the article before posting it. This isn't a rumor, the Angels and White Sox have had no discussions over this trade, and the guy even admits he is only saying this because its about the time it might pop out this year, it usually does around this time, and it might make sense. This is an untalented unimportant sports writer on a meaningless website throwing his 2 cents into the conversation. He might as well just be a poster on WSI, hell, he might even be as accurate on his trade reports as Rockabilly is!

pearso66
11-29-2008, 11:27 AM
If Konerko is traded, I'm sure it would probably be Fields at first, with Viciedo given a shot at 3rd.

cbrownson13
11-29-2008, 11:29 AM
Any Konerko trade with the Angels makes no sense for either team really. The Angles are looking for a power hitter to take over for Vlad's declining productivity. Konerko is not that guy. And Weaver? Why we're at it, why don't we ask for Brandon Webb for Brian Anderson. And since when did first base become a position that anyone could play on an every day basis without prior experience? Granted, some unathletic guys play first base, but anyone without experience there would look like a damn fool.

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2008, 11:32 AM
:bandance:

:tongue:

chaerulez
11-29-2008, 11:39 AM
Yeah the Angels are going to trade for a guy on the decline making $24 million the next two years for a young pitcher who despite having gradually worse years since he's been in MLB still has performed at an above average level each year and is on a cheap rookie contract and can't test FA for another three years.

If they actually do that, their GM is an idiot.

I can see Konerko going to the Angels, but if the return is Weaver the Sox are throwing in some more pieces.

Vestigio
11-29-2008, 11:48 AM
And since when did first base become a position that anyone could play on an every day basis without prior experience? Granted, some unathletic guys play first base, but anyone without experience there would look like a damn fool.

Dye has all the experience needed. He's played one game at 1B against the A's...

Rdy2PlayBall
11-29-2008, 12:55 PM
Any Konerko trade with the Angels makes no sense for either team really. The Angles are looking for a power hitter to take over for Vlad's declining productivity. Konerko is not that guy. And Weaver? Why we're at it, why don't we ask for Brandon Webb for Brian Anderson. And since when did first base become a position that anyone could play on an every day basis without prior experience? Granted, some unathletic guys play first base, but anyone without experience there would look like a damn fool.If he can put up the numbers like he did at the end of last season, why would we even want to get rid of him? He's got the talent, he can impact a team just as much as Quentin if he doesn't go through a cold streak... and don't say that can't happen.

Huisj
11-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Dye has all the experience needed. He's played one game at 1B against the A's...

Don't forget he can fill in a short for a third of an inning here and there too.

Sockinchisox
11-29-2008, 01:34 PM
Angels have no interest in Konerko and very little interest in Dye.

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/11911510

It's near the bottom, and the bleacher report are made up of fan blogs. That guy who wrote that up is a banker.

Zisk77
11-29-2008, 01:44 PM
Dye has all the experience needed. He's played one game at 1B against the A's...


Actually he playe ss against the A's...he played first at home against somebody else...i think it might have been the Angels.

cbrownson13
11-29-2008, 02:00 PM
If he can put up the numbers like he did at the end of last season, why would we even want to get rid of him? He's got the talent, he can impact a team just as much as Quentin if he doesn't go through a cold streak... and don't say that can't happen.

I agree. I'm not trying to bash Konerko. He's more valuable playing for the Sox than he is in a trade. The Angels are on record as saying they would like to sign Teixeira because they feel he is the centerpiece of the offense that Vlad is starting to vacate. And don't get me wrong, Vlad can still bash, but he's not getting any younger. As of right now, I would think Konerko isn't on the Angles radar unless Teixeira signs elsewhere.

WhiteSox1989
11-29-2008, 02:17 PM
This would have been more believable had Nick Swisher never been traded.

PalehosePlanet
11-29-2008, 02:28 PM
If the Sox traded Konerko, who would play First, now that Swisher is gone? Could this board's long suggested idea of moving Dye to 1B finally be given a chance? Losing Konerko would almost certainly take Dye off the trading block.
Figgins would probably be in CF.
I think they could pry a young pitching prospect out of the Angels, to go along with Figgins. I don't think that Figgins is all that big of a trading chip, given that he is going to be in his Free Agent year, and has apparently fallen out of favor in the Angel's organization.

