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Paulwny
11-26-2008, 03:09 PM
I haven't seen this posted:

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=253505

Foulke You
11-26-2008, 03:22 PM
I kind've had a feeling the payroll would be trimmed this year. However, for the first time in a while, I'm excited about some of the young position players in our system now like Beckham, Viciedo, and Getz. I don't feel the sense of dread that I would normally have as a Sox fan when hearing the dreaded "cut payroll" phrase uttered. As a fan, I will be understanding of some payroll drop in this economic climate. However, I hope they don't go back to being a mid-market spender like we were in the late 90s.

Scottiehaswheels
11-26-2008, 04:22 PM
I'm glad we're up to .75 cents from the .50 cents we had only a winter ago. :D:

btrain929
11-26-2008, 04:25 PM
I'll be extremely disappointed if payroll goes down after we win a division, ticket prices go up, and after we had the play-in game and 2 home playoff games.

doublem23
11-26-2008, 04:29 PM
I'll be extremely disappointed if payroll goes down after we win a division, ticket prices go up, and after we had the play-in game and 2 home playoff games.

I'd be OK with payroll going down if it meant the Sox getting better.

btrain929
11-26-2008, 04:31 PM
I'd be OK with payroll going down if it meant the Sox getting better.

Hahaha well that would be the best case scenario, but I find that extremely difficult unless Marquez puts up Danks of '08-like numbers as our #5 starter, we trade Dye, and Viciedo and Fields have amazing years at RF and 3B, respectively.

Woofer
11-26-2008, 04:39 PM
I'll be extremely disappointed if payroll goes down after we win a division, ticket prices go up, and after we had the play-in game and 2 home playoff games.

I agree. Anytime that we trade talent for prospects, it reminds me of 1997 White Flag trade. We should never have to walk down that path ever again. If Kenny builds a competitive team, we will be there.

HomeFish
11-26-2008, 07:06 PM
Most objective analysts argued that 2008 really should have been a rebuilding year for the White Sox. Now, we got lucky, and we had a division championship season despite the fact that Thome, Konerko, etc. had very bad years. Now all of our old, unproductive players are even less tradable than they were before 2009, so while Kenny's gamble gives us another flag to hoist, it may hurt us in the long run.

Lip Man 1
11-26-2008, 07:09 PM
Rebuilding is for stiff teams like the Pirates, Royals and Padres.

Btrain makes some excellent points.

This is Chicago...not Cincinnati.

I have no issues with working in some kids, you have to do that sooner or later. But don't start hinting that there may be four kids or so in the starting lineup and then have the gonads to say you are "contending."

Lip

Craig Grebeck
11-26-2008, 07:14 PM
Most objective analysts argued that 2008 really should have been a rebuilding year for the White Sox. Now, we got lucky, and we had a division championship season despite the fact that Thome, Konerko, etc. had very bad years. Now all of our old, unproductive players are even less tradable than they were before 2009, so while Kenny's gamble gives us another flag to hoist, it may hurt us in the long run.
Thome had a bad year? News to me. He was the best DH in baseball.

CashMan
11-26-2008, 07:24 PM
Thome had a bad year? News to me. He was the best DH in baseball.

I think his .245 avg and his failure to put up 100RBI would disagree with you.

btrain929
11-26-2008, 07:26 PM
Thome had a bad year? News to me. He was the best DH in baseball.

Milton Bradley and (to a lesser extent) Aubrey Huff would certainly disagree. But I agree that saying "Thome had a bad year" is simply not true.

I think his .245 avg and his failure to put up 100RBI would disagree with you.

He had 90. It's not like he turned in a 62 RBI effort like Paulie.

champagne030
11-26-2008, 07:35 PM
I haven't seen this posted:

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=253505

:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling: At least we've got $.75 this year.

LoveYourSuit
11-26-2008, 07:35 PM
Rebuilding is for stiff teams like the Pirates, Royals and Padres.

Btrain makes some excellent points.

This is Chicago...not Cincinnati.

I have no issues with working in some kids, you have to do that sooner or later. But don't start hinting that there may be four kids or so in the starting lineup and then have the gonads to say you are "contending."

Lip


I agree. From the surfcace this will piss off many Sox fans being that they made good revenue last season and have a very strong season base turning over this coming season. In addition to increasing the ticket prices. But I think the corporate revenue from sponsorship will be going down big time.


And as you said, this is Chicago not Cincy or Cle. I don't here too many other big market teams crying poor. It's the opposite. ANA is targeting the best players in the market right now, the economy in Southern California sucks right now as much as anywhere else with so many banks and lenders closing doors in the Irvine area.


