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brumski
11-22-2008, 11:49 AM
I dont think this guy is going anywhere, but if given the opportunity, pounce... Here's your future 1B and 3 hitter...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/specials/spring_training/2008/03/13/villa.martinez/

Domeshot17
11-22-2008, 11:58 AM
(1) He is an OF

(2) Why not just post this in the mets thread with the bogus rumors that have nothing to back them. Don't see why this warrents its own thread.

soxfan43
11-22-2008, 12:08 PM
(1) He is an OF

(2) Why not just post this in the mets thread with the bogus rumors that have nothing to back them. Don't see why this warrents its own thread.

I'm guessing because Levine's been tossing his name around again all morning.

DumpJerry
11-22-2008, 12:16 PM
Is the Mets' Player Develpoment guy Tony Bernazard our old Second Base guy?

yazz32
11-22-2008, 12:25 PM
Levine was tossing both Jenks and Vazquez for Martinez.
I have a bad feeling about that.

soxfan43
11-22-2008, 12:38 PM
Levine was tossing both Jenks and Vazquez for Martinez.
I have a bad feeling about that.

Well it certainly wouldn't be those 2 for Martinez straigh up. Levine also tossed out Pelfrey's name as well.

champagne030
11-22-2008, 12:42 PM
Is the Mets' Player Develpoment guy Tony Bernazard our old Second Base guy?

Yes.

brumski
11-22-2008, 01:35 PM
This a chat board based on trade rumors. If you're not for the Hot Stove, then tune back in come March... The word on Martinez is that he is young and athletic enough to play CF currently, but that he will likely settle down as a 1B eventually. And, a very good one at that. He is the best average and power hitting prospect in a very loaded Mets system. If we can get Martinez and Pelfrey, I am 100% for this deal. I love Bobby, but it's time to get younger and this presents an opportunity to build upon the very solid nucleus that we are putting together. As for Javy, we can find someone else to work those 5 quality innings a week...

2906
11-22-2008, 01:41 PM
Well it certainly wouldn't be those 2 for Martinez straigh up. Levine also tossed out Pelfrey's name as well.

Just for the sake of discussion, Pelfrey is a Boras client.

guillen4life13
11-22-2008, 01:50 PM
I have a hard time seeing the Mets giving Pelfrey and Martinez for Vazquez and Jenks. Martinez is considered the Mets' best organization prospect, and Pelfrey is a young (25 next year) sinkerball pitcher who last year pitched 194 innings with a 3.70 ERA. Both would be under organizational control for a while if acquired.

I think the Mets would ask for more, personally but if the opportunity arose, then just based on value I would have to jump on it. Vazquez is an aging workhorse and Jenks is a relatively young established closer, but both of them are going to be due some major raises soon and I think closer is easily replaceable.

btrain929
11-22-2008, 03:53 PM
This a chat board based on trade rumors. If you're not for the Hot Stove, then tune back in come March... The word on Martinez is that he is young and athletic enough to play CF currently, but that he will likely settle down as a 1B eventually. And, a very good one at that. He is the best average and power hitting prospect in a very loaded Mets system. If we can get Martinez and Pelfrey, I am 100% for this deal. I love Bobby, but it's time to get younger and this presents an opportunity to build upon the very solid nucleus that we are putting together. As for Javy, we can find someone else to work those 5 quality innings a week...

Bold 1: Where have you seen/heard that? Only thing we've heard is CF, maybe a corner OF.
Bold 2: He is not the best average nor the best power hitting prospect in the Mets system. I know he's young, bla bla bla, but he's had a very mediocre minor league career thus far.

oeo
11-22-2008, 04:20 PM
I know he's young, bla bla bla, but he's had a very mediocre minor league career thus far.

Yep, those 19-year-olds at AA are supposed to be hitting .400.

brumski
11-22-2008, 04:30 PM
Bold 1: Where have you seen/heard that? Only thing we've heard is CF, maybe a corner OF.
Bold 2: He is not the best average nor the best power hitting prospect in the Mets system. I know he's young, bla bla bla, but he's had a very mediocre minor league career thus far.

Glad you asked. Here is a good place to start...
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2008/265152.html

But, you can ask the people who know what they think, and they'll tell you he's a corner OF or a 1B in the future. NOT a major league CF. The thought is that he would be a very talented 1B, and above average RF, and a slightly above average LF...

btrain929
11-22-2008, 04:32 PM
Yep, those 19-year-olds at AA are supposed to be hitting .400.

Man this guy really gives you a hard on, doesn't he? NOW you're going to argue with me that this guy HASN'T put up mediocre numbers so far in his minor league career? Jesus....

oeo
11-22-2008, 04:34 PM
Man this guy really gives you a hard on, doesn't he? NOW you're going to argue with me that this guy HASN'T put up mediocre numbers so far in his minor league career? Jesus....