I agree 100%. His extra base hits and SB's have been dropping from year to year and he is now 31 years old. When a guy whose only real asset is his speed starts getting old --- and 31 is old for his type of player --- his value drops.

Also, he is not a good defensive 3B, 2B or CF.

Weaver? Apparently people on this board think he's great because he's been marvelous against us. His ERA is closer to 5 than 4 if our games are not included in his stats. He's so-so.

I understand Figgins is better than anything we currently have to lead-off, and that Weaver would be an okay addition to the staff (as a 4 or 5) but these guys are certainly not players that should be hard to acquire by any means.

Vestigio
11-29-2008, 02:47 PM
This would have been more believable had Nick Swisher never been traded.

Thats what I was thinking...

Tragg
11-29-2008, 02:57 PM
I understand Figgins is better than anything we currently have to lead-off, and that Weaver would be an okay addition to the staff (as a 4 or 5) but these guys are certainly not players that should be hard to acquire by any means.
Figgins would be a nice addition to this team because his skills are what the staff here apparently wants. I'd certainly rather have someone of his ability leading off and running than forcing it with someone like Owens (which this field staff was perfectly willing to do a year ago).

Weaver's a head-case pitcher who pitches below his ability. WE have one of those.

Brian26
11-29-2008, 03:56 PM
Actually he playe ss against the A's...he played first at home against somebody else...i think it might have been the Angels.

4-27-05 vs. A's.

Widger started at 3B, Crede at SS, Dye in RF. Uribe and Iguchi were both unavailable. After Crede was thrown out in the top of the 9th, Dye moved over to SS for 1/3 of an inning before the A's won. Can't remember who Dye played 1B against, but I know Timo Perez played 1B once in 2005 also.

A. Cavatica
11-29-2008, 04:54 PM
If he can put up the numbers like he did at the end of last season, why would we even want to get rid of him? He's got the talent, he can impact a team just as much as Quentin if he doesn't go through a cold streak... and don't say that can't happen.

Because he can also put up the numbers like he did for the majority of the season.

But I agree, the trade makes no sense for the Angels -- Konerko's salary is an albatross for the Sox now.

jabrch
11-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Konerko's salary is an albatross for the Sox now.


12mm is hardly an albatross.

Bucky F. Dent
11-29-2008, 04:59 PM
91 days to pitchers and catchers report......can't come fast enough.

MisterB
11-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Can't remember who Dye played 1B against, but I know Timo Perez played 1B once in 2005 also.

July 6, 2005 vs. the Rays (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA200507060.shtml).

soxinem1
11-29-2008, 06:46 PM
I'd take Figgins and Reggie Willits for PK.

Especially since LAAAAAAAA will not make room for Willits. They should do him a favor and trade him to a team that will let him play.

turners56
11-29-2008, 06:51 PM
I'd take Figgins and Reggie Willits for PK.

Especially since LAAAAAAAA will not make room for Willits. They should do him a favor and trade him to a team that will let him play.

I like Willits alot. He'd be perfect for our grinder model.

Madscout
11-29-2008, 07:06 PM
Who'd play first? Dye? I feel like this made sense before KW made the Swisher deal. Now it seems to fill one hole, but open up another.
As if it is that hard to get a 1B.

Craig Grebeck
11-29-2008, 07:13 PM
As if it is that hard to get a 1B.
Apparently it is, otherwise the Angels would just go after someone besides Konerko.

Brian26
11-29-2008, 07:28 PM
Is Konerko for Figgins straight-up a fair trade? In my mind, it is not. The author or the article implies that it is a fair trade except for Konerko's higher salary being an issue for the Angels, which is laughable since the Angels have been throwing money around more irresponsibly than the Yankees the last three or four years.

Taliesinrk
11-29-2008, 08:14 PM
As if it is that hard to get a 1B.