But if we turn the roster over with youth and we contiune to be a contender, then so what. But spending money always increases your chances to be a contender rather than waiting to catch lightning in a bottle (unless you have a farm system and ballpark like Min).

Craig Grebeck
11-26-2008, 07:47 PM
Milton Bradley and (to a lesser extent) Aubrey Huff would certainly disagree. But I agree that saying "Thome had a bad year" is simply not true.



He had 90. It's not like he turned in a 62 RBI effort like Paulie.
You are correct on the first part. Not sure what I was going with there.

jabrch
11-26-2008, 07:51 PM
I agree. Anytime that we trade talent for prospects, it reminds me of 1997 White Flag trade. We should never have to walk down that path ever again. If Kenny builds a competitive team, we will be there.


Like trading McCarthy for Danks or like trading Freddy for Gavin and Gio?

Forget the White Flag deal - this has no similarities.

jabrch
11-26-2008, 07:52 PM
Rebuilding is for stiff teams like the Pirates, Royals and Padres.

And the Dodgers, Mets, Tigers and many other teams who have done it...

Steelrod
11-26-2008, 08:09 PM
I'll be extremely disappointed if payroll goes down after we win a division, ticket prices go up, and after we had the play-in game and 2 home playoff games.
Attendance was down 300,000 in 2008!

PalehosePlanet
11-26-2008, 08:24 PM
We are already down 23 million or so by ditching the contracts of Crede, Cabrera, Uribe and Swisher. If we trade Javy and JD that's another 23 million. That would knock down our payroll from roughly 120 million down to the mid 70's --- after Jenks arbitration, let's say roughly 80 million.

Do we really need to cut our payroll by a third?? Does KW expect our attendance to drop to 1.6 or 1.7 million? That's absurd. If we trade away the aforementioned players they better be replaced by a free agent or two.

Hopefully he's just being coy here.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-26-2008, 08:39 PM
The Sox everyday line up played "old" once Quentin went down with his injury. Youth (hopefully speedy youth) is needed badly. Only Danks and Floyd stepping up saved the pitching staff from a major letdown in 2008. They both work cheap.

A drop in payroll doesn't surprise me too much since the Sox are letting several older players go. The way MLB and the MLBPA have the labor deal set up, this is the natural order of things.

btrain929
11-26-2008, 09:13 PM
You are correct on the first part. Not sure what I was going with there.

Can I use that as my signature? :tongue:

CashMan
11-26-2008, 10:17 PM
We are already down 23 million or so by ditching the contracts of Crede, Cabrera, Uribe and Swisher. If we trade Javy and JD that's another 23 million. That would knock down our payroll from roughly 120 million down to the mid 70's --- after Jenks arbitration, let's say roughly 80 million.

Do we really need to cut our payroll by a third?? Does KW expect our attendance to drop to 1.6 or 1.7 million? That's absurd. If we trade away the aforementioned players they better be replaced by a free agent or two.

Hopefully he's just being coy here.

It's NOVEMBER!!!!!!!!!!

Noneck
11-26-2008, 11:04 PM
I'll be extremely disappointed if payroll goes down after we win a division, ticket prices go up, and after we had the play-in game and 2 home playoff games.

I'm sure concessions and parking will go up also and if not up it for sure won't go down.

wulfy
11-26-2008, 11:18 PM
Hmmm, seems like I got blasted in WTS for suggesting this could happen ...

btrain929
11-26-2008, 11:21 PM
I'm sure concessions and parking will go up also and if not up it for sure won't go down.

I wonder which teams are at the top of the list when you look at "most expensive parking" and how much they charge. I haven't been to many stadiums so I wouldn't know, but I'd be shocked if we weren't in the top 5 or 8. Another bump will put it almost at $25 to park.

And I don't know if it was because I was drunk from tailgating or not, but it seemed like there was a noticeable decrease in people driving and using lots this year. Lots didn't seem as packed as years before.

btrain929
11-26-2008, 11:23 PM
Hmmm, seems like I got blasted in WTS for suggesting this could happen ...

Well right now it's all speculation. We won't know for sure about the payroll until Opening Day. Another way to look at it is maybe he's freeing up money now ala the Knicks because he likes a good amount of people in the post-'09 Free Agent class (Figgins, Roberts, Lackey, etc).....

Jurr
11-26-2008, 11:51 PM
Rebuilding is for stiff teams like the Pirates, Royals and Padres.