No, you're just a complete joke.

'Arguing' with you goes nowhere. You start going off in each and every direction, that it's hard to tell what your argument really is.

btrain929
11-22-2008, 04:42 PM
No, you're just a complete joke.

'Arguing' with you goes nowhere. You start going off in each and every direction, that it's hard to tell what your argument really is.

Travis Snyder, Jason Heyward, and Austin Jackson aren't using their ages as excuses, and they've been raking since the age of 17-18.

Craig Grebeck
11-22-2008, 04:49 PM
Travis Snyder, Jason Heyward, and Austin Jackson aren't using their ages as excuses, and they've been raking since the age of 17-18.
Ah, yes. Austin Jackson "raked" in AA this season -- which is why he posted virtually the same OPS as Martinez at the same level. Difference being, Martinez was 2 years younger.

btrain929
11-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Ah, yes. Austin Jackson "raked" in AA this season -- which is why he posted virtually the same OPS as Martinez at the same level. Difference being, Martinez was 2 years younger.

Yeah let's find the 1 stat where it's close....

Austin Jackson doesn't "project" to be a 3 hitter in the lineup like Martinez does, so OPS comparisons doesn't carry the same weight. Jackson is a speedster with some pop with a career line of .284/.356 and averages 25 SB's a year.

Bottom line is these guys were all hyped up, and most of them are living up to the hype at similar ages. Martinez isn't.

sircaffey1
11-22-2008, 06:24 PM
Martinez has had a few injuries. He had reoccurring hamstring injuries last year. He's also had hand/wrist injuries.

Craig Grebeck
11-23-2008, 09:12 PM
Yeah let's find the 1 stat where it's close....

Austin Jackson doesn't "project" to be a 3 hitter in the lineup like Martinez does, so OPS comparisons doesn't carry the same weight. Jackson is a speedster with some pop with a career line of .284/.356 and averages 25 SB's a year.

Bottom line is these guys were all hyped up, and most of them are living up to the hype at similar ages. Martinez isn't.
Martinez is considerably younger than all of these guys. Also, Snider and Heyward are top 10 prospects, if Martinez isn't living up to their hype, it's probably because he's a top 25-40 guy, not a top 10. Jackson, on the other hand, will be lucky to crack the top 50.

btrain929
11-23-2008, 09:58 PM
Martinez is considerably younger than all of these guys. Also, Snider and Heyward are top 10 prospects, if Martinez isn't living up to their hype, it's probably because he's a top 25-40 guy, not a top 10. Jackson, on the other hand, will be lucky to crack the top 50.

If we get him somehow, of course I'm going to root him on and hope he lives up to all the hype and potential. I guess I have higher expectations for players who have been talked up so much. In my eyes, so far he's underachieved and has had problems staying healthy. Hard to get TOO excited about that...

oeo
11-24-2008, 01:39 AM
If we get him somehow, of course I'm going to root him on and hope he lives up to all the hype and potential. I guess I have higher expectations for players who have been talked up so much. In my eyes, so far he's underachieved and has had problems staying healthy. Hard to get TOO excited about that...

In my mind, he just finished up a season at AA as a 19-year-old, and to say he's underachieved is utterly ridiculous. Damn, what the hell do you expect? This guy should be a major leaguer by the age of 21...that's nothing to be excited about?

btrain929
11-24-2008, 04:40 AM
In my mind, he just finished up a season at AA as a 19-year-old, and to say he's underachieved is utterly ridiculous. Damn, what the hell do you expect? This guy should be a major leaguer by the age of 21...that's nothing to be excited about?

From a highly-touted prospect? I don't know, maybe to do at least ONE thing really well? Take a lot of walks, hit homers, steal bases, play top-notch D at a premium position, something. Right now he just looks mediocre at a lot of things with no off-the-chart strengths. And if it's true that he isn't viewed as a CF'er anymore and he'll end up in a corner OF spot, his lack of power becomes even more of a problem. What good is it for him to make it to the bigs by 21 if he hasn't even accomplished much or mastered anything on the minor league level?

I personally put a little bit of the blame on the Mets organization. Why would they promote an 18 year old to AA when he finished up the previous year in high A+ ball batting .193/.254? Since he's so young, let him take his time and dominate every level until moving on. Hopefully they don't start him next year in AAA after another mediocre showing in AA this past year.

But we're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this topic, and that's fine. I already tried to drop it by saying if he ends up with us I hope he flourishes and does well, and that I just have higher expectations for a player we've been hearing about as a 5-tool phenom. But if you wanna keep up with your statements like what I'm saying is "utterly ridiculous" or "what the hell do I expect" then we can keep going.