As if it is that hard to get a 1B that puts out sufficient offensive production. Please forgive me if I don't want Ross Gload at 1B for the next 5 years.

A. Cavatica
11-29-2008, 10:34 PM
12mm is hardly an albatross.

It is when he disappears for 3/4 of the season. He was 18th in OPS among qualifying major league first basemen!

The Sox have a serviceable, cheap power hitter who runs better than PK and could probably play a nifty first base. Maybe two, with Viciedo. I'd like to see that 12 mil spent where it could do more good.

Craig Grebeck
11-29-2008, 10:36 PM
It is when he disappears for 3/4 of the season. He was 18th in OPS among qualifying major league first basemen!

The Sox have a serviceable, cheap power hitter who runs better than PK and could probably play a nifty first base. Maybe two, with Viciedo. I'd like to see that 12 mil spent where it could do more good.
Fields' offense would be a disaster at first base.

CashMan
11-29-2008, 11:12 PM
Fields' offense would be a disaster at first base.


How so? He hit 23 HRs as a rookie.

Craig Grebeck
11-29-2008, 11:17 PM
How so? He hit 23 HRs as a rookie.
He'd be a below average first baseman offensively.

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2008, 11:19 PM
He'd be a below average first baseman offensively.

Below-average offense at 1B didn't keep the Sox from winning the division in 2008. :tongue:

soxrepublican
11-29-2008, 11:20 PM
I like Willits alot. He'd be perfect for our grinder model.

Grinder? That ended in 2005. Get over it, Sox Fans. We now Share the Passion and Show the Swagger.

Craig Grebeck
11-29-2008, 11:21 PM
Below-average offense at 1B didn't keep the Sox from winning the division in 2008. :tongue:
Absolutely. I still don't believe Fields would be that good though.

Taliesinrk
11-29-2008, 11:50 PM
Absolutely. I still don't believe Fields would be that good though.

As if it is that hard to get a 1B.

soxinem1
11-30-2008, 11:38 AM
He'd be a below average first baseman offensively.

How can you assume that? He hit 23 HR with 67 RBI in 370 AB's. His SLG was .480. This was in a line up that sucked. For the amount of playing time he had, and the added joy of moving between two positions, he was one of the most productive hitters on the 2007 team.

That is far better than PK's averages the past two seasons which he was paid $24 million for.

I cannot understand some of the dumping on Fields. And while he's no Crede (pre-2007) or Ventura, he was not that bad at 3B up here.

I recall Crede and Ventura both being reputed butchers when the were young, and both made a lot of errors when they were first brought up.

Depending upon the circumstances, I'd have no problems with him at 1B or 3B.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 11:42 AM
How can you assume that? He hit 23 HR with 67 RBI in 370 AB's. His SLG was .480. This was in a line up that sucked. For the amount of playing time he had, and the added joy of moving between two positions, he was one of the most productive hitters on the 2007 team.

That is far better than PK's averages the past two seasons which he was paid $24 million for.

I cannot understand some of the dumping on Fields. And while he's no Crede (pre-2007) or Ventura, he was not that bad at 3B up here.

I recall Crede and Ventura both being reputed butchers when the were young, and both made a lot of errors when they were first brought up.

Depending upon the circumstances, I'd have no problems with him at 1B or 3B.
Well, you're looking at the wrong statistics. He batted .244/.308/.480 in 2007. Paulie, on the other hand, batted .259/.351/.490, much better than Fields. In Konerko's below average 2008, he still had a higher OBP than Fields did in 2007.

OBP is much more important than slugging, and Fields' slugging will only keep declining if he does not learn to hit a fastball.

soxinem1
11-30-2008, 12:20 PM
Well, you're looking at the wrong statistics. He batted .244/.308/.480 in 2007. Paulie, on the other hand, batted .259/.351/.490, much better than Fields. In Konerko's below average 2008, he still had a higher OBP than Fields did in 2007.

OBP is much more important than slugging, and Fields' slugging will only keep declining if he does not learn to hit a fastball.