Btrain makes some excellent points.

This is Chicago...not Cincinnati.

I have no issues with working in some kids, you have to do that sooner or later. But don't start hinting that there may be four kids or so in the starting lineup and then have the gonads to say you are "contending."

Lip
Well, it is Red Sox lore that Epstein made a conscious decision in 2006 to sacrifice the present for a chance to let some of his prospects get a chance at the big league level. It paid dividends in 2007 and 2008. Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and others were worked into the Red Sox system and made significant contributions. They may not have gotten the shot had the Red Sox not made an effort to get them PT.

CashMan
11-26-2008, 11:59 PM
Well, it is Red Sox lore that Epstein made a conscious decision in 2006 to sacrifice the present for a chance to let some of his prospects get a chance at the big league level. It paid dividends in 2007 and 2008. Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and others were worked into the Red Sox system and made significant contributions. They may not have gotten the shot had the Red Sox not made an effort to get them PT.


I think Epsteins whole thing of quitting was, he didn't want to be like the Yankees and buy talent every year, he wanted to put that money into the farm system. So, if Kenny is putting a little more money into the farm, I would be happy.

btrain929
11-27-2008, 12:01 AM
Well, it is Red Sox lore that Epstein made a conscious decision in 2006 to sacrifice the present for a chance to let some of his prospects get a chance at the big league level. It paid dividends in 2007 and 2008. Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and others were worked into the Red Sox system and made significant contributions. They may not have gotten the shot had the Red Sox not made an effort to get them PT.

I think it's two completely different scenarios, though. In 2006, Ellsbury didn't play at all, and Pedroia only got 89 AB's (I'm guessing towards the end of the year). The type of youth-infusion we're potentially looking at here would start from day 1 of spring training and is way more drastic with (sorry) lesser skilled players.

Jurr
11-27-2008, 12:08 AM
I think it's two completely different scenarios, though. In 2006, Ellsbury didn't play at all, and Pedroia only got 89 AB's (I'm guessing towards the end of the year). The type of youth-infusion we're potentially looking at here would start from day 1 of spring training and is way more drastic with (sorry) lesser skilled players.
I get your point. Going young is always scary. If a guy's unproven, there's always the chance they can suck. There's also that chance they are a stud, but you don't get to find that out without significant playing time. Rarely will you find a player that just "gets it" right out of the gate.

Are Sox fans patient enough to let that transpire? That's a tough one. We don't like losing much in these parts!

btrain929
11-27-2008, 01:34 AM
I get your point. Going young is always scary. If a guy's unproven, there's always the chance they can suck. There's also that chance they are a stud, but you don't get to find that out without significant playing time. Rarely will you find a player that just "gets it" right out of the gate.

Are Sox fans patient enough to let that transpire? That's a tough one. We don't like losing much in these parts!

Haha, good question.

Call me crazy but I'm excited to see what a healthy Josh Fields can do. One thing to keep in mind if he starts the season as our starting 3B is he's only 26 and only making around $400,000. Therefore, I'm not gonna have outrageous expectations for him. I would hope if he gets 550+ AB's, he'd be able to put up 25HR's, 75RBI's, .250/.320, 8-10SB's out of the 7-8 hole, and average to slightly below average defense. I don't think that's unobtainable or too high of expectations, and I'd be very happy with that type of production from him. Sometimes, I think people have too high of expectations for these types of players.

I'm also really excited to see Getz get a big league season under his belt. He's shown continuous improvement 3 years in a row in the minors, and doesn't seem to have many holes in his game.

We obviously can't have All Stars at every position. The more of these younger players we can have step in and perform at a respectable level, the more money we'll have to use for the next core of superstars once Thome, Dye, and Konerko move on. Now it's just a matter of them going out and doing it. I think they can, but I tend to sometimes be an optimist when it comes to our prospects that I've seen play...

Lillian
11-27-2008, 03:44 AM
I raised this issue exactly two years ago in the following post entitled;
"Baseball's Insane Salaries Reflective of Something Larger":

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1416728#post1416728

At the time, my original question was never really fully addressed, as the discussion lapsed into a debate about market manias and their consequences. I suspected then that I would have to wait until this financial and economic crisis actually transpired before I would be able to engage more of you in a serious conversation about its consequences for the business of baseball.

This might be an ideal time to revisit the subject.