No I am not. Fields only had 370 AB's. If he had 500+ he would have been close to 30-90. And that was as a rookie. He out-produced
Konerko, Crede and Ventura by far in their first 500 AB's.

Konerko's AVERAGE the past two seasons, as I pointed out, is neither worth the $24 million he was paid, nor anything that cannot be replaced.

My main point was to refute your claim that Fields could not produce numbers for a 1B. But based on his numbers when he was given the chance, he did for both 1B and 3B, and better than his predecessors at similar points in their careers.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 01:19 PM
No I am not. Fields only had 370 AB's. If he had 500+ he would have been close to 30-90. And that was as a rookie. He out-produced
Konerko, Crede and Ventura by far in their first 500 AB's.

Konerko's AVERAGE the past two seasons, as I pointed out, is neither worth the $24 million he was paid, nor anything that cannot be replaced.

My main point was to refute your claim that Fields could not produce numbers for a 1B. But based on his numbers when he was given the chance, he did for both 1B and 3B, and better than his predecessors at similar points in their careers.
If all you're looking for out of a first baseman is HR, then just play Brad Eldred. That's a flawed line of thought.

Also, when healthy, in the second half, Konerko put up a .910 OPS. He was outstanding. Fields will never have the strike zone judgment to be a similar player to either Ventura or Konerko.

Edit: Also, comparing Fields to Ventura is ridiculous. Robin was a master of the strike zone, as his K/BB ratio in his first full season was 55/53, compared to Fields' 125/35.

oeo
11-30-2008, 01:25 PM
Well, you're looking at the wrong statistics. He batted .244/.308/.480 in 2007. Paulie, on the other hand, batted .259/.351/.490, much better than Fields. In Konerko's below average 2008, he still had a higher OBP than Fields did in 2007.

OBP is much more important than slugging, and Fields' slugging will only keep declining if he does not learn to hit a fastball.

If you look at his minor league numbers, his OBP improved upon the year before at the same level. I guess it can't improve at the major league level?

And :lol:, he couldn't catch up to the fastball in 2008 because of his injury.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 01:32 PM
If you look at his minor league numbers, his OBP improved upon the year before at the same level. I guess it can't improve at the major league level?

And :lol:, he couldn't catch up to the fastball in 2008 because of his injury.
I don't believe he can do it at the major league level. He couldn't hit a fastball in 2007 either, for what it's worth. He was really, really bad at making any contact with a straight ball.

Edit: Also, his OBP improved from 2006 to 2007. But, the IL is not MLB.

jabrch
11-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Fields definitely has the talent to hit at this level. If he can or can not do it - nobody knows. The people with the foresight to know for sure that he can or can not, are just guessing.

I'm willing to take a shot and see if he can. The upside is significant. He has hit well in his limited healthy ABs in the majors. That's a strong positive indicator. His glove is a different story. I'm a poor evaluator of defense - I'll leave that to those who are more skilled at it than I am.

California Sox
11-30-2008, 02:00 PM
The problem Fields has is contact. He strikes out close to 1 out of every 3 ABs. Now even assuming he has a high BABIP, he is doomed to a low average and probably poor performance against good pitching. That's not a recipe for a starter on a first division team. He seriously needs to improve both offensively and defensively. Can he do it? Maybe, but players like him (e.g. Russell Branyan, Joe Borchard, Dallas McPherson) often cannot make the necessary adjustments.

jabrch
11-30-2008, 02:27 PM
The problem Fields has is contact. He strikes out close to 1 out of every 3 ABs. Now even assuming he has a high BABIP, he is doomed to a low average and probably poor performance against good pitching. That's not a recipe for a starter on a first division team. He seriously needs to improve both offensively and defensively. Can he do it? Maybe, but players like him (e.g. Russell Branyan, Joe Borchard, Dallas McPherson) often cannot make the necessary adjustments.

I could live with his 2007 performance as long as he was costing us the league minimum, and was our weakest link in the order.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 02:53 PM
Poll of the Week:

If you were the Angels and couldn't sign both Sabathia and Teixeira, but could acquire Konerko if you only signed Sabathia, which would you rather have?

A) Mark Teixeira Only
B) CC Sabathia & Paul Konerko

Keep Teixeira's value (amazing defense and a great hitter) in mind along with Sabathia's weight concerns/durability and fear of Konerko starting to go downhill (I don't think so but I've heard it).

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 02:58 PM
Well, you're looking at the wrong statistics. He batted .244/.308/.480 in 2007. Paulie, on the other hand, batted .259/.351/.490, much better than Fields. In Konerko's below average 2008, he still had a higher OBP than Fields did in 2007.

OBP is much more important than slugging, and Fields' slugging will only keep declining if he does not learn to hit a fastball.

....:scratch:
You continue to confuse CB.
Although Konerko had a bad season in 2007, his OBP was dead-on when comparing it to his career mark (.352). And again, the only worthy difference is OBP but where Fields is at in his career and where PK is at, is another difference worth noting.
Again, I'd rather have PK than Fields (much like Thome rather than Fields), but not because of what you point out.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 02:59 PM
....:scratch:
You continue to confuse CB.
Although Konerko had a bad season in 2007, his OBP was dead-on when comparing it to his career mark (.352). And again, the only worthy difference is OBP but where Fields is at in his career and where PK is at, is another difference worth noting.
Again, I'd rather have PK than Fields (much like Thome rather than Fields), but not because of what you point out.
Paulie clearly had a better season in 2007. That's not debatable.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 03:05 PM
Paulie clearly had a better season in 2007. That's not debatable.

As he SHOULD have. I'm not arguing that. We paid him $8.75mm in '05 to be one of our offensive leaders.
But, Konerko hit 1 HR per 18 ABs compared to Fields' 1 HR per 16 ABs.
Also, Konerko drove in 1 run per 6.1 ABs compared to Fields' 1 RBI per 5.6 ABs, very similar there. And I'm sure you remember that Fields hit a lot lower in the order than Konerko usually did, thus less chances to drive in runs.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 03:08 PM
As he SHOULD have. I'm not arguing that.
But, Konerko hit 1 HR per 18 ABs compared to Fields' 1 HR per 16 ABs.
Also, Konerko drove in 1 run per 6.1 ABs compared to Fields' 1 RBI per 5.6 ABs, very similar there. Also note that Fields hit a lot lower in the order than Konerko usually did, thus less chances to drive in runs.
Ugh. I'm aware their power numbers were similar, but there's more to being a quality offensive player. Paul out-slugged Fields and got on base a lot more often.

I don't really care who had RBIs when or how often.

Also, Fields hit higher than Konerko in 50 games, for what it's worth.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 03:11 PM
Ugh. I'm aware their power numbers were similar, but there's more to being a quality offensive player. Paul out-slugged Fields and got on base a lot more often.

I don't really care who had RBIs when or how often.

Also, Fields hit higher than Konerko in 50 games, for what it's worth.


I don't have time to confirm your last statement so I'll take your word for it. And by higher do you mean 2nd? A bad spot to drive in runs.

About the highlighted part, you do not mean that. You've come off as a smart baseball fan and that statement is one I'd expect from a stupid baseball fan. Timely hitting is the most important stat, period. When talking about batting average w/ RISP, you can take your (not you personally) OBPs, SLG%s, OPS and put them you know where. Who cares if a guy walks every time there is nobody on and 2 outs? Who cares if a guy walks with 1 runner on 2nd and 2 outs? And how meaningful are solo home runs unless they tie a game, put your team up, or extend a 1 or 2 run lead to a 2 or 3 run lead? A successful team wants players that are bring in runners when there are runners on base waiting to be driven home.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 03:13 PM
I don't have time to confirm your last statement so I'll take your word for it.
About the highlighted part, you do not mean that. You've come off as a smart baseball fan and that statement is one I'd expect from a stupid baseball fan. Timely hitting is the most important stat, period. When talking about batting average w/ RISP, you can take your (not you personally) OBPs, SLG%s, OPS and put them you know where. Who cares if a guy walks every time there is nobody on and 2 outs? Who cares if a guy walks with 1 runner on 2nd and 2 outs? A successful team wants players that are bring in runners when there are runners on base waiting to be driven home.
RsBI are a team stat.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 03:17 PM
RsBI are a team stat.