Zisk77
11-27-2008, 08:09 AM
...So all we need is to add the chris chelios for leadership.:scratch: How did they slip a blackhawk story in there?...anyway i just think the economoy/payroll slash is yet another way kenny is breaking it too us that he is going to to let the prospects show there stuff and then buy next year if it doesn't work out. He'll still probably acquire some veteran/salary.

my guess if there was FA speed out there we'd be buyers.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-27-2008, 08:14 AM
I raised this issue exactly two years ago in the following post entitled;
"Baseball's Insane Salaries Reflective of Something Larger":....

This might be an ideal time to revisit the subject.


Major League Baseball is one highly-specialized piece of the entertainment industry. By definition the entertainment industry is a luxury and impacted relatively more by both economic growth and recession (compared to staples like food and oil).

After the 2008 season (when the Sox surprised lots of people and their biggest rivals for the city's entertainment $ went bust) now has the Sox expecting to expand their season ticket base... and we're hearing stories here about season ticketholders coming to grips with the scarcity of the commodity they seek: Better seats.

I'm betting MLB makes it through this recession far better than most other businesses, including other entertainment industry enterprises.

Noneck
11-27-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm not crazy about anyone in the FA market this year and it seems to be a good time to see what the Sox prospects can do this year. This would be a great year to hold the line on all price increases due to a very shaky economy. The money gained from salary loss this year could finally be invested in the minor league system. But it appears with an increase in season tickets and not much talk about about building a strong minor league system, the Sox are going to cut salary, increase prices and invest in T Notes instead.

Lillian
11-27-2008, 09:07 AM
Major League Baseball is one highly-specialized piece of the entertainment industry. By definition the entertainment industry is a luxury and impacted relatively more by both economic growth and recession (compared to staples like food and oil).

After the 2008 season (when the Sox surprised lots of people and their biggest rivals for the city's entertainment $ went bust) now has the Sox expecting to expand their season ticket base... and we're hearing stories here about season ticketholders coming to grips with the scarcity of the commodity they seek: Better seats.

I'm betting MLB makes it through this recession far better than most other businesses, including other entertainment industry enterprises.

Well, if all we get is a 'recession' I would agree with you. But as I said in my original post of 2006, there is a much greater probability of a depression, and almost certainly a deflation. In fact the deflation has already begun.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-27-2008, 10:58 AM
Well, if all we get is a 'recession' I would agree with you. But as I said in my original post of 2006, there is a much greater probability of a depression, and almost certainly a deflation. In fact the deflation has already begun.

You were worried about a recession in 2006 and now you're worried about a depression in 2008?

I see a trend here, too, but not the same one you do.

oldcomiskey
11-27-2008, 06:07 PM
talking about free agents, the only standout guys are the ones that JR is gonna get buy into because the price tag is too high. See Sabathia and Manny. Of the others I wouldnt mind the Sox going after Jon Garland or Orlando Hudson or even a Luis Rivas or even offering a guy like Mark Prior a minor league deal. What I dont understand though is this. When Oz took over they got rid of Lee, Valentin and Ordonez and replaced them Podsednik, Dye and in effect, Iguchi . They lead the AL in sacrifice bunts in 05. Then They got themselves in the same damn mess they were in before Ozzie took over. This team in 05 had outstanding starting pitching, a timely offense,an opportunistic offense and a pretty good defense. That was just four years ago. Now everybody swings for the fences again. Swisher was a bust and I dont know why everybody fell in love with a 219 hitter that was difficult to handle. Should KW find another jewel like ramirez or quentin thats fine, but his luck is bound to run out with these types of players sooner or later. I have no problem with them cutting payroll as long as they win. 2008 was a damn fluke and everybody knows about it. 89 wins is a joke in any division. When the Sox won in 05 89 wins wouldve gotten you 10 GB. Dont pee down my back and tell its raining,Kenny. Now I do think that KW deserves some slack, because nobody laughed anymore than I do when he traded Lee for Pods and got rid of Manos and replaced him with an unknown Japanese second baseman. But if he thinks 08 was something to build on, hes sadly mistaken in my book. I mean look at it like this. Tampa pretty much handed us our hats in the post season. Why? because they had a balnced attack and we could do is hit homers. Christ, the one game playoff with Minnesota was won on a Thome solo shot. I agree with Ozzie, the home run is nothing but a rally killer