For the most part, yes. But a team always prefers to have their timely hitters (with the most power) batting in the middle of the lineup.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 03:18 PM
For the most part, yes. But a team always prefers to have their timely hitters (with the most power) batting in the middle of the lineup.
Of course. So what's your point?

CashMan
11-30-2008, 04:46 PM
Of course. So what's your point?

What I like about what you are trying to argue is, Paulie like 10yrs into his MLB career to a guy who played his rookie year, and was hurt the next year.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 05:02 PM
What I like about what you are trying to argue is, Paulie like 10yrs into his MLB career to a guy who played his rookie year, and was hurt the next year.
Yes, Fields was a rookie -- but that doesn't mean one can assume progression.

munchman33
11-30-2008, 05:31 PM
Yes, Fields was a rookie -- but that doesn't mean one can assume progression.

Nor can one assume Konerko's regression the last few seasons isn't indicative of a below average bat at his position next season.

I like Konerko. I think he could rebound. But I'd rather have that money off the books and spent elsewhere.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 05:51 PM
Nor can one assume Konerko's regression the last few seasons isn't indicative of a below average bat at his position next season.

I like Konerko. I think he could rebound. But I'd rather have that money off the books and spent elsewhere.
I'm very encouraged by his strong second half.

munchman33
11-30-2008, 06:12 PM
I'm very encouraged by his strong second half.

I am very discouraged that his body continues to break down, and when it does it takes months to fully recover.

We're a borderline kind of team. We don't need Jekyll and Hyde at first base.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 06:14 PM
I am very discouraged that his body continues to break down, and when it does it takes months to fully recover.
Yeah, but luckily he plays 1B. I'm not as concerned as I am about Dye -- which is why we should move him this offseason.

munchman33
11-30-2008, 06:31 PM
Yeah, but luckily he plays 1B. I'm not as concerned as I am about Dye -- which is why we should move him this offseason.

Really? I know Jermaine has his problems, but recent history favors his health over Paulie's. Position matters, but not when one guy is so obviously breaking down faster.

Ideally, I'd like to see both gone. Clear the salary to pickup Texiera and then someone like Ibanez as a stopgap in the outfield.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 06:37 PM
Really? I know Jermaine has his problems, but recent history favors his health over Paulie's. Position matters, but not when one guy is so obviously breaking down faster.

Ideally, I'd like to see both gone. Clear the salary to pickup Texiera and then someone like Ibanez as a stopgap in the outfield.
Eh, I'd rather go younger in the outfield with someone who plays good defense.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 06:39 PM
Of course. So what's your point?

I said "for the most part, yes", but RBIs can also be viewed as an individual stat (that's how they're calculated after all). You can put two different guys at the plate with the bases loaded, let us assume Konerko and Pujols, the TEAM (the players ahead of them), got on base, yes, but it'll be up to the two INDIVIDUALS and THEIR performance whether 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 runs are scored. The opposing pitcher is focused on the batter at the plate, not the team and what they've done so far. What does all this mean? The better of a hitter you are when it counts, the more RBIs you will compile. Whether you're on the highest scoring team or the lowest scoring team, you will get a noticeable amount of RBIs if you hit when it counts.

Craig Grebeck
11-30-2008, 06:41 PM
I said "for the most part, yes", but RBIs can also be viewed as an individual stat (that's how they're calculated after all). You can put two different guys at the plate with the bases loaded, let us assume Konerko and Pujols, the TEAM (the players ahead of them), got on base, yes, but it'll be up to the two INDIVIDUALS and THEIR performance whether 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 runs are scored. The opposing pitcher is focused on the batter at the plate, not the team and what they've done so far. What does all this mean? The better of a hitter you are when it counts, the more RBIs you will compile. Whether you're on the highest scoring team or the lowest scoring team, you will get a noticeable amount of RBIs if you hit when it counts.
RBI opportunities are directly influenced by the quality of players hitting ahead of the player in question. They are not valuable in judging anyone's value.