btrain929
11-27-2008, 06:21 PM
talking about free agents, the only standout guys are the ones that jr is gonna get buy into because the price tag is too high. See sabathia and manny. Of the others i wouldnt mind the sox going after jon garland or orlando hudson or even a luis rivas or even offering a guy like mark prior a minor league deal. What i dont understand though is this. When oz took over they got rid of lee, valentin and ordonez and replaced them podsednik, dye and in effect, iguchi . They lead the al in sacrifice bunts in 05. Then they got themselves in the same damn mess they were in before ozzie took over. This team in 05 had outstanding starting pitching, a timely offense,an opportunistic offense and a pretty good defense. That was just four years ago. Now everybody swings for the fences again. Swisher was a bust and i dont know why everybody fell in love with a 219 hitter that was difficult to handle. Should kw find another jewel like ramirez or quentin thats fine, but his luck is bound to run out with these types of players sooner or later. I have no problem with them cutting payroll as long as they win. 2008 was a damn fluke and everybody knows about it. 89 wins is a joke in any division. When the sox won in 05 89 wins wouldve gotten you 10 gb. Dont pee down my back and tell its raining,kenny. Now i do think that kw deserves some slack, because nobody laughed anymore than i do when he traded lee for pods and got rid of manos and replaced him with an unknown japanese second baseman. But if he thinks 08 was something to build on, hes sadly mistaken in my book. I mean look at it like this. Tampa pretty much handed us our hats in the post season. Why? Because they had a balnced attack and we could do is hit homers. Christ, the one game playoff with minnesota was won on a thome solo shot. I agree with ozzie, the home run is nothing but a rally killer

k.....

CashMan
11-27-2008, 07:11 PM
talking about free agents, the only standout guys are the ones that JR is gonna get buy into because the price tag is too high. See Sabathia and Manny. Of the others I wouldnt mind the Sox going after Jon Garland or Orlando Hudson or even a Luis Rivas or even offering a guy like Mark Prior a minor league deal. What I dont understand though is this. When Oz took over they got rid of Lee, Valentin and Ordonez and replaced them Podsednik, Dye and in effect, Iguchi . They lead the AL in sacrifice bunts in 05. Then They got themselves in the same damn mess they were in before Ozzie took over. This team in 05 had outstanding starting pitching, a timely offense,an opportunistic offense and a pretty good defense. That was just four years ago. Now everybody swings for the fences again. Swisher was a bust and I dont know why everybody fell in love with a 219 hitter that was difficult to handle. Should KW find another jewel like ramirez or quentin thats fine, but his luck is bound to run out with these types of players sooner or later. I have no problem with them cutting payroll as long as they win. 2008 was a damn fluke and everybody knows about it. 89 wins is a joke in any division. When the Sox won in 05 89 wins wouldve gotten you 10 GB. Dont pee down my back and tell its raining,Kenny. Now I do think that KW deserves some slack, because nobody laughed anymore than I do when he traded Lee for Pods and got rid of Manos and replaced him with an unknown Japanese second baseman. But if he thinks 08 was something to build on, hes sadly mistaken in my book. I mean look at it like this. Tampa pretty much handed us our hats in the post season. Why? because they had a balnced attack and we could do is hit homers. Christ, the one game playoff with Minnesota was won on a Thome solo shot. I agree with Ozzie, the home run is nothing but a rally killer

2 things:

The Cubs signed Prior like 2 weeks ago.
Tampa has had like 15yrs of top 5 picks to build their franchise with.

btrain929
11-27-2008, 07:13 PM
2 things:

The Cubs signed Prior like 2 weeks ago.
Tampa has had like 15yrs of top 5 picks to build their franchise with.

Ummm......what?

CashMan
11-27-2008, 07:18 PM
Ummm......what?


Did they not sign him to a minor league deal?

btrain929
11-27-2008, 07:19 PM
Did they not sign him to a minor league deal?

There would have been a 3-thread-long response in What's the Score if there was, making fun of it.

I'm 99.9% sure he's still a free agent.

CashMan
11-27-2008, 07:21 PM
There would have been a 3-thread-long response in What's the Score if there was, making fun of it.

I'm 99.9% sure he's still a free agent.

I think you are right, I guess I lost my mind. I apologize.

Craig Grebeck
11-27-2008, 08:51 PM
2 things:

The Cubs signed Prior like 2 weeks ago.
Tampa has had like 15yrs of top 5 picks to build their franchise with.
When did the Cubs sign Prior?

Lillian
11-27-2008, 09:08 PM
You were worried about a recession in 2006 and now you're worried about a depression in 2008?

I see a trend here, too, but not the same one you do.

No, I'm afraid you missed my point. I have been anticipating a deflationary depression for several years. My expectation hasn't changed, and the evidence is mounting every day that such a scenario is coming to fruition.