WhiteSoxFan84
11-30-2008, 07:18 PM
RBI opportunities are directly influenced by the quality of players hitting ahead of the player in question. They are not valuable in judging anyone's value.

Opportunities are, yes, but not production. After the guys ahead of you get on base, what do you do with the situation you are presented with? That's all up to the individual.

Lillian
11-30-2008, 07:28 PM
I'm one of those that was strongly advocating trading Konerko last year, especially after Swisher was acquired. However, now that Swisher has been traded, I'm not as eager to trade Konerko.

The fact that he finished strongly bodes well for this season. Paulie has also stated that he intended to adopt a very rigorous conditioning program this off season. If he keeps in shape, he is certainly young enough that his game shouldn't necessarily decline that significantly. The hand injury, and the rib cage, or oblique, problem really inhibited his ability to hit.

If the Sox could get back someone to play 1B, I would mind a trade, but as most have noted, his trade value is probably pretty low after last year.

russ99
12-01-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm one of those that was strongly advocating trading Konerko last year, especially after Swisher was acquired. However, now that Swisher has been traded, I'm not as eager to trade Konerko.

The fact that he finished strongly bodes well for this season. Paulie has also stated that he intended to adopt a very rigorous conditioning program this off season. If he keeps in shape, he is certainly young enough that his game shouldn't necessarily decline that significantly. The hand injury, and the rib cage, or oblique, problem really inhibited his ability to hit.

If the Sox could get back someone to play 1B, I would mind a trade, but as most have noted, his trade value is probably pretty low after last year.

Those are good points, and Paul could rebound. That's why I'd hang on to him unless we can fill a spot with a solid player. Then, depending on how things shake out, we could deal Konerko at midseason when his value is a bit higher.

whitesox901
12-01-2008, 02:43 PM
I dont understand the need for Konerko to Angels rumor anymore.

If we move Paul who's going to play first?

Thome25
12-01-2008, 02:51 PM
I dont understand the need for Konerko to Angels rumor anymore.

If we move Paul who's going to play first?

Assuming we get Figgins back then I could see Fields playing 1st.

esbrechtel
12-01-2008, 02:58 PM
I am all for getting rid of the homerun or nothing philosophy...but trading Konerko to the Angels isn't necessarily the answer to that, especially if we are trading Dye.

Currently your power hitters (can put up 30+ HR) are Dye, TCQ, Konerko, Thome

You might get some power from Fields and Dayan Viciedo (who may take a couple years to come up)

If you trade Konerko and Dye your roster is...

C- AJ (good for between 15 and 20 HRs)
1B- ?
2B- Getz (maybe good for 5 to 10?)
3B- Fields (25-30?)
SS- TCM (15-20)
LF-TCQ (40+)
CF-?
RF-?
DH-Thome (30)

Thats roughly 130 HRs thats not too bad I guess but I think trading Konerko depends on if Dayan will be ready right away. IMO its really hard to say. I think you hold on Konerko until you really know what you have in this guy. Konerko had a fluke year last year, I fully expect him to return to form. The guy did really start to pick it up when he came back from his injury...

whitesox901
12-01-2008, 03:03 PM
Konerko had a fluke year last year, I fully expect him to return to form. The guy did really start to pick it up when he came back from his injury...

I have that feeling too, I honestly think Paul can hit 30+ HR agian and about the .270-.290 area

esbrechtel
12-01-2008, 03:04 PM
My other concern is with Figgins is his best asset is his speed. It is not his glove or his arm and his stolen base numbers have really dropped from 2005. He is in his 30s is his speed diminishing?