However, to get back to baseball, so what do you think K.W. should do, in view of such a circumstance?

Brian26
11-27-2008, 09:38 PM
You were worried about a recession in 2006 and now you're worried about a depression in 2008?

I see a trend here, too, but not the same one you do.

If you go back and read Lillian's post from November 2006, she was clearly talking about a catastrophic decline in the economy, back when very few people had any idea that was going to happen.

That post is eerily prophetic.

Jurr
11-27-2008, 10:02 PM
If you go back and read Lillian's post from November 2006, she was clearly talking about a catastrophic decline in the economy, back when very few people had any idea that was going to happen.

That post is eerily prophetic.
Yeah, when you see the stock market double in value in a couple of years, something's not right.

oldcomiskey
11-28-2008, 06:34 AM
2 things:

The Cubs signed Prior like 2 weeks ago.
Tampa has had like 15yrs of top 5 picks to build their franchise with.

it doesnt matter how many years they had to sin anybody, bottom line is they kicked our butts. They are more talented than we are and it showed. Now we have to get younger and find some speed somewhere or itll be another disppointment in 09

russ99
11-29-2008, 09:39 AM
I agree. From the surfcace this will piss off many Sox fans being that they made good revenue last season and have a very strong season base turning over this coming season. In addition to increasing the ticket prices. But I think the corporate revenue from sponsorship will be going down big time.


And as you said, this is Chicago not Cincy or Cle. I don't here too many other big market teams crying poor. It's the opposite. ANA is targeting the best players in the market right now, the economy in Southern California sucks right now as much as anywhere else with so many banks and lenders closing doors in the Irvine area.


But if we turn the roster over with youth and we contiune to be a contender, then so what. But spending money always increases your chances to be a contender rather than waiting to catch lightning in a bottle (unless you have a farm system and ballpark like Min).

I don't really care if the Sox cut the payroll, as long as Kenny gets players who can play 3B, 2B/SS and CF at a full-time major league level. That would equal a continued level as contender. Getz/Nix, Fields/Betemit/Viciedo and Anderson/Wise just don't cut the mustard. Maybe for the Pirates or Royals it would, but not the large-market White Sox. So I'd expect continued movement from Kenny to improve at least 2 of those areas before we break camp.

oeo
11-29-2008, 12:29 PM
I have no issues with working in some kids, you have to do that sooner or later. But don't start hinting that there may be four kids or so in the starting lineup and then have the gonads to say you are "contending."

In this division? Sure they would, depending on who those kids are.

Who sticks out in this division? The Tigers are a mess, the Royals always are, the Twins are a young team, and you certainly never know what kind of year the Indians will have.

If Kenny can get some good young players for guys like Vazquez, Dye, and Jenks, then he should do it. Now is a better time than ever with where the division stands.

Vestigio
11-29-2008, 01:45 PM
I don't really care if the Sox cut the payroll, as long as Kenny gets players who can play 3B, 2B/SS and CF at a full-time major league level. That would equal a continued level as contender. Getz/Nix, Fields/Betemit/Viciedo and Anderson/Wise just don't cut the mustard. Maybe for the Pirates or Royals it would, but not the large-market White Sox. So I'd expect continued movement from Kenny to improve at least 2 of those areas before we break camp.

I completely agree. We would just be setting up ourselves for failure in '09 if we had those guys in the everyday lineup. People always say we have to let these kids play in order to see if they can cut it in the bigs, which I would agree, just not all at once. Like you said, we're a large market team, who recently won the divison. Given that every team in AL central has some kind of weakness, it would be foolish for KW to sit on his hands with the players he currently has.

Lip Man 1
11-30-2008, 02:29 PM
OEO:

If you are satisfying with contending in the division, you are probably right....getting past the first round of the playoffs and (or) actually contending to win another World Series is a totally completely different animal isn't it?

Lip

munchman33
11-30-2008, 03:58 PM
Major League Baseball is one highly-specialized piece of the entertainment industry. By definition the entertainment industry is a luxury and impacted relatively more by both economic growth and recession (compared to staples like food and oil).

After the 2008 season (when the Sox surprised lots of people and their biggest rivals for the city's entertainment $ went bust) now has the Sox expecting to expand their season ticket base... and we're hearing stories here about season ticketholders coming to grips with the scarcity of the commodity they seek: Better seats.

I'm betting MLB makes it through this recession far better than most other businesses, including other entertainment industry enterprises.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/fieldofdreamsmann.JPG
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again. Ohhhhhhhh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come.