AzureJazzMan
12-01-2008, 03:32 PM
Instead of Figgins, why not Reggie Willits and Bobby Wilson (AAA) C

btrain929
12-01-2008, 04:08 PM
Instead of Figgins, why not Reggie Willits and Bobby Wilson (AAA) C

Willits and Wilson are spare parts to the Angels, and if we were truly interested in either of them, (I'd imagine) can be had w/o giving up Konerko. I'm a big fan of Willits. If Dye gets traded, maybe Quentin could go to RF with Willits in LF (I don't think he's played much CF).

jabrch
12-01-2008, 05:16 PM
Instead of Figgins, why not Reggie Willits and Bobby Wilson (AAA) C

Why take the 3rd best catcher in their farm system when #1 and #2 are both rumored to be available? And why take a 27 yo who just hit .194/.321/.231 and try and make him a starter?

We have a better in house option at both of those spots than the two players you mention (Don Lucy over Wilson and BA over Willitis)

btrain929
12-01-2008, 05:36 PM
Why take the 3rd best catcher in their farm system when #1 and #2 are both rumored to be available? And why take a 27 yo who just hit .194/.321/.231 and try and make him a starter?

We have a better in house option at both of those spots than the two players you mention (Don Lucy over Wilson and BA over Willitis)

Willits was hurt and barely had any playing time in '08 with their crowded OF (108 AB's), so listing those stats don't tell you much. Are you saying his '07 was a fluke? .293/.391 with 27 SB's in 430 AB's.

Domeshot17
12-01-2008, 05:36 PM
Doesn't matter, this isn't a real rumor. This is just some guy speculating for his blog. I venture to say we'll see a bunch of crap threads/ideas how this is the year Konerko gets dealt to the Angels or Dbacks, but its just the same fluff being thrown around for 2 years.

SoxNation05
12-01-2008, 07:26 PM
I am all for getting rid of the homerun or nothing philosophy...but trading Konerko to the Angels isn't necessarily the answer to that, especially if we are trading Dye.

Currently your power hitters (can put up 30+ HR) are Dye, TCQ, Konerko, Thome

You might get some power from Fields and Dayan Viciedo (who may take a couple years to come up)

If you trade Konerko and Dye your roster is...

C- AJ (good for between 15 and 20 HRs)
1B- ?
2B- Getz (maybe good for 5 to 10?)
3B- Fields (25-30?)
SS- TCM (15-20)
LF-TCQ (40+)
CF-?
RF-?
DH-Thome (30)

Thats roughly 130 HRs thats not too bad I guess but I think trading Konerko depends on if Dayan will be ready right away. IMO its really hard to say. I think you hold on Konerko until you really know what you have in this guy. Konerko had a fluke year last year, I fully expect him to return to form. The guy did really start to pick it up when he came back from his injury...
How do you figure that Alexei will only hit 15-20 HRs when he hit 21 last year after starting the year off absolutely horrible? How could AJ be good for 15-20 HR when he only did that twice in his prime? Quentin is good for 40?? He's never hit 40, he's never played a full season and we have no idea he can stay healthy for a year? I also don't think Fields is a lock for 25-30. For all we know he is splitting time at 3B plus he strikes out a third of a time. He has never hit more than 25 and couldn't even come close to staying healthy last year.

btrain929
12-01-2008, 09:24 PM
The only benefit I like about getting Figgins (whether or not we get him thru Konerko or other players), is he is a free agent after '09. If he does well, we can try to sign him to an extension. But if he doesn't live up to the hype or is hell bent on exploring the FA market for a 5-6 year deal, we'll collect draft picks when he leaves ala Cabrera. As of right now, he's a Type B, but can easily be a Type A with a solid '09. It's a good way to replenish your farm system by acquiring players that will continue to bring back draft picks. That's another reason I was hoping we'd pursue Adrian Beltre, who's a Type A as of right now and is a FA after '09.

veeter
12-01-2008, 10:14 PM
I have that feeling too, I honestly think Paul can hit 30+ HR agian and about the .270-.290 areaAbsolutely. It's hard to hit with a sore hand.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-02-2008, 01:03 AM
Looks like Konerko may not be Plan B for the Angels at 1st base behind Mark Teixeira, instead he may be Plan C. Who's Plan B? B is for Burrell according to this article (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/12/01/pat-burrell-could-be-headed-for-the-angels-and-for-first-base/).